I have no problem with the idea that Scrooge and Goldie had sexual relations, but I don't like these allusions in Rosa's stories. Making it so real looks sad to me.
On the other hand, I am not sure that children would have much trouble because of reading this. There are countless more disturbing things that children will see and read almost everyday (at least in France...).
Author
Topic: "Okay... Let's get on with it! Between the legs!"
(49 messages)
Cacou
"Okay... Let's get on with it! Between the legs!"
Message 16 -
2007-06-12 at 02:44:52
Morequack
"Okay... Let's get on with it! Between the legs!"
Message 17 -
2007-06-12 at 04:11:47
Quote from user: cacouOn the other hand, I am not sure that children would have much trouble because of reading this. There are countless more disturbing things that children will see and read almost everyday (at least in France...).
Exactly. So why leak them over onto Disney stories?
Exactly. So why leak them over onto Disney stories?
Robb_K
"Okay... Let's get on with it! Between the legs!"
Message 18 -
2007-06-12 at 12:14:36
To me the problem is Rosa's obvious effort to make a statement there. It's as if to say -"look here! Here is a joke for adults! As if to say that we can now enjoy Disney Duck stories more than before. We can throw of the chains of Disney's old image!"
I don't like it, because it adds nothing to my enjoyment, but actually takes me out of the story, back into the everyday World that I'm attempting to have a short escape from, by reading the story in the first place.
An estute reader could already be intrigued by Scrooge and Goldie spending days together at his mine. He/she could already have wondered whether they had a sexual releationship. They can come to their OWN conclusion. With Rosa's comment by Scrooge, we still don't know if they actually had a sexual encounter, -only that Scrooge is angry enough at Goldie's actions that he feels like being rude to her. It adds nothing to the story for me. I enjoy finding that he's human, too (and fallible). But I'm not sure I want to see him being rude to a woman (especially one about whom it is inferred that he has more than friendly feelings for).
I don't like it, because it adds nothing to my enjoyment, but actually takes me out of the story, back into the everyday World that I'm attempting to have a short escape from, by reading the story in the first place.
An estute reader could already be intrigued by Scrooge and Goldie spending days together at his mine. He/she could already have wondered whether they had a sexual releationship. They can come to their OWN conclusion. With Rosa's comment by Scrooge, we still don't know if they actually had a sexual encounter, -only that Scrooge is angry enough at Goldie's actions that he feels like being rude to her. It adds nothing to the story for me. I enjoy finding that he's human, too (and fallible). But I'm not sure I want to see him being rude to a woman (especially one about whom it is inferred that he has more than friendly feelings for).
Cacou
"Okay... Let's get on with it! Between the legs!"
Message 19 -
2007-06-12 at 14:51:59
Morequack
>>On the other hand, I am not sure that children would have much trouble because of reading this. There are countless more disturbing
>>things that children will see and read almost everyday (at least in France...).
> Exactly. So why leak them over onto Disney stories?
The fact X is more disturbing than Y doesn't mean Y (or X for that matter) is very disturbing!
Here in the U.S. streets I have seen much less of the stuff that we see in France. I would not say France's situation is better. But hopefully French children are not that much disturbed. Now it's getting really off-topic...
As I said I do not like the allusions in question in the Disney comic-books so I agree with you though we have some different reasons.
>>On the other hand, I am not sure that children would have much trouble because of reading this. There are countless more disturbing
>>things that children will see and read almost everyday (at least in France...).
> Exactly. So why leak them over onto Disney stories?
The fact X is more disturbing than Y doesn't mean Y (or X for that matter) is very disturbing!
Here in the U.S. streets I have seen much less of the stuff that we see in France. I would not say France's situation is better. But hopefully French children are not that much disturbed. Now it's getting really off-topic...
As I said I do not like the allusions in question in the Disney comic-books so I agree with you though we have some different reasons.
Morequack
"Okay... Let's get on with it! Between the legs!"
Message 20 -
2007-06-12 at 18:45:34
Let's look at it this way. Would YOU suggest to a lady, "Okay?¦ Let's get on with it! Between the legs!" as an oblique joke? And more importantly, would you want your son to say it? The simple fact is that the Disney company has a set of standards for a reason. Their readership is largely young people. Tasteless jokes read by young people (aka children) is clearly not desirable. To Disney and to most parents.
Robb_K
"Okay... Let's get on with it! Between the legs!"
Message 21 -
2007-06-12 at 19:24:28
Quote from user: MorequackLet's look at it this way. Would YOU suggest to a lady, "Okay?¦ Let's get on with it! Between the legs!" as an oblique joke? And more importantly, would you want your son to say it? The simple fact is that the Disney company has a set of standards for a reason. Their readership is largely young people. Tasteless jokes read by young people (aka children) is clearly not desirable. To Disney and to most parents.
Thou sayest verily a mouthful! And I agree. Sexual acts are personal communications between people, and making references to them to the rest of the World (any outsiders), it is a breach of that private trust. By the same token, making light of that relationship is cheapening it, and THAT'S what I feel is rude. I wouldn't say that to someone in spite and anger (which is clearly how Scrooge used it), and I don't want one of my heroes (Scrooge McDuck) using it that way, either.
Thou sayest verily a mouthful! And I agree. Sexual acts are personal communications between people, and making references to them to the rest of the World (any outsiders), it is a breach of that private trust. By the same token, making light of that relationship is cheapening it, and THAT'S what I feel is rude. I wouldn't say that to someone in spite and anger (which is clearly how Scrooge used it), and I don't want one of my heroes (Scrooge McDuck) using it that way, either.
Cacou
"Okay... Let's get on with it! Between the legs!"
Message 22 -
2007-06-12 at 19:47:38
>Let's look at it this way. Would YOU suggest to a lady, "Okay?¦ Let's get on with it! Between the legs!" as an oblique joke? And more
>importantly, would you want your son to say it? The simple fact is that the Disney company has a set of standards for a reason. Their
>readership is largely young people. Tasteless jokes read by young people (aka children) is clearly not desirable. To Disney and to
>most parents.
I think you point out the basic problem with this particular story of Don Rosa: it is sometimes vulgar without even being funny at all. | doubt that dubious jokes like this could be OK in a Disney Comics - not because it's vulgar per se but because it takes the characters out of their own world.
There are very funny although also sometimes "vulgar" jokes, in fact an immense part of litterature and comics is made out of that, but that doesn't fit with Disney comics.
>importantly, would you want your son to say it? The simple fact is that the Disney company has a set of standards for a reason. Their
>readership is largely young people. Tasteless jokes read by young people (aka children) is clearly not desirable. To Disney and to
>most parents.
I think you point out the basic problem with this particular story of Don Rosa: it is sometimes vulgar without even being funny at all. | doubt that dubious jokes like this could be OK in a Disney Comics - not because it's vulgar per se but because it takes the characters out of their own world.
There are very funny although also sometimes "vulgar" jokes, in fact an immense part of litterature and comics is made out of that, but that doesn't fit with Disney comics.
Morequack
"Okay... Let's get on with it! Between the legs!"
Message 23 -
2007-06-12 at 20:56:25
Quote from user: Robb_KAn estute reader could already be intrigued by Scrooge and Goldie spending days together at his mine. He/she could already have wondered whether they had a sexual releationship. They can come to their OWN conclusion. With Rosa's comment by Scrooge, we still don't know if they actually had a sexual encounter, -only that Scrooge is angry enough at Goldie's actions that he feels like being rude to her. It adds nothing to the story for me. I enjoy finding that he's human, too (and fallible). But I'm not sure I want to see him being rude to a woman (especially one about whom it is inferred that he has more than friendly feelings for).
In fact, page 30, frame 3 shows a bird's eye view of the cabin with the early morning sun at the left. We know from several previous panels that Scrooge and Goldie are inside. The cabin is now quiet, following a very boisterous, I would say violent, exchange between the two ducks. The next panel shows a similar angle of the cabin. Much time has elapsed, however, because now the sun is clearly to the west. We are led to assume that Scrooge and Goldie are still inside and have not come out all day??on a beautiful day. Then, in the very next panel, Goldie asks Scrooge if he thinks she should leave. And next, they both walk out of the cabin, Scooge following Goldie, and Scrooge, with a very red face admits that it would be for the best.
Reader, do the math. Did they, or didn't they? I think Rosa wants us to believe (hope) that they did.
In fact, page 30, frame 3 shows a bird's eye view of the cabin with the early morning sun at the left. We know from several previous panels that Scrooge and Goldie are inside. The cabin is now quiet, following a very boisterous, I would say violent, exchange between the two ducks. The next panel shows a similar angle of the cabin. Much time has elapsed, however, because now the sun is clearly to the west. We are led to assume that Scrooge and Goldie are still inside and have not come out all day??on a beautiful day. Then, in the very next panel, Goldie asks Scrooge if he thinks she should leave. And next, they both walk out of the cabin, Scooge following Goldie, and Scrooge, with a very red face admits that it would be for the best.
Reader, do the math. Did they, or didn't they? I think Rosa wants us to believe (hope) that they did.
Robb_K
"Okay... Let's get on with it! Between the legs!"
Message 24 -
2007-06-12 at 21:22:34
Quote from user: MorequackQuote from user: Robb_KAn estute reader could already be intrigued by Scrooge and Goldie spending days together at his mine. He/she could already have wondered whether they had a sexual releationship. They can come to their OWN conclusion. With Rosa's comment by Scrooge, we still don't know if they actually had a sexual encounter, -only that Scrooge is angry enough at Goldie's actions that he feels like being rude to her. It adds nothing to the story for me. I enjoy finding that he's human, too (and fallible). But I'm not sure I want to see him being rude to a woman (especially one about whom it is inferred that he has more than friendly feelings for).
In fact, page 30, frame 3 shows a bird's eye view of the cabin with the early morning sun at the left. We know from several previous panels that Scrooge and Goldie are inside. The cabin is now quiet, following a very boisterous, I would say violent, exchange between the two ducks. The next panel shows a similar angle of the cabin. Much time has elapsed, however, because now the sun is clearly to the west. We are led to assume that Scrooge and Goldie are still inside and have not come out all day??on a beautiful day. Then, in the very next panel, Goldie asks Scrooge if he thinks she should leave. And next, they both walk out of the cabin, Scooge following Goldie, and Scrooge, with a very red face admits that it would be for the best.
Reader, do the math. Did they, or didn't they? I think Rosa wants us to believe (hope) that they did.
Yes, that is clear. Again, I feel he has decided to tell (show) the reader too much. He has lead the reader by the hand. Isn't more exciting and wonderful for the reader to come to his/her own conclusions (as Barks did)? In Barks' story, it's clear to me that there was a "love" relationship between Scrooge and Goldie. So, one could easily assume that they had had a sexual relationship. But I'd rather "discover"/determine that for myself, than be led by the hand. It seems to have less value when dumped in my lap. Is Rosa a storyteller, or a reporter? Even a newspaper reporter has to use some "storytelling skills" as opposed to dry, scientific data listings.
There's no "magic" to me in storytelling that way. I much prefer Barks' approach.
In fact, page 30, frame 3 shows a bird's eye view of the cabin with the early morning sun at the left. We know from several previous panels that Scrooge and Goldie are inside. The cabin is now quiet, following a very boisterous, I would say violent, exchange between the two ducks. The next panel shows a similar angle of the cabin. Much time has elapsed, however, because now the sun is clearly to the west. We are led to assume that Scrooge and Goldie are still inside and have not come out all day??on a beautiful day. Then, in the very next panel, Goldie asks Scrooge if he thinks she should leave. And next, they both walk out of the cabin, Scooge following Goldie, and Scrooge, with a very red face admits that it would be for the best.
Reader, do the math. Did they, or didn't they? I think Rosa wants us to believe (hope) that they did.
Yes, that is clear. Again, I feel he has decided to tell (show) the reader too much. He has lead the reader by the hand. Isn't more exciting and wonderful for the reader to come to his/her own conclusions (as Barks did)? In Barks' story, it's clear to me that there was a "love" relationship between Scrooge and Goldie. So, one could easily assume that they had had a sexual relationship. But I'd rather "discover"/determine that for myself, than be led by the hand. It seems to have less value when dumped in my lap. Is Rosa a storyteller, or a reporter? Even a newspaper reporter has to use some "storytelling skills" as opposed to dry, scientific data listings.
There's no "magic" to me in storytelling that way. I much prefer Barks' approach.
Sprea
"Okay... Let's get on with it! Between the legs!"
Message 25 -
2007-06-15 at 14:32:09
Quote from user: MorequackQuote from user: SpreaI don't really understand why a 9-year-old boy or girl should see anything at all in that sentence. Only adults do - and chuckle - children don't...
Are you sure?
If they do, then there is no problem anyway because... they already know, indeed. But I am sure that most don't, yes.
But if the problem is not the sexual reference per se but the fact that Scrooge is being rude to Goldie... well, Scrooge was always (Barks) rode to Goldie when they were there, so, what's the problem? I never intended that as a justification to being rude to girls, when I was a kid, I don't understand why today's kids should. She was a thief, and he was teaching her a lesson, no matter her sex. That's how I learned it.
Are you sure?
If they do, then there is no problem anyway because... they already know, indeed. But I am sure that most don't, yes.
But if the problem is not the sexual reference per se but the fact that Scrooge is being rude to Goldie... well, Scrooge was always (Barks) rode to Goldie when they were there, so, what's the problem? I never intended that as a justification to being rude to girls, when I was a kid, I don't understand why today's kids should. She was a thief, and he was teaching her a lesson, no matter her sex. That's how I learned it.
Sprea
"Okay... Let's get on with it! Between the legs!"
Message 26 -
2007-06-15 at 14:33:47
Quote from user: Robb_KTo me the problem is Rosa's obvious effort to make a statement there.
Oh, come on now... the only "obvious" thing is an effort to make a joke, I really see no statements. You guys are taking a joke too seriously!
Oh, come on now... the only "obvious" thing is an effort to make a joke, I really see no statements. You guys are taking a joke too seriously!
Sprea
"Okay... Let's get on with it! Between the legs!"
Message 27 -
2007-06-15 at 14:36:26
Quote from user: MorequackLet's look at it this way. Would YOU suggest to a lady, "Okay?¦ Let's get on with it! Between the legs!" as an oblique joke? And more importantly, would you want your son to say it? The simple fact is that the Disney company has a set of standards for a reason. Their readership is largely young people. Tasteless jokes read by young people (aka children) is clearly not desirable. To Disney and to most parents.
I'll say that again. Young people wouldn't understand. And if they did, then "the damage would already be done" (even though I'm not sure it'd be a damage, it would depend on the circumstances). So I'm very glad nobody had the unhealthy idea to censor this very innocent sentence.
I'll say that again. Young people wouldn't understand. And if they did, then "the damage would already be done" (even though I'm not sure it'd be a damage, it would depend on the circumstances). So I'm very glad nobody had the unhealthy idea to censor this very innocent sentence.
Morequack
"Okay... Let's get on with it! Between the legs!"
Message 28 -
2007-06-15 at 17:06:17
Quote from user: SpreaQuote from user: MorequackLet's look at it this way. Would YOU suggest to a lady, "Okay?¦ Let's get on with it! Between the legs!" as an oblique joke? And more importantly, would you want your son to say it? The simple fact is that the Disney company has a set of standards for a reason. Their readership is largely young people. Tasteless jokes read by young people (aka children) is clearly not desirable. To Disney and to most parents.
I'll say that again. Young people wouldn't understand. And if they did, then "the damage would already be done" (even though I'm not sure it'd be a damage, it would depend on the circumstances). So I'm very glad nobody had the unhealthy idea to censor this very innocent sentence.
This "innocent" sentence is a tasteless remark of a sexual nature that I would not want my children "hearing" coming from the bill of their hero. Whether children understand it or not is not the point. Children may not understand Scrooge making an obscene gesture with his middle finger either, but no responsible adult would want to see that in a Disney magazine. Granted, Scrooge's remark was in context with the story, so as an adult reader I have no problem with it??although I believe the story would not have suffered one bit had it been left out. But we're not talking about an exclusively adult publication here. Adult Duck fans ought to keep this in mind. I'm not sure why/how Disney allowed this particular frame. I am surprised. Perhaps they have less control over TPBs, perhaps it would never "fly" in an UNCLE SCROOGE issue.
I'll say that again. Young people wouldn't understand. And if they did, then "the damage would already be done" (even though I'm not sure it'd be a damage, it would depend on the circumstances). So I'm very glad nobody had the unhealthy idea to censor this very innocent sentence.
This "innocent" sentence is a tasteless remark of a sexual nature that I would not want my children "hearing" coming from the bill of their hero. Whether children understand it or not is not the point. Children may not understand Scrooge making an obscene gesture with his middle finger either, but no responsible adult would want to see that in a Disney magazine. Granted, Scrooge's remark was in context with the story, so as an adult reader I have no problem with it??although I believe the story would not have suffered one bit had it been left out. But we're not talking about an exclusively adult publication here. Adult Duck fans ought to keep this in mind. I'm not sure why/how Disney allowed this particular frame. I am surprised. Perhaps they have less control over TPBs, perhaps it would never "fly" in an UNCLE SCROOGE issue.
Cacou
"Okay... Let's get on with it! Between the legs!"
Message 29 -
2007-06-15 at 18:33:30
Quote from user: MorequackI'm not sure why/how Disney allowed this particular frame. I am surprised.
Maybe they thought it is not such a big deal?
Maybe they thought it is not such a big deal?
Lars Jensen
"Okay... Let's get on with it! Between the legs!"
Message 30 -
2007-06-15 at 21:01:07
Quote from user: SpreaQuote from user: MorequackLet's look at it this way. Would YOU suggest to a lady, "Okay?¦ Let's get on with it! Between the legs!" as an oblique joke? And more importantly, would you want your son to say it? The simple fact is that the Disney company has a set of standards for a reason. Their readership is largely young people. Tasteless jokes read by young people (aka children) is clearly not desirable. To Disney and to most parents.
I'll say that again. Young people wouldn't understand. And if they did, then "the damage would already be done" (even though I'm not sure it'd be a damage, it would depend on the circumstances). So I'm very glad nobody had the unhealthy idea to censor this very innocent sentence.
I realize this is a very hypothetical situation, but... Imagine if Disney comics started featuring graphic sex scenes. According to your logic, young kids wouldn't understand and if they did, "the damage would already be done". So would those kind of scenes be OK with you? Yes or no?
Quote from user: cacouQuote from user: MorequackI'm not sure why/how Disney allowed this particular frame. I am surprised.
Maybe they thought it is not such a big deal?
Or perhaps they didn't see it. None of us know whether they have.
I'll say that again. Young people wouldn't understand. And if they did, then "the damage would already be done" (even though I'm not sure it'd be a damage, it would depend on the circumstances). So I'm very glad nobody had the unhealthy idea to censor this very innocent sentence.
I realize this is a very hypothetical situation, but... Imagine if Disney comics started featuring graphic sex scenes. According to your logic, young kids wouldn't understand and if they did, "the damage would already be done". So would those kind of scenes be OK with you? Yes or no?
Quote from user: cacouQuote from user: MorequackI'm not sure why/how Disney allowed this particular frame. I am surprised.
Maybe they thought it is not such a big deal?
Or perhaps they didn't see it. None of us know whether they have.