Keskustelujen arkisto

Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 8:34 PM
Subject: Sherlock Holmes?

> I have now completed the foreword on Shakespeare in Disney comics (thanks
> for all the help) and have started the next one, which will be about
> Arthur Conan Doyle and Sherlock Holmes. I have located the comics with
> Basil The Mouse Detective and The Sleuth and I am now looking for more
> obscure parodies, satires, references etc. If anyone can help me with
> suggestions, I would be most grateful.
Fredrik Str?mberg

Elementary, my dear Watson! :-)

Peter Kylling offers a list of some Barks detective stories at his website:
http://cbarks.dk/thedetectivestories.htm . In some of them HD&L wears the
characteristic Sherlock Holmes hats.
- And, off course we must not forget Shamrock Bones...an obvious parody of
Holmes, with the same hat and pipe, but not quite the same wit as Holmes...
http://shorterlink.com/?YKL71N

PS: I'm curious: What are you writing forewords for?

/ole

Hello,

It is NOT sold until now;
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6557206885

Its "only" signed; "C. BARKS" and below is written "Idea Sketch", so
this is one of the (smaller than the finished official "The Stone that
Turns All Metals Gold" oil painting") idea-sketches.... On the official
finished oil paintings, the signature is always "CARL BARKS", and on the
back is a unique numbering of each painting.

The value for the one in auction is around $15000-$18000. Why the seller
set the price at $125k, I dont know ??

My best,
Alex Nielsen

www.carlbarks.ws
www.carlbarks.biz - Carl Barks items for sale (I have much more than the
FEW things listed there !)....

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: Victor [mailto:victor1717 at gmail.com]
Sendt: 31. august 2005 13:23
Til: dcml at stp.lingfil.uu.se
Emne: The Stone that Turns All Metals Gold

Hi!
I saw that an original oilpainting by Barks (The Stone that Turns All
Metals Gold), were sold on ebay for 125 000 Usdollar. Is it really worth
so much? I mean, that is what it cost to buy a little house!

Hi !

Does anyone on this list know if there is any difference between the Hardcover and Softcover edition of Mickey and the gang Good Housekeeping reprint ?

Ola in sunny Stockholm +20 and clear blue sky

-----Original Message-----
From: dcml-bounces at stp.lingfil.uu.se
[mailto:dcml-bounces at stp.lingfil.uu.se]On Behalf Of
dcml-request at stp.lingfil.uu.se
Sent: den 1 september 2005 11:27
To: dcml at stp.lingfil.uu.se
Subject: DCML Digest, Vol 31, Issue 1

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Today's Topics:

1. RE: HD&L VS The Love (Halsten Aastebol)
2. Of love, childhod, and... ducks (Santiago Garc?a)
3. The Stone that Turns All Metals Gold (Victor)
4. Turning Red Alert To Yellow Alert - Brazilian Comics fans.
(asaramelli)
5. Sherlock Holmes? (Fredrik Str?mberg)
6. Re: Sherlock Holmes? (Ole Damgaard)
7. Re: Sherlock Holmes? (Mads Jensen)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 09:37:59 +0200
From: Halsten Aastebol <Halsten.Aastebol at elkraft.ntnu.no>
Subject: RE: HD&L VS The Love
To: David Gerstein <gdavid at gemstonepub.com>, "'KUR'" <ggk at wp.pl>
Cc: "DCML \(E-mail\)" <dcml at stp.lingfil.uu.se>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20050831093057.02d44b90 at pop.elkraft.ntnu.no>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

At 16:48 30.08.2005 -0400, David Gerstein wrote:
> Hey Maciek,
>
> > In evry story I seen, I olweys Imagent that HD&L are like 9-10 yers old...
> > They seam look to be this age.
> >
> For me, the "mature" HDL of the mid-1950s always struck me as being
>around 12 or 13. But then, my view of the nephews has always been colored,
>too, by the first cartoon I ever saw them in- LUCKY NUMBER, where they seem
>to be teens, drive Donald's car, and want one of their own.
>
> > Yet! It would be a funny story if HD&L would get in love in much older
> > girl... maby sombody well k'now like Dicki, Magica, Brigitta or Daisy
> >
> Yikes! Sounds scary! Dickie is like a big sister to the boys, and
>just the thought of them falling for Magica or Brigitta... O-8
> On the other hand, in the earliest days, the nephews DO seem to have
>some kind of vague romantic interest in Daisy. Long before that "Aunt Daisy"
>stuff got started, there were cartoons like MR. DUCK STEPS OUT where the
>kids actually seem to want to beat Donald's time and have Daisy to
>themselves, for apparently romantic reasons...
>
> David

In Barks' "In Old California", it certainly seems like Panchita is making
the blood run faster in HDL's veins (and Donald's)! But then again, they
are not in love with her, only charmed. Instead they support Ronaldo's efforts.
But of course, the whole thing was just some kind of dream.
A brilliant story!

Halsten

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 13:43:02 +0200 (CEST)
From: Santiago Garc?a <saturno3x1 at yahoo.es>
Subject: Of love, childhod, and... ducks
To: dcml at stp.lingfil.uu.se
Message-ID: <20050831114302.20555.qmail at web52608.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Dan Shane:

Thank you for this little argue which helps me out of
the routine for a few moments ;-)

All right: I see our points of view about childhood
are quite different. By my own experience: My friends
and me had our first girlgriends at 7 or 8. And we
felt that was real love, not as a way to imitate the
adult people, believe me. And that was indeed an very
exciting adventure for us.

> I feel sorry for kids who hurry up their
> lives and pretend that they are emotionally mature
> enough to get involved in
> the way many adults seem to think is "cute."

Yes, I understand what you mean, but I'd just not
include loving into that "effort" to pretend to be
mature.

> As a small boy I was [...] wonderful
> to be around because of the joy I found in life. I
> want the nephews always to exhibit that joy, not get
> bogged down in the mire of romance.

Sorry, but I cannot see why you seem to see romance as
a duty instead of a joy. Moreover, falling in love is
not a kind of task one usually imposes to himself, but
a natural "accident" that sometimes happens. I just
think that could happen to HDL occasionally, just like
it happens to some children of their age.

> You are comparing apples and oranges. All these are
> instances of the nephews' MENTAL acuity, not
> EMOTIONAL maturity. The figurative heart has
nothing
> to do with the logical head.

Do you really think that emotional maturity is not
linked *anyway* with rational maturity? All right,
let's assume it. Then, let me pose these other
examples instead: (May I go on with Barks?)
-In "You can't guess", HDL feel fed up with toys and
decide to let Santa Claus give their toys to the poor
children;
-In "The golden river", HDL stay with Scrooge and
take care of him even after he's been so mean not to
give'em money for their sport field;
-In "No such varmint", HDL are worried about Donald
getting a good job while he is only wandering about
playing his flute here and there;
-In "The secret of Hondorica", HDL force Donald to
rescue Gladstone from the natives' village, even if
he's going to keep half the reward they will get from
Scrooge;
-In "Back to the Klondike", HDL feel guilty after
they have discovered Gliterring Goldie to Scrooge;
-In "The old castle's secret", HDL are the only ones
who pursue the ghost ("Uncle Quackly") never letting
him frighten them;
-In "The golden helmet", HDL are the only ones
sensitive enough to let the helmet sunk instead of
owning it to be the masters of America.

Look: In all of these examples, I'd say HDL's
behaviour is much more *emotionally* mature than any
of the adults around (Donald, Scrooge, etc). Excuse
me, but I think it's a major probe of emotional
maturity to have as high control of one's feelings as
to let appart one's own wishes and take care of the
next, instead. Try to see it the other way: Would you
say Donald is emotionally mature to be in love? Then,
why is he often so selfish, ingenuous, coward, pride,
insolent, etc?

Just my opinion.

Cheers,

Santiago.

P.S.: Excuse me this last part, Donald fans. It's
nothing personal ;-)

______________________________________________
Renovamos el Correo Yahoo!
Nuevos servicios, m?s seguridad
http://correo.yahoo.es

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 13:22:40 +0200
From: Victor <victor1717 at gmail.com>
Subject: The Stone that Turns All Metals Gold
To: dcml at stp.lingfil.uu.se
Message-ID: <2bc630c405083104223c319b82 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Hi!
I saw that an original oilpainting by Barks (The Stone that Turns All
Metals Gold), were sold on ebay for 125 000 Usdollar.
Is it really worth so much?
I mean, that is what it cost to buy a little house!

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 11:16:45 -0300
From: asaramelli <asaramelli at ig.com.br>
Subject: Turning Red Alert To Yellow Alert - Brazilian Comics fans.
To: dcml at stp.lingfil.uu.se
Message-ID: <20050831_141645_094743.asaramelli at ig.com.br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Dear DCML friends

This week, in the Brazilian Disney Comics List, Mr. Emerson Agune,
publisher from Editora Abril Team commented with us the decisions are run
for the Brazilian market Disney Comics operation.

He said that both, the Editora Abril and Disney Brasil team, with their
commercial, financial, sales, marketing and publicity, experts are
concerned, the bad decisions were needed for keep the comics, and they are
completely able to manage sucessfully the situation.

So, we put all our expectatives on the Brazilian experts team, and
we, as fans, are ready to help them if needed .
All we can do now, is to wait.

We will never forget the July/August decisions. It?s a bad
moment for all Disney Comics fans in Brazil and around the world.
If, by their experts avaliation , the bad decisions are necessary, we must
to trust.
For the other side, we are with an ask in the air : Is it REALLY necessary ?

Thank you, turning the " Red alert " to Yellow alert"

Alexandre Saramelli

---------------------------------

It sounds like the events that asaramelli reports are happening in
Brazil are very similar to what already happened here in the USA.

I really don't know what to suggest.

- Tor kinlok

----------------------------------

On Saturday August 20, Alexandre Samarelli wrote:Situation is not good in
brazilian subsidiary of McDuck Enterprises . Unfortunately, Disney Comics in
Brazil is in an advanced death penalty process.

On Thursday, August 25, Alexandre Samarelli wrote: I and all the brazilian
comics fans are under red alert. Help us with your influence, to keep the
brazilian Disney Comics Quality.

Could you tell us some more about this "red alert" situation, you seem very
concerned about? I'm afraid I didn't quite understand the fully extend of
this. Is your local Disney comics publisher in danger of closing, or is this
simply a case of them doing too many reprints of old stories and too few new
ones, and you not liking it? Or is it the quality of new stories, you are
concerned about?

Best regards, Ole Daamgard

Dear Mr. Ole Daamgard and all DCML friends

I thank you for the ask, and curiosity. It?s good to share this situation
with the international Disney Comics Fans, because, some times there are
things only fans are able to observe.
And with your help we become more stronger to our voice be heard.

In the first place, I?m going to comment some aspects we observe as readers
(customers) in Disney Comics brazilian market, and after, my personl opinion
about the causes :

Disney comics used to be for many years the top selled products for our
local publisher, the Editora Abril. From a small publisher in 50's and
60's, Editora Abril turned the first brazilian publisher, with an enormous
industrial and commercial operation.
Since the end of the local comics histories production, the comics quality
is decreasing each month. When I say "quality decreasing ", I?m not saying
about the quality of histories. I?m saying about the quality of print
product, distribuition , promotion and sales structure :

- Pages are being cutted. The Tio Patinhas magazine for example, used to be
printed with 130 pages. Since April 2004 , 100 pages, and this month,
august, only 80 pages.

- There?s no more promotion . In the past, the new magazines used to be
promoted via TV advertisements, Now, nothing. Even a little paper
advertisement in newsstands are made.

- There?s no more publicity. In the past, each comics used to receive
advertisment by strong companies like Nestle. Today, nothing.

- There?s no more people commenting about the stories. Childrens, and teens,
generally, buy another publishing products.

- There?s no more subscriptions. The magazines are only selled in the
newsstands. And newsstands generally don?t sale as sucessful as
subscriptions systems are .

And since this month, Editora Abril promoted nonsense decisions :

The traditional Almanaque Disney was finished . Almanaque Disney was so
famous than Topolino is in Italy. In it?s place they began Aventuras Disney,
with only 80 pages.

And the worst off all decisions : They decided to sectorize the
distribuition. I explain :
They print the comics, send only to the southeast cities ( the richest
brazilian cities, like S?o Paulo, Rio de Janeiro and Belo Horizonte), and
after three months, they are going to send the non selled comics in another
brazilian cities.
This decision causes an exclusion feeling in brazilian readers that live on
"sectorized" cities. If you live in Porto alegre or in Salvador, you are
under a "second class reader" sensation.

And now, let?s analyse the causes :

First of all, Editora Abril created some years ago, new magazines for the
children public : Revista Recreio, and Witch. Both of them are receiving all
kind of sales efforts. The Disney Comics are completely outside of the
process.

Second ; Disney Brasil company don?t work integrated with Editora Abril.
Disney Brasil promote only the new Disney characters, and forgot the
traditionals. Mr Marcos Rosset, the Disney Brasil President as I obsorve,
only acts on the Disney Channel Closed TV .

And the main problem : They planned the Disney comics to be as cheaper as
possible. It?s wrong. The real whisper is to act on the "reader quality
perception".
Because promotion less, people dont?t see quality on the comics.
So, they don?t buy comics! It?s possible to put the best histories ever
time created by Disney Artists, and to sale with the cheaper price , people
are not going to buy.

Brazilian Comics market, if good management, is a very profitable market.
At the same time, I think we are on the point of no return. The next step,
if nothing professional is done, is to finish the comics production.

To finish a comics magazine like Uncle Scrooge, in a country where 85 % of
new enterprises dies in it?s first 5 years old is a crime. Uncle Scrooge is
the only business world character , who gives the opportunity to talk about
business world subjects to children young and adults. obviously I love Uncle
Scrooge as a fan, but talking with professional vision : We need characters
like Uncle Scrooge.

Under this situation I ask for all : See with special care the decisions are
taken by the Editora Abril and Disney Brasil?s executives .

Alexandre Saramelli
S?o Paulo - SP - Brasil

Alexandre Saramelli is 32 years old, and is an accountant.
Alexandre and his father Darcy Saramelli, 74 , loves Disney Comics,
specially Uncle Scrooge Character.

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 20:34:00 +0200
From: Fredrik Str?mberg <fstromberg at telia.com>
Subject: Sherlock Holmes?
To: <dcml at stp.lingfil.uu.se>
Message-ID: <000101c5ae5a$8e5211c0$3b36f953 at fredrik5ec2e32>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Hi again!

I have now completed the foreword on Shakespeare in Disney comics (thanks
for all the help) and have started the next one, which will be about Arthur
Conan Doyle and Sherlock Holmes. I have located the comics with Basil The
Mouse Detective and The Sleuth and I am now looking for more obscure
parodies, satires, references etc. If anyone can hep me with suggestions, I
would be most grateful.

Cheers!

Fredrik Str?mberg
Hantverkaregatan 6 D
211 55 Malm?
Sweden
+46 40 611 00 89

------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 23:09:16 +0200
From: "Ole Damgaard" <post at oledamgaard.dk>
Subject: Re: Sherlock Holmes?
To: "Disney Comics Mailing List" <dcml at stp.lingfil.uu.se>
Message-ID: <000601c5ae70$3f2051a0$fd475853 at oles>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original

Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 8:34 PM
Subject: Sherlock Holmes?

> I have now completed the foreword on Shakespeare in Disney comics (thanks
> for all the help) and have started the next one, which will be about
> Arthur Conan Doyle and Sherlock Holmes. I have located the comics with
> Basil The Mouse Detective and The Sleuth and I am now looking for more
> obscure parodies, satires, references etc. If anyone can help me with
> suggestions, I would be most grateful.
Fredrik Str?mberg

Elementary, my dear Watson! :-)

Peter Kylling offers a list of some Barks detective stories at his website:
http://cbarks.dk/thedetectivestories.htm . In some of them HD&L wears the
characteristic Sherlock Holmes hats.
- And, off course we must not forget Shamrock Bones...an obvious parody of
Holmes, with the same hat and pipe, but not quite the same wit as Holmes...
http://shorterlink.com/?YKL71N

PS: I'm curious: What are you writing forewords for?

/ole

------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 23:38:15 +0200
From: Mads Jensen <mje at inducks.org>
Subject: Re: Sherlock Holmes?
To: DCML Mailing List <dcml at stp.lingfil.uu.se>
Message-ID: <43162347.10000 at inducks.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Fredrik Str?mberg wrote:
> I have now completed the foreword on Shakespeare in Disney comics (thanks
> for all the help) and have started the next one, which will be about Arthur
> Conan Doyle and Sherlock Holmes. I have located the comics with Basil The
> Mouse Detective and The Sleuth and I am now looking for more obscure
> parodies, satires, references etc. If anyone can hep me with suggestions, I
> would be most grateful.

Mickey Mouse comes to mind, especially the classical Gottfredson
episodes. There's got to some references to Sherlock Holmes in this
character.

Do you plan to write about Tolkien ? If so, IS TL 2081-1 (I TL 2081-1)
is a reference to "Lord of the Rings".
- --
Mads Jensen

Dansk Donaldist-Forening - http://ddfr.dk
INDUCKS - http://inducks.org

SANTIAGO WRITES:

> Sorry, but I cannot see why you seem to see romance as a duty
> instead of a joy. Moreover, falling in love is not a kind of
> task one usually imposes to himself, but a natural "accident"
> that sometimes happens. I just think that could happen to HDL
> occasionally, just like it happens to some children of their age.

AND MY RESPONSE IS:

Oh, I agree that it COULD happen to the nephews, as it can to anyone. I'm
just saying I don't want to see it happen, as it would ruin my perception of
their "all boy" personalities. Certainly lots of kids of the same age as
HD&L "fall in love", but I just don't see our boys doing so. If anyone
writes a story where one of them forms a crush on a girl I will immediately
dismiss that tale as non-canonical.

THEN SANTIAGO ASKS:

> Do you really think that emotional maturity is not linked
> *anyway* with rational maturity?

AND I ANSWER:

No, I absolutely believe that the figurative heart can motivate individuals
to perform beneficial and well-reasoned acts, such as you list here:

> Then, let me pose these other examples instead: (May I go on
> with Barks?)
> -In "You can't guess", HDL feel fed up with toys and
> decide to let Santa Claus give their toys to the poor children;
> -In "The golden river", HDL stay with Scrooge and take
> care of him even after he's been so mean not to give'em money
> for their sport field;
> -In "No such varmint", HDL are worried about Donald
> getting a good job while he is only wandering about playing
> his flute here and there;
> -In "The secret of Hondorica", HDL force Donald to
> rescue Gladstone from the natives' village, even if he's
> going to keep half the reward they will get from Scrooge;
> -In "Back to the Klondike", HDL feel guilty after they
> have discovered Gliterring Goldie to Scrooge;
> -In "The old castle's secret", HDL are the only ones
> who pursue the ghost ("Uncle Quackly") never letting him
> frighten them;
> -In "The golden helmet", HDL are the only ones
> sensitive enough to let the helmet sunk instead of owning it
> to be the masters of America.

But the original post was about romantic love, not brotherly love (Greek
root 'philia') or the principled love (Greek root 'agape') for mankind that
motivates people to perform good deeds. None of the examples you listed has
anything to do with "falling in love" (Greek root 'eros'). I am foursquare
on your side about the nephews' fine character and unselfish love that
impels them to help their family and friends.

However, if you are going to claim that sympathy and caring have any kinship
with the animal attraction that typifies romantic love I fear your argument
will fall on deaf ears. Kids can show love by sharing and thinking of
others ahead of themselves. They develop this ability early on. And some
youngsters also fall in love, either because they are imitating the
affection their parents show each other or (regrettably) emulating the
infatuations of others. But it didn't happen to me or my siblings, and none
of my 4 children demonstrated such feelings until they were teenagers.

And I still maintain that just because something CAN AND DOES HAPPEN in our
society, that does not mean it has to happen to my heroes. I recognize very
well the foibles and imperfections of my favorite characters. Donald is
somewhat slothful and perhaps overly carefree. $crooge is miserly and does
not immediately think of others. The nephews seem to be the closest to
ethical perfection of any characters in the Duck comics, though they can
still occasionally be prankish and disobedient (as pre-teens often are).
But I still cannot picture them attracted to girls in a romantic way -- it
would just not be the HD&L I knew as a kid and as I view them now.

Greetings to all!

The discussion about detective stories reminded me of the animated
Disney movie in the middle 1980's The Great Mouse Detective, which
used the voice of the great Vincent Price for Rattigan, the villain
in the story. I have always thought this movie was underrated and
under-appreciated. The finale, in the gears of the clock Big Ben,
has even been copied by Jackie Chan in Shanghai Knights. If you do
not know this movie, made before The Lion King, you are missing a
very fine and funny piece of work..

Dear DCML readers,
I will be traveling to Europe on the Carl Barks Fan Club Goodwill Tour. The centerpiece of the tour will be the Barks International Art Exibition to be held in Rapallo,Italy from Sept 17-Oct 2.
I will also spend time in Helsinke, Copenhagen, Paris and Florence. My main interest is in buying, trading or seeing early Disney related items manufactured or published before 1950. If you can suggest any stores, places or people to visit please send me a private e-mail with that information. More Disneyana was produced in countries other than the United States !
Looking forward to your reponse...Dennis Books

---------------------------------
Yahoo! Mail for Mobile
Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.

Hello!

- Fredrik -

>>> I have now completed the foreword on Shakespeare in Disney comics
(thanks
>>> for all the help) and have started the next one, which will be about
Arthur
>>> Conan Doyle and Sherlock Holmes.

I suppose you already have it, but just in case:
Don Markstein & Noel Van Horn's excellent "Surefoot Jones" (D 98461) ,
published in MM & Fiends 261 (February 2004), which I only read a few
noghts ago. A funny parody of Doyle's character, starring Surefoot Jones and
his partner, Watsup.

Totally unrelated-- the only common point is that i only read it a few
nights ago as well: I loved Gorm Transgaard & Esteban"s "An Entangled
Encounter" (D 99221), published in U$ 326, February 2004. It was simple, yet
well told-- it all flowed smoothly; a very nice story.

Related-- I liked "The Sleuth stories too; funny silly stories.

All the best,

Olivier

Elaine:

> In reference to Santiago's statement, "They are not
> shown acting as *actual*
> kids, but as we wished our children to behave"--I
> don't agree with that.
> Yes, they are, as Dan says, the closest to ethical
> maturity among the ducks.
> But in their ability to rescue the adults, they are
> a *child's* fantasy of
> what a kid should be/really is, not an adult fantasy
> of what a child should be

That's OK for me. (You see, I'm still a bit of a
child... ;-). What I meant was just to disagree with
Dan's sentence:

>Let the kids act like kids in the comics.

Still Elaine:

> The nephews' indignation at
> Scrooge's suggestion that
> they are "pretty much alike" in Return to Plain
> Awful was one of the
> laugh-out-loud moments for me in that story. At the

For me, too!

> same time, I'm
> interested in how other writers might view the
> nephews' identical
> triplethood differently.

Interesting discuss. I sometimes wonder by Barks
made'em as many as *three*. Some notes amaze me:
-About the look: They could have different looks:
The unique-HDL-look is not usually used to mistake one
of them by another (and may not be used, because
having the same personality and circumstances, such
mistake wouldn't have interest);
-About the personality: They behave the same, so
they could be just one person (=duck);

Maybe it was the need for three characters and the
laziness to make three different sketches?

I just can think of one reason why I really appreciate
this triple-character as it is conceived: Their
looking is really comical!

Cheers,

Santiago.

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