I can't imagine, say, for comparison, ripping out the fingernails of my nephew, while he is conscious and screaming.
Then, of course, as a result of that gruesome act, I would never be able to speak to anyone in my family ever again, if not also sued by my sister for all my worldly possessions (including my comic books), and also my having to spend some months or years in jail or prison. Does the story writer REALLY need to have Donald punished so harshly to make a point in that story?
Author
Topic: Italian Disney Comics...too violent?
(57 messages)
Robb_K
Italian Disney Comics...too violent?
Message 31 -
2013-03-24 at 19:53:46
Mr. M
Italian Disney Comics...too violent?
Message 32 -
2013-03-24 at 22:02:13
Speaking of Disney storires thet felt way too violent
There was one Flemming Andersen story... I think it was this one...
http://coa.inducks.org/story.php?c=D+2009-230
From what I recll It actually shown Donald bleeding... he get's biten by some sort of vampire-bat and picture actually shown some blood on Donalds neck and a drop or two driping from it...
Quote from user: Robb_KI can't imagine, say, for comparison, ripping out the fingernails of my nephew, while he is conscious and screaming.
Then, of course, as a result of that gruesome act, I would never be able to speak to anyone in my family ever again, if not also sued by my sister for all my worldly possessions (including my comic books), and also my having to spend some months or years in jail or prison. Does the story writer REALLY need to have Donald punished so harshly to make a point in that story?
The question is... WHAT horrible thing Donald did to deserve such crule punishment! oO
Quote:Children certainly know that violence exists. It's with them every day (gangs and bullies), and, perhaps (unfortunately0 even their own parents or babysitters). I'd venture to guess that a number of Disney Comics (and other comics) fans retreat into the fantasy world of comics to get away from their real life which may be filled with violent child abuse. (...)
Still, I think that Disney's Italian comics' stories show too much violence, and too much unrealistic violence, that takes over stories so much that they often become too cluttered or off-track to follow the plotline. The same is true of the exaggerated artwork. It makes it too much work to follow the story. That is why i never really paid attention to the Dutch pocketbooks, or the US printings of italian stories (other than the brilliant art and writing in Romano Scarpa's Mickey mouse stories.
To give Italian stories some credit for being responsible...
This issue of Topolino :
http://coa.inducks.org/issue.php?c=it/TL+2970 focuse On the bully problem, it had a story that center around the issue
http://coa.inducks.org/hr.php?normalsize=1&image=http://outducks.org/webusers/webusers/2012/10/it_tl_2970a_001.jpg
and had some articles that touch on the subject
http://coa.inducks.org/hr.php?image=http://outducks.org/webusers/webusers/2012/11/it_tl_2970e_001.jpg&normalsize=1
I'm not sure how seriously/realisticly they treated this problem but I think it's great if they at least touch on the subject and I would love to see Disney stories take social issues [as long they aren't political etc.] to educate kids how to behave in such situations...
There was one Flemming Andersen story... I think it was this one...
http://coa.inducks.org/story.php?c=D+2009-230
From what I recll It actually shown Donald bleeding... he get's biten by some sort of vampire-bat and picture actually shown some blood on Donalds neck and a drop or two driping from it...
Quote from user: Robb_KI can't imagine, say, for comparison, ripping out the fingernails of my nephew, while he is conscious and screaming.
Then, of course, as a result of that gruesome act, I would never be able to speak to anyone in my family ever again, if not also sued by my sister for all my worldly possessions (including my comic books), and also my having to spend some months or years in jail or prison. Does the story writer REALLY need to have Donald punished so harshly to make a point in that story?
The question is... WHAT horrible thing Donald did to deserve such crule punishment! oO
Quote:Children certainly know that violence exists. It's with them every day (gangs and bullies), and, perhaps (unfortunately0 even their own parents or babysitters). I'd venture to guess that a number of Disney Comics (and other comics) fans retreat into the fantasy world of comics to get away from their real life which may be filled with violent child abuse. (...)
Still, I think that Disney's Italian comics' stories show too much violence, and too much unrealistic violence, that takes over stories so much that they often become too cluttered or off-track to follow the plotline. The same is true of the exaggerated artwork. It makes it too much work to follow the story. That is why i never really paid attention to the Dutch pocketbooks, or the US printings of italian stories (other than the brilliant art and writing in Romano Scarpa's Mickey mouse stories.
To give Italian stories some credit for being responsible...
This issue of Topolino :
http://coa.inducks.org/issue.php?c=it/TL+2970 focuse On the bully problem, it had a story that center around the issue
http://coa.inducks.org/hr.php?normalsize=1&image=http://outducks.org/webusers/webusers/2012/10/it_tl_2970a_001.jpg
and had some articles that touch on the subject
http://coa.inducks.org/hr.php?image=http://outducks.org/webusers/webusers/2012/11/it_tl_2970e_001.jpg&normalsize=1
I'm not sure how seriously/realisticly they treated this problem but I think it's great if they at least touch on the subject and I would love to see Disney stories take social issues [as long they aren't political etc.] to educate kids how to behave in such situations...
Mr. M
Italian Disney Comics...too violent?
Message 33 -
2013-03-25 at 01:01:31
Another wise anti-abuse Italian story is this one :
http://coa.inducks.org/story.php?c=I+TL+1828-A
In this story Morty and Ferdie learn that their friend got brutally bit-up by his uncle and the story teaches about helpline for children who are being abuse by their parents.
http://coa.inducks.org/hr.php?image=http://outducks.org/webusers/webusers/2008/07/it_tl_1828b_001.jpg&normalsize=1
http://coa.inducks.org/story.php?c=I+TL+1828-A
In this story Morty and Ferdie learn that their friend got brutally bit-up by his uncle and the story teaches about helpline for children who are being abuse by their parents.
http://coa.inducks.org/hr.php?image=http://outducks.org/webusers/webusers/2008/07/it_tl_1828b_001.jpg&normalsize=1
Review Or Die
Italian Disney Comics...too violent?
Message 34 -
2013-03-25 at 03:23:58
Mickey beating the snot out of Pete doesn't cause people to bat an eye, nor should it (Pete's the bad guy, after all, and trying to do the exact same thing to him!) but this just strikes me as a weird sort of sadism played for comedy. One works, the other doesn't.
It's important not to confuse the two. And I say especially because I think Disney comics should have the opportunity to be more 'violent', at least in such a way where action/adventure stories can be told as ably as the pure adventure story mold. The last thing I want is for that to be prevented because some terrible jokes were lumped together with genuine action.
It's important not to confuse the two. And I say especially because I think Disney comics should have the opportunity to be more 'violent', at least in such a way where action/adventure stories can be told as ably as the pure adventure story mold. The last thing I want is for that to be prevented because some terrible jokes were lumped together with genuine action.
Robb_K
Italian Disney Comics...too violent?
Message 35 -
2013-03-25 at 04:00:51
Quote from user: Mr. MAnother wise anti-abuse Italian story is this one :
http://coa.inducks.org/story.php?c=I+TL+1828-A
In this story Morty and Ferdie learn that their friend got brutally bit-up by his uncle and the story teaches about helpline for children who are being abuse by their parents.
http://coa.inducks.org/hr.php?image=http://outducks.org/webusers/webusers/2008/07/it_tl_1828b_001.jpg&normalsize=1
These are the kind of "public service educational" comics that are preachy and, therefore, not usually liked by children. Stories with educational messages in them must have the message delivered very subtly, or the reader will rebel, and not be open to receive the message because he or she has been promised entertainment, but instead been given educational material because of an agenda of the publisher.
http://coa.inducks.org/story.php?c=I+TL+1828-A
In this story Morty and Ferdie learn that their friend got brutally bit-up by his uncle and the story teaches about helpline for children who are being abuse by their parents.
http://coa.inducks.org/hr.php?image=http://outducks.org/webusers/webusers/2008/07/it_tl_1828b_001.jpg&normalsize=1
These are the kind of "public service educational" comics that are preachy and, therefore, not usually liked by children. Stories with educational messages in them must have the message delivered very subtly, or the reader will rebel, and not be open to receive the message because he or she has been promised entertainment, but instead been given educational material because of an agenda of the publisher.
Dutch Duckfan Down Under
Italian Disney Comics...too violent?
Message 36 -
2013-03-26 at 12:21:53
Quote from user: Mr. MQuote from user: Robb_KI can't imagine, say, for comparison, ripping out the fingernails of my nephew, while he is conscious and screaming.
Then, of course, as a result of that gruesome act, I would never be able to speak to anyone in my family ever again, if not also sued by my sister for all my worldly possessions (including my comic books), and also my having to spend some months or years in jail or prison. Does the story writer REALLY need to have Donald punished so harshly to make a point in that story?
The question is... WHAT horrible thing Donald did to deserve such crule punishment! oO
Before I answer this question, let me just say this: Italian Disney comics are vastly different from their US counterpart. The tone is different, the characters are different, the story length and drawings are different. Some of you may find it distracting, but it's just its own style.
Except for the stories of the 1940s and 50s. These *are* genuinely awful. This may be why The Lentils of Babylon is so popular in Italy, it may have been their first good Disney Duck story. All the Duck stories from before that were violent, illogical, gimmicky and just plain weird. This particular comic is no different, if it weren't for that last panel. That just crosses the line.
Donald Duck, in "A Windy Story"
During a rainy spring day, the Ducks are walking somewhere. Uncle Scrooge wanted them to come to his piece of land just outside of town - urgently. They see Gladstone walking their way, and start running. (They don't want him meddling in their meeting.) However, Donald doesn't look out and manages to dive into a puddle. The small puddle is filled with water almost up to Donald's shoulder, and he even pulls a fish out of it. They run further. Gladstone, meanwhile, thinks "why are they running?" and runs after them.
The Ducks arrive at Scrooge's field. Donald catches a cold, and sneezes Scrooge's umbrella to bits. Then Scrooge tells him about his scheme. He's heard that all rich ladies will buy violet perfume this year. Scrooge explains that he makes 9 guilders on each bottle, and he expects one million rich ladies to buy his perfume twice a year, amounting to 18 million guilders. He wants Donald to be his associate, and he will earn half a guilder per half million. (Yup, that's 18 guilders.) Donald is about to hit Scrooge with a randomly appeared club for this trick, but Scrooge says he will pay him 100 guilders. Don has to harvest the violets.
Gladstone arrives. The kids tell him what just happened and Scrooge wants to work with him if Donald refuses. Donald throws a tantrum, because he's not going to let Gladstone take the job. He'll take it, even for a miserable pay.
Harvesting the violins turns out to be using a sponge to dry the violet field (which looks more like a rice field, becuase of all the rain) and put it in a bucket. The field has to be dry by tomorrow morning. Donald's sneezes (which are impossibly powerful) give the nephews the idea to use a wind machine to dry the field. The thing overloads within minutes and the field is ruined. All the violets are gone.
Don asks Gyro to make violet seed that can grow within hours. He makes it, and they plant it. Come morning, and Scrooge is outraged that the field is full of twigs. Turns out Gyro made upside-down violets, while nobody asked for it. (Great, Gryo...)
The perfumes sell great. Donald gets 5 guilders for his work (100 minus 95 for Scrooge's umbrella). In a fit of rage, he throws Scrooge's cactus out of the window, which hits Gladstone, which ends with him being in the hospital with the cactus. Which turns out to be extinct for 100 years. And great for litres of perfume. (Isn't it logical?)
Gladstone's new perfume becomes a great success. Scrooge can't sell his, and goes to ask Gladstone where it came from. Gladstone points to the cactus Donald threw out of Scrooge's window, and Scrooge is off to Donald's house to sit on him while plucking his tail feathers in anger.
What.
Then, of course, as a result of that gruesome act, I would never be able to speak to anyone in my family ever again, if not also sued by my sister for all my worldly possessions (including my comic books), and also my having to spend some months or years in jail or prison. Does the story writer REALLY need to have Donald punished so harshly to make a point in that story?
The question is... WHAT horrible thing Donald did to deserve such crule punishment! oO
Before I answer this question, let me just say this: Italian Disney comics are vastly different from their US counterpart. The tone is different, the characters are different, the story length and drawings are different. Some of you may find it distracting, but it's just its own style.
Except for the stories of the 1940s and 50s. These *are* genuinely awful. This may be why The Lentils of Babylon is so popular in Italy, it may have been their first good Disney Duck story. All the Duck stories from before that were violent, illogical, gimmicky and just plain weird. This particular comic is no different, if it weren't for that last panel. That just crosses the line.
Donald Duck, in "A Windy Story"
During a rainy spring day, the Ducks are walking somewhere. Uncle Scrooge wanted them to come to his piece of land just outside of town - urgently. They see Gladstone walking their way, and start running. (They don't want him meddling in their meeting.) However, Donald doesn't look out and manages to dive into a puddle. The small puddle is filled with water almost up to Donald's shoulder, and he even pulls a fish out of it. They run further. Gladstone, meanwhile, thinks "why are they running?" and runs after them.
The Ducks arrive at Scrooge's field. Donald catches a cold, and sneezes Scrooge's umbrella to bits. Then Scrooge tells him about his scheme. He's heard that all rich ladies will buy violet perfume this year. Scrooge explains that he makes 9 guilders on each bottle, and he expects one million rich ladies to buy his perfume twice a year, amounting to 18 million guilders. He wants Donald to be his associate, and he will earn half a guilder per half million. (Yup, that's 18 guilders.) Donald is about to hit Scrooge with a randomly appeared club for this trick, but Scrooge says he will pay him 100 guilders. Don has to harvest the violets.
Gladstone arrives. The kids tell him what just happened and Scrooge wants to work with him if Donald refuses. Donald throws a tantrum, because he's not going to let Gladstone take the job. He'll take it, even for a miserable pay.
Harvesting the violins turns out to be using a sponge to dry the violet field (which looks more like a rice field, becuase of all the rain) and put it in a bucket. The field has to be dry by tomorrow morning. Donald's sneezes (which are impossibly powerful) give the nephews the idea to use a wind machine to dry the field. The thing overloads within minutes and the field is ruined. All the violets are gone.
Don asks Gyro to make violet seed that can grow within hours. He makes it, and they plant it. Come morning, and Scrooge is outraged that the field is full of twigs. Turns out Gyro made upside-down violets, while nobody asked for it. (Great, Gryo...)
The perfumes sell great. Donald gets 5 guilders for his work (100 minus 95 for Scrooge's umbrella). In a fit of rage, he throws Scrooge's cactus out of the window, which hits Gladstone, which ends with him being in the hospital with the cactus. Which turns out to be extinct for 100 years. And great for litres of perfume. (Isn't it logical?)
Gladstone's new perfume becomes a great success. Scrooge can't sell his, and goes to ask Gladstone where it came from. Gladstone points to the cactus Donald threw out of Scrooge's window, and Scrooge is off to Donald's house to sit on him while plucking his tail feathers in anger.
What.
GeoX
Italian Disney Comics...too violent?
Message 37 -
2013-03-26 at 16:30:32
Quote from user: Dutch Duckfan Down UnderThis may be why The Lentils of Babylon is so popular in Italy, it may have been their first good Disney Duck story
I haven't read all that many of the oldest Italian stories, but this statement is definitely not true (accepting, for the sake of argument, that we're willing to call "Lentils" "good"): Scarpa did a handful of decent duck stories that predate this, including the first story he drew AND wrote (an unusual mystery thing that reminds one more of his mouse work), his Robin Hood story (which, no joke, is just GREAT), and "The Man from Oola-Oola" (which, in my book, is far superior to "Lentils").
Still, I wouldn't dispute the more general point. I think the biggest issue is that so damn many of them were written by Guido Martina, a man who had his moments but who was also, let's face it, a weird sadist.
I haven't read all that many of the oldest Italian stories, but this statement is definitely not true (accepting, for the sake of argument, that we're willing to call "Lentils" "good"): Scarpa did a handful of decent duck stories that predate this, including the first story he drew AND wrote (an unusual mystery thing that reminds one more of his mouse work), his Robin Hood story (which, no joke, is just GREAT), and "The Man from Oola-Oola" (which, in my book, is far superior to "Lentils").
Still, I wouldn't dispute the more general point. I think the biggest issue is that so damn many of them were written by Guido Martina, a man who had his moments but who was also, let's face it, a weird sadist.
Artemi
Italian Disney Comics...too violent?
Message 38 -
2013-03-26 at 17:24:13
Loved the violent Scrooge scene... uhm... am I sadist? :D
I adore the villain Scrooge in (a lot of) early Italian stories. I must be sadist, then... ;)
I adore the villain Scrooge in (a lot of) early Italian stories. I must be sadist, then... ;)
Dutch Duckfan Down Under
Italian Disney Comics...too violent?
Message 39 -
2013-03-26 at 18:31:56
Quote from user: GeoXStill, I wouldn't dispute the more general point. I think the biggest issue is that so damn many of them were written by Guido Martina, a man who had his moments but who was also, let's face it, a weird sadist.
Guess who wrote this one? I understand why you called him your arch-nemesis on your blog. Only now I notice that all those bad stories were written by him.
Guess who wrote this one? I understand why you called him your arch-nemesis on your blog. Only now I notice that all those bad stories were written by him.
Artemi
Italian Disney Comics...too violent?
Message 40 -
2013-03-26 at 19:09:00
Well it means that I'm a fan of the guy. :D
GeoX
Italian Disney Comics...too violent?
Message 41 -
2013-03-26 at 20:01:04
Quote from user: Dutch Duckfan Down UnderGuess who wrote this one? I understand why you called him your arch-nemesis on your blog. Only now I notice that all those bad stories were written by him.
:D
To be fair, his mouse stories typically fare somewhat better. He just somehow got this idée fixe that Donald and Scrooge's relationship should be an abusive one; not that other people don't do that as well to one extent or another, but he often took it to distasteful extremes. Thinking about it, whether or not we're talking about "The Lentils of Babylon" specifically, it seems to me that it must be the case that a good part of Scarpa's reputation is built on the fact that, whatever faults his stories have (and, indeed, they are legion), they are notably free of the kind of dispiriting violence that oft characterized his compatriot's work.
:D
To be fair, his mouse stories typically fare somewhat better. He just somehow got this idée fixe that Donald and Scrooge's relationship should be an abusive one; not that other people don't do that as well to one extent or another, but he often took it to distasteful extremes. Thinking about it, whether or not we're talking about "The Lentils of Babylon" specifically, it seems to me that it must be the case that a good part of Scarpa's reputation is built on the fact that, whatever faults his stories have (and, indeed, they are legion), they are notably free of the kind of dispiriting violence that oft characterized his compatriot's work.
Lars Jensen
Italian Disney Comics...too violent?
Message 42 -
2013-03-26 at 20:37:10
Quote from user: ArtemiWell it means that I'm a fan of the guy. :D
Me too. Guido Martina was a great writer.
Me too. Guido Martina was a great writer.
Mr. M
Italian Disney Comics...too violent?
Message 43 -
2013-03-26 at 21:22:08
Thanks Dutch Duckfan Down Under. Sound's like type of story I would most likley skip.. To be honest we seen plenty of story which ends with Donald doing something that made Scrooge mad and ge would go chasing him with a cane... now we finally know what happens when Scrooge finally catches Donald ;)
Quote from user: GeoXTo be fair, his mouse stories typically fare somewhat better.
Yhe. The more I think about it Scarpa is best doing Mouse stuff. In "Hall of Fame" there is an an article about him where he say Mickey is his favorite hero so he obviously put more work into them.
I think my favorite thing he did was "Blot duoble mystery".
Quote:He just somehow got this idée fixe that Donald and Scrooge's relationship should be an abusive one;not that other people don't do that as well to one extent or another, but he often took it to distasteful extremes.
Ha! Speak of extreme abuse... that's nothging!
In Scarpas http://coa.inducks.org/story.php?c=I+TL++174-AP (which is another great one BTW) there is a point where Scrooge makes a terrible buisness deal and as a form of self-punishment he chain himself to the wall (!) It's absurd and funy but disturbing at the same time to see this form of self abuse in Disney comics...
Quote from user: GeoXTo be fair, his mouse stories typically fare somewhat better.
Yhe. The more I think about it Scarpa is best doing Mouse stuff. In "Hall of Fame" there is an an article about him where he say Mickey is his favorite hero so he obviously put more work into them.
I think my favorite thing he did was "Blot duoble mystery".
Quote:He just somehow got this idée fixe that Donald and Scrooge's relationship should be an abusive one;not that other people don't do that as well to one extent or another, but he often took it to distasteful extremes.
Ha! Speak of extreme abuse... that's nothging!
In Scarpas http://coa.inducks.org/story.php?c=I+TL++174-AP (which is another great one BTW) there is a point where Scrooge makes a terrible buisness deal and as a form of self-punishment he chain himself to the wall (!) It's absurd and funy but disturbing at the same time to see this form of self abuse in Disney comics...
Arnaud
Italian Disney Comics...too violent?
Message 44 -
2013-03-26 at 21:26:17
Quote from user: Lars JensenQuote from user: ArtemiWell it means that I'm a fan of the guy. :D
Me too. Guido Martina was a great writer.
Same here ! :D
Me too. Guido Martina was a great writer.
Same here ! :D
Gyro Gearloose
Italian Disney Comics...too violent?
Message 45 -
2013-03-26 at 22:54:35
Quote from user: Mr. MYhe. The more I think about it Scarpa is best doing Mouse stuff. In "Hall of Fame" there is an an article about him where he say Mickey is his favorite hero so he obviously put more work into them.
I think my favorite thing he did was "Blot duoble mystery".
Actually, Blot's Double Mystery is written by Martina too, and I frankly find it overrated and something of a disappointment. Its first two thirds are wonderful--really creepy and atmospheric, with a Blot that's truly menacing and completely unlike the pathetic Blot seen in 1960s American stories. However, when Eega Beeva and Pflip suddenly enter through the "Fourth Dimension" to help Mickey, the story goes off the rails. Eega is a character I don't particularly care for, but I can take him if he's introduced to the story from the start and functions as more of a sidekick; in Blot's Double Mystery, he takes over all almost all the detective work from Mickey, unravels the Blot's scheme, and basically serves as deus ex machina. Bringing Eega in this late in the story and having him take over as the hero seems like really poor plotting to me; I would have liked to have seen Mickey figure out the Blot's hypnotic trickery himself, as he would have done in one of Gottfredson's stories.
I think my favorite thing he did was "Blot duoble mystery".
Actually, Blot's Double Mystery is written by Martina too, and I frankly find it overrated and something of a disappointment. Its first two thirds are wonderful--really creepy and atmospheric, with a Blot that's truly menacing and completely unlike the pathetic Blot seen in 1960s American stories. However, when Eega Beeva and Pflip suddenly enter through the "Fourth Dimension" to help Mickey, the story goes off the rails. Eega is a character I don't particularly care for, but I can take him if he's introduced to the story from the start and functions as more of a sidekick; in Blot's Double Mystery, he takes over all almost all the detective work from Mickey, unravels the Blot's scheme, and basically serves as deus ex machina. Bringing Eega in this late in the story and having him take over as the hero seems like really poor plotting to me; I would have liked to have seen Mickey figure out the Blot's hypnotic trickery himself, as he would have done in one of Gottfredson's stories.