I've been rereading some of the classic-era Barks adventures of late, and it strikes me (but not too hard, as I've thought this before) how few writers/artists have got the Beagle Boys "right"--i. e., depicted them the way Barks did in their most memorable appearances. "The Paul Bunyan Machine," "The Money Well," "24-Carat Moon," "Only a Poor Old Man," and so many other classic Barks stories show the B-Boys as creative, wily, and formidable villains, although hilarious at the same time. In other words, they're the perfect villains for a COMIC book--threatening and funny.
However, hardly any of the Disney creators that followed Barks used the Beagle Boys in this way. I think the Tony Strobl "solo" Beagle Boys stories did more damage to the characters than anything, creating the idea of the formerly formidable robbers as eternal losers. This depiction still persists in modern writers--Pat McGreal makes the poor Boys the butt of everyone's (from the Blot to Scrooge to Meringue the Magician) contempt in his Orb Saga, and Don Rosa's anniversary tribute to the Beagles ("Beagle Boys vs. the Money Bin") is just one long joke about their self-destructive incompetence.
One of the few modern stories that uses the Beagles in a more Barksian way is John Lustig and William Van Horn's "Sky-High Hijinks," which, though a Ducktales story, is full of Barks references, including one of my favorite moments in any Uncle Scrooge story--one of the Beagles yelling in fear: "It's Scrooge McDuck! The terrible Scrooge McDuck! He's coming to steal our stolen money!"
Can anyone think of more post-Barks stories in which the Beagle Boys appear as top-rank funny villains instead of pathetic losers? And who, in your opinion, began this transformation of the Beagles' personalities? Lesser Western Publishing writers who couldn't grasp the idea of a villain being competent and funny at the same time, methinks, are the ones who got that ball rolling. It's too bad that many of today's Duck writers have fallen into the same trap.
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Author
Topic: The Beagle Boys! The TERRIBLE Beagle Boys!
(27 messages)
Gyro Gearloose
The Beagle Boys! The TERRIBLE Beagle Boys!
Message 1 -
2010-09-23 at 14:41:39
Dutch Duckfan Down Under
The Beagle Boys! The TERRIBLE Beagle Boys!
Message 2 -
2010-09-23 at 16:52:19
Good one. For a long time, Danish Beagle Boys stories were shown in the Dutch Donald Duck Extra that showed them as the Terrible, TERRIBLE LOSERS! They even failed at trying to be honest (numerous times). It was just reading "How are they going to fail this time?" It is better now, I think. I don't really recall a story where the Beagle Boys are "actually" evil.
WB
The Beagle Boys! The TERRIBLE Beagle Boys!
Message 3 -
2010-09-23 at 17:12:40
I'd argue that the only "evil" Beagle Boy would be Blackheart Beagle as written by Don Rosa. He's the strongest threat to the ducks that are Beagle related as far as Beagles go outside of Ma Beagle who's not really canon and also only evil up to a point.
I will say that I agree with Gyro and his general assesment of the Beagles - VERY few people have ever gotten the Beagles right beyond Barks. There's a reason why Scrooge was usually scared of them and, while they do fail miserably more often than not, they aren't complete losers. The Vic Lockman/Tony Strobl stories - numerous and many they are - really damaged any credibility the Beagles have in those regards. It's one of the reasons I'm usually half and half on a lot of European stories that use the Beagles. Best one I can think of are some of the Branca's and that Lars Jensen/Marco Rota story with a horde of endless beagles assaulting Killmotor Hill.
I'm glad you pointed out the Van Horn Ducktales stories also as the Beagles in those are crafty while at the same time being utterly hilarious. I like that a lot. I'm also partial to Van Horn's "No Room For Human Error" (if only because I loved Perfecto as well. Shame he only had a one time use...).
I will say that I agree with Gyro and his general assesment of the Beagles - VERY few people have ever gotten the Beagles right beyond Barks. There's a reason why Scrooge was usually scared of them and, while they do fail miserably more often than not, they aren't complete losers. The Vic Lockman/Tony Strobl stories - numerous and many they are - really damaged any credibility the Beagles have in those regards. It's one of the reasons I'm usually half and half on a lot of European stories that use the Beagles. Best one I can think of are some of the Branca's and that Lars Jensen/Marco Rota story with a horde of endless beagles assaulting Killmotor Hill.
I'm glad you pointed out the Van Horn Ducktales stories also as the Beagles in those are crafty while at the same time being utterly hilarious. I like that a lot. I'm also partial to Van Horn's "No Room For Human Error" (if only because I loved Perfecto as well. Shame he only had a one time use...).
Ramapith
The Beagle Boys! The TERRIBLE Beagle Boys!
Message 4 -
2010-09-23 at 18:15:30
Quote from user: Gyro GearlooseCan anyone think of more post-Barks stories in which the Beagle Boys appear as top-rank funny villains instead of pathetic losers?
Two words: Romano Scarpa. His Beagles are quite often clever schemers who, while likable and funny, nevertheless present a very real threat to Scrooge. Stories that Scarpa drew but did not write often continued this tradition for decades.
As for me??I don't mind an occasional story with Beagles as losers, as long as they're not pathetic ("eccentric" is fine, though). I'm rather of the opinion that the Beagle Boys constitute strength in numbers; it's fine to show three or four engaging in a small caper that flops, but at times they should succeed, too; and when a larger gang of them get together (say, six to eight or more), their chances of success get that much higher.
Also, no matter how cheerful the Beagles might be among themselves, I like to see them confront Scrooge in a smugly threatening manner. They're bad guys, and it's a pleasure for them to get Scrooge emotionally on the defensive.
I'm well able to enjoy some Western Publishing and Egmont Beagle Boys stories where the Beagles fail, but I like seeing those balanced by others in which the Beagles succeed or come close to succeeding (in fact, the Western and Egmont examples I've just shown do qualify there, and very nicely).
Scrooge is sharper than the sharpies and cannier than the Can-Can, so there has to be a reason that the Beagles seem "terrible" to him at times!
Two words: Romano Scarpa. His Beagles are quite often clever schemers who, while likable and funny, nevertheless present a very real threat to Scrooge. Stories that Scarpa drew but did not write often continued this tradition for decades.
As for me??I don't mind an occasional story with Beagles as losers, as long as they're not pathetic ("eccentric" is fine, though). I'm rather of the opinion that the Beagle Boys constitute strength in numbers; it's fine to show three or four engaging in a small caper that flops, but at times they should succeed, too; and when a larger gang of them get together (say, six to eight or more), their chances of success get that much higher.
Also, no matter how cheerful the Beagles might be among themselves, I like to see them confront Scrooge in a smugly threatening manner. They're bad guys, and it's a pleasure for them to get Scrooge emotionally on the defensive.
I'm well able to enjoy some Western Publishing and Egmont Beagle Boys stories where the Beagles fail, but I like seeing those balanced by others in which the Beagles succeed or come close to succeeding (in fact, the Western and Egmont examples I've just shown do qualify there, and very nicely).
Scrooge is sharper than the sharpies and cannier than the Can-Can, so there has to be a reason that the Beagles seem "terrible" to him at times!
Gyro Gearloose
The Beagle Boys! The TERRIBLE Beagle Boys!
Message 5 -
2010-09-23 at 19:36:12
"No Room For Human Error" is another favorite of mine, both for its depiction of the Beagles and the character of Perfecto. I really enjoy the way Van Horn draws the Beagles in that story, with their Chesire Cat grins so reminiscent of Barks' Beagles at their best.
Stupid of me to forget Romano Scarpa; Lentils from Babylon and Colossus of the Nile, the only two stories of his I've seen with extended roles for the B-Boys, both depict the villains as highly crafty, coming up with devious and ingenious schemes as they did in the Barks stories.
In my opinion, Barks' Beagles have no personal malice towards Scrooge, but they'd hurt him if he got in their way (see The Giant Robot Robbers, in which a Beagle crashes Scrooge's plane, or The Menehune Mystery, in which a Beagle threatens to throw Scrooge and Donald to the sharks). I recall Don Rosa saying that his Beagles would never hurt Scrooge, but I think this interpretation goes too far, and robs the Beagle Boys of any claim to being formidable opponents of Scrooge--how threatened can you be by a bunch of relatively harmless clowns? I like Rampaith and WB's comments that there must be some reason a tough old bird like Scrooge is scared of the Terrible Beagle Boys.
As I said before, I think the big problem most writers still have with the Beagles is that they find it hard to make a villain function as a menace and still be funny. Charles Dickens could do it with character like Wackford Squeers, Barks could do it with the Beagles, and, of course, Floyd Gottfredson did it successfuly for years with Peg-Leg Pete, an extremely nasty but hilarious figure at the same time.
Stupid of me to forget Romano Scarpa; Lentils from Babylon and Colossus of the Nile, the only two stories of his I've seen with extended roles for the B-Boys, both depict the villains as highly crafty, coming up with devious and ingenious schemes as they did in the Barks stories.
In my opinion, Barks' Beagles have no personal malice towards Scrooge, but they'd hurt him if he got in their way (see The Giant Robot Robbers, in which a Beagle crashes Scrooge's plane, or The Menehune Mystery, in which a Beagle threatens to throw Scrooge and Donald to the sharks). I recall Don Rosa saying that his Beagles would never hurt Scrooge, but I think this interpretation goes too far, and robs the Beagle Boys of any claim to being formidable opponents of Scrooge--how threatened can you be by a bunch of relatively harmless clowns? I like Rampaith and WB's comments that there must be some reason a tough old bird like Scrooge is scared of the Terrible Beagle Boys.
As I said before, I think the big problem most writers still have with the Beagles is that they find it hard to make a villain function as a menace and still be funny. Charles Dickens could do it with character like Wackford Squeers, Barks could do it with the Beagles, and, of course, Floyd Gottfredson did it successfuly for years with Peg-Leg Pete, an extremely nasty but hilarious figure at the same time.
Roger North
The Beagle Boys! The TERRIBLE Beagle Boys!
Message 6 -
2010-09-23 at 19:38:42
I think The Beagle Boys are villains mainly due to the fact that they are poor but it doesn't make things right. They are evil but only in the literal sense.
Sirredknee
The Beagle Boys! The TERRIBLE Beagle Boys!
Message 7 -
2010-09-23 at 21:01:40
Softening the Beagles was necessary, so readers could relate to them when they went solo in 1964. The same had happened to Scrooge before, who thankfully stopped being the mean old scumbag of WDC 124. I have to say I personally love those loser Beagles. I'll get my coat.
GeoX
The Beagle Boys! The TERRIBLE Beagle Boys!
Message 8 -
2010-09-24 at 01:46:32
Good discussion. I'm a big BB fan, and I can't believe that it never even REGISTERED with me that Rosa's story (BB vs MB) doesn't do them justice. I guess I got carried away with the cool/ingenious plotting and the copious fan service. I'll not read THAT story the same way again :-/
Quote from user: Gyro GearlooseIn my opinion, Barks' Beagles have no personal malice towards Scrooge, but they'd hurt him if he got in their way (see The Giant Robot Robbers, in which a Beagle crashes Scrooge's plane, or The Menehune Mystery, in which a Beagle threatens to throw Scrooge and Donald to the sharks).
The Beagles were really only vicious in the early days ("Menehune" and "The Mysterious Stone Ray")--in later stories, it's tempered with goofily endearing enthusiasm. I've said this elsewhere, but I think they actually have kind of a symbiotic relationship with Scrooge--it's more about the thrill of the hunt than the goal itself. I think they'd soon feel rather lost if they actually got away with Scrooge's fortune, and if they gave up altogether I think Scrooge would probably go a little stir-crazy without the occasional enlivening threat.
Quote from user: sirredkneeSoftening the Beagles was necessary, so readers could relate to them when they went solo in 1964.
Leaving aside the fact that "softening"? "making completely hapless," I would say that this is an argument AGAINST letting them go solo than anything else. And seriously, the Beagle Brats? Gag me with a spoon.
Edit: I see that this board won't let me enter a "doesn't-equal" sign. But you get the picture.
Quote from user: Gyro GearlooseIn my opinion, Barks' Beagles have no personal malice towards Scrooge, but they'd hurt him if he got in their way (see The Giant Robot Robbers, in which a Beagle crashes Scrooge's plane, or The Menehune Mystery, in which a Beagle threatens to throw Scrooge and Donald to the sharks).
The Beagles were really only vicious in the early days ("Menehune" and "The Mysterious Stone Ray")--in later stories, it's tempered with goofily endearing enthusiasm. I've said this elsewhere, but I think they actually have kind of a symbiotic relationship with Scrooge--it's more about the thrill of the hunt than the goal itself. I think they'd soon feel rather lost if they actually got away with Scrooge's fortune, and if they gave up altogether I think Scrooge would probably go a little stir-crazy without the occasional enlivening threat.
Quote from user: sirredkneeSoftening the Beagles was necessary, so readers could relate to them when they went solo in 1964.
Leaving aside the fact that "softening"? "making completely hapless," I would say that this is an argument AGAINST letting them go solo than anything else. And seriously, the Beagle Brats? Gag me with a spoon.
Edit: I see that this board won't let me enter a "doesn't-equal" sign. But you get the picture.
Mr. M
The Beagle Boys! The TERRIBLE Beagle Boys!
Message 9 -
2012-08-05 at 19:16:35
Most of Barks die-hard fans will hate me fo this but... Barks oryginal version of the Beagle Boys is propably my least favorite of his creation. I know it's sound odd especially since "Only a Poor old man" is one of my favorite stories ever but I honestly never fond them that interesting and I never liked stories where you can't tell how many Beagles there are. They all just felt like one character who is a crowd at the same time. Ow, their still pretty funny character, I just don't think their are as interesting like Glomgold or Magica who while made less apperances felt somewhat more developed characters.
However love many of Italian Beagle Boys-center stories, where they are a family of loser criminals living in a trailer with their Grandfather. Im also very found of DuckTales version on the Beagle Boys where they actually had diffrent names and personalities.
However love many of Italian Beagle Boys-center stories, where they are a family of loser criminals living in a trailer with their Grandfather. Im also very found of DuckTales version on the Beagle Boys where they actually had diffrent names and personalities.
Lars Jensen
The Beagle Boys! The TERRIBLE Beagle Boys!
Message 10 -
2012-08-05 at 21:03:45
Quote from user: Mr. MI never liked stories where you can't tell how many Beagles there are. They all just felt like one character who is a crowd at the same time.
That's the point of the Barks Beagles, though: if you defeat one opponent, there's another identical opponent to take his place. A never-ending battle. Like fighting an anthill.
That's the point of the Barks Beagles, though: if you defeat one opponent, there's another identical opponent to take his place. A never-ending battle. Like fighting an anthill.
Mr. M
The Beagle Boys! The TERRIBLE Beagle Boys!
Message 11 -
2012-08-05 at 21:36:33
I see you're point. They are a force of nature
Mr. M
The Beagle Boys! The TERRIBLE Beagle Boys!
Message 12 -
2012-09-05 at 14:11:37
Actually while awnsering to a difrent post I got reminded of Bealge Boys "Mickey, Donald and Goofy - The Three Musketeers" movie...
[Short review for people who didn't see it : I find it ok and amusing. The animation is exelent and while it's in spirit of "Mickey Mouse Works"/"House of the mouse" cartoons it dose have some funny gags and cute moments.... The movie however fells like a 20 minutes short stretched to hour running time (well bearly a hour to be honest) - espeicaly the musical numers feel forced if not lazy since they are all just riffs on classical scores by Strauss, Beethoven etc. and I think it would be way more effective as a short like "Prince and the Pauper" or "The Christmas Caroll", or ad least if they where going for a hour of running time they could make the plot less linear... ]
Now while the movie dosen't have much to do with the events of Alexandre Dumas novel (to be honest it dosen't try to be, in fact D'Artagnan, Athos, Aramis and Porthos makes a cameo as Musketeers who inspired Mickey to become one) it dose take place the 17th century France and the Beagle Boys appears as thieves hired by Black/Pegleg Pete for who they are trying to kidnap princes Minnie who's new unexpiriance bodyguards are Mickey, Donald and Goofy (Let the comedy begin!)
We get two twin Beagles (who speaks with strong British acents and vocabulary) and one smaller - referd by his brothers as "Shorty" - Beagle (who talks with "funny" French acent) who is the idiot of the group.
What good about those Bealges - despite the 17th century France seeting... is that their actually threatening and (more or less) smart... well ad least the two "bigger" Beagles. They had few moments of idiocy (especially at the begining) but many scenes show them as cunning (even if they use some very cartoonish tricks to out-smart the heroes) and dangerous sword fighters who actually gaves Mickey, Donald and Goofy quite a challange through out the film.
http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg849/scaled.php?server=849&filename=beagleboys.png&res=landing
Say all you want I actually like the colors...
http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg269/scaled.php?server=269&filename=beagleboys01.png&res=landing
In reactions to Mickeys "une gourde"...
http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg835/scaled.php?server=835&filename=beagleboys02.png&res=landing
Those fight scenes aren't very long but they are very entertaining to watch
http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg267/scaled.php?server=267&filename=beagleboys03.png&res=landing
BTW -> Pegleg Pete actually has a "Peg leg" in this cartoons. It must be like the first time in half of century...
http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg442/scaled.php?server=442&filename=beagleboys05.png&res=landing
Even the smaller one is presented as pretty effective in fighting Donald...
http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg853/scaled.php?server=853&filename=beagleboys06.png&res=landing
Rewatching this movie I like those guys more and more with every scene. They have style...
http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg708/scaled.php?server=708&filename=beagleboys07.png&res=landing
Hum! Come to think about it those Beagles are pretty dark - they are trying to kill defenseless Mickey and Goofy by stabing them or at very least throwing them out the window...
http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg7/scaled.php?server=7&filename=beagleboys04.png&res=landing
But they are a bit lovable as well. Check out this cute moment in Petes "Pit"....
http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg267/scaled.php?server=267&filename=beagleboys08.png&res=landing
Ok, so maybe they aren't so...
http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg31/scaled.php?server=31&filename=beagleboys09.png&res=landing
....HOLLY COW!!!!
http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg20/scaled.php?server=20&filename=beagleboys10.png&res=landing
BTW -> I love the "hair style" they gave Minnie in this movie. Makes her look even more cute...
http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg208/scaled.php?server=208&filename=beagleboys13.png&res=landing
Um... This one make sence in the context...
http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg607/scaled.php?server=607&filename=beagleboys11.png&res=landing
More action...
http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg846/scaled.php?server=846&filename=beagleboys12.png&res=landing
WHAT BLASPHEMY IS THIS...!?
So yhe, despite DuckTales "dumb" Beagles whe had some more very threatening versions as well...
[Short review for people who didn't see it : I find it ok and amusing. The animation is exelent and while it's in spirit of "Mickey Mouse Works"/"House of the mouse" cartoons it dose have some funny gags and cute moments.... The movie however fells like a 20 minutes short stretched to hour running time (well bearly a hour to be honest) - espeicaly the musical numers feel forced if not lazy since they are all just riffs on classical scores by Strauss, Beethoven etc. and I think it would be way more effective as a short like "Prince and the Pauper" or "The Christmas Caroll", or ad least if they where going for a hour of running time they could make the plot less linear... ]
Now while the movie dosen't have much to do with the events of Alexandre Dumas novel (to be honest it dosen't try to be, in fact D'Artagnan, Athos, Aramis and Porthos makes a cameo as Musketeers who inspired Mickey to become one) it dose take place the 17th century France and the Beagle Boys appears as thieves hired by Black/Pegleg Pete for who they are trying to kidnap princes Minnie who's new unexpiriance bodyguards are Mickey, Donald and Goofy (Let the comedy begin!)
We get two twin Beagles (who speaks with strong British acents and vocabulary) and one smaller - referd by his brothers as "Shorty" - Beagle (who talks with "funny" French acent) who is the idiot of the group.
What good about those Bealges - despite the 17th century France seeting... is that their actually threatening and (more or less) smart... well ad least the two "bigger" Beagles. They had few moments of idiocy (especially at the begining) but many scenes show them as cunning (even if they use some very cartoonish tricks to out-smart the heroes) and dangerous sword fighters who actually gaves Mickey, Donald and Goofy quite a challange through out the film.
http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg849/scaled.php?server=849&filename=beagleboys.png&res=landing
Say all you want I actually like the colors...
http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg269/scaled.php?server=269&filename=beagleboys01.png&res=landing
In reactions to Mickeys "une gourde"...
http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg835/scaled.php?server=835&filename=beagleboys02.png&res=landing
Those fight scenes aren't very long but they are very entertaining to watch
http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg267/scaled.php?server=267&filename=beagleboys03.png&res=landing
BTW -> Pegleg Pete actually has a "Peg leg" in this cartoons. It must be like the first time in half of century...
http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg442/scaled.php?server=442&filename=beagleboys05.png&res=landing
Even the smaller one is presented as pretty effective in fighting Donald...
http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg853/scaled.php?server=853&filename=beagleboys06.png&res=landing
Rewatching this movie I like those guys more and more with every scene. They have style...
http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg708/scaled.php?server=708&filename=beagleboys07.png&res=landing
Hum! Come to think about it those Beagles are pretty dark - they are trying to kill defenseless Mickey and Goofy by stabing them or at very least throwing them out the window...
http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg7/scaled.php?server=7&filename=beagleboys04.png&res=landing
But they are a bit lovable as well. Check out this cute moment in Petes "Pit"....
http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg267/scaled.php?server=267&filename=beagleboys08.png&res=landing
Ok, so maybe they aren't so...
http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg31/scaled.php?server=31&filename=beagleboys09.png&res=landing
....HOLLY COW!!!!
http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg20/scaled.php?server=20&filename=beagleboys10.png&res=landing
BTW -> I love the "hair style" they gave Minnie in this movie. Makes her look even more cute...
http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg208/scaled.php?server=208&filename=beagleboys13.png&res=landing
Um... This one make sence in the context...
http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg607/scaled.php?server=607&filename=beagleboys11.png&res=landing
More action...
http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg846/scaled.php?server=846&filename=beagleboys12.png&res=landing
WHAT BLASPHEMY IS THIS...!?
So yhe, despite DuckTales "dumb" Beagles whe had some more very threatening versions as well...
Artemi
The Beagle Boys! The TERRIBLE Beagle Boys!
Message 13 -
2012-09-05 at 17:52:43
I like the Brazilian version of Beagle Boys the most - where they are portrayed as a bunch of losers and retards.
Mr. M
The Beagle Boys! The TERRIBLE Beagle Boys!
Message 14 -
2012-09-07 at 09:59:36
BTW - The version of the Beagle Boys I mentioned above reapear in one of "Kinghtom of Hearts" games.
Check out from 08:27 :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9BNhtdVoFo
Check out from 08:27 :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9BNhtdVoFo
Monochrome
The Beagle Boys! The TERRIBLE Beagle Boys!
Message 15 -
2012-09-10 at 05:39:11
Okay I just have to ask: What's with the different colourings of the Beagle Boys?
As for the topic on hand, I really don't have too much to add that hasn't been already said. I think that each type of beagle boys fit into different situations and others don't and so the personality has to be altered towards the other types. For example, in some stories having an insane amount of Beagle Boys would open up an insane amount of plot holes while in other situations in works perfectly. It also depends for the overall tone that the plot is striving for. So personally, I think it depends on the story for me, but overall, I wish for the Beagle Boys to be a little bit more than complete buffoons but still have that funny charm to them. While I do enjoy stories where the characters have a conditionality in their personalities, I think I myself would be willing to make an exception with the Beagle Boys.
As for the topic on hand, I really don't have too much to add that hasn't been already said. I think that each type of beagle boys fit into different situations and others don't and so the personality has to be altered towards the other types. For example, in some stories having an insane amount of Beagle Boys would open up an insane amount of plot holes while in other situations in works perfectly. It also depends for the overall tone that the plot is striving for. So personally, I think it depends on the story for me, but overall, I wish for the Beagle Boys to be a little bit more than complete buffoons but still have that funny charm to them. While I do enjoy stories where the characters have a conditionality in their personalities, I think I myself would be willing to make an exception with the Beagle Boys.
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