No implication of nationalism was intended, and I apologize for the confusion.
I understand better what you're saying now, but it seems to me that this idea--that American authors can essentially rebuild the Disney brand from the ground up--is so wildly, impractically ambitious that there's little point in even thinking about it. First, you'd have to explain to me what this would even entail, from a practical standpoint, and then, even with that established, why you would expect it to cause kids to suddenly start gravitating towards the brand. I can only imagine that you would need an absolutely MASSIVE advertising campaign, and even then, if you weren't offering a product that was absolutely, seismically revolutionary in scale--much, much easier said than done--I can't see that it would work very well, given that the current sociocultural is so utterly different from the time when Disney comics really WERE king.
Sorry to sound so negative, but I have a VERY hard time seeming how this would work on any practical level.
Author
Topic: 2009 U.S. Disney Comics sales report
(106 messages)
GeoX
2009 U.S. Disney Comics sales report
Message 61 -
2010-04-15 at 00:20:24
GeoX
2009 U.S. Disney Comics sales report
Message 62 -
2010-04-15 at 04:47:33
Quote from user: KneondsTo me, Barks sounds like he was most definitely right-leaning, and likely a closet libertarian.
Pretty sure Barks self-identified as a Republican, although the heavy-handedly environmentalist Junior Woodchucks stories he scripted during the seventies would be enough for him to be pigeon-holed as a raving Marxist in today's political climate (for the record, I find that quote absolutely appalling, but this isn't the first time I've seen it before and it certainly doesn't affect my judgment of the man's work).
In any case, speaking as a committed leftist, let me say that while I would more or less agree with that assessment of Scrooge, I think you seriously underestimate his universality--and in any case, the argument seems to fall when you transfer it away from that one character in particular. And I would note that "grandiose globe-trotting adventures" and "silly aliens" were not some sort of European innovation--Barks came up with them all by himself.
It's absolutely the case that he understood the characters' personalities better than most of his successors, but I don't think this was because he was an American; I think it's because he was a genius. His nationality clearly influenced the direction of his work, but if he hadn't had the talent, it wouldn't have mattered. Rosa, likewise. Check out some issues of the Donald Duck line from the fifties, and you will find a LOT of absolutely TERRIBLE stories perpetrated by Americans.
But okay--in practice, it probably wouldn't be hard to find better talent than those fifties hacks, at any rate. In fact, we already HAVE. Look at Van Horn, for example: American. Pretty culturally conservative, if his work paints any accurate picture of him. I'm a fan--but do you think that he does a better job with the ducks than, say, Marco Rota? I sure don't. And yet, he's a talented writer/artist. What do you think the odds are of finding any substantial number of American creators who are BETTER than him, which is what you would have to do if your plan for the line were to have any chance succeeding?
Back on topic, though (actually, I'm not even quite sure what the topic IS anymore--but onward!), I really really REALLY have to dispute the notion that it would be possible to achieve new-found glory for the line by featuring Scrooge in more burlesques of American capitalism, or whatever it is that you're specifically suggesting. I'm not saying children are dumb, necessarily, but *I* sure as hell didn't appreciate the subtexts of these stories when I read them as a young lad, and I cannot even remotely picture kids today saying (or even just unconsciously thinking) "oh boy! A pointed satire of the American Dream! Sign me up!"
Dammit, I didn't mean for that to get so long. It just kinda happened. I apologize for rambling, and I apologize if my tone seems overly hectoring. It certainly was not my intention. I sometimes get a bit carried away with internet arguments.
Pretty sure Barks self-identified as a Republican, although the heavy-handedly environmentalist Junior Woodchucks stories he scripted during the seventies would be enough for him to be pigeon-holed as a raving Marxist in today's political climate (for the record, I find that quote absolutely appalling, but this isn't the first time I've seen it before and it certainly doesn't affect my judgment of the man's work).
In any case, speaking as a committed leftist, let me say that while I would more or less agree with that assessment of Scrooge, I think you seriously underestimate his universality--and in any case, the argument seems to fall when you transfer it away from that one character in particular. And I would note that "grandiose globe-trotting adventures" and "silly aliens" were not some sort of European innovation--Barks came up with them all by himself.
It's absolutely the case that he understood the characters' personalities better than most of his successors, but I don't think this was because he was an American; I think it's because he was a genius. His nationality clearly influenced the direction of his work, but if he hadn't had the talent, it wouldn't have mattered. Rosa, likewise. Check out some issues of the Donald Duck line from the fifties, and you will find a LOT of absolutely TERRIBLE stories perpetrated by Americans.
But okay--in practice, it probably wouldn't be hard to find better talent than those fifties hacks, at any rate. In fact, we already HAVE. Look at Van Horn, for example: American. Pretty culturally conservative, if his work paints any accurate picture of him. I'm a fan--but do you think that he does a better job with the ducks than, say, Marco Rota? I sure don't. And yet, he's a talented writer/artist. What do you think the odds are of finding any substantial number of American creators who are BETTER than him, which is what you would have to do if your plan for the line were to have any chance succeeding?
Back on topic, though (actually, I'm not even quite sure what the topic IS anymore--but onward!), I really really REALLY have to dispute the notion that it would be possible to achieve new-found glory for the line by featuring Scrooge in more burlesques of American capitalism, or whatever it is that you're specifically suggesting. I'm not saying children are dumb, necessarily, but *I* sure as hell didn't appreciate the subtexts of these stories when I read them as a young lad, and I cannot even remotely picture kids today saying (or even just unconsciously thinking) "oh boy! A pointed satire of the American Dream! Sign me up!"
Dammit, I didn't mean for that to get so long. It just kinda happened. I apologize for rambling, and I apologize if my tone seems overly hectoring. It certainly was not my intention. I sometimes get a bit carried away with internet arguments.
Kneon
2009 U.S. Disney Comics sales report
Message 63 -
2010-04-15 at 05:46:59
;) Just thinking out loud, here.
And I didn't know we WERE arguing...? (Were we?)
Quote:I'm not saying children are dumb, necessarily, but *I* sure as hell didn't appreciate the subtexts of these stories when I read them as a young lad, and I cannot even remotely picture kids today saying (or even just unconsciously thinking) "oh boy! A pointed satire of the American Dream! Sign me up!"
Ha... OK, you've got me there. I guess the point I was trying to make (and failing miserably at?) was that Barks' stories were very much grounded in 1950s America and his readers could relate. My thinking here being if you could bottle that lightning twice, and try to update the ducks for today's audience (young and old), there's a possibility of making these characters more accessible to today's audience than they are now -- as what's being published in America now is either decades old stories, or foreign stories (that sometimes hit the mark with Americans and... sometimes just don't.)
Lots of popular kids TV shows have some really biting satire that goes over many kids' heads, but many of those shows also have a lot of adult fans as well. With classic characters such as these, you'd almost have to write 'em on several levels to be successful.
But again, bottling that lightning would require having some lightning in the form of great talent... and, well.. lightning seldom strikes twice, so... ;)
Quote:Look at Van Horn, for example: American. Pretty culturally conservative, if his work paints any accurate picture of him. I'm a fan--but do you think that he does a better job with the ducks than, say, Marco Rota? I sure don't. And yet, he's a talented writer/artist. What do you think the odds are of finding any substantial number of American creators who are BETTER than him, which is what you would have to do if your plan for the line were to have any chance succeeding?
Rota's work is very impressive. And you bring up another point -- how many American creators are out there who are actually up to the task -- or who would even want to do it? I think I mentioned in a previous thread that I doubt we'll see an American successor to Rosa or Van Horn any time soon. Partly because the duck books just aren't that popular here in the States, and partly because the ducks didn't leave the lasting impression on the American youth of the 70s and 80s like the did kids of the 50s.
This is all hypothetical, as Disney books just aren't selling like gangbusters in America and the chances of ANY publisher dumping buckets of money into such a massive undertaking is very unlikely.
ANYWAY... yeah... on topic... ummmm... anybody wanna take bets on next month's sales figures? ;)
And I didn't know we WERE arguing...? (Were we?)
Quote:I'm not saying children are dumb, necessarily, but *I* sure as hell didn't appreciate the subtexts of these stories when I read them as a young lad, and I cannot even remotely picture kids today saying (or even just unconsciously thinking) "oh boy! A pointed satire of the American Dream! Sign me up!"
Ha... OK, you've got me there. I guess the point I was trying to make (and failing miserably at?) was that Barks' stories were very much grounded in 1950s America and his readers could relate. My thinking here being if you could bottle that lightning twice, and try to update the ducks for today's audience (young and old), there's a possibility of making these characters more accessible to today's audience than they are now -- as what's being published in America now is either decades old stories, or foreign stories (that sometimes hit the mark with Americans and... sometimes just don't.)
Lots of popular kids TV shows have some really biting satire that goes over many kids' heads, but many of those shows also have a lot of adult fans as well. With classic characters such as these, you'd almost have to write 'em on several levels to be successful.
But again, bottling that lightning would require having some lightning in the form of great talent... and, well.. lightning seldom strikes twice, so... ;)
Quote:Look at Van Horn, for example: American. Pretty culturally conservative, if his work paints any accurate picture of him. I'm a fan--but do you think that he does a better job with the ducks than, say, Marco Rota? I sure don't. And yet, he's a talented writer/artist. What do you think the odds are of finding any substantial number of American creators who are BETTER than him, which is what you would have to do if your plan for the line were to have any chance succeeding?
Rota's work is very impressive. And you bring up another point -- how many American creators are out there who are actually up to the task -- or who would even want to do it? I think I mentioned in a previous thread that I doubt we'll see an American successor to Rosa or Van Horn any time soon. Partly because the duck books just aren't that popular here in the States, and partly because the ducks didn't leave the lasting impression on the American youth of the 70s and 80s like the did kids of the 50s.
This is all hypothetical, as Disney books just aren't selling like gangbusters in America and the chances of ANY publisher dumping buckets of money into such a massive undertaking is very unlikely.
ANYWAY... yeah... on topic... ummmm... anybody wanna take bets on next month's sales figures? ;)
GeoX
2009 U.S. Disney Comics sales report
Message 64 -
2010-04-15 at 06:17:39
Okay, "argue" is probably an overstatement :P Anyway, you're quite possibly right, for various intangible reasons, that an American visionary would have the best chance at rekindling the spark, if Rosa is any indication...but then again, in addition to the problem of general INTEREST, the fact remains that while Rosa might have single-handedly revitalized the line for a while, the impression I get is that he did so by working himself half to death for very little compensation. Good luck selling that as a lifestyle choice to potential future creators. I think before anything else, publishers--here, Europe, EVERYWHERE--would have to seriously rethink their entire business model regarding royalties and compensation in general. Not gonna happen, but if it did, I think there would be a much better chance of a new Renaissance.
Kneon
2009 U.S. Disney Comics sales report
Message 65 -
2010-04-15 at 12:23:50
Money makes the world go 'round. Scrooge knows that better than most. ;)
Duck books don't sell all that well over here, so as you said, the page rate for any American duck creator would no doubt be *significantly* less than anything Marvel or DC would offer them. If you're a talented creator with bills to pay and a family to feed, where are you going to go?
Again, I wasn't trying to wave the flag *too* hard in the faces of our international friends, or belittle the excellent stories some Europeans have given us. I was just trying to point out that it might take some stories written from a uniquely American cultural perspective to make those stories relevant again to an American audience, as Travis Seitler was saying earlier. I was using Scrooge as an extreme example because he's so very, very American in origin and a lot could be done to make him more relatable.
(It also saddens me that these characters originated in America, but after Rosa and Van Horn, we have no one left to take up the mantle. Hardly seems fair given the pedigree. *sigh*)
Duck books don't sell all that well over here, so as you said, the page rate for any American duck creator would no doubt be *significantly* less than anything Marvel or DC would offer them. If you're a talented creator with bills to pay and a family to feed, where are you going to go?
Again, I wasn't trying to wave the flag *too* hard in the faces of our international friends, or belittle the excellent stories some Europeans have given us. I was just trying to point out that it might take some stories written from a uniquely American cultural perspective to make those stories relevant again to an American audience, as Travis Seitler was saying earlier. I was using Scrooge as an extreme example because he's so very, very American in origin and a lot could be done to make him more relatable.
(It also saddens me that these characters originated in America, but after Rosa and Van Horn, we have no one left to take up the mantle. Hardly seems fair given the pedigree. *sigh*)
Rodney
2009 U.S. Disney Comics sales report
Message 66 -
2010-04-15 at 12:54:32
While I agree with a preference for stories told from an American perspective, there is a line that should not be crossed.
The notion of a story where Scrooge spends 10 pages thwarting Donald's universal healthcare plan, or squashes the Junior Woodchucks' blocking of off-shore drilling sound about as appetizing to me as a root canal.
There is enough thinly disguised political preaching on BOTH sides of the spectrum (Wall-E, anyone?) to go around. I'll take my Donald Duck funnybooks without it, thankyouverymuch.
The notion of a story where Scrooge spends 10 pages thwarting Donald's universal healthcare plan, or squashes the Junior Woodchucks' blocking of off-shore drilling sound about as appetizing to me as a root canal.
There is enough thinly disguised political preaching on BOTH sides of the spectrum (Wall-E, anyone?) to go around. I'll take my Donald Duck funnybooks without it, thankyouverymuch.
Kneon
2009 U.S. Disney Comics sales report
Message 67 -
2010-04-15 at 13:35:13
Quote from user: rodneyThe notion of a story where Scrooge spends 10 pages thwarting Donald's universal healthcare plan, or squashes the Junior Woodchucks' blocking of off-shore drilling sound about as appetizing to me as a root canal.
HA! I wasn't talking about anything *that* extreme, but gosh... that could be comedy gold. ;)
(Geez, the Wall-E DVD even came in a recycled paper case. My kids destroyed it in about a day!)
HA! I wasn't talking about anything *that* extreme, but gosh... that could be comedy gold. ;)
(Geez, the Wall-E DVD even came in a recycled paper case. My kids destroyed it in about a day!)
Lars Jensen
2009 U.S. Disney Comics sales report
Message 68 -
2010-04-15 at 14:56:38
Quote from user: KneonGolly, when did it become a bad thing to look at things from an American perspective when we're talking about comics characters created in America? Barks, Rosa and Gottfredson. Check, check and check... all Americans writing stories from an American perspective last I heard. ;).
Don Rosa is half Italian, I believe. Floyd Gottfredson had Danish roots.
Quote from user: KneonWith no offense intended toward our international friends, I think part of the problem is that you've got people who hail from predominately socialist countries writing stories
Kneon, for the last few decades most writers of Disney comics have come from Italy, the Netherlands, France, Brazil, England or the US. I wouldn't exactly call either of these countries socialist.
Quote from user: KneonTo me, Barks sounds like he was most definitely right-leaning, and likely a closet libertarian. ;)
From what I've heard Carl Barks was a proud Republican. I'm not sure he was a party member, though.
Quote from user: KneonPoint is... Scrooge McDuck is a thoroughly American character. And to appeal to American audiences once again, I think ol' Scrooge would almost have to be handed over to American creators
You mean, like Dave Rawson, Pat & Carol McGreal, William Van Horn, Stefan Petrucha, Sarah Kinney, Pat and Shelly Block, Don Rosa, Mark & Laura Shaw, Doug Gray, John Lustig, Byron Erickson, Terry LaBan, Jeff Hamill and David Gerstein?
There's a publisher who has employed every single creator on that list, you know...
Don Rosa is half Italian, I believe. Floyd Gottfredson had Danish roots.
Quote from user: KneonWith no offense intended toward our international friends, I think part of the problem is that you've got people who hail from predominately socialist countries writing stories
Kneon, for the last few decades most writers of Disney comics have come from Italy, the Netherlands, France, Brazil, England or the US. I wouldn't exactly call either of these countries socialist.
Quote from user: KneonTo me, Barks sounds like he was most definitely right-leaning, and likely a closet libertarian. ;)
From what I've heard Carl Barks was a proud Republican. I'm not sure he was a party member, though.
Quote from user: KneonPoint is... Scrooge McDuck is a thoroughly American character. And to appeal to American audiences once again, I think ol' Scrooge would almost have to be handed over to American creators
You mean, like Dave Rawson, Pat & Carol McGreal, William Van Horn, Stefan Petrucha, Sarah Kinney, Pat and Shelly Block, Don Rosa, Mark & Laura Shaw, Doug Gray, John Lustig, Byron Erickson, Terry LaBan, Jeff Hamill and David Gerstein?
There's a publisher who has employed every single creator on that list, you know...
Rodney
2009 U.S. Disney Comics sales report
Message 69 -
2010-04-15 at 15:01:12
But, of course, the point that is missed whenever these types of discussions come up is, that even though Don Rosa (for example) is half-Italian, because he spent his life in America, his stories are written from an American perspective. Not a "half-Italian perspective".
And sorry, Lars, but from a current American perspective, ALL of those countries are deemed "socialist". It's all part of a climate that you could enver begin to understand unless you lived here.
I do have to wonder though, does the way you write stories change when you realize they will mostly only be read by people in a different part of the world from you? Do you stop writing from your perspective, with your experiences and alter your stories to suit the reader?
And sorry, Lars, but from a current American perspective, ALL of those countries are deemed "socialist". It's all part of a climate that you could enver begin to understand unless you lived here.
I do have to wonder though, does the way you write stories change when you realize they will mostly only be read by people in a different part of the world from you? Do you stop writing from your perspective, with your experiences and alter your stories to suit the reader?
Kneon
2009 U.S. Disney Comics sales report
Message 70 -
2010-04-15 at 15:39:34
http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2009/7/23/128928519067955637.jpg
ANYWAY... back to sales...
Here are some CBG numbers for the Boom books if anyone is interested in comparing those figures with ICv2's numbers:
http://www.comicbookpage.com/SalesEstimates/CBGTitles.php?Publisher=Boom
ANYWAY... back to sales...
Here are some CBG numbers for the Boom books if anyone is interested in comparing those figures with ICv2's numbers:
http://www.comicbookpage.com/SalesEstimates/CBGTitles.php?Publisher=Boom
Lars Jensen
2009 U.S. Disney Comics sales report
Message 71 -
2010-04-16 at 14:11:07
Sorry to go off-topic once again, Kneon, but I thought I should respond to this...
Quote from user: rodneyBut, of course, the point that is missed whenever these types of discussions come up is, that even though Don Rosa (for example) is half-Italian, because he spent his life in America, his stories are written from an American perspective. Not a "half-Italian perspective".
That's correct, of course. But Kneon specifically mentioned "Americans writing stories from an American perspective" about American characters. Don Rosa might have an "American perspective", but does he qualify as a "real" American when he's half-Italian? Another example: One of the greatest American icons is Superman. Yet, he was co-created and worked on for years by Joe Shuster from Canada. Superman's other co-creator was Jerry Siegel whose parents were Lithuanian immigrants. Recently, the critically acclaimed Superman book "All-Star Superman" was written by Grant Morrison and drawn by Frank Quitely, both from Scotland.
My point is that you don't need Americans to create stories from an American perspective about American characters. Half-Italians (or full-Scotsmen) can do that as well.
Quote from user: rodneyAnd sorry, Lars, but from a current American perspective, ALL of those countries are deemed "socialist". It's all part of a climate that you could enver begin to understand unless you lived here.
Oh, I realize some Americans think of certain countries as "socialist". I just hope you know this notion is nonsensical. For instance, most of this decade Denmark has had a right-wing government that supported (and continues to support) the US in its invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq. As far as I know, our former prime minister considers George W. Bush a friend. Denmark's richest person is a multi-billionaire who has supported the American Republican party financially, as well as the US logistically during wars.
Quote from user: KneonQuote from user: Lars JensenKneon, for the last few decades most writers of Disney comics have come from Italy, the Netherlands, France, Brazil, England or the US. I wouldn't exactly call either of these countries socialist.
I was thinking more about Egmont... Denmark is considered socially democratic, is it not? Save for maybe England (well no, not really), all those countries do lean more to the left than America, so maybe I ought have said "left-leaning"...?
Denmark has a welfare system that, to varying degrees, is supported by both the left-wing and the right-wing parties. I wouldn't call Denmark "social democratic", though. In the 1980s, we had a right-wing government that saw Ronald Reagan as a shining beacon of hope. In the 1990s, we had a Social democratic-led government that looooved Bill Clinton. And in this decade, we've had a right-wing government that thought George W. Bush was The Man. That doesn't really fit my definition of a "socialist" country.
Fact is, most countries will swing back and forth between left and right. Doesn't make them socialist, doesn't make them right-wing.
And even if Denmark was a socialist paradise, it wouldn't have influenced the Disney comics. The editors at Egmont don't write the stories -- the writers do! And, as I said, many Egmont writers are from the US.
Quote from user: KneonQuote from user: Lars JensenYou mean, like Dave Rawson, Pat & Carol McGreal, William Van Horn, Stefan Petrucha, Sarah Kinney, Pat and Shelly Block, Don Rosa, Mark & Laura Shaw, Doug Gray, John Lustig, Byron Erickson, Terry LaBan, Jeff Hamill and David Gerstein?
There's a publisher who has employed every single creator on that list, you know...
Yes, yes there was... but they no longer are. :-/
(EDIT: I was talking about Gemstone, but you're probably talking about Egmont, right? Not much of a chance of us Americans seeing a lot from Egmont these days without Gemstone, it seems.)
Apart from Van Horn and Pat Block, Gemstone didn't employ any of those creators. Instead, Gemstone reprinted stories those creators had done for... Egmont!
Quote from user: rodneyI do have to wonder though, does the way you write stories change when you realize they will mostly only be read by people in a different part of the world from you? Do you stop writing from your perspective, with your experiences and alter your stories to suit the reader?
I haven't discussed this with anyone else, so I can only speak for myself...
My stories are printed in "Egmontland", consisting of Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Germany, Poland, Russia, China, possibly India... and I'm sure there are more countries. And then other publishers in Finland, France, Italy, Brazil, the US etc. also pick up those stories.
There's no way I can target my stories towards all of those cultures. So no, I don't really change the content of what I write. Most of my stories are (hopefully) clearly Lars Jensen stories, based on my taste and my opinions. If I think something deserves commenting upon, then there's a chance I'll comment upon it, in one way or another. The trick is to make the stories understandable for an international readership. There's no point in making a sarcastic comment on Thor Pedersen or Ole Sohn, when no one in Bulgaria knows who they are. If I wrote stories for Denmark only, then, yes, I could write a story that, say, makes fun of a specific Danish entertainer or politician. But I wouldn't want to do that, anyway -- that makes the mockery too personal. Instead I would make my parody more general; not about the person himself, but about the qualities (or lack thereof) the person embodies. And that's what I do in my Egmont stories.
I hope that answered your question.
Quote from user: rodneyBut, of course, the point that is missed whenever these types of discussions come up is, that even though Don Rosa (for example) is half-Italian, because he spent his life in America, his stories are written from an American perspective. Not a "half-Italian perspective".
That's correct, of course. But Kneon specifically mentioned "Americans writing stories from an American perspective" about American characters. Don Rosa might have an "American perspective", but does he qualify as a "real" American when he's half-Italian? Another example: One of the greatest American icons is Superman. Yet, he was co-created and worked on for years by Joe Shuster from Canada. Superman's other co-creator was Jerry Siegel whose parents were Lithuanian immigrants. Recently, the critically acclaimed Superman book "All-Star Superman" was written by Grant Morrison and drawn by Frank Quitely, both from Scotland.
My point is that you don't need Americans to create stories from an American perspective about American characters. Half-Italians (or full-Scotsmen) can do that as well.
Quote from user: rodneyAnd sorry, Lars, but from a current American perspective, ALL of those countries are deemed "socialist". It's all part of a climate that you could enver begin to understand unless you lived here.
Oh, I realize some Americans think of certain countries as "socialist". I just hope you know this notion is nonsensical. For instance, most of this decade Denmark has had a right-wing government that supported (and continues to support) the US in its invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq. As far as I know, our former prime minister considers George W. Bush a friend. Denmark's richest person is a multi-billionaire who has supported the American Republican party financially, as well as the US logistically during wars.
Quote from user: KneonQuote from user: Lars JensenKneon, for the last few decades most writers of Disney comics have come from Italy, the Netherlands, France, Brazil, England or the US. I wouldn't exactly call either of these countries socialist.
I was thinking more about Egmont... Denmark is considered socially democratic, is it not? Save for maybe England (well no, not really), all those countries do lean more to the left than America, so maybe I ought have said "left-leaning"...?
Denmark has a welfare system that, to varying degrees, is supported by both the left-wing and the right-wing parties. I wouldn't call Denmark "social democratic", though. In the 1980s, we had a right-wing government that saw Ronald Reagan as a shining beacon of hope. In the 1990s, we had a Social democratic-led government that looooved Bill Clinton. And in this decade, we've had a right-wing government that thought George W. Bush was The Man. That doesn't really fit my definition of a "socialist" country.
Fact is, most countries will swing back and forth between left and right. Doesn't make them socialist, doesn't make them right-wing.
And even if Denmark was a socialist paradise, it wouldn't have influenced the Disney comics. The editors at Egmont don't write the stories -- the writers do! And, as I said, many Egmont writers are from the US.
Quote from user: KneonQuote from user: Lars JensenYou mean, like Dave Rawson, Pat & Carol McGreal, William Van Horn, Stefan Petrucha, Sarah Kinney, Pat and Shelly Block, Don Rosa, Mark & Laura Shaw, Doug Gray, John Lustig, Byron Erickson, Terry LaBan, Jeff Hamill and David Gerstein?
There's a publisher who has employed every single creator on that list, you know...
Yes, yes there was... but they no longer are. :-/
(EDIT: I was talking about Gemstone, but you're probably talking about Egmont, right? Not much of a chance of us Americans seeing a lot from Egmont these days without Gemstone, it seems.)
Apart from Van Horn and Pat Block, Gemstone didn't employ any of those creators. Instead, Gemstone reprinted stories those creators had done for... Egmont!
Quote from user: rodneyI do have to wonder though, does the way you write stories change when you realize they will mostly only be read by people in a different part of the world from you? Do you stop writing from your perspective, with your experiences and alter your stories to suit the reader?
I haven't discussed this with anyone else, so I can only speak for myself...
My stories are printed in "Egmontland", consisting of Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Germany, Poland, Russia, China, possibly India... and I'm sure there are more countries. And then other publishers in Finland, France, Italy, Brazil, the US etc. also pick up those stories.
There's no way I can target my stories towards all of those cultures. So no, I don't really change the content of what I write. Most of my stories are (hopefully) clearly Lars Jensen stories, based on my taste and my opinions. If I think something deserves commenting upon, then there's a chance I'll comment upon it, in one way or another. The trick is to make the stories understandable for an international readership. There's no point in making a sarcastic comment on Thor Pedersen or Ole Sohn, when no one in Bulgaria knows who they are. If I wrote stories for Denmark only, then, yes, I could write a story that, say, makes fun of a specific Danish entertainer or politician. But I wouldn't want to do that, anyway -- that makes the mockery too personal. Instead I would make my parody more general; not about the person himself, but about the qualities (or lack thereof) the person embodies. And that's what I do in my Egmont stories.
I hope that answered your question.
Kneon
2009 U.S. Disney Comics sales report
Message 72 -
2010-04-16 at 15:01:39
Thanks for taking the time to answer, Lars.
I was using Scrooge as an *extreme* example of where some firsthand insight into American ecomonics and politics might be useful, and things went off the rails into some political rant. I do apologize for my part.
The point of all of this being that American creators may be more adept at writing comics for an American audience, and while Egmont employs some American creators, I was wondering out loud whether or not those folks were writing for their audience (Europeans) vs. writing stories with the foreknowledge that they may see American shores... some year.
What I was trying to say (and what I'm presuming Travis Seitler was also meaning) was that Disney comics may sell better in the U.S. if they were being written specifically for this market by the best creators that American comics has to offer. Some Egmont people, sure, but there are a ridiculous number of talented American creators who would probably jump at the chance to draw a fresh Mickey or Scrooge story if the opportunity presented itself.
A *huge* part of the equation is finding the *right* people to do just that, of course. And my intention wasn't to say that Europeans were inferior writers or artists or any such thing, just pointing out the cultural differences. Nor was it to say that any American could outwrite any European or Italian.
(And you are right about some Europeans cracking the American comic market -- maybe my brush stroke was too broad here. One of the biggest names in all of comicdom is Alan Moore. I don't know if I'd want to see Moore take on a Donald story, but it sure would sell just for the curiosity of such a thing! By and large, however, the American comics scene is made up of American creators.)
It was just that if we're talking about creating Disney comics specifically for the U.S. market, it may be time to pull out the "big guns" -- put top U.S. talent on these books and take them in a wildly different direction than what is being done in Europe or Italy. Because frankly? Trying to simply take what works overseas and market it over here is just not working. We've seen this time and time again, and Boom's numbers are falling faster and harder than Gemstone's.
I certainly don't think there's anything wrong with the characters -- I think it's the format. It's not finding an audience here other than the Disney comics hardcore. And from my estimates, there are only about 4,000 of those folks to be found in the direct market -- regardless of who publishes the material.
Again, not trying to belittle what's being done in Europe or Italy. It's obviously working for you guys, because the sales numbers speak for themselves. It's just not the case here, and it may be time to try something new if standard character comics are going to have any kind of future in the U.S.
As to politics in Denmark? You're right -- I'm absolutely clueless. So I'm definitely not the guy to draw any kind of story about life in Denmark. ;)
Again, I'd like to stress that I appreciate the discourse and feedback, Lars, even if I don't see eye to eye with you on everything. Things are just dandy at Egmont... it's just not the case here in America. And I don't want to see us lose the standard character books again. It may take some radical thinking on either Boom's part, or the part of whoever nabs the license after Boom to really start some kind of an American Disney comics "renaissance."
And I'd like to stress to the Boom crew who no doubt frequents this forum that I'm not trying to slam away on you guys, either. I wanna see these books sell just as much as you do. We're talking about the most popular cartoon characters in the world. They can -- and should be -- at the top of pile once again like they were in the 50s and 60s.
Someone's just gotta figure out that elusive secret formula. :-/
All the best.
I was using Scrooge as an *extreme* example of where some firsthand insight into American ecomonics and politics might be useful, and things went off the rails into some political rant. I do apologize for my part.
The point of all of this being that American creators may be more adept at writing comics for an American audience, and while Egmont employs some American creators, I was wondering out loud whether or not those folks were writing for their audience (Europeans) vs. writing stories with the foreknowledge that they may see American shores... some year.
What I was trying to say (and what I'm presuming Travis Seitler was also meaning) was that Disney comics may sell better in the U.S. if they were being written specifically for this market by the best creators that American comics has to offer. Some Egmont people, sure, but there are a ridiculous number of talented American creators who would probably jump at the chance to draw a fresh Mickey or Scrooge story if the opportunity presented itself.
A *huge* part of the equation is finding the *right* people to do just that, of course. And my intention wasn't to say that Europeans were inferior writers or artists or any such thing, just pointing out the cultural differences. Nor was it to say that any American could outwrite any European or Italian.
(And you are right about some Europeans cracking the American comic market -- maybe my brush stroke was too broad here. One of the biggest names in all of comicdom is Alan Moore. I don't know if I'd want to see Moore take on a Donald story, but it sure would sell just for the curiosity of such a thing! By and large, however, the American comics scene is made up of American creators.)
It was just that if we're talking about creating Disney comics specifically for the U.S. market, it may be time to pull out the "big guns" -- put top U.S. talent on these books and take them in a wildly different direction than what is being done in Europe or Italy. Because frankly? Trying to simply take what works overseas and market it over here is just not working. We've seen this time and time again, and Boom's numbers are falling faster and harder than Gemstone's.
I certainly don't think there's anything wrong with the characters -- I think it's the format. It's not finding an audience here other than the Disney comics hardcore. And from my estimates, there are only about 4,000 of those folks to be found in the direct market -- regardless of who publishes the material.
Again, not trying to belittle what's being done in Europe or Italy. It's obviously working for you guys, because the sales numbers speak for themselves. It's just not the case here, and it may be time to try something new if standard character comics are going to have any kind of future in the U.S.
As to politics in Denmark? You're right -- I'm absolutely clueless. So I'm definitely not the guy to draw any kind of story about life in Denmark. ;)
Again, I'd like to stress that I appreciate the discourse and feedback, Lars, even if I don't see eye to eye with you on everything. Things are just dandy at Egmont... it's just not the case here in America. And I don't want to see us lose the standard character books again. It may take some radical thinking on either Boom's part, or the part of whoever nabs the license after Boom to really start some kind of an American Disney comics "renaissance."
And I'd like to stress to the Boom crew who no doubt frequents this forum that I'm not trying to slam away on you guys, either. I wanna see these books sell just as much as you do. We're talking about the most popular cartoon characters in the world. They can -- and should be -- at the top of pile once again like they were in the 50s and 60s.
Someone's just gotta figure out that elusive secret formula. :-/
All the best.
GeoX
2009 U.S. Disney Comics sales report
Message 73 -
2010-04-16 at 15:53:08
Quote from user: KneonOne of the biggest names in all of comicdom is Alan Moore. I don't know if I'd want to see Moore take on a Donald story, but it sure would sell just for the curiosity of such a thing!
I think my brain just melted.
I think my brain just melted.
GeoX
2009 U.S. Disney Comics sales report
Message 74 -
2010-04-16 at 17:22:30
...although actually, when I was in Dayton, I asked Rosa what his fantasy "ending" for Scrooge would have looked like, given total creative license, and he said it would have been very much like Moore's "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?" So there's that.
Arthur
2009 U.S. Disney Comics sales report
Message 75 -
2010-04-16 at 17:32:26
I think that BOOM! should keep these multi-part stories like Ultraheroes and Double Duck out of the monthly comics. If you're a parent picking up a new comic for your child would you buy a copy of Donald Duck & Friends that has chapter 7 of this huge saga? No wonder the numbers are dropping, because only people who have been following these stories from the beginning, and are still interested, are buying them. If someone doesn't like the first chapter they're not going to buy the series for multiple issues until the story has finally ended. If that's 6 months or a year later they may have completely forgotten about the series.
What bothers me most with the current model is the way that chapters are cut off awkwardly in the middle. If an issue has 6 pages left at the end of a chapter I think they should just fill it up with a 6-page story. Then a buyer will have the feeling that their $2.99 got them at least one complete story. It looks like they're doing it right with The World to Come in WDC&S, but why then fill the extra pages with the 16-page Peg Leg Pete story (which by itself is quite bizarre) and cut that up in little pieces?
I like Double Duck and Casty's work in WDC&S, but a lot of the other stories don't interest me because I've seen so much better. I have the feeling that BOOM! is trying to appeal to a younger audience by not printing the types of stories that Gemstone was doing (Barks, Rosa and the best of Egmont), but those are exactly the type of stories that they SHOULD be putting in the monthly comics. They are the best of the best and today's kids haven't seen them yet! It's not like they were written for adults. Kids in other countries still love these stories, so why is it better to serve American kids mediocre stuff like Wizards of Mickey when you have hundreds of Barks stories to choose from that they have never seen before?
I believe that the comics just need to be marketed differently. If you look at all the popular Disney weeklies and monthlies in Europe and the rest of the world that sell millions, none of them are filled exclusively with comic pages. They have editorials about movies, music, activities like puzzles, mystery games with Mickey, letters sent in by kids, etc. And between these editorials are a variety of classic and new comic stories. Sorta like Disney Adventures, but then in comic format and with better stories. I'm not saying to put the Jonas Brothers on the cover of WDC&S, but the monthlies could be made a lot more interesting for kids by adding some editorials targeted at them.
What bothers me most with the current model is the way that chapters are cut off awkwardly in the middle. If an issue has 6 pages left at the end of a chapter I think they should just fill it up with a 6-page story. Then a buyer will have the feeling that their $2.99 got them at least one complete story. It looks like they're doing it right with The World to Come in WDC&S, but why then fill the extra pages with the 16-page Peg Leg Pete story (which by itself is quite bizarre) and cut that up in little pieces?
I like Double Duck and Casty's work in WDC&S, but a lot of the other stories don't interest me because I've seen so much better. I have the feeling that BOOM! is trying to appeal to a younger audience by not printing the types of stories that Gemstone was doing (Barks, Rosa and the best of Egmont), but those are exactly the type of stories that they SHOULD be putting in the monthly comics. They are the best of the best and today's kids haven't seen them yet! It's not like they were written for adults. Kids in other countries still love these stories, so why is it better to serve American kids mediocre stuff like Wizards of Mickey when you have hundreds of Barks stories to choose from that they have never seen before?
I believe that the comics just need to be marketed differently. If you look at all the popular Disney weeklies and monthlies in Europe and the rest of the world that sell millions, none of them are filled exclusively with comic pages. They have editorials about movies, music, activities like puzzles, mystery games with Mickey, letters sent in by kids, etc. And between these editorials are a variety of classic and new comic stories. Sorta like Disney Adventures, but then in comic format and with better stories. I'm not saying to put the Jonas Brothers on the cover of WDC&S, but the monthlies could be made a lot more interesting for kids by adding some editorials targeted at them.