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Topic: Inspiration for det desingn of Barks' golden helmet
(13 messages)
Sigvald
Inspiration for det desingn of Barks' golden helmet
Message 1 -
2013-08-27 at 13:05:31
I am for the time being writing an article about vikings and the viking age in Disney-comics. Now, I am in need for some help. Does any of you have any idea about the where Barks got the inspiration for the design of the golden helmet in the classic "The Golden Helmet" from 1952?
Tightwad
Inspiration for det desingn of Barks' golden helmet
Message 2 -
2013-08-27 at 17:02:35
It's not a particularly innovative design.
Winged helmets in association with norse warriors was a 19th century romantic "invention". You could try to look up norse helmets and compare them with the golden helmet (excluding the wings), but it's still a long-shot. In my personal opinion, it's an arbitrary design, distinguished only by the addition of the "romantic" wings.
Winged helmets in association with norse warriors was a 19th century romantic "invention". You could try to look up norse helmets and compare them with the golden helmet (excluding the wings), but it's still a long-shot. In my personal opinion, it's an arbitrary design, distinguished only by the addition of the "romantic" wings.
Robb_K
Inspiration for det desingn of Barks' golden helmet
Message 3 -
2013-08-27 at 22:46:48
The common cliché from 1800-1980 was that Viking helmets had either horns or wings on them. Current thinking is that Viking helmets had neither, and were plain, like those of The English, Germans and French. The helmet design used by Barks was similar to the cliché, worn by The Valkyries in Wagner's operas.
Timoro
Inspiration for det desingn of Barks' golden helmet
Message 4 -
2013-08-28 at 10:37:40
Rembrant's painting "The Man With The Golden Helmet" comes to my mind nowadays whenever I read this story, but it's probably just because of the name of the painting. There are minor similarities though and Rembrant was one of the favorite painters of Barks. But as already said it is modelled after romanticized version derived from 19th century operas and illustrations.
Hal Foster:
Horsa - chief of the Sea-Rovers (pre-Viking norsemen captain):
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-efIqsEsdIRs/Ufl2uBxe9yI/AAAAAAAACLw/Bf9GJFyhpFU/s1600/PV-12-13-42c.jpg
Timo
Hal Foster:
Horsa - chief of the Sea-Rovers (pre-Viking norsemen captain):
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-efIqsEsdIRs/Ufl2uBxe9yI/AAAAAAAACLw/Bf9GJFyhpFU/s1600/PV-12-13-42c.jpg
Timo
Sigvald
Inspiration for det desingn of Barks' golden helmet
Message 5 -
2013-08-31 at 20:57:05
Thanks to everyone here who have been so helpful!!
Timoro, what story/album/book is your Hal Foster scan taken from?
Timoro, what story/album/book is your Hal Foster scan taken from?
Robb_K
Inspiration for det desingn of Barks' golden helmet
Message 6 -
2013-08-31 at 22:08:13
Quote from user: timoroRembrant's painting "The Man With The Golden Helmet" comes to my mind nowadays whenever I read this story, but it's probably just because of the name of the painting. There are minor similarities though and Rembrant was one of the favorite painters of Barks. But as already said it is modelled after romanticized version derived from 19th century operas and illustrations.
Hal Foster:
Horsa - chief of the Sea-Rovers (pre-Viking norsemen captain):
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-efIqsEsdIRs/Ufl2uBxe9yI/AAAAAAAACLw/Bf9GJFyhpFU/s1600/PV-12-13-42c.jpg
Timo
Actually, Horsa was an Anglo-Saxon (meaning that he was either an Angle(North Frisian) or a Saxon (generic name for the Northwest Germanic tribes from The North Sea Coast between Oosteende (Belgium) and The Angles in Northwest Slesvik(Schleswig) (near The German/Danish border). That means that he was either West Frisian (from Northern Netherlands, or from The Saxon Coast of Northwest Germany. So, he was Northwet Germanic-NOT a Northern Germanic (Scandianavian) or "Norseman", from whence came The Vikings.
The Romano-British writings of the 5th century describe Hengist and Horsa as the leaders of an Anglo-Saxon expedition to the Southeast coast (Kent/southern East Anglia)of Britain to help a Briton warlord in his fight with his local rival. He was an historical personage with a known ethnicity. In any case, historians now think that the Saxons', Angles', Jutes' and Frisians' (along with those of The Vikings) helmets were plain, with no frills, such as metal feathers or horns on them.
Hal Foster:
Horsa - chief of the Sea-Rovers (pre-Viking norsemen captain):
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-efIqsEsdIRs/Ufl2uBxe9yI/AAAAAAAACLw/Bf9GJFyhpFU/s1600/PV-12-13-42c.jpg
Timo
Actually, Horsa was an Anglo-Saxon (meaning that he was either an Angle(North Frisian) or a Saxon (generic name for the Northwest Germanic tribes from The North Sea Coast between Oosteende (Belgium) and The Angles in Northwest Slesvik(Schleswig) (near The German/Danish border). That means that he was either West Frisian (from Northern Netherlands, or from The Saxon Coast of Northwest Germany. So, he was Northwet Germanic-NOT a Northern Germanic (Scandianavian) or "Norseman", from whence came The Vikings.
The Romano-British writings of the 5th century describe Hengist and Horsa as the leaders of an Anglo-Saxon expedition to the Southeast coast (Kent/southern East Anglia)of Britain to help a Briton warlord in his fight with his local rival. He was an historical personage with a known ethnicity. In any case, historians now think that the Saxons', Angles', Jutes' and Frisians' (along with those of The Vikings) helmets were plain, with no frills, such as metal feathers or horns on them.
Arild
Inspiration for det desingn of Barks' golden helmet
Message 7 -
2013-09-01 at 13:11:18
Quote from user: SigvaldTimoro, what story/album/book is your Hal Foster scan taken from?
It's from this blog.
The blog refers to this book.
The stories in the book are also published in Norwegian.
I believe Horsa is in more than one story.
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/4601/msw0.jpg
It's from this blog.
The blog refers to this book.
The stories in the book are also published in Norwegian.
I believe Horsa is in more than one story.
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/4601/msw0.jpg
Robb_K
Inspiration for det desingn of Barks' golden helmet
Message 8 -
2013-09-01 at 15:27:13
I'd bet that Horsa is a Saxon and general Northwest Germanic name, and is also NOT a Scandinavian or Old Norse name. Can any Scandinavians on this thread confirm or deny this for me?
Robb_K
Inspiration for det desingn of Barks' golden helmet
Message 9 -
2013-09-01 at 15:37:23
Horsa is derived from the Old Germanic Hros (meaning Horse). It would mean an anti-social person, a very strong-willed loner. I looked up "Old Norse given names" and "Viking given names", and it is NOT among them. More than likely, it was not his given name at birth, but a moniker thrust upon him, based on his demeanor. The question is whether or not The Vikings would have used that word for "horse" in the 800s to 1000s. I'd guess that their word would have sounded different. Icelandic, which is most similar to Old Norse, uses "hestur". Danish and Norwegian use "Hest", and Swedish very similar. So, The Vikings shouldn't have someone among them called "Horsa". He should have been named "Hestür".
My impression of Hal Foster's "Prince Valient" was that he squeezed together events from a rough spread of about 700 or 800 years' breadth (500 AD -1300 AD) that were portrayed in his comic strip. So. the strip has the feel of almost "complete fantasy" as opposed to that of an "historical novel". One would not want to learn his/her history from such a source.
My impression of Hal Foster's "Prince Valient" was that he squeezed together events from a rough spread of about 700 or 800 years' breadth (500 AD -1300 AD) that were portrayed in his comic strip. So. the strip has the feel of almost "complete fantasy" as opposed to that of an "historical novel". One would not want to learn his/her history from such a source.
Arild
Inspiration for det desingn of Barks' golden helmet
Message 10 -
2013-09-01 at 19:52:27
In old Norse language horse is: hestr or hross.
I don't think Horsa is an old Norse name.
Valiant's viking friend is Boltar. I don't think that is a Norse name either.
http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/2876/v4gf.jpg
I don't think Horsa is an old Norse name.
Valiant's viking friend is Boltar. I don't think that is a Norse name either.
http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/2876/v4gf.jpg
Robb_K
Inspiration for det desingn of Barks' golden helmet
Message 11 -
2013-09-01 at 19:56:46
Quote from user: ArildIn old Norse language horse is: hestr or hross.
I don't think Horsa is an old Norse name.
Valiant's viking friend is Boltar. I don't think that is a Norse name either.
http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/2876/v4gf.jpg
No. I'd guess that the Scandinavian form of that name would be "Balder". I can find no Anglo-Saxon or Old Germanic name called "Boltar". It must have been made up by Foster, as Old Germanic "sounding"? Interesting that Prince Valiant's armour appears as that of the 13th Century, but many of the details and events in the strip are patterned after the 6th-10th Centuries. It's a hodge-podge of Dark Ages and Medieval Northwest European historical and also non-historical elements.
I don't think Horsa is an old Norse name.
Valiant's viking friend is Boltar. I don't think that is a Norse name either.
http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/2876/v4gf.jpg
No. I'd guess that the Scandinavian form of that name would be "Balder". I can find no Anglo-Saxon or Old Germanic name called "Boltar". It must have been made up by Foster, as Old Germanic "sounding"? Interesting that Prince Valiant's armour appears as that of the 13th Century, but many of the details and events in the strip are patterned after the 6th-10th Centuries. It's a hodge-podge of Dark Ages and Medieval Northwest European historical and also non-historical elements.
Sigvald
Inspiration for det desingn of Barks' golden helmet
Message 12 -
2013-09-02 at 16:57:33
Timoro, I have found the actual panel in the only Prince Valiant book I've got. It's volume 7 and is called "Romermuren" (The Roman Wall). This book also includes the panel that inspired the interior of the McDuck Castle in Don Rosa's Lo$ chapter 1 - The Last of the Clan McDuck:
http://duckman.pettho.com/sc_story/valiant.jpg
http://duckman.pettho.com/sc_story/castle.jpg
http://duckman.pettho.com/sc_story/valiant.jpg
http://duckman.pettho.com/sc_story/castle.jpg
Arild
Inspiration for det desingn of Barks' golden helmet
Message 13 -
2013-09-02 at 18:00:53
Quote from user: SigvaldTimoro, I have found the actual panel in the only Prince Valiant book I've got. It's volume 7 and is called "Romermuren" (The Roman Wall).
Yes, and that story is in the Fantagraphic book which the blog refers to: Prince Valiant Volume 3: 1941-1942 (Vol. 3)
Yes, and that story is in the Fantagraphic book which the blog refers to: Prince Valiant Volume 3: 1941-1942 (Vol. 3)
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