We've never seen them in a present-day story, and Scrooge is considered the last of the Clan McDuck which might preclude Hortense being alive, but it still seems odd to me if they were dead. Rosa once declared both Hortense and Matilda dead, but later revealed Matilda was alive, just very, very far out of contact, and Hortense was younger than she was. Given how long some of the Disney ducks were stated to have lived per Rosa's timeline, it seems odd that Hortense would predecease Scrooge (who seemed about a decade older and seemed to be in pretty bad health for a while before he met his nephews, and, perhaps more significantly, for Quackmore to die before his own mother.
Not saying this sort of thing doesn't happen (and I'd know; my uncle died well before his father, my grandfather did, and my grandmother's still alive), but it tends to be the exception, not the rule. And even if we accept Hortense might be dead, there's nothing I know of stating where Quackmore (or Della, for that matter) is to the best of my knowledge.
So, what does everyone think. Where are they?
Author
Topic: Are Hortense and Quackmore dead?
(43 messages)
Majestic_Picnob
Are Hortense and Quackmore dead?
Message 1 -
2014-06-02 at 03:33:43
Opel Rekord1985
Are Hortense and Quackmore dead?
Message 2 -
2014-06-02 at 07:38:22
Yeah excactly, I really hope at least ONE of these 3 you mentioned, Della, Hortense or Quackmore.
From what I have read is that Don Rosa declared Hortense dead.. but I personally think she should be alive, but she is mentioned a few times.
But somewhere online, wiki or something. I read that "Hortense was officially declared dead by the writer(or author i can't remember) so hm, not sure tho if everyone would have Declared her dead.
But della could just be in a different country and should have a chance to return later, like Matilda did! :)
From what I have read is that Don Rosa declared Hortense dead.. but I personally think she should be alive, but she is mentioned a few times.
But somewhere online, wiki or something. I read that "Hortense was officially declared dead by the writer(or author i can't remember) so hm, not sure tho if everyone would have Declared her dead.
But della could just be in a different country and should have a chance to return later, like Matilda did! :)
Roger North
Are Hortense and Quackmore dead?
Message 3 -
2014-06-02 at 11:25:14
I think that Hortense and Quackmore are dead and maybe Della too. She's either dead or in prison.
Baar Baar Jinx
Are Hortense and Quackmore dead?
Message 4 -
2014-06-02 at 14:15:06
Quote from user: Roger NorthI think that Hortense and Quackmore are dead and maybe Della too. She's either dead or in prison.
I believe that Rosa stated that he wanted to have Hortense still be alive, but was voted down by his editors.
That said, yes, I really can't see a plausible in-universe explanation for the unnatural absence of large swathes of the Duck/McDuck family tree in present-day stories, other than their being dead. This includes Hortense and Quackmore, Gladstone's parents, and Grandma's son Eider (who, per Rosa, is Fethry's and Whitewater's father). A tragedy that wiped out multiple members in one go, such as a plane crash or a car accident, might be feasible. Della and her as-yet unidentified husband may be a separate case as it seems Rosa had other revelations in mind for them (sensitivity to the fact that not everyone necessarily subscribes to Rosa's version of events notwithstanding). It's hard to imagine HD&L being entrusted to Donald's care if their grandparents (Hortense and Quackmore, but I suppose their paternal grandparents too) were still around. There's also the thorny question of who raised Donald and Della ... that's another controversial issue that's been dealt with extensively on other threads, but does become germane to any discussion on Hortense and Quackmore.
Della in prison? Could make for an interesting story ....
Quote from user: Majestic_PicnobWe've never seen them in a present-day story, and Scrooge is considered the last of the Clan McDuck which might preclude Hortense being alive, but it still seems odd to me if they were dead.
Scrooge was considered "the last of the Clan McDuck" even when his sisters were very obviously alive ... seems to be a very male-centric designation.
I believe that Rosa stated that he wanted to have Hortense still be alive, but was voted down by his editors.
That said, yes, I really can't see a plausible in-universe explanation for the unnatural absence of large swathes of the Duck/McDuck family tree in present-day stories, other than their being dead. This includes Hortense and Quackmore, Gladstone's parents, and Grandma's son Eider (who, per Rosa, is Fethry's and Whitewater's father). A tragedy that wiped out multiple members in one go, such as a plane crash or a car accident, might be feasible. Della and her as-yet unidentified husband may be a separate case as it seems Rosa had other revelations in mind for them (sensitivity to the fact that not everyone necessarily subscribes to Rosa's version of events notwithstanding). It's hard to imagine HD&L being entrusted to Donald's care if their grandparents (Hortense and Quackmore, but I suppose their paternal grandparents too) were still around. There's also the thorny question of who raised Donald and Della ... that's another controversial issue that's been dealt with extensively on other threads, but does become germane to any discussion on Hortense and Quackmore.
Della in prison? Could make for an interesting story ....
Quote from user: Majestic_PicnobWe've never seen them in a present-day story, and Scrooge is considered the last of the Clan McDuck which might preclude Hortense being alive, but it still seems odd to me if they were dead.
Scrooge was considered "the last of the Clan McDuck" even when his sisters were very obviously alive ... seems to be a very male-centric designation.
Gooey98
Are Hortense and Quackmore dead?
Message 5 -
2014-06-02 at 21:42:21
If I remember correctly, Don Rosa's idea was that HD&L's parents somehow ended up in Tralla La (Xanadu), right?
Majestic_Picnob
Are Hortense and Quackmore dead?
Message 6 -
2014-06-02 at 22:54:43
From scans-daily, I come bearing gifts. Specifically, this comment (http://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/335725.html?thread=8375405#cmt8375405) from someone who was present at an interview with Barks himself, where he was asked what became of Della. The answer, straight from the architect of the Duckverse? She had the kids too young, got fed up after a few years, dumped them off on her brother, and skipped town. Further, it seems Barks said that Della and her husband were not particularly good parents, and basically let them do whatever they wanted, which led to things like the firecracker incident - Donald is actually a much better guardian, believe it or not.
So yeah, it kinda sounds like Della's a pretty terrible person, albeit as something of a tragic consequence of starting a family too early. Is this answer official? No idea, but it's likely the best one we'll ever get.
So yeah, it kinda sounds like Della's a pretty terrible person, albeit as something of a tragic consequence of starting a family too early. Is this answer official? No idea, but it's likely the best one we'll ever get.
Opel Rekord1985
Are Hortense and Quackmore dead?
Message 7 -
2014-06-03 at 08:46:45
Quote from user: Majestic_PicnobFrom scans-daily, I come bearing gifts. Specifically, this comment (http://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/335725.html?thread=8375405#cmt8375405) from someone who was present at an interview with Barks himself, where he was asked what became of Della. The answer, straight from the architect of the Duckverse? She had the kids too young, got fed up after a few years, dumped them off on her brother, and skipped town. Further, it seems Barks said that Della and her husband were not particularly good parents, and basically let them do whatever they wanted, which led to things like the firecracker incident - Donald is actually a much better guardian, believe it or not.
So yeah, it kinda sounds like Della's a pretty terrible person, albeit as something of a tragic consequence of starting a family too early. Is this answer official? No idea, but it's likely the best one we'll ever get.
Ah, that explains what happened to della and it seems to me she's alive! but shame she's that bad of a person to dump them onto Donald, but well, we wouldn't have the stories about them if Donald wasn't their guardian.
So yeah, it kinda sounds like Della's a pretty terrible person, albeit as something of a tragic consequence of starting a family too early. Is this answer official? No idea, but it's likely the best one we'll ever get.
Ah, that explains what happened to della and it seems to me she's alive! but shame she's that bad of a person to dump them onto Donald, but well, we wouldn't have the stories about them if Donald wasn't their guardian.
GeoX
Are Hortense and Quackmore dead?
Message 8 -
2014-06-03 at 15:39:51
'Course, Rosa's oeuvre definitely doesn't support the simple "they were shitty parents" thesis. I don't think it's a bad one, though; sometimes people are irresponsible, and that's all there is to it.
Baar Baar Jinx
Are Hortense and Quackmore dead?
Message 9 -
2014-06-03 at 16:23:37
Quote from user: GeoX'Course, Rosa's oeuvre definitely doesn't support the simple "they were shitty parents" thesis. I don't think it's a bad one, though; sometimes people are irresponsible, and that's all there is to it.
Rosa would hit the roof at the merest suggestion, of course (he seems to put Della on a pedestal and even refuses to accept Dumbella as a name the mother of those "noble kids" could ever be bestowed with), but there's nothing in his own published works or established continuity that invalidates the tongue-in-cheek, "Della was a single teenage mom and HD&L were born out of wedlock with no father in the picture" theory that someone on that scans-daily forum espoused. It would explain why HD&L apparently carry their mother's last name, why their father has never been revealed, even by Rosa, and why their paternal grandparents are seemingly irrelevant. Nothing that a kid-friendly Disney comic book could openly validate, of course, but in an extended fandom that accepts Dickie Duck as spinster Goldie's granddaughter that Scrooge just happens to feel somewhat responsible for, and dances around the undertones that arise from the Scrooge-Rumpus relationship ("brief marriage", indeed) not all that out in left field. The only thing that invalidates the theory is the letter Della apparently wrote to Donald saying that the boys lit a firecracker under their father's chair ... but then how much credence you want to give that little factoid is at your discretion.
Rosa would hit the roof at the merest suggestion, of course (he seems to put Della on a pedestal and even refuses to accept Dumbella as a name the mother of those "noble kids" could ever be bestowed with), but there's nothing in his own published works or established continuity that invalidates the tongue-in-cheek, "Della was a single teenage mom and HD&L were born out of wedlock with no father in the picture" theory that someone on that scans-daily forum espoused. It would explain why HD&L apparently carry their mother's last name, why their father has never been revealed, even by Rosa, and why their paternal grandparents are seemingly irrelevant. Nothing that a kid-friendly Disney comic book could openly validate, of course, but in an extended fandom that accepts Dickie Duck as spinster Goldie's granddaughter that Scrooge just happens to feel somewhat responsible for, and dances around the undertones that arise from the Scrooge-Rumpus relationship ("brief marriage", indeed) not all that out in left field. The only thing that invalidates the theory is the letter Della apparently wrote to Donald saying that the boys lit a firecracker under their father's chair ... but then how much credence you want to give that little factoid is at your discretion.
Majestic_Picnob
Are Hortense and Quackmore dead?
Message 10 -
2014-06-03 at 16:42:14
I recall reading somewhere that Rosa wanted to do a story about what became of Della and her husband, but decided not to as he couldn't think of a way to end it. If HDL's parents were found, Donald would presumably have to give custody back to them, which would preclude them accompanying him on his adventures, but the only alternative he could think of - Della and her husband were unfit parents and Donald retains custody - he didn't think would make it past the censors, so he shelved it.
Baar Baar Jinx
Are Hortense and Quackmore dead?
Message 11 -
2014-06-03 at 16:50:28
Quote from user: Majestic_PicnobI recall reading somewhere that Rosa wanted to do a story about what became of Della and her husband, but decided not to as he couldn't think of a way to end it. If HDL's parents were found, Donald would presumably have to give custody back to them, which would preclude them accompanying him on his adventures, but the only alternative he could think of - Della and her husband were unfit parents and Donald retains custody - he didn't think would make it past the censors, so he shelved it.
As was mentioned above, he apparently intended that the ultimate fate of HD&L's parents was somehow related to Tralla La; but since he never actually wrote and published the story (or elaborated any further, AFAIK), it didn't happen.
As was mentioned above, he apparently intended that the ultimate fate of HD&L's parents was somehow related to Tralla La; but since he never actually wrote and published the story (or elaborated any further, AFAIK), it didn't happen.
Opel Rekord1985
Are Hortense and Quackmore dead?
Message 12 -
2014-06-03 at 20:32:21
I'm glad rosa thought of that, as I really like Della and wish she had actually been involved with everything but oh well, thanks to you above.
Majestic_Picnob
Are Hortense and Quackmore dead?
Message 13 -
2014-06-03 at 21:05:13
The biggest evidence I see against a mass Duck family mortality? Grandma is way too happy. Grandpa is certainly deceased, but Grandma does not behave like someone who has outlived half her younger relatives. At the very least I think Uncle Eider is alive - he sent Donald his falcon, and as his sons are both grown and a supporting character and minor character respectively, it's not too strange we don't see him.
Baar Baar Jinx
Are Hortense and Quackmore dead?
Message 14 -
2014-06-03 at 22:16:49
Quote from user: Majestic_PicnobThe biggest evidence I see against a mass Duck family mortality? Grandma is way too happy. Grandpa is certainly deceased, but Grandma does not behave like someone who has outlived half her younger relatives. At the very least I think Uncle Eider is alive - he sent Donald his falcon, and as his sons are both grown and a supporting character and minor character respectively, it's not too strange we don't see him.
Well, you could argue that the human spirit is resilient and that any such tragedy would have occurred several years in the past .... life must go on, I guess. The concept does make Grandma a very tragic figure. But you make a good point about Eider, I'd forgotten about his being mentioned in the Farragut story (which is where Rosa got his name in the first place). If he's alive, though, I still maintain that we should see him.
Well, you could argue that the human spirit is resilient and that any such tragedy would have occurred several years in the past .... life must go on, I guess. The concept does make Grandma a very tragic figure. But you make a good point about Eider, I'd forgotten about his being mentioned in the Farragut story (which is where Rosa got his name in the first place). If he's alive, though, I still maintain that we should see him.
GeoX
Are Hortense and Quackmore dead?
Message 15 -
2014-06-04 at 15:56:32
Quote from user: Baar Baar JinxIf he's alive, though, I still maintain that we should see him.
Maybe, but there's an inherent problem in thinking this way. Just for fun, we're positing this complex, realistic duckiverse continuity--which is fine, except that the way we do this is shaped very strongly by the extent to which writers are able to get away with including this stuff in actual, official published works, which is virtually not at all--Rosa was a special case, and even he wasn't given anything like total creative control. Publishers and writers are working entirely at cross-purposes with this kind of fandom, and as such, it seems like taking lack of evidence as evidence is pretty much a non-starter.
Maybe, but there's an inherent problem in thinking this way. Just for fun, we're positing this complex, realistic duckiverse continuity--which is fine, except that the way we do this is shaped very strongly by the extent to which writers are able to get away with including this stuff in actual, official published works, which is virtually not at all--Rosa was a special case, and even he wasn't given anything like total creative control. Publishers and writers are working entirely at cross-purposes with this kind of fandom, and as such, it seems like taking lack of evidence as evidence is pretty much a non-starter.