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Topic: Mammy Bammy's name change in WDC 695
(10 messages)
Nectaria
Mammy Bammy's name change in WDC 695
Message 1 -
2015-06-24 at 14:36:21
Have you noticed that Mammy Bammy's name was changed to "Mama Bama" in the edited version of W OS 129-05 that appeared in Walt Disney's Comics and Stories 695? In the first One Shot Brer Rabbit issue of the Four Color series, she had her original name. I wonder why they changed her name? Maybe they thought that her original name was "racist" or maybe they changed her name because they realized that she was based on Mammy archetype? I'm so glad that they republished this story instead of "banning" it because of her "Mammy archetype" appearance. Of course, this is not the only change that they have done but they also changed some of Southern dialect dialogues like the dialogues of Narrator. I always thought that the narrator was Uncle Remus in the original version but in this edited version, the Narrator is not Uncle Remus but maybe this Narrator is a white skinned person instead. Another name change for another Uncle Remus/Brer Rabbit character was King Lion. In the original version of W OS 129-05, King Lion was called as "Brer Lion" but in his later appearances of the American comics, his name was changed to King Lion. I wonder if IDW will publish this new version or the original version? I think it would be great if the publish the original version again. Same with other BR stories that also have some of the Southern dialect dialogues changed to normal dialogues.
Thomps2525
Mammy Bammy's name change in WDC 695
Message 2 -
2015-06-24 at 22:12:57
So "Mammy Bammy" became "Mama Bama." Yes, the character of "Mammy" is now considered to be racially insensitive, but
that should not mean that the original Disney story should be re-worded. Would we try to re-word Mark Twain's Tom Sawyer Detective and Adventures Of Huckleberry Finn because they include a word which is no longer acceptable? Many of Floyd Gottfredson's Mickey Mouse comic strips feature stereotypical black characters speaking in a horrible Southern dialect but Fantagraphics has been reprinting the strips along with essays explaining how and why such stereotypical characters and language was acceptable in the 1930s-40s. The Br'er Rabbit stories should be reprinted the way they originally appeared. An accompanying essay can explain why the characters talk the way they do.
In the late 1800s, following the popularity of a song titled Old Aunt Jemima, the character of Aunt Jemima became a staple in minstrel shows and vaudeville shows. She was---and is---the most well-known example of the stereotypical "Mammy" character. Aunt Jemima was a black servant who wore a kerchief and apron and was usually portrayed by a white man in blackface. The name eventually became a brand of pancake mix and syrup. For 15 years, one of the restaurants at Disneyland was known as Aunt Jemima's and a woman dressed as Aunt Jemima would often greet guests and sing minstrel songs. The brand is now owned by the Quaker Oats Company.
History of Aunt Jemima: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aunt_Jemima
Disneyland images: http://davelandweb.com/frontierland/auntjemima.html
History of the Mammy character: http://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/mammies/
Story of lawsuit seeking $2 billion for families of women who have portrayed Aunt Jemima: http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2014/10/06/aunt-jemima-lawsuit/16799923/
Here is an early Aunt Jemima ad. Racist? Stereotypical? Umm.......

that should not mean that the original Disney story should be re-worded. Would we try to re-word Mark Twain's Tom Sawyer Detective and Adventures Of Huckleberry Finn because they include a word which is no longer acceptable? Many of Floyd Gottfredson's Mickey Mouse comic strips feature stereotypical black characters speaking in a horrible Southern dialect but Fantagraphics has been reprinting the strips along with essays explaining how and why such stereotypical characters and language was acceptable in the 1930s-40s. The Br'er Rabbit stories should be reprinted the way they originally appeared. An accompanying essay can explain why the characters talk the way they do.
In the late 1800s, following the popularity of a song titled Old Aunt Jemima, the character of Aunt Jemima became a staple in minstrel shows and vaudeville shows. She was---and is---the most well-known example of the stereotypical "Mammy" character. Aunt Jemima was a black servant who wore a kerchief and apron and was usually portrayed by a white man in blackface. The name eventually became a brand of pancake mix and syrup. For 15 years, one of the restaurants at Disneyland was known as Aunt Jemima's and a woman dressed as Aunt Jemima would often greet guests and sing minstrel songs. The brand is now owned by the Quaker Oats Company.
History of Aunt Jemima: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aunt_Jemima
Disneyland images: http://davelandweb.com/frontierland/auntjemima.html
History of the Mammy character: http://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/mammies/
Story of lawsuit seeking $2 billion for families of women who have portrayed Aunt Jemima: http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2014/10/06/aunt-jemima-lawsuit/16799923/
Here is an early Aunt Jemima ad. Racist? Stereotypical? Umm.......
Nectaria
Mammy Bammy's name change in WDC 695
Message 3 -
2015-06-25 at 00:15:12
Quote from user: Thomps2525So "Mammy Bammy" became "Mama Bama." Yes, the character of "Mammy" is now considered to be racially insensitive, but
that should not mean that the original Disney story should be re-worded. Would we try to re-word Mark Twain's Tom Sawyer Detective and Adventures Of Huckleberry Finn because they include a word which is no longer acceptable? Many of Floyd Gottfredson's Mickey Mouse comic strips feature stereotypical black characters speaking in a horrible Southern dialect but Fantagraphics has been reprinting the strips along with essays explaining how and why such stereotypical characters and language was acceptable in the 1930s-40s. The Br'er Rabbit stories should be reprinted the way they originally appeared. An accompanying essay can explain why the characters talk the way they do.
In the late 1800s, following the popularity of a song titled Old Aunt Jemima, the character of Aunt Jemima became a staple in minstrel shows and vaudeville shows. She was---and is---the most well-known example of the stereotypical "Mammy" character. Aunt Jemima was a black servant who wore a kerchief and apron and was usually portrayed by a white man in blackface. The name eventually became a brand of pancake mix and syrup. For 15 years, one of the restaurants at Disneyland was known as Aunt Jemima's and a woman dressed as Aunt Jemima would often greet guests and sing minstrel songs. The brand is now owned by the Quaker Oats Company.
History of Aunt Jemima: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aunt_Jemima
Disneyland images: http://davelandweb.com/frontierland/auntjemima.html
History of the Mammy character: http://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/mammies/
Story of lawsuit seeking $2 billion for families of women who have portrayed Aunt Jemima: http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2014/10/06/aunt-jemima-lawsuit/16799923/
Here is an early Aunt Jemima ad. Racist? Stereotypical? Umm.......

I don't think any Southern dialect dialogues or the word "Mammy" should be re-worded either in any series where some characters speaks in a Southern dialect. I have heard of some Floyd Gottfredson Mickey Mouse stories that featured blackface characters and seen some pictures with those characters before but I have no problem with them and I never found them to be racist. I agree that they should reprint Brer Rabbit stories with the original Southern dialect dialogues again instead of changing them to normal dialogues. Well, I never found Aunt Jemima to be a "racist" character either.
that should not mean that the original Disney story should be re-worded. Would we try to re-word Mark Twain's Tom Sawyer Detective and Adventures Of Huckleberry Finn because they include a word which is no longer acceptable? Many of Floyd Gottfredson's Mickey Mouse comic strips feature stereotypical black characters speaking in a horrible Southern dialect but Fantagraphics has been reprinting the strips along with essays explaining how and why such stereotypical characters and language was acceptable in the 1930s-40s. The Br'er Rabbit stories should be reprinted the way they originally appeared. An accompanying essay can explain why the characters talk the way they do.
In the late 1800s, following the popularity of a song titled Old Aunt Jemima, the character of Aunt Jemima became a staple in minstrel shows and vaudeville shows. She was---and is---the most well-known example of the stereotypical "Mammy" character. Aunt Jemima was a black servant who wore a kerchief and apron and was usually portrayed by a white man in blackface. The name eventually became a brand of pancake mix and syrup. For 15 years, one of the restaurants at Disneyland was known as Aunt Jemima's and a woman dressed as Aunt Jemima would often greet guests and sing minstrel songs. The brand is now owned by the Quaker Oats Company.
History of Aunt Jemima: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aunt_Jemima
Disneyland images: http://davelandweb.com/frontierland/auntjemima.html
History of the Mammy character: http://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/mammies/
Story of lawsuit seeking $2 billion for families of women who have portrayed Aunt Jemima: http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2014/10/06/aunt-jemima-lawsuit/16799923/
Here is an early Aunt Jemima ad. Racist? Stereotypical? Umm.......
I don't think any Southern dialect dialogues or the word "Mammy" should be re-worded either in any series where some characters speaks in a Southern dialect. I have heard of some Floyd Gottfredson Mickey Mouse stories that featured blackface characters and seen some pictures with those characters before but I have no problem with them and I never found them to be racist. I agree that they should reprint Brer Rabbit stories with the original Southern dialect dialogues again instead of changing them to normal dialogues. Well, I never found Aunt Jemima to be a "racist" character either.
Ramapith
Mammy Bammy's name change in WDC 695
Message 4 -
2015-06-25 at 23:28:22
I almost lack words, people.
We've been approved to publish dated and sometimes prejudiced 1930s-40s stories in the Fantagraphics CBL and FGL because they are expensive books aimed at adults, not so easy for kids to buy without supervision??and even so, they still always explain the old-fashioned cultural context of the stories in accompanying essays. Kind of like a disclaimer, you know?
I love the works of Barks and have devoted much of my life to promoting Gottfredson, but even I can't claim their most dated images are completely inoffensive. In some cases, we're talking about native Africans portrayed as humanized monkeys who talk like displaced Georgia hillbillies. You can go ahead and say it never offended you, but that doesn't mean it's inoffensive to everybody??especially to those whom the stereotypes were originally directed at.
In the case of Brer Rabbit??one of my favorite characters!??you'll notice that he and his crew kept their Southern dialect in the Gemstone editions of the stories, even if the most extreme elements ("Mammy," or "de" for the) were removed. I'll make no apologies for having softened things slightly for a modern magazine aimed at all ages, in which enjoyment comes before introducing things with a disclaimer. The wit and tone were still 95% intact.
(And, of course, were I to publish an adult-themed collectors' anthology, I'd prefer that the same material be unedited there??but that's because that's a different kind of product.)
There is a huge amount of racism in the USA today. Some of my friends have been hit with it. We can avoid nurturing it by not presenting, frankly, certain types of material in the wrong kind of book.
We've been approved to publish dated and sometimes prejudiced 1930s-40s stories in the Fantagraphics CBL and FGL because they are expensive books aimed at adults, not so easy for kids to buy without supervision??and even so, they still always explain the old-fashioned cultural context of the stories in accompanying essays. Kind of like a disclaimer, you know?
I love the works of Barks and have devoted much of my life to promoting Gottfredson, but even I can't claim their most dated images are completely inoffensive. In some cases, we're talking about native Africans portrayed as humanized monkeys who talk like displaced Georgia hillbillies. You can go ahead and say it never offended you, but that doesn't mean it's inoffensive to everybody??especially to those whom the stereotypes were originally directed at.
In the case of Brer Rabbit??one of my favorite characters!??you'll notice that he and his crew kept their Southern dialect in the Gemstone editions of the stories, even if the most extreme elements ("Mammy," or "de" for the) were removed. I'll make no apologies for having softened things slightly for a modern magazine aimed at all ages, in which enjoyment comes before introducing things with a disclaimer. The wit and tone were still 95% intact.
(And, of course, were I to publish an adult-themed collectors' anthology, I'd prefer that the same material be unedited there??but that's because that's a different kind of product.)
There is a huge amount of racism in the USA today. Some of my friends have been hit with it. We can avoid nurturing it by not presenting, frankly, certain types of material in the wrong kind of book.
Nectaria
Mammy Bammy's name change in WDC 695
Message 5 -
2015-06-26 at 02:54:48
Quote from user: ramapithI almost lack words, people.
We've been approved to publish dated and sometimes prejudiced 1930s-40s stories in the Fantagraphics CBL and FGL because they are expensive books aimed at adults, not so easy for kids to buy without supervision??and even so, they still always explain the old-fashioned cultural context of the stories in accompanying essays. Kind of like a disclaimer, you know?
I love the works of Barks and have devoted much of my life to promoting Gottfredson, but even I can't claim their most dated images are completely inoffensive. In some cases, we're talking about native Africans portrayed as humanized monkeys who talk like displaced Georgia hillbillies. You can go ahead and say it never offended you, but that doesn't mean it's inoffensive to everybody??especially to those whom the stereotypes were originally directed at.
In the case of Brer Rabbit??one of my favorite characters!??you'll notice that he and his crew kept their Southern dialect in the Gemstone editions of the stories, even if the most extreme elements ("Mammy," or "de" for the) were removed. I'll make no apologies for having softened things slightly for a modern magazine aimed at all ages, in which enjoyment comes before introducing things with a disclaimer. The wit and tone were still 95% intact.
(And, of course, were I to publish an adult-themed collectors' anthology, I'd prefer that the same material be unedited there??but that's because that's a different kind of product.)
There is a huge amount of racism in the USA today. Some of my friends have been hit with it. We can avoid nurturing it by not presenting, frankly, certain types of material in the wrong kind of book.
So all the library books of an artist like Carl Barks Library or Floyd Gottfredson Library were aimed at adults and not for kids? Well, I was already an adult when I buy some of the CBL books. Yes, I noticed that Brer Rabbit and other animals' Southern dialect dialogues were kept in the Gemstone editions except some of these words were changed to normal words. Maybe that the reason why you changed Mammy Bammy's name to "Mama Bama"? I think it would be great if there was a Brer Rabbit Library book series.
We've been approved to publish dated and sometimes prejudiced 1930s-40s stories in the Fantagraphics CBL and FGL because they are expensive books aimed at adults, not so easy for kids to buy without supervision??and even so, they still always explain the old-fashioned cultural context of the stories in accompanying essays. Kind of like a disclaimer, you know?
I love the works of Barks and have devoted much of my life to promoting Gottfredson, but even I can't claim their most dated images are completely inoffensive. In some cases, we're talking about native Africans portrayed as humanized monkeys who talk like displaced Georgia hillbillies. You can go ahead and say it never offended you, but that doesn't mean it's inoffensive to everybody??especially to those whom the stereotypes were originally directed at.
In the case of Brer Rabbit??one of my favorite characters!??you'll notice that he and his crew kept their Southern dialect in the Gemstone editions of the stories, even if the most extreme elements ("Mammy," or "de" for the) were removed. I'll make no apologies for having softened things slightly for a modern magazine aimed at all ages, in which enjoyment comes before introducing things with a disclaimer. The wit and tone were still 95% intact.
(And, of course, were I to publish an adult-themed collectors' anthology, I'd prefer that the same material be unedited there??but that's because that's a different kind of product.)
There is a huge amount of racism in the USA today. Some of my friends have been hit with it. We can avoid nurturing it by not presenting, frankly, certain types of material in the wrong kind of book.
So all the library books of an artist like Carl Barks Library or Floyd Gottfredson Library were aimed at adults and not for kids? Well, I was already an adult when I buy some of the CBL books. Yes, I noticed that Brer Rabbit and other animals' Southern dialect dialogues were kept in the Gemstone editions except some of these words were changed to normal words. Maybe that the reason why you changed Mammy Bammy's name to "Mama Bama"? I think it would be great if there was a Brer Rabbit Library book series.
Nectaria
Mammy Bammy's name change in WDC 695
Message 6 -
2015-07-02 at 13:13:46
According to David Gerstein on the report 6481, he said that Mammy Bammy was a relative to Brer Rabbit in one story but in which story? I know not all Wikipedia sources are correct but it said on this page that Mammy Bammy was the mother of Brer Rabbit from the original tales. If she was really Brer Rabbit's mother then why she was also called as "aunt"? I know that Remus was called as "uncle" but he was not related to Johnny.
Ramapith
Mammy Bammy's name change in WDC 695
Message 7 -
2015-07-02 at 16:28:28
The Wiki file seems to cover the Joel Chandler Harris versions of the original stories only.
In them, Mammy Bammy calls Brer Rabbit "Son Riley Rabbit" (BR's formal name is Riley)??but seemingly only as a term of endearment, the way an old lady might call any boy she doesn't know "son." BR himself never refers to Mammy Bammy as anything but his aunt.
I don't think she was ever intended to really be his mother, but I do think the Wikipedia author (as typical for Wikipedia!) misunderstood the source and inadvertently created his/her own continuity.
In them, Mammy Bammy calls Brer Rabbit "Son Riley Rabbit" (BR's formal name is Riley)??but seemingly only as a term of endearment, the way an old lady might call any boy she doesn't know "son." BR himself never refers to Mammy Bammy as anything but his aunt.
I don't think she was ever intended to really be his mother, but I do think the Wikipedia author (as typical for Wikipedia!) misunderstood the source and inadvertently created his/her own continuity.
Nectaria
Mammy Bammy's name change in WDC 695
Message 8 -
2015-07-02 at 19:23:29
Quote from user: ramapithThe Wiki file seems to cover the Joel Chandler Harris versions of the original stories only.
In them, Mammy Bammy calls Brer Rabbit "Son Riley Rabbit" (BR's formal name is Riley)??but seemingly only as a term of endearment, the way an old lady might call any boy she doesn't know "son." BR himself never refers to Mammy Bammy as anything but his aunt.
I don't think she was ever intended to really be his mother, but I do think the Wikipedia author (as typical for Wikipedia!) misunderstood the source and inadvertently created his/her own continuity.
Yes, I know that the "List of Uncle Remus/Brer Rabbit characters" page on Wikipedia only had informations about the original versions of the characters. I was not sure if all those sources were correct like Mammy Bammy being Brer Rabbit's mother. I wonder if the Wikipedia author got this source of "Mammy Bammy being BR's mother" from the scene where Mammy Bammy calls Brer Rabbit as "Son Riley Rabbit"? I know that Riley was the former name of Brer Rabbit. I have a question for you, David. It is true that Mammy Bammy was a relative to Brer Rabbit in one Disney story? If yes then please tell me the name or the code of this story.
In them, Mammy Bammy calls Brer Rabbit "Son Riley Rabbit" (BR's formal name is Riley)??but seemingly only as a term of endearment, the way an old lady might call any boy she doesn't know "son." BR himself never refers to Mammy Bammy as anything but his aunt.
I don't think she was ever intended to really be his mother, but I do think the Wikipedia author (as typical for Wikipedia!) misunderstood the source and inadvertently created his/her own continuity.
Yes, I know that the "List of Uncle Remus/Brer Rabbit characters" page on Wikipedia only had informations about the original versions of the characters. I was not sure if all those sources were correct like Mammy Bammy being Brer Rabbit's mother. I wonder if the Wikipedia author got this source of "Mammy Bammy being BR's mother" from the scene where Mammy Bammy calls Brer Rabbit as "Son Riley Rabbit"? I know that Riley was the former name of Brer Rabbit. I have a question for you, David. It is true that Mammy Bammy was a relative to Brer Rabbit in one Disney story? If yes then please tell me the name or the code of this story.
Ramapith
Mammy Bammy's name change in WDC 695
Message 9 -
2015-07-02 at 20:31:56
Brer Rabbit refers to "Aunt Mammy Bammy" in "Brer Rabbit Visits the Witch."
In that story, she is drawn with a face so much like Brer Rabbit's that??it seems rather obvious??the creative team took "aunt" literally and designed her to look like BR's biological relative. So I'd safely say that yes, they are relatives in that story.
(Also, as a writer and editor, I like the idea that he's got a supersmart witch relative who knows a bunch of magic... that's the kind of thing that comes in handy!)
Quote from user: NectariaI wonder if the Wikipedia author got this source of "Mammy Bammy being BR's mother" from the scene where Mammy Bammy calls Brer Rabbit as "Son Riley Rabbit"?
That seems pretty likely to me.
In that story, she is drawn with a face so much like Brer Rabbit's that??it seems rather obvious??the creative team took "aunt" literally and designed her to look like BR's biological relative. So I'd safely say that yes, they are relatives in that story.
(Also, as a writer and editor, I like the idea that he's got a supersmart witch relative who knows a bunch of magic... that's the kind of thing that comes in handy!)
Quote from user: NectariaI wonder if the Wikipedia author got this source of "Mammy Bammy being BR's mother" from the scene where Mammy Bammy calls Brer Rabbit as "Son Riley Rabbit"?
That seems pretty likely to me.
Nectaria
Mammy Bammy's name change in WDC 695
Message 10 -
2015-07-02 at 21:27:45
Quote from user: ramapithBrer Rabbit refers to "Aunt Mammy Bammy" in "Brer Rabbit Visits the Witch."
In that story, she is drawn with a face so much like Brer Rabbit's that??it seems rather obvious??the creative team took "aunt" literally and designed her to look like BR's biological relative. So I'd safely say that yes, they are relatives in that story.
(Also, as a writer and editor, I like the idea that he's got a supersmart witch relative who knows a bunch of magic... that's the kind of thing that comes in handy!)
Quote from user: NectariaI wonder if the Wikipedia author got this source of "Mammy Bammy being BR's mother" from the scene where Mammy Bammy calls Brer Rabbit as "Son Riley Rabbit"?
That seems pretty likely to me.
So that's the story that you were talking about in the report 6481 from CoAzilla, right? Well, I have read that story and I noticed all the scenes where Brer Rabbit called her as "Aunt Mammy Bammy" (or " Aunt Mama Bama" in the edited version from WDC 695). I was always thinking that she would be Brer Rabbit's aunt than Brer Rabbit's mother because I was thinking that his "real" mother will be a different doe who is not Mammy Bammy. I can't always trust Wikipedia and that why I ignored some of the "false" sources.
In that story, she is drawn with a face so much like Brer Rabbit's that??it seems rather obvious??the creative team took "aunt" literally and designed her to look like BR's biological relative. So I'd safely say that yes, they are relatives in that story.
(Also, as a writer and editor, I like the idea that he's got a supersmart witch relative who knows a bunch of magic... that's the kind of thing that comes in handy!)
Quote from user: NectariaI wonder if the Wikipedia author got this source of "Mammy Bammy being BR's mother" from the scene where Mammy Bammy calls Brer Rabbit as "Son Riley Rabbit"?
That seems pretty likely to me.
So that's the story that you were talking about in the report 6481 from CoAzilla, right? Well, I have read that story and I noticed all the scenes where Brer Rabbit called her as "Aunt Mammy Bammy" (or " Aunt Mama Bama" in the edited version from WDC 695). I was always thinking that she would be Brer Rabbit's aunt than Brer Rabbit's mother because I was thinking that his "real" mother will be a different doe who is not Mammy Bammy. I can't always trust Wikipedia and that why I ignored some of the "false" sources.
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