Keskustelujen arkisto

Ow, I'm not saying he wasn't ment to be the same character, I just pointing out there was no similarities to Angus from Rosa stories in his character (as in "personality"/"desing").

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg401/scaled.php?server=401&filename=05youngscrooge.png&res=landing
See? Even when Scrooge is going to American and only his parents show up to say goodbye... No siblings.

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg840/scaled.php?server=840&filename=04youngscrooge.png&res=landing

BTW ->
I wonder was Rosa inspired by this frame :
http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg440/scaled.php?server=440&filename=01youngscrooge.png&res=landing

Ah! Historical moment...
http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg253/scaled.php?server=253&filename=02youngscrooge.png&res=landing

DuckTales versions of Scrooges parents
http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg24/scaled.php?server=24&filename=03youngscrooge.png&res=landing

Still, for a episode about Scrooges "rag to riches" jurney made years BEAFORE Rosa's "Life and Time" series I think they did a Ok job of actually using Barks facst about how his life went. In fact story wise it's very similar to how events went in "L&T" :

Scrooge earns his first dime as a shoe shinner in Scotland. Turns out it wortles since it's american money but it inspires Scrooge to go to USA. The starts working with his uncle on a riverboat and helps him in a race agianst a villinan. Become part of gold rush in klondike and have adventures on the wild west (which is in diffrent order but still) We also get scene when he face the Beagle Boys for the firs time.

We also get sequence of his parents reading letters he sent from his adventures (as well money)

It ALWAYS seemed to me (and still does) that Scrooge was much too old to be an Uncle to Donald, rather than a "Great Uncle". I believe that Scrooge was NOT the Brother of Donald's mother, but he was the Brother of Donald's Maternal Grandmother. That would make him Donald's Great Uncle, and being the brother of his Maternal Grandmother, would jibe with the fact that Donald's family name is "Duck", while Scrooge's is McDuck. Scrooge is, even so, an Uncle to Huey, Dewey and Louie Duck, albeit a "Great, Great Uncle". This makes more sense to me, as Scrooge must have been born near the end of the 1870s or beginning of the 1880s (at very latest), and Donald had to have been born in the 1920s, to have been near 20 years old in the early 1940s (when his comic book career started). This all allows Scrooge to have had no siblings, and, yet, still be Donald's and Donald's Nephews' Uncle (Great Uncle, and Great, Great Uncle).
So, for me, Ducktales got it right, and Rosa has gotten it wrong.

Quote from user: Baar Baar JinxQuote from user: Robb_KIt ALWAYS seemed to me (and still does) that Scrooge was much too old to be an Uncle to Donald, rather than a "Great Uncle". I believe that Scrooge was NOT the Brother of Donald's mother, but he was the Brother of Donald's Maternal Grandmother. That would make him Donald's Great Uncle, and being the brother of his Maternal Grandmother, would jibe with the fact that Donald's family name is "Duck", while Scrooge's is McDuck. Scrooge is, even so, an Uncle to Huey, Dewey and Louie Duck, albeit a "Great, Great Uncle". This makes more sense to me, as Scrooge must have been born near the end of the 1870s or beginning of the 1880s (at very latest), and Donald had to have been born in the 1920s, to have been near 20 years old in the early 1940s (when his comic book career started). This all allows Scrooge to have had no siblings, and, yet, still be Donald's and Donald's Nephews' Uncle (Great Uncle, and Great, Great Uncle).

So, for me, Ducktales got it right, and Rosa has gotten it wrong.
Well, as we all know, Barks' family tree has Scrooge being Donald's mother's brother, so if you consider Barks canon, Rosa was right. But you have a point; Scrooge, in his mid-seventies (based on a birthday Barks had him celebrate), is almost 50 years older than Donald, in his late twenties or early thirties. Rosa struggled to create an age difference believable enough between Scrooge and Hortense whereby Donald could still be as young as he is; this basically results in Hortense being rather old when she gave birth to Donald (at least in her 40s) since it looks like Hortense is, at most, a decade younger than Scrooge in "Life and Times". It is even harder to believe that Grandma is a generation older than Scrooge; if Scrooge is 75, how old is Grandma supposed to be? Assuming Quackmore is the same age as Scrooge, Grandma would need to be at least 16-17 years older (this is stretching it, making Quackmore her oldest child and having her becoming a mother while still a teenager)... that means she's well into her nineties! And didn't Rosa make Quackmore her youngest? One also has to assume that unless Della is substantially older than Donald (Rosa made them twins but there's no other source that confirms that), she was quite young when she gave birth to HD&L ... if they're around 10, she must have been in her late teens when she had them.

But even if you believe Scrooge is the brother of Donald's grandmother, DuckTales is still wrong, as it seems to suggest that he has no siblings. How could he have been an uncle of any kind, if he was an only child (unless you speculate that Donald is the descendent of a cousin)?
Yes, Duck tales got it wrong. I FORGOT that if Scrooge was the brother of Donald's Grandmother, he'd HAVE to have a sister or he COULDN'T be a "brother"!!! I am old. My logic sometimes fails me.

In any case.... we see that we can NEVER have EVERYTHING jibe perfectly when we have several different media, publishers, writers, artists producing stories about "The Duck Family".

I am a DEVOUT Barksist. BUT, I find myself having to THROW AWAY certain documents that Barks produced, when they deviate from THE BULK of his work. The test I use is published versus unpublished. I don't accept EITHER of Barks' quickly-drawn up (without deep thought) "Duck Family Trees". As they both have contradictions from each other, and from the general body of his work (and logic regarding that), as they were NOT produced for official publication, AND, Barks, himself, was subject to forgetfulness and faulty logic, in keeping track of "The Duck Universe" that he, himself, created. Not only did he have contradictions between his two "Duck Family Trees" AND between both of them and the body of his work, but he also gave different answers to the same questions at different times, and readily admitted that he NEVER had intended to even ATTEMPT to keep all of his background "facts" related to that "universe", straight and consistent. He just used a character or setting element as needed in each, individual story, as needed to further the plot in that single story.

So, as both his family trees were made solely for his personal reference, and his personal memory was subject to errors, anyway, I consider BOTH his family trees to contain errors (and so, not to be followed as "Gospel" in their entirety).

Quote from user: Mr. MI personaly prefer Rosa's family tree - from what I recall It dosen't contradict Barks stories in any way even if it makes Grandma a generation older then Scrooge and they usually appears to be more-less same age in the stories.

http://coa.inducks.org/hr.php?image=http://outducks.org/webusers/webusers/2006/12/us_cbl_6p476a_001.jpg&normalsize=1

One think that annoys me about one of Barks family tree is the whole pointless "Gladstone is from Grandma's side but is adopted by the Mcduck side"???
I guess the logic behind it so explain why Gladstone would be consider Scrooges hair in "Some hair over the rainbow' but I still find it a unecesary overcomplication.
I also find that a totally unnecessary overcomplication. I don't see any substantial conflict created in the Barks stories. It is very reasonable that Gladstone is related to Donald BOTH through being related to The Ducks, AND the McDucks. I, myself, have cousins, uncles and aunts who are related by blood to both my maternal grandmother and maternal grandfather. That can happen in any family in nations in which people, as closely related as first cousins. are allowed to marry each other. That includes MOST Western countries. With near idiots (such as Doofus) walking around, it is not unreasonable to assume that there may be a fair amount of "in-breeding" among the Ducks (or, at least, among the Ducks wider breeding group).

What do we know from Barks' stories?

1) Scrooge McDuck was Gladstone's Mother's Brother's Brother-In-Law. What does that tell us about his blood relationship?-Absolutely nothing! So, Gladstone's telling that to Donald was totally meaningless. But that is not a problem. Scrooge McDuck also tells us that Donald is his closest blood relative. And after Donald, Gladstone and Donald's Nephews are next in line (we're not sure which are closer). But that doesn't matter. Scrooge is inclined to treat Donald, Gladstone and the three Nephews as equals, in deciding which should inherit his wealth. Scrooge has stated that he is a blood uncle to Donald, to Gladstone, AND to Huey, Dewey and Louie. We can only assume that Scrooge is a Great Uncle to both Donald and Gladstone, and a Great, Great Uncle to Donald's Nephews, or (if you agree with the Barks or Rosa Duck Family Trees), that Scrooge is a primary uncle to both Gladstone and Donald, and Great uncle to Donald's nephews).

Quote from user: MatildaQuote from user: Baar Baar Jinx[But you have a point; Scrooge, in his mid-seventies (based on a birthday Barks had him celebrate), is almost 50 years older than Donald, in his late twenties or early thirties. Rosa struggled to create an age difference believable enough between Scrooge and Hortense whereby Donald could still be as young as he is; this basically results in Hortense being rather old when she gave birth to Donald (at least in her 40s) since it looks like Hortense is, at most, a decade younger than Scrooge in "Life and Times".
If Donald is in his early thirties, a mid-70's uncle would be closer to 40 years older than he is. (Scrooge turns 75 in that one-pager, so he can be thought to be 74/75.) My own father had aunts 40+ years older than he was, so I saw no problem with Scrooge being Donald's uncle. If your parent was in his/her 30's when you were born, it's easily possible for his/her sibling to be 40 years older than you. If, as you suggest, Hortense is ten years younger than Scrooge, she could have been 30ish when Donald was born and the ages would work out right.
We've had a LOT of trouble getting fans to acknowledge that Donald is even a couple years into his 20s! So many of them claim he's a late teenager! I would guess he's about 23-24 (as humans go). Donald's Mother being in her 30s when he was born, might explain why Donald's sister, Thelma (or, whatever name we give her) was NOT raised by Grandma, at the same time as Donald. Perhaps she was 10-12 years older than he, and she was, for-the-most-part, raised by her natural parents. So, maybe Donald's parents DIDN'T die, but Donald was sent to live with his grandmother because he was so incorrigible and hard-to-handle, that raising two children was too much for them. If they had suddenly been killed, Thelma would have come along with Donald, to be raised by Grandma (and Grandpa), at least for her remaining 8-10 years of childhood (teen years).

You-tube to the rescue :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGMO4qzVnHQ (Dewey ws oryginaly ORANGE not blue!? Well, that turn my world upside down...)

Yes, shes his sister in the cartoon.

I don't like the idea of her being Donalds cousing - Sister makes the boys more clously related... I like the idea that Donalds partents are in fact HD&L grandparents. Makes them share DNA and stuff... ;)

(Orange.... Damn! I shall never looke at him the same way agian... )

Trying to make the Donald Duckling universe fit into other verses is way too much fun. The following is mostly based on Rosa-verse, with a little Barks and animated canon thrown in for good measure.
Now, if we assume that Donald and Della are twins, how is this going to work out? Well, the last time we see Donald together with his nuclear family is at the end of The Empire-Builder from Calisota, when he is ten years old, roughly the same age that he appears to be in the Donald Duckling stories. (Think he's younger in those? Well, too bad! We're going with this for now.) So, in order for both universes to co-exist in the same continuum, we must assume that little Don began living with his grandmother almost immediately after we last saw his family. How can that be, when both of his parents were obviously alive and well? If something had happened to them, wouldn't Della be living with her grandmother as well? So, what's the deal?
Well folks, maybe Hortense and Quackmore weren't all that great at parenting. I mean, think about it: as much as I love them both, we never get to see how they were raising their kids, and based on what we know about their personalities...well...for all we know, they could have been terrible parents. Maybe their financial situation grew too dire after the events of the story for them to supposedly support more than one child? Or maybe Donald was too big a handful for his parents? Or maybe Donald and Della were at their very best behaviour the one time we see them together, and otherwise unstoppable hellions when not separated? Whatever the reason, they made the decision to leave Donald in the care of his paternal grandmother, who they knew would be able to take good care of him, and moved away with Della, cutting almost all contact with their son. Harsh? You bet. Plausible? Not impossible, at least.
Now, in The Sharpie of the Culebra Cut, we see that Donald is still very proud of his mother, which obviously debunks this whole theory. Or does it? What if Donald never met his mother again after he was ten years old? We never see Hortense or Quackmore again, and for all we know they could have died at any point afterwards. (So obviously, this wouldn't work at all if Rosa had been allowed to go ahead with his initial plan to use Hortense in A Letter From Home, but since he wasn't and she's "officially dead" according to Disney, it works juuust fine. About time something good came out of that nonsense.) If Donald's last memories of his mother are from when he was very young, and he never came consciously to grips with the fact that he was essentially abandoned by his parents (unconsciously, however...we'll get back to that), it makes sense that he'd have a very idolised image of her even in present day.
Anyway, Della got married at a young age and had triplets. She and Donald resumed contact with each other, but only on a very superficial level given that Don had barely, if ever, met his nephews before they were sent to stay with him: Christmas cards and the occassional letter rather than actually meeting each other, i.e. on friendly, but distant terms. And guess what? Della and her husband were less than great as parents as well! When we first meet HDL, they're about as "angelic" as humanly possible, and instead of taking responsibility and attempting to raise them properly from now on, their parents bolted, never to be seen again, abandoning the trio and saddling Donald with responsibility his hellish nephews.
Now, here's something I've been thinking about: after it became obvious that the boys' parents weren't coming back, why did Donald assume the parental role and keep taking care of the children? The boys were more than a handful and his financial situation was erratic as always. Surely he could have contacted the authorities and have them take care of the situation. But he didn't. Because the kids had already been abandoned once, and he wasn't going to make them go through it again. He too had been abandoned by his parents as a child, and while he had never been able to grasp it consciously, it had caused him a lot of subconscious anguish and pain. There was no way he would let the boys down that way, dammit, no matter what. Of course, how much of this he understood consciously we'll never know, but we do know that he did assume responsibility and became the boys' guardian, and no matter how they behaved he stuck to it. And while I doubt anyone would call him a model parent, the results are apparent: HDL are shaping up to be intelligent, responsible, and resourceful model citizens, and are already mature far beyond their years. We can't give all credit of this to Don, perhaps, but it is obvious that he's a damn sight better a parent than the boys' biological parents, and has and is willing to make sacrifices to ensure the best future possible for HDL. He may be a bad parent at times, but his heart is in the right place, and for that I applaud him.
...Boy, that sure went off tangent.

Yes, I support you.

I really want to see atleast ONE comic featuring her.. she deserves it, she is indeed his Sister and nothing has said she isn't alive.
I do however fully get what you're saying and agree with it.