Keskustelujen arkisto

From: Cord Wiljes (cord at wiljes.de)
Subject: AW: Yo Ho Ho
>>>I do not think they would be squished by air pressure. That's
because the high density air would also fill their lungs from the
inside which would counteract the pressure from the outside.
Which is why fishes are not squished even thousands of meters
below the surface and why deep sea divers have to add pressure
as they go down.

Let me make sure you know what you're saying here! Deep sea divers withstand
pressures of water a hundred feet deep. Those fish you mention (which
explode if brought to the surface since they are designed to ONLY exist at
depths of "thousands of meters") are, as you say "thousands of meters" under
water ... perhaps a mere few miles. Are you comparing that to being under a
column of air *8,000 MILES TALL*?! Forget if the super-duper-mega-hyper air
pressure was in a person's lungs... what about his eardrums? What about his
ability to try to breathe (only Clark Kent would have the lung muscles)?
What about his eyebulbs and his liquid-filled veins and the honeycombed
bones.... can you even conceive of the pressure that an 8,000 mile tall
column of air would exert on something, anything, much less a living thing?
I think not. It boggles the mind.

Cord wrote:
>Hole only to the center of the earth: duck would burn, then crash
>Hole all the way to the other side: duck would yoyo several times
>and finally stop at the center of the earth (quite burned up, of course)

If possible, let's put a stop to this roast duck theory.
First of all, the example from "The Duck Who Fell To Earth" describes
re-entry into Earths atmosphere from orbit. The apparent weightlessness
experienced in orbit is caused not by being removed from Earth's gravity but
from being in a permanent free fall around the Earth. This requires a
forward motion of about 8 km/second in the Space Shuttle orbit height of 100
km (relative to the distance of 6000 km from the center of the earth, it
does not change much with altitude).
This forward motion makes you - as delightfully and accurately described in
another work of fiction - fall, but just exactly miss the ground

It is also this speed which is converted to friction energy (heat) when a
body leaves orbit and enters the atmosphere, i.e. brakes down to the speed
of the surface under him, which is about 0.5 km/second at the equator. I
assume that the mass of the decelerating body is a determining factor for
the converted kinetic energy, and that a space shuttle of 100 tons produces
a lot more heat than a 50 pound duck - which on the other hand would be
equipped with lot less protection from the heat.

The cause of this braking effect which is used intentionally to match speeds
of the shuttle and the landing strip is of course is the increased air
density nearer to the Earth's surface, which in turn increases drag. In the
lower layers of the atmosphere drag will cause a falling human body to reach
a maximum speed (a.k.a. terminal velocity) of about 200 km/h, before the
pressure of the 'air cushion' under him stops further acceleration.
Only by increasing aerodynamic capability or adding an engine will higher
speed be possible to obtain.

Needless to say, you can go a lot faster than that on the ground in a sports
car, and you are perfectly cool. :-)

The interesting thing is that continuing this line of thought, it is clear
that falling below the surface of the earth increases air pressure and
thereby (slowly) reduces the speed with which you are falling. Incidentally
the atmosphere will at a certain depth become liquid and a question is if a
person inside a military grade pressure suit would even have to bring a
shovel to dig through a solid atmosphere a couple of thousand kilometers
under our feet? A regular hand-held shovel, naturally, since a steam shovel
probably wouldn't work...

Gentlemen, start your engineering!

-- Ole

PASCAL OOST, 24-03-2004:

> A word of advice to all diggers:
> to avoid bruises while falling through the center of the Earth,
> a straight tunnel will not do.

I think that those stories by Geradts/Verhagen and Rosa should have
been accompanied with a warning not to try this at home. Apart from
personal danger, those ideas are VERY destastrous for the environment.
After a while of drilling and Omnisolve, the Earth would look like
a cheese.

This has to stop. Right now. Go ruin another planet.
A planet without mothers, children, or furry animals.

--- Dani?l

"Kijk, ik boor gewoon een gat door de aarde!"
("Look! I'll just drill a hole through the Earth!")

Hi everyone!

Germund:

>>>> I got a question today about a Mickey Mouse story with a mine and
>>>> some gold colored cowboy ghosts. Does anybody recognize this? I
>>>> believe I have read quite a few Mickey stories over the years, and
>>>> perhaps even this one, but I just can't pin it down.

It may not be the one you ahve in mind, but this makes me think of a
Gottfredson story. One sure way to know: did it feature Eega Beeva? If it
did, it may very well be "Itching Gulch", by Bill Walsh & Floyd Gottfredson
(Aug 8 - Oct 22, 1949). Were the cowboys ghostlike?

Olivier

Don wrote:

> can you even conceive of the pressure that an 8,000
> mile tall column of air would exert on something,
> anything, much less a living thing?

The main problem in calculating this is the fact that you
have to consider two opposing factors:

- the air gets more and more compressed towards the core,
which adds to the pressure - and denser matter weighs more.
- gravity is reduced as you get nearer to the core - and
thus the air weights less.

But even a _very_ conservative estimate confirms your
theory:

- air gets liquid under a pressure of 200 atmospheres
- 200 times the height of our atmosphere is 2.000 km
=> the rest of the 4.000 km to the center is liquid air
(cf. the deepest sea is just 12 km)

(Please don't hit me for this approximation. I know the real numbers
would be even higher, but just to get a feeling it may be sufficient.)

So I stand corrected - no chance for humans, ducks or bowling balls.

Pascal wrote:
> to avoid bruises while falling through the center
> of the Earth, a straight tunnel will not do. Because
> of the Earth's rotation, a Duck falling through
> it will follow a Spirography-kind of orbit around
> the Earth's center.

Wow - cool! Never thought of that. So let's drill the
hole through the poles to remove this obstacle.

Ole wrote:
> If possible, let's put a stop to this roast duck theory.

Yes, you are right. The velocity gained just by falling is
not high enough to generate the heat to burn a body.
Meteorites burn because they already have a very high velocity
when they enter earth's atmosphere.

> The apparent weightlessness experienced in orbit is caused
> not by being removed from Earth's gravity but
> from being in a permanent free fall around the Earth.

Yes, technically objects in (stationary) orbit are in free fall.
The centrifugal force equals the gravitational pull of the earth
and therefore they do not crash.

Cord

> Hi whoever you are. Does the ? in your name(H?vard) stand for an 'o' with
> an accent on top of it?

H?vard writes his name with an ? - if you see it as a question mark this
time as well, it's an A with ring over. The 29th letter in the Norwegian
language.

Hi all!

Here are the previews of Disney comics coming out in June 2004 from Previews
Volume XIV #4.

Donald Duck and Friends #317--- In "Not Distant Enough" Donald tries to solve
the mystery of an Easter Island-like statue he unearths in his backyard.
Mickey tries to make a better dog out of Pluto in "Mascot Training." And Donald
takes a job in a clock store in "A Duck in the Works." FC, 32 pages $2.95.

Walt Disney's Vacation Parade #1--- A holiday special featuring Mickey,
Donald, and Grandma Duck! The wraparound cover is a recreation of the original
Christmas Parade(I assume this is a mistake) #1 cover, restored by Rick Keene. The
interior consists of three vintage Carl Barks stories from the original
issue: "Vacation Time," "Camp Counselor," and "Donald's Grandma Duck," as well as
"The Monster Whale," Paul Murry's first Mickey Mouse adventure. Prestige
Format. SC, 7x10, 80 pages, FC $8.95(With a price tag like this, I'm glad Gemstone
only celebrates two holidays a year. ;)

Mickey Mouse and Friends #266--- Mickey tries to foil a plan to steal an
entire amusement park in "The Fastest Place on Earth." Donald and Gladstone face
off on the latest reality show in "Terror at Talbot Bay." Two short stories
featuring Horace Horsecollar and Goofy, respectively, wrap the book. FC, 32 pages
$2.95

Uncle Scrooge #331--- Scrooge's plans to make his Money Bin a sovereign
nation backfire in "His Majesty, McDuck," a classic Don Rosa reprint. Then Daan
Jippes serves up his latest recreation of a Barks-scripted Junior Woodchucks
story, "Wailing Whalers." A Grandma Duck and an Uncle Scrooge short wrap the book.
Prestige Format. SC, 7x10, 64 pages, FC $6.95

Walt Disney's Comics and Stories #646--- A new cover by William Van Horn
commemorates Donald's birthday. Inside, Donald's cranky until he accidently
inhales laughing gas, in "Just For Laughs," Van Horn's latest. Carl Barks' first
Donald 10-pager, "Victory Garden," as well as short stories featuring Mickey,
Daisy, Junior Woodchucks, and Big Bad Wolf round out the book. Prestige Format.
SC, 7x10, 64 pages, FC, $6.95.

Walt Disney's Mickey Mouse--- This Disney anthology book is a holiday special
featuring Mickey, Donald and Grandma Duck(Wow! Never knew there were so many
Grandma stories). The cover and lead story are reprinted from Mickey Mouse
Four Color #79: "Riddle of the Red Hat." This was Carl Barks' one and only Mickey
adventure! Also included is "The Second Richest Duck," Barks' introduction of
Flintheart Glomgold from Uncle Scrooge #15. FC, 32 pages FREE(the best price
;)

The last title is Gemstone's contribution to Free Comic Book Day if the price
didn't tip you off. Looks like a worthy successor to last year's "Mahajarah
Donald." I've read the Flintheart story, but it's free so I can't complain
about that part.

Referring to WDC #646, I hope the Bucky Bug stories continue to show up in
that title often.

All in all, a couple of reprint stories I've already read, but almost all new
to me. Looks like a nice month. I wonder when we'll start seeing Romano
Scarpa stories(particularly ones that have never been shown in the US). Gemstone
will surely run out of Don Rosa stories to re-reprint at some point. ;) (Though
I've never read "His Majesty, McDuck", so that's a reprint I'm looking forward
to).

BTW, my compliments to Gemstone on their reprint of "The Tuckered Tiger" in
US #328. You can tell the source for the reprint was straight out of the CBL,
which I guess is why it looks so crisp compared to a couple of their Barks'
reprints of the past year.

Okay, I'll end this message before it turns into a book!

Derek Smith