Keskustelujen arkisto

Wow... I also feel, like Derek, that I could curse up a storm that would make Scrooge look like a nun! :( I guess a lot of my current thoughts could be summarized as "Censored!" as Barks would put in Donald's mouth on occasion. When I read about the cancellations on the list today it felt like a nasty punch to the stomach!

Before anything else though, I want to follow the example set by Derek and profusely thank everyone at Gemstone for all they have done so far and for all they will do in the future. This is a dark day, but lets remember that if it were not for Gemstone we would have had *no* Disney comics for the last 3+ plus years. Not only have they provided us with Disney comics, but they have done so in fantastic fashion! While I am deeply concerned about the future, I in no way want to forget or diminish what a great job they have done so far.

I also would like to know how high the prices of the $2.95 and $7.95 books would have had to have been raised. I can't speak for others, but I would have contained to buy these titles each and every month even if there were *hefty* price increases.

As far as the two prestige titles go, raising the price from $6.95 to $7.50 is more than fair considering that the price on these books has not increased since 1997. That gives me an idea though. If Uncle Scrooge and WDC&S are still successful for Gemstone, why not make Donald Duck and Friends and Mickey Mouse and Friends monthly $7.50 books? You could then keep these titles going at a more successful price point. I know I would love to have both these titles continue as prestige format titles. What do other people on the list think of this idea? Would you be willing to buy two more prestige format titles a month? If not two new prestige titles a month, how about one more prestige title a month perhaps called "Donald and Mickey and Friends"? The 64 pages of this prestige title would equal the 32 pages of MMaF and DDaF and only cost a bit more each month. Wouldn't this be kind of a way of having your cake and eating it too? You could publish just as many color pages per month, but at a price point that would be more successful for Gemstone. Or is there some reason that this would not work? I fully admit I know next to nothing about the economics of comic book publishing, so please feel free to educate me all about it.

Back to the two prestige titles that you are going to publish each month. Since there will now only be U$ and WDC&S on a monthly basis, could you really limit the amount of reprint material in it, especially Barks? With only these two monthly titles now, and there being SO much material that has NEVER been printed for the North American market, I would like that each and every page be of new to North America material.

Of course, I imagine people at Gemstone and buyers of Gemstone comic may still want a good deal of Barks reprints. A couple of thoughts about that. One, I am hoping that in the next few years Gemstone will start a Carl Barks Library similar to the EC Library that Gemstone has just very recently started. If a Carl Barks Library starts in the next few years (a hint and a hope! :)), there is really no reason to keep reprinting Barks stories in U$ and WDC&S. Why not keep the pages of U$ and WDC&S open for new stories?

Perhaps Gemstone thinks many people will not buy a Carl Barks Library. I however think most serious Disney comics fans will. This kind of brings up a "big elephant in the room" topic that has not been discussed much. Since Gemstone started they have had a strong goal of getting kids to read Disney comics again. That was a laudable goal and a goal I applaud them for trying for. In my humble opinion though, this has not happened. I certainly wish kids had come back to Disney comics and it pains me to think they have not. And if someone at Gemstone can tell me that I am wrong that marketing for kids has not been much of a success, please let me know. I would LOVE to be wrong about that! :) I just think getting kids to read *any* comics in a traditional format is next to impossible these days. No offense to Gemstone, but if DC and Marvel can't do it, I don't see how Gemstone could either. Of course that leaves out manga, Shonen Jump, etc., but I will get to that later.

So what I am getting at is for Gemstone to embrace the fact that 90% of there customers are not kids and instead older collectors. I think most of us older collectors are not that upset about the price increase and in fact would like there to be more to buy each month. And for Gemstone buyers who say they still want Barks stories and will not buy a Carl Barks library, you can really get most of Barks' stories that were reprinted during Gemstone I, Disney comics, Gemstone II, and even earlier comics. I imagine you can get most of these earlier re-reprints for about 7 or 8 bucks, so it is not really more expensive than getting them in the monthly U$ and WDC&S comics.

I am excited to hear about Gemstone turning Walt Disney Treasures into a ongoing series. Have you decided if they will come out on a regular basis? If so, will they be monthly, bi-monthly, quarterly, etc.? I would encourage considering having them come out on a monthly basis. >From almost the beginning of Gemstone, I have thought having a monthly trade paperback would be a great idea for Gemstone. The first Walt Disney Treasures came out this past summer for $12.99 and had 160 pages. Even if you had to increase the price to say $14.99 or $15.99 and could keep the same number of pages it would be a great deal. It costs $15 a month for both U$ and WDC&S and you will get about 128 pages total. Well, if there were a monthly Walt Disney Treasures for say $15 you would be paying the same price as U$ and WDC&S combined and even get *more pages* for the same amount of money! So having a monthly Walt Disney Treasures TPB would ease much of the pain of losing MMaF and DDaF.

What are the content plans for Walt Disney Treasures? I think it would be nice if they could at least some time focus on a particular creator. Imagine having Treasures TPBs devoted to Vicar, Scarpa, Gottfredson, etc. Not to even mention the obvious choice of having Rosa collections that I can't help but think would sell very well. Does this idea appeal to other list members beside myself?

Onto the Shonen Jump style black and white books. While it may be hard for me to adjust to reading Disney comics in B/W, I still think this is a great idea. If there is one last chance at getting kids to read Disney comics, I think this is it. You just get *so* many pages for *such* a cheap price that it is an incredible deal! Derek wondered what the paper qualities of the B/W collections would be. I am just guessing, but wouldn't the paper quality be similar to the quality in DC's "Showcase Presents" and Marvel's "Essentials" collections? I kind of think of them as having a "phone book" quality to that paper. So no, they will not be nice as regular monthly 32 page "pamphlet" comics, but on the other hand you get so much value for your money. For example, DC's "Showcase Presents" and Marvel's "Essentials" retail for $16.99 and include between 500 and 600 pages!!! I am not very familiar with "Shonen Jump", but I believe it is around 300 pages each monthly for about 6 or 7 dollars. Perhaps some who reads Shonen Jump can be more specific.

So I would love see these "Shonen Jump" style collections come out as often as possible and for them to be a huge success. Are there any plans yet for what stories will appear in these collections. I think some reprints (even re-re-reprints) would be OK for this format, but I also hope that there will much new material as well. Many Italian creators such as Scarpa, Cavazzono and others produce some quite long stories and these would fit well with these collections due to how many pages are available in each collection.

So while I am very saddened about the cancellations, at least there is some good news as well. I concur with Derek though that this whole business is unsettling. I realize that there are NO guarantees in life. However, do we Disney comics fans have anything to fear like the last time Gladstone cut its production to only two titles a month? Is there any way you can let us know if Gemstone is still doing well and plans on being around for a long time to come? Hopefully these cancellations do not forebode further bad tidings but on a more positive note are just Gemstone changing which formats it finds more successful.

So to close this, *anything* *anyone* at Gemstone could let us know more about the future of Gemstone know would be greatly appreciated. I realize that may not be possible at this time though. Whenever you have "tidbits" or more though, please let us know! :) I would love to hear what other list members have to say about Gemstone's new direction and/or some of my ideas and suggestions. Please feel free to tell me that my ideas stink if you think they do! After hearing about Gemstone's bad news, hearing that my ideas are awful won't hurt a bit in comparison! :(

Dean Rekich

Hi everyone!

First, thank you Derek, for forewarding the information!

1/ Cancelled Titles
Like Dean, I would be curious to know how much the price would have had to be for MM&F, DD&F, DDA and MMA to continue?

2/ Continuing Titles
No problem with the price here, though I can understand it might be much for many readers.
On a sidenote, I wish amazon.fr got the titles faster (I only received the October issue of WDC&S yesterday-- # 673) and provided a "Subscribe" option for periodicals, but that's an other matter, unless maybe Gemstone can try and suggest it. amazon.com does have such a service, after all.

3/ Reprints
The eternal Barks reprint "dilemma". I guess it's like those movies that systematically get a re-run on TV every year; "same old thing", but also nice memories, and a chance for many to discover them.
I don't think a new Barks Library would warrant cancelling those reprints, Dean. How could people new to Disney comics (there must be some) decide to buy such $30+ anthologies if they did not get a few samples once in a while in the regular comics?
The big problem is figuring out how to space them.
Besides, if only older readers are interested in the comics and Barks stories as you suggest, then most must already have either Barks Library, if not both, which means they would not need another.
I'm all for a new anthology, with new essays, ... I have the CBLiC and only the first set each of DD and US CBL, and I would gladly invest in a new, hardcover, all-color Library. Incidentally, I purchased as many EC comics sets as I could find (new) three-four years ago, yet I am most interested in the new EC anthology series-- even though I will surely start with those series I do not have yet, just because I cannot get everything at once.

4/ Walt Disney Treasures
The first volume was a wonderful idea, and making it an ongoing series is even better! The ideal thing, of course, would be to have them released at the same time as the DVDS, which I am sure is what was planned from the beginning. The DVDs ought to contain a leaflet advertising the albums, by the way; I hope you were able to arrange this for the upcoming new batch.
I love the idea of such a compendium / sampler of everything Disney; all the characters and most major authors & artists were represented. The production was top quality, and two essays were even included. This was a most sumptuous release, and definitely my favorite of the new books you have produced.
As for your suggestion, Dean, I agree volumes focusing on one author / artist (Scarpa, Cavazzano, Jippes, ...) would be great, but I think this ought to be yet another title; it seems to be the Disney Treasures should retain the current compendium format, to appeal to as many people as possible, and to celebrate as many creations and creators as possible at once.

5/ Shonen Jump-style books
Dean's explanation & parallel with the DC & Marvel books, plus a little search, gave me an idea of what this might be.
"More bang for your buck" always sounds good. I have just thumbed through my "House of Mystery" (which I have not read yet, but I will start this week); good quality; I'm sure Gemstone will do their best to deliver the best quality possible.
Comics in black and white? Well, this was presented as a major asset for the CBL and EC anthologies: clear art, the artist's work in the purest state, with no interference from an exterior agent (colorist's interpretations, poor color quality for technical reasons, ...). If the paper quality is cheaper than that of the current comics, black and white might be much better, indeed.
The idea of Disney comics in black and white is all the less odd to me as I grew up reading Mickey Parade and Picsou Magazine, which, unlike Le Journal de Mickey, were not in full-color (ie, not until the second half / late '80's), but were in an hybrid format: two pages in color, two in black and white, two colored, two b&w, ... And another publication, Mickey Poche, was all black and white.

6/ Special books
Mickey and the Gang is a most splendid book, and I don't regret getting the hardcover rather than the (already gorgeous) softcover. Are there ore such books in the making?

7/ Anthologies
An old request: a link was posted this summer to an article evoking the possibility, not only of a new Barks anthology, but of a Gottfredson one.
Is it possible now to have more information on the chances of this happening?

8/ The Future
Be sure I'll keep doing my best buying the comics & books (I'm quite behind in the now-to-be-cancelled titles, but that's because amazon.fr doesn't carry them and I have to order them in bulk from US comics retailers) and promoting them.
Disney comics have always been great, wholesome, fun comics, with many well-written & well-drawn gems, and we have been fortunate to have Gladstone & Gemstone, not only to publish them, but to do such a remarkable job of it.
My only regret in the switch from one to the other is the loss of special features ("The Year That Was", essays on stories, comics history, ...), but I understand we still won't get any right now, due to those price issues. Scoop! does provide similar features online, but it is not entirely devoted to Disney comics-- and it is online.

Thanks again to the Gemstone (for some, formerly Gemstone) team your efforts!
Even though the loss of four titles is a sad thing, those other projects sound mighty intriguing-- and, dare I say it, the black & white books might even turn out a lot better than the pocket books: more cumbersome, but more profitable (lesser costs for you, more pages for us) and possibly with more gems, with nice, long stories that even the pocketbook comics would have had a hard time holding.

Olivier

Thanks for all the good points you made Olivier! I will respond to some of them and give you some more of my ideas, for what they are worth.

In regards to the "Barks reprint dilemma", I have a few different thoughts. You ask how could people new to Disney comics discover Barks if the are not in the regular comics. Well, I have a sad thought about that. Hopefully I am wrong, but I think the idea of many people discovering Barks in North America in North America is mostly wishful thinking. I believe Gemstone has to concern itself most for the good it has (current Disney comic fans and collectors) than with what it has not (getting kids to read Disney comics, getting new readers, etc.) Except for the Shonen Jump style book, I think they must have somewhat given up on the hunt for new and young Disney comic fans. Why do I say this? When Gemstone started, they said that U$ and WDC&S were aimed at the collector due to their high price. They also seem to have said or imply that DD&F, MM&F, and the monthly pocket books were geared more towards getting younger and new readers. Now of course that was not a hard and fast rule, and I am sure that they hoped *lots* of people would buy *all* of the titles. However, it seems like they knew the two prestige titles were geared for the collectors market, and the two newsstand titles and the pocket book aimed for a more mainstream and young audience. So which titles has Gemstone cancelled? The two newsstand titles and the two pocket books. It seems to me that Gemstone realizes (quite sadly) that the market that they do have *now* is the collector market and to focus on it. Since most older Disney comic fans already have a good portion of Barks' stories, I really think there should be as little as possible reprints in the two prestige titles. Why reprint Barks' stories to the readership most likely to have copies of them already?

Of course another way Gemstone could successfully reprint Barks' stories is what they did this year: they could print volumes devoted solely to Barks. They published two different TPB volumes of "Carl Barks' Greatest DuckTales Stories". Perhaps someone at Gemstone could tell us if they sold well? I certainly hope they did! This way Barks' stories can be reprinted for the people who have not read or own them yet, and at the same time people who have these stories already can pass on these volumes if they wish. I myself bought both volumes even though I have all of these different stories a few times already. I want to do everything I can to help support Gemstone and I imagine a number of other older Disney fans bought both volumes for the same reason! :)

Gemstone says that they may resume printing the two 32 page titles and the pocket books if either the price of paper falls or better marketing opportunities arrive. I wonder if Gemstone could tell us how realistic such a chance is. I have *no* knowledge whatsoever about the price of paper. Is it *realistically* possible that the price of paper could fall significantly in the next few years? I just do not have a clue, but perhaps some at Gemstone, or someone who does know something about the price of paper could tell us. Also, does Gemstone foresee any better marketing opportunities arising in the next few years?

As for a new Barks Library, I sincerely hope one is in the works. I also have the CBLiC album series, but would *love* to have a new, definitive volume like the EC Comics Library Gemstone is just starting. While the albums are nice, I would really love to have a "normal" size Barks library. Ideally, I think it would make sense to have both softcover and hardcover volumes like they did with "Mickey and the Gang" so that they could reach the widest possible audience. I will gladly buy them whichever way they choose to publish them though!

As for the Walt Disney Treasures volumes, I like the idea of timing them to come out the same time as the DVDs except for one problem: the DVDs come out only once a year! :( I certainly hope that Walt Disney Treasures volumes come out on a monthly basis, or at the very least a bi-monthly or quarterly basis. In regards to what their content should be, I would be happy for them to retain the compendium format *as long as* there was a similar series of volumes that covered certain creators. Why settle for one TPB volume series if we could have two! :)

As for the Shonen Jump style volumes, I think the key is to get them to the bookstores in North America. I know Gemstone wanted to get their pocket books in bookstores, but I do not think they succeeded in that. Yes, you could get them at Barnes and Noble online and Amazon online, but did anyone in North America ever see them in a brick and mortar Barnes and Noble or Borders bookstore? I never did. So while it may be nice to have these titles at online stores, I think it is *crucial* to get them into actual bookstores. If not, I do not see the Shone Jump style volumes succeeding anymore that the pocket books did. Is there a new marketing plan to get the Shonen Jump style volumes into actual bookstores? I really think the pocket books could have been successful if they had been placed in with the manga tiles in US bookstores. I think the best remaining hope for getting new and younger Disney readers is this Shonen Jump style book. They definitely will offer the most "bang for your buck"!

Unlike Olivier, I have not had much experience with black and white Disney comics. Whether I grow to appreciate the black and white experience or not, the most important thing is for there to remain Disney comics here! If it takes black and white titles to do that, that is terrific by me!

As before, thanks *very* much for all Gemstone has already done and will do in the future! Also as before, I would love to hear the opinions of others on the mailing list on these subjects. Finally as before, *please* be kind Gemstone and give us *whatever* news you can *whenever* you can!

Dean Rekich

As Don Rosa himself has pointed out, comic books are a dying art,
especially those with more text to read and without the gruesome "dark"
nature of the revamped superhero lines.

The competition from the culture of videogames, DVD's, the Internet,
sports, etc. for a child's or an adult's time is just too great. A DVD
of DuckTales can cost $7.95 these days: why buy a comic book which has no
music and does not move?

On the other hand, I do wonder about the marketing here! Borders and
Barnes and Noble (large American bookstores) have kiosks with the
superhero comics and Archie: where is the Disney kiosk? The pocket-sized
Disney comics, put out by Disney directly and not Gemstone, can be seen
in supermarket check-out aisles. Where were these cheaper Gemstone
editions of Disney characters for $2.95?

In the end, just not enough copies were sold. The market is too small
and specialized.

--

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On 2006-10-28 19:54, Leo Schulte wrote:
> The
> pocket-sized Disney comics, put out by Disney directly and not Gemstone,

Which comics are published by Disney directly? Anything else than Disney
Adventures?

Stefan

In a message dated 10/28/2006 7:11:10 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
schulte at teacher.com writes:
>As Don Rosa himself has pointed out, comic books are a dying art,
especially
>those with more text to read and without the gruesome "dark" nature of the
>revamped superhero lines.

I'm not sure when Don Rosa pointed that out, but thanks to TokyoPop and Viz,
it's obvious that comics are not yet a dying art. Comic shops in the USA
are obviously continuing in their trend to be superhero shops ---

did Gemstone ever circulate the Disney comics outside comic shops?
I've never seen them outside (well Ive never seen them IN comic shops
either, just in Previews)

Steven rowe

I'm sorry if this is an abuse of the list.
I'd like to add a new duck to the huge family tree of the Subject, but I
can't manage to contact its author. I hope he still reads our messages...
^_^;;

Mickey

First off, sorry for the double posting last digest. :( The first time I sent it I got I message back that it did not go through.

Mark wrote and wondered how a DD&F or a MM&F could sell better at a $7.50 price than at a $2.95. Well, for one thing, I don't think Gemstone has come out and said that these titles sell a lot worse than the two prestige titles. They said they cannot make money on them at $2.95. I think there is a big difference. I have seen on the Net a few sites that list the sale of comic book titles each money. Now I have *no* idea how accurate these stats are, but if they are any good at all, from what I have read all *four* Gemstone titles sell roughly the same amount. Of course they do not sell exactly the same, but it is not like one title sells twice as much as the lowest selling title does. So until Gemstone tells us otherwise, I am not so sure that two $2.95 titles were a sales failure.