ROBERT:
> Why does everybody older than 25,
> especially people like Bob Foster and Don Rosa, hold
> Disney and their comics in such contempt?
I'm not Bob Foster or Don Rosa, but I am slightly (cough! cough!) over 25, so
here's my view on the subject.
First of all, contempt is a very harsh word. Let's just say that overall,
Disney's version of their own comics is not my favorite.
The first thing I disliked was their emphasis on more modern titles, like
Roger Rabbit or Rescue Rangers. Although I keep reading and re-reading my US
Disney comics, I always skip these new titles; of all the stories produced, I
only liked one.
Although this is a matter of peference, I didn't care much for the style of
the new artists that they employed. I didn't like many of the modern,
"bringing Disney comics into the '90s" stories, and I didn't like those weird
stories, like "Goofy Frankenstein". Note that, judging from the letters
columns, there were people who loved all of the above. For some comics, they
commissioned accomplished superhero comics writers to write for Disney comics,
with dubious results. Even when doing more standard stuff, like in Donald Duck
adventures, I think they misjudged things a bit: devoting half of each issue
to Taliaferro strips was a bit too much. Again, there were people who loved
those strips, so this is purely subjective.
I think that what really made people dissatisfied with Disney's comics,
however, is that Disney took a successful series of comics from Gladstone and
turned it into a commercial failure, from which Disney comics never recovered
in the US. Arguably, Disney may have only been partly responsible for this,
but they can't have been completely innocent of it.
Kriton.
-----
"I always believe everything, except on alternate Tuesdays."
-----
Author
Topic: 200605
(88 messages)
Kriton Kyrimis
Disney-Published Comics
Message 61 -
2006-05-16 at 09:32:59
Gary Leach
The Other Leach
Message 62 -
2006-05-16 at 18:03:05
> Well, this doesn't change the fact Susan and you are great
> colorists (that's the name, isn't it? I somehow have a doubt typing
> it).
"Colorists" is exactly right. Thanks, Olivier.
Gary
> colorists (that's the name, isn't it? I somehow have a doubt typing
> it).
"Colorists" is exactly right. Thanks, Olivier.
Gary
John Lustig
Disney Comic stories later paid for by Egmont
Message 63 -
2006-05-16 at 18:53:27
on 5/16/06 3:13 AM, Bob Foster at dcml-request at nafsk.se wrote:
> If the money controllers had just stood behind us and supported us, we might
> have done some memorable, groundbreaking stuff. But, no... they had to squeeze
> us into monetary oblivion. Gladstone operated for years on a handful of
> dedicated and talented people in modest offices in an affordable area
> (Arizona). Disney had about 35 people in some of the most expensive real
> estate in Burbank, with computers (I didn't get one), secretaries (not me),
> and supervisors (I had four). No wonder they couldn't afford to publish
> comics. My favorite quote by one of the semi-suits - "Here at WD Publications,
> we're not building a publishing empire, we're building resumes." They saw
> Disney Comics as a way to prove they could reduce budgets and still get the
> work done, then used that skill to get jobs elsewhere.
>
> David, you also said, "But because Disney Comics, Inc. in Burbank had already
> paid for the scripts, Egmont didn't have to pay for them again."
>
> I'm not so sure that's entirely true. I think Gutenberghus (Egmont) did buy
> the scripts, perhaps at a reduced price, but maybe also as a diplomatic favor
> to Disney. It doesn't make sense to me that the budget conscious folks in
> Burbank would ever simply give anything away without breaking even on the
> expense.
>
Bob, I couldn?t agree with you more about why the philosophy and structure
of Disney management made its comic book line fail. From the beginning, the
organization seemed to be bloated. Worse, there was an attitude that just
because it was Disney that the comics were guaranteed to be big sellers.
As for stories commissioned and purchased by Disney Comics that were later
published by Egmont, I?m about 90 percent positive that I did get paid for
at least one story (maybe two) twice?first by Disney Comics and then later
afterwards by Egmont. I think the justification for the double payment was
that Egmont wanted me to reformat the story (which involved a bit of
re-writing.) All the duck stories I?d done for Disney Comics were three
tiers per page. Egmont wanted all of its stories to be four tiers per page.
Best Wishes,
John Lustig
Sign up for free weekly Last Kiss e-mail comics at www.lastkisscomics.com
> If the money controllers had just stood behind us and supported us, we might
> have done some memorable, groundbreaking stuff. But, no... they had to squeeze
> us into monetary oblivion. Gladstone operated for years on a handful of
> dedicated and talented people in modest offices in an affordable area
> (Arizona). Disney had about 35 people in some of the most expensive real
> estate in Burbank, with computers (I didn't get one), secretaries (not me),
> and supervisors (I had four). No wonder they couldn't afford to publish
> comics. My favorite quote by one of the semi-suits - "Here at WD Publications,
> we're not building a publishing empire, we're building resumes." They saw
> Disney Comics as a way to prove they could reduce budgets and still get the
> work done, then used that skill to get jobs elsewhere.
>
> David, you also said, "But because Disney Comics, Inc. in Burbank had already
> paid for the scripts, Egmont didn't have to pay for them again."
>
> I'm not so sure that's entirely true. I think Gutenberghus (Egmont) did buy
> the scripts, perhaps at a reduced price, but maybe also as a diplomatic favor
> to Disney. It doesn't make sense to me that the budget conscious folks in
> Burbank would ever simply give anything away without breaking even on the
> expense.
>
Bob, I couldn?t agree with you more about why the philosophy and structure
of Disney management made its comic book line fail. From the beginning, the
organization seemed to be bloated. Worse, there was an attitude that just
because it was Disney that the comics were guaranteed to be big sellers.
As for stories commissioned and purchased by Disney Comics that were later
published by Egmont, I?m about 90 percent positive that I did get paid for
at least one story (maybe two) twice?first by Disney Comics and then later
afterwards by Egmont. I think the justification for the double payment was
that Egmont wanted me to reformat the story (which involved a bit of
re-writing.) All the duck stories I?d done for Disney Comics were three
tiers per page. Egmont wanted all of its stories to be four tiers per page.
Best Wishes,
John Lustig
Sign up for free weekly Last Kiss e-mail comics at www.lastkisscomics.com
Jonathan H. Gray
Disney Comics 200th issues
Message 64 -
2006-05-17 at 02:58:49
>From: Marc Newman <marc.newman at comcast.net>
>To: dcml at nafsk.se
>Subject: Disney Comics 200th issues
>Date: Fri, 12 May 2006 20:39:52 -0700
>
>Hi everyone,
>
>I just joined the list tonight and am really looking forward to being
>here. Most of my Disney comics knowledge is of Carl Barks so I'm going
>to be learning a lot about other stuff from you folks.
welcome to this list! it's nice to see another American (assumption?) fan
pop up here as we seem to be few and far between outside of the actual
creators.
>By the way, this came out in today's Scoop newsletter from Gemstone:
>
>http://scoop.diamondgalleries.com/preview/scoop_article.asp?ai=12109&si=122
>
>A nice little piece about different Disney comics throughout the world
>that reached their 200th issue. The first was Topolino in Italy in
>1936--I had no idea!
>
i'm really fond of the anniversary issues myself as I know that we're
usually in for something pretty good. My first encounter with them - while
not a 250th issue deal - was the full print of the Miracle Master by
Gladstone. in (I THINK) 244. I was a little bit dissapointed that Mickey
Mouse 250 ended up being only Bill Wright's "Sinister Sorcerer" when I
finally found it. but considering how much they went all out for that
Miracle Master print I think missing the ball a bit on 250 was justified. :)
For anyone at Gemstone - What's the next major milestone issue coming up
with the various books anyway?
Jonathan Gray
>To: dcml at nafsk.se
>Subject: Disney Comics 200th issues
>Date: Fri, 12 May 2006 20:39:52 -0700
>
>Hi everyone,
>
>I just joined the list tonight and am really looking forward to being
>here. Most of my Disney comics knowledge is of Carl Barks so I'm going
>to be learning a lot about other stuff from you folks.
welcome to this list! it's nice to see another American (assumption?) fan
pop up here as we seem to be few and far between outside of the actual
creators.
>By the way, this came out in today's Scoop newsletter from Gemstone:
>
>http://scoop.diamondgalleries.com/preview/scoop_article.asp?ai=12109&si=122
>
>A nice little piece about different Disney comics throughout the world
>that reached their 200th issue. The first was Topolino in Italy in
>1936--I had no idea!
>
i'm really fond of the anniversary issues myself as I know that we're
usually in for something pretty good. My first encounter with them - while
not a 250th issue deal - was the full print of the Miracle Master by
Gladstone. in (I THINK) 244. I was a little bit dissapointed that Mickey
Mouse 250 ended up being only Bill Wright's "Sinister Sorcerer" when I
finally found it. but considering how much they went all out for that
Miracle Master print I think missing the ball a bit on 250 was justified. :)
For anyone at Gemstone - What's the next major milestone issue coming up
with the various books anyway?
Jonathan Gray
Olaf Moriarty Solstrand
Disney Comics 200th issues
Message 65 -
2006-05-17 at 03:10:29
Jonathan H. Gray <jongraywb at hotmail.com> skreiv Wed, 17 May 2006 01:58:49
+0200
> For anyone at Gemstone - What's the next major milestone issue coming up
> with the various books anyway?
I'm not in Gemstone, but a quick comparing of the big titles' current
numbers and publishing frequencys shows that, if my calculations are
correct and I didn't miss a title, the next one will be Mickey Mouse #300
next spring.
--
Olaf Moriarty Solstrand
+0200
> For anyone at Gemstone - What's the next major milestone issue coming up
> with the various books anyway?
I'm not in Gemstone, but a quick comparing of the big titles' current
numbers and publishing frequencys shows that, if my calculations are
correct and I didn't miss a title, the next one will be Mickey Mouse #300
next spring.
--
Olaf Moriarty Solstrand
Lars Jensen
Pocket books in Holland (+ TNT)
Message 66 -
2006-05-17 at 17:14:57
Harry Fluks wrote:
> Egmont compiles 12 (or maybe 13) pocket books every year.
There are 13 so-called Jumbo books a year. There is also an annual
double-sized "Mammoth book", a hardcover Christmas book and several
theme books. The latter are 448 pages and usually consist exclusively of
stories used in previous Egmont publications, such as the Jumbo books,
the now-cancelled Uncle Scrooge book etc.
> This explains why chapter 1 of the "TNT" series was not used in
> Holland, while other chapters were: pure coincidence.
> (And now we may see TNT chapter 1 after all...)
Any thoughts on whether chapters 4 and 5 will be used?
Derek Smith wrote:
> Donald and Fethry return as TNT agents in "Let's Get Kraken"
> by Jensen (so popular they don't even need to say his first name
> anymore!) [...]
Good thing I wasn't drinking when I read this, or my new computer
would've short-circuited!
Lars
> Egmont compiles 12 (or maybe 13) pocket books every year.
There are 13 so-called Jumbo books a year. There is also an annual
double-sized "Mammoth book", a hardcover Christmas book and several
theme books. The latter are 448 pages and usually consist exclusively of
stories used in previous Egmont publications, such as the Jumbo books,
the now-cancelled Uncle Scrooge book etc.
> This explains why chapter 1 of the "TNT" series was not used in
> Holland, while other chapters were: pure coincidence.
> (And now we may see TNT chapter 1 after all...)
Any thoughts on whether chapters 4 and 5 will be used?
Derek Smith wrote:
> Donald and Fethry return as TNT agents in "Let's Get Kraken"
> by Jensen (so popular they don't even need to say his first name
> anymore!) [...]
Good thing I wasn't drinking when I read this, or my new computer
would've short-circuited!
Lars
Lars Jensen
"Plot paid by Burbank" D-stories...
Message 67 -
2006-05-17 at 17:24:23
Bob Foster wrote:
> I recall another story notion based on a Swing Music orchestra contest
> involving a symphony-sized gathering of Beagle Boys entitled "Boogie
> Woogie Beagle Boys," but I don't know what happened with that.
There's a D-coded story with that name in Inducks
(http://coa.inducks.org/story.php/x/D+91xxxc), so perhaps Egmont
picked up the story you recall from Disney Comics -- and then later
shelved it.
> Finally - Hello to Flemming Andersen! Still playing the drums?
Flemming tells me he unfortunately is too busy these days to play drums
as much as he'd like.
Lars
> I recall another story notion based on a Swing Music orchestra contest
> involving a symphony-sized gathering of Beagle Boys entitled "Boogie
> Woogie Beagle Boys," but I don't know what happened with that.
There's a D-coded story with that name in Inducks
(http://coa.inducks.org/story.php/x/D+91xxxc), so perhaps Egmont
picked up the story you recall from Disney Comics -- and then later
shelved it.
> Finally - Hello to Flemming Andersen! Still playing the drums?
Flemming tells me he unfortunately is too busy these days to play drums
as much as he'd like.
Lars
Jonathan H. Gray
Disney Comics
Message 68 -
2006-05-17 at 23:31:18
replying to several emails at once to save time:
>>>>Huck Akin's "The Oak Island Treasure," a Scrooge graphic novel
>announced by Disney (in 1991? I don't have my records here), was also
revived at Egmont, but shelved and never completed.
> Yeah, that jogged my memory. I remember suggesting to the sales and
marketing wizards that long stories would be a good thing to do. Maybe run
them
initially in several issues of one of the titles, then reprint the
compilation in
hardback book form. I think some of them ran about 96 - 100 pages, but these
were fully fleshed out stories with great plots, sub-plots and tangential
character exposition. I'd forgotten about Huck Akin's "Oak Island Treasure."
I
remember he did a ton of research and came in with an exciting plot outline
that just had to be done.
That sounds really interesting to be honest. i would have been all over
something like that in a second. Its really a shame that its probably
sitting somewhere on a shelf in limbo. =\ For anyone in the know, who was
slated to draw it? I suppose the idea of bringing it out of limbo and
possibly reviving it for the prestige Scrooge books is out of order at this
time and date. Ah well... :(
the idea of Disney comics graphic novels - both original material and
reprint material - is actually a very ideal one IMO (and maybe more cost
effective than the old school oversized album prints in the long run). I've
seen a scant few bookstores that have already done this with the Prestige
books i.e. stacking them alongside graphic novels and whatnot. Thats why I'm
really hoping that the Treasures books and the DuckTales books will work in
the long run, so we can get more graphic novel style Disney material out in
the open. Who knows, maybe someday we can have long style original stories
printed in graphic novels here in the states again...
>Pat McGreal did one involving Hawaiian mythology that
I did see in print.
Really? what was the name of the story.
>I recall another story notion based on a Swing Music
orchestra contest involving a symphony-sized gathering of Beagle Boys
entitled
"Boogie Woogie Beagle Boys," but I don't know what happened with that.
Ha! That sounds like fun as well. :D
> I think the Disney "implosion" was more of a 1992 event and was one of
>the
things that motivated my departure.
As one of the disney fans who was introduced to the books during your tenure
I was wondering where you had went after the line crumbled. :(
> As for "...so they could no longer afford to have the stories
drawn..." good
grief! If the money controllers had just stood behind us and supported us,
we might have done some memorable, groundbreaking stuff. But, no... they
had
to squeeze us into monetary oblivion.
i've come to the conclusion in my very very *very* small time in the comic
book industry that its the corporate executive type that almost always kills
comic books if only because they don't seem to understand simple things we
in the real world like to call "common sense". Things that actually do make
sense are often "far too much like right" to go on ahead with. The worst
however comes from those corporate power happy types who micromanage the
creative process to insanely minute details, thus killing potentially
brilliant ideas before they can really even come to conception. Sad really.
=\
>Gladstone operated for years on a
handful of dedicated and talented people in modest offices in an
affordable area
(Arizona). Disney had about 35 people in some of the most expensive real
estate
in Burbank, with computers (I didn't get one), secretaries (not me), and
supervisors (I had four).
And I think thats part of whats made Gemstone/Gladstone so successful: A
small close knit group of people who love what they do and aren't busy being
inflated on thier own egos. you don't have to modernize everything or change
the formula to everything to make it work. Sometimes if you're just genuine
about what you do and you do it RIGHT it shows and pays off. Even worse than
the oft-maligned Disney run, compare what Marvel Comics did to the Disney
Afternoon characters as opposed to what Disney did to the DA characters.
They turned the more interesting modern Disney characters into regurgitated
kiddie pap. If they'd gotten thier hands on the classic characters they'd
have probably maimed them into something unrocgnizable. Thankfully (if I
remember correctly) its a small blessing that Gladstone II had not quite
folded yet so they still had the classics liscence. My guess is that they
(Marvel) probably were trying to emulate DC's Looney Tunes/Scooby Doo line
but had no clue what they were doing (and it really showed too). Honestly i
think that the very short lived Marvel/Disney series did more damage to that
specific set of characters than the Disney company could have ever done. =\
>No wonder they couldn't afford to publish comics. My
favorite quote by one of the semi-suits - "Here at WD Publications,
we're not
building a publishing empire, we're building resumes." They saw Disney
Comics as a way to prove they could reduce budgets and still get the work
done,
then used that skill to get jobs elsewhere.
typical suits in action. =\
> Hey, I'm just really curious here what the deal was
with the Disney-published comics circa 1990. As this
forum and others have demonstrated, there is a lot of
resentment, anger, and generally unhappy feelings
about Disney publishing.
I think a lot of it stems from two major things:
If you're a fan of the classic characters (for fun, let's call them Pre-80's
BGB - Before Gummi Bears ^__^), and an old school Disney fan - it really
does look as if they totally raked Gladstone over the coals. Here's this
small close company (Gladstone I) that basically revived the Disney liscence
from limbo all on thier own (not an easy feat). Disney sees this success,
says "Hey, we can do this ourselves and get more of a cut on this revenue!"
takes it, and tries to change the formula entirely (going back to "if it
aint broke don't fix it") - Goofy barely appeared as Goofy in his own book,
following on the heels of Gottfredson and Scarpa made Disne'ys "modernized
Mickey" look like bunk. And at first everything just came out garish. So
Disney realizes that maybe they bit off more than they can chew "imploding"
all books into 3 and shelving all the modern characters into 1 magazine
book. This fixes things temporarily but it still doesnt work. Disney then
tries to give the people what they want to some degree (what should have
been done at first) while still doing thier own thing. While they succeed in
many areas, ultimately they fail. Disney realizes they cant do it anymore,
and hands back over the semi-battered remains of the liscence back to the
company that originally made it work (Gladstone II). But the damage done to
the liscence is too much. Without a steady readership, most of the fan base
burnt out and wondering where the other characters are, and the industry
having changed tremendously since they'd started out - small company folds.
Then the entire line folds. Fast forward to reboot of line: take two
(Gemstone II) in which they must start all over again at rebuilding what
they once had from scratch.
Now if you're a fan of the Modern characters (Post 80's AGB - After Gummi
Bears ^__^) and new school Disney fan you got screwed over moreso. For the
most part, outside of the ever popular DuckTales, Gladstone didnt really
have much to do with the modern characters. Wuzzles had a few entries in
early G1 Comics and Stories, Gummi Bears was nowhere to be seen, and Pooh
Bear was always more of a classic character than a modern one depending on
your preference. So the INITIAL Disney line dealing with the "Disney
Afternoon" characters was a GODSEND. But it was inherently flawed. Disney
relied on Studio artists to get the bulk of thier work done on classics and
modern: specifically the oft-maligned Jaime Diaz studios. Some of them could
not do proper ducks and mice to save thier lives, and outside of perhaps
Cosme Quartieri on Duck Tales (who is a personal favorite of mine), the
Saavedra's on Rescue Rangers, and I know I'm forgetting one other whom I did
like - the majority of the Jaime Diaz studio artists were kinda crappy. =\
For things that were not studio work (such as Mickey Mouse or Roger Rabbit)
they expirimented with industry professionals who'd done superhero comics,
such as Marv Wolfman of Teen Titans doing the first 7 issue arc story for
Duck Tales (I still say it is a fact that The Gold Odyssey was 10 times
better and a hell of lot more readable and coherent than the very disjointed
"Scrooge's Quest" ever was - just cause Wolfman wrote it didnt make it any
good...) or Kurt Busiek doing an issue of Mickey Mouse or Sparky Moore on
Roger Rabbit. They also introduced the concept of overarching story arcs to
Disney comics (failing badly on Mickey Mouse but IMO succeeding very well
with Rescue Rangers which was, I think, a very strong book - I'd love to see
parts of that collected some day). And here is where the problem here came
in: basically a huge clash with the classic material. With the new material
it was OK to try out new things without stepping on what came before it, but
with the old material classic fans seemed a bit enraged and jaded that the
stuff that had been PROVEN to sell was being virtually ignored (just look at
the various Mickey Mouse and Goofy Adventures letter columns) .Then came the
implosion and all the modern characters were shuffled rather haphazardly
into the Disney Adventures books. Here went all this potential for new
characters and good storylines shunted into the back of a magazine that - as
time went on - devoted less and less space to then (now you can barely find
ANY actual Disney characters in DA). When the Disney line folded, Gladstone
got the classics back, but the DA characters went to Marvel where they took
good attempts at moden characters and turned them into (as I stated earlier)
"marvelous examples of vomitous kiddie pap".
Outside of DuckTales (and what seems to be a recent resurgence of Launchpad)
- all hopes of seeing the modern characters get the same respect that the
classics vanished into thin air. Here is an entire gamut of fun characters
that intoduced many modern fans to the classics, that will never get a
chance to be the next Scamps, Bucky Bugs, Chip and Dale, or 'Lil Bad Wolfs.
and you cant even use Comics and Stories - what has always been the variety
showcase book - to showcase these characters because the liscences for said
characters cant be obtained by the people who HAVE done the classic
characters right.
If you're old you're bitter at them. If you're new you're bitter at them. If
you're a creator you're bitter at them. long story short: EVERYBODY BOT GOT
SCREWED AND EVERYBODY'S BITTER! YAY, LETS HAVE A COOKIE!!! :D :D :D :D
>Don Rosa also once wrote that he only did
"The Money Pit" (the story in the first Disney issue
of "Donald Duck Adventures") as a goodwill gesture.
considering the tone of this whole conversation and whats been said about
Disney by people in the know, maybe a title such as "The Money Pit" ended up
actually being more of a jab than anyone might have guessed... ;)
> It's funny, because I was introduced to Disney
character comics in 1990 with the beginning of this
run, and I thought they were fantastic. Good paper,
good coloring, great stories (so I thought, anyway).
Ditto. I like some of what they did and dont think all of it was bad.
Without them I wouldnt know who Carl Barks was or why DuckTales was so
different. =\
They were almost completely responsible for the
appreciation I currently hold for the comics of Donald
Duck, Uncle Scrooge, and so on.
its like that for many. Surprisingly, most people I know still miss the old
stuff and are under the crazy assumption that the line is still gone. It
takes time to rebuild a fan base that was pretty much scattered to the
winds. =\
Jonathan H. Gray
>>>>Huck Akin's "The Oak Island Treasure," a Scrooge graphic novel
>announced by Disney (in 1991? I don't have my records here), was also
revived at Egmont, but shelved and never completed.
> Yeah, that jogged my memory. I remember suggesting to the sales and
marketing wizards that long stories would be a good thing to do. Maybe run
them
initially in several issues of one of the titles, then reprint the
compilation in
hardback book form. I think some of them ran about 96 - 100 pages, but these
were fully fleshed out stories with great plots, sub-plots and tangential
character exposition. I'd forgotten about Huck Akin's "Oak Island Treasure."
I
remember he did a ton of research and came in with an exciting plot outline
that just had to be done.
That sounds really interesting to be honest. i would have been all over
something like that in a second. Its really a shame that its probably
sitting somewhere on a shelf in limbo. =\ For anyone in the know, who was
slated to draw it? I suppose the idea of bringing it out of limbo and
possibly reviving it for the prestige Scrooge books is out of order at this
time and date. Ah well... :(
the idea of Disney comics graphic novels - both original material and
reprint material - is actually a very ideal one IMO (and maybe more cost
effective than the old school oversized album prints in the long run). I've
seen a scant few bookstores that have already done this with the Prestige
books i.e. stacking them alongside graphic novels and whatnot. Thats why I'm
really hoping that the Treasures books and the DuckTales books will work in
the long run, so we can get more graphic novel style Disney material out in
the open. Who knows, maybe someday we can have long style original stories
printed in graphic novels here in the states again...
>Pat McGreal did one involving Hawaiian mythology that
I did see in print.
Really? what was the name of the story.
>I recall another story notion based on a Swing Music
orchestra contest involving a symphony-sized gathering of Beagle Boys
entitled
"Boogie Woogie Beagle Boys," but I don't know what happened with that.
Ha! That sounds like fun as well. :D
> I think the Disney "implosion" was more of a 1992 event and was one of
>the
things that motivated my departure.
As one of the disney fans who was introduced to the books during your tenure
I was wondering where you had went after the line crumbled. :(
> As for "...so they could no longer afford to have the stories
drawn..." good
grief! If the money controllers had just stood behind us and supported us,
we might have done some memorable, groundbreaking stuff. But, no... they
had
to squeeze us into monetary oblivion.
i've come to the conclusion in my very very *very* small time in the comic
book industry that its the corporate executive type that almost always kills
comic books if only because they don't seem to understand simple things we
in the real world like to call "common sense". Things that actually do make
sense are often "far too much like right" to go on ahead with. The worst
however comes from those corporate power happy types who micromanage the
creative process to insanely minute details, thus killing potentially
brilliant ideas before they can really even come to conception. Sad really.
=\
>Gladstone operated for years on a
handful of dedicated and talented people in modest offices in an
affordable area
(Arizona). Disney had about 35 people in some of the most expensive real
estate
in Burbank, with computers (I didn't get one), secretaries (not me), and
supervisors (I had four).
And I think thats part of whats made Gemstone/Gladstone so successful: A
small close knit group of people who love what they do and aren't busy being
inflated on thier own egos. you don't have to modernize everything or change
the formula to everything to make it work. Sometimes if you're just genuine
about what you do and you do it RIGHT it shows and pays off. Even worse than
the oft-maligned Disney run, compare what Marvel Comics did to the Disney
Afternoon characters as opposed to what Disney did to the DA characters.
They turned the more interesting modern Disney characters into regurgitated
kiddie pap. If they'd gotten thier hands on the classic characters they'd
have probably maimed them into something unrocgnizable. Thankfully (if I
remember correctly) its a small blessing that Gladstone II had not quite
folded yet so they still had the classics liscence. My guess is that they
(Marvel) probably were trying to emulate DC's Looney Tunes/Scooby Doo line
but had no clue what they were doing (and it really showed too). Honestly i
think that the very short lived Marvel/Disney series did more damage to that
specific set of characters than the Disney company could have ever done. =\
>No wonder they couldn't afford to publish comics. My
favorite quote by one of the semi-suits - "Here at WD Publications,
we're not
building a publishing empire, we're building resumes." They saw Disney
Comics as a way to prove they could reduce budgets and still get the work
done,
then used that skill to get jobs elsewhere.
typical suits in action. =\
> Hey, I'm just really curious here what the deal was
with the Disney-published comics circa 1990. As this
forum and others have demonstrated, there is a lot of
resentment, anger, and generally unhappy feelings
about Disney publishing.
I think a lot of it stems from two major things:
If you're a fan of the classic characters (for fun, let's call them Pre-80's
BGB - Before Gummi Bears ^__^), and an old school Disney fan - it really
does look as if they totally raked Gladstone over the coals. Here's this
small close company (Gladstone I) that basically revived the Disney liscence
from limbo all on thier own (not an easy feat). Disney sees this success,
says "Hey, we can do this ourselves and get more of a cut on this revenue!"
takes it, and tries to change the formula entirely (going back to "if it
aint broke don't fix it") - Goofy barely appeared as Goofy in his own book,
following on the heels of Gottfredson and Scarpa made Disne'ys "modernized
Mickey" look like bunk. And at first everything just came out garish. So
Disney realizes that maybe they bit off more than they can chew "imploding"
all books into 3 and shelving all the modern characters into 1 magazine
book. This fixes things temporarily but it still doesnt work. Disney then
tries to give the people what they want to some degree (what should have
been done at first) while still doing thier own thing. While they succeed in
many areas, ultimately they fail. Disney realizes they cant do it anymore,
and hands back over the semi-battered remains of the liscence back to the
company that originally made it work (Gladstone II). But the damage done to
the liscence is too much. Without a steady readership, most of the fan base
burnt out and wondering where the other characters are, and the industry
having changed tremendously since they'd started out - small company folds.
Then the entire line folds. Fast forward to reboot of line: take two
(Gemstone II) in which they must start all over again at rebuilding what
they once had from scratch.
Now if you're a fan of the Modern characters (Post 80's AGB - After Gummi
Bears ^__^) and new school Disney fan you got screwed over moreso. For the
most part, outside of the ever popular DuckTales, Gladstone didnt really
have much to do with the modern characters. Wuzzles had a few entries in
early G1 Comics and Stories, Gummi Bears was nowhere to be seen, and Pooh
Bear was always more of a classic character than a modern one depending on
your preference. So the INITIAL Disney line dealing with the "Disney
Afternoon" characters was a GODSEND. But it was inherently flawed. Disney
relied on Studio artists to get the bulk of thier work done on classics and
modern: specifically the oft-maligned Jaime Diaz studios. Some of them could
not do proper ducks and mice to save thier lives, and outside of perhaps
Cosme Quartieri on Duck Tales (who is a personal favorite of mine), the
Saavedra's on Rescue Rangers, and I know I'm forgetting one other whom I did
like - the majority of the Jaime Diaz studio artists were kinda crappy. =\
For things that were not studio work (such as Mickey Mouse or Roger Rabbit)
they expirimented with industry professionals who'd done superhero comics,
such as Marv Wolfman of Teen Titans doing the first 7 issue arc story for
Duck Tales (I still say it is a fact that The Gold Odyssey was 10 times
better and a hell of lot more readable and coherent than the very disjointed
"Scrooge's Quest" ever was - just cause Wolfman wrote it didnt make it any
good...) or Kurt Busiek doing an issue of Mickey Mouse or Sparky Moore on
Roger Rabbit. They also introduced the concept of overarching story arcs to
Disney comics (failing badly on Mickey Mouse but IMO succeeding very well
with Rescue Rangers which was, I think, a very strong book - I'd love to see
parts of that collected some day). And here is where the problem here came
in: basically a huge clash with the classic material. With the new material
it was OK to try out new things without stepping on what came before it, but
with the old material classic fans seemed a bit enraged and jaded that the
stuff that had been PROVEN to sell was being virtually ignored (just look at
the various Mickey Mouse and Goofy Adventures letter columns) .Then came the
implosion and all the modern characters were shuffled rather haphazardly
into the Disney Adventures books. Here went all this potential for new
characters and good storylines shunted into the back of a magazine that - as
time went on - devoted less and less space to then (now you can barely find
ANY actual Disney characters in DA). When the Disney line folded, Gladstone
got the classics back, but the DA characters went to Marvel where they took
good attempts at moden characters and turned them into (as I stated earlier)
"marvelous examples of vomitous kiddie pap".
Outside of DuckTales (and what seems to be a recent resurgence of Launchpad)
- all hopes of seeing the modern characters get the same respect that the
classics vanished into thin air. Here is an entire gamut of fun characters
that intoduced many modern fans to the classics, that will never get a
chance to be the next Scamps, Bucky Bugs, Chip and Dale, or 'Lil Bad Wolfs.
and you cant even use Comics and Stories - what has always been the variety
showcase book - to showcase these characters because the liscences for said
characters cant be obtained by the people who HAVE done the classic
characters right.
If you're old you're bitter at them. If you're new you're bitter at them. If
you're a creator you're bitter at them. long story short: EVERYBODY BOT GOT
SCREWED AND EVERYBODY'S BITTER! YAY, LETS HAVE A COOKIE!!! :D :D :D :D
>Don Rosa also once wrote that he only did
"The Money Pit" (the story in the first Disney issue
of "Donald Duck Adventures") as a goodwill gesture.
considering the tone of this whole conversation and whats been said about
Disney by people in the know, maybe a title such as "The Money Pit" ended up
actually being more of a jab than anyone might have guessed... ;)
> It's funny, because I was introduced to Disney
character comics in 1990 with the beginning of this
run, and I thought they were fantastic. Good paper,
good coloring, great stories (so I thought, anyway).
Ditto. I like some of what they did and dont think all of it was bad.
Without them I wouldnt know who Carl Barks was or why DuckTales was so
different. =\
They were almost completely responsible for the
appreciation I currently hold for the comics of Donald
Duck, Uncle Scrooge, and so on.
its like that for many. Surprisingly, most people I know still miss the old
stuff and are under the crazy assumption that the line is still gone. It
takes time to rebuild a fan base that was pretty much scattered to the
winds. =\
Jonathan H. Gray
Marvinw
The Gremlins graphic novel will be reprinted
Message 69 -
2006-05-18 at 21:18:10
In 1943 the Disney Studio produced a book with beautiful full page color drawings including the Gremlin characters. Never reprinted until now, the original books in good condition are often sold for more than $1000.
Dark Horse Comics has announced publication and they are already up for pre-sale on Amazon (I don't know if Gemstone or Egmont passed up the opportunity to make the reprint!).
After the book, the various gremlins then became classic Disney comic characters with their appearance in Walt Disney Comics and Stories Nos. 31 thru 44 in standard comic book panel stories in the first Western Printing series.
Most of the comics were drawn by Walter Kelly, later of Pogo fame. Many of these comic book stories reappeared in the Gladstone I series.
Marvin Winitz
Dark Horse Comics has announced publication and they are already up for pre-sale on Amazon (I don't know if Gemstone or Egmont passed up the opportunity to make the reprint!).
After the book, the various gremlins then became classic Disney comic characters with their appearance in Walt Disney Comics and Stories Nos. 31 thru 44 in standard comic book panel stories in the first Western Printing series.
Most of the comics were drawn by Walter Kelly, later of Pogo fame. Many of these comic book stories reappeared in the Gladstone I series.
Marvin Winitz
Jonathan H. Gray
Disney-published Comics
Message 70 -
2006-05-19 at 01:40:19
replying to several emails at once to save time:
>>>>>Huck Akin's "The Oak Island Treasure," a Scrooge graphic novel
>
>>announced by Disney (in 1991? I don't have my records here), was also
>revived at Egmont, but shelved and never completed.
>
>> Yeah, that jogged my memory. I remember suggesting to the sales and
>marketing wizards that long stories would be a good thing to do. Maybe run
>them
>initially in several issues of one of the titles, then reprint the
>compilation in
>hardback book form. I think some of them ran about 96 - 100 pages, but
>these
>were fully fleshed out stories with great plots, sub-plots and tangential
>character exposition. I'd forgotten about Huck Akin's "Oak Island
>Treasure." I
>remember he did a ton of research and came in with an exciting plot outline
>that just had to be done.
>
That sounds really interesting to be honest. i would have been all over
something like that in a second. Its really a shame that its probably
sitting somewhere on a shelf in limbo. =\ For anyone in the know, who was
slated to draw it? I suppose the idea of bringing it
out of limbo and possibly reviving it for the prestige Scrooge books is out
of order at this time and date. Ah well... :(
the idea of Disney comics graphic novels - both original material and
reprint material - is actually a very ideal one IMO (and maybe more cost
effective than the old school oversized album prints in the long run). I've
seen a scant few bookstores that have already done this with the Prestige
books i.e. stacking them alongside graphic novels and whatnot. Thats why I'm
really hoping that the Treasures books and the DuckTales books will work in
the long run, so we can get more graphic novel style Disney material out in
the open. Who knows, maybe someday we can have long style original stories
printed in graphic novels here in the states again...
>
>>Pat McGreal did one involving Hawaiian mythology that
> I did see in print.
Really? what was the name of the story.
>>I recall another story notion based on a Swing Music
> orchestra contest involving a symphony-sized gathering of Beagle Boys
>entitled
>"Boogie Woogie Beagle Boys," but I don't know what happened with that.
Ha! That sounds like fun as well. :D
>> I think the Disney "implosion" was more of a 1992 event and was one
>>of the
>things that motivated my departure.
As one of the disney fans who was introduced to the books during your tenure
I was wondering where you had went after the line crumbled.You were IMO one
of the only really good editors there. :(
> > As for "...so they could no longer afford to have the stories
>drawn..." good
>grief! If the money controllers had just stood behind us and supported us,
>we might have done some memorable, groundbreaking stuff. But, no... they
>had
>to squeeze us into monetary oblivion.
i've come to the conclusion in my very very *very* small time in the comic
book industry that its the corporate executive type that almost always kills
comic books if only because they don't seem to understand simple things we
in the real world like to call "common sense". Things that actually do make
sense are often "far too much like right" to go on ahead with. The worst
however comes from those corporate power happy types who micromanage the
creative process to insanely minute details, thus killing potentially
brilliant ideas before they can really even come to conception. Sad really.
=\
>>Gladstone operated for years on a
> handful of dedicated and talented people in modest offices in an
>affordable area
>(Arizona). Disney had about 35 people in some of the most expensive real
>estate
>in Burbank, with computers (I didn't get one), secretaries (not me), and
>supervisors (I had four).
And I think thats part of whats made Gemstone/Gladstone so successful: A
small close knit group of people who love what they do and aren't busy being
inflated on thier own egos. you don't have to modernize everything or change
the formula to everything to make it work. Sometimes if you're just genuine
about what you do and you do it RIGHT it shows and pays off. Even worse than
the oft-maligned Disney run, compare what Marvel Comics did to the Disney
Afternoon characters as opposed to what Disney did to the DA characters.
They turned the more interesting modern Disney characters into
regurgitated kiddie pap. If they'd gotten thier hands on the classic
characters they'd have probably maimed them into something unrocgnizable.
Thankfully (if I remember correctly) its a small blessing that Gladstone II
had not quite folded yet so they still had the classics liscence. My guess
is that they (Marvel) probably were trying to emulate DC's Looney
Tunes/Scooby Doo line but had no clue what they were doing (and it really
showed too). Honestly i think that the very short lived Marvel/Disney series
did more damage to that specific set of characters than the Disney company
could have ever done. =\
>>No wonder they couldn't afford to publish comics. My
> favorite quote by one of the semi-suits - "Here at WD Publications,
>we're not
>building a publishing empire, we're building resumes." They saw Disney
>Comics as a way to prove they could reduce budgets and still get the work
>done,
>then used that skill to get jobs elsewhere.
typical suits in action. =\
> > Hey, I'm just really curious here what the deal was
>with the Disney-published comics circa 1990. As this
>forum and others have demonstrated, there is a lot of
>resentment, anger, and generally unhappy feelings
>about Disney publishing.
I think a lot of it stems from two major things:
If you're a fan of the classic characters (for fun, let's call them Pre-80's
BGB - Before Gummi Bears ^__^), and an old school Disney fan - it really
does look as if they totally raked Gladstone over the coals. Here's this
small close company (Gladstone I) that basically revived the Disney liscence
from limbo all on thier own (not an easy feat). Disney sees this success,
says "Hey, we can do this ourselves and get more of a cut on this revenue!"
takes it, and tries to change the formula entirely (going back to "if it
aint
broke don't fix it") - Goofy barely appeared as Goofy in his own book,
following on the heels of Gottfredson and Scarpa made Disne'ys "modernized
Mickey" look like bunk. And at first everything just came out garish. So
Disney realizes that maybe they bit off more than they can chew "imploding"
all books into 3 and shelving all the modern characters into 1 magazine
book. This fixes things temporarily but it still doesnt work. Disney then
tries to give the people what they want to some degree (what should have
been done at first) while still doing thier own thing. While they succeed in
many areas, ultimately they fail. Disney realizes they cant do it anymore,
and hands back over the semi-battered remains of the liscence back to the
company that originally made it work (Gladstone II). But the damage done to
the liscence is too much. Without a steady readership, most of the fan base
burnt out and wondering where the other characters are, and the industry
having changed tremendously since they'd started out - small company folds.
Then the entire line folds. Fast forward to reboot of line: take two
(Gemstone II) in which they must start all over again at rebuilding what
they once had from scratch.
Now if you're a fan of the Modern characters (Post 80's AGB - After Gummi
Bears ^__^) and new school Disney fan you got screwed over moreso. For the
most part, outside of the ever popular DuckTales, Gladstone didnt really
have much to do with the modern characters. Wuzzles had a few entries in
early G1 Comics and Stories, Gummi
Bears was nowhere to be seen, and Pooh Bear was always more of a classic
character than a modern one depending on your preference. So the INITIAL
Disney line dealing with the "Disney Afternoon" characters was a GODSEND.
But it was inherently flawed. Disney relied on Studio artists to get the
bulk of thier work done on classics and modern: specifically the
oft-maligned Jaime Diaz studios. Some of them could not do proper ducks and
mice to save thier lives, and outside of perhaps Cosme Quartieri on Duck
Tales (who is a personal favorite of mine), the Saavedra's on Rescue
Rangers, and I know I'm forgetting one other whom I did like - the majority
of the Jaime Diaz studio artists were pretty crappy. =\ For things that were
not studio work (such as Mickey Mouse or Roger
Rabbit) they expirimented with industry professionals who'd done superhero
comics, such as Marv Wolfman of Teen Titans doing the first 7 issue arc
story for Duck Tales (I still say it is a fact that The Gold Odyssey was 10
times better and a hell of lot more readable and coherent than the very
disjointed "Scrooge's Quest" ever was - just cause Wolfman wrote it didnt
make it any good...) or Kurt Busiek doing an issue of Mickey Mouse or Sparky
Moore on Roger Rabbit. They also introduced the concept of overarching story
arcs to Disney comics: failing badly on Mickey Mouse but IMO succeeding
somewhat with Rescue Rangers which was, I think, one of the stronger books
("For The Love of Cheese" is an amazingly good story). And here is where
the problem here came in: basically a huge clash with the classic material.
With the new material it was OK to try out new things without stepping on
what came before it, but with the old material classic fans seemed a bit
enraged and jaded that the stuff that had been PROVEN to sell was being
virtually ignored (just look at the various Mickey Mouse and Goofy
Adventures letter columns) .Then came the implosion and all the modern
characters were shuffled rather haphazardly into the Disney Adventures
books. And with that shuffling went went much of the story quality as well.
Some of the DA stories are good (a few of the earlier ones really stand out
and shine ? The Darkwing Duck ?Fluffy? trilogy, A few early Duck Tales
stories, The Legend Of The Chaos God crossover, Return to Blaggard Castle
for instance) but the further you go, the worse they get. Here went all this
potential for new characters and good storylines shunted into the back of a
magazine that - as time went on - devoted less and less space to then (now
you can barely find ANY actual Disney characters in DA). When the Disney
line folded, Gladstone got the classics back, but the DA characters went to
Marvel where they took good attempts at moden characters that had already
been dumbed down and turned them into (as I stated earlier) "marvelous
examples of vomitous kiddie pap".
Outside of DuckTales (and what seems to be a recent resurgence of Launchpad)
- all hopes of seeing the modern characters get the same respect that the
classics vanished into thin air. Here is an entire gamut of fun characters
that intoduced many modern fans to the classics, that will never get a
chance to be the next Scamps, Bucky Bugs, Chip and Dale, or 'Lil Bad Wolfs.
and you cant even use Comics and Stories - what has always been the variety
showcase book - to showcase these characters because the liscences for said
characters cant be obtained by the people who HAVE done the classic
characters right. And even if you did get the liscence would you **really**
want to reprint the majority of the DA stories for the ones you do have
access to? Pick and choose, pick and choose. =\
If you're old you're bitter at them. If you're new you're bitter at them. If
you're a creator you're bitter at them. long story short: EVERYBODY BOT GOT
SCREWED AND EVERYBODY'S BITTER! YAY, LETS HAVE A COOKIE!!! :D :D :D :D
>>Don Rosa also once wrote that he only did
> "The Money Pit" (the story in the first Disney issue
>of "Donald Duck Adventures") as a goodwill gesture.
considering the tone of this whole conversation and whats been said about
Disney by people in the know, maybe a title such as "The Money Pit" ended up
actually being more of a jab than anyone might have guessed... ;)
> > It's funny, because I was introduced to Disney
>character comics in 1990 with the beginning of this
>run, and I thought they were fantastic. Good paper,
>good coloring, great stories (so I thought, anyway).
Ditto. I like some of what they did and dont think all of it was bad.
Without them I wouldnt know who Carl Barks was or why DuckTales was so
different. =\
>They were almost completely responsible for the
>appreciation I currently hold for the comics of Donald
>Duck, Uncle Scrooge, and so on.
its like that for many. Surprisingly, most people I know still miss the old
stuff and are under the crazy assumption that the line is still gone. It
takes time to rebuild a fan base that was pretty much scattered to the
winds. =\
Jonathan H. Gray
>>>>>Huck Akin's "The Oak Island Treasure," a Scrooge graphic novel
>
>>announced by Disney (in 1991? I don't have my records here), was also
>revived at Egmont, but shelved and never completed.
>
>> Yeah, that jogged my memory. I remember suggesting to the sales and
>marketing wizards that long stories would be a good thing to do. Maybe run
>them
>initially in several issues of one of the titles, then reprint the
>compilation in
>hardback book form. I think some of them ran about 96 - 100 pages, but
>these
>were fully fleshed out stories with great plots, sub-plots and tangential
>character exposition. I'd forgotten about Huck Akin's "Oak Island
>Treasure." I
>remember he did a ton of research and came in with an exciting plot outline
>that just had to be done.
>
That sounds really interesting to be honest. i would have been all over
something like that in a second. Its really a shame that its probably
sitting somewhere on a shelf in limbo. =\ For anyone in the know, who was
slated to draw it? I suppose the idea of bringing it
out of limbo and possibly reviving it for the prestige Scrooge books is out
of order at this time and date. Ah well... :(
the idea of Disney comics graphic novels - both original material and
reprint material - is actually a very ideal one IMO (and maybe more cost
effective than the old school oversized album prints in the long run). I've
seen a scant few bookstores that have already done this with the Prestige
books i.e. stacking them alongside graphic novels and whatnot. Thats why I'm
really hoping that the Treasures books and the DuckTales books will work in
the long run, so we can get more graphic novel style Disney material out in
the open. Who knows, maybe someday we can have long style original stories
printed in graphic novels here in the states again...
>
>>Pat McGreal did one involving Hawaiian mythology that
> I did see in print.
Really? what was the name of the story.
>>I recall another story notion based on a Swing Music
> orchestra contest involving a symphony-sized gathering of Beagle Boys
>entitled
>"Boogie Woogie Beagle Boys," but I don't know what happened with that.
Ha! That sounds like fun as well. :D
>> I think the Disney "implosion" was more of a 1992 event and was one
>>of the
>things that motivated my departure.
As one of the disney fans who was introduced to the books during your tenure
I was wondering where you had went after the line crumbled.You were IMO one
of the only really good editors there. :(
> > As for "...so they could no longer afford to have the stories
>drawn..." good
>grief! If the money controllers had just stood behind us and supported us,
>we might have done some memorable, groundbreaking stuff. But, no... they
>had
>to squeeze us into monetary oblivion.
i've come to the conclusion in my very very *very* small time in the comic
book industry that its the corporate executive type that almost always kills
comic books if only because they don't seem to understand simple things we
in the real world like to call "common sense". Things that actually do make
sense are often "far too much like right" to go on ahead with. The worst
however comes from those corporate power happy types who micromanage the
creative process to insanely minute details, thus killing potentially
brilliant ideas before they can really even come to conception. Sad really.
=\
>>Gladstone operated for years on a
> handful of dedicated and talented people in modest offices in an
>affordable area
>(Arizona). Disney had about 35 people in some of the most expensive real
>estate
>in Burbank, with computers (I didn't get one), secretaries (not me), and
>supervisors (I had four).
And I think thats part of whats made Gemstone/Gladstone so successful: A
small close knit group of people who love what they do and aren't busy being
inflated on thier own egos. you don't have to modernize everything or change
the formula to everything to make it work. Sometimes if you're just genuine
about what you do and you do it RIGHT it shows and pays off. Even worse than
the oft-maligned Disney run, compare what Marvel Comics did to the Disney
Afternoon characters as opposed to what Disney did to the DA characters.
They turned the more interesting modern Disney characters into
regurgitated kiddie pap. If they'd gotten thier hands on the classic
characters they'd have probably maimed them into something unrocgnizable.
Thankfully (if I remember correctly) its a small blessing that Gladstone II
had not quite folded yet so they still had the classics liscence. My guess
is that they (Marvel) probably were trying to emulate DC's Looney
Tunes/Scooby Doo line but had no clue what they were doing (and it really
showed too). Honestly i think that the very short lived Marvel/Disney series
did more damage to that specific set of characters than the Disney company
could have ever done. =\
>>No wonder they couldn't afford to publish comics. My
> favorite quote by one of the semi-suits - "Here at WD Publications,
>we're not
>building a publishing empire, we're building resumes." They saw Disney
>Comics as a way to prove they could reduce budgets and still get the work
>done,
>then used that skill to get jobs elsewhere.
typical suits in action. =\
> > Hey, I'm just really curious here what the deal was
>with the Disney-published comics circa 1990. As this
>forum and others have demonstrated, there is a lot of
>resentment, anger, and generally unhappy feelings
>about Disney publishing.
I think a lot of it stems from two major things:
If you're a fan of the classic characters (for fun, let's call them Pre-80's
BGB - Before Gummi Bears ^__^), and an old school Disney fan - it really
does look as if they totally raked Gladstone over the coals. Here's this
small close company (Gladstone I) that basically revived the Disney liscence
from limbo all on thier own (not an easy feat). Disney sees this success,
says "Hey, we can do this ourselves and get more of a cut on this revenue!"
takes it, and tries to change the formula entirely (going back to "if it
aint
broke don't fix it") - Goofy barely appeared as Goofy in his own book,
following on the heels of Gottfredson and Scarpa made Disne'ys "modernized
Mickey" look like bunk. And at first everything just came out garish. So
Disney realizes that maybe they bit off more than they can chew "imploding"
all books into 3 and shelving all the modern characters into 1 magazine
book. This fixes things temporarily but it still doesnt work. Disney then
tries to give the people what they want to some degree (what should have
been done at first) while still doing thier own thing. While they succeed in
many areas, ultimately they fail. Disney realizes they cant do it anymore,
and hands back over the semi-battered remains of the liscence back to the
company that originally made it work (Gladstone II). But the damage done to
the liscence is too much. Without a steady readership, most of the fan base
burnt out and wondering where the other characters are, and the industry
having changed tremendously since they'd started out - small company folds.
Then the entire line folds. Fast forward to reboot of line: take two
(Gemstone II) in which they must start all over again at rebuilding what
they once had from scratch.
Now if you're a fan of the Modern characters (Post 80's AGB - After Gummi
Bears ^__^) and new school Disney fan you got screwed over moreso. For the
most part, outside of the ever popular DuckTales, Gladstone didnt really
have much to do with the modern characters. Wuzzles had a few entries in
early G1 Comics and Stories, Gummi
Bears was nowhere to be seen, and Pooh Bear was always more of a classic
character than a modern one depending on your preference. So the INITIAL
Disney line dealing with the "Disney Afternoon" characters was a GODSEND.
But it was inherently flawed. Disney relied on Studio artists to get the
bulk of thier work done on classics and modern: specifically the
oft-maligned Jaime Diaz studios. Some of them could not do proper ducks and
mice to save thier lives, and outside of perhaps Cosme Quartieri on Duck
Tales (who is a personal favorite of mine), the Saavedra's on Rescue
Rangers, and I know I'm forgetting one other whom I did like - the majority
of the Jaime Diaz studio artists were pretty crappy. =\ For things that were
not studio work (such as Mickey Mouse or Roger
Rabbit) they expirimented with industry professionals who'd done superhero
comics, such as Marv Wolfman of Teen Titans doing the first 7 issue arc
story for Duck Tales (I still say it is a fact that The Gold Odyssey was 10
times better and a hell of lot more readable and coherent than the very
disjointed "Scrooge's Quest" ever was - just cause Wolfman wrote it didnt
make it any good...) or Kurt Busiek doing an issue of Mickey Mouse or Sparky
Moore on Roger Rabbit. They also introduced the concept of overarching story
arcs to Disney comics: failing badly on Mickey Mouse but IMO succeeding
somewhat with Rescue Rangers which was, I think, one of the stronger books
("For The Love of Cheese" is an amazingly good story). And here is where
the problem here came in: basically a huge clash with the classic material.
With the new material it was OK to try out new things without stepping on
what came before it, but with the old material classic fans seemed a bit
enraged and jaded that the stuff that had been PROVEN to sell was being
virtually ignored (just look at the various Mickey Mouse and Goofy
Adventures letter columns) .Then came the implosion and all the modern
characters were shuffled rather haphazardly into the Disney Adventures
books. And with that shuffling went went much of the story quality as well.
Some of the DA stories are good (a few of the earlier ones really stand out
and shine ? The Darkwing Duck ?Fluffy? trilogy, A few early Duck Tales
stories, The Legend Of The Chaos God crossover, Return to Blaggard Castle
for instance) but the further you go, the worse they get. Here went all this
potential for new characters and good storylines shunted into the back of a
magazine that - as time went on - devoted less and less space to then (now
you can barely find ANY actual Disney characters in DA). When the Disney
line folded, Gladstone got the classics back, but the DA characters went to
Marvel where they took good attempts at moden characters that had already
been dumbed down and turned them into (as I stated earlier) "marvelous
examples of vomitous kiddie pap".
Outside of DuckTales (and what seems to be a recent resurgence of Launchpad)
- all hopes of seeing the modern characters get the same respect that the
classics vanished into thin air. Here is an entire gamut of fun characters
that intoduced many modern fans to the classics, that will never get a
chance to be the next Scamps, Bucky Bugs, Chip and Dale, or 'Lil Bad Wolfs.
and you cant even use Comics and Stories - what has always been the variety
showcase book - to showcase these characters because the liscences for said
characters cant be obtained by the people who HAVE done the classic
characters right. And even if you did get the liscence would you **really**
want to reprint the majority of the DA stories for the ones you do have
access to? Pick and choose, pick and choose. =\
If you're old you're bitter at them. If you're new you're bitter at them. If
you're a creator you're bitter at them. long story short: EVERYBODY BOT GOT
SCREWED AND EVERYBODY'S BITTER! YAY, LETS HAVE A COOKIE!!! :D :D :D :D
>>Don Rosa also once wrote that he only did
> "The Money Pit" (the story in the first Disney issue
>of "Donald Duck Adventures") as a goodwill gesture.
considering the tone of this whole conversation and whats been said about
Disney by people in the know, maybe a title such as "The Money Pit" ended up
actually being more of a jab than anyone might have guessed... ;)
> > It's funny, because I was introduced to Disney
>character comics in 1990 with the beginning of this
>run, and I thought they were fantastic. Good paper,
>good coloring, great stories (so I thought, anyway).
Ditto. I like some of what they did and dont think all of it was bad.
Without them I wouldnt know who Carl Barks was or why DuckTales was so
different. =\
>They were almost completely responsible for the
>appreciation I currently hold for the comics of Donald
>Duck, Uncle Scrooge, and so on.
its like that for many. Surprisingly, most people I know still miss the old
stuff and are under the crazy assumption that the line is still gone. It
takes time to rebuild a fan base that was pretty much scattered to the
winds. =\
Jonathan H. Gray
Olaf Moriarty Solstrand
Disney-published Comics
Message 71 -
2006-05-19 at 02:55:08
Jonathan H. Gray <jongraywb at hotmail.com> skreiv Fri, 19 May 2006 00:40:19
+0200
>>> Pat McGreal did one involving Hawaiian mythology that
>> I did see in print.
>
> Really? what was the name of the story.
I guess it's ?Treasure of the island gods?. Sounds very much like it, at
least.
http://coa.inducks.org/story.php/x/D+93118
Olaf
+0200
>>> Pat McGreal did one involving Hawaiian mythology that
>> I did see in print.
>
> Really? what was the name of the story.
I guess it's ?Treasure of the island gods?. Sounds very much like it, at
least.
http://coa.inducks.org/story.php/x/D+93118
Olaf
Marc Newman
DCML Digest, Vol 39, Issue 16
Message 72 -
2006-05-19 at 07:29:01
>
>
> welcome to this list! it's nice to see another American (assumption?)
> fan pop up here as we seem to be few and far between outside of the
> actual creators.
>
> Jonathan Gray
>
>
Thanks Jonathan!
It's been quite the education for me in the last five years as I delved
deeper into Barks fandom to learn that these comics that I loved as a
child are so well-regarded in Europe yet are now practically unknown to
a generation or two of Americans. I would say that our Disney back
issue sales are about equally spread between Europe/Australia and the
U.S. with the bigger orders actually going "international" instead of
domestic. Even as late as 1985 one of my favorite family restaurants
had Gold Key Disneys available for kids to read in the lobby as one
waited for a table. No longer. (I know this topic has been
well-discussed before on this list as I've been browsing the archives.)
It's hard to imagine a restaurant buying a $6.95 current Duck book for
kids to look at. Too pricey.
Another topic I happened to notice in the archives is a discussion about
starting titles over with issue #1. I'm usually against this as one of
my primary interests in comics is the history of same. Plus, having to
list
Donald Duck Adventures (Gladstone) and Donald Duck Adventures (Disney)
on the website is a pain. I know we sometimes forget to designate too,
so that's more work cleaning up our database.
However, there is one positive thing to starting numbering over and that
is that people might use the occasion as a "jumping on point." I know
that it sometimes works that way for me. I happen to be buying the
superhero comic New Avengers right now and it's actually the first time
I've bought the Avengers on a monthly basis in 20 years! The fact that
I could start from the beginning was kind of fun and different for me
and I've been enjoying it. So the diehards will buy the Disney titles
anyway but a new start might make a few people pick it up who wouldn't
otherwise. Some will stick with it.
By the way, it might please everyone to know that Carl Barks is
extremeley well-regarded in a surprising place: The CGC message
boards. I assume quite a few of you only have a passing-at-best
knowledge of CGC. That's the company that professionally grades comics
for a fee and "slabs" them in a special tamper-proof holder. Well, the
people who use the service are usually pretty superhero-centric (and a
whole bunch of other things, lol) but the company's message boards
actually seem to attract the most knowledgeable and passionate fans of
American comics that I've ever seen. It's gratifying to see that so
many people there love Barks.
I'll try to remember to post some links next week.
Regards,
Marc Newman
www.HouseofComics.com
"Super-Selection of Silver and Bronze Age Comics"
>
> welcome to this list! it's nice to see another American (assumption?)
> fan pop up here as we seem to be few and far between outside of the
> actual creators.
>
> Jonathan Gray
>
>
Thanks Jonathan!
It's been quite the education for me in the last five years as I delved
deeper into Barks fandom to learn that these comics that I loved as a
child are so well-regarded in Europe yet are now practically unknown to
a generation or two of Americans. I would say that our Disney back
issue sales are about equally spread between Europe/Australia and the
U.S. with the bigger orders actually going "international" instead of
domestic. Even as late as 1985 one of my favorite family restaurants
had Gold Key Disneys available for kids to read in the lobby as one
waited for a table. No longer. (I know this topic has been
well-discussed before on this list as I've been browsing the archives.)
It's hard to imagine a restaurant buying a $6.95 current Duck book for
kids to look at. Too pricey.
Another topic I happened to notice in the archives is a discussion about
starting titles over with issue #1. I'm usually against this as one of
my primary interests in comics is the history of same. Plus, having to
list
Donald Duck Adventures (Gladstone) and Donald Duck Adventures (Disney)
on the website is a pain. I know we sometimes forget to designate too,
so that's more work cleaning up our database.
However, there is one positive thing to starting numbering over and that
is that people might use the occasion as a "jumping on point." I know
that it sometimes works that way for me. I happen to be buying the
superhero comic New Avengers right now and it's actually the first time
I've bought the Avengers on a monthly basis in 20 years! The fact that
I could start from the beginning was kind of fun and different for me
and I've been enjoying it. So the diehards will buy the Disney titles
anyway but a new start might make a few people pick it up who wouldn't
otherwise. Some will stick with it.
By the way, it might please everyone to know that Carl Barks is
extremeley well-regarded in a surprising place: The CGC message
boards. I assume quite a few of you only have a passing-at-best
knowledge of CGC. That's the company that professionally grades comics
for a fee and "slabs" them in a special tamper-proof holder. Well, the
people who use the service are usually pretty superhero-centric (and a
whole bunch of other things, lol) but the company's message boards
actually seem to attract the most knowledgeable and passionate fans of
American comics that I've ever seen. It's gratifying to see that so
many people there love Barks.
I'll try to remember to post some links next week.
Regards,
Marc Newman
www.HouseofComics.com
"Super-Selection of Silver and Bronze Age Comics"
Gunnarsson, Joakim SE - HMJ
The Og cover artists.
Message 73 -
2006-05-19 at 12:18:52
David wrote:
>>> Actually, Inducks credits the penciling to Tony Strobl- and we don't
know its inker. Whoever it was did a great job, though; Donald does look
like Barks might have pulled him off.>>>
Well, this looks more like Phil De Lara inked by one of Strobls regular
inkers. Compare Gyro to anything Phil did for the backup stories in US.
Inking/corrections looks like it was made by the same person that did change
the art on some of Barks DD covers.
Barks didn't have any hand in this cover.
Cheers!
/Joakim Gunnarsson.
>>> Actually, Inducks credits the penciling to Tony Strobl- and we don't
know its inker. Whoever it was did a great job, though; Donald does look
like Barks might have pulled him off.>>>
Well, this looks more like Phil De Lara inked by one of Strobls regular
inkers. Compare Gyro to anything Phil did for the backup stories in US.
Inking/corrections looks like it was made by the same person that did change
the art on some of Barks DD covers.
Barks didn't have any hand in this cover.
Cheers!
/Joakim Gunnarsson.
Didier Ghez
Gremlins reprint question
Message 74 -
2006-05-19 at 17:14:59
Marvin,
Do you or do any of you on the list know if the Gremlins "reprint" will also include editorial content and material as planned when that project was first announced?
Best.
Didier
Do you or do any of you on the list know if the Gremlins "reprint" will also include editorial content and material as planned when that project was first announced?
Best.
Didier
Lars Jensen
William R. Van Horn
Message 75 -
2006-05-19 at 18:04:51
Olaf Solstrand wrote:
> According to the Canadian phone book, William Van Horn's middle
> initial is R. [...] Does anyone here know what this R is short for?
Rumpus.
No?
Lars
> According to the Canadian phone book, William Van Horn's middle
> initial is R. [...] Does anyone here know what this R is short for?
Rumpus.
No?
Lars