Amazon is listing the book "The Floyd Gottfredson Library: The Best of Mickey Mouse - Daily Strips 1930-1933", with description, ISBN number etc, to be released August 2008.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1603600434/
This must be the first volume of the previously rumoured Gottfredson Library.
Unfortunately the "Best of" in the title indicates that the collection will not be complete, as does the announced number of pages. 360 pages in 11 x 8.5" (28 x 21,6 cm) format will hardly be enough for all the daily strips from the four year period.
Author
Topic: Upcoming Gottfredson Library - what will be missing?
(50 messages)
JAlbertsen
Upcoming Gottfredson Library - what will be missing?
Message 1 -
2007-11-13 at 12:55:38
Olivier
Upcoming Gottfredson Library - what will be missing?
Message 2 -
2007-11-14 at 00:17:44
Here's Gary Leach's reply on the DCML:
Quote from user: Gary LeachI haven't seen a definitive rundown on the contents of the Gottfredson books, so I can't speak to what will finally be in them. It is my understanding, though, that there are restrictions on some of the earliest strips, due to their content.
Disney does have great enthusiasm for this project, and wants to see it happen. From what I gather, and for what it's worth, they're as disappointed as we are that there are some strips they just can't see their way to allowing to be reproduced.
:(
Quote from user: Gary LeachI haven't seen a definitive rundown on the contents of the Gottfredson books, so I can't speak to what will finally be in them. It is my understanding, though, that there are restrictions on some of the earliest strips, due to their content.
Disney does have great enthusiasm for this project, and wants to see it happen. From what I gather, and for what it's worth, they're as disappointed as we are that there are some strips they just can't see their way to allowing to be reproduced.
:(
Hedberg
Upcoming Gottfredson Library - what will be missing?
Message 3 -
2007-11-14 at 04:13:12
:(
For what it's worth...
We already got the censored Gottfredson - why reprint it?
For what it's worth...
We already got the censored Gottfredson - why reprint it?
JAlbertsen
Upcoming Gottfredson Library - what will be missing?
Message 4 -
2007-11-14 at 10:34:21
Even though the library isn't complete it might still be a good way to get these wonderfull stories. I just really hope that the stories they choose to bring will contain all the original panels without any alterations. It's also rather important for me to have the material presented as strips.
Anemo
Upcoming Gottfredson Library - what will be missing?
Message 5 -
2007-11-14 at 14:56:21
Looks interesting. Good for people like me who just started collecting Disney comics.
Sirredknee
Upcoming Gottfredson Library - what will be missing?
Message 6 -
2007-11-14 at 16:06:34
Quote from user: JAlbertsenThis must be the first volume of the previously rumoured Gottfredson Library.
This must rather be a joke. And a very, very bad one at that.
This must rather be a joke. And a very, very bad one at that.
Lars Jensen
Upcoming Gottfredson Library - what will be missing?
Message 7 -
2007-11-15 at 13:51:02
Quote from user: sirredkneeQuote from user: JAlbertsenThis must be the first volume of the previously rumoured Gottfredson Library.
This must rather be a joke. And a very, very bad one at that.
How so?
This must rather be a joke. And a very, very bad one at that.
How so?
Sirredknee
Upcoming Gottfredson Library - what will be missing?
Message 8 -
2007-11-15 at 16:47:58
How so? Possibly because I hate censorship. I am very surprised it's possible to release Disney cartoons with problematic content, but - that's the way I am interpreting the news - impossible to do the same with Disney comics. Isn't this very strange, considering a cartoon is much more likely to grab the attention of a left-alone, easily manipulable child and potential future racist than an old-fashioned, very wordy (I am talking about early Gottfredson), black and white newspaper strip?
The target audience of a Gottfredson Library would surely consist of grown-up, mature Disney comic fans as well as folk interested in the history of comics in general (and, of course, the whole picture of it!). You'd like to think they're all able to think and judge for themselves, and even if they can't you can make use of long-winded prefaces to point out that some of bad old Floyd's material does indeed contain racist stereotypes and prejudices out of its day.
So why is it there always have to be one or two people who feel entitled to rain on the fun of thousands? Do they censor just to revel in their own "importance"? I've been waiting for a Gottfredson Library for I don??t know how many years and now they've just lost a buyer. Give me everything (at least up to 1955) or nothing at all.
The target audience of a Gottfredson Library would surely consist of grown-up, mature Disney comic fans as well as folk interested in the history of comics in general (and, of course, the whole picture of it!). You'd like to think they're all able to think and judge for themselves, and even if they can't you can make use of long-winded prefaces to point out that some of bad old Floyd's material does indeed contain racist stereotypes and prejudices out of its day.
So why is it there always have to be one or two people who feel entitled to rain on the fun of thousands? Do they censor just to revel in their own "importance"? I've been waiting for a Gottfredson Library for I don??t know how many years and now they've just lost a buyer. Give me everything (at least up to 1955) or nothing at all.
Olivier
Upcoming Gottfredson Library - what will be missing?
Message 9 -
2007-11-15 at 17:47:13
Quote from user: sirredkneea cartoon is much more likely to grab the attention of a left-alone, easily manipulable child and potential future racist than an old-fashioned, very wordy (I am talking about early Gottfredson), black and white newspaper strip?
To quote (from memory) Gottfredson to Barks: violence is less acceptable in print than in the animated features, because on screen it's only there for a few fleeting seconds, whereas it stays on the page and you can contemplate it as long as you wish.
And here is a copy of my reply on the DCML...
I almost wrote "how come they can allow 'contrversial' animated shorts to be released on DVD, but cannot allow similar strips to be reprinted?", but then, I suppose the print & video media are two very separate branches.
The release of those animated features, with Leonard Maltin's introductions, was extremeley improtant in itself, and because it meant the same could be done with the strips (with special notes).
It's a terrible shame.
Even though there *were* stereotypes, they never served a racist ideology.
The Company's policy on this subject is rather incoherent, anyway: "The Phantom Blot" can be reprinted, even though one might also argue that the stereotype of the Irish police officers is incorrect, especially as they are shown to be incompetent. Will the stereotypical Italian fruit vendors in several stories have their dialogue changed to proper English so as not to vex Italians?
Aren't they aware that this can only foster the illegal distribution of scans of those stories?
Moreover, even though the art was altered in some stories, all of Barks' stories have been published, including the only two rejected ones (Donald the milkman and the delightful "Silent Night").
The adventures set in stereotypical Africa have been reprinted several times; will the Disney Company ban them now and prohibit their reprinting in comics or a new Barks Library, or will they make an exception for Barks?
This is most unfair to Gottfredson.
One might also argue that the Disney Company is actually perpetuating the very stereotypical superiority of Whites over Blacks by preventing the latter to read stories they would find offending because they are not cultivated or intelligent enough to understand the context and see they are often pretty harmless.
To this, I will now add that applying the Walt Disney Company's principle (and similar ones) would deprive us of a great number of the world's best literature and movies.
http://bobcat74.free.fr/obemoticons/disney/mouse/mck00001.giflivier
To quote (from memory) Gottfredson to Barks: violence is less acceptable in print than in the animated features, because on screen it's only there for a few fleeting seconds, whereas it stays on the page and you can contemplate it as long as you wish.
And here is a copy of my reply on the DCML...
I almost wrote "how come they can allow 'contrversial' animated shorts to be released on DVD, but cannot allow similar strips to be reprinted?", but then, I suppose the print & video media are two very separate branches.
The release of those animated features, with Leonard Maltin's introductions, was extremeley improtant in itself, and because it meant the same could be done with the strips (with special notes).
It's a terrible shame.
Even though there *were* stereotypes, they never served a racist ideology.
The Company's policy on this subject is rather incoherent, anyway: "The Phantom Blot" can be reprinted, even though one might also argue that the stereotype of the Irish police officers is incorrect, especially as they are shown to be incompetent. Will the stereotypical Italian fruit vendors in several stories have their dialogue changed to proper English so as not to vex Italians?
Aren't they aware that this can only foster the illegal distribution of scans of those stories?
Moreover, even though the art was altered in some stories, all of Barks' stories have been published, including the only two rejected ones (Donald the milkman and the delightful "Silent Night").
The adventures set in stereotypical Africa have been reprinted several times; will the Disney Company ban them now and prohibit their reprinting in comics or a new Barks Library, or will they make an exception for Barks?
This is most unfair to Gottfredson.
One might also argue that the Disney Company is actually perpetuating the very stereotypical superiority of Whites over Blacks by preventing the latter to read stories they would find offending because they are not cultivated or intelligent enough to understand the context and see they are often pretty harmless.
To this, I will now add that applying the Walt Disney Company's principle (and similar ones) would deprive us of a great number of the world's best literature and movies.
http://bobcat74.free.fr/obemoticons/disney/mouse/mck00001.giflivier
Gyro Gearloose
Upcoming Gottfredson Library - what will be missing?
Message 10 -
2007-11-15 at 18:04:32
Actually, the Barks library was censored too; the natives in Voodoo Hoodoo (and Bop Bop, the jazz musician) were partially redrawn (the natives lost sharpened teeth and nose rings, and Bop Bop switched from a black Louis Armstrong type to a white musician), and the dialogue of Donald's native bearers was altered to read more grammatically. Also, Treasure of Marco Polo's dialogue was censored to pieces, with all the references to Wahn Beeg Rhat's men as "rebels" and all the original's implied sympathy for monarchy as opposed to rebel dictatorships expunged (Wahn Beeg Rhat is presented instead as an enemy general who wants to be king of Unsteadystan).
I completely agree with Oliver and Sirredknee; I'm not buying a censored collection of Gottfredson stories (just as I won't buy censored Barks stories; I fortunately managed to find an unexpurgated version of Marco Polo, though I'm still looking for an affordable copy of the original Voodoo Hoodoo). Accepting these is admitting that the Disney Company's policies are right and proper, and I won't do that. I was very disappointed to find (via Beru's Comic Page) that the recent Gemstone release of Mickey Mouse in the Foreign Legion was censored to remove any possible "colonialist" dialogue and to alter the appearances of two North African policemen. That made up my mind not to buy those issues there and then. I urge other fans to hold out against censored versions, and then maybe Gemstone can get Disney to release these classics un-tampered with, even if accompanied by long-winded introductions (which I'd happily put up with if we could just get the original stories).
I completely agree with Oliver and Sirredknee; I'm not buying a censored collection of Gottfredson stories (just as I won't buy censored Barks stories; I fortunately managed to find an unexpurgated version of Marco Polo, though I'm still looking for an affordable copy of the original Voodoo Hoodoo). Accepting these is admitting that the Disney Company's policies are right and proper, and I won't do that. I was very disappointed to find (via Beru's Comic Page) that the recent Gemstone release of Mickey Mouse in the Foreign Legion was censored to remove any possible "colonialist" dialogue and to alter the appearances of two North African policemen. That made up my mind not to buy those issues there and then. I urge other fans to hold out against censored versions, and then maybe Gemstone can get Disney to release these classics un-tampered with, even if accompanied by long-winded introductions (which I'd happily put up with if we could just get the original stories).
Olivier
Upcoming Gottfredson Library - what will be missing?
Message 11 -
2007-11-15 at 18:35:54
I know these stories have been altered-- I thought I had written it.
My point is that, even if in an altered form, all of Barks' "controversial" stories have been reprinted several times.
Why the double standard? Why punish Gottfredson (his ghost, so to speak) but let Barks go with but a pat on the head?
My point is that, even if in an altered form, all of Barks' "controversial" stories have been reprinted several times.
Why the double standard? Why punish Gottfredson (his ghost, so to speak) but let Barks go with but a pat on the head?
Olivier
Upcoming Gottfredson Library - what will be missing?
Message 12 -
2007-11-15 at 18:51:53
Quote from user: Gyro GearlooseI urge other fans to hold out against censored versions, and then maybe Gemstone can get Disney to release these classics un-tampered with, even if accompanied by long-winded introductions (which I'd happily put up with if we could just get the original stories).
The might Walt Disney Company will not heed the disapointment of a few hundreds.
Thousands of people who don't even know who Gottfredson is, let alone that many stories are missing (and for such a reason), will buy the "Mickey Mouse" books, and that is all the Disney Company will take into account.
The might Walt Disney Company will not heed the disapointment of a few hundreds.
Thousands of people who don't even know who Gottfredson is, let alone that many stories are missing (and for such a reason), will buy the "Mickey Mouse" books, and that is all the Disney Company will take into account.
JAlbertsen
Upcoming Gottfredson Library - what will be missing?
Message 13 -
2007-11-15 at 22:22:02
Quote from user: Gyro GearlooseI urge other fans to hold out against censored versions
Well I'm going to buy it anyway. I always prefer to comics in hardback books instead of magazines, and I just can't say no when it's on sale for such a low price. $40 for 360 pages is a better bargain than the usual 7,99 for 68 pages, and this is all Gottfredson, remember?
Well I'm going to buy it anyway. I always prefer to comics in hardback books instead of magazines, and I just can't say no when it's on sale for such a low price. $40 for 360 pages is a better bargain than the usual 7,99 for 68 pages, and this is all Gottfredson, remember?
Gyro Gearloose
Upcoming Gottfredson Library - what will be missing?
Message 14 -
2007-11-16 at 00:37:55
Quote from user: Roger NorthMost modern Disney Comic Fans wouldn't know the difference between the censored and uncensored versions unless they happen to be long time collectors anyway. I just enjoy the story for what it is.
Well, Roger, the story won't be "what it is"--that is, what it was originally created as by Gottfredson, Ted Osborne, and Merril DeMaris--but will rather be what some board of editorial consultants decides it should be. Just because someone doesn't know that they're reading an edited and censored story doesn't make it OK to harm that story; many modern people wouldn't know the difference if you edited or revised sections of Shakespeare's plays or removed "offensive" sequences from old movies, but that wouldn't make such activities right.
Oliver, I'm sorry for not noticing your points about Barks too being edited in your post. It is true that even censored publication of Gottfredson's stories has been held off much longer than similar publications of Barks stories. My point is principally that we shouldn't be happy just because Gottfredson is now getting the same shabby reprint treatment that some of Barks' stories recieved. Supposedly, Gladstone refrained from publishing "Mickey Mouse in Sky Island" in their old Mickey Mouse in Color collection when Disney told them they had to change Dr. Einmug's name and Americanize his dialogue; they preferred not to print the story at all rather than to censor it. And yet the tale eventually saw print (under Disney Comics, yet!) unexpurgated. I wish Gemstone would stick to their guns in a similar fashion.
Well, Roger, the story won't be "what it is"--that is, what it was originally created as by Gottfredson, Ted Osborne, and Merril DeMaris--but will rather be what some board of editorial consultants decides it should be. Just because someone doesn't know that they're reading an edited and censored story doesn't make it OK to harm that story; many modern people wouldn't know the difference if you edited or revised sections of Shakespeare's plays or removed "offensive" sequences from old movies, but that wouldn't make such activities right.
Oliver, I'm sorry for not noticing your points about Barks too being edited in your post. It is true that even censored publication of Gottfredson's stories has been held off much longer than similar publications of Barks stories. My point is principally that we shouldn't be happy just because Gottfredson is now getting the same shabby reprint treatment that some of Barks' stories recieved. Supposedly, Gladstone refrained from publishing "Mickey Mouse in Sky Island" in their old Mickey Mouse in Color collection when Disney told them they had to change Dr. Einmug's name and Americanize his dialogue; they preferred not to print the story at all rather than to censor it. And yet the tale eventually saw print (under Disney Comics, yet!) unexpurgated. I wish Gemstone would stick to their guns in a similar fashion.
Gyro Gearloose
Upcoming Gottfredson Library - what will be missing?
Message 15 -
2007-11-16 at 00:40:15
Quote from user: JAlbertsenQuote from user: Gyro GearlooseI urge other fans to hold out against censored versions
Well I'm going to buy it anyway. I always prefer to comics in hardback books instead of magazines, and I just can't say no when it's on sale for such a low price. $40 for 360 pages is a better bargain than the usual 7,99 for 68 pages, and this is all Gottfredson, remember?
Nope, it's not all Gottfredson; I'm willing to bet that chunks of some stories' dialogue and minor artwork details will be the work of Gemstone/Disney editors. If I just thought Gemstone was ommitting "offensive" sequences in toto but printing remaining ones unaltered, I might buy the book, but given the precedent of their "Mickey Mouse in the Foreign Legion" reprinting, they will almost certainly tinker with stories to make them more "acceptable."
Well I'm going to buy it anyway. I always prefer to comics in hardback books instead of magazines, and I just can't say no when it's on sale for such a low price. $40 for 360 pages is a better bargain than the usual 7,99 for 68 pages, and this is all Gottfredson, remember?
Nope, it's not all Gottfredson; I'm willing to bet that chunks of some stories' dialogue and minor artwork details will be the work of Gemstone/Disney editors. If I just thought Gemstone was ommitting "offensive" sequences in toto but printing remaining ones unaltered, I might buy the book, but given the precedent of their "Mickey Mouse in the Foreign Legion" reprinting, they will almost certainly tinker with stories to make them more "acceptable."