Keskustelujen arkisto

Pages: 1
Author

Topic: Disney Comics Gemstone: The Best and the Worst!

(9 messages)
WB
OK, so the comics in the states have gone PBBT but that doesn't mean the discussion on the board about said comics have done so.

Frank discussion on the stories Gemstone chose to print in thier books and what you liked/didn't like begins now. We will discuss the Gemstone Era specifically. That means - only stories that were printed DURING THE GEMSTONE ERA IN THE STATES for those a little bit slow on the uptake. :)

No Disney, No Gladstone II - and most importantly NO REPRINT DISCUSSION. Life of Scrooge is out, Supplementary stuff from Life of Scrooge that wasn't printed during Gladstone II is in. Please remember this so you can avoid getting the trap below. <83

I want us to talk about your opinion on the NEW stuff we got. Discussing the old stuff defeats the purpose of this thread so if you bring up the latest ad nauseum Carl Barks reprint or the latest ad nauseum Don Rosa reprint I will post this gif from "Invasion of the Body Snatchers".

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_oZwSBXOerBc/SLIt0yaxwFI/AAAAAAAAAG8/jdctXnEBKck/s400/image005.jpg

And then I will mock you. And laugh at you. AND THEN I WILL MAKE YOU WILL CRY MANLY TEARS (except if you're a girl then I will just make you cry). >8(

So we'll split this discussion into categories to make it easier. Don't skip a category! Feedback is important. And if you don't give proper feedback then no one will like you. >8( Feel free to comment on other's choices also. Discussion in good!

___________________________________

Favorite Long Story (over 14 pages):

Worst Long Story (over 14 pages):

Favorite Short Story (under 14 pages):

Worst Short Story (under 14 pages):

Best Multipart Story (DON'T LIST TRADE PAPERBACK STUFF):

Worst Multipart Story (DON'T LIST TRADE PAPERBACK STUFF):

Best New Character:

Worst New Character:

Best New Idea: EXAMPLE - trade paperbacks? multipart sagas, introducing new characters, etc - J.

Worst New Idea:

Favorite Trade Paperback:

Worst Trade Paperback:

Best Overall Issue:

Worst Overall Issue:

Biggest Improvement Concerning the Books:

Biggest Dissapointment Concerning the Books: (And don't say that the books were cancelled because that is obvious and will net you the picture)

Best New Artist:

Worst New Artist:

____________________________________________________________________

I'm not asking you to type out full blown paragraphs, but if you list something please remember that it would be nice to know WHY you liked or disliked something. Just listing stuff randomly doesn't help us discuss. If you don't understand my set up for this I shall make an example of my own following this post. AND GO! :)
WB
Favorite Long Story
Fatal Distraction - Byron Erickson & Massimo Fecchi
The Blot's Birthday Plot - Byron Erickson & Joaquin Sanchez
The Black Orb - Andreas Pihl & Massimo Fecchi

Long modern Mickey stories from this era are ten times better than anything we got during the Disney periods (barring The Big Fall/APhantom Blot Bedtime Story and Return to Blaggard Castle, the latter of which was sadly never reprinted. But IMHO, quite a few writers over at Egmont with the exception of a select few, still don't quite "get" or match up to what Gottfredson achieved with the character and how he made the mouse work and become interesting. Some however - were decidedly on point. My favorite one by far had to be the first story on the list. I've always said that Byron Erickson is one of my favorite Mouse writers. He gets it. While I am not a fan of "Take over the world" style melodrama from the Blot, at least here the stories he writes give The Blot that machiavellian panache that makes him Mickey's greatest foe.

The first two stories read like Scarpa Mickey tales done in a modern design with Gottfredsonian flair and I can really appreciate that: the first story, because I genuinely couldn't solve the mystery before the reveal and the second because The Blot was a grade A threat to everyone around him - which is what he absolutely needs to be to work.

The Black Orb, I listed because it really impressed me. Donald, Mickey, Goofy stories that aren't gimmicks or imaginary tales are rare in comics for whatever reason. So seeing one that wasn't "an adventure" and was just the big three having fun and doing something friendly while staying true to each character really appealed to me for some reason. There are stories that I liked better than this one mind you, but I felt this one needed mentioning.

Worst Long Story (over 14 pages):
Ring Thrice and I'll Clobber You, My Lad - Mark Shaw & Toni Bancells

The DCML really lit up when this one was printed and I can see why. Honestly the story is awful. Toni Bancells is my least favorite artist on the ducks and unfortunately, for the first year or so we were glutted with the stuff. This story also presents Daisy (whether she was possessed or not) as a mean, manipulative skank of a woman who makes you wonder why Donald even bothers tolerating her. Stories that present Daisy in this light are not my favorite by far and even Don Rosa has fallen into this trap once or twice. So dedicating an entire story to having Daisy be a **insert apprpriate curseword here** is certainly something I had no desire to read.

Favorite Short Story (under 14 pages):
Donald Duck's Fouled Up Fairy Tale

Dangit, this was just plain funny. :) And shoot, you can do no wrong with Branca anyway, so there ya go.

Worst Short Story (under 14 pages):
The Lost Suburb

This was terrible. Just. Terrible. We revisit Carl Barks' exotic location of Atlantis for THIS? There's nothing wrong with visiting Carl Barks' locations at all. Don't get me wrong but because, really, that's not the issue here. Just as I am not a fan of stories that pander to overage fanboys, I am also not a fan of stores that pander to the kiddie Barney set. I can't name a single Barks story where, after I read it I felt like I should have been embarrassed for having done so. The story itself was nonsensical and silly (the bad kind) on a molecular level and just read to me like wild kiddie fluff. And while the kids are whom ducks and mice are supposed to attract no matter what, by that same token adults should be able to enjoy it too and not wince when reading it. The only saving grace of it was Vicar's wonderful art.

Best Multipart Story:
Mythos Island

I really liked this story. It was much more "jointed and together" than The Fighting Sword of Shambor and Orb Sagas. It had the whole crew participating, and each chapter sort of made sense when you connected one to the other. Every character played a part and I appreciated that. Even if I prefer my multiparters with cliffhangers and that sense of "wanting to pick up the next chapter to see what happens next" like Murry or Gottfredson serials, this one really wasn't that bad at all and was a much better attempt than the earlier stabs at it IMO.

Worst Multipart Story:
The Orb Saga

I really WANTED to like this, but I just could not. Don't get me wrong - the ending and resolution of it is absolutely great! Especially those last couple of chapters. But the beginning and the middle is so barely held together as a coherent story with chapters that it just kind of flounders about for a while before it decides that it actually wants to go somewhere - something like a fish out of water. Took waaaaay too long for the story to get steam and make you really care anything about it. The ending worked, but everything else up to that simply did not. :(

Best New Character:
Atomo Bleep-Bleep

Atomo Bleep-Bleep is the new Eega Beeva. Something so silly that it just works and adds a new wrinkle to Mickey at the same time - that of, what I suppose, is making Mickey something of a "mentor" that isn't blatant hero worship. Atomo is charming, precocious and loveable without being a Scrappy Doo.

Worst New Character:
Sam Simian...maybe...not really sure.

The robot wrangling stories are OK. Not great, not awful. Just....OK. See it's not really the character I don't like. Sam Simian is actually kind of interesting as a braggart engineer and works better and looks more interesting as a "friendly oversized rival" for Mickey than Muscles McGurk did when we got him during Gladstone II. But his gimmick - the robot wrangler bots - are just so....eh?!?!?!!?

It feels so out of left field - even for Mickey, and I just praised Atomo Bleep-Bleep - that it doesn't work. Funnily enough, when Disney had a villain use giant robots I could get behind that. But a rival who just uses them for glorified UFC matches and nothing else of importance? Nah.

Best New Idea:
Multipart Stories that WORK & Ducks and Mice Crossing Over

Disney's attempts at multipart stories in Duck Tales were disastrous. Only the second one worked that's only in a loose way. The Mystery Weaponeer was actually a really decent story, but Mickey read like he was being written for Marvel Comics. That's why I really liked seeing Gemstone print Egmont's attempts at doing shorter serialized stories.

While I realize that Egmont's Denmark audiences do not have the same taste in serialized stories and thier approach as US audiences would I can very much appreciate what was done and enjoy what was attempted. I don't think I would have handled some of the stories EXACTLY as they would have done but I'm glad they did something new and interesting all the same.

Furthermore - I am glad to see an "extended universe" of Ducks and Mice interacting with each other. It never made any sense to me as to why they didnt and Egmont's writers do it in a plausable way. MUCH better than attempts that have been done at it before IMO.

Worst New Idea:
"Duck Overload"

WDC&S should not be a duck book with Mickey randomly popping up to say hi in the middle nor should it be a Mickey book with the Duck's letting us know they should still be there. It should be a variety book showcasing ALL the characters that don't have thier own outlet and headed by those that do (Donald) or deserve it (Mickey). Having the settlement characters pop up in there once or twice while the ducks pad it out is unacceptable also. There was absolutely no variety in almst 70-80% of Gemstone's WDC&S and that proved my biggest pain of all with it. Cancellation forcing stories to go in there or not, even Disney did it better.

I like the ducks, but I don't need them in EVERY FREAKING BOOK I CHOOSE TO READ especially when most of the stories we got in the earlier days of Gemstone weren't really that good. Yeah. I said it.

Best Trade Paperback:
World of the Dragonlords & Life and Times Companion

Dangit, I liked this. I liked this a LOT. I just freaking did. The Life of Times Companion comes as a close second and the ONLY reason it did not get first IMO was because A) most of it was partially reprint and B) it was Don Rosa revisiting his own story multiple times to add chapters to it, rather than doing something entirely new. Not knocking him for that, but I appreciated Dragonlords a heck of a more because it was heftier, meatier and wasn't a revisit. I'll probably be in the minority for that, but darnit I simply do not care. :)

Worst Trade Paperback:
Scrooge's Quest

There's already been a thread on this here. This is what happens when a mainstream comic writer who knows nothing about the characters outside of "Carl Barks wrote a few things I liked" and "Ducktales" gets a hold of the characters. This was the equivalent of Disney's Mystery Weaponeer Saga - the ducks done Marvel style. At least, as a kid, I remembered the Gold Odyssey being interesting to read. This one simply does not have that luxury. =\

Best Overall Issue:
WDC&S 690 - http://coa.inducks.org/issue.php?c=us/WDC+690

VARIETY

Worst Overall Issue:
TIE: Donald Duck Adventures #2 or Just about any WDC&S issue from the start of Gemstone

It's funny because when I made this category I instantly knew that this was the issue I'd pick. DDA2 was an embarassment and the sole issue that made me selective about what pocketbook issues I'd spend my money on. There was nothing in that issue of value. A badly drawn alien story that didn't even try to make sense or look halfway decent, Mickey Mouse as the Mad Max Roadwarrior (I HATE STORIES THAT PUT THE CHARACTERS IN ROLES THAT THEY ARE NOT AND HAVE NO RELATION TO THE MAIN CAST OR PLOT. IT IS CHEAP AND TACKY. STOP IT. STOPITSTOPITSTOPITSTOPITSTOPIT.), and Scrooge and the Ducks with badly drawn babyhead syndrome.

YUCK.

As for my other choice. See below.

Biggest Improvement and Biggest Dissapointment Concerning the Books:
Story Selection

At the start of Gemstone's matriculation, story selection from the Egmont side of the pond was extremely poor bordering on abysmal. I don't think this was done on purpose but many stories were the equivalent of reading black strap molasses. It's almost like Gemstone started out their line with the weakest stories possible. There is NO REASON WHATSOEVER that we should not have been getting Gottfredson, Scarpa, Branca, and other new talent from THE START.

None.

Best New Artist:
Lara Molinari, Miguel Pujol & Massimo Fecchi

I don't know about the rest of you guys but I really loved these three artists a *heck* of a lot. :)

Worst New Artist:
Toni Bancells & Spectrum Associates.

>8(
Cacou
Quote:It feels like, until he came on board, story selection from the Egmont side of the pond was ABYSMAL
I have to agree that the selection of Egmont stories really improved over the years. Actually, that's true as well for Italian stories, take e.g.
http://coa.inducks.org/story.php?c=I+TL+2073-1
and
http://coa.inducks.org/story.php?c=I+AT++106-A (although the dialogues in this last one were altered compared to the French version)

Regarding Tony Bancells, he did some acceptable Murry-like stories, not reprinted in the US, but I would not call him a new artist, as he started in the late 1970s.

Still, this is a slightly sad topic, given the state of Disney comics publications right now in the US...
Roger North
My Favorite story from the Gemstone Era is Mythos Island in Walt Disney's Comics and Stories #657-661 because they used a lot of characters from the Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck Universes. It is the best multipart story in my opinion. My least favorite story is Skeptics and Sorcery in Mickey Mouse and Friends #283 because it showed Magica winning and that was the most disturbing story I have ever read. My favorite Tradepaperback is The Life and Times of Scrooge McDuck Companion because it has all the stories that have to do with The Life and Times of Scrooge McDuck series. My least favorite tradepaperback is World of the Dragonlords because the storyline seems non traditional for a Disney Comic. I think the best new idea is adding Launchpad McQuack to the mainstream Duck Universe because he is a cool character. I think the worst new idea is limiting the comic books to the Prestige Format issues. They should have at least kept the standard format issues. I think the best new character is Sly K Switcheroo. He is a good antagonist for Scrooge. I think the worst new character is Sam Simian because he seems like a ripoff from Muscles McGurk. I think the best overall issue is Uncle Scrooge #350 because it has a lot of good stories. I think the worst overall issue is Walt Disney's Comics and Stories #666 because it has very few stories and I find the Mickey's Inferno story quite disturbing. I think the best new artist is Noel Van Horn and the worst new artist is Tino Santanach. I think the biggest inprovement was then they started making Tradepaperbacks and the biggest disappointment was when they cancelled most of their regular comic books.
There you have it. That's my list of the best and worst of Gemstone.
WB
Quote from user: cacouI have to agree that the selection of Egmont stories really improved over the years. Actually, that's true as well for Italian stories, take e.g.
http://coa.inducks.org/story.php?c=I+TL+2073-1
and
http://coa.inducks.org/story.php?c=I+AT++106-A (although the dialogues in this last one were altered compared to the French version)

Oh yes, two personal favorites of mine. Snappy dialogue does a lot for a story over here. I don't think we actually got a "bad" Cavazzano story in the entire run. :)

And it was wonderful to see Scarpa material in print here beyond his earliest years as we had been getting.

Quote:Regarding Tony Bancells, he did some acceptable Murry-like stories, not reprinted in the US, but I would not call him a new artist, as he started in the late 1970s.
Ah, I see. He was new to us as (I don't think) we ever got any of his work stateside before Gemstone. I'm probably a little biased in my own dislike of the man's work but honestly I'd rather see any other artist than yet another Murry imitator. Most Murry imitators seem to be a dime a dozen and none of them actually that good. Sorry, just my humble opinion. I stand by my previous statements that the only person who can make Paul Murry's style interesting is Paul Murry. And even his later artwork suffered, so yuck. =|

Quote:Still, this is a slightly sad topic, given the state of Disney comics publications right now in the US...
Regardless of what's happening now on this side of the water, that doesn't mean that everyone should be gloom and doom. The point of this thread is to continue discussing things in as jolly a manner as one can because there's no elling what could lay on the horizon tomorrow. I guess I'm just one of those annoyingly cheery Mickey Mouse optimists. :)

Besides which I think the situation we're in now is FAR FAR better than the situation the states were in when Gold/Key/Dell/Whitman dropped off the map. One could consider forever the who's-to-blames and what-will-happens but that does no good to mope. It is what it is and it will be what will be and we can hope for a best.

There's always another rainbow. :)

Quote:My least favorite trade paperback is World of the Dragonlords because the storyline seems non traditional for a Disney Comic .
See - this is where I disagree. I liked that it was non-traditional story but RESPECTED the traditions of the characters. What I mean is - the Disney characters CAN work in nontraditional stories but the non-traditional stories MUST RESPECT what came before it and thats what I liked about Dragonlords. Donald still felt like Donald, Scrooge still felt like Scrooge, HDL still felt like HDL. They even looked the same and the artwork was 100% up to par. Only thing different were the environment and the side characters surrounding them.

As opposed to Dragonlords, look at the Ducktales trades - specifically Scrooge's Quest where all the characters felt like they were living in a condensed Marvel comic and that setting was a more traditional one all the time.

Dragonlords just felt like a very epic "something different" and while that's something that can't be done all the time, I can REALLY appreciate it when someone (in this case Byron Erickson) took that something different and did it with some class in reference to the characters. We did not get hackneyed Donald the Barbarian or weak attempts at humor, blood and gore, but a grand adventure in a world very different as the Ducks got separated from each other, tried to find a way home, got embroiled quite by accident in this worlds politics, and at the end - learned how to appreciate one another as a familial unit. I would not call it a failure because it dared to do that by any means. Honestly - given other non-traditional stories or traditional stories told in a non-traditional way (Disney's Mickey's or the Ducktales stuff being a prime example) this was IMO a way of showing how to approach that type of story and doing it RIGHT.

Quote:I think the best new idea is adding Launchpad McQuack to the mainstream Duck Universe because he is a cool character.
Agreed. I have missed him quite a bit - and while I still think he works better with Darkwing - I like seeing him approached as a Gyro Gearloose type side character. One who doesn't get in the way, adds a new wrinkle, and doesn't take the place of Donald as he used to once upon a time.

Quote:I think the worst new idea is limiting the comic books to the Prestige Format issues. They should have at least kept the standard format issues.
This.

A thousand times this.

I have argued a million times of my disdain for the prestige format and how it locks out kids with disposable income from picking up the comics and/or being accessible to them.

This reeked of pandering to the overage fanboy collectors market, pure and simple.

Quote:I think the best new character is Sly K Switcheroo. He is a good antagonist for Scrooge.
Couldn't get behind him. He's an interesting character with an interesting gimmick behind him, and certainly not the worst new one by any means, but I think the way his gimmick was presented was rather unbelievable. His ability to "con anyone" only succeeded in making Scrooge look like a moron rather than them actually being clever cons that could genuinely work. Honestly I was rather dissapointed at the ends of every story with him because I felt him too obvious.

If you want to talk "new and interesting Scrooge villains" I personally liked Melvin X. Nickelby (a fat coin collector who wants the #1 dime by any means necessary simply for its value as something to look at - Something we already know Scrooge hates as far as coin collectors go) or Tachyon Farflung (a melodramatically evil space monkey robber. YOU SIMPLY CANNOT GO WRONG WITH EVIL SPACE MONKEY ROBBERS. :D)

Quote:I think the worst new character is Sam Simian because he seems like a ripoff from Muscles McGurk.
See - here's where I had a problem with my own selection.

I don't really like Muscles McGurk. Design is kind of weird and he just always felt to me like a "random no-name thug".

I didn't like Sam Simian because the approach to his character was too farfetched for the Mouse universe to be anything resembling respectable.

HOWEVER

I think that Sam Simian - in design and personality alone - fits the mold that Muscles McGurk tries to play via the writers far better than Muscles McGurk.

If Sam Simian was played in the role of McGurk - without the robots - as Mickey's big overimposing mildly-thuggish rival then he'd be a lot more interesting to read about. As it stands, the premise of those robots just kill the character and the Mickey stories that they are in each and every time.

They'd work better if they were simply creations or something hijacked from the Ex Professors.

Quote:I think the worst overall issue is Walt Disney's Comics and Stories #666 because it has very few stories and I find the Mickey's Inferno story quite disturbing.
Mickey's Inferno was an odd duck on every conceivable level. I liked it mind you, but I wouldn't want to see that type of thing all the time.

Quote:I think the best new artist is Noel Van Horn and the worst new artist is Tino Santanach.
I adore Noel Van Horn. He takes a WVH approach to Mickey that I didn't think could be done and dials it down just enough to work. I would arguably call him the modern master of the short Mickey story. His Mickey is just so much fun to look at and read. He really has come into his own and I wish we'd a gotten quite a lot more of him.

As for Tino Santanach....I'll keep my comments to myself. -_-

Quote:I think the biggest inprovement was then they started making Tradepaperbacks and the biggest disappointment was when they cancelled most of their regular comic books.
For all that money they funneled into trades and specials, we could have kept the newsstand books if nothing else going. I didn't mind the trades, but the specials were almost all lame seasonal stories or reprints. Only special I thought was remotely worth it was probably the Daan Jippes one, but we'd seen a lot of that material too... :(

I like how Egmont just had one giant pocketbook on crappier paper. I think that would have been a better than than 2 with GREAT paper and a higher cost. But...I'm kind of talking out of my behind here as none of us really know the full costs of print and the economy being what it is already.
Roger North
I kind of liked Duck Tales in Scrooge's Quest. It was an interesting storyline. It had Scrooge facing has his primary adversaries all in the same story. The only stories that showed them are in Ten Penny Opera (Uncle Scrooge and Donald Duck) and A Little Something Special. I mean sure World of The Dragonlords had the characters act the same as they did but the universe they were in was so bizarre.
I don't think of Launchpad as a Gyro ripoff or a ripoff from any other character. He's his own character in a way. Of Course I can't change your mind. You're disagreeable about almost everything that I said.
Stavner
Quote:I think the best new idea is adding Launchpad McQuack to the mainstream Duck Universe because he is a cool character.
I agree with you about that! I'd like to try something similar with the Disney Afternoon characters like Gadget....
WB
Quote from user: Roger NorthOf Course I can't change your mind. You're disagreeable about almost everything that I said.
I never expected you to change my mind about anything and you're coming to a conclusion about the point of the topic (and my response to it) that wasn't meant to be. I wasn't being disagreeable at all, Roger. (Trust me, you'd know when I was being disagreeable. :P ) I was only discussing the points you brought up in reference to my own feelings and thoughts - comparing and contrasting. I wasn't trying to give the impression that your own thoughts were bad or wrong by any means. Discussing our likes and dislikes and defending why we agree/disagree on stuff is the whole point of a message board discussion - which is what I'm trying to jump start here. I.E. talking about each others likes and dislikes/ideas and thoughts on a forum of people who share the same interests rather than parrot the others all the time in a "me too" manner.

Nobody's snapping or being disagreeable at anybody for having a different opinion than the other. :P

Anyway -

What about Dragonlords was so bizarre to you? the human side characters? the sword and sorcery aspect or just the setting in general?
Roger North
I think it's mainly the swords and sorcerery that make it bizarre to me altough the background characters being humans make it twice as puzzling. I know Carl Barks had some humans in some of his stories but that was before Disney made the rule to make the background characters anthropomorphized animals in the Duck and Mouse Stories.
Pages: 1