Keskustelujen arkisto

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Topic: Are Hortense and Quackmore dead?

(43 messages)
GeoX
...addendum: though actually, as I think about it, I'm perfectly well aware that part of the challenge and fun is working within the constraints of having almost no "official" information. Still, there's really only so much we can say if we insist on following said constraints strictly with no deviation.
Baar Baar Jinx
As regards Eider, if I remember correctly, when Gladstone introduced Fethry to American comicdom in one of their Series 2 books (I forget the exact title and story), he was introduced as "Donald's cousin from overseas" and several allusions were made to his visiting from abroad (eg., he made statements like, "What a country!"). If we were to buy into Rosa's view that Fethry is Eider's son, I suppose the absence of that entire branch of the Duck family could be explained by their having settled outside the US (and being estranged from the rest of the clan? Rosa's portrayal of Eider's personality in L&T would work well with such an idea). Maybe Fethry and Whitewater later emigrated back to the US, but Eider and his wife (Lulubelle Loon, according to Rosa) chose to stay away? More palatable than a theory adding to the death count. AFAIK, though, the entire concept of Fethry being from another country was limited to that one story.
Dutch Duckfan Down Under
Quote from user: Majestic_PicnobThe biggest evidence I see against a mass Duck family mortality? Grandma is way too happy. Grandpa is certainly deceased, but Grandma does not behave like someone who has outlived half her younger relatives. At the very least I think Uncle Eider is alive - he sent Donald his falcon, and as his sons are both grown and a supporting character and minor character respectively, it's not too strange we don't see him.
Grandpa Duck was also still alive in the early Barks stories - Donald borrows his horse in The Hard Loser, a Four Color B-story after The Mummy's Ring.

Still, I'd argue that the Duck stories take place over a number of years. We see them age emotionally, I think. From something like Three Dirty Little Ducks (that's what it's called? - the one where the nephews don't want to bathe) to say No Such Varmint, to Bubbleweight Champ. But mostly - which is where I picked it up - with Mickey Mouse. Look at the differences between Gottfredson's Mickey of 1930, 1932, 1935, 1940, 1947 and 1955, and tell me that's not a boy growing up.

Of course, that's just Barks/Gottfredson/whomever growing as a writer, but that's the Doylian explanation. I like looking for a Watsonian effect in these things, too.

So, one might propose that Grandpa Duck died somewhere between The Hard Loser and whenever we first get to Grandma's farm (in 1950?). Donald's comment about 'his horse' suggests that it's his farm, which Grandma continued after his death, and so she must've/might've hired Gus Goose when he was too infirm to handle the job. It's filling in little things like this, that I like about being a fan.
Of course, to each his own explanation.

Quote from user: GeoX...addendum: though actually, as I think about it, I'm perfectly well aware that part of the challenge and fun is working within the constraints of having almost no "official" information. Still, there's really only so much we can say if we insist on following said constraints strictly with no deviation.
I'll say it's great fun and something the Duck/Mouse fandom doesn't do enough. Well, except for Don Rosa, obviously. But then I think he went a bit too far on some aspects. I've got a different set of crazy ideas about the Duckverse, although unlike Rosa I only like to imagine them in my mind and if they were ever solidified in a story that would take away the mystery a bit.

For example, I came up with a whole different angle the whole 'HDL's parents' thing.
In the spirit of those genre stories that the comics like to do, I imagined that Donald's sister had married the Prince of some tiny Eastern-European country (hooray for endless Prisoner of Zenda ripoffs!). However, the brats were spoiled royally rotten in that environment, and since nobody dared to punish the princes they got away with all kinds of mischief. After putting a firecracker under 'their dad's chair' (= the throne), Della decides it would be better if they grew up some place normal, like normal kids. So she places them with their brother, only to reveal their true history when they're older. This being the static world of Disney comics, we will never see that comic because it will be postponed continuously as the nephews don't age.
(And if you want to get even more meta, they've been with their uncle since 1937. Della and her husband may well have been under pressure to send the kids somewhere safe since Hitler and Stalin were eyeing on Eastern Europe at that particular time.)

Though now that I see Barks' explanation, of course, it does seem like the only 'realistic' one.

Quote from user: Majestic_PicnobFrom scans-daily, I come bearing gifts. Specifically, this comment (http://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/335725.html?thread=8375405#cmt8375405) from someone who was present at an interview with Barks himself, where he was asked what became of Della. The answer, straight from the architect of the Duckverse? She had the kids too young, got fed up after a few years, dumped them off on her brother, and skipped town. Further, it seems Barks said that Della and her husband were not particularly good parents, and basically let them do whatever they wanted, which led to things like the firecracker incident - Donald is actually a much better guardian, believe it or not.

So yeah, it kinda sounds like Della's a pretty terrible person, albeit as something of a tragic consequence of starting a family too early. Is this answer official? No idea, but it's likely the best one we'll ever get.

You know when you think this through, the Ducks are a pretty messed-up family. Della supposedly had her kids too early, Donald had/has serious anger management issues - their parents must have done a pretty terrible job, too. And then there's the issue of Scrooge, who can be at times a money-obsessed freak who regularly physically assaults his closest relatives. Gladstone's got no conscience to speak of (although this is partly because of his 'gift'), and Fethry's got some undefined psychological disorder.

And what do they all have in common?

Their parents... are conspicuously absent. There's definitely something dark going on, for those mad enough to dive into this.

( ;) )
Robb_K
Quote from user: Dutch Duckfan Down UnderSo yeah, it kinda sounds like Della's a pretty terrible person, albeit as something of a tragic consequence of starting a family too early. Is this answer official? No idea, but it's likely the best one we'll ever get.
You know when you think this through, the Ducks are a pretty messed-up family. Della supposedly had her kids too early, Donald had/has serious anger management issues - their parents must have done a pretty terrible job, too. And then there's the issue of Scrooge, who can be at times a money-obsessed freak who regularly physically assaults his closest relatives. Gladstone's got no conscience to speak of (although this is partly because of his 'gift'), and Fethry's got some undefined psychological disorder.

And what do they all have in common?

Their parents... are conspicuously absent. There's definitely something dark going on, for those mad enough to dive into this.

Very interesting analysis and theory. It is clear that a psychologist/psychiatrist would have a field day observing The Duck Family!
Scroogerello
Quote from user: Dutch Duckfan Down UnderSo, one might propose that Grandpa Duck died somewhere between The Hard Loser and whenever we first get to Grandma's farm (in 1950?). Donald's comment about 'his horse' suggests that it's his farm, which Grandma continued after his death, and so she must've/might've hired Gus Goose when he was too infirm to handle the job. It's filling in little things like this, that I like about being a fan.
Of course, to each his own explanation.

Interesting! What I find weird about grandpa Duck are his sudden appearances. In the story 'This is Your Life, Donald Duck!', Grandma Duck and baby Donald can be seen living on the farm. No grandpa can be seen thoughout the entire story. However, in Donald's flashback in 'The Good Old Daze', grandpa can be seen living on the farm, together with Grandma Duck and Donald as a young kid. And whatever happened to grandpa Duck after this story is still a mystery as well...

To me, Donald's parents are still alive and just live far away from Duckburg. The fact that Donald doesn't seem to visit them a lot doesn't mean that Donald doesn't have contact with them anymore. In 'A Letter from Home', it turned out that Donald had been in contact with aunt Matilda for all these years, while the reader never got to notice it. Maybe something similar is the case with Hortense and Quackmore.
Dutch Duckfan Down Under
Quote from user: Robb_KQuote from user: Dutch Duckfan Down UnderSo yeah, it kinda sounds like Della's a pretty terrible person, albeit as something of a tragic consequence of starting a family too early. Is this answer official? No idea, but it's likely the best one we'll ever get.
You know when you think this through, the Ducks are a pretty messed-up family. Della supposedly had her kids too early, Donald had/has serious anger management issues - their parents must have done a pretty terrible job, too. And then there's the issue of Scrooge, who can be at times a money-obsessed freak who regularly physically assaults his closest relatives. Gladstone's got no conscience to speak of (although this is partly because of his 'gift'), and Fethry's got some undefined psychological disorder.

And what do they all have in common?

Their parents... are conspicuously absent. There's definitely something dark going on, for those mad enough to dive into this.

Very interesting analysis and theory. It is clear that a psychologist/psychiatrist would have a field day observing The Duck Family!

Let me just add one thing for clarity: when I say getting kids early is the result of bad parenting, that's because I get a teenage pregnancy vibe from Barks' quote.

Rosa supports this actually, in a way. I did some math when I read The Recluse of McDuck Manor (LoS12) a few years ago. Of course I am reading too much into this, but here we go.
Donald mentions that when he met Scrooge (in the preceding story), he was younger than the nephews, who are clearly young kids at the time the story is set, so there's not too much room, but we can safely say it's more than a year. The time between the two stories, we know: between 1930 and 1947 are 17 years. Had Donald been the same age, he would be 17 years older than them since he was the same age 17 years earlier. But he was younger than then, so the difference must be smaller.
Thus, Rosa establishes that the age difference between Donald and the nephews is less than 17 years, say about 15 years. He also establishes (in the previous story) that Donald and Della are twins.

Della is therefore 15 years older than her children.

Additionally, this is contrasted with the previous generation: using similar math, you'd find out that Hortense is nearing 50 when she gets Donald and Della. She's a drooling infant in 1877's The Last of the Clan McDuck, I believe Rosa puts her birth at 1876. Donald's a toddler by 1930.
One last bit of this: Hortense and Quackmore are already discussing baby names when they're only dating for six months, in the closing page of The Invader of Fort Duckburg, anno 1903. If we take that seriously, than that means that Hortense and Quackmore have at the least both already decided that they want to have children together at some point in the near future. They have at least have passed the point of fantasizing about it. Would be a stretch to imagine them wanting to have kids within five or ten years from that point?
It's tragic, then, knowing that it would take them more than twenty.
Baar Baar Jinx
Quote from user: Dutch Duckfan Down UnderRosa supports this actually, in a way.
Your calculations about Della being a teenage mom and Hortense being close to 50 when she had her children works perfectly, but only if we ignore the 1920 birthyear that Rosa has apparently given Donald and Della. 1924 or 1925 would bring everything in alignment. He also stated that HD&L were born in 1940, which still fits. Since birthyears were never explicitly provided for any character in Rosa's published works, they can be safely discounted. The only other way to make everything work would be to have Donald be a few years older than Della, but since Rosa chose to make them twins (a fact he seems to have invented himself, since I don't believe Barks or any other writer ever hinted at this possibility), we have to work with that.

Quote from user: Dutch Duckfan Down UnderHortense and Quackmore are already discussing baby names when they're only dating for six months, in the closing page of The Invader of Fort Duckburg, anno 1903. If we take that seriously, than that means that Hortense and Quackmore have at the least both already decided that they want to have children together at some point in the near future. They have at least have passed the point of fantasizing about it. Would be a stretch to imagine them wanting to have kids within five or ten years from that point?
It's tragic, then, knowing that it would take them more than twenty.

Rosa never clearly stated when Hortense and Quackmore got married, of course (they were still engaged as late as 1909 according to L&T), but yes, there seem to be undertones of infertility issues, adding to the poor Duck clan's overall woes. I guess a twin pregnancy fits well with infertility treatments.
Robb_K
Quote from user: Dutch Duckfan Down UnderDonald mentions that when he met Scrooge (in the preceding story), he was younger than the nephews, who are clearly young kids at the time the story is set, so there's not too much room, but we can safely say it's more than a year. The time between the two stories, we know: between 1930 and 1947 are 17 years. Had Donald been the same age, he would be 17 years older than them since he was the same age 17 years earlier. But he was younger than then, so the difference must be smaller.
Thus, Rosa establishes that the age difference between Donald and the nephews is less than 17 years, say about 15 years. He also establishes (in the previous story) that Donald and Della are twins.

I think it is ridiculous to assume the events in a story in a comic book occurred during the year of that comic book's issue. All this pinning down of characters' histories has caused many of my proposed characters and stories to be rejected. I have written a good story about Gladstone Gander having a long-lost twin brother, and even explained why he hasn't been around lately, and my editors told me that Gladstone can't have a brother, and he can have no family member closer than a cousin. Yet Don Rosa can get stories accepted giving all kinds of relatives to the main characters in Barks' Duck Universe.

Bah! Humbug!
Majestic_Picnob
Per Rosa's timeline Della was twenty when she had her kids. She and Don were twins, Don was born in 1920, the triplets in '40. They were three when Don first got custody and seven when they met Scrooge for the first time.
Scroogerello
Quote from user: Robb_KAll this pinning down of characters' histories has caused many of my proposed characters and stories to be rejected. I have written a good story about Gladstone Gander having a long-lost twin brother, and even explained why he hasn't been around lately, and my editors told me that Gladstone can't have a brother, and he can have no family member closer than a cousin.
Aw, that's a pity. I really like stories in which new relatives of the Ducks are introduced. Although I'm a big fan of Rosa's work, I'm a huge fan of other's versions as well, even if they 'contradict' Rosa's stories about the Duck family. I don't really understand why Gladstone 'can't have a brother'. Are the editors that attached to Rosa's theories? I think the Duckburg we know will eventually start shrinking if characters are rejected like that.
Robb_K
Quote from user: ScroogerelloI don't really understand why Gladstone 'can't have a brother'. Are the editors that attached to Rosa's theories? I think the Duckburg we know will eventually start shrinking if characters are rejected like that.
Yes, it's ridiculous that new characters needed to fill out the landscape of The Duck Family and Duckburg are rejected for such flimsy reasons. Where should a line be drawn as to when new characters cannot be used? I can understand that if they conflict with an existing Barks character or family connection, or conflict with a familial situation currently in place and used by various authors. But, just because a new character has not already been depicted on Rosas, or any other so-called "Duck Family Tree", should not preclude their being used.

Wat een schade!
Majestic_Picnob
How strange that a brother for Gladstone would be rejected, as there are some non-Barks, non-Rosa stories where he has a nephew and two nieces - Gladstone's brother could easily be their father!
Robb_K
Quote from user: Majestic_PicnobHow strange that a brother for Gladstone would be rejected, as there are some non-Barks, non-Rosa stories where he has a nephew and two nieces - Gladstone's brother could easily be their father!
They seem to want no "important" characters just appearing now, after not being around in Disney Comics all the years since they started. But an essential part of my very story explains why he has NOT been living in Duckburg, and why he has stayed away from his family. So, that would solve the editors' problems. So, I don't understand why he can't be used. If Rosa or Van Horn would have written my story, the characters WOULD have been allowed.
Dutch Duckfan Down Under
I have heard on the Dutch McDrake forum that this week's Donald Duck weekly, celebrating our fowl's eightieth birthday, contains a story which finally explains whatever happened to Della. How topical.
I haven't been able to get my hands on it, yet.
Robb_K
Quote from user: Dutch Duckfan Down UnderI have heard on the Dutch McDrake forum that this week's Donald Duck weekly, celebrating our fowl's eightieth birthday, contains a story which finally explains whatever happened to Della. How topical.

I haven't been able to get my hands on it, yet.

Good! I will make sure to read it as soon as I get the book in a few days.
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