Keskustelujen arkisto

For Steve Back:
Hey, I don't mind someone disagreeing with me! And it's also
unfair to say I look askance at all groups except MY FANS... that's not
a very large group and since I don't care for my own work that much, I
think I look a bit askance at them, too.
But I do know that I've met many types of Disney fans and I've
watched these hobbies develop from how they were in the mid-60s to what
they are like and who they attract nowadays, and I don't think I'm off
the mark. I wish I could demonstrate by waving my hand and making all
Disney toys and comics and artwork and ANIMATION CELS worthless as of
(bing) now... and we'll see how many "fans" show up at the next
convention. I wish I could do the same for all old comics -- and, heck,
ALL hobbies based on used goodies everywhere. And I'd restore the way of
things to the pre-Price-Guide era when the only collectors of this or
that were the people with an honest interest.
Then I'd start working on all the housewives who think Chip 'n'
Dale are "just the cutest things". Bwah-ha-ha-ha!
But I'll back down and say I've never been to a Disneyana
convention... I've only talked to all the Disneyana collectors and
dealers that spread out through all the flea markets and comic shows and
Sotheby's auctions of the country. So they are not representative of the
folks at a Disneyana convention? How so?

Harry:
The balloon in "Voodoo Hoodoo" was not in the form of your note.
It wasn't "Hey, Bop! Bop, what is...". It was "Hey, Bop, Bop! What
is..." That seems clear that the fellas name is "Bop Bop" or (for
whatever reason) "Bop, Bop". I guess the reason that I need to bounce
around such trivia is that I might have needed to use that guy (?) in my
"Life" series, at which time it would have become very important to
figure this out!
And, Harry, there's nothing wrong with your English! If my
wife's high school students could only read or write English as well as
you, we'd be in good (better) shape. That's right -- as a group, I look
askance at semi-literates.

Well, I already mailed off a rant on the state of the comic book
industry (for which I apologize if it seemed a bit *too* rantish..),
and the question that I'm going to ask in this message may seem
somewhat silly, but I assume that the more traffic in disney-comics,
the better. :-)

When I first read Uncle Scrooge comics in my youth, I heard Scrooge in
my head with an American accent. Now that Disney has decreed that
Scrooge has a Scottish accent (and has produced films in which
Scrooge has this accent), I've actually started to "hear" Scrooge
with the occasionaly Scottish accent when I read the comics.
Sometimes I am surprised by this, as I still remember Scrooge with his
old voice.

I'd be curious to know how Don Rosa and other people involved with the
comic book think of Scrooge's accent, and if there is a general
preference...

===========================================================================
"I am Scrooge McDuck of the clan McDuck. There can be only one!"
-- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --
mark a. semich mas at csa.bu.edu
===========================================================================

Dear Folks,

*Very* brief, now... (Gotta get to badminton club)

When Uncle Scrooge appeared in the 1967 cartoon "Scrooge
McDuck and Money" (boy, what a terrible cartoon!), he had a Scottish
accent very similar to what he's got in recent cartoon appearances.

Disney's banned stories really do have virtually no effect on
European publications... particularly the Gottfredson stuff. Droves
of that is banned over here, but you can get it all in Germany and
Italy up to about 1938. The two most offensive stories -- "In Search
of Jungle Treasure" and "An Education for Thursday" have both been
reprinted in recent years, the former one in 1990.

Disney doesn't always have their eyes open *here* either.
Gladstone was not allowed to use the Gottfredson story, "Island in the
Sky," because the supporting hero, Dr. Einmug, was German. Cris
Palomino *snuck* it by, I'm led to believe, when it appeared in WDC&S
#582-83. My guess is that if Gladstone asked to print it now, they
would meet with a refusal.

Same thing with "Darkest Africa" -- as you may or may not
know, Gladstone couldn't even get permission to use a *censored*
version of that, but Bob Foster threw it in and was prepared for a big
fight after it went to press. It did, and nobody noticed.

Your friend,

David Gerstein

To Mark Semich:
You didn't really drive all the way to Chicago just to see me,
did you? If so, you should have spent lots more time seein' me.
I mistakenly gave you the impression that I've been to a
Disneyana convention and had a bad experience. My little stories of odd
experiences were from comics conventions. If I ever appeared at a
Disneyana convention, I would be a total unknown since I do those comic
books that the "Disneyana" fans don't know have ever existed... or if
they did, they must be done by Disney... and if they weren't, they
couldn't be any good because Disney is so wonderful and glorious and
marvi. Actually, for some reason I neglected to address that aspect in
my hurry to reply last time -- but the thing that might irk me the most
about the people in those Disney clubs and at those conventions is their
blind devotion to Disney as some sort of high-water mark for all earthly
goodness and light. Their devotion is so little based on defining
quality but on just loving all things Disney. I tried a few of their BBS
from time to time, but my stomach is quickly turned by this attitude as
well as all the pin-back button collectors and people bragging to each
other how they went to Disneyland for the 237th time (rather than going
someplace REAL for a change of pace, like a mountain or forest
someplace).
But I can't believe how I overlooked Steve's own words... of his
actual concious admission that Disney fans overlook Disney's misdeeds
because, whatever Disney has done, it's made Disney a SUCCESS and that's
the important thing. This is a definition of moral corruption. It's this
kind of thinking on a grand scale that makes the American morality what
a mess it is today. The end justifies the means since we can overlook
what we wish to laud the results. It's exactly this sort of attitude
that allows Disney to continue to cheat and bully freelance artists like
myself. If Disneyans fans would stand up to Disney as they and many
others should, and not simply IGNORE Disney's misdemeanors, maybe things
would change... and Disney would STILL be just as successful, but not as
evil. This sort of attitude makes the lives of people like me very
uncomfortable and far less rewarding than we deserve... so it's easy to
see how I could deeply resent that sort of thinking.
But apart from that, my regard for Disneyana collectors comes
from meetings with them outside of Disneyana conventions. One very good
example is found in the books by some obscure (?) writer of collectibles
guides named David Longest. He has moved into writing books about Disney
toys and claims that he does so only because he is a devoted Disney fan
and collector and loves everything about Disney and how Disney is the
fulfillment of all our dreams and hopes and purity and light and... you
can imagine the hoaky, flowery adoration that these collectors lavish on
themselves as if they are supporting something just this side of heaven.
Then he goes on to say, after all that, that real Disney fans all know
not to collect any Disney toys newer than the 30s since they just aren't
very rare and aren't worth having around since they'll never be
valuable. It's painfully obvious what this guy is REALLY interested in.
BUT-- Mark asked me some other questions. $crooge's accent?
Disney says $crooge has a Scottish accent? So? Did Disney have anything
at all with the creation or first 40 years of $crooge's existance? No.
So whatever Disney has to say about $crooge is THEIR "DuckTales"
Scrooge, not THE $crooge of the comic books, the REAL $crooge.
Like everyone else, $crooge and Donald and HD&L have always
spoken in my mind with normal voices. But I was forced to deal with this
accent stuff in my "Life of $crooge" series; in part 1 I have $crooge's
family speaking with heavy accents, and $crooge speaking with a slight
accent. But I show that at age 13 he leaves Scotland and grows up as a
globetrotter, mostly in the English speaking areas of America,
Australia, South Africa, Canada, and such. The adult $crooge has NO
Scottish accent.
And, Mark, where did you get that line "I am $McD of the clan
McD... there can be no other"???
Also, you said my art on "War of the Wendigo" was "not
outstanding"... which is fine. But you can't say that without telling me
how or why or where it was not-so-good so I can improve! Oh, wait...
that was Fredrik who said that! So the question goes to Fredrik!
And Fredrik askes when I started putting my "D.U.C.K."
dedication in my comics. It was in the last panel of the first one I
did, "The Son of the Sun"... but Gladstone removed it since it looked as
if it might be a signature. However, when they used that story in
certain foreign countries, you can see the dedication still there.
That dedication has been in every story I've ever done, in the
splash (first) panel after the first 2 stories... but early on at both
Gladstone and Egmont the editors removed it. Now that I hide it and have
explained what it is, it is no longer removed. I also started putting it
on the covers as well, beginning with the covers I did for Disney Comics
a few years ago.
Any covers after that time, or any stories where you CAN'T
locate the dedication, just ask me and I'll either tell you where to
look or tell you it's not there to be found.

There....that was a nice long letter. Now I leave for a week in
Oslo to meet with all sorts of dignitaries and ambassadors and have
signing sessions at major stores and all manner of stuff that the wild
Norwegian editor has arranged! I'll have lots of digests waiting for me
when I get home, eh?

Sorry if this is common knowledge, but I haven't been able to find
this out:

I've heard tale of a duck fanzine called something along the lines of
the "Duckburg Gazette" or the "Duckburg Times." Does anyone know if
it still exists, what it's about, or how one could contact its
publishers?

===========================================================================
"I am Scrooge McDuck of the clan McDuck. There can be only one!"
-- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --
mark a. semich mas at csa.bu.edu
===========================================================================

First, a brief aside. Don Rosa says that at comics conventions he is
often asked:
> .. the question "Which do you do first... write the story or draw it?"
> (which I am asked very frequently), I always answer "First I do all
> the artwork, filling a few dozen pages with haphazard drawings... then
> I go back and think up a story that will fit the random illustrations.
> This usually satisfies the questioner.
>
Of course it does. The fan-boy probably got an identical answer, in
complete seriousness, when he asked that same question of the creators
at the Image Comics tent. Now on to the subject of this posting...

This group has had discussions about at least 3 instances of classic
duck material being forbidden to be reprinted, or at least required to
be altered, on account of changing attitudes towards racial minorities
(In Darkest Africa, apparently anything at all with Indians in it, and
now Voodoo Hoodoo). I would like to bring to your attention one more
case in which a Barks story had to be edited before being reprinted
(by Disney Comics). This was "The Terrible Turkey", a harmless bit of
fluff about Donald's going hunting to shoot a turkey for Thanksgiving
dinner. You will recall that in the original, after many amusing failed
attempts, Donald finally shoots a bird and takes it to someone to have
it cleaned and plucked for cooking. The punchline is that when Thanks-
giving dinnertime arrives, the person to whom he took the bird to be
prepared tells Donald that his meal will be inedible because the
"turkey" is actually an eagle! Now in the USA, killing an eagle, even
by mistake, is a serious crime. (I think this is true of all types of
eagles and not just the American national symbol, the bald eagle.)
Someone at Disney apparently decided that they couldn't let Donald
commit an offense punishable with a lengthy prison sentence, so they
changed the word "eagle" to "quail". I have 3 questions. (1) Was this
done because in these environmentally sensitive times, accidentally
killing a member of an endangered species is considered a more serious
offense than the deliberate mischief and acts of aggrevated assault in
which Donald is usually involved, especially with neighbor Jones?
(2) A "quail"???? First of all, how could a bird the size of a quail
be mistaken for a turkey? If Donald had shot a quail, he certainly
wouldn't have taken it in to be prepared as a meal sufficient for 4
people! And even if he did, what's wrong with eating a quail for
Thanksgiving dinner (other than its small size)? The joke about the
eagle was of course that it was much too tough, but quails are just
fine to eat. Who at Disney Comics made such a dumb substitution of
"quail" in place of "eagle"? The punchline to the whole story was
thereby rendered completely meaningless (unless you were familiar
with the original). If they felt compelled to come up with a substitute
for "eagle", why didn't they use "buzzard" or some such? (3) When this
story is reprinted in Europe, is it still an "eagle" there or does
Disney require it to be edited? Is killing an eagle punished as harshly
in Europe as it is in the USA, and does that matter to Disney?

One final, completely irrelevant, note. A number of people on this list
have been telling us a bit about themselves lately, and I'm getting
depressed. Will someone please tell me (lie, if necessary) that I'm
not the oldest person in this group? I'm 44, and I learned how to read
from following the words and pictures in WDC&S in the early 1950s. Am
I now considered too old still to be a fan of "funny books", as we used
to call them?

Wilmer Rivers
rivers at seismo.css.gov

Mark asked about how we think Scrooge sounds:
> When I first read Uncle Scrooge comics in my youth, I heard Scrooge in
> my head with an American accent.

When I first read Uncle Scrooge comics in my youth he spoke Swedish so
I don't have much input here. I've never really thought about voices
for the characters though, and I can't remember any internal evidence
on anything about the characters' voices in the comics (like someone
hearing that Scrooge is from Scotland or someone having a hard time to
hear what Donald is saying).

Torsten:
> The easiest way to denote an accent in writing is to change da spellin' uv
> da letturz so dat da readurz kin undahstands dat chur writin' in, uh,
> di-uh-lekt, and not Uhmurican.

Such comic book spellings are not common at all in Sweden (I guess
they are afraid the kids won't learn to spell properly if they read
too much of it), but I think they add colour to the dialogues.
Interestingly enough some of those spellings really don't indicate any
substandard or non-standard pronuncation, like "sez" for "says", but
anyway the reader is supposed to understand that that speaker doesn't
speak very proper.

Note Scrooge speech in The Old Castle's Secret where Barks first
told us of Scrooge's Scottish heritage, by the way! He calls the boys
lads repeatedly, and says "aye" instead of yes.
-- "
Per Starback, Uppsala, Sweden. email: starback at student.docs.uu.se
"Take it easy, Scottie, ol' man! 'Tis me, Scrooge! The last McDuck!"

> Hi. I'm Ole Reichstein Nielsen, or just ROC (thats COMMANDER ROC to you!).

Hi there! Hmm, doesn't that come out as "ORC"?

> ... and recently started subscribing on Swedish Kalle Anka & C:o.
> Yesterday, my first Norwegian issue arrived. I'm Back.

What dedication! What on earth do you need Danish, Swedish, *and*
Norwegian issues for? They are almost the same anyway, right?

> I have indexes of all the Danish AA&Co, (up to '82 from "Carl Barks & Co.")
So this is Martin Olsen's "Det Store Index", right? Are there any
problems with spreading it?

(Ole has since sent me lots of files that will appear on the ftp
archive eventually. (That computer doesn't respond right now.)
Thanks!)

> More interestingly, it reveals that Gyro is based on the same
> character as Gus Goose. In 1937 Barks worked on a cartoon, 'The
> Interior Decorator.' Barks did part of the script and the storyboard,
> and made Gus the always-eater. The project was cancelled due to a weak
> story-line, though there were some good gags. Later Gus, who had
> gotten a lot fatter, appeared in 'Donald's Cousin Gus.' The original
> 'slim-line' version of Gus was later used as a model for Gyro. Well,
> it's news to me.

There are some storyboards for Interior Decorators in Carl Barks
Library, set II, but the Gus in them reminds me more of Gus than of
Gyro, even though I guess there are similarities. Anyway, I don't
have late issues of those German fanzines and I'm not sure what the
current address of D.O.N.A.L.D. is. Anyone know? (Otherwise I'll
look it up somewhere. I've been on my way to rejoin it for some time
anyway.)
-- "
Per Starback, Uppsala, Sweden. email: starback at student.docs.uu.se
"Life is but a gamble! Let flipism chart your ramble!"