I would also like to express my thanks to Barry for the free comic book day comics. Very much appreciated, shipped fast, and is great to deal with. Thanks so
much!!!
I don't contribute much to DCML.
But I enjoy it every day. I would just like to publicly thank Barry (RosaBarksFan at aol.com) for getting me 2 copies (one for me and one for a friend) of Maharajah Donald, since I had a broken foot and was unable to get out for
free Comic Book Day. He made his offer on DCML which shows his unselfish interest in our hobby, and how much he was looking out for others who also missed the opportunity.I think they did a great job on it, and hear it's very hard to get now.
Thanks again,
Jeff
Original Message from DCML Digest, Vol 3, Issue 5
> Overall, I'd say this book is worth the $5 Gemstone is requesting to
receive a copy directly. After all, I'm sure it will be hard to find...
Like I said before, You can get a free copy from me for the cost of
shipping.I will also send extra copies to groups.
Email me directly:
UNDBKB at aol.com
or
ROSABARKSFAN at aol.com
Barry.
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Author
Topic: 200305
(658 messages)
Wil
Maharajah Donald Thanks to Barry
Message 436 -
2003-05-22 at 03:44:32
Xephyr
Chinese "rubble" language
Message 437 -
2003-05-22 at 05:34:02
Despite the opinions of some (one?), I think that it is quite important to
be as inclusive as possible with this list. I know there are Chinese and
Japanese Disney fans, but there is indeed a common language barrier which
can be somewhat overcome by the Internet.
As for my computer and its (in)ability to display Chinese characters, it is
quite strange that it is indeed set up to communicate, for business
purposes, in both Chinese and English, but not necessarily over the
internet. I cannot change the settings (as this is not my personal
computer), and my default browser is Internet Explorer, thus the Chinese
characters are lost to me once I transmit them via the internet. Because I
am here in China and have no computer during my off-hours, I currently use
http://www.mail2web.com/ to recieve and send e-mail, and I read all DCML
message directly from the Archives at http://stp.ling.uu.se/pipermail/dcml/
where the Chinese characters are not properly displayed for me. These are
not issues I can currently overcome due to my circumstances.
BTW, AFAIK, there are currently NO Japanese references in the Language
database for the INDUCKS.
Richard Bellacera
--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .
be as inclusive as possible with this list. I know there are Chinese and
Japanese Disney fans, but there is indeed a common language barrier which
can be somewhat overcome by the Internet.
As for my computer and its (in)ability to display Chinese characters, it is
quite strange that it is indeed set up to communicate, for business
purposes, in both Chinese and English, but not necessarily over the
internet. I cannot change the settings (as this is not my personal
computer), and my default browser is Internet Explorer, thus the Chinese
characters are lost to me once I transmit them via the internet. Because I
am here in China and have no computer during my off-hours, I currently use
http://www.mail2web.com/ to recieve and send e-mail, and I read all DCML
message directly from the Archives at http://stp.ling.uu.se/pipermail/dcml/
where the Chinese characters are not properly displayed for me. These are
not issues I can currently overcome due to my circumstances.
BTW, AFAIK, there are currently NO Japanese references in the Language
database for the INDUCKS.
Richard Bellacera
--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .
Gunnarsson, Joakim SE - HMJ
Swedes and character names in strange languages
Message 438 -
2003-05-22 at 10:25:43
Sigvald wrote:
> OK, maybe kids in Sweden and Finland do learn to read strange alphabets,
> signs, hireglyps, etc. Norwegian kids do not - to most Norwegian
> non-European alphabets/signs thus look like rubble.
>
As a kid getting that book I thought it was cool "reading" those
mysterious scribbles of letters knowing
they were ment to mean "Mickey Mouse" in a foreign language.
So, even if you don't understand it, you don't have to be against
it. That's my motto in this case.
/Joakim Gunnarsson.
> OK, maybe kids in Sweden and Finland do learn to read strange alphabets,
> signs, hireglyps, etc. Norwegian kids do not - to most Norwegian
> non-European alphabets/signs thus look like rubble.
>
As a kid getting that book I thought it was cool "reading" those
mysterious scribbles of letters knowing
they were ment to mean "Mickey Mouse" in a foreign language.
So, even if you don't understand it, you don't have to be against
it. That's my motto in this case.
/Joakim Gunnarsson.
Lars Jensen
(OT) 17th of May/June 2005 ... er ... 1905
Message 439 -
2003-05-22 at 13:12:27
Sigvald wrote:
>>> Oh, yes! I bet they will love to see Scrooge
>>> meeting Kaiser Wilhelm in Berlin or elsewhere
>>> in 1905.
>>
>> Can't speak for the average German, but *I*
>> couldn't care less. Who's next? Adolf Hitler?
>> Walter Ulbricht?
>
> Well unlike Wilhelm II (he was a royalty), Adolf and Walter was
> obviously willains.
Der Kaiser wasn't a villain?! Depends on who you're asking, I suppose.
And the implication of your remark - that royalty by definition can't be
villains - is interesting. It puts a whole new spin on the Emperor
Ming-Flash Gordon feud.
Lars
>>> Oh, yes! I bet they will love to see Scrooge
>>> meeting Kaiser Wilhelm in Berlin or elsewhere
>>> in 1905.
>>
>> Can't speak for the average German, but *I*
>> couldn't care less. Who's next? Adolf Hitler?
>> Walter Ulbricht?
>
> Well unlike Wilhelm II (he was a royalty), Adolf and Walter was
> obviously willains.
Der Kaiser wasn't a villain?! Depends on who you're asking, I suppose.
And the implication of your remark - that royalty by definition can't be
villains - is interesting. It puts a whole new spin on the Emperor
Ming-Flash Gordon feud.
Lars
Olaf Solstrand
A very off-topic mail about Chinese and Swedish
Message 440 -
2003-05-22 at 13:52:49
DEAR Sigvald...
1. You're complaining that a Norwegian/Italian book published in Norway did
have character translations in Greek and Arab, and not in Swedish and
Finnish. My guess is that the Swedish and Finnish redactions had nothing to
do with that at all, and that it is 100% WRONG blaming Swedes and Finns for
this.
2. Another guess of mine - this list was written by Italians, and the
Norwegian names was added just so that we also could enjoy it.
3. You are complaining about the contents of ONE specific book. I know for
sure that other publications had these names in the Scandinavian languages.
4. You wrote:
> Well let me just tell all Swedes this: for Norwegian and I bet
> also Danish readers of any age, Asian "rubble" is definitely *not*
> as interesting as Swedish names!
You can't say that - you haven't checked. You're saying that this is not as
interesting as the Swedish names ON BEHALF OF THE ENTIRE NORWEGIAN
POPULATION. You're saying things you have no foundation to say. I'm a
Norwegian, and you sure have not asked ME what I think of this.How many
other Norwegians have you asked?
5. I must confess - I liked these foreign languages. As someone said,
distant languages are exotic. OK, I was not able to pronounce Mickey in
Japanese - but I sure had a good time practicing writing it! :-) (and at
that point the Swedish was no challenge at all... it was just an
M-U-S-S-E-space-P-I-G-G!)
6. You wrote to Christina:
> Sorry, I didn't intend to be offensive.
Really?? In your mail, you said that Swedes "should clean their own house
before taking care of other people's business" because of something a
Norwegian or Italian redaction did 25 years ago. You called languages like
Japanese and Arabic "rubble" that Norwegians can't understand "a shit out
of". Sigvald, if your mail was ANYTHING, it was offensive!
7. You ended your letter with
> Anyway, now in the internet-age we Norwegians, Danes and everybody
> else can easily find any Swedish Disney Character name we are looking
> for, so you Swedes can feel free to concentrate on Chinese or whatever
> Disney Character names you like.
...so why did you write this at all?
Olaf the Blue
1. You're complaining that a Norwegian/Italian book published in Norway did
have character translations in Greek and Arab, and not in Swedish and
Finnish. My guess is that the Swedish and Finnish redactions had nothing to
do with that at all, and that it is 100% WRONG blaming Swedes and Finns for
this.
2. Another guess of mine - this list was written by Italians, and the
Norwegian names was added just so that we also could enjoy it.
3. You are complaining about the contents of ONE specific book. I know for
sure that other publications had these names in the Scandinavian languages.
4. You wrote:
> Well let me just tell all Swedes this: for Norwegian and I bet
> also Danish readers of any age, Asian "rubble" is definitely *not*
> as interesting as Swedish names!
You can't say that - you haven't checked. You're saying that this is not as
interesting as the Swedish names ON BEHALF OF THE ENTIRE NORWEGIAN
POPULATION. You're saying things you have no foundation to say. I'm a
Norwegian, and you sure have not asked ME what I think of this.How many
other Norwegians have you asked?
5. I must confess - I liked these foreign languages. As someone said,
distant languages are exotic. OK, I was not able to pronounce Mickey in
Japanese - but I sure had a good time practicing writing it! :-) (and at
that point the Swedish was no challenge at all... it was just an
M-U-S-S-E-space-P-I-G-G!)
6. You wrote to Christina:
> Sorry, I didn't intend to be offensive.
Really?? In your mail, you said that Swedes "should clean their own house
before taking care of other people's business" because of something a
Norwegian or Italian redaction did 25 years ago. You called languages like
Japanese and Arabic "rubble" that Norwegians can't understand "a shit out
of". Sigvald, if your mail was ANYTHING, it was offensive!
7. You ended your letter with
> Anyway, now in the internet-age we Norwegians, Danes and everybody
> else can easily find any Swedish Disney Character name we are looking
> for, so you Swedes can feel free to concentrate on Chinese or whatever
> Disney Character names you like.
...so why did you write this at all?
Olaf the Blue
Jørgen Andreas Bangor
Chinese "rubble" language
Message 441 -
2003-05-22 at 14:10:32
Richard:
| Despite the opinions of some (one?), I think that it is quite important to
| be as inclusive as possible with this list. I know there are Chinese and
| Japanese Disney fans, but there is indeed a common language barrier which
| can be somewhat overcome by the Internet.
You can safely assume this is the opinion of only one Norwegian. As
you always can, when Sigvald speaks on behalf of all of us.
SIGVALD, could you please stop trying to embarass all of us all the
time? Start speaking for yourself, alone.
And isn't it rather curious to blame the Swedes for something printed
in a Norwegian book...?
J?rgen - who was rather interested in Egyptian and Phoenician rubble
when he first read "Jeg Donald Duck" at the age of five.
| Despite the opinions of some (one?), I think that it is quite important to
| be as inclusive as possible with this list. I know there are Chinese and
| Japanese Disney fans, but there is indeed a common language barrier which
| can be somewhat overcome by the Internet.
You can safely assume this is the opinion of only one Norwegian. As
you always can, when Sigvald speaks on behalf of all of us.
SIGVALD, could you please stop trying to embarass all of us all the
time? Start speaking for yourself, alone.
And isn't it rather curious to blame the Swedes for something printed
in a Norwegian book...?
J?rgen - who was rather interested in Egyptian and Phoenician rubble
when he first read "Jeg Donald Duck" at the age of five.
Sigvald Grøsfjeld Jr.
Swedes and character names in strange languages
Message 442 -
2003-05-23 at 00:13:52
<Joakim.Gunnarsson at egmont.se> wrote:
>> As a kid getting that book I thought it was
>> cool "reading" those mysterious scribbles of
>> letters knowing they were ment to mean
>> "Mickey Mouse" in a foreign language. So, even
>> if you don't understand it, you don't have to
>> be against it. That's my motto in this case.
I am *not* against lists of Disney characters' names written with alphabets
or signs other than the latin alphabet - I am only against giving such
information prioriy in front of IMO more realated languages.
Sigvald :-)
>> As a kid getting that book I thought it was
>> cool "reading" those mysterious scribbles of
>> letters knowing they were ment to mean
>> "Mickey Mouse" in a foreign language. So, even
>> if you don't understand it, you don't have to
>> be against it. That's my motto in this case.
I am *not* against lists of Disney characters' names written with alphabets
or signs other than the latin alphabet - I am only against giving such
information prioriy in front of IMO more realated languages.
Sigvald :-)
Lars Jensen
Scrooge's silk hat
Message 443 -
2003-05-23 at 00:32:36
Sigvald wrote:
> Anyway, as I am ready to learn more about how various creators are
> working I have a friendly question to our friends Lars Jensen and Rob
> Klein. If you come up with a story in where you will need to include
> an explanation like this about the origin of something - what would
> you do? And why?
Hmm... I haven't given it much thought, but looking at my stories, I
realize they take place either in the present or during a non-specific
time period. Which makes it pretty much impossible to tie them overtly
into Don Rosa's stories which happen in the 1950s.
Using Scrooge's hat as an example: If I in a story mention Scrooge
bought his hat in 1909, the implication (to me anyway) is that Scrooge
is 110+ years old - which I don't like. Assuming I desperately want to
somehow mention the age of the hat and equally desperately want to
please Rosaists, the way to do it would probably be to have Scrooge
mention he bought his hat some 45 years ago, without specifying which
year that was. This would make everybody happy. Well, most people
anyway...
Usually, though, I try not to put too many dates or origins into my
stories - especially when it comes to various iconic elements. We've
already seen the discusion on this list regarding whether the totempole
stories or Lo$ are "correct" when it comes to dating Scrooge's hat. Yes,
I could have, say, Scrooge mention in a story that he bought his cane 22
years ago at a flea market - but what if that contradicts somebody
else's "facts"? Not that it matters *too* much to me: If I come up with
an (in my opinion) great tale where I for story purposes have to mention
the cane's age and origin, I'll do it - but usually there's no reason to
bog anybody else (or myself) down with needless "facts" that may turn
out to be nothing more than annoying continuity somewhere down the line.
So usually I'll just keep things like the cane's or the hat's age and
origin to myself.
And, to be honest, I don't really feel a need to explain where something
already-established comes from or when it was bought. If others want to
explain the origin of Scrooge's hat, they should feel free, though.
If it's something I come up with myself, like, say, some pocket watch
Donald has inherited, then obviously I can establish all sorts of
things, especially if the watch only appears in one story. If I know
I'll use the watch in more than one story, I'll only put as many facts
into each story as I absolutely have to - so I later on will have some
wriggle room if I want to change my mind about something.
> Ole Reichstein Nielsen <oleroc at tdcspace.dk> wrote:
>
>> In all likelihood her frame of reference
>> is, instead of the Barks/Rosa canon, the
>> equally famous Italian story cycle of the
>> beheaded totem.
>
> Equally famous??? I sincerely doubt it! Why haven't Egmont then
> bothered to publish all episodes in the Donald Duck Pocket books?
Some Barks material has never been published in Denmark. Is this because
he was an unimportant creator? Or because the publishers have simply
never gotten around to publish those particular stories?
> I have *no* problems accepting your statements and opinions, but you
> should be aware that other and more pure Barksists in his group may
> see your statement as an offensive act against Barks' name and
> reputation.
Don't worry, I'm not offended.
Ole, you have my permission to carry on believing what you wish to
believe.
Lars
> Anyway, as I am ready to learn more about how various creators are
> working I have a friendly question to our friends Lars Jensen and Rob
> Klein. If you come up with a story in where you will need to include
> an explanation like this about the origin of something - what would
> you do? And why?
Hmm... I haven't given it much thought, but looking at my stories, I
realize they take place either in the present or during a non-specific
time period. Which makes it pretty much impossible to tie them overtly
into Don Rosa's stories which happen in the 1950s.
Using Scrooge's hat as an example: If I in a story mention Scrooge
bought his hat in 1909, the implication (to me anyway) is that Scrooge
is 110+ years old - which I don't like. Assuming I desperately want to
somehow mention the age of the hat and equally desperately want to
please Rosaists, the way to do it would probably be to have Scrooge
mention he bought his hat some 45 years ago, without specifying which
year that was. This would make everybody happy. Well, most people
anyway...
Usually, though, I try not to put too many dates or origins into my
stories - especially when it comes to various iconic elements. We've
already seen the discusion on this list regarding whether the totempole
stories or Lo$ are "correct" when it comes to dating Scrooge's hat. Yes,
I could have, say, Scrooge mention in a story that he bought his cane 22
years ago at a flea market - but what if that contradicts somebody
else's "facts"? Not that it matters *too* much to me: If I come up with
an (in my opinion) great tale where I for story purposes have to mention
the cane's age and origin, I'll do it - but usually there's no reason to
bog anybody else (or myself) down with needless "facts" that may turn
out to be nothing more than annoying continuity somewhere down the line.
So usually I'll just keep things like the cane's or the hat's age and
origin to myself.
And, to be honest, I don't really feel a need to explain where something
already-established comes from or when it was bought. If others want to
explain the origin of Scrooge's hat, they should feel free, though.
If it's something I come up with myself, like, say, some pocket watch
Donald has inherited, then obviously I can establish all sorts of
things, especially if the watch only appears in one story. If I know
I'll use the watch in more than one story, I'll only put as many facts
into each story as I absolutely have to - so I later on will have some
wriggle room if I want to change my mind about something.
> Ole Reichstein Nielsen <oleroc at tdcspace.dk> wrote:
>
>> In all likelihood her frame of reference
>> is, instead of the Barks/Rosa canon, the
>> equally famous Italian story cycle of the
>> beheaded totem.
>
> Equally famous??? I sincerely doubt it! Why haven't Egmont then
> bothered to publish all episodes in the Donald Duck Pocket books?
Some Barks material has never been published in Denmark. Is this because
he was an unimportant creator? Or because the publishers have simply
never gotten around to publish those particular stories?
> I have *no* problems accepting your statements and opinions, but you
> should be aware that other and more pure Barksists in his group may
> see your statement as an offensive act against Barks' name and
> reputation.
Don't worry, I'm not offended.
Ole, you have my permission to carry on believing what you wish to
believe.
Lars
Lars Jensen
Swedes and character names in strange languages
Message 444 -
2003-05-23 at 00:32:46
Sigvald wrote:
> "Jeg, Mikke Mus" (=Io Topolino) [...] contained a list of the names of
> several Disney Characters in various languages. In the Norwegian
> version of the book these languages are:
> Norwegian, English, French, German, Danish, Italian, Jugoslav(*),
> Greek, Japanese and Arabian.
> (*) An obvious insult against the readers intelligence as the correct
> would have been "Serbo-Croatian", just as we speak about "Dutch" not
> "Netherlandic" or "Hollandic" and about "Hebrew", not "Israelic".
Sigvald, sometimes I think you go around looking for reasons to be
insulted. As a historian, you must know that Yugoslavia in the 1970s was
part of the East Bloc and thus (by Western countries) hardly was
perceived to be a country in its own right. That the book even mentioned
the names in "Yugoslavian", rather than the language of some Western
country, is a small (positive) surprise in itself.
> Perhaps the people in the Swedish redaction by then (in the 1970s) was
> thinking like some Swedes in DCML of today - that some Asian "rubble"
> is as interesting as their own Swedish names. Well let me just tell
> all Swedes this: for Norwegian and I bet also Danish readers of any
> age, Asian "rubble" is definitely *not* as interesting as Swedish
> names!
You'd lose that bet.
I was very interested by Rich Bellacera's list of characters in the
"Disney Character names in Chinese" thread. Looking at it, I see such
favorites of mine as Fethry Duck and Madam Mim are mentioned - implying
(to me, at least) that stories featuring them are being printed in
China. That's *much* more interesting to me than what the name of, say,
Daisy Duck is in Sweden - I already know stories featuring her are being
used all over Scandinavia, so what information could I get out of
knowing her Swedish name?
Personally, I'm puzzled by why you would fault the Swedish editorial
group in the 1970s for something the *Norwegian* editorial group of that
time failed to do - namely include the Swedish names in the Norwegian
edition. Care to explain why?
Also, I'm puzzled by the line you draw from the Swedish 1970s editorial
group to today's Swedish members of the DCML, blaming the latter for the
former's (alleged) mistakes:
> much of this postings is ironically written by Swedes who IMO should
> clean their own house before taking care of other people's business.
As you probably know, the Barks story "Lost in the Andes!" (about the
square eggs) underwent a not-too-well-received second translation when
it was used in the Norwegian 1974 "Jeg, Donald Duck" book. Using your
own logic, I'm going to blame *you* for that fiasco. On behalf of
*serious* Donaldis everywhere I expect to get an apology from you
regarding that mess.
Oh, and calling languages you don't understand "rubble" is utter
nonsense. I don't understand Nepalese, for instance, and I'm still
pretty sure it makes sense if one knows the language!
> I won't claim there is a line from the 1970's Swedish and Finnish
> redaction to modern DCML'ers from the same countries,
And yet, you did.
> but other people here may say so now.
Who, for instance?
Lars
> "Jeg, Mikke Mus" (=Io Topolino) [...] contained a list of the names of
> several Disney Characters in various languages. In the Norwegian
> version of the book these languages are:
> Norwegian, English, French, German, Danish, Italian, Jugoslav(*),
> Greek, Japanese and Arabian.
> (*) An obvious insult against the readers intelligence as the correct
> would have been "Serbo-Croatian", just as we speak about "Dutch" not
> "Netherlandic" or "Hollandic" and about "Hebrew", not "Israelic".
Sigvald, sometimes I think you go around looking for reasons to be
insulted. As a historian, you must know that Yugoslavia in the 1970s was
part of the East Bloc and thus (by Western countries) hardly was
perceived to be a country in its own right. That the book even mentioned
the names in "Yugoslavian", rather than the language of some Western
country, is a small (positive) surprise in itself.
> Perhaps the people in the Swedish redaction by then (in the 1970s) was
> thinking like some Swedes in DCML of today - that some Asian "rubble"
> is as interesting as their own Swedish names. Well let me just tell
> all Swedes this: for Norwegian and I bet also Danish readers of any
> age, Asian "rubble" is definitely *not* as interesting as Swedish
> names!
You'd lose that bet.
I was very interested by Rich Bellacera's list of characters in the
"Disney Character names in Chinese" thread. Looking at it, I see such
favorites of mine as Fethry Duck and Madam Mim are mentioned - implying
(to me, at least) that stories featuring them are being printed in
China. That's *much* more interesting to me than what the name of, say,
Daisy Duck is in Sweden - I already know stories featuring her are being
used all over Scandinavia, so what information could I get out of
knowing her Swedish name?
Personally, I'm puzzled by why you would fault the Swedish editorial
group in the 1970s for something the *Norwegian* editorial group of that
time failed to do - namely include the Swedish names in the Norwegian
edition. Care to explain why?
Also, I'm puzzled by the line you draw from the Swedish 1970s editorial
group to today's Swedish members of the DCML, blaming the latter for the
former's (alleged) mistakes:
> much of this postings is ironically written by Swedes who IMO should
> clean their own house before taking care of other people's business.
As you probably know, the Barks story "Lost in the Andes!" (about the
square eggs) underwent a not-too-well-received second translation when
it was used in the Norwegian 1974 "Jeg, Donald Duck" book. Using your
own logic, I'm going to blame *you* for that fiasco. On behalf of
*serious* Donaldis everywhere I expect to get an apology from you
regarding that mess.
Oh, and calling languages you don't understand "rubble" is utter
nonsense. I don't understand Nepalese, for instance, and I'm still
pretty sure it makes sense if one knows the language!
> I won't claim there is a line from the 1970's Swedish and Finnish
> redaction to modern DCML'ers from the same countries,
And yet, you did.
> but other people here may say so now.
Who, for instance?
Lars
Stefan Persson
Chinese "rubble" language
Message 445 -
2003-05-23 at 00:39:20
Sigvald Gr?sfjeld jr. wrote:
> And now J?rgen does the same thing by claiming that I was the only one who
> was irritated by the missing Swedish and Finnish names in the 10 language
> list presented in the book "Jeg, Mikke Mus" in 1976!
He does not.
BTW, in the Swedish book the names in the Norwegian "rubble" language
have been replaced by names in Swedish.
> What we know for sure is that we DCMLers do *not* represent the average
> reader of Disney comics - I guess that we are what the average reader will
> call "nerds".
I would say that the average reader of a Disney magazine is a boy or
girl of 5 to 10 years of age who reads the issue once and then throws it
away; however, I doubt that such readers will think it is worth paying
such an expensive amount of money for enourmous books like "Jag, Musse
Pigg." The size of the book will probably also make it difficult for
such readers to hold the actual book in their hands.
For whom it may concern: Below is a list of the Japanese names in that
book and their Hepburn transcriptions. The transcriptions will probably
make it easier for most people to pronounce the names.
Inducks abbreviation ^ Name in Hepburn transcription ~~ Name in Japanese writing
MM ^ Mikkii Mausu ~~ ???????
MI ^ Minii Mausu ~~ ??????
GO ^ Guufii ~~ ?????
JC ^ Jiminii Kuriketto ~~ ?????????
DD ^ Donarudo Dakku ~~ ???????
PL ^ Puruuto ~~ ????
DA ^ Deejii Dakku ~~ ???????
US ^ Sukuruuji ojisan ~~ ?????????
BW ^ Waru Ookami ~~ ??????
CD ^ Chippu to deeru ~~ ???????
HDL ^ Hyuui to Duui to Rui ~~ ????????????
The Japanese characters might not display properly for all people.
Stefan
> And now J?rgen does the same thing by claiming that I was the only one who
> was irritated by the missing Swedish and Finnish names in the 10 language
> list presented in the book "Jeg, Mikke Mus" in 1976!
He does not.
BTW, in the Swedish book the names in the Norwegian "rubble" language
have been replaced by names in Swedish.
> What we know for sure is that we DCMLers do *not* represent the average
> reader of Disney comics - I guess that we are what the average reader will
> call "nerds".
I would say that the average reader of a Disney magazine is a boy or
girl of 5 to 10 years of age who reads the issue once and then throws it
away; however, I doubt that such readers will think it is worth paying
such an expensive amount of money for enourmous books like "Jag, Musse
Pigg." The size of the book will probably also make it difficult for
such readers to hold the actual book in their hands.
For whom it may concern: Below is a list of the Japanese names in that
book and their Hepburn transcriptions. The transcriptions will probably
make it easier for most people to pronounce the names.
Inducks abbreviation ^ Name in Hepburn transcription ~~ Name in Japanese writing
MM ^ Mikkii Mausu ~~ ???????
MI ^ Minii Mausu ~~ ??????
GO ^ Guufii ~~ ?????
JC ^ Jiminii Kuriketto ~~ ?????????
DD ^ Donarudo Dakku ~~ ???????
PL ^ Puruuto ~~ ????
DA ^ Deejii Dakku ~~ ???????
US ^ Sukuruuji ojisan ~~ ?????????
BW ^ Waru Ookami ~~ ??????
CD ^ Chippu to deeru ~~ ???????
HDL ^ Hyuui to Duui to Rui ~~ ????????????
The Japanese characters might not display properly for all people.
Stefan
Sigvald Grøsfjeld Jr.
A very off-topic mail about Chinese and Swedish
Message 446 -
2003-05-23 at 00:41:49
Olaf Solstrand <olaf at andebyonline.com> wrote:
> DEAR Sigvald...
>
> 1. You're complaining that a Norwegian/Italian
> book published in Norway did have character
> translations in Greek and Arab, and not in
> Swedish and Finnish.
Correct! To me Swedish and Finnish character translations would have been
much more meaningful languages by that time - and they still are.
> My guess is that the Swedish and Finnish
> redactions had nothing to do with that at all,
> and that it is 100% WRONG blaming Swedes and
> Finns for this.
Maybe so, but in this list they have been the ones showing most interests
for the Chinese stuff - they just accidentally triggered some two and a half
decade old irritation. I did however *not* intend to offend anyone by this -
I am very sorry if I did.
> 2. Another guess of mine - this list was
> written by Italians, and the Norwegian names
> was added just so that we also could enjoy it.
Sound plausible - but I guess that the Norwegian redaction was free to call
their Swedish and Finnish colleagues in order to get their names as well. So
your argument, even though it's good, is IMO no excuse for the Norwegian
redaction to not provide the Swedish and the Finnish names - the Danish
names were there remember!
> 3. You are complaining about the contents of
> ONE specific book. I know for sure that other
> publications had these names in the
> Scandinavian languages.
Publications like:
> 4. You wrote:
>> Well let me just tell all Swedes this: for
>> Norwegian and I bet also Danish readers of
>> any age, Asian "rubble" is definitely *not*
>> as interesting as Swedish names!
>
> You can't say that - you haven't checked.
I wrote "I bet that..." not "I know for sure that...", I can see some
difference there...
> 6. You wrote to Christina:
>> Sorry, I didn't intend to be offensive.
>
> Really?? In your mail, you said that Swedes
> "should clean their own house before taking
> care of other people's business"
Oh, please - that was just some kind of a stupid joke in order to get the
reader's attention.
I can see now that I shouldn't have included those lines in the start of my
posting. Sorry for that!
> You called languages like Japanese and Arabic
> "rubble" that Norwegians can't understand
> "a shit out of".
No Olaf, I didn't call those languages "rubble" that comment was only about
the alphabets/signs used to write/print those languages.
> 7. You ended your letter with
>> Anyway, now in the internet-age we Norwegians,
>> Danes and everybody else can easily find any
>> Swedish Disney Character name we are looking
>> for, so you Swedes can feel free to concentrate
>> on Chinese or whatever Disney Character names
>> you like.
>
>....so why did you write this at all?
I ended my posting that way to show that it was not intended to be
offensive.
Sigvald :-)
> DEAR Sigvald...
>
> 1. You're complaining that a Norwegian/Italian
> book published in Norway did have character
> translations in Greek and Arab, and not in
> Swedish and Finnish.
Correct! To me Swedish and Finnish character translations would have been
much more meaningful languages by that time - and they still are.
> My guess is that the Swedish and Finnish
> redactions had nothing to do with that at all,
> and that it is 100% WRONG blaming Swedes and
> Finns for this.
Maybe so, but in this list they have been the ones showing most interests
for the Chinese stuff - they just accidentally triggered some two and a half
decade old irritation. I did however *not* intend to offend anyone by this -
I am very sorry if I did.
> 2. Another guess of mine - this list was
> written by Italians, and the Norwegian names
> was added just so that we also could enjoy it.
Sound plausible - but I guess that the Norwegian redaction was free to call
their Swedish and Finnish colleagues in order to get their names as well. So
your argument, even though it's good, is IMO no excuse for the Norwegian
redaction to not provide the Swedish and the Finnish names - the Danish
names were there remember!
> 3. You are complaining about the contents of
> ONE specific book. I know for sure that other
> publications had these names in the
> Scandinavian languages.
Publications like:
> 4. You wrote:
>> Well let me just tell all Swedes this: for
>> Norwegian and I bet also Danish readers of
>> any age, Asian "rubble" is definitely *not*
>> as interesting as Swedish names!
>
> You can't say that - you haven't checked.
I wrote "I bet that..." not "I know for sure that...", I can see some
difference there...
> 6. You wrote to Christina:
>> Sorry, I didn't intend to be offensive.
>
> Really?? In your mail, you said that Swedes
> "should clean their own house before taking
> care of other people's business"
Oh, please - that was just some kind of a stupid joke in order to get the
reader's attention.
I can see now that I shouldn't have included those lines in the start of my
posting. Sorry for that!
> You called languages like Japanese and Arabic
> "rubble" that Norwegians can't understand
> "a shit out of".
No Olaf, I didn't call those languages "rubble" that comment was only about
the alphabets/signs used to write/print those languages.
> 7. You ended your letter with
>> Anyway, now in the internet-age we Norwegians,
>> Danes and everybody else can easily find any
>> Swedish Disney Character name we are looking
>> for, so you Swedes can feel free to concentrate
>> on Chinese or whatever Disney Character names
>> you like.
>
>....so why did you write this at all?
I ended my posting that way to show that it was not intended to be
offensive.
Sigvald :-)
Ole Reichstein Nielsen
Swedes and character names in strange languages
Message 447 -
2003-05-23 at 00:41:59
Sigvald:
>I am *not* against lists of Disney characters' names written with alphabets
>or signs other than the latin alphabet - I am only against giving such
>information prioriy in front of IMO more realated languages.
But if you read the text piece that goes along with the character name
list, you will - perhaps - realize the intentions of the list of
corresponding
names being quite the opposite, namely meant to illustrate the variety of
languages, and yet culture- and language-transcending way the Disney
characters speak to us. "I am a duck, and nothing human is foreign to me",
as Cicero almost once said.
The short text goes like this (in the 1978 American Abbeville edition):
<QUOTE> "WALT DISNEY AROUND THE WORLD
The strength of the Disney language - that is, the powerful vein of
subtle humor that runs through his characters, the immediacy and
warmth of their communication, their delightfully human persona-
lities - has been transformed into a universal language and today
his characters are known, esteemed, and admired around the
world. They are present in twenty-four nations and speak seven-
teen different languages. Here, are the names of some of Walt's
chief characters in nine languages." <endQUOTE>
-- Ole
>I am *not* against lists of Disney characters' names written with alphabets
>or signs other than the latin alphabet - I am only against giving such
>information prioriy in front of IMO more realated languages.
But if you read the text piece that goes along with the character name
list, you will - perhaps - realize the intentions of the list of
corresponding
names being quite the opposite, namely meant to illustrate the variety of
languages, and yet culture- and language-transcending way the Disney
characters speak to us. "I am a duck, and nothing human is foreign to me",
as Cicero almost once said.
The short text goes like this (in the 1978 American Abbeville edition):
<QUOTE> "WALT DISNEY AROUND THE WORLD
The strength of the Disney language - that is, the powerful vein of
subtle humor that runs through his characters, the immediacy and
warmth of their communication, their delightfully human persona-
lities - has been transformed into a universal language and today
his characters are known, esteemed, and admired around the
world. They are present in twenty-four nations and speak seven-
teen different languages. Here, are the names of some of Walt's
chief characters in nine languages." <endQUOTE>
-- Ole
Sigvald Grøsfjeld Jr.
Chinese "rubble" language
Message 448 -
2003-05-23 at 01:14:08
<jorgenb at fimm.ifi.uio.no> wrote:
<jorgenb at fimm.ifi.uio.no> wrote:
> Despite the opinions of some (one?), I think
> that it is quite important to be as inclusive
> as possible with this list.
First: I was *not* complaining about including Chinese names in the modern
Internet-based Disney Character's Names data bases - I was *only*
complaining about the missing Swedish and Finnish names in the 10 language
list presented in the book "Jeg, Mikke Mus" in 1976!
The resent debate here on DCML about these Chinese names just happened to
trigger some two and a half decades old irritation of mine.
> You can safely assume this is the opinion of
> only one Norwegian. As you always can, when
> Sigvald speaks on behalf of all of us.
And now J?rgen does the same thing by claiming that I was the only one who
was irritated by the missing Swedish and Finnish names in the 10 language
list presented in the book "Jeg, Mikke Mus" in 1976!
OK, some people here has (in order to present a correct opinion?) stated
that they had an other opinion about this than me in the 1970's. So what?
What we know for sure is that we DCMLers do *not* represent the average
reader of Disney comics - I guess that we are what the average reader will
call "nerds".
There are IMO thus no reason to claim that my view is less representative
for the average Norwegian reader than is the "correct view" about this.
> SIGVALD, could you please stop trying to
> embarrass all of us all the time? Start
> speaking for yourself, alone.
It's *not* my problem if my opinions are embarrassing for other Norwegians
here. I guess I have the same rights to present my own opinions and be taken
seriously as you and this Klaus <PLONK!> Harms.
Anyway I am very sorry for way I presented the posting about "Swedes and
Character names" ? I guess that I must have been to much influenced by
Svinesen and other mothern way of arguing and presenting ones views.
Sigvald :-)
<jorgenb at fimm.ifi.uio.no> wrote:
> Despite the opinions of some (one?), I think
> that it is quite important to be as inclusive
> as possible with this list.
First: I was *not* complaining about including Chinese names in the modern
Internet-based Disney Character's Names data bases - I was *only*
complaining about the missing Swedish and Finnish names in the 10 language
list presented in the book "Jeg, Mikke Mus" in 1976!
The resent debate here on DCML about these Chinese names just happened to
trigger some two and a half decades old irritation of mine.
> You can safely assume this is the opinion of
> only one Norwegian. As you always can, when
> Sigvald speaks on behalf of all of us.
And now J?rgen does the same thing by claiming that I was the only one who
was irritated by the missing Swedish and Finnish names in the 10 language
list presented in the book "Jeg, Mikke Mus" in 1976!
OK, some people here has (in order to present a correct opinion?) stated
that they had an other opinion about this than me in the 1970's. So what?
What we know for sure is that we DCMLers do *not* represent the average
reader of Disney comics - I guess that we are what the average reader will
call "nerds".
There are IMO thus no reason to claim that my view is less representative
for the average Norwegian reader than is the "correct view" about this.
> SIGVALD, could you please stop trying to
> embarrass all of us all the time? Start
> speaking for yourself, alone.
It's *not* my problem if my opinions are embarrassing for other Norwegians
here. I guess I have the same rights to present my own opinions and be taken
seriously as you and this Klaus <PLONK!> Harms.
Anyway I am very sorry for way I presented the posting about "Swedes and
Character names" ? I guess that I must have been to much influenced by
Svinesen and other mothern way of arguing and presenting ones views.
Sigvald :-)
Sigvald Grøsfjeld Jr.
Stefan's "rubble"
Message 449 -
2003-05-23 at 02:44:41
Stefan persson wrote:
> BTW, in the Swedish book the names in the
> Norwegian "rubble" language have been replaced
> by names in Swedish.
Why can't read what I writes before making jokes out of it? What I called
"rubble" was the arab alphabet and Asian signs - *not* any spoken language.
So what you are doing here can be seen as insulting all Norwegians here.
Anyway, what is the Danish version like?
Sigvald :-)
> BTW, in the Swedish book the names in the
> Norwegian "rubble" language have been replaced
> by names in Swedish.
Why can't read what I writes before making jokes out of it? What I called
"rubble" was the arab alphabet and Asian signs - *not* any spoken language.
So what you are doing here can be seen as insulting all Norwegians here.
Anyway, what is the Danish version like?
Sigvald :-)
Sigvald Grøsfjeld Jr.
Swedes and character names in strange languages
Message 450 -
2003-05-23 at 03:11:34
Lars Jensen <lpj at forfatter.dk> wrote:
> Sigvald, sometimes I think you go around
> looking for reasons to be insulted.
Or let's say chanses of getting rid of some old irritation.
> As a historian, you must know that Yugoslavia
> in the 1970s was part of the East Bloc...
It was a neutral country, and thus not a part of the Warzaw-pact. It was
however as you correctly a communist country and thus at some will say "the
wrong side of the iron curtain".
> and thus (by Western countries) hardly was
> perceived to be a country in its own right.
> That the book even mentioned the names in
> "Yugoslavian", rather than the language of
> some Western country, is a small (positive)
> surprise in itself.
Or a proof that the Italian redaction was more aware of their neighbouring
countries than Scandinavia.
>> Well let me just tell all Swedes this: for
>> Norwegian and I bet also Danish readers of
>> any age, Asian "rubble" is definitely *not*
>> as interesting as Swedish names!
>
> You'd lose that bet.
Why? Have you asked every Dane or every Norwegian about that???
> I was very interested by Rich Bellacera's list
> of characters in the "Disney Character names
> in Chinese" thread. Looking at it, I see such
> favorites of mine as Fethry Duck and Madam Mim
> are mentioned - implying (to me, at least) that
> stories featuring them are being printed in
> China.
OK, and the lack of a Portuguese or was is a "Spanish" name for Drakeborough
tells me that some readctions haven't published some of Don Rosa's stories
yet. But this is not why I look in such list of Character's names anyway.
> That's *much* more interesting to me than what
> the name of, say, Daisy Duck is in Sweden - I
> already know stories featuring her are being
> used all over Scandinavia, so what information
> could I get out of knowing her Swedish name?
You seem to forget that I was 10-12 years old at the time I first got "Jeg,
Mikke Mus", by then I was very interested to know the Swedish names, but I
didn't have the internet to help me...
> Personally, I'm puzzled by why you would fault
> the Swedish editorial group in the 1970s for
> something the *Norwegian* editorial group of
> that time failed to do - namely include the
> Swedish names in the Norwegian edition. Care
> to explain why?
Just that the interest, shown by people with Swedish names, for Rick's topic
triggered a two and a half decade old irritation of mine.
> Also, I'm puzzled by the line you draw from
> the Swedish 1970s editorial group to today's
> Swedish members of the DCML, blaming the
> latter for the former's (alleged) mistakes:
That was not for offending andybody - it was (I guess) just for justifying
my complaints of the list in a book printed more than 25 years ago.
> As you probably know, the Barks story
> "Lost in the Andes!" (about the square eggs)
> underwent a not-too-well-received second
> translation when it was used in the Norwegian
> 1974 "Jeg, Donald Duck" book. Using your
> own logic, I'm going to blame *you* for that
> fiasco. On behalf of *serious* Donaldists
> everywhere I expect to get an apology from you
> regarding that mess.
You seem to have completely misunderstand my logic.
1) The second Norwegian translation was "a problem" for Norwegians only.
2) I haven't given you any reason to assume I support the attitudes behind
that second translation.
3) In my posting I din't ask anyone to apologize for the missing languages
in "Jeg, Mikke Mus".
> Oh, and calling languages you don't understand
> "rubble" is utter nonsense.
I was *not* calling oher languages "rubble" - I was adressing strange
alphabets and signs *only* as rubble. So if you wrote me a message in Danish
or in English but were using let's say the Arab alphabet I'd seen it as
"rubble" to.
Sigvald :-)
> Sigvald, sometimes I think you go around
> looking for reasons to be insulted.
Or let's say chanses of getting rid of some old irritation.
> As a historian, you must know that Yugoslavia
> in the 1970s was part of the East Bloc...
It was a neutral country, and thus not a part of the Warzaw-pact. It was
however as you correctly a communist country and thus at some will say "the
wrong side of the iron curtain".
> and thus (by Western countries) hardly was
> perceived to be a country in its own right.
> That the book even mentioned the names in
> "Yugoslavian", rather than the language of
> some Western country, is a small (positive)
> surprise in itself.
Or a proof that the Italian redaction was more aware of their neighbouring
countries than Scandinavia.
>> Well let me just tell all Swedes this: for
>> Norwegian and I bet also Danish readers of
>> any age, Asian "rubble" is definitely *not*
>> as interesting as Swedish names!
>
> You'd lose that bet.
Why? Have you asked every Dane or every Norwegian about that???
> I was very interested by Rich Bellacera's list
> of characters in the "Disney Character names
> in Chinese" thread. Looking at it, I see such
> favorites of mine as Fethry Duck and Madam Mim
> are mentioned - implying (to me, at least) that
> stories featuring them are being printed in
> China.
OK, and the lack of a Portuguese or was is a "Spanish" name for Drakeborough
tells me that some readctions haven't published some of Don Rosa's stories
yet. But this is not why I look in such list of Character's names anyway.
> That's *much* more interesting to me than what
> the name of, say, Daisy Duck is in Sweden - I
> already know stories featuring her are being
> used all over Scandinavia, so what information
> could I get out of knowing her Swedish name?
You seem to forget that I was 10-12 years old at the time I first got "Jeg,
Mikke Mus", by then I was very interested to know the Swedish names, but I
didn't have the internet to help me...
> Personally, I'm puzzled by why you would fault
> the Swedish editorial group in the 1970s for
> something the *Norwegian* editorial group of
> that time failed to do - namely include the
> Swedish names in the Norwegian edition. Care
> to explain why?
Just that the interest, shown by people with Swedish names, for Rick's topic
triggered a two and a half decade old irritation of mine.
> Also, I'm puzzled by the line you draw from
> the Swedish 1970s editorial group to today's
> Swedish members of the DCML, blaming the
> latter for the former's (alleged) mistakes:
That was not for offending andybody - it was (I guess) just for justifying
my complaints of the list in a book printed more than 25 years ago.
> As you probably know, the Barks story
> "Lost in the Andes!" (about the square eggs)
> underwent a not-too-well-received second
> translation when it was used in the Norwegian
> 1974 "Jeg, Donald Duck" book. Using your
> own logic, I'm going to blame *you* for that
> fiasco. On behalf of *serious* Donaldists
> everywhere I expect to get an apology from you
> regarding that mess.
You seem to have completely misunderstand my logic.
1) The second Norwegian translation was "a problem" for Norwegians only.
2) I haven't given you any reason to assume I support the attitudes behind
that second translation.
3) In my posting I din't ask anyone to apologize for the missing languages
in "Jeg, Mikke Mus".
> Oh, and calling languages you don't understand
> "rubble" is utter nonsense.
I was *not* calling oher languages "rubble" - I was adressing strange
alphabets and signs *only* as rubble. So if you wrote me a message in Danish
or in English but were using let's say the Arab alphabet I'd seen it as
"rubble" to.
Sigvald :-)