Keskustelujen arkisto

Hello dcml-members,

I?m working on my diploma on italien comics and I?m urgentlly looking for high-resolution scans of two Topolino covers from 1932.
http://coa.inducks.org/issue.php?c=it%2fTG++++1
http://coa.inducks.org/issue.php?c=it%2fTG++++3

If anyboby could send such a scan to me it will help me a lot.
Thanks
nele

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1. THE FRAUDULENT FAMILY TREE

In early 2002, Rich Bellacera drew our attention to a Duck
Family Tree in a publication named "The Little Big Book of
Disney" by Monique Peterson (2001):

http://nafsk.se/pipermail/dcml/2002-February/012310.html

This Tree elicited the following comment from Don Rosa:

> What a mess!!! This author has taken the characters off my
> Duck Family Tree [...] and tossed in elements from a few
> other sources, and jumbled it all up into a mess. Then
> pulling one bit of idiocy out of thin air and
> having "Mother Goose" (who I think is a human, anyway)
> being an ancestor of one character, which is stupid
> enough, but the ancestor of a Duck rather than Gus or
> Gladstone!??? What on earth caused this? I bet most of it
> is a result of the author swiping info off of a fansite
> like Gilles'.

http://nafsk.se/pipermail/dcml/2002-February/012312.html

Gilles Maurice confirmed that this was indeed the case and
expressed his indignation:

http://nafsk.se/pipermail/dcml/2002-February/012325.html

Still, he added the Tree to his Duck Family Trees page,
where it's still visible:

http://goofy313g.free.fr/calisota_online/trees/ducktrees/index.html
http://goofy313g.free.fr/calisota_online/trees/ducktrees/treelbbd.gif

The Tree poses several problems to Duck genealogists,
among which is the following question: Why is Mother Goose
included in this Tree?

2. THE TRUTH ABOUT MOTHER GOOSE

In the Tree, Mother Goose is mentioned as an ancestor of
Professor Ludwig von Drake. One wonders (with Don Rosa)
why they chose to include her at all, or why they didn't
choose her as a relative of a Goose character instead.
This question was fairly simply solved, when yesterday I
suddenly stumbled across the answer.

There are lots of animated Disney shorts available on
YouTube, including several videos starring Ludwig von
Drake.
One of these is "The Truth about Mother Goose" (1963), in
which Ludwig von Drake claims that Mother Goose was
actually *his* grandmother. Ludwig then proceeds to
introduce the actual feature, which is an older segment
from 1957. You can see it for yourselves at:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z78hXdWDbJo

It's questionable if Ludwig's words should be taken
seriously. He refers to Herman the Bootle Beetle as 'my
childhood companion', yet the present-day Herman looks
just as young as the one in the picture. The picture could
be a fake. Furthermore, Ludwig has shown a tendency to
claim he had a large influence on popular culture. For
example, in "A Symposium on Popular Songs" (1962) he
claims to have been the instigator of different types of
music (ragtime, charleston, crooning, boogie-woogie). To
claim a similar role for his forebears (e.g. his
grandmother) in the field of nursery rhymes ties in with
this tendency.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-n1cXmMV8eI

Whatever the truth of Ludwig's claim his grandmother was
THE Mother Goose, maybe we can at least accept her *name*
as a given fact. Ludwig von Drake having a grandmother
with the name Goose doesn't require a big stretch of the
imagination, as Goose seems to be a fairly common name in
the family. Moreover, it can help us to pinpoint Ludwig's
relation to Donald pretty acurately.

3. LUDWIG'S LINEAGE

3.1 The facts

The exact nature of Ludwig's relation to Donald is one of
the big questions among Duck genealogists. We know he's
Donald's uncle, but on which side of the family? Is he an
uncle or a great uncle? Is he a married man? Is he a
literal uncle or is he further removed? Thus far, only a
few facts have been established:

1) Ludwig is Donald's uncle
2) Ludwig is a bachelor
3) Ludwig and Donald have common ancestors named Duck
4) Ludwig's grandmother is Mother Goose

* 2) From the cartoon "Kids is kids" (1961)
* 3) From the story "The Family Tree Spree" (1962)
* 4) From the cartoon "The Truth about Mother Goose"
(1963)

* 2) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0913583/
* 3) http://coa.inducks.org/story.php?c=W+LVD+++3-03
For a synopsis by Gilles Maurice, see:
http://goofy313g.free.fr/calisota_online/trees/ducktrees/index.html

3.2 Ludwig's marital status

Ludwig is NOT married to Matilda McDuck, because a) he is
a bachelor and b) he doesn't *need* to be married to be
Donald's uncle, for he and Donald have common ancestors.
Moreover, this supposed marriage has never been shown in
canon and has therefore no official status.

3.3 Ludwig's relation to Donald

i) Ludwig can't be a brother of Donald's father, whose
last name is Duck and not Von Drake
ii) Ludwig can't be a brother of Donald's mother, whose
last name is McDuck, according to Carl Barks

iii) Ludwig can't be a brother of Donald's paternal
grandfather, whose last name is Duck
iv) Ludwig can't be a brother of Grandma Duck, Donald's
paternal grandmother, because there's nothing in the
comics to suggest that they're siblings

v) Ludwig can't be a brother of Donald's maternal
grandfather, whose last name is McDuck
vi) Ludwig can't be a brother of Donald's maternal
grandmother, because this is contradicted by the fact that
Donald and Ludwig have common ancestors on the Duck side
of the family, i.e. Donald's father's side.

From this, it follows that Ludwig is neither Donald's
uncle, nor his great uncle, but only an uncle in the loose
sense of "senior male relative". Still, I will try to find
out the closest way for him to be related to Donald.

3.4 Ludwig's family

This is where Ludwig's grandmother Mother Goose enters the
argument. As she was Ludwig's grandmother, we can assume
that Mother Goose was a married woman. Goose is most
likely the name of her husband, just like Grandma Duck
isn't known by her maiden name. We can now establish the
names of three of Ludwig's grandparents.

1) One grandfather must be named Von Drake
2) The other grandfather is clearly named Goose
3) One of the grandmothers is likely named Duck

Ludwig has ancestors with the name Duck and I try to have
him as closely related to Donald as possible. So one of
the grandmothers must be a Duck, as his grandfathers are
already a Von Drake and a Goose.

My *personal inclination* would be to have the Duck
grandmother marry the Von Drake grandfather. This way, the
bond between the Duck and Von Drake families precedes the
bond between the Von Drake and Goose families, making the
Duck-Von Drake connection the older (and thus closer?)
one.
Certainly, Ludwig is known as *Donald's* family, while his
relation to Gus remains unspecified. (But maybe he belongs
to a whole different branch of the Goose family?)

As Ludwig clearly belongs to Scrooge's generation instead
of Donald's, Ludwig's grandmother Duck would belong to the
generation of Donald's great grandfather. They should be
siblings, to have Ludwig as closely related to Donald as
possible. This is what their Family Tree would look like:

Duck(m)x(f)
/ \
Goose(m)x(f)"Mother.Goose" Von.Drake(m)x(f)Duck
Duck(m)x(f)
\ / /
Goose(f)x(m)Von.Drake
Grandma.Duck(f)x(m)Grandpa.Duck
/ \
Ludwig.von.Drake(m)
Hortense.McDuck(f)x(m)Quackmore.Duck
\
Donald.Duck(m)

4. CONCLUSION

By now I have said nearly everything I had to say about
the subject. I must make mention of the fact that I
participated recently with Rob Klein in a discussion on
Ludwig, on the Disney Comics Forum:

http://dcf.outducks.org/viewtopic.php?id=171&p=2

However, I chose to write a mail to dcml instead of
disclosing my new information to the forum, partly because
this format is better suited and partly because this is
where the discussion really started, a long while ago.

I want to conclude with the last subject I have left
untouched:

*A GLIMPSE OF LUDWIG'S LOVE LIFE*

In "A Symposium on Popular Music" (1962), mentioned above,
we get to read part of a love letter that was sent to
Ludwig. Apparently, Ludwig seems to have enjoyed a
relationship of a certain length with someone. He must
have a soft spot for her(?) or he wouldn't have kept the
letter, yet he has no qualms about tearing the letter up.
He seems to be embarrassed by it.

Ludwig produces the letter when comes to speak about a
song he wrote, called "Louisville Ludwig". The caption of
the letter, "Dear Lovey Ludwig", is a pun on the
pronunciation of Louisville. See also:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/eb/Louisville_pronunciationguide.jpg

To see Ludwig's love letter, flash forward to 4'57" of the
video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-n1cXmMV8eI

Very best wishes to all of you,

Michiel Prior

Groningen, the Netherlands

Hey there everyone.? Martin here is the USA.? I have a page of comic book art I would like to identify.? Actually I have two items I would like to identify.? One is a 10 page set of pencils, for a mickey and goofy comic.? They are the Wright Brothers, and are building an airplane.? One panel shows a large plane, like a dc-10? and the hop the wright brothers plan took in comparison.?

Another is a single page finished pencils, 4 rows, two panels per row, of the junior woodchucks, about to bathe a dog.? Donald?points in the first panel for?them to wash the dog.? ?Two of the three?boys?put on? what look like space helmuts and give the dog a bone to chew on while washing him, much to donald's happiness.? Balloons are empty of text.? I can send images of both to anyone interested.? The single page came through an auction at one point, and was labeled? "Disney Comic book art, 1970's"?

Thanks for your help!!!? Best wishes,? Martin May

-----Original Message-----
From: dcml-request at nafsk.se
To: dcml at nafsk.se
Sent: Fri, 4 Jul 2008 6:13 am
Subject: DCML Digest, Vol 65, Issue 1

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Today's Topics:

1. topo lino (Nele Br?nner)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2008 12:58:34 +0200
From: Nele Br?nner <Nelebroenner at web.de>
Subject: topo lino
To: dcml at nafsk.se
Message-ID: <1199002930 at web.de>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15"

Hello dcml-members,

I?m working on my diploma on italien comics and I?m urgentlly looking for
high-resolution scans of two Topolino covers from 1932.
http://coa.inducks.org/issue.php?c=it%2fTG++++1
http://coa.inducks.org/issue.php?c=it%2fTG++++3

If anyboby could send such a scan to me it will help me a lot.
Thanks
nele

_______________________________________________________________________
Jetzt neu! Sch?tzen Sie Ihren PC mit McAfee und WEB.DE. 30 Tage
kostenlos testen. http://www.pc-sicherheit.web.de/startseite/?mc=022220

I received this email from Phil Jones, inquiring in which Scrooge comic a
Beagle Boy used the laugh
"Har har har-de har har". Since I don't know, I'm forwarding his email to
the DCML list. I recognize this laugh from Jackie Gleason's "Honeymooners"
TV show; his character Ralph Kramden used it in many episodes, as I recall.
Best wishes, Larry Giver
*********************************************************************************************
>From: Phillip Jones <pajonesbob at comcast.net>
>Subject: Beagle Boys
>Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 10:36:37 -0700
>X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.753.1)
>
>Hi, I noticed you have an interest in Uncle Scrooge. When I was young, my
>brother and I were reading a Scrooge McDuck comic and one of the Beagle
>Boys filled the panel with his laugh. He said, "Har Har Har-de Har Har."
>My brother and I fell over laughing for about a week. All our lives we
>cracked each other up with that phrase. My brother died a few years ago
>and I miss him. I would really like to find that panel so I could frame it
>and hang it in my study. I think we were about 13 years old, so it would
>have been around 1960 or so. I understand this might be an absurdly
>misplaced request, but I thought I would give it a try. If this is not
>your thing, maybe you could direct me in some way.
>Thanks,
>Phil Jones

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/080724-disney-pixar-boom.html

Well, since Disney Adventures is no more they need *some* kind of outlet
for Pixar Comics. :)

August Paul Yang

Agreed: David Gerstein has really put a lot of effort into restoring these
early strips and it shows!

Just in case the link is breaking for some readers (it's a long URL), you
can use this one:
- *http://tinyurl.com/DisneyTreasuresMickeyTPB*

// Travis Seitler

On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 4:53 AM, Gunnarsson, Joakim SE - HMJ <
Joakim.Gunnarsson at egmont.se> wrote:

> If you don't read "Scoop" on Diamondgalleries website you might not have
> heard about the upcoming Walt Disney Treasures: Mickey Mouse in Death
> Valley!
> Follow the link below to get more info and some samples of the newly
> restored artwork that will be in the book. I don't think the artwork to
> Death Valley has looked this good since the day Gottfredson created the
> original art and sent it to the engraving room. :)
> I'm really looking forward to this edition!
>
> http://scoop.diamondgalleries.com/public/default.asp?t=1&m=1&c=34&s=259&ai=7
> 2494
>
> /Joakim.
> http://sekvenskonst.blogspot.com