Moved from the thread about Don Rosa's Life and Times of Scrooge McDuck (my apologies for the missing flags and avatars)
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From
mexican fan
Quote from user: OlivierArgonaut referred you to the Mounties, and I could refer you to the Arpin Lusène stories for French stereotypes-- which do not bother me; what bothers me is that the poor English you hear or read when people want to portray Frenchmen does not match the actual mistakes Frenchmen make.
Anyway, I wonder: are we less sensitive to this because its our own culture (Canadian or French, here)? are we afraid of a racist interpretation, that a gag might offend people, out of an ancestral colonizer's guilt? I don't mean racism does not exist in comics, but we might have become overly sensitive due to "political correctness" and lawsuits and fear offense when there is none intended nor felt by the persons concerned.
(This topic was broached in another thread, on Gottfredson's Mickey Mouse strips).
and panchito is a mexican stereothype...and...i love him,and i never find stereotypes ...well,something racist,like a song said
Everyone's a little bit racist
Today.
So, everyone's a little bit racist
Okay!
Ethinic jokes might be uncouth,
But you laugh because
They're based on truth.
Don't take them as
Personal attacks.
Everyone enjoys them -
So relax!
http://www.stlyrics.com/lyrics/avenueq/everyonesalittlebitracist.htm
btw
..why pancito pistoles? is pistolas...
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From Roger North
I never heard that song before Mexican Fan.
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From Joxer96
Quote from user: mexican fan..why panchito pistoles? is pistolas...
I've wondered about that myself, especially since the plural for the word 'pistol' is 'pistols'. Pistoles are Spanish coins. 'Pistolas', the Spanish plural for 'pistola' (pistol) definitely makes more sense. Sorry for going OT, but this is one that's always bugged me. ; )
Gus
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From LadyQuackly
Quote from user: Joxer96Quote from user: mexican fan..why panchito pistoles? is pistolas...
I've wondered about that myself, especially since the plural for the word 'pistol' is 'pistols'. Pistoles are Spanish coins. 'Pistolas', the Spanish plural for 'pistola' (pistol) definitely makes more sense. Sorry for going OT, but this is one that's always bugged me. ; )
Gus
I never even knew Panchi had a last name until recently. Then there's a House of Mouse episode where we find out he has a heck of a long name: Panchito Romero Miguel Junipero Francisco Quintero Gonzalez. (So help me God. :) )
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From Cacou
According to Wikipedia his name is sometimes spelled "Pistolas". Does anyone have a reference for that?
He also has yet another name in this Ken Hultgren story:
http://outducks.org/webusers/webusers-char0/us_wdc_038_03_001_pac.jpg
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From Robb_K
Quote from user: LadyQuacklyQuote from user: Joxer96Quote from user: mexican fan..why panchito pistoles? is pistolas...
I've wondered about that myself, especially since the plural for the word 'pistol' is 'pistols'. Pistoles are Spanish coins. 'Pistolas', the Spanish plural for 'pistola' (pistol) definitely makes more sense. Sorry for going OT, but this is one that's always bugged me. ; )
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Gus
I never even knew Panchi had a last name until recently. Then there's a House of Mouse episode where we find out he has a heck of a long name: Panchito Romero Miguel Junipero Francisco Quintero Gonzalez. (So help me God. :) )
I guess that Gonzalez was his mother's family name, and Pistolas was his father's. But, maybe the family changed Pistolas to Pistoles, to avoid endless jokes, or to have them always identitfied with violence. Spellings of names often get corrupted over the centuries. "Panchito Pistolas" or "Panchito Pistoles"? Both run off the tongue, well.
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From MexicanFan
Quote from user: Robb_KQuote from user: LadyQuacklyQuote from user: Joxer96I've wondered about that myself, especially since the plural for the word 'pistol' is 'pistols'. Pistoles are Spanish coins. 'Pistolas', the Spanish plural for 'pistola' (pistol) definitely makes more sense. Sorry for going OT, but this is one that's always bugged me. ; )
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Gus
I never even knew Panchi had a last name until recently. Then there's a House of Mouse episode where we find out he has a heck of a long name: Panchito Romero Miguel Junipero Francisco Quintero Gonzalez. (So help me God. :) )
I guess that Gonzalez was his mother's family name, and Pistolas was his father's. But, maybe the family changed Pistolas to Pistoles, to avoid endless jokes, or to have them always identitfied with violence. Spellings of names often get corrupted over the centuries. "Panchito Pistolas" or "Panchito Pistoles"? Both run off the tongue, well.
Gonzalez is the mother and the father is Quintero
and panchito=pancho=paco=Francisco
ok...too much off topic..
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From LadyQuackly
Quote from user: cacouAccording to Wikipedia his name is sometimes spelled "Pistolas". Does anyone have a reference for that?
He also has yet another name in this Ken Hultgren story:
http://outducks.org/webusers/webusers-char0/us_wdc_038_03_001_pac.jpg
Aw, that's cute! :D
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From Cacou
Quote from user: LadyQuacklyAw, that's cute! :D
Well Panchito is a seductor ;)
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Author
Topic: Panchito
(7 messages)
Cacou
Panchito
Message 1 -
2008-07-31 at 21:43:49
WB
Panchito
Message 2 -
2008-08-04 at 18:02:43
I don't know about anybody else but I'm glad that Panchito and Jose were added into regular duck continuity. I'm all about expanding the cast.
To be honest - as a black guy - I never even paid any attention to the pickaninny stereotype at all when I initially read it. Honestly, it completely went over my head I don't think it even registered once - even in constant rereadings of it. (DENSE.)
I think that I remember reading that story in high school and wondering how in the hell they were going to handle Foola Zoola who - if you have read the original Voodoo Hoodoo at all, just about ALL the stereotypes there are far, far worse than anything than that one panel in Life and Times.
Anyway, it was those depictions that unerred me far far more than something as simple and obviously meant in good cheer as Panchito Pistoles who is just an endearingly chaotic character when written well. :)
After all, there's a vast vast difference between say, Speedy Gonzales VS early stereotypical Buckwheat . But people are so quick to offend at every little thing these days its hard to separate the wheat from the chaff when it comes to these things. =\"
To be honest - as a black guy - I never even paid any attention to the pickaninny stereotype at all when I initially read it. Honestly, it completely went over my head I don't think it even registered once - even in constant rereadings of it. (DENSE.)
I think that I remember reading that story in high school and wondering how in the hell they were going to handle Foola Zoola who - if you have read the original Voodoo Hoodoo at all, just about ALL the stereotypes there are far, far worse than anything than that one panel in Life and Times.
Anyway, it was those depictions that unerred me far far more than something as simple and obviously meant in good cheer as Panchito Pistoles who is just an endearingly chaotic character when written well. :)
After all, there's a vast vast difference between say, Speedy Gonzales VS early stereotypical Buckwheat . But people are so quick to offend at every little thing these days its hard to separate the wheat from the chaff when it comes to these things. =\"
Ramapith
Panchito
Message 3 -
2008-08-04 at 18:11:25
Quote from user: WBAfter all, there's a vast vast difference between say, Speedy Gonzales VS early stereotypical Buckwheat . But people are so quick to offend at every little thing these days its hard to separate the wheat from the chaff when it comes to these things.
Or the buckwheat from the buckchaff. OUCH!
(Er, people?for those who don't know Jonathan Gray in person, he hits HARD in response to bad puns.) (-:
Or the buckwheat from the buckchaff. OUCH!
(Er, people?for those who don't know Jonathan Gray in person, he hits HARD in response to bad puns.) (-:
WB
Panchito
Message 4 -
2008-08-04 at 18:26:11
Quote from user: ramapithOr the buckwheat from the buckchaff. OUCH!
(Er, people?for those who don't know Jonathan Gray in person, he hits HARD in response to bad puns.) (-:
Darn right I do.
David Gerstien when I see you next I will *END* you. LOL!
(Er, people?for those who don't know Jonathan Gray in person, he hits HARD in response to bad puns.) (-:
Darn right I do.
David Gerstien when I see you next I will *END* you. LOL!
Ramapith
Panchito
Message 5 -
2008-08-05 at 01:32:19
Quote from user: WBTo be honest - as a black guy - I never even paid any attention to the pickaninny stereotype at all when I initially read it. Honestly, it completely went over my head I don't think it even registered once - even in constant rereadings of it.
Er... is it even there at all?
You refer to the image a "pickaninny stereotype," and MVBlair calls it a "Mammy." But?going back and looking at it now, I'm not sure how it qualifies as any kind of ethnic image.
Scrooge is tossed out of the village by the tribesmen in what's supposed to be an embarrassing condition (because the tribe wanted to embarrass him). He's been comically marked up all over with warpaint; he has bones tied to his hair and whiskers and his body "costumed" in a pigskin.
It's not so different in tone from another humiliation gag one page earlier, in which Scrooge was splattered on the head with a painted ostrich egg.
As far as ethnic stereotypes go, a "mammy" is physically an overweight African-American lady with her hair in a bandanna, while a "pickaninny" is an African-American child dressed in rags with a huge number of bows tied in his/her hair. How does the disguised Scrooge look like either of these?and why, for that matter, would African natives embarrass Scrooge by disguising him as one?
Scrooge looks appropriately silly, but not ethnic.
(I'll crosspost this at the other thread where the discussion began...)
Er... is it even there at all?
You refer to the image a "pickaninny stereotype," and MVBlair calls it a "Mammy." But?going back and looking at it now, I'm not sure how it qualifies as any kind of ethnic image.
Scrooge is tossed out of the village by the tribesmen in what's supposed to be an embarrassing condition (because the tribe wanted to embarrass him). He's been comically marked up all over with warpaint; he has bones tied to his hair and whiskers and his body "costumed" in a pigskin.
It's not so different in tone from another humiliation gag one page earlier, in which Scrooge was splattered on the head with a painted ostrich egg.
As far as ethnic stereotypes go, a "mammy" is physically an overweight African-American lady with her hair in a bandanna, while a "pickaninny" is an African-American child dressed in rags with a huge number of bows tied in his/her hair. How does the disguised Scrooge look like either of these?and why, for that matter, would African natives embarrass Scrooge by disguising him as one?
Scrooge looks appropriately silly, but not ethnic.
(I'll crosspost this at the other thread where the discussion began...)
WB
Panchito
Message 6 -
2008-08-09 at 07:54:48
David - check the other thread. I just did a MAJOR recanting of that statement.
LadyQuackly
Panchito
Message 7 -
2008-08-11 at 00:12:39
Quote from user: cacouHe also has yet another name in this Ken Hultgren story:
http://outducks.org/webusers/webusers-char0/us_wdc_038_03_001_pac.jpg
Aw, that's cute! :D
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From Cacou
Quote from user: LadyQuacklyAw, that's cute! :D
Quote from user: cacouWell Panchito is a seductor ;)
He sure is! *woot*
http://outducks.org/webusers/webusers-char0/us_wdc_038_03_001_pac.jpg
Aw, that's cute! :D
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From Cacou
Quote from user: LadyQuacklyAw, that's cute! :D
Quote from user: cacouWell Panchito is a seductor ;)
He sure is! *woot*
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