Author
Topic: Boom Titles -- Sept 2010
(67 messages)
Dutch Duckfan Down Under
Boom Titles -- Sept 2010
Message 16 -
2010-07-24 at 14:39:44
I've arleady said it, but I'm going to say it again. I wish that for the 70th anniversary special of WDC, they'd make facsimiles of the first issues. Now that's something I would buy.
Robb_K
Boom Titles -- Sept 2010
Message 17 -
2010-07-24 at 18:06:26
Quote from user: Dutch Duckfan Down UnderI've already said it, but I'm going to say it again. I wish that for the 70th anniversary special of WDC, they'd make facsimiles of the first issues. Now that's something I would buy.
I would also buy that, and I haven't bought ANY of the Boom! Disney Comics so far.
I would also buy that, and I haven't bought ANY of the Boom! Disney Comics so far.
GeoX
Boom Titles -- Sept 2010
Message 18 -
2010-07-24 at 18:42:10
Yeah, that's an excellent idea that would both be of great interest to serious fans (count ME in, certainly) and would increase interest in their titles generally. Therefore, there's no chance that they will do it.
MrCleveland
Boom Titles -- Sept 2010
Message 19 -
2010-07-25 at 06:45:32
Will Boom! ever publish stories from Europe? There's a few good ones from Italy, Germany, Sweden, Netherlands, Denmark, and Finland which have never seen the light in The USA!
Dutch Duckfan Down Under
Boom Titles -- Sept 2010
Message 20 -
2010-07-25 at 16:49:35
Quote from user: GeoXYeah, that's an excellent idea that would both be of great interest to serious fans (count ME in, certainly) and would increase interest in their titles generally. Therefore, there's no chance that they will do it.
:) "Therefore, there's no chance that they will do it."
:) "Therefore, there's no chance that they will do it."
Donald_Duck
Boom Titles -- Sept 2010
Message 21 -
2010-07-26 at 19:37:21
Might I ask what SPECIFICALLY about the Boom Disney titles that some of you don't like? Do you feel like the artwork is inferior to the material of that we've seen in the past 20 years? Is there something intrinsically different story-wise from 'Mickey Mouse and the World to Come' than the countless adventures that Mickey went on with Eega Beeva in the Gottfredson era? Is it out of character to see Donald Duck as a slapsticky secret agent having various misadventures where he's in over his head, all while trying to keep Daisy from going ballistic? Is Scrooge McDuck not hunting for treasure with his nephews on regular basis in his title? I mean, I get the problems with Wizards of Mickey and Ultraheroes with the characters not really being themselves, and instead their universe being an 'Elseworlds' version of the continuity that we remember; but honestly, why does a bit of a contemporary take on a classic idea scare so many folks? "NORMAL Disney comics?" What does that even mean in the context of what's available. Are the characters only supposed to have ten page shorter stories where they hardly leave Duckburg/Mouseton? (Atombrella and the Rhyming Man anyone?) I mean, what constitutes a typical adventure for these characters when dealing with magic, time travel, space travel and future tech are common place in the rich Disney comics history. You can read those older stories all day and then scoff at the possible comedic hijinks of Donald Duck in a Kung-Fu based adventure with a straight face? Were the original strips from the 40s not intended for children's interests back then? DUH, of course they were. I'm not trying to spray venom on other people's opinions, but what's the point of siting that you don't like something because it's not like the 'old days' when you don't ever say how it's different? Would anyone read Spider-man if they just printed old Lee/Ditko stories every month and never tried to present NEW classics? Talk to me, what's the big damn deal?
Mcduck_Enterprises
Boom Titles -- Sept 2010
Message 22 -
2010-07-26 at 20:02:39
Plain and simple for me, BOOM!'s Uncle Scrooge issues have been BOOORRRING. The stories feel tired. Overall, the paper quality of the book is spot on.....the price is right....the coloring is even pretty good....can't complain about the art, but the stories have been a real snooze. I didn't feel this way when Gemstone or Gladstone had the title.....
GeoX
Boom Titles -- Sept 2010
Message 23 -
2010-07-26 at 21:04:14
I can't speak to the quality of their MM stories, but McDuck_Enterprises is right: the Scrooge stories Boom! has chosen to localize flat-out suck; not much more to it than that.
As for Donald, well, I actually don't mind Double Duck qua Double Duck, but you're kidding yourself if you think it has more than a passing resemblance to traditional Donald stories. WHICH WOULD BE OKAY, if not for the fact that this is ALL that Boom! is doing, Donald-wise. If they published a larger DD book of which Double Duck was only a part--that would be fine. If they would reserve Double Duck for trade paperbacks and publish traditional stories in the regular book--that would be fine. But as it is, this is ALL THEY'RE DOING, which, in addition to being very poor business, pretty much destroys the tradition.
Please let's nip in the bud the idea that this is THE FUTURE, and that by wanting regular stories, we're just living in the past--Van Horn, Rota, Jippes, Vicar, et al--including a number of people on this forum--are still producing plenty of traditional stories (long and short--I don't know where this weird suggestion that by complaining about Boom!'s serials, we're complaining about long adventures as such comes from). Boom! is simply choosing to focus on one particular segment of the European market when deciding what to localize.
I mean okay, sure, if you want to say "Ha! This is what kids today like, and if you don't agree, you can SUCK IT!" I don't think the evidence really supports that, but you can say it. Even if it were true, though--so what? We're required to therefore not express a vigorous preference for the stories that made us Disney fans in the first place? If that's the way it is, this forum might as well not exist.
As for Donald, well, I actually don't mind Double Duck qua Double Duck, but you're kidding yourself if you think it has more than a passing resemblance to traditional Donald stories. WHICH WOULD BE OKAY, if not for the fact that this is ALL that Boom! is doing, Donald-wise. If they published a larger DD book of which Double Duck was only a part--that would be fine. If they would reserve Double Duck for trade paperbacks and publish traditional stories in the regular book--that would be fine. But as it is, this is ALL THEY'RE DOING, which, in addition to being very poor business, pretty much destroys the tradition.
Please let's nip in the bud the idea that this is THE FUTURE, and that by wanting regular stories, we're just living in the past--Van Horn, Rota, Jippes, Vicar, et al--including a number of people on this forum--are still producing plenty of traditional stories (long and short--I don't know where this weird suggestion that by complaining about Boom!'s serials, we're complaining about long adventures as such comes from). Boom! is simply choosing to focus on one particular segment of the European market when deciding what to localize.
I mean okay, sure, if you want to say "Ha! This is what kids today like, and if you don't agree, you can SUCK IT!" I don't think the evidence really supports that, but you can say it. Even if it were true, though--so what? We're required to therefore not express a vigorous preference for the stories that made us Disney fans in the first place? If that's the way it is, this forum might as well not exist.
JessePost
Boom Titles -- Sept 2010
Message 24 -
2010-07-26 at 21:29:39
GeoX, I was really happy to see Donald_Duck's question posed (finally!) in this forum, but with all due respect, you didn't answer it! We all know that you and many others prefer "normal" stories. What's not clear to many of us is why these stories are abnormal. Donald_Duck wasn't saying you're wrong to prefer normal stories, he was just wondering why Double Duck doesn't qualify.
Whether a story is boring, exciting, well-drawn, or poorly drawn is all subjective. But whether or not a story is "incorrect," as many of you claim these are, is a more objective and debatable question. I, for one, am curious to see this assertion of incorrectness given a vigorous and thorough challenge/defense on the forums.
Whether a story is boring, exciting, well-drawn, or poorly drawn is all subjective. But whether or not a story is "incorrect," as many of you claim these are, is a more objective and debatable question. I, for one, am curious to see this assertion of incorrectness given a vigorous and thorough challenge/defense on the forums.
GeoX
Boom Titles -- Sept 2010
Message 25 -
2010-07-26 at 21:47:00
I think it's pretty self-evidently apparent why "Donald has a secret identity as a super-spy" is a major departure from the norm. I mean, yes, there's some minor variation in the character between artists and even between stories by the same artist, but there's always been a basic stability to the character, regardless of whether he's in space or the past or whatnot. The character himself has always been the fulcrum on which the story pivots. Now, we're sorta kicking said fulcrum around like a football, which is certainly not the usual thing.
I should clarify that I don't MIND this, in moderation. I like Rota's 'Andold Wild Duck' stories (hey, if you have any kind of 'in' with Boom!, how 'bout getting them to finally give Andold's debut a US printing?), and I have actually enjoyed the Double Duck stuff. But what they AREN'T is the kind of stories that Western and later Gladstone and Gemstone published heaps of, that made me fall in love with this stuff in the first place.
I should clarify that I don't MIND this, in moderation. I like Rota's 'Andold Wild Duck' stories (hey, if you have any kind of 'in' with Boom!, how 'bout getting them to finally give Andold's debut a US printing?), and I have actually enjoyed the Double Duck stuff. But what they AREN'T is the kind of stories that Western and later Gladstone and Gemstone published heaps of, that made me fall in love with this stuff in the first place.
JessePost
Boom Titles -- Sept 2010
Message 26 -
2010-07-26 at 22:06:56
Well, the super spy storyline is actually about mistaken identity. It's not that Donald has been a super spy is whole life; it's more like he stumbled into it, or rather, the spy world threw itself onto him. I'm nowhere near as well-versed as you in Donald history (I'm more of a Mouse guy myself), but from what I understand this kind of "why is this happening to me?" stuff is standard practice for the character.
Again, I'm not trying to defend the execution of the story, which is wide open for criticism as all art is.
Again, I'm not trying to defend the execution of the story, which is wide open for criticism as all art is.
GeoX
Boom Titles -- Sept 2010
Message 27 -
2010-07-27 at 00:34:48
I feel like this is the place where I turn the argument around, and ask: okay, so let's for the moment take it as a given that stories with Donald as a secret agent/kung fu duck are not materially different than stories where he's just a normal duck. In that case--if it doesn't make any difference--why doesn't Boom! publish ANY of the latter? If they're the same thing, there isn't any valid argument AGAINST it, right? Certainly, given Boom!'s sales numbers, there's no FINANCIAL argument. And yet...this is ALL they do. Why?
Arthur
Boom Titles -- Sept 2010
Message 28 -
2010-07-27 at 05:32:00
Quote from user: JessePostWe all know that you and many others prefer "normal" stories. What's not clear to many of us is why these stories are abnormal.
I don't think that Double Duck, Wizards of Mickey and Ultraheroes by themselves are abnormal, but having only those types of long adventure stories is, in my opinion.
I grew up reading Disney comics in the Netherlands in the 1980s and have been collecting US Disney comics for the last 25 years as well as international issues. When I look at all the different weeklies and monthlies from the 50 or so different countries that I have in my collection, I find that they generally contain:
1. mostly short stories (1-to-2-page gags, 10-pagers, occasional 20+ page adventure stories);
2. stories in a variety of different styles (but mostly in the traditional Barksian style where Donald and Mickey are 'themselves');
3. a variety of new stories and old reprints (for instance 1 old Barks story for every 4 or 5 new stories);
4. mostly complete stories and a very small amount of long stories that span multiple (2 or 3) issues (when multi-part stories do occur the original chapters are always kept intact, often with splash panel at beginning of each part);
5. a mix of stories from different sources (H-coded from Holland, D-coded from Denmark, I-coded from Italy, etc.);
6. 3-tier stories in small-sized books and 4-tier stories in the regular-sized comic books.
In contrast, BOOM!'s version of U$, DD, MM and WDC&S have contained:
1. long sagas that span 10+ issues;
2. only new stories;
3. only stories from Italy;
4. many stories where Donald and Mickey play a different character (spy, wizard, superhero, etc.);
5. mostly 3-tier stories in regular-sized comic books.
In my opinion long sagas like Wizards of Mickey and Double Duck do not belong in 24-page monthly comics. They were originally written for the 164-page Topolino and are generally reprinted in thick pocket books like Lustiges Taschenbuch. Also, the way BOOM is chopping them up is, in my opinion, especially weird.
With BOOM's current model they risk:
1. people dropping an entire series because they don't like a single story (which goes on for over a year);
2. people not picking up a new series in the store because they've missed a huge part of the story;
3. people not buying the monthlies and just waiting for the TPB collection.
I don't find Ultraheroes or Double Duck necessarily 'boring', but ONLY having Ultraheroes and Double Duck in a monthly series for 1 to 2 years -- that I find extremely boring. When compared to what long-time publishers of Disney comics do in other countries, BOOM's method is very different indeed.
I don't think that Double Duck, Wizards of Mickey and Ultraheroes by themselves are abnormal, but having only those types of long adventure stories is, in my opinion.
I grew up reading Disney comics in the Netherlands in the 1980s and have been collecting US Disney comics for the last 25 years as well as international issues. When I look at all the different weeklies and monthlies from the 50 or so different countries that I have in my collection, I find that they generally contain:
1. mostly short stories (1-to-2-page gags, 10-pagers, occasional 20+ page adventure stories);
2. stories in a variety of different styles (but mostly in the traditional Barksian style where Donald and Mickey are 'themselves');
3. a variety of new stories and old reprints (for instance 1 old Barks story for every 4 or 5 new stories);
4. mostly complete stories and a very small amount of long stories that span multiple (2 or 3) issues (when multi-part stories do occur the original chapters are always kept intact, often with splash panel at beginning of each part);
5. a mix of stories from different sources (H-coded from Holland, D-coded from Denmark, I-coded from Italy, etc.);
6. 3-tier stories in small-sized books and 4-tier stories in the regular-sized comic books.
In contrast, BOOM!'s version of U$, DD, MM and WDC&S have contained:
1. long sagas that span 10+ issues;
2. only new stories;
3. only stories from Italy;
4. many stories where Donald and Mickey play a different character (spy, wizard, superhero, etc.);
5. mostly 3-tier stories in regular-sized comic books.
In my opinion long sagas like Wizards of Mickey and Double Duck do not belong in 24-page monthly comics. They were originally written for the 164-page Topolino and are generally reprinted in thick pocket books like Lustiges Taschenbuch. Also, the way BOOM is chopping them up is, in my opinion, especially weird.
With BOOM's current model they risk:
1. people dropping an entire series because they don't like a single story (which goes on for over a year);
2. people not picking up a new series in the store because they've missed a huge part of the story;
3. people not buying the monthlies and just waiting for the TPB collection.
I don't find Ultraheroes or Double Duck necessarily 'boring', but ONLY having Ultraheroes and Double Duck in a monthly series for 1 to 2 years -- that I find extremely boring. When compared to what long-time publishers of Disney comics do in other countries, BOOM's method is very different indeed.
GeoX
Boom Titles -- Sept 2010
Message 29 -
2010-07-27 at 06:16:36
Well said. Forcing these serials into US comicbook format just doesn't work, regardless of their quality. The ideal format for them would be something along the lines of Gemstone's DD Adventures digest. 'Course, that got canceled pretty quick, so...
Donald_Duck
Boom Titles -- Sept 2010
Message 30 -
2010-07-27 at 08:34:19
I hear what you guys are saying, but I'm still pretty baffled when you compare what you're requesting versus what's been made available to you:
1) The old Disney Comics format (ODCF) had mostly shorter stories - Boom is an American comic book publisher. You can't fault them for following the industry standard format of having four issue spanning stories that collect into a trade paperback, down the road. And if I'm not mistaken, haven't the last 6 or 7 issues of WDCS and the first two issues of DuckTales contained multiple stories? Heck, even Ultraheroes had the classic origin stories of some of the characters that starred in the book, as backups.
2) The ODCF had different styles of stories, mostly traditional Barksian style where the characters were 'themselves' - Again I site 'Mickey Mouse & The World to Come,' and the current 'Quandomai Island.' Uncle Scrooge hasn't taken on any other role since the book was relaunched. And is Donald Duck NOT 'himself' in Double Duck? Does he NOT live in Duckburg? Is Uncle Scrooge still not his impatient boss demanding that he polish coins? Is Gladstone Gander still not showing up to sh*t in Donald's proverbial cereal with his impossible luck? Does Donald not drive the 313? That's three out of 5 for classic character books. Ultraheroes and Wizards of Mickey were given their own books after they filled one trade paperback each in the legacy titles. So what's the problem?
3) The ODCF had a combination of old and new stories - Boom classic hardcovers anyone? And now Fantagraphics has the license for classic creator anthologies. I think we'll be covered as far the older material goes.
4) The ODCF had mostly complete stories, rarely using long form ones - See point #1
5) The ODCF had stories from different sources - Maybe I'm reading InDucks incorrectly, but it appears to me that Boom has been using stories not only from Italy, but from the Netherlands as well. The ENTIRE first Uncle Scrooge arc appears that to have been published originally by Egmont (Netherlands).
6) The ODCF used 3-tier stories in smaller books, and 4-tier stories regular sized books - Aren't we being wee bit picky when regardless of the panel spread, we're still getting 22 pages of Disney comics in 5 different titles per month, when not too long ago, there were none?
I'm not trying to be condescending towards anybody's subjective tastes or preferences. I personally am huge on content, and I was NOT a fan of the 'Hunt for the Old Number-One' (zzzzzzzzzz). I'm just not sure how so many people who champion Disney comics complain about a publisher taking a different approach to putting out these books simply because it's not done in the way they remember them. I've seen the debate on whether or not the Gemstone books were just as financially successful as Boom's, but what you can't argue with is that the last two companies who published Disney comics in the ODCF aren't around anymore. Maybe it's time to embrace a little bit of change; and I hope by the points I addressed above, you can see that it's not that much.
For goodness sake, Boom's had a little over a year with this license, and they've done some quality stuff. Maybe over time, with a bit more support (honey vs vinegar), they'll get even better. If these dudes don't try to reach different audiences, other than the hardcore fans of many years, who'll be left to care about the legacy of these characters in comics when we're all gone?
1) The old Disney Comics format (ODCF) had mostly shorter stories - Boom is an American comic book publisher. You can't fault them for following the industry standard format of having four issue spanning stories that collect into a trade paperback, down the road. And if I'm not mistaken, haven't the last 6 or 7 issues of WDCS and the first two issues of DuckTales contained multiple stories? Heck, even Ultraheroes had the classic origin stories of some of the characters that starred in the book, as backups.
2) The ODCF had different styles of stories, mostly traditional Barksian style where the characters were 'themselves' - Again I site 'Mickey Mouse & The World to Come,' and the current 'Quandomai Island.' Uncle Scrooge hasn't taken on any other role since the book was relaunched. And is Donald Duck NOT 'himself' in Double Duck? Does he NOT live in Duckburg? Is Uncle Scrooge still not his impatient boss demanding that he polish coins? Is Gladstone Gander still not showing up to sh*t in Donald's proverbial cereal with his impossible luck? Does Donald not drive the 313? That's three out of 5 for classic character books. Ultraheroes and Wizards of Mickey were given their own books after they filled one trade paperback each in the legacy titles. So what's the problem?
3) The ODCF had a combination of old and new stories - Boom classic hardcovers anyone? And now Fantagraphics has the license for classic creator anthologies. I think we'll be covered as far the older material goes.
4) The ODCF had mostly complete stories, rarely using long form ones - See point #1
5) The ODCF had stories from different sources - Maybe I'm reading InDucks incorrectly, but it appears to me that Boom has been using stories not only from Italy, but from the Netherlands as well. The ENTIRE first Uncle Scrooge arc appears that to have been published originally by Egmont (Netherlands).
6) The ODCF used 3-tier stories in smaller books, and 4-tier stories regular sized books - Aren't we being wee bit picky when regardless of the panel spread, we're still getting 22 pages of Disney comics in 5 different titles per month, when not too long ago, there were none?
I'm not trying to be condescending towards anybody's subjective tastes or preferences. I personally am huge on content, and I was NOT a fan of the 'Hunt for the Old Number-One' (zzzzzzzzzz). I'm just not sure how so many people who champion Disney comics complain about a publisher taking a different approach to putting out these books simply because it's not done in the way they remember them. I've seen the debate on whether or not the Gemstone books were just as financially successful as Boom's, but what you can't argue with is that the last two companies who published Disney comics in the ODCF aren't around anymore. Maybe it's time to embrace a little bit of change; and I hope by the points I addressed above, you can see that it's not that much.
For goodness sake, Boom's had a little over a year with this license, and they've done some quality stuff. Maybe over time, with a bit more support (honey vs vinegar), they'll get even better. If these dudes don't try to reach different audiences, other than the hardcore fans of many years, who'll be left to care about the legacy of these characters in comics when we're all gone?