S?ren, I agree with much of what you say. Too many hard facts (technical or historical) can bog down a story.
But when Don Rosa COMBINES his technical knowledge with his vivid imagination, the result can be hilarious. Here is just one example:
In "A matter of some gravity", Magica puts a spell on Scrooge and Donald so that - for them - gravity works sideways. I suppose even a non-engineer could come up with an idea like that, but could anyone BUT an engineer make so much of it? Like when the nephews use Donald to pull their wagon (he 'falls' sideways along the street), or when Scrooge and Donald ride the bus and have to stand on the inside of the front windshild - with disastrous results when the bus makes a U-turn? I think you would have to be an engineer with an analytical mind to think of these things.
It's an interesting question. Maybe other list members have more examples.
Nils from Norway
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Author
Topic: 200305
(658 messages)
Klartekst
What IF Don Rosa had not been an engineer?
Message 466 -
2003-05-24 at 00:10:10
Sigvald Grøsfjeld Jr.
Swedes and character names in strange languages
Message 467 -
2003-05-24 at 00:11:47
Lars Jensen <lpj at forfatter.dk> wrote:
> No. But then, I didn't have to. You said you'd
> "bet" Danish readers were not as interested in
> Asian "rubble" as in Swedish names. Which meant,
> you tried to speak for me (amongst others). I
> am a Danish reader, and I *am* more interested
> in the Asian names than in the Swedish ditto.
> Which contradicts your line about all Danes
> sharing your opinion. And makes you lose that
> bet.
No, because I didn't use the waor "all". "Danish readers" is *not* the same
as "all Danish readers" it's more like "most Danish readers".
Anyway this dispute doesen't lead anyway so why not drop it here.
>> OK, and the lack of a Portuguese or was is a
>> Spanish name for Drakeborough tells me that
>> some readctions haven't published some of
>> Don Rosa's stories yet. But this is not why
>> I look in such list of Character's names
>> anyway.
>
> But that is sometimes why *I* look at such
> lists.
Well then both types of readers should be respected by the publisher.
> You tried to speak for every Norwegian and Dane.
No, just for most Norwegians and Danes.
> Just as the use of Japanese and Arab names
> in "Jeg, Mikke Mus" seems to have been a
> problem for you only.
Bah!! That's only because noone else have botthered to complain.
> I certainly haven't seen any other Norwegian
> members of DCML chime in with their criticism.
No why should they - I have spoken for them, besides this is not a problem
anymore as we have the Internet today, so I guess they don't bother.
> Just as the Swedish members of DCML (and
> Christina) haven't given you any reason to
> assume they support the attitudes behind the
> use of Japanese and Arab names in "Jeg, Mikke
> Mus".
Oh, yes they have indeed. By showing such interest for Rich's topic that is.
But to not offend anyone I did add the last lines to my message in where I
wrote that thanks to the internet those interested in Swedish names can help
them selves while the Swedes and Finns are discussing Chinese names with
Rich.
> You only asked Swedish members of DCML to
> "clean their own house before taking care of
> other people's business".
That was only a stupid joke in order to get attention.
> Honestly, Sigvald, it would be much easier
> discussing these things with you if you used
> the correct words.
You're right about that.
> Although, you *do* realize that Sweden has two
> characters in their alphabet (? and ?) which
> don't appear in the Norwegian one, right?
Correct!
> Doesn't this make the Swedish alphabet "rubble"?
> Which, according to you, means it should be
> kept out of "Jeg, Mikke Mus" - which of course
> it was...
No, I have never had any problems with those two characters - and IMO they
are a part of the Latin alphabeth just like our own ? and ?, the German ?,
etc. Norwegian and Danish kids unfamiliar with those letters would have no
problems finding someone to help explaining those characters for them.
For the outsiders I can add that (? = ? and ? = ?) so the way the letters
look in the Scandinavian languages is the only difference. For example: in
Norwegian Text-TV the swedish variants are often used instead of the
Norwegian ones.
Sigvald :-)
> No. But then, I didn't have to. You said you'd
> "bet" Danish readers were not as interested in
> Asian "rubble" as in Swedish names. Which meant,
> you tried to speak for me (amongst others). I
> am a Danish reader, and I *am* more interested
> in the Asian names than in the Swedish ditto.
> Which contradicts your line about all Danes
> sharing your opinion. And makes you lose that
> bet.
No, because I didn't use the waor "all". "Danish readers" is *not* the same
as "all Danish readers" it's more like "most Danish readers".
Anyway this dispute doesen't lead anyway so why not drop it here.
>> OK, and the lack of a Portuguese or was is a
>> Spanish name for Drakeborough tells me that
>> some readctions haven't published some of
>> Don Rosa's stories yet. But this is not why
>> I look in such list of Character's names
>> anyway.
>
> But that is sometimes why *I* look at such
> lists.
Well then both types of readers should be respected by the publisher.
> You tried to speak for every Norwegian and Dane.
No, just for most Norwegians and Danes.
> Just as the use of Japanese and Arab names
> in "Jeg, Mikke Mus" seems to have been a
> problem for you only.
Bah!! That's only because noone else have botthered to complain.
> I certainly haven't seen any other Norwegian
> members of DCML chime in with their criticism.
No why should they - I have spoken for them, besides this is not a problem
anymore as we have the Internet today, so I guess they don't bother.
> Just as the Swedish members of DCML (and
> Christina) haven't given you any reason to
> assume they support the attitudes behind the
> use of Japanese and Arab names in "Jeg, Mikke
> Mus".
Oh, yes they have indeed. By showing such interest for Rich's topic that is.
But to not offend anyone I did add the last lines to my message in where I
wrote that thanks to the internet those interested in Swedish names can help
them selves while the Swedes and Finns are discussing Chinese names with
Rich.
> You only asked Swedish members of DCML to
> "clean their own house before taking care of
> other people's business".
That was only a stupid joke in order to get attention.
> Honestly, Sigvald, it would be much easier
> discussing these things with you if you used
> the correct words.
You're right about that.
> Although, you *do* realize that Sweden has two
> characters in their alphabet (? and ?) which
> don't appear in the Norwegian one, right?
Correct!
> Doesn't this make the Swedish alphabet "rubble"?
> Which, according to you, means it should be
> kept out of "Jeg, Mikke Mus" - which of course
> it was...
No, I have never had any problems with those two characters - and IMO they
are a part of the Latin alphabeth just like our own ? and ?, the German ?,
etc. Norwegian and Danish kids unfamiliar with those letters would have no
problems finding someone to help explaining those characters for them.
For the outsiders I can add that (? = ? and ? = ?) so the way the letters
look in the Scandinavian languages is the only difference. For example: in
Norwegian Text-TV the swedish variants are often used instead of the
Norwegian ones.
Sigvald :-)
Stefan Persson
Swedes and character names in strange
Message 468 -
2003-05-24 at 00:16:33
Sigvald Gr?sfjeld jr. wrote:
> Not true! If that 10 language list had been expanded with 2 (Swedish and
> Finnish) or 4 (
> Swedish, Finnish, Dutch and Spanish) languages I would have been satisfied.
Read what you wrote:
> Well then both types of readers should be
> respected by the publisher.
> Not necesarrily. I have an uncle living in Gothenburg writing our familyname
> with and "?" like this: Gr?sfjeld. My father have also done so from time to
> time as he once worked at Bofors. So if my name is to be mentioned in a
> Swedish magazine like "NAFSK-kuriren" you should feel free to use your own
> "?" if you like.
Writing it with an "?" would be wrong. The fact that the "?" character
is not included in the Swedish keyboard drivers for Windows and DOS as
well as in some UNIX keyboard drivers is irrelevant.
> I guess that's because those characters are included in teh German alphabet
> as well. Otherwise it would have looked as an insult by Microsoft against
> Norwegians and Danes.
It still is: IBM (not Microsoft) included "?" but not "?" or "?".
Stefan
> Not true! If that 10 language list had been expanded with 2 (Swedish and
> Finnish) or 4 (
> Swedish, Finnish, Dutch and Spanish) languages I would have been satisfied.
Read what you wrote:
> Well then both types of readers should be
> respected by the publisher.
> Not necesarrily. I have an uncle living in Gothenburg writing our familyname
> with and "?" like this: Gr?sfjeld. My father have also done so from time to
> time as he once worked at Bofors. So if my name is to be mentioned in a
> Swedish magazine like "NAFSK-kuriren" you should feel free to use your own
> "?" if you like.
Writing it with an "?" would be wrong. The fact that the "?" character
is not included in the Swedish keyboard drivers for Windows and DOS as
well as in some UNIX keyboard drivers is irrelevant.
> I guess that's because those characters are included in teh German alphabet
> as well. Otherwise it would have looked as an insult by Microsoft against
> Norwegians and Danes.
It still is: IBM (not Microsoft) included "?" but not "?" or "?".
Stefan
Sigvald Grøsfjeld Jr.
What IF
Message 469 -
2003-05-24 at 00:25:30
S?ren Krarup Olesen <sko at acoustics.dk> wrote:
> Apparently you, Sigvald, fell for it. I can
> surely see why. Sorting historical events into
> categories is both entertaining and helpful if
> you wish to get an overview of a complex area--
> and Disney comics is certainly one such.
"Fell for it..." this look rather offensive to me, bot against DR and
against me. Your text seems to indicate that I shouldn't have "fallen" for
Lo$.
I know that there are some serious people in this list who have studied
theology, would you just say that they have read the Bible and apparently
they "fell for it"?
> Sigvald, your idea and conception of "foreign"
> alphabets really scares me!
So maybe you haven't understood what I have been saying? - well that's OK as
I apparently have been rather unclear.
So let me now bee clear about this topic:
There is *nothing wrong* with languages, alphabets or signs other that the
ones we are familiar with, but some alphabets and signs are som unfamiliar
to me that they just looks like dots and lines with no maning to me - thus I
prefer text written with familiar letters in stead.
> (who doesn't really care what language or
> alphabeth as long as we can get it into
> Inducks...well, that's for Stefan to figure
> out :-D
And I do agree!
Sigvald :-)
> Apparently you, Sigvald, fell for it. I can
> surely see why. Sorting historical events into
> categories is both entertaining and helpful if
> you wish to get an overview of a complex area--
> and Disney comics is certainly one such.
"Fell for it..." this look rather offensive to me, bot against DR and
against me. Your text seems to indicate that I shouldn't have "fallen" for
Lo$.
I know that there are some serious people in this list who have studied
theology, would you just say that they have read the Bible and apparently
they "fell for it"?
> Sigvald, your idea and conception of "foreign"
> alphabets really scares me!
So maybe you haven't understood what I have been saying? - well that's OK as
I apparently have been rather unclear.
So let me now bee clear about this topic:
There is *nothing wrong* with languages, alphabets or signs other that the
ones we are familiar with, but some alphabets and signs are som unfamiliar
to me that they just looks like dots and lines with no maning to me - thus I
prefer text written with familiar letters in stead.
> (who doesn't really care what language or
> alphabeth as long as we can get it into
> Inducks...well, that's for Stefan to figure
> out :-D
And I do agree!
Sigvald :-)
Sigvald Grøsfjeld Jr.
An apology
Message 470 -
2003-05-24 at 00:35:30
Hi all!
As my message concerning the missing Swedish character's names in the "Jeg
Mikke Mus" book from 1976, has caused a lot of misunderstandings and trouble
I will here aplogize to all Swedes in this for the way I adressed this
topic.
As I have clearifyed the misunderstandings in my answers to other recent
postings I will drop that here, but I do hope we can move on and adress
other more interesting topics.
I also think that our friends Rob Klein and Harry Fluks had some very
important and serious postings today - and I agree with both.
Sigvald :-)
As my message concerning the missing Swedish character's names in the "Jeg
Mikke Mus" book from 1976, has caused a lot of misunderstandings and trouble
I will here aplogize to all Swedes in this for the way I adressed this
topic.
As I have clearifyed the misunderstandings in my answers to other recent
postings I will drop that here, but I do hope we can move on and adress
other more interesting topics.
I also think that our friends Rob Klein and Harry Fluks had some very
important and serious postings today - and I agree with both.
Sigvald :-)
Theresa Wiegert
Behave!
Message 471 -
2003-05-24 at 00:35:33
Really, Lars Jensen, Olaf, Sigvald...
I'd like to see more reasoning like what Rob Klein just wrote - (kind,
analysing, intelligent), less of yours (Ma, he hit me! But HE said... but
he said that first! nag, moan...). Heh, ok, so now I'm
doing the same...
I do not mean to be offensive by this.... (I think! :) perhaps I do... No,
what I mean is, I don't want to hurt your feelings, BUT I am considering
not being a member of the DCML anymore, because these are not valid,
upbuilding, interesting mailings anymore. So PLEASE, try
to behave, ok?
LIKE eachother, can that be so hard? Because I'd rather nog miss all the
good postings, it's just that they are so sparse nowadays...
So why don't we start a new crazy thread? Something that comes up every
other year? I don't know what that would be though...
kvack,
/T
I'd like to see more reasoning like what Rob Klein just wrote - (kind,
analysing, intelligent), less of yours (Ma, he hit me! But HE said... but
he said that first! nag, moan...). Heh, ok, so now I'm
doing the same...
I do not mean to be offensive by this.... (I think! :) perhaps I do... No,
what I mean is, I don't want to hurt your feelings, BUT I am considering
not being a member of the DCML anymore, because these are not valid,
upbuilding, interesting mailings anymore. So PLEASE, try
to behave, ok?
LIKE eachother, can that be so hard? Because I'd rather nog miss all the
good postings, it's just that they are so sparse nowadays...
So why don't we start a new crazy thread? Something that comes up every
other year? I don't know what that would be though...
kvack,
/T
Sigvald Grøsfjeld Jr.
Smileys
Message 472 -
2003-05-24 at 00:39:16
H.W.Fluks at telecom.tno.nl wrote:
> And this is *not* the place where people
> usually put a smiley. To most people it
> means "this mail is a joke" or "Sigvald is
> a joke".
Well, you see, I use it in order to show that the mail is intended to be
read as a friendly one - as you know my mails are sometimes seen as
offensive even thoug that was not my initial intention.
Sigvald :-)
> And this is *not* the place where people
> usually put a smiley. To most people it
> means "this mail is a joke" or "Sigvald is
> a joke".
Well, you see, I use it in order to show that the mail is intended to be
read as a friendly one - as you know my mails are sometimes seen as
offensive even thoug that was not my initial intention.
Sigvald :-)
Sigvald Grøsfjeld Jr.
Language! Narf! [mostly OT]
Message 473 -
2003-05-24 at 00:49:44
Stefan Persson wrote:
> According to the ISO 639-1 and 639-2 standards,
> Serbian and Croatian are two different
> languages.
Yes, because today they are spoken in two separate nations. The difference
is mostly that Croatian is written with Latin letters while Serbian is
written with Cyrillic letters.
AFAIK one of the main reasons behind the Croatia-war in the early 1990's was
that the local Serbs, supported by Milosevic's regime in Serbia, refused the
Croatian president Franjo Tudjman's orders to switch over to the Latin
alphabet in order to make the new Croatia look more homogenous.
>> Bah!!! I once mailed Anders And & Co in
>> order to get a Danish name for one of Don
>> Rosa's stories - I have never got any answer!
>
> And what if you had sent your mail to Donald
> Duck & Co instead...?
Why should I ask them about a Danish topic?
>> That was just a stupid joke in order to get
>> attention.
>
> It did not look like that.
I am very sorry that I am not that good with jokes.
> SI only defines kelvin, not centigrades.
Exactly, that was why I had to add "Celsius system" to the line.
>> * the siphres 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 and 9 as
>> written in wester'n style.
>
> You mean the numerals?
Yes.
Sigvald :-)
> According to the ISO 639-1 and 639-2 standards,
> Serbian and Croatian are two different
> languages.
Yes, because today they are spoken in two separate nations. The difference
is mostly that Croatian is written with Latin letters while Serbian is
written with Cyrillic letters.
AFAIK one of the main reasons behind the Croatia-war in the early 1990's was
that the local Serbs, supported by Milosevic's regime in Serbia, refused the
Croatian president Franjo Tudjman's orders to switch over to the Latin
alphabet in order to make the new Croatia look more homogenous.
>> Bah!!! I once mailed Anders And & Co in
>> order to get a Danish name for one of Don
>> Rosa's stories - I have never got any answer!
>
> And what if you had sent your mail to Donald
> Duck & Co instead...?
Why should I ask them about a Danish topic?
>> That was just a stupid joke in order to get
>> attention.
>
> It did not look like that.
I am very sorry that I am not that good with jokes.
> SI only defines kelvin, not centigrades.
Exactly, that was why I had to add "Celsius system" to the line.
>> * the siphres 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 and 9 as
>> written in wester'n style.
>
> You mean the numerals?
Yes.
Sigvald :-)
Sigvald Grøsfjeld Jr.
Swedes and character names in strange languages [mostly
Message 474 -
2003-05-24 at 01:01:54
Stefan Persson wrote:
>> Well then both types of readers should be
>> respected by the publisher.
>
> Then you would end up having to include every
> name for every character in every language,
> which would require WAY too much space in the
> book.
Not true! If that 10 language list had been expanded with 2 (Swedish and
Finnish) or 4 (
Swedish, Finnish, Dutch and Spanish) languages I would have been satisfied.
> "?" and "?" may both appear in the same text
> -- for example, in a Swedish text about you,
> "?" would be used for writing your name, while
> "?" would be used everywhere else.
Not necesarrily. I have an uncle living in Gothenburg writing our familyname
with and "?" like this: Gr?sfjeld. My father have also done so from time to
time as he once worked at Bofors. So if my name is to be mentioned in a
Swedish magazine like "NAFSK-kuriren" you should feel free to use your own
"?" if you like.
> Some language versions of MS-DOS do not include
> "?" and "?" but only "?" and "?".
I guess that's because those characters are included in teh German alphabet
as well. Otherwise it would have looked as an insult by Microsoft against
Norwegians and Danes.
Sigvald :-)
>> Well then both types of readers should be
>> respected by the publisher.
>
> Then you would end up having to include every
> name for every character in every language,
> which would require WAY too much space in the
> book.
Not true! If that 10 language list had been expanded with 2 (Swedish and
Finnish) or 4 (
Swedish, Finnish, Dutch and Spanish) languages I would have been satisfied.
> "?" and "?" may both appear in the same text
> -- for example, in a Swedish text about you,
> "?" would be used for writing your name, while
> "?" would be used everywhere else.
Not necesarrily. I have an uncle living in Gothenburg writing our familyname
with and "?" like this: Gr?sfjeld. My father have also done so from time to
time as he once worked at Bofors. So if my name is to be mentioned in a
Swedish magazine like "NAFSK-kuriren" you should feel free to use your own
"?" if you like.
> Some language versions of MS-DOS do not include
> "?" and "?" but only "?" and "?".
I guess that's because those characters are included in teh German alphabet
as well. Otherwise it would have looked as an insult by Microsoft against
Norwegians and Danes.
Sigvald :-)
Sigvald Grøsfjeld Jr.
What IF
Message 475 -
2003-05-24 at 01:04:15
Stefan Persson wrote:
> Are you thinking of Vidar Svendsen?
Him too...
Sigvald :-)
> Are you thinking of Vidar Svendsen?
Him too...
Sigvald :-)
Martin Olsen
SIGVALD:Please...
Message 476 -
2003-05-24 at 01:06:56
Sigvald, I have seen several times that you rush your opinions into this mailing list, and I won't blame you for that. I remember that I myself rushed a few messages into the (snail)mail to Donaldisten when I was young, and a few times I realized after sending a letter to P?lemann that I had been hasty in my criticism of this and that.
What I didn't do in those days was to try to defend opinions I found out to be unjustified. On the contrary, I apologized for my misjudgements when I found it due.
The thing I see you doing these days is trying to defend opinions *just because you have once stated them*.
I believe you would make a much better figure on this mailing list if you would admit that you have been making hasty conclusions or that you have uttered some gibberish that doesn't make sense.
As for the "White books" language list: *So what* if you felt annoyed by the omission of Swedish names. I couldn't care less what *you* felt about a book published 27 years ago. If you had wanted to know the Swedish names of the characters back in 1976, you could have written a letter to the Swedish Kalle Anka editors and asked them. Maybe your posts on this matter are really a sign of your frustration that you *didn't* write that letter back then?
Another thing: I have noticed that you have chosen to include a statement in almost every post that you do not intend to offend anybody. By doing so, you more or less invalidate your own statement: it's like issuing a blank check to yourself. I believe that you should leave it up to the recipients of your mailings to decide whether or not they are offensive.
Sigvald, I'm sure you're a nice guy, and I would like to meet you some day, but I hope I'll meet a more mature Sigvald than the one I see posting messages on DCML these days. Or - to put it another way - I hope to meet a Sigvald who appreciates the entire Disney creative bunch of people, rather than a fanatic Rosa-fan.
Martin.
What I didn't do in those days was to try to defend opinions I found out to be unjustified. On the contrary, I apologized for my misjudgements when I found it due.
The thing I see you doing these days is trying to defend opinions *just because you have once stated them*.
I believe you would make a much better figure on this mailing list if you would admit that you have been making hasty conclusions or that you have uttered some gibberish that doesn't make sense.
As for the "White books" language list: *So what* if you felt annoyed by the omission of Swedish names. I couldn't care less what *you* felt about a book published 27 years ago. If you had wanted to know the Swedish names of the characters back in 1976, you could have written a letter to the Swedish Kalle Anka editors and asked them. Maybe your posts on this matter are really a sign of your frustration that you *didn't* write that letter back then?
Another thing: I have noticed that you have chosen to include a statement in almost every post that you do not intend to offend anybody. By doing so, you more or less invalidate your own statement: it's like issuing a blank check to yourself. I believe that you should leave it up to the recipients of your mailings to decide whether or not they are offensive.
Sigvald, I'm sure you're a nice guy, and I would like to meet you some day, but I hope I'll meet a more mature Sigvald than the one I see posting messages on DCML these days. Or - to put it another way - I hope to meet a Sigvald who appreciates the entire Disney creative bunch of people, rather than a fanatic Rosa-fan.
Martin.
Martin Olsen
DCML Digest, Vol 3, Issue 44
Message 477 -
2003-05-24 at 01:13:17
> > I sincerely doubt that Italians and Americans
> > were feeling that something was missing because
> > there was no Swedish names in their "Io
> > Topolino" books.
>
> So what? I was concerning about Scandinavian children here, not Italians,
> Americans or any other non-Scandinavians.
>
No, Sigvald, You were concerned about *one* Scandinavian child, namely yourself!
Martin.
> > were feeling that something was missing because
> > there was no Swedish names in their "Io
> > Topolino" books.
>
> So what? I was concerning about Scandinavian children here, not Italians,
> Americans or any other non-Scandinavians.
>
No, Sigvald, You were concerned about *one* Scandinavian child, namely yourself!
Martin.
Martin Olsen
DCML Digest, Vol 3, Issue 44
Message 478 -
2003-05-24 at 01:29:54
Sigvald wrote:
> No, because I didn't use the waor "all". "Danish readers" is *not* the same
> as "all Danish readers" it's more like "most Danish readers".
(I wonder what the word "waor" is supposed to mean??)
Please express yourself clearly in your first statement. What you said was:
>>> Well let me just tell all Swedes this: for
>>> Norwegian and I bet also Danish readers of
>>> any age, Asian "rubble" is definitely *not*
>>> as interesting as Swedish names!
To me, this statement implies that you are speaking on behalf of *all* Norwegian readers and that *you bet* that you are speaking on behalf of *all* Danish readers.
I can tell you that you are *not*, so I agree with Lars that you lost your bet.
I wonder what the stakes were? What did I win???
Again: Sigvls, please try to make statements only for yourself. You make a fool of yourself by trying to impose your opinions on everybody.
Martin.
> No, because I didn't use the waor "all". "Danish readers" is *not* the same
> as "all Danish readers" it's more like "most Danish readers".
(I wonder what the word "waor" is supposed to mean??)
Please express yourself clearly in your first statement. What you said was:
>>> Well let me just tell all Swedes this: for
>>> Norwegian and I bet also Danish readers of
>>> any age, Asian "rubble" is definitely *not*
>>> as interesting as Swedish names!
To me, this statement implies that you are speaking on behalf of *all* Norwegian readers and that *you bet* that you are speaking on behalf of *all* Danish readers.
I can tell you that you are *not*, so I agree with Lars that you lost your bet.
I wonder what the stakes were? What did I win???
Again: Sigvls, please try to make statements only for yourself. You make a fool of yourself by trying to impose your opinions on everybody.
Martin.
Stefan Diös
Language! Narf! [mostly OT]
Message 479 -
2003-05-24 at 01:59:39
Stefan P:
> > According to the ISO 639-1 and 639-2 standards,
> > Serbian and Croatian are two different
> > languages.
I'm sure this happened after the separation of Croatia from Yugoslavia.
Before that, "Serbo-Croatian" was one of the official languages of that union.
Which I find quite interesting. I read somewhere that the difference
between a dialect and a separate language often is purely political, not
linguistic. This makes a lot of sense to me. Picking a nearby example,
inhabitants of some regions of Sweden speak dialects so thick that other
Swedes sometimes even claim not to understand them. But it is still Swedish
for sure - up to the day when one of those regions breaks away to form a
new, independent country. Which, I might add, doesn't seem very probable in
the near future, even though a small number of more or less serious
extremists do exist.
But if it does happen, that new country will immediately adopt the name of
the former dialect as their official language. They might even, in time,
decide to spell some words differently to further show their independence.
Other than that, there will obviously be no difference at all in the way
the language is used, especially when spoken. Maybe this is a little bit
like how it happened in Croatia and Bosnia-H, for example?
Another off-topic topic recently discussed: My surname is correctly spelled
with an ?, that is, Di?s, with the O with the dots. But that letter usually
didn't go through very well internationally. I don't even know if all
recipients of this list can read it (or if they care). I do know that some
of my E-mail correspondents don't receive it, but some code instead. So I
normally drop the dots whenever writing my name in an international
context, like below:
Stefan Dios
Malmo, Sweden
> > According to the ISO 639-1 and 639-2 standards,
> > Serbian and Croatian are two different
> > languages.
I'm sure this happened after the separation of Croatia from Yugoslavia.
Before that, "Serbo-Croatian" was one of the official languages of that union.
Which I find quite interesting. I read somewhere that the difference
between a dialect and a separate language often is purely political, not
linguistic. This makes a lot of sense to me. Picking a nearby example,
inhabitants of some regions of Sweden speak dialects so thick that other
Swedes sometimes even claim not to understand them. But it is still Swedish
for sure - up to the day when one of those regions breaks away to form a
new, independent country. Which, I might add, doesn't seem very probable in
the near future, even though a small number of more or less serious
extremists do exist.
But if it does happen, that new country will immediately adopt the name of
the former dialect as their official language. They might even, in time,
decide to spell some words differently to further show their independence.
Other than that, there will obviously be no difference at all in the way
the language is used, especially when spoken. Maybe this is a little bit
like how it happened in Croatia and Bosnia-H, for example?
Another off-topic topic recently discussed: My surname is correctly spelled
with an ?, that is, Di?s, with the O with the dots. But that letter usually
didn't go through very well internationally. I don't even know if all
recipients of this list can read it (or if they care). I do know that some
of my E-mail correspondents don't receive it, but some code instead. So I
normally drop the dots whenever writing my name in an international
context, like below:
Stefan Dios
Malmo, Sweden
Sigvald Grøsfjeld Jr.
SIGVALD:Please...
Message 480 -
2003-05-24 at 04:36:36
Martin Olsen <martin_olsen at post.tele.dk> wrote:
> What I didn't do in those days was to try to
> defend opinions I found out to be unjustified.
> On the contrary, I apologized for my
> misjudgements when I found it due.
Just as I have often been doing here at DCML - even as late as tonight.
> The thing I see you doing these days is trying
> to defend opinions *just because you have once
> stated them*.
No, because I do belive in them.
> I believe you would make a much better figure
> on this mailing list if you would admit that
> you have been making hasty conclusions or that
> you have uttered some gibberish that doesn't
> make sense.
Well, I have often done so.
> Maybe your posts on this matter are really a
> sign of your frustration that you *didn't*
> write that letter back then?
No, just a sign of frustation over the IMO wrong decissions made by the
local publisher by then.
> Or - to put it another way - I hope to meet a
> Sigvald who appreciates the entire Disney
> creative bunch of people, rather than a fanatic
> Rosa-fan.
Well I do own a complete collection of Norwegian Donald Duck Pocket Books so
I hope I won't disappoint you.
Sigvald :-)
> What I didn't do in those days was to try to
> defend opinions I found out to be unjustified.
> On the contrary, I apologized for my
> misjudgements when I found it due.
Just as I have often been doing here at DCML - even as late as tonight.
> The thing I see you doing these days is trying
> to defend opinions *just because you have once
> stated them*.
No, because I do belive in them.
> I believe you would make a much better figure
> on this mailing list if you would admit that
> you have been making hasty conclusions or that
> you have uttered some gibberish that doesn't
> make sense.
Well, I have often done so.
> Maybe your posts on this matter are really a
> sign of your frustration that you *didn't*
> write that letter back then?
No, just a sign of frustation over the IMO wrong decissions made by the
local publisher by then.
> Or - to put it another way - I hope to meet a
> Sigvald who appreciates the entire Disney
> creative bunch of people, rather than a fanatic
> Rosa-fan.
Well I do own a complete collection of Norwegian Donald Duck Pocket Books so
I hope I won't disappoint you.
Sigvald :-)