Keskustelujen arkisto

Shoot. I think I posted my repsonse in the wrong thread (posted in the Panchito one). But the same sentiments echo from there to here.

You refer to the image a "pickaninny stereotype," and MVBlair calls it a "Mammy." But?going back and looking at it now, I'm not sure how it qualifies as any kind of ethnic image.

Scrooge is tossed out of the village by the tribesmen in what's supposed to be an embarrassing condition (because the tribe wanted to embarrass him). He's been comically marked up all over with warpaint; he has bones tied to his hair and whiskers and his body "costumed" in a pigskin.
It's not so different in tone from another humiliation gag one page earlier, in which Scrooge was splattered on the head with a painted ostrich egg.

As far as ethnic stereotypes go, a "mammy" is physically an overweight African-American lady with her hair in a bandanna, while a "pickaninny" is an African-American child dressed in rags with a huge number of bows tied in his/her hair. How does the disguised Scrooge look like either of these?and why, for that matter, would African natives embarrass Scrooge by disguising him as one?
Scrooge looks appropriately silly, but not ethnic.

[David,
I accidentally hit "Edit" instead of "Quote" and typed my reply over your message; fortunately, it was a copy from the "Panchito" thread, so I was able to paste it here back again; I don't think anything is missing. All my apologies. :(
Olivier]

Quote from user: ramapithAs far as ethnic stereotypes go, a "mammy" is physically an overweight African-American lady with her hair in a bandanna
... as seen (partly) in Tom & Jerry cartoons, for instance-- it's what I thought of when I read this here.
Leonard Maltin also comments on the "blackface" characters saying "Mammy" when introducing a few Disney cartoons.

I think MV used the term for lack of a better phrase.

Quote from user: ArgonautHow does the disguised Scrooge look like either of these?and why, for that matter, would African natives embarrass Scrooge by disguising him as one?
Scrooge looks appropriately silly, but not ethnic.
Well, there are a few stereotypical features, no doubt about. The point, as pointed out, is to ridicule him; there may be two reasons for doing it this way:
- because they don't know how to make him willy without using features from their own culture (which to the reader is stereotypical; I'm considering these natives' culture, not any actual culture)
- because they consider that making a voodoo-like doll of Scrooge, in other words, disguising him into something which is part of their culture-- of the culture he does not respect and insults--, in some way thus, disguising him into one of them (in a highly stylized way), is the worst insult and punishment (make enemy look like what he despises the most, namely, you)

Quote from user: OlivierWell, there are a few stereotypical features, no doubt about.
Which ones?? Where?? How does anyone see such things in there?

Seriously, people here are seeing something in these panels that just doesn't exist. Then blaming the artist for drawing something that isn't there, calling him a racist in doing so.

Quote:because they consider that making a voodoo-like doll of Scrooge, in other words, disguising him into something which is part of their culture
Umm, did anyone happen to notice that none of the natives appearing in that scene were drawn wearing pigskins with painted faces and bones in their hair?

Seems to me like you guys are imposing a desire to find offense on artwork that contains none.

Quote from user: "mvblair"I think that's the term that David Pilgrim (from http://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/menu.htm) uses for those types of images depicting Africans with bones in their hair.
I looked at all the stereotypes listed at the linked page, and didn't see this pygmy deal you're talking about. None of the images I did see even approached the pigskin scene either.

Quote:The fact of the matter is that the image in question is niether historical nor sociological. For me it represented an ugly stereotype that Don Rosa or any of the DCF users didn't see.
No, the fact of the matter is that you're blowing a skewed perception of an offensive joke that doesn't exist into a really offensive accusation.

Quote:It's a type of humor that I thought was dead long before the '90s
Well it saw no resurrection here.

Why and how are people seeing this stuff in here? To reiterate what Mr. Gerstein said, do you really think it would have made it to publication if it was what you accuse it to be?

Quote from user: Lars JensenWhere did anyone call Don Rosa a racist? Please show me a quote.
Alright, then implying he is either a racist and/or enjoys racial humor/stereotypes.

The point: it's uncalled for.

Also, mvblair did say he felt the gag to be racist. I personally see blurred lines between calling a gag racist and calling the gag-maker racist.

Personally, the subject of racism is an ugly sore that has been raw for much too long. The more one calls attention to it and scratches it, the longer it will take to heal for those who feel the itch.
And I'm not referring to this discussion alone.
It's unfortunate that in this day and age in this country in particular that has been such a melting pot of cultures, races and religions?and such a nation of fantastic opportunities for ALL peoples willing to work and educate themselves?the subject of race continuous to bear such burdensome weight.

Quote from user: Roger NorthLars Don Rosa recently sent me an E-mail telling me that mvblair accused him of being racist when he drew Scrooge dressed as a black mammy in other words he drew him tied in a pigsack with bones in his top feathers. Of Course I don't think it's the case at all.
Thanks, Roger. I didn't realize Don Rosa had emailed you in private.

And now I notice that you actually hinted at it in another post. You wrote:
Quote from user: Roger NorthI asked Don Rosa about that Black Mammy Thing and he said I could channel him. He said that putting Scrooge in a pigskin sack and putting bones in his hair does not qualify dressing him up as a black mammy. Don Rosa doesn't have control over the coloring notes for the foreign publications so don't assume that he does. You may think Don Rosa is racist but he is not and I think he would be offended if he knew that you think he is. Mvblair I don't know if you know this or not but Don Rosa sometimes visits and he would not like you accusing of him of being racist. That black mammy theory is all in your head. You should be careful what you say about people in the future because you know who you're going to offend.
I thought maybe you'd met him at a signing. Was all this something Don wrote you in that email?