Quote from user: Roger NorthYou can believe that Scrooge and Grandma are siblings if you want to but I choose to believe what Don Rosa says.
As I said, I actually do not really stick all too convinced to the European siblings theory. But speaking of Grandma Duck, I have got a different question: Can anybody here tell, which artist or author came up as the first with Grandma's real name "Elvira Coot" or who decreed that to be her name respectively? If I get the whole story the right way, she had nothing but the "name" Grandma Duck at the outset (Taliaferro), and--I may be wrong here, since I haven't got access to the original versions of those marginal Grandma Duck stories that were left out in the CBLiC--that is also how she is only called in Barks' stories. Barks at least labelled her simply "Grandma Duck" in the two outlines of the Duck family tree he made ...
I did not find information about that in the Net. Wherever I looked around it is just noted without further explanation that E. C. was the proper name of G. D.
Author
Topic: Favorite story?
(62 messages)
Coolwater
Favorite story?
Message 46 -
2010-01-10 at 22:57:29
Ramapith
Favorite story?
Message 47 -
2010-01-11 at 10:26:15
Grandma's first name of Elvira (spelled??there??in the rural style, "Elviry") comes from her solo story in WDC&S 121 (1950).
There's a later solo story in CHRISTMAS PARADE 5 (1953) that inconsistently calls her Abigail. Oh, well.
There's a later solo story in CHRISTMAS PARADE 5 (1953) that inconsistently calls her Abigail. Oh, well.
Lars Jensen
Favorite story?
Message 48 -
2010-01-11 at 12:06:44
Quote from user: Coolwater[...]the Egmont doctrine that the two were brother and sister.
My former editor has worked at Egmont for more than 30 years, and he has never heard of this doctrine. Where did you hear this?
Quote from user: ramapithQuote from user: CoolwaterCan anybody here tell, which artist or author came up as the first with Grandma's real name "Elvira Coot"
Grandma's first name of Elvira (spelled??there??in the rural style, "Elviry") comes from her solo story in WDC&S 121 (1950).
There's a later solo story in CHRISTMAS PARADE 5 (1953) that inconsistently calls her Abigail. Oh, well.
What ramapith said. The combination "Elvira Coot" was, as far as I know, created by Don Rosa.
Quote from user: Coolwateror who decreed that to be her name respectively?
I don't know about other publishers, but no one at Egmont has decreed that Elvira Coot is Grandma Duck's real name.
My former editor has worked at Egmont for more than 30 years, and he has never heard of this doctrine. Where did you hear this?
Quote from user: ramapithQuote from user: CoolwaterCan anybody here tell, which artist or author came up as the first with Grandma's real name "Elvira Coot"
Grandma's first name of Elvira (spelled??there??in the rural style, "Elviry") comes from her solo story in WDC&S 121 (1950).
There's a later solo story in CHRISTMAS PARADE 5 (1953) that inconsistently calls her Abigail. Oh, well.
What ramapith said. The combination "Elvira Coot" was, as far as I know, created by Don Rosa.
Quote from user: Coolwateror who decreed that to be her name respectively?
I don't know about other publishers, but no one at Egmont has decreed that Elvira Coot is Grandma Duck's real name.
Roger North
Favorite story?
Message 49 -
2010-01-11 at 14:09:39
I agree with Ramapith that Don Rosa came up with the idea of Grandma Duck being Cornelius Coot's Granddaughter.
Kneon
Favorite story?
Message 50 -
2010-01-11 at 15:52:57
Quote from user: Lars JensenI don't know about other publishers, but no one at Egmont has decreed that Elvira Coot is Grandma Duck's real name.
Then someone ought to correct Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandma_Duck
Then someone ought to correct Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandma_Duck
Sim
Favorite story?
Message 51 -
2010-01-11 at 16:35:16
Surely, "Paperino e la scoperta dell'Italia"
Coolwater
Favorite story?
Message 52 -
2010-01-11 at 17:17:39
@ ramapith and Lars Jensen: Thanks a lot! That clears up a lot for me.
I must say I'm surprised to hear that it did not happen, as it seems, before Don Rosa that Grandma Duck got the last name "Coot". That's quite late indeed.
Quote from user: Lars JensenMy former editor has worked at Egmont for more than 30 years, and he has never heard of this doctrine. Where did you hear this?
Certainly not an enunciated doctrine in the literal sense, but as far as I know Scrooge and Grandma have been presented as siblings in the stories generally more or less continuously in the Egmont countries in the past, but also elsewhere in Europe. Until Rosa.
Quote:I don't know about other publishers, but no one at Egmont has decreed that Elvira Coot is Grandma Duck's real name.
It would be that anyway just in the English-language comics. If the old lady bears that full proper name really only in Rosa's stories (?), one is overwhelmed a bit that everywhere in the Net it is taken as a sort of clear-cut and self-evident fact that Grandma Duck's name was Elvira Coot, e.g. in that Wikipedia article. That shows again the impressing dominance of the "Interpretatio Rosae" among the broad fan folk. With his systematisation and further construction work on Barksian grounds, Rosa clearly appealed to a deep yearning of many and gave satisfaction to it, but my opinion is also that "facts" that he established can or should not really claim more validity than those of whatever arbitrary non-Barks.
I must say I'm surprised to hear that it did not happen, as it seems, before Don Rosa that Grandma Duck got the last name "Coot". That's quite late indeed.
Quote from user: Lars JensenMy former editor has worked at Egmont for more than 30 years, and he has never heard of this doctrine. Where did you hear this?
Certainly not an enunciated doctrine in the literal sense, but as far as I know Scrooge and Grandma have been presented as siblings in the stories generally more or less continuously in the Egmont countries in the past, but also elsewhere in Europe. Until Rosa.
Quote:I don't know about other publishers, but no one at Egmont has decreed that Elvira Coot is Grandma Duck's real name.
It would be that anyway just in the English-language comics. If the old lady bears that full proper name really only in Rosa's stories (?), one is overwhelmed a bit that everywhere in the Net it is taken as a sort of clear-cut and self-evident fact that Grandma Duck's name was Elvira Coot, e.g. in that Wikipedia article. That shows again the impressing dominance of the "Interpretatio Rosae" among the broad fan folk. With his systematisation and further construction work on Barksian grounds, Rosa clearly appealed to a deep yearning of many and gave satisfaction to it, but my opinion is also that "facts" that he established can or should not really claim more validity than those of whatever arbitrary non-Barks.
Lars Jensen
Favorite story?
Message 53 -
2010-01-11 at 18:09:17
Quote from user: KneonQuote from user: Lars JensenI don't know about other publishers, but no one at Egmont has decreed that Elvira Coot is Grandma Duck's real name.
Then someone ought to correct Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandma_Duck
Kneon, you can either play Sisyphus and spend lots of time correcting most of the Disney Duck-related entries on Wikipedia while arguing with the people who have written those entries... or you can just (like I do) shrug your shoulders and accept that those entries have been written from a rosaist perspective.
Quote from user: CoolwaterCertainly not an enunciated doctrine in the literal sense, but as far as I know Scrooge and Grandma have been presented as siblings in the stories generally more or less continuously in the Egmont countries in the past, but also elsewhere in Europe.
Not in the Danish publications, at least. Before Rosa, there were three theories about Grandma and Scrooge's relationship. "They're siblings", "they're cousins" and the most popular one: "we don't know, and we don't care".
Then someone ought to correct Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandma_Duck
Kneon, you can either play Sisyphus and spend lots of time correcting most of the Disney Duck-related entries on Wikipedia while arguing with the people who have written those entries... or you can just (like I do) shrug your shoulders and accept that those entries have been written from a rosaist perspective.
Quote from user: CoolwaterCertainly not an enunciated doctrine in the literal sense, but as far as I know Scrooge and Grandma have been presented as siblings in the stories generally more or less continuously in the Egmont countries in the past, but also elsewhere in Europe.
Not in the Danish publications, at least. Before Rosa, there were three theories about Grandma and Scrooge's relationship. "They're siblings", "they're cousins" and the most popular one: "we don't know, and we don't care".
Kneon
Favorite story?
Message 54 -
2010-01-11 at 18:33:53
I think because "The Life and Times of Scrooge McDuck" has been often been promoted as *the* definitive "biography" of the character, Rosa's stories have come to be accepted as the "final word" by many people. In the U.S. "Life and Times" has been read by many non-Disney comics fans (likely due in part to its Eisner-award winning status), and seems to be the "gateway" book for a lot of folks into the Duck universe.
I enjoy Rosa's duck stories, but I also enjoy Rota's, and Van Horn's, and Vicar's, etc. etc. I've always viewed "Life and Times" as one fan-turned-creator's attempt to form a cohesive backstory for a cartoon character whose history was often left (deliberately, at times, I think) ambiguous by his original creator.
Good stuff, but not gospel. Just one interpretation of Scrooge.
Plus, if you believe Rosa's timeline as gospel... Scrooge is dead and buried and no more new stories can be written about him. As an aspiring Disney creator myself, I really don't like that scenario very much, do you? ;)
(You may begin pelting rocks at me now... ha ha!)
I enjoy Rosa's duck stories, but I also enjoy Rota's, and Van Horn's, and Vicar's, etc. etc. I've always viewed "Life and Times" as one fan-turned-creator's attempt to form a cohesive backstory for a cartoon character whose history was often left (deliberately, at times, I think) ambiguous by his original creator.
Good stuff, but not gospel. Just one interpretation of Scrooge.
Plus, if you believe Rosa's timeline as gospel... Scrooge is dead and buried and no more new stories can be written about him. As an aspiring Disney creator myself, I really don't like that scenario very much, do you? ;)
(You may begin pelting rocks at me now... ha ha!)
Coolwater
Favorite story?
Message 55 -
2010-01-11 at 19:21:52
Quote from user: Lars JensenNot in the Danish publications, at least. Before Rosa, there were three theories about Grandma and Scrooge's relationship. "They're siblings", "they're cousins" and the most popular one: "we don't know, and we don't care".
You're probably right here. I thought that I heard something like that it was the same in all Egmont countries, but I guess it is not really such unisonous allover.
In the German comics, that siblings thing was (and is) something that is just running "along the way" as a general idea, when the two may call the other occasionally brother or sister respectively, but I suppose of the responsible editors and translators nobody would have bet on it and wanted to elaborate that as a real relationship theory. Such is the fan(atic)s' part. ;)
You're probably right here. I thought that I heard something like that it was the same in all Egmont countries, but I guess it is not really such unisonous allover.
In the German comics, that siblings thing was (and is) something that is just running "along the way" as a general idea, when the two may call the other occasionally brother or sister respectively, but I suppose of the responsible editors and translators nobody would have bet on it and wanted to elaborate that as a real relationship theory. Such is the fan(atic)s' part. ;)
Kneon
Favorite story?
Message 56 -
2010-01-11 at 19:33:59
Apparently Grandma Duck's relation to Scrooge has come up before over on DCML: http://nafsk.se/pipermail/dcml/2003-August/018483.html
Stefan
Favorite story?
Message 57 -
2010-01-11 at 22:00:43
Quote from user: KneonPlus, if you believe Rosa's timeline as gospel... Scrooge is dead and buried and no more new stories can be written about him. As an aspiring Disney creator myself, I really don't like that scenario very much, do you? ;)
Anyone may write new stories about someone who is dead. However, they would have to take place in the past, so it would not be possible to make a story with Uncle Scrooge where, for example, mobile phones, computers or the euro currency are used. But there are plenty of Uncle Scrooge stories containing mobile phones and computers, and in some translations the euro currency is used in Duckburg. So obviously he can't have died back in 1947 (as stated by Rosa).
Anyone may write new stories about someone who is dead. However, they would have to take place in the past, so it would not be possible to make a story with Uncle Scrooge where, for example, mobile phones, computers or the euro currency are used. But there are plenty of Uncle Scrooge stories containing mobile phones and computers, and in some translations the euro currency is used in Duckburg. So obviously he can't have died back in 1947 (as stated by Rosa).
Coolwater
Favorite story?
Message 58 -
2010-01-12 at 00:47:49
Quote from user: StefanSo obviously he can't have died back in 1947 (as stated by Rosa).
You mean 1967, of course. Bear Mountain would have been a bit early for the old miser to say farewell. ;)
http://duckman.pettho.com/history/hd1991_a.gif
(Source)
I just see that I never noticed the rings around Donald's and Daisy's fingers before. "Hey, Daisy? Whatever happened to 'lucky' Gladstone?" would be another interesting question. Maybe this here, har, har, har!
You mean 1967, of course. Bear Mountain would have been a bit early for the old miser to say farewell. ;)
http://duckman.pettho.com/history/hd1991_a.gif
(Source)
I just see that I never noticed the rings around Donald's and Daisy's fingers before. "Hey, Daisy? Whatever happened to 'lucky' Gladstone?" would be another interesting question. Maybe this here, har, har, har!
Kneon
Favorite story?
Message 59 -
2010-01-12 at 01:54:04
Quote from user: StefanQuote from user: KneonPlus, if you believe Rosa's timeline as gospel... Scrooge is dead and buried and no more new stories can be written about him. As an aspiring Disney creator myself, I really don't like that scenario very much, do you? ;)
Anyone may write new stories about someone who is dead. However, they would have to take place in the past, so it would not be possible to make a story with Uncle Scrooge where, for example, mobile phones, computers or the euro currency are used. But there are plenty of Uncle Scrooge stories containing mobile phones and computers, and in some translations the euro currency is used in Duckburg. So obviously he can't have died back in 1947 (as stated by Rosa).
Yeah, I was mainly meaning new stories past the 1960s. If Rosa's timeline is to be taken as gospel, then all Scrooge writers are locked into writing stories that take place in the 1950s or early 1960s. As you've pointed out, many Scrooge stories have obviously taken place in more modern times, and are technically just as "canonical" as Rosa's.
I like how Marvel handles aging characters. They have a "sliding timeline." Basically, with a character like Spiderman they say he has been Spiderman for 8-10 years prior to this month's stories. Flashbacks usually adjust the actual time period, but the story remains pretty much the same.
So in Scrooge's case, Marvel would probably have him meeting a more recent president instead of Roosevelt in their flashbacks. ;)
While I do enjoy Rosa's take on Scrooge as a historical figure, I don't think Barks ever intended Scrooge to be stuck in the past. He wrote of Uncle Scrooge in the present tense, which just happened to be the 1950s and 1960s at the time Barks created those stories. Had the stories been written in the 1990s or 2000s, Scrooge probably would've been surfing the web. ;)
Anyone may write new stories about someone who is dead. However, they would have to take place in the past, so it would not be possible to make a story with Uncle Scrooge where, for example, mobile phones, computers or the euro currency are used. But there are plenty of Uncle Scrooge stories containing mobile phones and computers, and in some translations the euro currency is used in Duckburg. So obviously he can't have died back in 1947 (as stated by Rosa).
Yeah, I was mainly meaning new stories past the 1960s. If Rosa's timeline is to be taken as gospel, then all Scrooge writers are locked into writing stories that take place in the 1950s or early 1960s. As you've pointed out, many Scrooge stories have obviously taken place in more modern times, and are technically just as "canonical" as Rosa's.
I like how Marvel handles aging characters. They have a "sliding timeline." Basically, with a character like Spiderman they say he has been Spiderman for 8-10 years prior to this month's stories. Flashbacks usually adjust the actual time period, but the story remains pretty much the same.
So in Scrooge's case, Marvel would probably have him meeting a more recent president instead of Roosevelt in their flashbacks. ;)
While I do enjoy Rosa's take on Scrooge as a historical figure, I don't think Barks ever intended Scrooge to be stuck in the past. He wrote of Uncle Scrooge in the present tense, which just happened to be the 1950s and 1960s at the time Barks created those stories. Had the stories been written in the 1990s or 2000s, Scrooge probably would've been surfing the web. ;)
Kneon
Favorite story?
Message 60 -
2010-01-12 at 02:03:50
Quote from user: CoolwaterI just see that I never noticed the rings around Donald's and Daisy's fingers before. "Hey, Daisy? Whatever happened to 'lucky' Gladstone?" would be another interesting question. Maybe this here, har, har, har!
Everybody's luck has to run out sometime. ;)
Everybody's luck has to run out sometime. ;)