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Topic: The Gemstone Price Breakdown

(25 messages)
Texcap
I continue to see criticism of Gemstone's cover prices online and in an effort to discuss it, or at least understand it,
I came up with the following several months ago and thought it worth posting here with a few revisions given the
audience:

It's been a lot of fun seeing new people discover Gemstone's Disney's comics the last several years, and even more
so when I've been able to enter into extended conversations with them about the latest Carl Barks reprint, one of
Don Rosa's adventures, or what the McGreal's are up to, etc. But one of the things I often see rear its head during
these conversations is the price-point of Gemstone's books. And, frankly, I think there's a bit of a misunderstanding
at play. But let me explain. Often I see folks a little "sticker shocked" at the $7.99 cover price, exclaiming that
it's 'just too much to pay.' But what I don't quite get about this is that these same people are willing to pick up the
equivalent of 3-regular sized comic books without the same reservation.

Here again I submit that the Gemstone books are actually a great[er] value than their 3-comic equivalent. Which is
something that our friend Scrooge would stand and take notice of! For example, in the recently solicited Uncle Scrooge
#374 we got 64-pages of uninterrupted comic stories, historical publishing data and a letter's page. Additionally, the book
features high production values (including the thicker paper) and a hard stock cover. Excluding any other special
features that they regularly feature. This, at the cover price of $7.99.

I compared this to a random DC comic priced at $2.99 in which you get 23-pages of actual comic story + a 1-page editorial
piece on lesser quality paper. If I assume a similar format for 2 additional comics for at total of 69-pages of actual comics story
at $8.97 then the prices are extremely comparable for the amount of content. Throw in the additional production values, the
text pieces, etc. in the Gemstone volumes and they're easily the greater bargain for the money -- at least, any way I can honestly
approach it. And as for the quality of that comic content, well, too often these days -- there's absolutely no comparison! But
I do recognize a little bias there.


......

Seriously, I certainly understand the argument that a reader might not have $7.99 to spend on comics (gas prices are nuts!) but
I don't feel the criticism is a valid one when we take into consideration the actual content & production values for the money. At least
not when compared with prices elsewhere throughout the industry.

Feel free to comment if you've got 'em!
Roger North
Texcap I wish Gemstone would lower their prices too but it doesn't look like they're going to.
Texcap
Well, I can agree with you that it would be nice to see prices go down in general, I'm always
for that. Rather, my argument is simply that Gemstone is actually a greater value than it's four-color
brethren -- that for the money we're actually getting a pretty good value dollar for dollar in
a direct comparison.

Thanks for chiming in Roger.
Ramapith
And thanks for making that point, Texcap. A lot of pundits in the comics world simply seem to presume that the combination of "Disney comics" and "$7.99" must mean "Disney comics of the traditional $2.95 variety, but inexplicably sold for $7.99."
It hasn't even dawned on them that what we're selling is actually a thicker trade paperback type of collection, and priced competitively for what you get!
Mcduck_Enterprises
I'll pay more for Gemstone. I don't care about pricing.....because it is correct to say "there is more there for your money." I used to get so darn tired reading 20 page stories.... and that's it per month. I can sit down and really enjoy a Gemstone for about an hour....and then re-read later. Not that I'm bragging financial ability to do so or clapping for a price hike...but I think it's a brilliant company with a good well-structured price per book. If it were 8 bucks for a 20 page story, I probably wouldn't be on this forum right now. As long as they keep coming, I think they're dead on the money. Cheers.
Roger North
Quote from user: TexcapWell, I can agree with you that it would be nice to see prices go down in general, I'm always
for that. Rather, my argument is simply that Gemstone is actually a greater value than it's four-color
brethren -- that for the money we're actually getting a pretty good value dollar for dollar in
a direct comparison.

Thanks for chiming in Roger.

You're Welcome Texcap.
Roger North
Is that why they're so high ramapith? Did you ever think about at least shaving at least 2 or 3 dollars off the cover price? I'm sure more bookstores will take them if you did that and you would get a lot of new readers if you lower the price. Of Course it's just a suggestion.
Ramapith
Quote from user: me[Our monthly titles are actually] trade paperback type of collection[s], and priced competitively for what you get!
Quote from user: Roger NorthIs that why [your prices are] so high ramapith?
Oops, I made it sound like we priced them "competitively" without regard to whether they could actually be cheaper!
Honestly, though, we can't make our monthlies any cheaper?we price them as cheaply as possible given printing and distribution costs. I was only trying to say that our prices compare favorably with our competition, not that we could price them differently if we wanted.

At the very start in 1996, Gladstone's 64-page prestige comics cost $5.95. This became $6.95 in early 1997, a price that Gemstone maintained when taking over in 2003. We managed to keep it that way until late 2006, when we got hit by an awful rise in paper costs. We balanced things out so that we were able to raise the price in steps; first to $7.50, then $7.99. Luckily, we've managed to keep it at $7.99 for more than a year since then.

Sometimes we'll do a prestige one-shot that's the same length as our monthlies, but slightly more expensive (i. e. "The Case of the Missing Mummy" or The Barks-Rosa Collection Vol 1). The price is a bit higher there because we can't sell subscriptions to those titles, so need to make the profit margin at bookstores a little larger to cover the subscription revenue lost.
JeffT
I think it's mostly sticker shock that a monthly book costs that much. If they were to come out 4 or 5 times a year at $19.99 (for a thicker trade collection), people wouldn't even blink. At least no one I know would, because that is how they've become used to buying their other books.
Still, when WDCS, US, and a Spring Special all come out the same week, you're spending $25 or so on one Wednesday for all your Disney books at once, and that can be a bit daunting. :)
Mvblair
$7.95 is very expensive for me. $2.95 is very expensive for what Marvel and DC spin out, although I never buy their comics.
I wouldn't mind a hit in the quality of the paper or color if it meant the comics would be cheaper by a couple dollars. I read the comics for the stories, not the "collectibility" factors of the comics.
One great thing about comics today are all the wonderful reprints that are being done. Marvel and DC do a super job printing those enormous volumes on newsprint for only $20. And Harvey's "Classics" reprints of Casper, Baby Huey, and Richie Rich are even better. Those are 500 pages for $20 on nice, slick paper with maybe 40 pages of color. Heck, even "The Life and Times of Uncle Scrooge" was a great deal at $17 for 250 pages.
So, I guess that compared to those books, the current Gemstone prices are very high for me. Because it's so high for me, I don't buy every issue. Just the ones that have fun-looking stories.
JeffT
mvblair, to me they ALL have fun looking stories! :) Plus, I share them with two other people (my sons), so we end up getting our money's worth in the end I suppose. Still, I've said it before on this board, if I could get the books for 3 dollars cheaper on lower grade paper or without the cardstock covers, I'd be more than content. Alternately, quarterly trades of about 250 pages for around the Life and Times of Scrooge price point (staggered so there are not two or three on any given month/week). The latter would have the added bonus of potential book store sales.
Texcap
Quote from user: mvblairI wouldn't mind a hit in the quality of the paper or color if it meant the comics would be
cheaper by a couple dollars. I read the comics for the stories, not the "collectibility" factors of the comics.

It should definitely be about the stories, first, absolutely. But I have to admit that I think Gemstone is juggling
pure entertainment and the "collectibility" aspect pretty darn well. But more on that below.

Ideally, I'd like to see the 32-page "booklet" return in addition to the format used for Uncle
Scrooge
and WDC&S. As was the case with Donald Duck & Friends, etc. it allowed us
things like a 10-page Barks story, and a couple of other back-up tales for the money and was almost always
worth the investment, IMHO. Also, with the 32-pager I don't think we'd have to have the highest quality
paper, et al, and that Gemstone could manage a competitive price with the rest of the industry, or an
even lower price-point. This would be ideal for comic fans on a budget in need of some Disney stories.
I'd also think that there would be a market for the "digest" books akin to what Archie puts out month after
month to so much success. Those are in full color and, while small, provide a lot of bang for the buck at
$2-3. I know I'd be snatching them up for me and my nieces.

But costs for the different formats can't be easy to juggle and in all honesty I do like to see the bona-fide
classics re-printed with the high production values that we're getting in US and WDC&S. When we're talking
about stories by legends like Carl Barks and Floyd Gottfredson I think it would be a missed opportunity not to try
and produce the best product possible at an affordable, realistic, price. And any way I slice it I think they are
a great value when we stop to consider just what it is we're getting each month -- with an industry-wide
perspective in mind.

Should the insane paper prices drop one day, all the better!

Quote:One great thing about comics today are all the wonderful reprints that are being done. Marvel
and DC do a super job printing those enormous volumes on newsprint for only $20. And Harvey's "Classics"
reprints of Casper, Baby Huey, and Richie Rich are even better. Those are 500 pages for $20 on nice, slick
paper with maybe 40 pages of color. Heck, even "The Life and Times of Uncle Scrooge" was a great deal at
$17 for 250 pages.

I can't disagree with you about the fantastic super-volumes of B&W material that Marvel, DC, Harvey, Dark
Horse and the like are reprinting. My shelf is packed with them and I'd love to see Gemstone do something
like this if they could pull it off. How great would that be? But as you mention, they have given us some great
values over the years and it's nice to see them credited for that. The "Life and Times" collections are huge
bargains, as was Mickey and the Gang: Classic Stories in Verse, and Mickey Mouse in Color (which
Gemstone bargain priced at $20 recently at their site). Other collections have also been very affordable so all
in all, I have to give them credit for managing to get fantastic comics in the hands of those that would like to
read & collect them.

As for why I'm a little more vocal on this, I simply regret seeing the company criticized unfairly when their price-
points are so often better than the current industry standard, all the while containing material that so many
other comics can't even approach in terms of its quality. I regret seeing readers lost somewhere in the pitch
because they never quite stopped to analyze just what was in-between the covers, particularly in comparison to
the 32-page $3.50 pamphlet that they just breezed through.

Whatever the case, or any difference of opinion, I appreciate your chiming in!
Dean Rekich
Texcap, thanks for bringing up this subject in such a wonderful way! I agree with almost *everything* you wrote, but could not have expressed myself as *half* as well as you did! :)

I think far too much time is spent focused on the $7.99 price instead of focusing on what you *get* for such a price! Texcap, you have done an excellent job showing that you get more pages, on better paper, for a better price than DC and Marvel?s monthly titles. Yes, I wish the two monthly prestige Gemstone titles were cheaper. But then again, I wish *all* comic books were cheaper. But then again, I wish *eveything* I bought was cheaper!

There is another way you get more too: you get not only one, but *several* complete stories in each issue! How often anymore does DC or Marvel publish a complete story in one issue? Not very often. In fact, it is not uncommon for one story to take 6 issues! Now, I am not saying that all 100+ pages stories are bad or unwanted. However, isn?t it refreshing to see stories told in 10 or less pages? Imagine if on a regular basis superhero comic writers had to write Superman, Spider-Man, etc., stories of 10 pages or less. I don?t think most could do it! If I am thinking right, about half of *all* the stories that Carl Barks ever wrote were his ten pagers. Isn?t that amazing?!? So kudos to Carl Barks and all current Disney comic writers who can pack *so* much story into such a comparatively small number of pages!

I think most of us on this forum miss the 2 monthly newsstand titles. I know I do! :( However, I can think of one group of people who probably miss them more than even us. That would be the people that work at Gemstone. I doubt it was an easy decision to cancel those two newsstand titles. I guess in one way it *was* easy. After all, if you can not make a profit on a title in a certain format and at a certain price point, what other option is there but to cancel or go out of business? At the same time though, I imagine it was very hard to cancel two titles with such a long and great history, at least when it came to the heart.

As far as Gemstone publishing B/W volumes with ton of pages, I would *love* if they were to do so. Gemstone considered doing so at one point, and hopefully they will reconsider doing so sometime down the line.

JeffT, I *love* the idea of more TPBs being published by Gemstone. I agree that more and more people are becoming more comfortable with this format with each passing year. Not only am I comfortable with the format, it is actually the format I prefer! I have even suggested that Gemstone publish a *monthly* TPB title. The idea was *not* very popular here on the DCF, so this is a suggestion of mine that Gemstone had probably best ignore. :)

One final thought: I am just very grateful that I am able to buy new Disney comics at *any* price! Now it is not like I am ?made of money" (far from it!), but it is far preferable to the alternative. Now I hope Gemstone continues to publish Disney comics for years if not decades to come. However with the current economic conditions and the current state of the comic book industry in general, while this is something I can *hope* for, it is not something I feel like I can *count* on. If Gemstone were to quit publishing Disney comics I think most of us would be *dreaming* of the times we could spend $7.99 for a new Disney comic...

P.S. For everyone who misses the two monthly newsstand titles, *please* email, snail mail, messenger pigeon, etc., Gemstone to publish a 3rd monthly prestige title! It would be like having DD&F and MM&F back, but only better! OK, I guess I had two ?final" thoughts. :)
Roger North
Quote from user: ramapithQuote from user: me[Our monthly titles are actually] trade paperback type of collection[s], and priced competitively for what you get!
Quote from user: Roger NorthIs that why [your prices are] so high ramapith?
Oops, I made it sound like we priced them "competitively" without regard to whether they could actually be cheaper!
Honestly, though, we can't make our monthlies any cheaper?we price them as cheaply as possible given printing and distribution costs. I was only trying to say that our prices compare favorably with our competition, not that we could price them differently if we wanted.

At the very start in 1996, Gladstone's 64-page prestige comics cost $5.95. This became $6.95 in early 1997, a price that Gemstone maintained when taking over in 2003. We managed to keep it that way until late 2006, when we got hit by an awful rise in paper costs. We balanced things out so that we were able to raise the price in steps; first to $7.50, then $7.99. Luckily, we've managed to keep it at $7.99 for more than a year since then.

Sometimes we'll do a prestige one-shot that's the same length as our monthlies, but slightly more expensive (i. e. "The Case of the Missing Mummy" or The Barks-Rosa Collection Vol 1). The price is a bit higher there because we can't sell subscriptions to those titles, so need to make the profit margin at bookstores a little larger to cover the subscription revenue lost.

Oh I see so you're saying that technically you don't have a choice but to sell them at those prices. That's messed up. I bet if The Walt Disney Company was willing to help you then maybe you could lower the prices if you wanted to but of course they may not be willing to help you. Oh Well. I just hope that you don't suffer the same fate as Gladstone.
Roger North
I miss Donald Duck and Friends, and Mickey Mouse and Friends too. Those were such good comic books. Of Course in my city you had to get them by subscription. Just like all the other comic books. I miss the days before Disney Comics published Prestige Format Titles. Those were the good old days. Back then you could just buy any Disney Comic with no problem at all. I think Gladstone jumped the shark by converting Walt Disney's Comics and Stories, and Uncle Scrooge to Prestige Format and Gemstone jumped the shark even further by keeping them in that format.
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