Author
Topic: Donald Duck Family by Jippes - June 2008
(72 messages)
WB
Donald Duck Family by Jippes - June 2008
Message 46 -
2008-04-03 at 06:09:59
So has anymore information been released about this book? Will it be a series of specials reprinting just the Barks redrawn JW/DD material or will it be reprints of his original things that have and haven't come stateside as well?
Hedberg
Donald Duck Family by Jippes - June 2008
Message 47 -
2008-04-03 at 07:28:08
Quote from user: Robb_KQuote from user: EBiQuote from user: EBiKing Scrooge the First: Daan Jippes has not redrawn this yet.
This was wrong, because the story is already printed (in the Scandinavian Carl Barks Collection #28). If someone is interested, it has got the code D D 2004-013, but we haven't got it in Inducks yet.
I had thought someone had told me that Daan had already finished it. I can't wait until it is published in Scandinavian regular comic books, so it can, afterwards, finally be printed in The Netherlands and USA.
I don't have the money (or the space) to buy the Danish Carl Barks collection. I will only get one volume 18, 19 or 20 (which I will have contributed to). I hope I won the lottery (so to speak), and it is Volume 18. But, even so, when I read the Danish, I can only understand what's generally going on, and thus, miss the jokes. So, I'd still want a version in a language I can really read and enjoy it.
You will probably get #19, but King $crooge the First is in # 28 as mentioned - see:
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/3922/king1jz3.jpg
(My youngest son, Anders, comparing Daan Jippes work with Carl Barks' sketches)
This was wrong, because the story is already printed (in the Scandinavian Carl Barks Collection #28). If someone is interested, it has got the code D D 2004-013, but we haven't got it in Inducks yet.
I had thought someone had told me that Daan had already finished it. I can't wait until it is published in Scandinavian regular comic books, so it can, afterwards, finally be printed in The Netherlands and USA.
I don't have the money (or the space) to buy the Danish Carl Barks collection. I will only get one volume 18, 19 or 20 (which I will have contributed to). I hope I won the lottery (so to speak), and it is Volume 18. But, even so, when I read the Danish, I can only understand what's generally going on, and thus, miss the jokes. So, I'd still want a version in a language I can really read and enjoy it.
You will probably get #19, but King $crooge the First is in # 28 as mentioned - see:
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/3922/king1jz3.jpg
(My youngest son, Anders, comparing Daan Jippes work with Carl Barks' sketches)
LadyQuackly
Donald Duck Family by Jippes - June 2008
Message 48 -
2008-06-21 at 19:01:18
Quote from user: Lars JensenQuote from user: LadyQuacklyQuote from user: Lars JensenNo, they say that Ludwig Von Drake is "dead" in *their* stories. In other words: Egmont's writers and artists are not allowed to use Ludwig in stories they make for Egmont. But Ludwig is still used in stories by other publishers, such as the Italians. And Egmont do publish those stories in Scandinavia, Germany etc.
Yeah...Don Rosa would have liked to use him in his own comics, but his editor(s) didn't like Ludwig and wouldn't allow it. It was also Rosa who suggested that Ludwig married Matilda McDuck, thus officially making him Donald's uncle; but Egmont put the kibosh on that idea, too. A lot of Rosa fans liked the idea, though, and have held to it since then; it's even reflected in some of our fanfics. :)
According to the cartoons and comics, Ludwig is Donald's uncle, so it's already official. And, from what I've heard, in the TV cartoon "Kids is Kids" it is established that Ludwig is unmarried.
I saw "Kids is Kids" (I have the video in fact), and yep, Ludwig says he's a bachelor. Of course, that came out in the Sixties, I think; and the Rosa comics came out much later. The marriage thing was Rosa's own theory anyway; no other Disney Duck artist that I know of seems to have suggested it.
Yeah...Don Rosa would have liked to use him in his own comics, but his editor(s) didn't like Ludwig and wouldn't allow it. It was also Rosa who suggested that Ludwig married Matilda McDuck, thus officially making him Donald's uncle; but Egmont put the kibosh on that idea, too. A lot of Rosa fans liked the idea, though, and have held to it since then; it's even reflected in some of our fanfics. :)
According to the cartoons and comics, Ludwig is Donald's uncle, so it's already official. And, from what I've heard, in the TV cartoon "Kids is Kids" it is established that Ludwig is unmarried.
I saw "Kids is Kids" (I have the video in fact), and yep, Ludwig says he's a bachelor. Of course, that came out in the Sixties, I think; and the Rosa comics came out much later. The marriage thing was Rosa's own theory anyway; no other Disney Duck artist that I know of seems to have suggested it.
Michiel P
Donald Duck Family by Jippes - June 2008
Message 49 -
2008-06-30 at 13:51:17
a) According to the cartoon "Kids is kids" (1961) Ludwig is a bachelor.
b) According to the story "The Family Tree Spree" (1962) Ludwig and Donald have common ancestors.
From b), it follows that c) Ludwig doesn't need to be married to be Donald's "uncle" (although maybe only in the loose sense of "senior male relative"), because they're already related.
"Kids is kids": http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0913583/
"Duckburg, USA" (Ludwig's first appearance in comics): http://coa.inducks.org/s.php?c=W+LVD+++1-02
"The Family Tree Spree": http://coa.inducks.org/story.php?c=W+LVD+++3-03
Synopsis of "The Family Tree Spree" @ http://goofy313g.free.fr/calisota_online/trees/ducktrees/index.html
Solutions offered to the problem of Ludwig's relation to Donald:
- Ludwig is Donald's great uncle (Daniel J. Neyer): http://nafsk.se/pipermail/dcml/2004-April/021389.html
- Ludwig is Donald's Grandpa's nephew (Don Rosa): http://nafsk.se/pipermail/dcml/2006-April/024089.html
b) According to the story "The Family Tree Spree" (1962) Ludwig and Donald have common ancestors.
From b), it follows that c) Ludwig doesn't need to be married to be Donald's "uncle" (although maybe only in the loose sense of "senior male relative"), because they're already related.
"Kids is kids": http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0913583/
"Duckburg, USA" (Ludwig's first appearance in comics): http://coa.inducks.org/s.php?c=W+LVD+++1-02
"The Family Tree Spree": http://coa.inducks.org/story.php?c=W+LVD+++3-03
Synopsis of "The Family Tree Spree" @ http://goofy313g.free.fr/calisota_online/trees/ducktrees/index.html
Solutions offered to the problem of Ludwig's relation to Donald:
- Ludwig is Donald's great uncle (Daniel J. Neyer): http://nafsk.se/pipermail/dcml/2004-April/021389.html
- Ludwig is Donald's Grandpa's nephew (Don Rosa): http://nafsk.se/pipermail/dcml/2006-April/024089.html
Robb_K
Donald Duck Family by Jippes - June 2008
Message 50 -
2008-06-30 at 14:34:26
Ludwig has a family name of Von Drake. He, must, therefore, be on Donald's mother's side of his family. He could Donald's mother's brother, or Donald's maternal grandmother's brother, and not have been married. I'd like to think that he is Donald's grandmother's brother. Grandma Duck is likely his fraternal grandmother, with his father having been her son. So Ludwig is not HER brother (and rightly so), as they are never mentioned as being siblings, nor do they behave as such.
Ramapith
Donald Duck Family by Jippes - June 2008
Message 51 -
2008-07-01 at 05:12:28
Quote from user: Robb_KLudwig has a family name of Von Drake. He, must, therefore, be on Donald's mother's side of his family.
Huh?
Are you implying that everyone on Donald's father's side has to have the last name Duck?
I'm completely confused!
Huh?
Are you implying that everyone on Donald's father's side has to have the last name Duck?
I'm completely confused!
Robb_K
Donald Duck Family by Jippes - June 2008
Message 52 -
2008-07-01 at 07:13:58
Quote from user: ramapithQuote from user: Robb_KLudwig has a family name of Von Drake. He, must, therefore, be on Donald's mother's side of his family.
Huh?
Are you implying that everyone on Donald's father's side has to have the last name Duck?
I'm completely confused!
Sorry, I think you may be right that he is a more distant relative than Donald's grandmother's brother. I remember now in the first Ludwig Von Drake dell comic book's first story (drawn by Tony Strobl) that someone said that Ludwig was a distant relative of Donald. As a great uncle, he could be Grandma Duck's brother, and Grandma Duck had married into the Duck family. Or, he could be Donald's great, great uncle, and had been a brother of a woman who had married into Donald's Duck line. Ludwig could also be Donald's mother's brother. But, I doubt that Donald's mother was an Austrian immigrant. Ludwig is defined as a bachelor. So, we assume that he was never married. Otherwise he'd have been described as a divorcée or widower. Given that assumption, he couldn't have married into Donald's family, himself.
So, it seems most likely to me, that Ludwig is one of Donald's grandmother's brothers.
Huh?
Are you implying that everyone on Donald's father's side has to have the last name Duck?
I'm completely confused!
Sorry, I think you may be right that he is a more distant relative than Donald's grandmother's brother. I remember now in the first Ludwig Von Drake dell comic book's first story (drawn by Tony Strobl) that someone said that Ludwig was a distant relative of Donald. As a great uncle, he could be Grandma Duck's brother, and Grandma Duck had married into the Duck family. Or, he could be Donald's great, great uncle, and had been a brother of a woman who had married into Donald's Duck line. Ludwig could also be Donald's mother's brother. But, I doubt that Donald's mother was an Austrian immigrant. Ludwig is defined as a bachelor. So, we assume that he was never married. Otherwise he'd have been described as a divorcée or widower. Given that assumption, he couldn't have married into Donald's family, himself.
So, it seems most likely to me, that Ludwig is one of Donald's grandmother's brothers.
Michiel P
Donald Duck Family by Jippes - June 2008
Message 53 -
2008-07-01 at 10:11:09
I haven't read "The Family Tree Spree" and must base my assumptions on Gilles Maurice's description of its plot:
Quote:In Tony Strobl's and John Liggera's story "The Family Tree Spree", from "Ludwig Von Drake" #3, Donald Duck shows to Ludwig von Drake his family tree, that has been made by a swindler who made him believe he had very prestigious ancestors. Then Ludwig builds Donald's family tree himself ("Look! Your only ancestors who weren't simple mortals were a ruffian and a pseudo-scientist who wanted to prove that Earth wasn't round!"). Eventually, Ludwig realises he's from the same family and both of them decide to dig a hole and bury the trees in it...
http://goofy313g.free.fr/calisota_online/trees/ducktrees/index.html
Gilles also provides scans of two panels from the story:
http://goofy313g.free.fr/calisota_online/trees/ducktrees/treeststrobl2us.jpg
http://goofy313g.free.fr/calisota_online/trees/ducktrees/treestrobl2.html
From "The Family Tree Spree", it follows that a) Donald and Ludwig have common ancestors and b) at least one of these ancestors is named Duck (Columbust Duck, see picture).
So Ludwig is related to Donald on the Duck side of his family. Presumably Ludwig's mother was a Duck.
Quote:In Tony Strobl's and John Liggera's story "The Family Tree Spree", from "Ludwig Von Drake" #3, Donald Duck shows to Ludwig von Drake his family tree, that has been made by a swindler who made him believe he had very prestigious ancestors. Then Ludwig builds Donald's family tree himself ("Look! Your only ancestors who weren't simple mortals were a ruffian and a pseudo-scientist who wanted to prove that Earth wasn't round!"). Eventually, Ludwig realises he's from the same family and both of them decide to dig a hole and bury the trees in it...
http://goofy313g.free.fr/calisota_online/trees/ducktrees/index.html
Gilles also provides scans of two panels from the story:
http://goofy313g.free.fr/calisota_online/trees/ducktrees/treeststrobl2us.jpg
http://goofy313g.free.fr/calisota_online/trees/ducktrees/treestrobl2.html
From "The Family Tree Spree", it follows that a) Donald and Ludwig have common ancestors and b) at least one of these ancestors is named Duck (Columbust Duck, see picture).
So Ludwig is related to Donald on the Duck side of his family. Presumably Ludwig's mother was a Duck.
Robb_K
Donald Duck Family by Jippes - June 2008
Message 54 -
2008-07-01 at 10:54:20
Quote from user: Michiel PI haven't read "The Family Tree Spree" and must base my assumptions on Gilles Maurice's description of its plot:
Quote:In Tony Strobl's and John Liggera's story "The Family Tree Spree", from "Ludwig Von Drake" #3, Donald Duck shows to Ludwig von Drake his family tree, that has been made by a swindler who made him believe he had very prestigious ancestors. Then Ludwig builds Donald's family tree himself ("Look! Your only ancestors who weren't simple mortals were a ruffian and a pseudo-scientist who wanted to prove that Earth wasn't round!"). Eventually, Ludwig realises he's from the same family and both of them decide to dig a hole and bury the trees in it...
http://goofy313g.free.fr/calisota_online/trees/ducktrees/index.html
Gilles also provides scans of two panels from the story:
http://goofy313g.free.fr/calisota_online/trees/ducktrees/treeststrobl2us.jpg
http://goofy313g.free.fr/calisota_online/trees/ducktrees/treestrobl2.html
From "The Family Tree Spree", it follows that a) Donald and Ludwig have common ancestors and b) at least one of these ancestors is named Duck (Columbust Duck, see picture).
So Ludwig is related to Donald on the Duck side of his family. Presumably Ludwig's mother was a Duck.
As Daisy has the family name, "Duck", and she is not in his immediate family, we can assume that she is a distant cousin on Donald's father's side, or a cousin by marriage, or totally unrelated, with the same surname.
With Ludwig, we can make the same assumptions. We CAN'T really know whether or not he is from Donald's mother's or his father's side of his family, as his mother or grandmother or great grandmother could have married into The Duck family. The reason he has a name different from "Duck" is because his father came from a line that was not direct from the "Ducks". But we can't know which side he came from, because there are no authoritative stories which provide that information. I would not want to use some obscure Italian 1970s or 1980s or 1990s story (if such exists) to define Ludwig's relationship with the other Ducks.
Quote:In Tony Strobl's and John Liggera's story "The Family Tree Spree", from "Ludwig Von Drake" #3, Donald Duck shows to Ludwig von Drake his family tree, that has been made by a swindler who made him believe he had very prestigious ancestors. Then Ludwig builds Donald's family tree himself ("Look! Your only ancestors who weren't simple mortals were a ruffian and a pseudo-scientist who wanted to prove that Earth wasn't round!"). Eventually, Ludwig realises he's from the same family and both of them decide to dig a hole and bury the trees in it...
http://goofy313g.free.fr/calisota_online/trees/ducktrees/index.html
Gilles also provides scans of two panels from the story:
http://goofy313g.free.fr/calisota_online/trees/ducktrees/treeststrobl2us.jpg
http://goofy313g.free.fr/calisota_online/trees/ducktrees/treestrobl2.html
From "The Family Tree Spree", it follows that a) Donald and Ludwig have common ancestors and b) at least one of these ancestors is named Duck (Columbust Duck, see picture).
So Ludwig is related to Donald on the Duck side of his family. Presumably Ludwig's mother was a Duck.
As Daisy has the family name, "Duck", and she is not in his immediate family, we can assume that she is a distant cousin on Donald's father's side, or a cousin by marriage, or totally unrelated, with the same surname.
With Ludwig, we can make the same assumptions. We CAN'T really know whether or not he is from Donald's mother's or his father's side of his family, as his mother or grandmother or great grandmother could have married into The Duck family. The reason he has a name different from "Duck" is because his father came from a line that was not direct from the "Ducks". But we can't know which side he came from, because there are no authoritative stories which provide that information. I would not want to use some obscure Italian 1970s or 1980s or 1990s story (if such exists) to define Ludwig's relationship with the other Ducks.
Roger North
Donald Duck Family by Jippes - June 2008
Message 55 -
2008-07-01 at 13:53:45
I'd like to think that Ludwig is Donald's uncle by being married to Scrooge's sister Matilda. It makes more sense than any of your theories. No offense to any of you. As for Daisy being related to Donald. That's not true at all she just has the same last name by coincidence even though she is related to Donald's nephews on their father's side of the family while Donald is related to them on their mother's side.
SweTur
Donald Duck Family by Jippes - June 2008
Message 56 -
2008-07-01 at 15:31:09
Quote from user: Roger NorthI'd like to think that Ludwig is Donald's uncle by married to Scrooge's sister Matilda. It makes more sense than any of your theories. No offense to any of you. As for Daisy being related to Donald. That's not true at all she just has the same last name by coincidence even though she is related to Donald's nephews on their father's side of the family while Donald is related to them on their mother's side.
I agree, even though Rosa has played around a bit with Ludwig's background and perhaps taken the term uncle/aunt too literate the result is believable and logical.
I agree, even though Rosa has played around a bit with Ludwig's background and perhaps taken the term uncle/aunt too literate the result is believable and logical.
Michiel P
Donald Duck Family by Jippes - June 2008
Message 57 -
2008-07-01 at 17:04:24
Considering Ludwig's marital status:
a) Ludwig is Donald's uncle
b) Ludwig is a bachelor
c) Ludwig and Donald have common ancestors whose last name is Duck
i) Ludwig isn't married to Matilda, because it has been established he is a bachelor
ii) Ludwig doesn't need to be married to Matilda to be Donald's uncle, because they're already related
Don Rosa's solution simply doesn't jibe with previously established facts. Moreover, this supposed marriage hasn't been shown anywhere in comics. I think Rob Klein and I can agree on this one.
a) Ludwig is Donald's uncle
b) Ludwig is a bachelor
c) Ludwig and Donald have common ancestors whose last name is Duck
i) Ludwig isn't married to Matilda, because it has been established he is a bachelor
ii) Ludwig doesn't need to be married to Matilda to be Donald's uncle, because they're already related
Don Rosa's solution simply doesn't jibe with previously established facts. Moreover, this supposed marriage hasn't been shown anywhere in comics. I think Rob Klein and I can agree on this one.
Michiel P
Donald Duck Family by Jippes - June 2008
Message 58 -
2008-07-01 at 17:18:11
Considering Ludwig's relation to Donald
a) Ludwig is Donald's uncle
b) Ludwig is a bachelor
c) Ludwig and Donald have common ancestors whose last name is Duck
i) Ludwig can't be a brother of Donald's father, whose last name is Duck and not Von Drake
ii) Ludwig can't be a brother of Donald's mother, whose last name is McDuck, according to Carl Barks
iii) Ludwig can't be a brother of Donald's paternal grandfather, whose last name is Duck
iv) Ludwig can't be a brother of Grandma Duck, Donald's paternal grandmother, because there's nothing in the comics to suggest that they're siblings
v) Ludwig can't be a brother of Donald's maternal grandfather, whose last name is McDuck
vi) Ludwig could be a brother of Donald's maternal grandmother, but this is contradicted by the fact that Donald and Ludwig have common ancestors on the Duck side of the family, i.e. Donald's father's side.
vii) Ludwig is neither Donald's uncle, nor his great uncle, but only an uncle in the loose sense of "senior male relative"
This is all pretty straightforward, isn't it?
Quote from user: Robb_KWith Ludwig, we can make the same assumptions. We CAN'T really know whether or not he is from Donald's mother's or his father's side of his family, as his mother or grandmother or great grandmother could have married into The Duck family. The reason he has a name different from "Duck" is because his father came from a line that was not direct from the "Ducks". But we can't know which side he came from, because there are no authoritative stories which provide that information.
I agree that the Duck Family Tree could or indeed must have branched in many different directions. Ludwig and Donald have common ancestors, but then maybe Ludwig's ancestors' line branched and mavbe later even intertwined with the McDucks? Who knows on which side of the family Ludwig belongs?
But why shouldn't we go for a simpler solution? Ludwig's and Donald's Duck ancestors certainly point that way. Why don't we choose to have Ludwig simply on Donald's (grand)father's side of the family?
a) Ludwig is Donald's uncle
b) Ludwig is a bachelor
c) Ludwig and Donald have common ancestors whose last name is Duck
i) Ludwig can't be a brother of Donald's father, whose last name is Duck and not Von Drake
ii) Ludwig can't be a brother of Donald's mother, whose last name is McDuck, according to Carl Barks
iii) Ludwig can't be a brother of Donald's paternal grandfather, whose last name is Duck
iv) Ludwig can't be a brother of Grandma Duck, Donald's paternal grandmother, because there's nothing in the comics to suggest that they're siblings
v) Ludwig can't be a brother of Donald's maternal grandfather, whose last name is McDuck
vi) Ludwig could be a brother of Donald's maternal grandmother, but this is contradicted by the fact that Donald and Ludwig have common ancestors on the Duck side of the family, i.e. Donald's father's side.
vii) Ludwig is neither Donald's uncle, nor his great uncle, but only an uncle in the loose sense of "senior male relative"
This is all pretty straightforward, isn't it?
Quote from user: Robb_KWith Ludwig, we can make the same assumptions. We CAN'T really know whether or not he is from Donald's mother's or his father's side of his family, as his mother or grandmother or great grandmother could have married into The Duck family. The reason he has a name different from "Duck" is because his father came from a line that was not direct from the "Ducks". But we can't know which side he came from, because there are no authoritative stories which provide that information.
I agree that the Duck Family Tree could or indeed must have branched in many different directions. Ludwig and Donald have common ancestors, but then maybe Ludwig's ancestors' line branched and mavbe later even intertwined with the McDucks? Who knows on which side of the family Ludwig belongs?
But why shouldn't we go for a simpler solution? Ludwig's and Donald's Duck ancestors certainly point that way. Why don't we choose to have Ludwig simply on Donald's (grand)father's side of the family?
Michiel P
Donald Duck Family by Jippes - June 2008
Message 59 -
2008-07-01 at 17:44:55
Quote from user: Robb_KI would not want to use some obscure Italian 1970s or 1980s or 1990s story (if such exists) to define Ludwig's relationship with the other Ducks.
Provided their solution is in concordance with previously established facts, I don't see why not. And it's not as if the American originals are always in agreement on relations between Ducks. HDL's mother is either Donald's cousin Della or Donald's sister Dumbella, for example.
Quote from user: Roger NorthAs for Daisy being related to Donald. That's not true at all she just has the same last name by coincidence ...
We haven't got much to go about, have we? There's nothing in the comics to prove either point. In family trees, she's either included or it is made clear she's from a different family. Both are acceptable theories.
Quote from user: Roger North... even though she is related to Donald's nephews on their father's side of the family while Donald is related to them on their mother's side.
There's nothing in the comics to suggest that Daisy is related to Donald's nephews. They DO call her aunt, but that may only be because she's their uncle's regular girlfriend. Daisy's relationship to Donald's nephews is a fancy of Don Rosa which didn't make it into comics. Therefore, it has no official status and cannot be considered a fact.
Provided their solution is in concordance with previously established facts, I don't see why not. And it's not as if the American originals are always in agreement on relations between Ducks. HDL's mother is either Donald's cousin Della or Donald's sister Dumbella, for example.
Quote from user: Roger NorthAs for Daisy being related to Donald. That's not true at all she just has the same last name by coincidence ...
We haven't got much to go about, have we? There's nothing in the comics to prove either point. In family trees, she's either included or it is made clear she's from a different family. Both are acceptable theories.
Quote from user: Roger North... even though she is related to Donald's nephews on their father's side of the family while Donald is related to them on their mother's side.
There's nothing in the comics to suggest that Daisy is related to Donald's nephews. They DO call her aunt, but that may only be because she's their uncle's regular girlfriend. Daisy's relationship to Donald's nephews is a fancy of Don Rosa which didn't make it into comics. Therefore, it has no official status and cannot be considered a fact.
Roger North
Donald Duck Family by Jippes - June 2008
Message 60 -
2008-07-01 at 19:13:34
I'm just saying what I choose to believe. You don't have to agree with me.