Keskustelujen arkisto

Thank you all for the kind replies! Harry's list will probably keep me
occupied for couple of days.

Robert: I've read Ault's book and its indeed good. I need to reread that
bit about Barks talking about reffering to his own stories.

Donald D. Markstein wrote:
> By the way, I've noticed over the years that whenever there's a heated
> controversy on this otherwise extremely friendly list, leading to
> moderators "scrubbing" posts lest things get out of hand, there's always
> one particular person in the thick of it. Need I mention who?
One person seems to be keeping certain type conversation going on there,
without anyone moderating him out like we have here. No wonder he is so
keen to see us all migrate there to be his audience.

> Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 08:29:05 -0700
> From: "Donald D. Markstein"

[quote]
By the way, I've noticed over the years that whenever there's a heated
controversy on this otherwise extremely friendly list, leading to moderators
"scrubbing" posts lest things get out of hand, there's always one particular
person in the thick of it. Need I mention who?
[/quote]

I'll gladly fit the shoe of being a person taking part in heated
discussions. There were many others joining those discussions and if some
people have the opinion that I should be picked out as the one responsible,
I don't mind.

> Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2006 00:20:15 +0300
> From: Kai Saarto

[quote]
One person seems to be keeping certain type conversation going on there,
without anyone moderating him out like we have here. No wonder he is so keen
to see us all migrate there to be his audience.
[/quote]

Do you mean McDuck International? http://discussion.mcduck.nl
If you suggest I could use McDuck International as a platform to be keeping
a certain type of conversation going, you're mistaken. There are many Disney
comics fans visiting the McDuck fora, including people here from DCML, and I
don't think they would like it to be an ego show. People at McDuck can be
very critical and hard about my writings.
I'm just mentioning McDuck as an open medium where members and guests
discuss without being moderated at first. I see DCML and McDuck as two
different places, full of interesting people. Both places having their own
benefits.
So, no migration please. (Unless you choose for both.)

Best,
Dani?l

Arie:

> I am not aware if there are distinct characteristics among the
> nephews (if
> there exists any), so I wanted to make sure whether it was intended
> by the
> colorist or purely coincidental that Huey steals most of the
> spotlight.

The only distinct characteristics between the nephews, as a rule, is
that they have different names and different hat colors. In U.S.
comics this has generally settled into Huey-red, Dewey-blue, and
Louie-green, in that visual order. This is more a rule of thumb than
any hard-and-fast "policy" on anyone's part.

For colorist such as myself, Sue Daigle-Leach, and Scott Rockwell -
just to name the ones that come immediately to mind - if there is
just one nephew in panel, and there's no narrative reason he's any
one particular nephew, then than nephew tends to be Huey, since he's
the first nephew in visual order.

Gary

Lars Jensen said:
"Hey, Rich, you forgot the kitchen sink! ;-)"

Talking about my list of characters:
> I'm still hoping to see Gideon McDuck (Scrooge's brother);
> Kildare Coot (Sgrizzo Papero); Bruto (Mickey's talking bird);
> Dugan Duck (Biquinho); Gloria (dal Brasile), Fethry's girlfriend;
> Trudy (Pete's moll); Super Daisy (Papernika) and, especially ,
> some of the NEW Junior Woodchucks (Giovani Marmotte) stories
> featuring Moguls Bertie McGoose & Clarissa von Scout finally make
> their USA debut!

I know you seemingly meant that as a joke, but I am TOTALLY serious with respect to that list of characters.
The inference behind it, of course is that here in the US we are doled out a very minute measure of what is
available and has been available for decades. And that measure is more than often infused with a very
healthy dose of what's been published and republished and republished again. Sure, I know it's been said
that the reason we are so frequently "re-Barks'ed" is because:
1) the stories are good,
2) they sell comics,
3) they are often requested and probably
4) because a new generation of readers probably hasn't read them.

Granted... But *sigh* I guess it's my fault I've seen them, read them and own them already...

It's the doomed destiny of being a longtime fan, reader and collector of Disney comics that go all the way
back to the 1930 (not that I do, just my collection does). I also know that part of the reason given is that
many of the older material (at least that which was published originally here in the US) was in a Disney
legal imposed exile for various reasons and couldn't be republish, though thankfully, only of late, much of
this material has finally been approved for reprint for the FIRST TIME IN DECADES (here in the US) such as
Gottfredson's "Love Trouble." Also, I know that another valid reason given is that not all older material,
either foreign or domestic is necessarily "good" or "suitable" for reprint, thus a form of filtering and
sifting occurs before material is actually chosen for reprint... Then, and finally, the biggest reasons so
little is published in the US... There are only 6 formats for reprinting this material and their pages are
very limited, the books that hold the most pages are quite expensive, and the readership is is probably
limited as well... Thus, despite all the effort that goes on "behind the scenes" to produce any one of the
six regularly scheduled titles, the final product still means we are limited.

Granted... I believe I understand that Gemstone works very hard to balance all the factors together to put
out a product that they believe will both sell and be profitable. I really appreciate the work that goes on
behind the scenes, the recoloring, the editting for language and content and format, the sifting through
material that is believed would be marketable in the US, etc... I guess, it's just that I'm both happy and
sad at the same time... I'm grateful for what is produced... I just want MORE new, but I know it needs to be
balanced by all the factors I listed and probably many others, including legal issues, etc.

So, if you look at the list again, Lars, you'll note, it consists of all NEW characters to the US audience
and a boat-load of potentially interesting stories.

I'm excited about the coming of Scarpa's "Delta Dimension" which will both present more Scarpa storytelling
here and introduce a brand new continuing character! The problem, for me, is that this sort of thing only
happens very rarely. I mean, I've know Atomo for decades, own many comics from various European markets
which present different stories with him, but he is only NOW, in the later half of 2006 finally finding his
way to the US.

Again, I know there are a variety of good (and probably some bad) reasons for that, but it's just a bit
frustrating, again, for ME, as a longtime fan to wait this long.

So yes, I had a long list of things and characters I'd like to see published here in the US. I don't
apologize for that list. I love Disney Comics and I especially love seeing NEW characters and concepts mixed
with the old explored. The Foreign Disney market has capitalized on innovative new (supporting) characters
for decades, I'm just glad they are finally, if slowly, making their way to our shores.

So yes, Lars, you can add the Kitchen Sink to that list if it'll make for an interesting new story for the
US marketplace.

Lars, I was only answering your comment in my defense, and not annoyed in the least by your making it, but
it did provide me with an opportunity to step up on my Soapbox! :-)

Thank you Gemstone and everyone behind the scenes for all the hard work you are doing and the obstacles you
face in order to even attempt to please such a hard-to-please, outspoken fan like me. I really DO appreciate
what you are doing.

Speaking of Lars :-D, he also said:
> Rich wrote:
>
> > Mortimer Mouse = Montmorency Rodent
>
> No, not really. Not in the beginning, anyway. Although these
> days the two characters have indeed (and unfortunately)
> been merged into one.

Why "unfortunately"? Even if there was an intention on Floyd Gottfredson's part to create an independent
character from "Mickey's Rival" Mortimer Mouse, the two are redundantly similar in nearly every respect. If
it's an arguement that they had some visual or story differences, then we could/should say there were many
different Mickey Mouses, Goofy/Dippy Dawgs, Donald Ducks, Clarabelle Cows, etc. There was very little in
the way of evolution between "Mickey's Rival" and "Love Trouble"... the two characters looked, acted and
were motivated in the same manner. And another piece of evidence, in my mind, that links the two named
characters together is that even the Early Disney comics seemed to believe they were the same character as
was evidenced in "Mortimer Rodent" from WDC&S #67 (Apr. 1946) in "The Copper's Catch".

Mortimer Mouse = Mortimer Rodent = Montmorency Rodent.

I'd even say that "Mortimer Mouse" is probably his "real" name, while "Montmorency Rodent (pronounced "Ro-
dawn") is his attempt to have a High Society wealthy-sounding name as a way to further impress Minnie. As
we learned, he only DRESSES and ACTS like he's rich, but he's really NOT. He's a fake and a jerk.

Thanks,

Rich
(Email removed)

---- Msg sent via CWNet - http://www.cwnet.com/

> Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 15:49:16 +0200
> From: Per Starb?ck

>> http://stp.ling.uu.se/~starback/dcml/pointers.html
[quote]As you can see at the bottom of the page it is last updated in 2001,
so like a big part of the web it is severely outdated. Like many other old
parts of the web it can sometimes be partly useful anyway, so it's generally
better to keep it than to remove it completely. If nothing else, the state
of affairs in 2001 can be rather interesting to see now.
[/quote]
I agree it's interesting to see how internet looked 5 years ago. If you want
to keep the pages that way as an historical impression, then you have have a
clear vision why they are there. Looking at the pages as a visitor, from the
outside, they might as well be there because someone forgot to delete them.

Hearing news about you going away from DCML and DDB, I'm interested in
knowing what you will leave behind, and if there's someone taking care of
it.

[quote]
If you just want fresh information you can certainly find it elsewhere. Old
parts of the web will fade away by being less and less googleable, so it's
generally not really a problem. I haven't checked, but I would assume that
the google ranking of the page you referred to is really low now.
[/quote]
The pages are an introduction and explanation of DCML. If the google ranking
of the page is really low now, it could mean that only few people are
getting to know DCML nowadays. My solution is to have new DCML-pages at a
different URL, to which the old pages can refer. And I'm very willing to
help updating the information.

What I prefer most is a Wikipedia-like structure to which more people can
contribute at once. I think the system of having a club (DCML) where one
person (Per Starb?ck) do all the work is old-fashioned and unfair. Unless
you insist on doing it all alone.
So, what I would like to know is: If people are willing to support your
maintainance work, would you accept that?

In the past I've already contributed to the DCML-webpages, via you, and I'm
willing to do more. I think DCML needs an updated website, which can exist
at a different URL if you prefer. Then we'll have both an historical exhibit
and an updated DCML-website.

[quote]
Today I updated NAFS(k)'s Mailman to the latest version (2.1.8). Something
about the "scrubbing" was mentioned in the release notes, but I don't know
if the problem you refer to has been fixed with this. If you are interested
in working on this, get in contact with the Mailman people.
[/quote]
Yes, I'm interested in working on this. As with the PunBB software I also
have some questions about Mailman. Can you give an address where Mailman
people can be reached?

Via Google I found this page: http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/index.html
Is that the place to discuss Mailman, or do you have other adresseses? What
do you recommend?
And does it have to be Mailman, or are you open to other software?

[quote]
I will certainly not do any development of the list software myself, and I'm
sure the same goes for the rest of the NAFS(k) board as well, but if there
is a bug in Mailman you can help fix that will eventually be of benefit not
only for this list but for lots of other lists as well.
[/quote]
I know that a few programmers are willing to write software for DCML. Maybe
they and others are willing to do more. Important is that a lot of time and
effort would be saved if there's direct communication with Mailman people
and you.

With PunBB software there's a similar situation with updates and
developments. Maintainers can write their own software for it, but when they
do it outside of PunBB, they will have to re?nstall and reprogram their own
software whenever PunBB is updated. Therefore it's better to contact the
developers, so that improvements will become part of the official software
itself.

Now it's clear you are still updating the software, and that you're open to
new updates, it's a thankful and worthwhile task to contribute. Otherwise
people might be helping Mailman and then see that DCML is suddenly running
on other software, or not running at all. That's why I want to be certain
about the status of DCML and its software.

[quote]
Dani?l has also written a lot about the moderation here and writes several
times of "The Moderator", meaning me. I introduced moderation before I
handed over the list to NAFS(k), because of an emergency situation that you
know about, so back then I was "The Moderator", but right now we are
actually two moderators from NAFS(k).
[/quote]
Who is the second moderater? What's his/her name? I think that if a place is
moderated, it should be clear who are the moderators. At McDuck there are
now two moderators, which both can be reached personally both in public and
in private. Their names are mentioned on each forum overview, as you can see
here: http://forum.mcduck.nl

At this moment here at DCML, at least one unknown person is judging our
contributions anonymously, and I think that's wrong. I think people should
be able to know who is looking over their emails. When I asked for blocking
a link mistake, last Saterday, I got an anonymous report which gave me some
eery Big Brother idea, despite the helpfulness. Because the report looked as
if being written by a machine. It's very alienating. I think mentioning at
least the moderator's first name would make the reports look more human and
understandable.

[quote]
If anything really hard to judge should come up we will refer to the whole
board, but no moderation has been necessary for a long time so it doesn't
feel like a big issue. That the list should continue to be watched like this
was one of the requirements that NAFS(k) had on accepting the list though.
My personal take was that I had got enough and would have preferred not to
be involved at all anymore, partly because now that I'm still here I guess
the break hasn't been that noticeable, and some people are still seeing it
as my list.
[/quote]
I would prefer it to be your list forever. I think the situation of you
leaving is awful. Would it make difference for you if most of the
maintenance would be taken care of by other people and that you can stay as
a retired maintainer? Currently the situation looks to me is if it's all or
nothing. I hope that there's an in-between option to keep you here, if
people would save you from having to do the work.

[quote]
But I still thought the continuation of the list was important enough that I
preferred to be a part of it over closing it down, and those seemed to be
the only options.
[/quote]
What do you mean? I don't understand what you are writing here.

[quote]
None of the above is really about Disney comics. I'm sorry about that. I
hope this will answer Dani?l's questions to his satisfaction so this
half-off-topic thread won't have to be continued.
[/quote]
If you think that talking about the status and future of DCML isn't
on-topic, then I think there should be a open DCML list for volunteers
willing to contribute to DCML. There's already the option of using McDuck
International for that. So, there are good possibilities for keeping the
technical stuff away from DCML, in case people are bothered by it. Just let
me know what you prefer.

Thanks for replying and my apologies for me being impossible in recent
emails. When I heard people complaining you were gone and unreachable, I
feared a doom scenario which I hope will never happen. Per Starb?ck leaving
us without even looking back. I know it's your right to leave at any moment,
but that is only even more frustrating. Especially after 14 years. I'm glad
that it's still possible to communicate about DCML's status. I've been very
cynical about that, until you wrote this reply.

If there's one thing we all have in common, it's the wish that DCML should
stay. So, I hope there will be many people willing to do some volunteering
for DCML.

Best,
Dani?l

P.S. There are still Mailman problems, after the update. Some higher ASCII
is being skipped in the digests (replaced by "?"-signs), and Jerryblake's
email got scrubbed.

Suddenly I'm curious. Did anyone *besides* Barks do this in thier stories
during the older days such as Murry or Strobl? Can anyone think of non Barks
artists/writers who did this either to thier own stories or even to Barks'?

I know Gottfredson did it many times during the course of ealier Mickey
Mouse strips but this was usually at the very beginning of the next story
being serialized. The best example being the immediate segue between "Mickey
Mouse on Sky Island" - Doctor Einmug shooting down Pegleg Pete's plane - and
"In Search of Jungle Treasure" where Pete winds up crashing comically
through Eli Squinch's roof. :)

This also leads me to another question - what was Barks's collaboration like
with other duck and mouse writers and artists during his time? Has he ever
spoken of Strobl or Murry or Fallberg or Taliaferro? His interaction with
other peers/editors is something that is not often spoke of. Especially when
characters he'd created began being used by others (Gladstone, Magica,
Scrooge)

Jonathan H. Gray

Rich wrote:

> Mortimer Mouse = Montmorency Rodent

No, not really. Not in the beginning, anyway. Although these
days the two characters have indeed (and unfortunately)
been merged into one.

> I'm still hoping to see Gideon McDuck (Scrooge's brother);
> Kildare Coot (Sgrizzo Papero); Bruto (Mickey's talking bird);
> Dugan Duck (Biquinho); Gloria (dal Brasile), Fethry's girlfriend;
> Trudy (Pete's moll); Super Daisy (Papernika) and, especially ,
> some of the nNEW Junior Woodchucks (Giovani Marmotte) stories
> featuring Moguls Bertie McGoose & Clarissa von Scout finally make
> their USA debut!

Hey, Rich, you forgot the kitchen sink! ;-)

Lars

DANIEL WROTE:

In panel 1.7 of the raffle turkey pet story (WDC 75), one of Donald's
nephews mentions his full name and possibly also the color of his cap: "The
blue streak you see next will be Huey Duck on his way to a raffle!"

AND I OFFER:

"Blue streak" is an American idiom that signifies anything moving at such
high speed to essentially appear as a blur, so it would not matter what
color clothing the individual was wearing. He would never be considered a
streak of any color but blue.

Dan