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Topic: Donald Duckling's missing sister
(30 messages)
Matilda
Donald Duckling's missing sister
Message 1 -
2012-08-30 at 01:31:34
I'm just curious about the "Donald Duckling" (Paperino Paperotto) universe. I take it that it originated in Italy. And young Donald is living on the farm with Grandma Duck, who is bringing him up (parents already out of the picture). Now, these stories are never going to be "real" to me, because I follow Rosa's view of Donald's childhood: that he and Della lived with their parents, who presumably died when D&D were in early adulthood. But I have no problem at all with there being different versions of the ducks' world in different writers' stories, and I often enjoy and re-read stories that don't fit into my "reality." I am, though, curious about how the creators of the Paperino Paperotto stories thought about how their stories fit in with Donald's adulthood, and especially with the existence of Huey, Dewey and Louie. In short: WHERE IS DELLA? Or any sister who could be the boys' mother? She couldn't be born later, because the parents are already (dead and) gone. I can understand the writers not wanting to have to work in a sister, but did they really think that readers wouldn't care about Donald's only-child status, wouldn't wonder where HDL had come from? I know I would have, even as a child. Does anyone know whether there was ever any attempt to explain this? I guess she could be imagined to be at least ten years older than Donald, old enough when they are orphaned that she is out on her own....
Debbie
Donald Duckling's missing sister
Message 2 -
2012-08-30 at 05:35:19
I think that those stories (and many, many other Disney stories) are written with the assumption that the children that they're writing for will probably just read them once or twice, forget them and eventually throw the magazines away. Don Rosa really seems to have opened a Pandora's Box with his "Life of Scrooge" continuity obsession that just can't be closed, even a few years after he retired.
Mr. M
Donald Duckling's missing sister
Message 3 -
2012-08-30 at 09:19:17
To be honest you don't even have to read Don Rosa stories to ask this question. The share fact HD&L exist strongly suggest Donald has a sister so it's a good question to ask when you read those stories...
Matilda
Donald Duckling's missing sister
Message 4 -
2012-08-30 at 13:11:15
Thanks, Mr. M, for the moral support. I do believe that *as a child*--while Rosa himself was just a teenager!--I would have wondered where Donald Duckling's sibling (HDL's parent) was. (I wasn't aware of the cartoon where Donald gets saddled with the boys by his unseen sister "Dumbella," so I wouldn't have known whether the sibling should be a sister or a brother.) Perhaps I obscured my point by bringing up Rosa before I stated this. And again I say, I do *not* think all stories should fit into a single continuity. I do enjoy stories that don't fit into my personal sense of the ducks' "reality". But I still say the child-me would have thought Donald Duckling should have had a sister or brother.
Dutch Duckfan Down Under
Donald Duckling's missing sister
Message 5 -
2012-08-30 at 13:47:06
And where are his parents? Aha! Donald Duckling lives with his Grandma on a farm in a remote village near Duckburg. Maybe Della lives with her parents and Donald was sent away to his Grandma? Alternatively, she hadn't been born/hatched yet. I'm sure there's a lot of "interesting" theories you could come up with. Say... why DOES he live all alone on a farm with his Grandma? You're not supposed to ask these questions, I think. Italian Duck continuity is something completely different anyway.
Matilda
Donald Duckling's missing sister
Message 6 -
2012-08-30 at 19:25:51
Yes, one can certainly come up with theories, DDDU, and I agree, one probably isn't supposed to be asking these questions. I just wondered whether there had ever, in any of these stories, been any nod to the possible existence of a sibling who could be HDL's parent.
The story I like most that uses this "Donald Duckling" picture of Donald's childhood is Kari Korhonen's "Another One for the Album," which is my second-favorite Donald's-birthday story (after Rosa's). This story has three flashbacks to earlier birthdays, the last to Donald's childhood on the farm with Grandma Duck, with no sibling in sight. While I like this story a lot, I have to say that the problem I'm describing is very evident in this story, first, because HDL are actually *in* the story, in the set-in-the-present parts, and second, because the story itself alludes to events in other stories, in a general way, and so hints at the idea of a continuity. (Gyro reminds Donald of all the cool things he's done, going on treasure hunts, sailing on the south seas, etc.) And there's really no way to interpret the childhood episode other than to assume that Donald is parentless and living on the farm with Grandma Duck as his caregiver/parent. If parents were alive and elsewhere, they would certainly be referred to in some way on a child's birthday. They would have sent a present, or they would phone, or Grandma Duck would say something about them. So, again: I *like* this story (mostly for reasons having to do with the first two flashbacks). I'm not complaining. I'm just bemused that a story with HDL in it could flash back to a scene in Donald's childhood which seems to make their existence impossible (unless Donald's sibling is 10 years older, and unmentioned on his birthday).
And, speaking of the Italian "continuity" (to the extent that there is one--not that I'm saying there should be!)--how is this dealt with in Marco Rota's "Buon Compleanno, Paperino"? Does duckling Donald live with Grandma on the farm? Does he ever live with parents before that? Does he have a sibling who could be HDL's parent? If so, where is the sibling when he's with Grandma on the farm?
The story I like most that uses this "Donald Duckling" picture of Donald's childhood is Kari Korhonen's "Another One for the Album," which is my second-favorite Donald's-birthday story (after Rosa's). This story has three flashbacks to earlier birthdays, the last to Donald's childhood on the farm with Grandma Duck, with no sibling in sight. While I like this story a lot, I have to say that the problem I'm describing is very evident in this story, first, because HDL are actually *in* the story, in the set-in-the-present parts, and second, because the story itself alludes to events in other stories, in a general way, and so hints at the idea of a continuity. (Gyro reminds Donald of all the cool things he's done, going on treasure hunts, sailing on the south seas, etc.) And there's really no way to interpret the childhood episode other than to assume that Donald is parentless and living on the farm with Grandma Duck as his caregiver/parent. If parents were alive and elsewhere, they would certainly be referred to in some way on a child's birthday. They would have sent a present, or they would phone, or Grandma Duck would say something about them. So, again: I *like* this story (mostly for reasons having to do with the first two flashbacks). I'm not complaining. I'm just bemused that a story with HDL in it could flash back to a scene in Donald's childhood which seems to make their existence impossible (unless Donald's sibling is 10 years older, and unmentioned on his birthday).
And, speaking of the Italian "continuity" (to the extent that there is one--not that I'm saying there should be!)--how is this dealt with in Marco Rota's "Buon Compleanno, Paperino"? Does duckling Donald live with Grandma on the farm? Does he ever live with parents before that? Does he have a sibling who could be HDL's parent? If so, where is the sibling when he's with Grandma on the farm?
Mr. M
Donald Duckling's missing sister
Message 7 -
2012-08-30 at 19:32:14
Quote from user: MatildaAnd again I say, I do *not* think all stories should fit into a single continuity. I do enjoy stories that don't fit into my personal sense of the ducks' "reality". But I still say the child-me would have thought Donald Duckling should have had a sister or brother.
Come to think about it only in Rosa continuity they are twins so in any other continuity she can very well be much older (teenage) or not even born yet as the events of Donald Duckling's takes place. BTW -> In Poland the character of young Donald is named "Doniek" whcih is a cutesy way of saying Donald.
I didn't read this many Donald Duckling stories but I was in general supprise by the lack of younger versions of other supporting characters (other then Grandma Duck) but at the same time it makes the whole thing much more things rather if the whole things was "Duckburg kids"... Than agian I recall one story when little Donald was wearing the Duck Avenger costume...
Here is a interesting article I dig up some time ago (nothing new but just neat count down of all the times Della/Dumbella/Thelma was mentioned)
http://goofy313g.free.fr/calisota_online/Characters/della.html
Come to think about it only in Rosa continuity they are twins so in any other continuity she can very well be much older (teenage) or not even born yet as the events of Donald Duckling's takes place. BTW -> In Poland the character of young Donald is named "Doniek" whcih is a cutesy way of saying Donald.
I didn't read this many Donald Duckling stories but I was in general supprise by the lack of younger versions of other supporting characters (other then Grandma Duck) but at the same time it makes the whole thing much more things rather if the whole things was "Duckburg kids"... Than agian I recall one story when little Donald was wearing the Duck Avenger costume...
Here is a interesting article I dig up some time ago (nothing new but just neat count down of all the times Della/Dumbella/Thelma was mentioned)
http://goofy313g.free.fr/calisota_online/Characters/della.html
Mr. M
Donald Duckling's missing sister
Message 8 -
2012-08-30 at 19:50:12
Quote from user: MatildaYes, one can certainly come up with theories, DDDU, and I agree, one probably isn't supposed to be asking these questions. I just wondered whether there had ever, in any of these stories, been any nod to the possible existence of a sibling who could be HDL's parent.
Here's an some trivia - The reason me (as 99% Disney readers in Poland) always asume that HD&L parent is Donald's sister not brother is beacose here in Poland we have two seprate words for nephews :
Bratanek - if it's refrencing a child of a brother
Siostrzeniec - if it's refrencing a child of a sister
And Huey, Duey and Luey where always refrence in Poland "SiostrzeÅ?cy" (pluar for "Siostrzeniec)
Quote:If parents were alive and elsewhere, they would certainly be referred to in some way on a child's birthday. They would have sent a present, or they would phone, or Grandma Duck would say something about them.
Maybe Donald was sent to live with Grandma for a while beacose he stuck a gigant firecracker under his parents chairs and sent them to a hospital? ;)
BOY! That sure would be some hilarious karma...
Quote:And, speaking of the Italian "continuity" (to the extent that there is one--not that I'm saying there should be!)--how is this dealt with in Marco Rota's "Buon Compleanno, Paperino"? Does duckling Donald live with Grandma on the farm? Does he ever live with parents before that? Does he have a sibling who could be HDL's parent? If so, where is the sibling when he's with Grandma on the farm?
I think this article will awanser youre question
http://duckcomicsrevue.blogspot.com/2011/02/from-egg-to-duck.html
(BTW! I love reviews by this guy! Some funnyas stuff :D )
Long story short : In the story Donald is found and adopted by Grandma Duck and is raise on her farm (remainds me of Klark Kent) by her and... Scrooge who is her brother...??? What the...(Ok, I guess I would asume as well if not for Rosa story) and Huey, Duey and Luey are children of his cousin not sister... Which is odd considering he was found, but maybe she was simply from Grandma Ducks family so there is no biological conection to Donald.
To be honest this story is bizarre enough with the whole concept of Donald hatching from an egg that fell down from a crow-like nest up in the tree... (those darn ducks building their nests on those trees all the time...) To be honest I woudn't mind the idea of Duckburg of duckburg hatching from eggs but here the entire sequence just loooks freaky and confusing.
Makes me think of wat the heck Grandma duck was doing off screen in "The Sign Of The Triple Distelfink" when she was calling her husband that she is having a baby...
This sequence could very well be origns of the entire concept of "Donald Duckling" spin-off
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_JkN_t2uxlV0/TVC4L0h00VI/AAAAAAAABiw/msyyrz_8OJE/s1600/egg8.jpg
Here's an some trivia - The reason me (as 99% Disney readers in Poland) always asume that HD&L parent is Donald's sister not brother is beacose here in Poland we have two seprate words for nephews :
Bratanek - if it's refrencing a child of a brother
Siostrzeniec - if it's refrencing a child of a sister
And Huey, Duey and Luey where always refrence in Poland "SiostrzeÅ?cy" (pluar for "Siostrzeniec)
Quote:If parents were alive and elsewhere, they would certainly be referred to in some way on a child's birthday. They would have sent a present, or they would phone, or Grandma Duck would say something about them.
Maybe Donald was sent to live with Grandma for a while beacose he stuck a gigant firecracker under his parents chairs and sent them to a hospital? ;)
BOY! That sure would be some hilarious karma...
Quote:And, speaking of the Italian "continuity" (to the extent that there is one--not that I'm saying there should be!)--how is this dealt with in Marco Rota's "Buon Compleanno, Paperino"? Does duckling Donald live with Grandma on the farm? Does he ever live with parents before that? Does he have a sibling who could be HDL's parent? If so, where is the sibling when he's with Grandma on the farm?
I think this article will awanser youre question
http://duckcomicsrevue.blogspot.com/2011/02/from-egg-to-duck.html
(BTW! I love reviews by this guy! Some funnyas stuff :D )
Long story short : In the story Donald is found and adopted by Grandma Duck and is raise on her farm (remainds me of Klark Kent) by her and... Scrooge who is her brother...??? What the...(Ok, I guess I would asume as well if not for Rosa story) and Huey, Duey and Luey are children of his cousin not sister... Which is odd considering he was found, but maybe she was simply from Grandma Ducks family so there is no biological conection to Donald.
To be honest this story is bizarre enough with the whole concept of Donald hatching from an egg that fell down from a crow-like nest up in the tree... (those darn ducks building their nests on those trees all the time...) To be honest I woudn't mind the idea of Duckburg of duckburg hatching from eggs but here the entire sequence just loooks freaky and confusing.
Makes me think of wat the heck Grandma duck was doing off screen in "The Sign Of The Triple Distelfink" when she was calling her husband that she is having a baby...
This sequence could very well be origns of the entire concept of "Donald Duckling" spin-off
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_JkN_t2uxlV0/TVC4L0h00VI/AAAAAAAABiw/msyyrz_8OJE/s1600/egg8.jpg
Dutch Duckfan Down Under
Donald Duckling's missing sister
Message 9 -
2012-08-30 at 20:06:23
Quote from user: Mr. MI didn't read this many Donald Duckling stories but I was in general supprise by the lack of younger versions of other supporting characters (other then Grandma Duck) but at the same time it makes the whole thing much more things rather if the whole things was "Duckburg kids"... Than agian I recall one story when little Donald was wearing the Duck Avenger costume...
I'm glad they went this way and made new characters. "Everyone as children!" is a bit silly and too Disney Babies. This is much more realistic. Now if they'd get back together in the present, I'd like to see that. But I've seen Scrooge and his butler in Donald Duckling stories. And Inducks says there's also a little Gladstone Gander.
I'm glad they went this way and made new characters. "Everyone as children!" is a bit silly and too Disney Babies. This is much more realistic. Now if they'd get back together in the present, I'd like to see that. But I've seen Scrooge and his butler in Donald Duckling stories. And Inducks says there's also a little Gladstone Gander.
Lars Jensen
Donald Duckling's missing sister
Message 10 -
2012-08-30 at 20:42:12
Quote from user: Mr. MIn the story Donald is found and adopted by Grandma Duck and is raise on her farm (remainds me of Klark Kent) by her and... Scrooge who is her brother...??? What the...
For decades, Europeans saw Scrooge as Grandma's brother (or, in one Italian story, her cousin)! I'd never even heard of Grandma being unrelated to Scrooge until I read it in a Rosa story.
For decades, Europeans saw Scrooge as Grandma's brother (or, in one Italian story, her cousin)! I'd never even heard of Grandma being unrelated to Scrooge until I read it in a Rosa story.
Matilda
Donald Duckling's missing sister
Message 11 -
2012-08-30 at 21:14:43
Ah, thanks, Mr. M, I now read GeoX's blog all the time, and have read many of the archives, but I didn't realize he had reviewed this story of Rota's. So Rota's story is not terribly coherent, family-relationship-wise. HDL are left with Donald by Della/Dumbella, who is said to be Donald's cousin, not his sister--though as you and GeoX point out, it's pretty mysterious how he could have a cousin when he was a foundling with no known family of origin. But if Della is not Donald's sister, that would at least explain why Della wasn't living at Grandma's farm with him. (Though the if/then probably actually went the other way for Rota, i.e.: there is no sister on the farm with Donald in the Donald Duckling stories, therefore Della can't have been Donald's sister; I'll make her his cousin.) Then, of course, it would follow that HDL are not actually Donald's nephews, but his cousins once removed ("once removed" being a generational step downward; it has nothing to do with in-laws). And maybe only *that* through his adoption, not by blood.
And I wonder if Gladstone is presented as Donald's cousin, either in the Paperino Paperotto stories or in Rota's birthday story? Again, there's the question of how someone could be known to be Donald's cousin if Donald was a foundling. Maybe, as you suggest, Della (and Gladstone) could be grandchildren or great-niece/nephew of Grandma Duck, and thus "cousins" by adoption.
I'm aware that the Europeans long thought that Grandma and Scrooge were siblings (no one then knew about Barks' family tree!), and that they were presented as siblings in European stories. Reading American comics, I never thought that. For one thing, Scrooge was clearly Scottish, while Grandma did not seem Scottish. So though I never tried to figure out a family tree for the ducks, I think I assumed that Scrooge and Grandma were from different sides of Donald's family.
It's interesting that Polish has different words for nephew-through-brother and nephew-through-sister. At least everybody--Europeans and Americans, Barks and Rosa and Rota and all--agrees that it was HDL's mother, not their father, who was some sort of relative of Donald's and who left the boys with him.
And I wonder if Gladstone is presented as Donald's cousin, either in the Paperino Paperotto stories or in Rota's birthday story? Again, there's the question of how someone could be known to be Donald's cousin if Donald was a foundling. Maybe, as you suggest, Della (and Gladstone) could be grandchildren or great-niece/nephew of Grandma Duck, and thus "cousins" by adoption.
I'm aware that the Europeans long thought that Grandma and Scrooge were siblings (no one then knew about Barks' family tree!), and that they were presented as siblings in European stories. Reading American comics, I never thought that. For one thing, Scrooge was clearly Scottish, while Grandma did not seem Scottish. So though I never tried to figure out a family tree for the ducks, I think I assumed that Scrooge and Grandma were from different sides of Donald's family.
It's interesting that Polish has different words for nephew-through-brother and nephew-through-sister. At least everybody--Europeans and Americans, Barks and Rosa and Rota and all--agrees that it was HDL's mother, not their father, who was some sort of relative of Donald's and who left the boys with him.
Baar Baar Jinx
Donald Duckling's missing sister
Message 12 -
2012-08-31 at 14:34:52
Quote from user: Dutch Duckfan Down UnderI'm glad they went this way and made new characters. "Everyone as children!" is a bit silly and too Disney Babies.
I heartily agree. How many people that you know and love today were in your life when you were ten? People move away, lose contact, drift apart .... that's why the premise of shows like "Flintstones Kids" is so hard to swallow (although admittedly I doubt the writers of that show intended to create a believable universe). The "Little Archie" universe tried to be a little different by introducing characters that were not present in the "Big Archie" universe (but all major "Big Archie" characters were in "Little Archie").
Quote from user: Mr. MTo be honest you don't even have to read Don Rosa stories to ask this question. The share fact HD&L exist strongly suggest Donald has a sister so it's a good question to ask when you read those stories...
DuckTales did something similar ... they portrayed Scrooge as an only child ... so where did Donald come from? Okay, Donald didn't count for much on that show .... but where did HD&L, standing right next to him when he spoke of his childhood, come from?
I heartily agree. How many people that you know and love today were in your life when you were ten? People move away, lose contact, drift apart .... that's why the premise of shows like "Flintstones Kids" is so hard to swallow (although admittedly I doubt the writers of that show intended to create a believable universe). The "Little Archie" universe tried to be a little different by introducing characters that were not present in the "Big Archie" universe (but all major "Big Archie" characters were in "Little Archie").
Quote from user: Mr. MTo be honest you don't even have to read Don Rosa stories to ask this question. The share fact HD&L exist strongly suggest Donald has a sister so it's a good question to ask when you read those stories...
DuckTales did something similar ... they portrayed Scrooge as an only child ... so where did Donald come from? Okay, Donald didn't count for much on that show .... but where did HD&L, standing right next to him when he spoke of his childhood, come from?
Matilda
Donald Duckling's missing sister
Message 13 -
2012-08-31 at 23:33:42
Really? DuckTales portrayed Scrooge as an only child? How funny! Did Scrooge leave open the possibility that he had a baby sibling when he was older, or is the "only child" status stated absolutely?
Mr. M
Donald Duckling's missing sister
Message 14 -
2012-09-01 at 02:46:40
They simply show him as teenager living alone with his paretns who are very old and there is zero refrences to any siblings (On the show he is a teenager when he earns his first dime)
My guess is that Donald just spontaneously materialize one day and Huey Dewey & Louie got pass from family member to family member so many times they lost track of how are they related to the rest of the clan agian so they just refrence evrybody as uncles...
THEN AGIAN Scrooges uncle who runs a boat on Missisipi appear in the very same episode - However he's not named Angus McDuck but (from what I remember) Catfish McDuck and is complitly diffrent character desing and personality wise (then Angus).
My guess is that Donald just spontaneously materialize one day and Huey Dewey & Louie got pass from family member to family member so many times they lost track of how are they related to the rest of the clan agian so they just refrence evrybody as uncles...
THEN AGIAN Scrooges uncle who runs a boat on Missisipi appear in the very same episode - However he's not named Angus McDuck but (from what I remember) Catfish McDuck and is complitly diffrent character desing and personality wise (then Angus).
Roger North
Donald Duckling's missing sister
Message 15 -
2012-09-01 at 12:28:56
Maybe so but Catfish and Angus are both riverboat captains.
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