Stefan wrote:
> Scanning might be legal after 75 years, though.
I am planning to still be around when Don Rosa's works enter the public domain. As the early Gottfredson's already have and the Barks' are going to when I retire :-)
Another legal question: Which country's copyright law applys for works created abroad? Let us say a Disney comic is created in Italy by an Italian creator for the Italian Disney publisher. Does Italian copyright law apply or U.S. copyrigt law?
Cord
Author
Topic: 200501
(67 messages)
Cord Wiljes
AW: Some legal concepts
Message 16 -
2005-01-04 at 19:29:34
Le Richard
AW: Some legal concepts
Message 17 -
2005-01-04 at 20:18:34
Le mardi 4 Janvier 2005 18:29, Cord Wiljes a ?crit?:
> Stefan wrote:
> > Scanning might be legal after 75 years, though.
>
> I am planning to still be around when Don Rosa's works enter the public
> domain. As the early Gottfredson's already have and the Barks' are going to
> when I retire :-)
That won't work because Disney and other companies will make pressure to
expand the 75-years limit (like I think they did, several times[?]). And even
if you normally have the right, Disney will sue you if you publish anything
with Disney comics for trademark violation (or something else even if not
legitimate) [like they once did with an unfortunate publisher?], and you
won't be able to afford lawyers expenses to fight them in court.
> Another legal question: Which country's copyright law applys for works
> created abroad? Let us say a Disney comic is created in Italy by an Italian
> creator for the Italian Disney publisher. Does Italian copyright law apply
> or U.S. copyrigt law?
My guess is Italian copyright law only. Any U.S. law is irrelevant in a
European court (or other courts in non-US countries). It matters only in very
special cases, like when a EU country would not extradite someone to the US
because of the death penalty.
--
I'm not reading mails sent to lerichard at free.fr anymore. To contact me use
f-wi at induREMOVE.also.THIScks (remove the hyphen and add ".org").
> Stefan wrote:
> > Scanning might be legal after 75 years, though.
>
> I am planning to still be around when Don Rosa's works enter the public
> domain. As the early Gottfredson's already have and the Barks' are going to
> when I retire :-)
That won't work because Disney and other companies will make pressure to
expand the 75-years limit (like I think they did, several times[?]). And even
if you normally have the right, Disney will sue you if you publish anything
with Disney comics for trademark violation (or something else even if not
legitimate) [like they once did with an unfortunate publisher?], and you
won't be able to afford lawyers expenses to fight them in court.
> Another legal question: Which country's copyright law applys for works
> created abroad? Let us say a Disney comic is created in Italy by an Italian
> creator for the Italian Disney publisher. Does Italian copyright law apply
> or U.S. copyrigt law?
My guess is Italian copyright law only. Any U.S. law is irrelevant in a
European court (or other courts in non-US countries). It matters only in very
special cases, like when a EU country would not extradite someone to the US
because of the death penalty.
--
I'm not reading mails sent to lerichard at free.fr anymore. To contact me use
f-wi at induREMOVE.also.THIScks (remove the hyphen and add ".org").
Stefan Persson
AW: Some legal concepts
Message 18 -
2005-01-04 at 20:27:05
Cord Wiljes wrote:
> Another legal question: Which country's copyright law applys for works created abroad? Let us say a Disney comic is created in Italy by an Italian creator for the Italian Disney publisher. Does Italian copyright law apply or U.S. copyrigt law?
And what country's copyright laws apply for e.g. a story for the Danish
publisher, written by someone in China and drawn by someone in France?
Stefan
> Another legal question: Which country's copyright law applys for works created abroad? Let us say a Disney comic is created in Italy by an Italian creator for the Italian Disney publisher. Does Italian copyright law apply or U.S. copyrigt law?
And what country's copyright laws apply for e.g. a story for the Danish
publisher, written by someone in China and drawn by someone in France?
Stefan
Herbert Snorrason
AW: Some legal concepts
Message 19 -
2005-01-04 at 20:33:12
On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 19:27:05 +0100, Stefan Persson <spe at inducks.org> wrote:
> And what country's copyright laws apply for e.g. a story for the Danish
> publisher, written by someone in China and drawn by someone in France?
The one in which the story is read. Copyright violation is no
different from any other violation of law; the contry in which the
offence takes place has jurisdiction.
--
Schw?che zeigen hei?t verlieren;
h?rte hei?t regieren.
- "Glas und Tr?nen", Megaherz
> And what country's copyright laws apply for e.g. a story for the Danish
> publisher, written by someone in China and drawn by someone in France?
The one in which the story is read. Copyright violation is no
different from any other violation of law; the contry in which the
offence takes place has jurisdiction.
--
Schw?che zeigen hei?t verlieren;
h?rte hei?t regieren.
- "Glas und Tr?nen", Megaherz
Le Richard
AW: Some legal concepts
Message 20 -
2005-01-04 at 21:36:56
Le mardi 4 Janvier 2005 19:33, Herbert Snorrason a ?crit?:
> On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 19:27:05 +0100, Stefan Persson <spe at inducks.org> wrote:
> > And what country's copyright laws apply for e.g. a story for the Danish
> > publisher, written by someone in China and drawn by someone in France?
>
> The one in which the story is read. Copyright violation is no
> different from any other violation of law; the contry in which the
> offence takes place has jurisdiction.
Exactly. I think one could also sue someone in his country for things that he
did in another country when he is back in his own country. For instance, a
German court comdemned a German for abusing children in Thailand, once he get
back in Germany. Likewise, France never extradites its own citizens (even for
murder or anything), but they give the possibility to any party to sue him in
France, where of course only French laws will apply.
There are copyright laws in most countries, although they are of course all
different.
If you publish something on the internet on a server hosted by a particular
country, and it's illegal according to the laws of another country, the
offended party can not do much against you. For instance, Yahoo hosted Nazi
propaganda images on their US server, which was found illegal in France (and
not in the US). A juge association sued Yahoo, and could win only because
Yahoo had a French subsidee that they could sue, and fine. I think that if
Yahoo were only located in the US, they wouldn't have been able to do much.
I don't know if there is any country where copyright laws are very permissible
so that you could publish Disney comics stories from that place (anyway
Disney could sue you in that country and you would not stand a chance).
--
I'm not reading mails sent to lerichard at free.fr anymore. To contact me use
f-wi at induREMOVE.also.THIScks (remove the hyphen and add ".org").
> On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 19:27:05 +0100, Stefan Persson <spe at inducks.org> wrote:
> > And what country's copyright laws apply for e.g. a story for the Danish
> > publisher, written by someone in China and drawn by someone in France?
>
> The one in which the story is read. Copyright violation is no
> different from any other violation of law; the contry in which the
> offence takes place has jurisdiction.
Exactly. I think one could also sue someone in his country for things that he
did in another country when he is back in his own country. For instance, a
German court comdemned a German for abusing children in Thailand, once he get
back in Germany. Likewise, France never extradites its own citizens (even for
murder or anything), but they give the possibility to any party to sue him in
France, where of course only French laws will apply.
There are copyright laws in most countries, although they are of course all
different.
If you publish something on the internet on a server hosted by a particular
country, and it's illegal according to the laws of another country, the
offended party can not do much against you. For instance, Yahoo hosted Nazi
propaganda images on their US server, which was found illegal in France (and
not in the US). A juge association sued Yahoo, and could win only because
Yahoo had a French subsidee that they could sue, and fine. I think that if
Yahoo were only located in the US, they wouldn't have been able to do much.
I don't know if there is any country where copyright laws are very permissible
so that you could publish Disney comics stories from that place (anyway
Disney could sue you in that country and you would not stand a chance).
--
I'm not reading mails sent to lerichard at free.fr anymore. To contact me use
f-wi at induREMOVE.also.THIScks (remove the hyphen and add ".org").
Dooma®
AW: Some legal concepts
Message 21 -
2005-01-04 at 22:04:07
I'm wondering who you can find so many comics on the internet exchanged
freely!!!!!
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dcml-bounces at stp.ling.uu.se [mailto:dcml-bounces at stp.ling.uu.se] On
> Behalf Of le Richard
> Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 8:19 PM
> To: dcml at stp.ling.uu.se
> Subject: Re: AW: Some legal concepts
>
> Le mardi 4 Janvier 2005 18:29, Cord Wiljes a ?crit :
> > Stefan wrote:
> > > Scanning might be legal after 75 years, though.
> >
> > I am planning to still be around when Don Rosa's works enter the public
> > domain. As the early Gottfredson's already have and the Barks' are going
> to
> > when I retire :-)
>
> That won't work because Disney and other companies will make pressure to
> expand the 75-years limit (like I think they did, several times[?]). And
> even
> if you normally have the right, Disney will sue you if you publish
> anything
> with Disney comics for trademark violation (or something else even if not
> legitimate) [like they once did with an unfortunate publisher?], and you
> won't be able to afford lawyers expenses to fight them in court.
>
> > Another legal question: Which country's copyright law applys for works
> > created abroad? Let us say a Disney comic is created in Italy by an
> Italian
> > creator for the Italian Disney publisher. Does Italian copyright law
> apply
> > or U.S. copyrigt law?
>
> My guess is Italian copyright law only. Any U.S. law is irrelevant in a
> European court (or other courts in non-US countries). It matters only in
> very
> special cases, like when a EU country would not extradite someone to the
> US
> because of the death penalty.
>
> --
> I'm not reading mails sent to lerichard at free.fr anymore. To contact me
> use
> f-wi at induREMOVE.also.THIScks (remove the hyphen and add ".org").
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> http://stp.ling.uu.se/mailman/listinfo/dcml
freely!!!!!
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dcml-bounces at stp.ling.uu.se [mailto:dcml-bounces at stp.ling.uu.se] On
> Behalf Of le Richard
> Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 8:19 PM
> To: dcml at stp.ling.uu.se
> Subject: Re: AW: Some legal concepts
>
> Le mardi 4 Janvier 2005 18:29, Cord Wiljes a ?crit :
> > Stefan wrote:
> > > Scanning might be legal after 75 years, though.
> >
> > I am planning to still be around when Don Rosa's works enter the public
> > domain. As the early Gottfredson's already have and the Barks' are going
> to
> > when I retire :-)
>
> That won't work because Disney and other companies will make pressure to
> expand the 75-years limit (like I think they did, several times[?]). And
> even
> if you normally have the right, Disney will sue you if you publish
> anything
> with Disney comics for trademark violation (or something else even if not
> legitimate) [like they once did with an unfortunate publisher?], and you
> won't be able to afford lawyers expenses to fight them in court.
>
> > Another legal question: Which country's copyright law applys for works
> > created abroad? Let us say a Disney comic is created in Italy by an
> Italian
> > creator for the Italian Disney publisher. Does Italian copyright law
> apply
> > or U.S. copyrigt law?
>
> My guess is Italian copyright law only. Any U.S. law is irrelevant in a
> European court (or other courts in non-US countries). It matters only in
> very
> special cases, like when a EU country would not extradite someone to the
> US
> because of the death penalty.
>
> --
> I'm not reading mails sent to lerichard at free.fr anymore. To contact me
> use
> f-wi at induREMOVE.also.THIScks (remove the hyphen and add ".org").
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> http://stp.ling.uu.se/mailman/listinfo/dcml
Stefan Persson
AW: Some legal concepts
Message 22 -
2005-01-04 at 22:10:09
Dooma? wrote:
> I'm wondering who you can find so many comics on the internet exchanged
> freely!!!!!
"Who" = "how"? In that case: Because not everyone follows the laws.
Stefan
> I'm wondering who you can find so many comics on the internet exchanged
> freely!!!!!
"Who" = "how"? In that case: Because not everyone follows the laws.
Stefan
Olaf Solstrand
OT: May the giant rest in peace
Message 23 -
2005-01-05 at 01:54:14
The man is dead, but what he left for the world of comics will live
forever. He has inspired so many of us, and will probably after hundreds
of years still be remembered for revolutioning comic books. Rest in peace,
Will Eisner.
(sorry for being off-topic. More information: http://www.willeisner.com )
--
Olaf Solstrand
forever. He has inspired so many of us, and will probably after hundreds
of years still be remembered for revolutioning comic books. Rest in peace,
Will Eisner.
(sorry for being off-topic. More information: http://www.willeisner.com )
--
Olaf Solstrand
John Lustig
Re-Copyright laws in different countries.
Message 24 -
2005-01-05 at 08:55:18
on 1/4/05 12:05 PM, dcml-request at stp.ling.uu.se at
dcml-request at stp.ling.uu.se wrote:
> There are copyright laws in most countries, although they are of course all
> different.
Actually, there is an international agreement between many countries
regarding copyright laws. It?s called the Berne Convention. I can?t say that
I know much about it. Maybe someone else on the list does.
Best Wishes,
John Lustig
Sign up for free weekly Last Kiss e-mail comics at www.lastkisscomics.com
dcml-request at stp.ling.uu.se wrote:
> There are copyright laws in most countries, although they are of course all
> different.
Actually, there is an international agreement between many countries
regarding copyright laws. It?s called the Berne Convention. I can?t say that
I know much about it. Maybe someone else on the list does.
Best Wishes,
John Lustig
Sign up for free weekly Last Kiss e-mail comics at www.lastkisscomics.com
Lerichard
Re-Copyright laws in different countries.
Message 25 -
2005-01-05 at 10:35:24
Quoting John Lustig <john at lastkisscomics.com>:
> Actually, there is an international agreement between many countries
> regarding copyright laws. It?s called the Berne Convention.
From what I know I think the convention is aimed at recognizing copyrights of
works between different countries but local laws will still apply obviously.
In European laws you have different moral rights for authors (some of which
could not be sold in FR) that I suspect are quite different in America.
This information is hard to get because very few lawyers will explain it clearly
(the less you know, the better it is for their business?).
> Actually, there is an international agreement between many countries
> regarding copyright laws. It?s called the Berne Convention.
From what I know I think the convention is aimed at recognizing copyrights of
works between different countries but local laws will still apply obviously.
In European laws you have different moral rights for authors (some of which
could not be sold in FR) that I suspect are quite different in America.
This information is hard to get because very few lawyers will explain it clearly
(the less you know, the better it is for their business?).
Cord Wiljes
AW: Re-Copyright laws in different countries.
Message 26 -
2005-01-05 at 11:43:11
A lot of useful information on copyright laws can be found on the
wikipedia site:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_law
Some excerpts of interest to our current discussion:
Copyrights do not protect ideas or facts, however, but only the
particular expression of an idea. A copyright on a Mickey Mouse cartoon,
for example, would not prevent others from creating artistic works about
talking mice, but only limit their rights to distribute the original
Disney's cartoon and their ability to create derivative works copying
that particular talking mouse too closely.
(...)
copyright (and patent) protection is set for a limited,
statutorily-defined number of years, during which the copyright owner
does not actually have to make use of his work in order to keep others
from doing so. After the term is up, the copyrighted work enters the
public domain and is available for anyone to freely use
(...)
Copyright also does not prohibit all forms of copying. In the United
States, the fair use doctrine, codified as 17 U.S.C. Section 107, allows
copying and distribution. The statute does not clearly define fair use,
but rather gives four non-exclusive factors to consider in a fair use
analysis.
(...)
The original owner of the copyright may be the employer of the actual
author rather than the author himself if the work is a "work for hire".
(...)
The Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works,
adopted at Berne in 1886, first established the recognition of
copyrights between sovereign nations. It was developed at the
instigation of Victor Hugo.
Cord
wikipedia site:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_law
Some excerpts of interest to our current discussion:
Copyrights do not protect ideas or facts, however, but only the
particular expression of an idea. A copyright on a Mickey Mouse cartoon,
for example, would not prevent others from creating artistic works about
talking mice, but only limit their rights to distribute the original
Disney's cartoon and their ability to create derivative works copying
that particular talking mouse too closely.
(...)
copyright (and patent) protection is set for a limited,
statutorily-defined number of years, during which the copyright owner
does not actually have to make use of his work in order to keep others
from doing so. After the term is up, the copyrighted work enters the
public domain and is available for anyone to freely use
(...)
Copyright also does not prohibit all forms of copying. In the United
States, the fair use doctrine, codified as 17 U.S.C. Section 107, allows
copying and distribution. The statute does not clearly define fair use,
but rather gives four non-exclusive factors to consider in a fair use
analysis.
(...)
The original owner of the copyright may be the employer of the actual
author rather than the author himself if the work is a "work for hire".
(...)
The Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works,
adopted at Berne in 1886, first established the recognition of
copyrights between sovereign nations. It was developed at the
instigation of Victor Hugo.
Cord
Herbert Snorrason
Re-Copyright laws in different countries.
Message 27 -
2005-01-05 at 13:08:05
On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 09:35:24 +0100, lerichard at free.fr <lerichard at free.fr> wrote:
> >From what I know I think the convention is aimed at recognizing copyrights of
> works between different countries but local laws will still apply obviously.
The chief objective of the Berne Convention is to make copyright law
similar enough that copyrights can be enforced between the parties.
The convention, for instance, dictates a term of fifty years after
author's death. It demands that copyrights be provided without any
special registration, and specifies what sort of things must be
subject to copyright.
> In European laws you have different moral rights for authors (some of which
> could not be sold in FR) that I suspect are quite different in America.
The anglo-american concept of copyright is very different from the
continental "Droit d'Autour"; in particular the "author's right" is
regarded as a natural right of creators while copyright is NOT.
> This information is hard to get because very few lawyers will explain it clearly
> (the less you know, the better it is for their business?).
Point me at a profession that doesn't do this to at least some extent..? ;)
--
Schw?che zeigen hei?t verlieren;
h?rte hei?t regieren.
- "Glas und Tr?nen", Megaherz
> >From what I know I think the convention is aimed at recognizing copyrights of
> works between different countries but local laws will still apply obviously.
The chief objective of the Berne Convention is to make copyright law
similar enough that copyrights can be enforced between the parties.
The convention, for instance, dictates a term of fifty years after
author's death. It demands that copyrights be provided without any
special registration, and specifies what sort of things must be
subject to copyright.
> In European laws you have different moral rights for authors (some of which
> could not be sold in FR) that I suspect are quite different in America.
The anglo-american concept of copyright is very different from the
continental "Droit d'Autour"; in particular the "author's right" is
regarded as a natural right of creators while copyright is NOT.
> This information is hard to get because very few lawyers will explain it clearly
> (the less you know, the better it is for their business?).
Point me at a profession that doesn't do this to at least some extent..? ;)
--
Schw?che zeigen hei?t verlieren;
h?rte hei?t regieren.
- "Glas und Tr?nen", Megaherz
Ornaldo Blum
Aw: Some legal concepts
Message 28 -
2005-01-05 at 23:40:19
"Dooma"
>I'm wondering who you can find so many comics on the
>internet exchanged freely!!!!!
Do you ask where you can find such comics. Dozens are
posted daily on usenet: alt.binaries.pictures.comics
and alt.binaries.pictures.comics.repost. Nearly all of
them are extremely old comics from the 50s/60s.
If you are from USA, also support Gemstone and buy
their comics.
Ornaldo from La Paz
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
>I'm wondering who you can find so many comics on the
>internet exchanged freely!!!!!
Do you ask where you can find such comics. Dozens are
posted daily on usenet: alt.binaries.pictures.comics
and alt.binaries.pictures.comics.repost. Nearly all of
them are extremely old comics from the 50s/60s.
If you are from USA, also support Gemstone and buy
their comics.
Ornaldo from La Paz
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
Jason Gerstein
When is Black Knights Glorps Again coming to Gemstone?
Message 29 -
2005-01-11 at 03:01:47
Hey all,
I was just curious if anyone knew when Don Rosa's 'The Black Knight Glorps
Again' is going to be printed in the US by Gemstone? Someone posted the
first half online months ago but I never saw the end and I am wicked
curious! Anyone in 'the know'?
-Jason
www.rabidferret.com
AIM: rabidtarsier
I was just curious if anyone knew when Don Rosa's 'The Black Knight Glorps
Again' is going to be printed in the US by Gemstone? Someone posted the
first half online months ago but I never saw the end and I am wicked
curious! Anyone in 'the know'?
-Jason
www.rabidferret.com
AIM: rabidtarsier
Olaf Solstrand
Don Rosa mentioned in New York Times
Message 30 -
2005-01-11 at 06:09:40
If anyone's interested and didn't already know - Don Rosa was mentioned in
an article in the New York Times Friday (January 7th).
In the article "An epic gave Finns a lot to sing about", Cori Ellison
(dramaturge at the New York City opera) writes about Kalevala and things
inspired by it - among them Song of Hiawatha, Lord of the Rings, the heavy
metal band Amorphis "and "Kalevala" tarot decks, video games and comic
books abound, including Don Rosa's "Tale of the Sampo," featuring Donald
Duck".
The article can be read here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/07/arts/music/07scan.html
(requires free registration - reading the article is free as long as it is
less than a week old.)
--
Olaf Solstrand
an article in the New York Times Friday (January 7th).
In the article "An epic gave Finns a lot to sing about", Cori Ellison
(dramaturge at the New York City opera) writes about Kalevala and things
inspired by it - among them Song of Hiawatha, Lord of the Rings, the heavy
metal band Amorphis "and "Kalevala" tarot decks, video games and comic
books abound, including Don Rosa's "Tale of the Sampo," featuring Donald
Duck".
The article can be read here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/07/arts/music/07scan.html
(requires free registration - reading the article is free as long as it is
less than a week old.)
--
Olaf Solstrand