Keskustelujen arkisto

First, my complements to Don on "Guardians of the lost
Library". It is a wonderful story, lots of facts, humour, gags
and details. Every time I read it I discover some new joke or
detail. Great work! And the description of how the libraries
were (and are!) destroyed and the litterature was preserved is
excellent done.

The only thing that disgusted me is the way the main point and
surprise is given away on the front page - Who did that?? Good
it was not Don. And thanks for telling us there is no D.U.C.K.
on the front page - otherwise I would still have been looking!

But I would like to make one comment, since Don says it was
(also) ment to be educational. The story would have gained by
some reference to the great Muslim libraries in the middle
ages. The biggest libraries around year 1000 were Muslim, for
example the ones in Cordoba and Bagdad. To have included them
in the story would have shown people the Muslim role in
preserving the antique litterature and adding their own, and
it would have given some alternative to the present
disgustingly prevalent western view of Muslims as Ruhsdie
haters.

And one trivia question to Don about GotlL: In one panel
Columbus is shown being lefthanded. Is that true? On the other
(or same) hand: the scholar on the third last page is also
lefthanded, so is there some other explanation? I am
lefthanded myself and like to know about famous southpaws.

Among other news from Norway: There was a short notice in VG
about the upcomming "Double or Nothing" competition on TV this
spring. The leader of the program said that one of the
subjects attracting most competitors is Donaldism. So this
spring we might see our heroes as subject for the most
prestigeous Norwegian television game. (The theme with the
most interest is the novel series (47 vols) "Isfolket" by the
Norwegian/Swedish author Margit Sandemo. The less said about
her the better.)

As this is my first time in this forum, I can give a short
description of myself: Reference librarian at the Technical
Universty Library in Trondheim, Norway. Specializing in
electronic information sources. Originally a chemist, worked
for six years at the Universty of Tromsoe in North Norway (the
most northern university in the world!) as a lecturer before
continuing a career in the library.

Age: 49, that makes me the old(est) man around here?

I was four and a half when "Donald Duck & Co" first came out
in Norway, and a year later I had learned to read them. And I
had to read them *fast*, before Dad got home. No, no parental
censorship, only he wanted to read them too. In those days the
text in Donald was all in capital letters, so it was easy to
learn to read.

Among the best memories of growing up with Donald is:
"Luck of the North",
"The Golden Helmet" (always my favorite),
"Only a poor old Man" (with one of the great mysteries of my
childhood: What was the trick Scrooge learned in Bagdad?
Who tought it to him and why? Don: any answers in Lo$?)
and (sigh) "Peter Pan" (The album of the movie. All right - so
I was a kid!)

When I started my studies DD&Co was at a low and I mistakenly
thought it was me growing up. So when "Lost in the Andes" came
when I was a student I completely missed it. I rediscovered it
later though.

That is it for now - glad to be here!

Even Flood
even.flood at due.unit.no

David Gerstein:
> A few other Rosa comments of my own:
>
> (A) Favorite short story: "On a Silver Platter"
> (B) Reason for (A): The scheme involving the platter is
> completely unique.

I agree it's a very good story, but the basic idea looks a lot like Barks'
"Stranger than fiction".

> (C) Least favorite story: "Super Snooper Strikes Again"

I think I agree with you, if the Dutch stories by Jan Kruse don't count.

> (D) Reason for (C): Story is drawn too realistically for me
> to laugh comfortably at what happens to Donald. Also, the story
> isn't different enough from the story it was a sequel to.

I quote a letter of myself here (from the times that Don wasn't on the list
yet):

[ Date: 26 Oct 1992 20:57:57 +0100
[ From: Harry Fluks <H.W.Fluks at research.ptt.nl>
[ Subject: Several things from the last 4 weeks
[
[ I recently read the story. I think this is not a follow-up, but a theft!
[ Rosa just used Barks's story idea to fill it in with his own gags. Rosa
[ could do better than this...

This doesn't mean that I'm a Rosa-hater...

And now, from Rosa to Rota:

> Can someone make a list of the stories Marco Rota has done for
> Egmont? Since they're being done for Denmark, not Italy, this means
> that they'll finally be short enough for Gladstone to use a lot of.
> Does someone have some code numbers?

I have some, as far as they appeared in Holland. The next is a result of
a 'grep' from my Dutch index. I edited it a bit, but I kept the Dutch
descriptions (and the Italian entries).

12 D 92120 DD vliegtuiggevecht met bolderbast
44 D 9434 DD en de tijdmachine (1st time machine story, with vikings)
32 I DD van ei tot eend (DD origin story)
36 I 215 US in: de geldzee (appeared in Disney Comics' U$)
17 D 5480 US op jacht naar onderzeese schatten
45 I 228-A DD en kleine krack (one of the two Viking stories)
32 I DD in de nacht van de saraceen
36 I 277-A DD geroosterd vlees als redding (another Viking story)
36 I 245-A DD als forens
14 D 92444 US inbraak in opdracht

These happen to be ALL the Rota stories I know of. Are there any more
Italian stories?

--Harry.

Mark recently bought WDC 57 and noticed
> that Donald's car was yellow rather than red in all of its
> appearances, and Daisy's clothing was purple instead of pink. Again,
> I apologize if this is an old topic, but when did these colors change
> to their more familiar states?

Actually the colour of Donald's car has been up here before, but no
conclusive answers were reached as far as I remember. I posted some
data from WDC's I have (none of them as old as yours) back then.
Here is that list again, but extended a little.

Dell: 126, 189 blue; Gold Key: 379, 403 red; 422 yellow; 429 red; 450,
454, 455 yellow; 456 red; 469 yellow; 471 red; Whitman: 487, 491
yellow; 504 blue. Judging by that small sample it seems like yellow
was the most common colour during a period at least.

David asked about the colouring of Scrooge's clothes:
> When and where did Uncle Scrooge ever appear consistently with a
> red-and-gray coat? The color changes wildly in old Dell issues, and
> is most often purple or green!

I don't know, but here are some data on the colour of Scrooge's coat
in some US's, in case anybody cares :-)

Dell US 15, 16, 27: purple
US 28, 57: red

Goldkey US 143, 149, 153: red

Whitman 165, 185, 186, 189: red (in 189 even his spats are red!)
190: purple
192: red
195: red coat with green cuffs
196: blue!
203, 207, 209: red
-- "
Per Starback, Uppsala, Sweden. email: starback at student.docs.uu.se
"Of course! Blue is red to Johnny!"

Hi again!

You may remember that some time ago I wrote a letter pointing out that
there is a rec.arts.disney (See? I wrote it all this time!) List of
Lists and that I wrote and told the maintainer about us. Since then I
have received a reply, but haven't had time to do anything about it
until now. Just yesterday, I noticed that this maintainer has obviously
been in touch with Per, and there is now some sort of general entry for
every list and index in the FTP archive. However, those of you that
whish to have an entry of your own should send mail to:

quetzal at yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au

Write a specification for your index in the following form:

-----

Index name

created by: name <email address>
maintained by: name <email address>
posted to rec.arts.disney: how often you post it on r.a.d (hehe)
ftp availability:
ftp.lysator.liu.se [130.236.254.153] : pub/comics/disney/whatever
email availability: Available from maintainer
size: x kb

Description (normally about three lines)

-----

The "created" and "maintained" rows may be exchanged for a "created and
maintained by" row.

I will mail such entries for my own "International Comic Character Names
list" and Rich Bellacera's "List of Recurring Disney Characters", since
Rich no longer has net access and thus cannot do it himself.

I don't know what it may result in, but I think it's a chance to make
ourselves known and spread our works to a somewhat broader audience.

/Fredrik

COMMENTS TO #124:
All the discussion about what color something or other was in
some old comic is mighty pointless. The colors were not done by the
artists nor even by anyone in the editorial offices. The colors in
comics are done by a room full of little old ladies in Sparta, Illinois,
who (in those days) may not even have had much contact with the Dell
offices or editors who are supposed to watch these colors. But whoever
does the colors, it's NOT the original artist. Case in point: it has
always griped me that Barks' "Land Beneath the Ground" story was
originally (and then ever since) printed with the Terries and Firmies in
a rainbow of colors! It's very clear when you read the stories that they
are not only supposed to look like plain rocks, but they are SO
identicle that the only way to tell them apart is by their neckware.
As for $crooge's frock, even though I say that what color the
original comics were in doesn't really matter, when I did "Son of the
Sun" (my first Duck story), I suggested $crooge's frock be PURPLE --
that's the color it was in the earliest issues of his title. But I also
like the red-with-gray-trim style, and that's how I color him when I do
drawings at conventions for folks. What I dislike is Egmont's recent
decision to switch to a new color scheme which includes always making
$crooge's cane BLUE. Blue???

Even Flood:
Hiya.
Glad you liked "Guardians of the Lost Library". The idea of
giving away the story's ending right smack-dab on the front cover (and
even in the previous week's ads) was that of the editor-in-chief. His
interest is not so much in the story as it is in promoting the sales,
and he thought this would help. So, whaddiya gonna do?
Pay no attention to which hands my characters use in the comics
-- this is something I think about but decide not to worry about. Often
characters must face a certain way in a panel and it then becomes
necessary that they be using a certain hand to do something which won't
block their body or such -- that's all I worry about.
I have only 28 pages to follow the Library around the world for
2000 years, so I guess I skipped a detour to Muslim land. Besides, my
Library's path was quite authentic -- books and parts of THE Library did
travel that route, at least as far as Italy. But... wouldn't the Muslim
books been added during the stay in Constantinople?
Yes, I missed not a single trick! I DO show the trick $crooge
learns "that time in Baghdad"(with an "h" added), though it's only a 1
1/2 page flashback, and it simply tells of when he first found he KNEW
the trick. You don't need to ask if I included this or that -- it's ALL
included, and I defy anyone (just for fun) to find the tiniest detail
that I omit from the life story!

Harry:
My "On a Silver Platter" was similar to "Stranger than Fiction",
wasn't it? And even though I read that story when I was a tad, I had no
memory of it when I wrote the "Silver Platter" thing. It could easilly
be said that I was thinking of it subconciously, to which I'd have no
way to defend myself. I use bits of this or that OFTEN and gladly admit
to it, but that wasn't one of the times.
But even if I DID recall that story, can't a reader see how MUCH
I added to the original bare-bone idea, as with that "Super Snooper"
sequel? Seems as though I could be accused of theft every time I use the
Beagle Boys trying to raid $crooge's Money Bin, by that attitude. There
are those who think I should never do sequels, and I don't argue with
that from the standpoint of possibly tainting the original... but some
will say I should create something all new of my own; that's the fallacy
-- if anyone thinks it's easier to do a sequel to a Barks story and make
it absolutely authentic and true, and add nothing too new or too wacky
to spoil the original concept, and still take it in a new direction and
make it entertaining and funny -- I have news for 'em! Doing an all
completely NEW story is immensely easy and less creative, and LOTS
QUICKER if I were trying to pull in those page rates fast. But sequels
are FUN for me personally... I plan to do lots more in the future, even
though I risk being "misunderstood" as with this "Super Snooper" story.
(I think THAT story is better appreciated in the super-hero culture of
America whom I aimed it at -- I should keep in mind that my main
audience is everywhere BUT in America.)

Aloha, Music-lovers, and welcome to...

...OOOPS! Sorry! Wrong number... I mean:
hello there, one and all, and in particular Don!

So sorry - never got round to the family tree this weekend; but as I said it's
no big deal, and I'll be back on that eventually.

Of course I think you should do sequels, if YOU want to do them (I don't mean
to sound pretentious or condescending - I'm plainly stating MY plain view and
hope you don't mind), for one thing because they're usually very good, both in
themselves and as sequels, I think. They're good sequels for the obvious fact
that they represent very thorough and painstaking research into both the
original story and the (Barksian) Duck universe as a whole, but also because of
what they're NOT: they don't aim to tell us "how it all ended" - did Rhett
Butler return to Scarlett? Did $crooge have an affair with Goldie? (I will
certainly never read the "Gone With the Wind" sequel, but I don't mind
rereading the original novel once in a while; it's not a very bad book,
actually) - or I don't think they do; but instead tell a NEW STORY with NEW
GAGS and NEW MORALITIES even when locale and characters are the same as in a
Barks story. I also admire your sequels very much because of how they are built
around CHARACTERS and how much thought goes into every little thing the
characters say or do, and how consistently you depict the duck's personalities.
It helps, too, of course, that your stories, whether new or sequel, are almost
always howlingly funny at many levels.

Also, I think you are (if once again you'll remember I don't mean to be
condescending) entitled to this choice for the reason that in a sense you are
the first, and so far I think the only, TRUE DUCK ARTIST. ("Blasphemy,
blasphemy!!! Stone him!!!") Not that Barks or Gottfredson or Taliaferro or
Jippes or you-name-em weren't or aren't ARTISTS; they most certainly are - BUT
in my mind you are the only one so far to whom THE DUCKS are not only what you
work with, but your CHOSEN MEDIUM, and that by preference, too! I think it only
fair to say that Barks's truest artistic INCLINATIONS were nowhere near the
ducks, by whom he made his LIVING; but rather, according to my recollections of
the Barrier book, in the very first place the short story, and as a cartoonist
or even comic book artist towards a realistic adventure strips. That he was too
good and conscientius a craftsman to turn out a hack's job, and that he
happened to have a talent bordering on genius for what he more or less by
chance ended up spending 25 years at - that's a duck of a completly different
colour (courtesy of Little Old Ladies Society, Sparta, IL). I think the same is
MORE or LESS true about almost any other duck artist, except you is first an
ARTIST and secondly a duck artist, while you are but the one: DUCK ARTIST.

My oh my, have I been ramblin'... In a way I feel very bad about publicly
trying to dissect a very nice guy, who I hope I might even be bold enough to
call a friend; but then again - that is perhaps part of the price one pays for
being an artist; and if I may quote another artist - my father - the main point
is not whether people LIKE one's work or DISLIKE it, that they REACT to it,
that is what matters - THAT is the question!

All my best

Mattias

Don Rosa wrote:
> My "On a Silver Platter" was similar to "Stranger than Fiction",
> wasn't it? And even though I read that story when I was a tad, I had no
> memory of it when I wrote the "Silver Platter" thing. It could easilly
> be said that I was thinking of it subconciously, to which I'd have no
> way to defend myself. I use bits of this or that OFTEN and gladly admit
> to it, but that wasn't one of the times.

Well, only the basic IDEA looks like that Barks story. Apart from that, the
stories are in fact totally different.
BTW: I didn't say THIS story was a theft; that only applied to "Super Snooper".
I will read the "Super Snooper" story again, see if I can detect the deeper
meanings. I never read super hero comics, I don't like them at all.

I like your stories that have references to other stories, but which
still can be read without knowing those other stories. Most of your stories
are this way. I hope you keep making your sequels like this.

--Harry.

Harry Fluks ()_() Dutch Disney comics freak
PTT Research, Leidschendam (NL) (_) H.W.Fluks at research.ptt.nl
"Tralla La, Lah Deedah, what's the Lama's name? Lama Dama Dingdong?"
"No, it's Ramjah Phee. What a strange person you are!"

About the colors of the Terries and Fermies in all printings of "The
Land Beneath the Ground": Having them appear in all the colors of the
rainbow (or at least all the colors available to the comic-book printers
of the time) doesn't really give me a problem. You still have to refer
to their neckties to tell Terries from Fermies, since members of both
species can be any color. Also, it makes for a much more visually
impressive comic - if all the inhabitants of the Land Beneath the
Ground were the same color as the background rock, they would be
entirely too well camouflaged for the pictures to show much of anything.
Besides, the native rock at those depths (probably eclogite) is, IMHO,
quite ugly (a very dark green) in comparison with the way the Terries
and Fermies are conventionally colored. When the Terries and Fermies
appear on the surface at the entrance to the mine shaft, HD&L refer
to them as "funny-looking rocks" (if memory serves), so it is proper
for them to be variously colored. You would still mistake them for
rocks, since rocks can indeed have a wide variety of colors and hues.
In fact, geologists carry around with them out in the field a thick
reference containing samples of all the very many distinct shades
for which official designations are recognized by the U.S. Geological
Survey (sort of like a book of samples for a paint salesman), so that
they can describe the colors of the rocks they find in a standard and
wide-ranging coloring system which will mean the same thing to all other
geologists (refering to their own copies of the manual, which they have
on their person at all times, good Junior Woodchucks that they are).

Wilmer Rivers
rivers at seismo.css.gov (Internet gateway to the Terries and Fermies!)