Hi, Folks!
Mark presents his commentary "On a Silver Platter"
==== ======== === ========== === = ====== ========
"...I agree it's a very good story, but the basic idea looks
a lot like Barks' "Stranger than fiction"..."
When Rosa takes a plot that Barks, in his 1960s years of
decline, could have taken far better advantage of, and *takes* far
better advantage of it, we're supposed to support him! :-) Same goes
for Van Horn and "A Small Matter" (practically an insult to VH that
David Seidman paired it with the far worse "Have Gun, Will Dance" to
flaunt its similarity...).
Although maybe "Stranger than Fiction" would be a lot better
if those schmucks at Dell didn't cut out the story's ninth page to
make room for an advertisement!
And "Stranger than Fiction" was Barks' *own* attempt at
revising his earlier "Super Snooper" story, which brings this whole
conversation full circle.
Don on his work in Germany:
=== == === ==== == ========
"...[I'm in] touch with the German translation editor and I
think I just need to tell him what old copies I need. But if YOU have
this access to all the current issues, I sure would like it if you
bought an extra one for me whenever they use my stories -- and their
uses of this "Life of $" series should be coming fast as they catch up
to the other countries."
Now that summer is gone I again have no access to the German
issues without subscribing to them for a full year, something I'm
hesitant to do since Byron insists he'll be sending me Danish versions
of everything beginning soon. But if he doesn't send 'em I may just
do that.
Even if I did have access to the German issues as at home, I
couldn't buy second copies only of those with your stories. Werner's
Delicatessen and Imports only gets *one* German MICKY MAUS per week,
and I'm *required* to buy it because it is I who put in the standing
weekly order for it. I could put in an order for a second
subscription to get you the issues you want, Don, but you'd have to
get them *all*, not just those with your stories.
(Why, you are all asking, do I buy from Werner when at home
instead of subscribing, myself, when it nets the same results -- i. e.
that I have to purchase EVERYTHING?? Simple: Werner is a friend of
mine and I like to support his business any way I can... Santa Barbara
is *reeling* from the recession. Imagine a tourist-trap town with
very high rent suddenly suffering from low amounts of business.
Imagine the twerps who rent out the buildings refusing to lower the
rent because it's a *privilege* to do business in beautiful Santa
Barbara. You get the idea.)
Per on the Scrooge color scheme:
=== == === ======= ===== =======
"...Here are some data on the colour of Scrooge's coat
in some US's, in case anybody cares. :-)
Dell US 15, 16, 27: purple
US 28, 57: red..."
Thanks Per! Scrooge's coat is also purple in US 17 (and in
the reprint of that in Gladstone Album #1 which repeats the US 17
colors *exactly*, including errors).
It's green in the original printing of USOS 456.
So now we have a few stories where the coat is red... does he
have grey cuffs on the coat in any of those? In Europe the coat is
always red, too, but never with the Gladstone/Disney-style grey cuffs,
you'll notice.
Harry's own letter to me about MM
======= === ====== == == ===== ==
[I'm answering this here just to avoid writing a second
letter]
Sure I don't care if issues of Mickey Maandblad are used and
in slightly battered condition! I'd be DELIGHTED if used Gottfredson
comics other than Gladstone MMs were easy to find in this country!
The prices on Dells have gone through the roof.
I may have misstated the stories I needed: these being
Robinson Crusoe, MM Sails for Treasure Island, In Search of Jungle
Treasure and The Plumber's Helper. I think I left one of those out of
my list that I sent to you.
Looking *very much* forward to that package of albums from
you! Should reach me any day now! I approach the mailbox with such
great expectations... but alas, not yet. Thank you so much! BTW:
Are you interested in one of the items-to-be-traded being one of my
own comics? The most recent issue features:
DAVIDE in Horse Sense (A character a bit like a humanized
Donald Duck, with two nephews, is on a ranch trying to prove himself
an expert cowboy. Attempt at an early-Barks style)
MONK THE MONKEY AND FLATYPUS THE PLATYPUS (kinda like Mickey
and Goofy, an attempt at doing Gottfredson style circa 1936, and the
two are at the Olympics working as janitors)
PHINEAS T. BUTTERFLY (an attempt at a Walt Kelly type of
thing, an old rapscallion of a butterfly with a derby hat, cigar,
spats, and hick dialect, passing himself off as a kid to enter a
school competition).
Actually the stories aren't as derivative as I made them
sound... the characters are definitely individuals, but the *plots*
were purposely done as practice on Disney style plots. The book also
has two half-page strips in it, and a "Muddled Mother Goose" page
which is sort of my own continuation of the Disney Good Housekeeping
pages.
If anyone is interested in copies of this, I'm glad to trade
'em for things. The comic is 32 pages long.
That's all for now, folks.
David
"I know the croaking chorus of the FROGS of Aristophanes..."
<David.A.Gerstein at Williams.edu>
Author
Topic: 199310
(214 messages)
David A Gerstein
Disney-comics digest #124.
Message 106 -
1993-10-11 at 21:54:31
Chris Lawton
Ducks and Islamic culture
Message 107 -
1993-10-11 at 22:09:14
>I think I have mentioned in a previous posting that as a schoolboy I
>was quite intrigued by Tony Strobel's one-shot comic "Donald in Math-
>magics Land". I do wish Disney, or someone, would re-issue it so that
>a new generation of kids could experience the same fascination with
>mathematics that I felt upon reading it. Who knows, maybe they would
>also pick up a new-found respect for Donald Duck. Anyway, it should be
>noted that this comic, which traced the history of math from the ancient
>Greeks, paid appropriate tribute to Islamic contributions, especially
>the invention of "al jabr" (i.e., algebra). Maybe Disney should put
>this comic out again to help repair their image among Americans of
>Arabic descent, who protested against what they considered to be
>derogatory song lyrics (about life in Baghdad) in "Aladdin". (The
>protests were successful, since the lyrics were changed for the video
>release.)
>Wilmer Rivers
I, too, remember "Donald in Mathamagics Land" But I remember it as a
film.
What a pleasure it was to see this is available on video. I now own a copy
for myself and I've watched it several times. Ah, the memories! :)
I never know it was a comic! Which was first?
Chris Mickey's #1 Fan!! :) :)
>was quite intrigued by Tony Strobel's one-shot comic "Donald in Math-
>magics Land". I do wish Disney, or someone, would re-issue it so that
>a new generation of kids could experience the same fascination with
>mathematics that I felt upon reading it. Who knows, maybe they would
>also pick up a new-found respect for Donald Duck. Anyway, it should be
>noted that this comic, which traced the history of math from the ancient
>Greeks, paid appropriate tribute to Islamic contributions, especially
>the invention of "al jabr" (i.e., algebra). Maybe Disney should put
>this comic out again to help repair their image among Americans of
>Arabic descent, who protested against what they considered to be
>derogatory song lyrics (about life in Baghdad) in "Aladdin". (The
>protests were successful, since the lyrics were changed for the video
>release.)
>Wilmer Rivers
I, too, remember "Donald in Mathamagics Land" But I remember it as a
film.
What a pleasure it was to see this is available on video. I now own a copy
for myself and I've watched it several times. Ah, the memories! :)
I never know it was a comic! Which was first?
Chris Mickey's #1 Fan!! :) :)
David A Gerstein
A matter of covers
Message 108 -
1993-10-11 at 23:36:23
Dear Folks,
I just ftp-ed the new version of van-horn from the ftp
archive. Thank you, Harry, for sorting out the mistakes in my work
and getting everything straightened out!
The following cover appeared on a German Donald Duck
Sonderheft sometime in 1992:
KS 70-90 WDC 560 The April Foolers
I don't know which issue, but might it have been used on
another such "special" in Denmark, Norway, etc.?
By the way, Ehapa in Germany has been using original covers
about 75% of the time since mid-1991 at least. In many cases, they've
just taken Branca and Santanach Duck covers and redrawn them in the
DuckTales style (pie-eyes are removed, huge thatches of feathers added
to heads, etc) which of course wrecks them. Once in a great while
they also redraw an old Kelly cover (WDC 69, 113) But in other cases,
they've rejected Duck covers just to put MM on the cover, because he's
more popular there than in Denmark since the release of a low-priced
hardback Gottfredson reprint series about six years ago.
Unfortunately, as much as I support wild promotion of MM,
Ehapa's artists don't draw a better version of MM than they do of DD
or the nephews. (No attempt to do a Gottfredsonesque MM either!)
Before 1991 the covers were definitely Egmont ones. Pie-eyes,
fluid poses, the works. (I like Daniel Branca's covers a lot!)
Ehapa keeps its old DD Sonderhefts in print, reprinting
each one every five years. Many of those had Barks covers, and in
some cases they've even replaced *these* with very similarly-staged
redraws as well. I've even seen one or two redraws of old Kelly
covers.
Whenever an Egmont cover is used new or as a reprint *without*
a redraw, Ehapa nearly always eliminates the pie-eyes. (Some Branca
cover of Donald accidentally brushing his teeth with paint appeared in
Norway with pie-eyes, in Germany without, in 1991, for example.) They
seem very anxious to do this... the back cover of each issue shows the
upcoming one, and many times I've seen pie-eyes on the "previewed"
cover, then the final version has them blacked-in.
There *is* an exception to every rule... once every couple of
months they do print something unchanged from its contemporary-Danish
or past appearance. I won't try to understand...
What is the case with covers for other Egmont affiliates? Do
their covers usually match from week to week? Do some affiliates now
and then use covers that seem "local" (i. e. bear no resemblance to
the work of a known Egmont artist)?
Also: There is a Jippes cover on WDC&S 589, for those who
haven't seen it in Gladstone "preview catalog" advertisements over the
summer. I'm pleased to have it heading off my first published dialog!
That's all, folks.
David Gerstein
I just ftp-ed the new version of van-horn from the ftp
archive. Thank you, Harry, for sorting out the mistakes in my work
and getting everything straightened out!
The following cover appeared on a German Donald Duck
Sonderheft sometime in 1992:
KS 70-90 WDC 560 The April Foolers
I don't know which issue, but might it have been used on
another such "special" in Denmark, Norway, etc.?
By the way, Ehapa in Germany has been using original covers
about 75% of the time since mid-1991 at least. In many cases, they've
just taken Branca and Santanach Duck covers and redrawn them in the
DuckTales style (pie-eyes are removed, huge thatches of feathers added
to heads, etc) which of course wrecks them. Once in a great while
they also redraw an old Kelly cover (WDC 69, 113) But in other cases,
they've rejected Duck covers just to put MM on the cover, because he's
more popular there than in Denmark since the release of a low-priced
hardback Gottfredson reprint series about six years ago.
Unfortunately, as much as I support wild promotion of MM,
Ehapa's artists don't draw a better version of MM than they do of DD
or the nephews. (No attempt to do a Gottfredsonesque MM either!)
Before 1991 the covers were definitely Egmont ones. Pie-eyes,
fluid poses, the works. (I like Daniel Branca's covers a lot!)
Ehapa keeps its old DD Sonderhefts in print, reprinting
each one every five years. Many of those had Barks covers, and in
some cases they've even replaced *these* with very similarly-staged
redraws as well. I've even seen one or two redraws of old Kelly
covers.
Whenever an Egmont cover is used new or as a reprint *without*
a redraw, Ehapa nearly always eliminates the pie-eyes. (Some Branca
cover of Donald accidentally brushing his teeth with paint appeared in
Norway with pie-eyes, in Germany without, in 1991, for example.) They
seem very anxious to do this... the back cover of each issue shows the
upcoming one, and many times I've seen pie-eyes on the "previewed"
cover, then the final version has them blacked-in.
There *is* an exception to every rule... once every couple of
months they do print something unchanged from its contemporary-Danish
or past appearance. I won't try to understand...
What is the case with covers for other Egmont affiliates? Do
their covers usually match from week to week? Do some affiliates now
and then use covers that seem "local" (i. e. bear no resemblance to
the work of a known Egmont artist)?
Also: There is a Jippes cover on WDC&S 589, for those who
haven't seen it in Gladstone "preview catalog" advertisements over the
summer. I'm pleased to have it heading off my first published dialog!
That's all, folks.
David Gerstein
Bjorn-are.Davidsen
On Arabs, Byzantium and common knowledge
Message 109 -
1993-10-12 at 14:03:16
Even Flood and Wilmer Rivers!
(Flood and Rivers are perhaps not to happy subjects in the US this year?)
I totally agree with Even's praise for Don's "Guardians of the Lost Library"!
However, I am a bit uncertain about the absolute need to mention the Arabs in this
context. I'll give two reasons for it.
Firstly, it may be due to my Norwegian backgroud (which I share with Even even if I am
15 years younger), but I did during my schooldays in the 60's and 70's - time and
again, from teacher after teacher, from one text book to the other, in television series,
books and newspapers - certainly hear a lot about the indeed important Arab
contribution within mathematics (though stealing the zero from the Indians), astronomy
(though mostly concerned with astrology) and literature (though mostly through
translations from the Greeks). But I heard nothing - or next to nothing about the
East-Romans or Byzantium. We learned about Bagdad and Cordoba, but not about
Constantinople. That is a bit curious because Constantinople undoubtedly was the
largest and most affluent city of its day, at least in our part of the world (one Chinese
city had about one million inhabitants). Constantinople had a population of between
500 000 and 1 million (depending on which historian you choose to believe). And it's
"day" lasted a LOT longer than either Bagdad or Cordoba, from about 330 A.D. to 1453,
though not a very bright day after 1204. I have my own private theory that one of the
reasons for the negative or non-focus on Constantinople is that it was the centre of an
empire of well educated Christians, which it has not been popular to talk about the last
few hundred years. Because, as we all know, medieval Christians are dirty and
ignorant (like the western ones which sacked Constantinople in 1204). And the last 30
years it has been more polical correct to mention the Arabs.
Secondly, the Byzantinians were the direct descendants of the Roman empire, which
controlled Alexandria when it's library was the largest. Alexandria was Byzantinian up
to the last half of the 7th century. So, apart from several fires and fanatics, if there
ought to one place in the region which historically could have contained Alexandrian
remnants or more than that, it was Constantinople, Queen of Cities. It is also a
historical fact that a lot of ancient literature did exist in Constantiople at least up to
1204, being mentioned and quoted from in several still existing manuscripts. There is
also a fact that Marco Polo did visit the city several times, even if that was a long time
after 1204.
I promise, no more history today. Apart from a small criticism of Don's "Guardians
of...": The churches and buildings of Constantinople in 1204 should have been a bit
more "round" or "smoother". As they now look it's almost like a scene from "Lost in the
Andes".
Bj|rn Are Davidsen
bjorn-are.davidsen at televerket.tele.no
(Flood and Rivers are perhaps not to happy subjects in the US this year?)
I totally agree with Even's praise for Don's "Guardians of the Lost Library"!
However, I am a bit uncertain about the absolute need to mention the Arabs in this
context. I'll give two reasons for it.
Firstly, it may be due to my Norwegian backgroud (which I share with Even even if I am
15 years younger), but I did during my schooldays in the 60's and 70's - time and
again, from teacher after teacher, from one text book to the other, in television series,
books and newspapers - certainly hear a lot about the indeed important Arab
contribution within mathematics (though stealing the zero from the Indians), astronomy
(though mostly concerned with astrology) and literature (though mostly through
translations from the Greeks). But I heard nothing - or next to nothing about the
East-Romans or Byzantium. We learned about Bagdad and Cordoba, but not about
Constantinople. That is a bit curious because Constantinople undoubtedly was the
largest and most affluent city of its day, at least in our part of the world (one Chinese
city had about one million inhabitants). Constantinople had a population of between
500 000 and 1 million (depending on which historian you choose to believe). And it's
"day" lasted a LOT longer than either Bagdad or Cordoba, from about 330 A.D. to 1453,
though not a very bright day after 1204. I have my own private theory that one of the
reasons for the negative or non-focus on Constantinople is that it was the centre of an
empire of well educated Christians, which it has not been popular to talk about the last
few hundred years. Because, as we all know, medieval Christians are dirty and
ignorant (like the western ones which sacked Constantinople in 1204). And the last 30
years it has been more polical correct to mention the Arabs.
Secondly, the Byzantinians were the direct descendants of the Roman empire, which
controlled Alexandria when it's library was the largest. Alexandria was Byzantinian up
to the last half of the 7th century. So, apart from several fires and fanatics, if there
ought to one place in the region which historically could have contained Alexandrian
remnants or more than that, it was Constantinople, Queen of Cities. It is also a
historical fact that a lot of ancient literature did exist in Constantiople at least up to
1204, being mentioned and quoted from in several still existing manuscripts. There is
also a fact that Marco Polo did visit the city several times, even if that was a long time
after 1204.
I promise, no more history today. Apart from a small criticism of Don's "Guardians
of...": The churches and buildings of Constantinople in 1204 should have been a bit
more "round" or "smoother". As they now look it's almost like a scene from "Lost in the
Andes".
Bj|rn Are Davidsen
bjorn-are.davidsen at televerket.tele.no
Mattias Hallin
One more Rota story
Message 110 -
1993-10-12 at 15:57:45
"when looking in Ole's Danish index, I found one more recent Rota story:
12 pages, code: D 93041, title: DD paa dybt vand (whatever that means)"
...said Harry Fluks; well, "Paa dybt vand" is Danish for "In Deep Water", or
possibly "Out of Depth" - litteraly it means "paa"="on", "dybt"="deep" and
"vand"="water"; depending on context one of the English title suggestions
would be the better one.
Mattias
12 pages, code: D 93041, title: DD paa dybt vand (whatever that means)"
...said Harry Fluks; well, "Paa dybt vand" is Danish for "In Deep Water", or
possibly "Out of Depth" - litteraly it means "paa"="on", "dybt"="deep" and
"vand"="water"; depending on context one of the English title suggestions
would be the better one.
Mattias
David A Gerstein
Disney-comics digest #125.
Message 111 -
1993-10-12 at 18:02:53
Hi, Folks!
I'll air my comments by subject like yesterday... seems like
that's an easy way to keep from digressing too much.
Harry's quote from "Return to Xanadu"
======= ===== ==== ======= == =======
>"No, it's Ramjah Phee. What a strange person you are!"
Isn't that *Samjah* Phee, or am I not remembering right? And
most importantly... Don, is there a meaning or pun to "Samjah Phee"
that I just haven't caught, despite reading "Return to Xanadu" upwards
of eight times?
Mark on colours (I think it was Mark, anyway)
==== == ======= == ===== == === ===== =======
Was it you who mentioned that Bolivar was colored a straight
orange in some old issue? Now you've lit a powder keg...
Bolivar is never colored consistently in American comics! He
never has been, either. The earliest comic I have that includes him
is WDC&S 9, and one of the strips in it is his second appearance in
the DD daily, so I believe that this is the first book to have multiple
appearances from him in it. The news is: He's tan in some strips,
brown in some, a mixture in others, and *white* in one of them.
Disney Comics printed lots of Bolivar material. But those
items -- in DDAD 5, 32, 33, WDC&S 562, 576, DISNEY ALBUM 7, and so
forth -- don't color him consistently, either, although he's usually a
mixture of dark brown and some other color.
In Europe, where he's used more often, they seem to color him
consistently, but I couldn't tell you for the life of me how that is.
DD in Mathmagic Land
== == ========= ====
When this cartoon was released in theatres, a comic version
was also done, by Tony Strobl. It's okay, I guess, but then I
personally find Strobl's art extremely lifeless so maybe that's why I
don't like it much. How is the script? I've forgotten...
When this story was reprinted in Germany a few years ago a
Daniel Branca cover to it was used. I wouldn't mind if Daniel Branca
redrew the story itself (okay... FLAME ME!), as he has done with
various Strobls in the past ("Backwards Woodsman" and "The Mountless
Mountie"). I really like Daniel Branca's artwork, and with a good
script backing it up it can be one of the really fine duck reading
experiences. Anyone else have a special fondness for it?
I practically fainted when Byron Erickson informed me last
spring that Branca is to draw the script I sold Egmont!!! I just
can't wait to see what he does with it. (I'm just finishing the
editing on another script for them now... I imagine this one being
best drawn by Bill Van Horn, but he doesn't do lots of other people's
scripts, so let's keep our fingers crossed...)
Mark Semich's WDC&S 57
==== ======== ===== ==
Mark, where did you get that comic? How much did it cost?
Did they have a wide selection of others from the period in generally
beat-up condition, and if so, how early did they get? And am I asking
enough questions for you?
Most of the WDC&S issues from that time are loaded with
wartime comments. They go on to about 1946, because there was a time
lag between when the daily strips stopped the war comments and when
the comic books got to reprint those same strips.
Well, that's all for today, folks. Time to go to the mail and
see if Harry Fluks' package of albums has come!!!!!!
Yours,
David Gerstein
"You don't understand the war, boys? Let's pretend Huey was
Stalin, Dewey was Truman, and Louie was Churchill... and that this
easy chair was Germany, and I was *Hitler!*"
>CRASH! SOCK!<
"It got too real for us, Unca Donald!" --- Taliaferro, 1944
I'll air my comments by subject like yesterday... seems like
that's an easy way to keep from digressing too much.
Harry's quote from "Return to Xanadu"
======= ===== ==== ======= == =======
>"No, it's Ramjah Phee. What a strange person you are!"
Isn't that *Samjah* Phee, or am I not remembering right? And
most importantly... Don, is there a meaning or pun to "Samjah Phee"
that I just haven't caught, despite reading "Return to Xanadu" upwards
of eight times?
Mark on colours (I think it was Mark, anyway)
==== == ======= == ===== == === ===== =======
Was it you who mentioned that Bolivar was colored a straight
orange in some old issue? Now you've lit a powder keg...
Bolivar is never colored consistently in American comics! He
never has been, either. The earliest comic I have that includes him
is WDC&S 9, and one of the strips in it is his second appearance in
the DD daily, so I believe that this is the first book to have multiple
appearances from him in it. The news is: He's tan in some strips,
brown in some, a mixture in others, and *white* in one of them.
Disney Comics printed lots of Bolivar material. But those
items -- in DDAD 5, 32, 33, WDC&S 562, 576, DISNEY ALBUM 7, and so
forth -- don't color him consistently, either, although he's usually a
mixture of dark brown and some other color.
In Europe, where he's used more often, they seem to color him
consistently, but I couldn't tell you for the life of me how that is.
DD in Mathmagic Land
== == ========= ====
When this cartoon was released in theatres, a comic version
was also done, by Tony Strobl. It's okay, I guess, but then I
personally find Strobl's art extremely lifeless so maybe that's why I
don't like it much. How is the script? I've forgotten...
When this story was reprinted in Germany a few years ago a
Daniel Branca cover to it was used. I wouldn't mind if Daniel Branca
redrew the story itself (okay... FLAME ME!), as he has done with
various Strobls in the past ("Backwards Woodsman" and "The Mountless
Mountie"). I really like Daniel Branca's artwork, and with a good
script backing it up it can be one of the really fine duck reading
experiences. Anyone else have a special fondness for it?
I practically fainted when Byron Erickson informed me last
spring that Branca is to draw the script I sold Egmont!!! I just
can't wait to see what he does with it. (I'm just finishing the
editing on another script for them now... I imagine this one being
best drawn by Bill Van Horn, but he doesn't do lots of other people's
scripts, so let's keep our fingers crossed...)
Mark Semich's WDC&S 57
==== ======== ===== ==
Mark, where did you get that comic? How much did it cost?
Did they have a wide selection of others from the period in generally
beat-up condition, and if so, how early did they get? And am I asking
enough questions for you?
Most of the WDC&S issues from that time are loaded with
wartime comments. They go on to about 1946, because there was a time
lag between when the daily strips stopped the war comments and when
the comic books got to reprint those same strips.
Well, that's all for today, folks. Time to go to the mail and
see if Harry Fluks' package of albums has come!!!!!!
Yours,
David Gerstein
"You don't understand the war, boys? Let's pretend Huey was
Stalin, Dewey was Truman, and Louie was Churchill... and that this
easy chair was Germany, and I was *Hitler!*"
>CRASH! SOCK!<
"It got too real for us, Unca Donald!" --- Taliaferro, 1944
Wilmer Rivers
Translating puns
Message 112 -
1993-10-12 at 18:35:57
Harry's signature line:
> "No, it's Ramjah Phee. What a strange person you are!"
>
leads David Gerstein to ask:
> Isn't that *Samjah* Phee, or am I not remembering right? And
> most importantly... Don, is there a meaning or pun to "Samjah Phee"
> that I just haven't caught, despite reading "Return to Xanadu" upwards
> of eight times?
>
which in turn leads **me** to ask, how are puns like this one (on Sam
Jaffee, who played the ancient lama in "Lost Horizon") handled in the
non-English editions? If they use different names for Donald, Scrooge,
etc., do they keep the "English" names for the incidental characters,
such as the residents of Tra La La? When that name involves a pun,
what do they do? In particular, how did the European editions handle
"coral barques"? Do the European authors attempt any "non-English"
puns, or do they worry about how the story will read in English?
Just curious.
Wilmer Rivers
> "No, it's Ramjah Phee. What a strange person you are!"
>
leads David Gerstein to ask:
> Isn't that *Samjah* Phee, or am I not remembering right? And
> most importantly... Don, is there a meaning or pun to "Samjah Phee"
> that I just haven't caught, despite reading "Return to Xanadu" upwards
> of eight times?
>
which in turn leads **me** to ask, how are puns like this one (on Sam
Jaffee, who played the ancient lama in "Lost Horizon") handled in the
non-English editions? If they use different names for Donald, Scrooge,
etc., do they keep the "English" names for the incidental characters,
such as the residents of Tra La La? When that name involves a pun,
what do they do? In particular, how did the European editions handle
"coral barques"? Do the European authors attempt any "non-English"
puns, or do they worry about how the story will read in English?
Just curious.
Wilmer Rivers
Per Starback
Translating puns
Message 113 -
1993-10-13 at 02:20:54
On Tsamjah Phee (in Return to Xanadu):
[That's how his name's spelt in my D&S anyway.]
Wilmer asked:
> how are puns like this one (on Sam Jaffee, who played the ancient
> lama in "Lost Horizon") handled in the non-English editions? If they
> use different names for Donald, Scrooge, etc., do they keep the
> "English" names for the incidental characters, such as the residents
> of Tra La La? When that name involves a pun, what do they do? In
> particular, how did the European editions handle "coral barques"? Do
> the European authors attempt any "non-English" puns, or do they worry
> about how the story will read in English?
Tsamjah Phee was actually Samjah Fee in Swedish. The "coral barques"
remark was ignored in the Swedish translation. (Well, what was there
to do?) Generally speaking the characters get Swedish names, and might
get new puns if the original ones aren't translatable.
I know that the translator has had problems with puns in Italian
stories. I don't think most Egmont stories (Rosa excluded!) contain
any puns at all. (After all, they know the stories will be translated
anyway.)
-- "
Per Starback, Uppsala, Sweden. email: starback at student.docs.uu.se
"Life is but a gamble! Let flipism chart your ramble!"
[That's how his name's spelt in my D&S anyway.]
Wilmer asked:
> how are puns like this one (on Sam Jaffee, who played the ancient
> lama in "Lost Horizon") handled in the non-English editions? If they
> use different names for Donald, Scrooge, etc., do they keep the
> "English" names for the incidental characters, such as the residents
> of Tra La La? When that name involves a pun, what do they do? In
> particular, how did the European editions handle "coral barques"? Do
> the European authors attempt any "non-English" puns, or do they worry
> about how the story will read in English?
Tsamjah Phee was actually Samjah Fee in Swedish. The "coral barques"
remark was ignored in the Swedish translation. (Well, what was there
to do?) Generally speaking the characters get Swedish names, and might
get new puns if the original ones aren't translatable.
I know that the translator has had problems with puns in Italian
stories. I don't think most Egmont stories (Rosa excluded!) contain
any puns at all. (After all, they know the stories will be translated
anyway.)
-- "
Per Starback, Uppsala, Sweden. email: starback at student.docs.uu.se
"Life is but a gamble! Let flipism chart your ramble!"
Mattias Hallin
Translating puns
Message 114 -
1993-10-13 at 10:44:55
About translations to Swedish: of course puns are sometimes lost because they
refer to specific english/american matters; or because a play of words just
isn't possible. There are a few more points to this, however:
a) The main translator of Disney comics in Sweden is NAFS(k) founder Stefan
Di|s; a donaldist who actually got to make a living from his "hobby" (lucky,
lucky, lucky!) - and who is usually very conscientious about his translations,
and who LOVES to sink his teeth into a good, untranslatable pun - not least in
a Don Rosa story; but who also is very aware of
b) the fact that there by now is a very specific Swedish translating tradition:
the translations from the late forties and early fifties by Axel Norbeck, and
those from the late fifties through late seventies of husband-and-wife team
Per-Anders and Majbritt Westrin - a tradition that has actually been a major
litterary and linguistic influence on generations of young Swedes, including
many that are now donaldists. This means f'rinstance, that when Rosa uses an
old Barks character, Stefan usually checks how that character's name was
originally translated, and most often uses the name given then. Sometimes there
are conflicting translations, one by Norbeck and an updated/revised one by the
Westrins in a later reprint - and then Stefan has to chose, or use a new name
altogether...
c) The Swedish duck-comics are always written in grammatically correct Swedish
with as little slang or such idiomaticisms as possible, and with no use
whatever of dialect.
Thought you'd like to know a bit...
Mattias
refer to specific english/american matters; or because a play of words just
isn't possible. There are a few more points to this, however:
a) The main translator of Disney comics in Sweden is NAFS(k) founder Stefan
Di|s; a donaldist who actually got to make a living from his "hobby" (lucky,
lucky, lucky!) - and who is usually very conscientious about his translations,
and who LOVES to sink his teeth into a good, untranslatable pun - not least in
a Don Rosa story; but who also is very aware of
b) the fact that there by now is a very specific Swedish translating tradition:
the translations from the late forties and early fifties by Axel Norbeck, and
those from the late fifties through late seventies of husband-and-wife team
Per-Anders and Majbritt Westrin - a tradition that has actually been a major
litterary and linguistic influence on generations of young Swedes, including
many that are now donaldists. This means f'rinstance, that when Rosa uses an
old Barks character, Stefan usually checks how that character's name was
originally translated, and most often uses the name given then. Sometimes there
are conflicting translations, one by Norbeck and an updated/revised one by the
Westrins in a later reprint - and then Stefan has to chose, or use a new name
altogether...
c) The Swedish duck-comics are always written in grammatically correct Swedish
with as little slang or such idiomaticisms as possible, and with no use
whatever of dialect.
Thought you'd like to know a bit...
Mattias
Don Rosa
+Postage Due+Disney-comics digest #126.
Message 115 -
1993-10-13 at 15:25:07
BJORN:
Thanks for the history lesson... but what was your final point?
That there were no libraries in Byzantine Constantinople? There was a
huge one right where I said it was (according to my sources).
And what's this you say about me not drawing a proper picture of
Constantinople of 1204. I didn't do that. The drawing in the story was
supposed to be modern day. My original script made that clear -- but
what did the caption say in that Norwegian edition? I do know that they
didn't stick closely to my original script, as is always the case. The
only place you're SURE to see the original script to my stories (good or
bad) is in the eventual Gladstone issues.
And you made a clever observation on those names! "Wilmer Rivers
Evan Flood?" "Nah, it's not raining hard enough!"
PUNS: What they told me when I first went to work for Egmont and
specifically asked them about using puns was that I should write my
stories as if they were going to be seen in English. If I use a pun in
one spot, this compels the translator to create a different pun in his
language, or at least create some other gag; otherwise the translator
just translates -- they aren't paid to be funny when there's nothing
funny in the original script. However, I've found that other Egmont
editors have told other writers just the opposite -- DON'T use puns. But
whatever the case, I KNOW that my dialogue is not as sharp as it used to
be. When I know that it's going primarilly into the foreign market, I
don't think I'm compelled to spend as much thought as I used to on witty
words, even though it's not a conscious lack of effort.
Oh, and I forgot to say to Bjorn: even if I had drawn a bad
cityscape of a city, PLEASE give me a break! You can't imagine how much
I DETEST drawing such things. In "Lost Library" I drew the entire story
before going back and doing all those cityscapes that I'd skipped over.
Such drawings are enormously tedious and not the slightest amount of fun
to do -- and after spending so much time on them, readers will just
glance over them to get on with the story. Maybe if I knew the secrets
of how to draw such scenes it wouldn't be so tiresome -- but I still
feel like a rank amatuer who hasn't the slightest idea what I'm doing
compared to all those other great Disney/Egmont/Oberon/Italian artists!
Thanks for the history lesson... but what was your final point?
That there were no libraries in Byzantine Constantinople? There was a
huge one right where I said it was (according to my sources).
And what's this you say about me not drawing a proper picture of
Constantinople of 1204. I didn't do that. The drawing in the story was
supposed to be modern day. My original script made that clear -- but
what did the caption say in that Norwegian edition? I do know that they
didn't stick closely to my original script, as is always the case. The
only place you're SURE to see the original script to my stories (good or
bad) is in the eventual Gladstone issues.
And you made a clever observation on those names! "Wilmer Rivers
Evan Flood?" "Nah, it's not raining hard enough!"
PUNS: What they told me when I first went to work for Egmont and
specifically asked them about using puns was that I should write my
stories as if they were going to be seen in English. If I use a pun in
one spot, this compels the translator to create a different pun in his
language, or at least create some other gag; otherwise the translator
just translates -- they aren't paid to be funny when there's nothing
funny in the original script. However, I've found that other Egmont
editors have told other writers just the opposite -- DON'T use puns. But
whatever the case, I KNOW that my dialogue is not as sharp as it used to
be. When I know that it's going primarilly into the foreign market, I
don't think I'm compelled to spend as much thought as I used to on witty
words, even though it's not a conscious lack of effort.
Oh, and I forgot to say to Bjorn: even if I had drawn a bad
cityscape of a city, PLEASE give me a break! You can't imagine how much
I DETEST drawing such things. In "Lost Library" I drew the entire story
before going back and doing all those cityscapes that I'd skipped over.
Such drawings are enormously tedious and not the slightest amount of fun
to do -- and after spending so much time on them, readers will just
glance over them to get on with the story. Maybe if I knew the secrets
of how to draw such scenes it wouldn't be so tiresome -- but I still
feel like a rank amatuer who hasn't the slightest idea what I'm doing
compared to all those other great Disney/Egmont/Oberon/Italian artists!
Mattias Hallin
+Postage Due+Disney-comics digest #126.
Message 116 -
1993-10-13 at 17:23:58
Don says: "PUNS: What they told me when I first went to work for Egmont and
specifically asked them about using puns was that I should write my
stories as if they were going to be seen in English. If I use a pun in
one spot, this compels the translator to create a different pun in his
language, or at least create some other gag; otherwise the translator
just translates -- they aren't paid to be funny when there's nothing
funny in the original script."
Of course I don't know much about what your EDITORS at Egmont said to you back
then, and even less so what they THOUGHT at the time, or think now; but I'm
fairly certain, at least where Sweden is concerned, that much of the
insistence that you should go on "punning" originally came from Stefan Di|s,
who as good donaldist, AND also making sure that his job would remain
interesting, insisted both to you (I know that for a fact - I heard him do it
and backed him up myself, too) and (my inference/or did Stefan tell me this?)
to his/your editors that you should not only be allowed but acctually
encouraged to include puns and the like in your material.
However, I believe easily that this "artistic license" granted to you is not
encouraged or maybe even allowed in what Egmont may perhaps (my inference,
again, as to THEIR opinion; certainly not my opinion if I even have one on this
subject) think of as "lesser" writers. This tallies, too, I think with the fact
that you and Barks are just about the only artists mentioned by name in (the
Swedish) Egmont publications - oh, and Walt Disney, of course... Yeah! Right!
I don't know how much Egmont policies varies locally, or how much is dictated
from Copenhagen (or wherever their HQs are thes days) but these are some
thoughts on the subject anyway.
All the quackiest!
Mattias
specifically asked them about using puns was that I should write my
stories as if they were going to be seen in English. If I use a pun in
one spot, this compels the translator to create a different pun in his
language, or at least create some other gag; otherwise the translator
just translates -- they aren't paid to be funny when there's nothing
funny in the original script."
Of course I don't know much about what your EDITORS at Egmont said to you back
then, and even less so what they THOUGHT at the time, or think now; but I'm
fairly certain, at least where Sweden is concerned, that much of the
insistence that you should go on "punning" originally came from Stefan Di|s,
who as good donaldist, AND also making sure that his job would remain
interesting, insisted both to you (I know that for a fact - I heard him do it
and backed him up myself, too) and (my inference/or did Stefan tell me this?)
to his/your editors that you should not only be allowed but acctually
encouraged to include puns and the like in your material.
However, I believe easily that this "artistic license" granted to you is not
encouraged or maybe even allowed in what Egmont may perhaps (my inference,
again, as to THEIR opinion; certainly not my opinion if I even have one on this
subject) think of as "lesser" writers. This tallies, too, I think with the fact
that you and Barks are just about the only artists mentioned by name in (the
Swedish) Egmont publications - oh, and Walt Disney, of course... Yeah! Right!
I don't know how much Egmont policies varies locally, or how much is dictated
from Copenhagen (or wherever their HQs are thes days) but these are some
thoughts on the subject anyway.
All the quackiest!
Mattias
Bjorn-are.Davidsen
More on Libraries
Message 117 -
1993-10-13 at 17:46:10
DON!
I am sorry for my perhaps somewhat clumsy way of expressing myself on the
subject of
libraries in Constantinople. Of course there were HUGE libraries in
Constantinople, at least
up to 1204! My main point was to defend you (if that is necessary) against any
misunderstanding that the library in your story really had ought to have been
placed in
Bagdad or Cordoba or any other Arab/Moslem city of that day. Far from it!
Constantinople was
larger (in population, area, buildings, riches) than both of these cities, and I think
(even if
Even and my schoolday teachers may disagree) that it's libraries (there were
many of them
in the City) were larger too.
Regarding your drawing of Constantinople. There are TWO panels in the story
showing the
City, one large one from the Moslem period (e.g. after the Turkish conquest in
1453 because
of the many minarets, but not containing any modern building, as in Istanbul
today) and one
small one on the next page showing crusaders and burning buildings/churches. I
commented
really on both, but my main point is that Byzantinian Churches (there were
several hundreds
if not thousands of them) have lots of round/"bubbleshaped" domes (and domes
on domes)
or cuppolas (if that is the word). The Turkish mosques from after 1453 are
constructed as
copies of the most famous Byzantine church, The Hagia Sophia.
To avoid any further misunderstanding (I hope): I really enjoyed the story!
Especially the fact
that you are one of the very few authors which seem to know enough about
history that the
Byzantines are put in their real context and their great contribution to posterity
(as guardians
of classical culture) is not forgotten! I would very much appreciate it if you in a
later story
could return to Constantinople! I would like a lot of drawings of the city in it's
(long)
Byzantinian highday!
Bjorn Are
Bjorn-Are at Davidsen.televerket.tele.no
I am sorry for my perhaps somewhat clumsy way of expressing myself on the
subject of
libraries in Constantinople. Of course there were HUGE libraries in
Constantinople, at least
up to 1204! My main point was to defend you (if that is necessary) against any
misunderstanding that the library in your story really had ought to have been
placed in
Bagdad or Cordoba or any other Arab/Moslem city of that day. Far from it!
Constantinople was
larger (in population, area, buildings, riches) than both of these cities, and I think
(even if
Even and my schoolday teachers may disagree) that it's libraries (there were
many of them
in the City) were larger too.
Regarding your drawing of Constantinople. There are TWO panels in the story
showing the
City, one large one from the Moslem period (e.g. after the Turkish conquest in
1453 because
of the many minarets, but not containing any modern building, as in Istanbul
today) and one
small one on the next page showing crusaders and burning buildings/churches. I
commented
really on both, but my main point is that Byzantinian Churches (there were
several hundreds
if not thousands of them) have lots of round/"bubbleshaped" domes (and domes
on domes)
or cuppolas (if that is the word). The Turkish mosques from after 1453 are
constructed as
copies of the most famous Byzantine church, The Hagia Sophia.
To avoid any further misunderstanding (I hope): I really enjoyed the story!
Especially the fact
that you are one of the very few authors which seem to know enough about
history that the
Byzantines are put in their real context and their great contribution to posterity
(as guardians
of classical culture) is not forgotten! I would very much appreciate it if you in a
later story
could return to Constantinople! I would like a lot of drawings of the city in it's
(long)
Byzantinian highday!
Bjorn Are
Bjorn-Are at Davidsen.televerket.tele.no
Mattias Hallin
More on puns
Message 118 -
1993-10-13 at 17:46:21
...and, oh, yeah: I forgot to say a few minutes ago, Don, because that seems
obvious to me; but of course I think you should go ON (and on, and on...)
writing punny, funny scripts to your stories - not only will that keep your
various translators on their toes, BUT eventually and hopefully your stories
WILL appear in English and as intended by you, and as prayed for by Us, your
'umble hreaders!
Mattias
obvious to me; but of course I think you should go ON (and on, and on...)
writing punny, funny scripts to your stories - not only will that keep your
various translators on their toes, BUT eventually and hopefully your stories
WILL appear in English and as intended by you, and as prayed for by Us, your
'umble hreaders!
Mattias
Andrew Krieg 5-5379
A few questions
Message 119 -
1993-10-13 at 17:47:49
Hello all!
I have a few questions today.
First off, I saw the movie "Around the World in 80 Days" for the first
time (in 70mm at a revival theatre!), and I was wondering if Don Rosa
used this partially for inspiration in "The Master of the Mississippi"?
I believe that it the story with the riverboat race. Anyway, in the
movie, the heroes are steaming a boat to England, and end up taking the
boat apart and burning anything and everything that will burn, just like
in the Rosa boat race.
Secondly, what happened to the Gladstone Barks index on the ftp site? I
couldn't find it. Is anyone planning on adding a complete Barks index?
Finally, who else thinks the creators of "The Beverly Hillbillies" had
Scrooge McDuck in mind when they created Mr. Drysdale? Just a bizarre
thought.
Andy
I have a few questions today.
First off, I saw the movie "Around the World in 80 Days" for the first
time (in 70mm at a revival theatre!), and I was wondering if Don Rosa
used this partially for inspiration in "The Master of the Mississippi"?
I believe that it the story with the riverboat race. Anyway, in the
movie, the heroes are steaming a boat to England, and end up taking the
boat apart and burning anything and everything that will burn, just like
in the Rosa boat race.
Secondly, what happened to the Gladstone Barks index on the ftp site? I
couldn't find it. Is anyone planning on adding a complete Barks index?
Finally, who else thinks the creators of "The Beverly Hillbillies" had
Scrooge McDuck in mind when they created Mr. Drysdale? Just a bizarre
thought.
Andy
Mattias Hallin
A few questions
Message 120 -
1993-10-13 at 18:17:22
I don't KNOW any of this, of course (how could I since I haven't been told);
and Don will probably answer you himself soon enough; but that
"burnin'-everything-on/in-the-boat/train-in-order-to-keep-up-the-race" gag is
more'n likely as old as the steam-powered vehicle! AND Barks used that gag,
too, in (I think it was) the steamboat race on the Mississipi between $crooge
and Colonel (was that his title?) Hogg - so if Don Rosa got his idea anywhere
in particular, that might indeed have been it!
Mattias Hallin
and Don will probably answer you himself soon enough; but that
"burnin'-everything-on/in-the-boat/train-in-order-to-keep-up-the-race" gag is
more'n likely as old as the steam-powered vehicle! AND Barks used that gag,
too, in (I think it was) the steamboat race on the Mississipi between $crooge
and Colonel (was that his title?) Hogg - so if Don Rosa got his idea anywhere
in particular, that might indeed have been it!
Mattias Hallin