Harry Fluks wrote:
>Van Horn always drew his comics in 3 strips per page, when he worked
>for Disney Comics. The stories he later did for Egmont (Denmark),
>where 4- strip, because that's Egmont's standard (and of Dutch editor
>GP too).
The stardardization of artwork in Disney comics has always bothered me.
It wasn't until I read Scott McCloud's 'Understanding Comics' that I
could explain why. A few years back, Will Eisner wrote a detailed
study of comics and coined the phrase Sequential Art. In McCloud's
book, he shows that this definition applies to movies, cartoon, and
comics. Each is a story told by a sequence of artwork. Every frame in
a movie or cartoon is the same size, so the only way to control pacing
is through the use of time. Time doesn't exist in comics, so there has
to be other ways to control the pacing. One of the ways to do this is
by varing the size of different panels. McCloud goes on to show how
the same scene can appear different to the reader just by changing the
size of the panels. Are Egmont and GP limiting their artists abilities
to tell stories by forcing them to use standard page layouts? One of
the reasons that Don Rosa first caught my attention is because I
noticed that in some rows he uses 3 or 4 panels (instead of the
mandatory 2).
Another way you can control the pacing is through the number of words
used. A sequence of 4 panels with no words has a different pacing than
a sequence of 4 panels each with 20 words. There is an unwritten rule
in Disney comics that every panel must contain at least one piece of
dialog. I'll ask again, is this limiting Disney artists abilities to
tell stories?
I'm not an artist, but I'd be curious to hear other peoples opinions --
especially Don Rosa's.
David -- When you write a story for Egmont, aren't you writing a full
script? If so, how much control does the artist actually have over the
comic? Do they simply follow the script or are they able to make
changes where they think appropriate? Do you even talk to the artist?
Heidi -- How do you decide who draws which stories? Obviously, Egmont's
eight panel page wouldn't work for Disney Adventure Digest. Does DAD
have its own art standards? If so, how do you enforce them?
James Williams
Author
Topic: 199405
(152 messages)
James Williams
Standardization of Artwork
Message 46 -
1994-05-06 at 15:50:54
Harry Fluks
Mouse Revival Update
Message 47 -
1994-05-06 at 18:24:27
David wrote:
> Keep your
> eyes open for Squinch and Shyster, because they're going to be coming
> your way by the end of this year.
But they alreay ARE... I have seen at least one Egmont story featuring Squinch,
drawn by... Ferioli.
--Harry.
> Keep your
> eyes open for Squinch and Shyster, because they're going to be coming
> your way by the end of this year.
But they alreay ARE... I have seen at least one Egmont story featuring Squinch,
drawn by... Ferioli.
--Harry.
Mark Mayerson
Standardization of Artwork
Message 48 -
1994-05-06 at 18:57:56
James Williams wrote:
> Are Egmont and GP limiting their artists abilities
> to tell stories by forcing them to use standard page layouts? One of
> the reasons that Don Rosa first caught my attention is because I
> noticed that in some rows he uses 3 or 4 panels (instead of the
> mandatory 2).
I don't think that this has a simple answer. I've read an interview with
Alex Toth, one of the great comic book artists, who said that when he first
went to work for Western he was very frustrated by the standard page
layouts but that he came to appreciate them. On the other hand, Will
Eisner couldn't be Will Eisner without the ability to break down the
page his own way.
Sometimes, built in limitations can be a blessing. Because there are
8 panels to a page, Barks was able to knock you backwards with a half
page panel. Jack Kirby had to go to a full page or even two pages for
the same effect, because he wasn't generally limited to small panels.
(Does anybody out there remember Jim Steranko's 4 page panel in a
Shield story in Strange Tales?)
There's all kinds of other limitations. The drawing style is lifted
from animation, where you get a black outline and a solid color interior.
There's no interior shading on the characters, like Walt Kelly added to
the Pogo characters or like straight cartoonists like Eisner used.
As a result, Disney comics don't use lighting effects or shadows very much.
That's certainly a story-telling limitation.
In another sense, though, all these limitations add up to a definition of
what Disney comics are supposed to look like. Or at least what we're used
to them looking like.
> There is an unwritten rule
> in Disney comics that every panel must contain at least one piece of
> dialog. I'll ask again, is this limiting Disney artists abilities to
> tell stories?
I can think of at least one page in Barks' Luck of the North, where
Donald is contemplating what he's done to Gladstone, where there's a
silent panel. I'm sure other people will come up with other examples.
Are the Disney artists being limited? Absolutely. It means, though, that
when they break the rules with a half page panel or a silent panel, it
has greater meaning.
___________________________________________________________________
Mark Mayerson Side Effects Software Inc.,
Internet: mayerson at sidefx.com Toronto, Ontario, Canada
(416) 366-4607
> Are Egmont and GP limiting their artists abilities
> to tell stories by forcing them to use standard page layouts? One of
> the reasons that Don Rosa first caught my attention is because I
> noticed that in some rows he uses 3 or 4 panels (instead of the
> mandatory 2).
I don't think that this has a simple answer. I've read an interview with
Alex Toth, one of the great comic book artists, who said that when he first
went to work for Western he was very frustrated by the standard page
layouts but that he came to appreciate them. On the other hand, Will
Eisner couldn't be Will Eisner without the ability to break down the
page his own way.
Sometimes, built in limitations can be a blessing. Because there are
8 panels to a page, Barks was able to knock you backwards with a half
page panel. Jack Kirby had to go to a full page or even two pages for
the same effect, because he wasn't generally limited to small panels.
(Does anybody out there remember Jim Steranko's 4 page panel in a
Shield story in Strange Tales?)
There's all kinds of other limitations. The drawing style is lifted
from animation, where you get a black outline and a solid color interior.
There's no interior shading on the characters, like Walt Kelly added to
the Pogo characters or like straight cartoonists like Eisner used.
As a result, Disney comics don't use lighting effects or shadows very much.
That's certainly a story-telling limitation.
In another sense, though, all these limitations add up to a definition of
what Disney comics are supposed to look like. Or at least what we're used
to them looking like.
> There is an unwritten rule
> in Disney comics that every panel must contain at least one piece of
> dialog. I'll ask again, is this limiting Disney artists abilities to
> tell stories?
I can think of at least one page in Barks' Luck of the North, where
Donald is contemplating what he's done to Gladstone, where there's a
silent panel. I'm sure other people will come up with other examples.
Are the Disney artists being limited? Absolutely. It means, though, that
when they break the rules with a half page panel or a silent panel, it
has greater meaning.
___________________________________________________________________
Mark Mayerson Side Effects Software Inc.,
Internet: mayerson at sidefx.com Toronto, Ontario, Canada
(416) 366-4607
Stephen King's The Elmo
Guardians of the Lost Library
Message 49 -
1994-05-06 at 20:17:20
U$A 27 just came out here in the States with Don's "Guardians of the Lost
Library". A treasure hunt in the grand tradition, it concerns Scrooge's
search for the Library of Alexandria, gateway to untold ancient wealth.
Scrooge and his nephews cross four continents in the quest for the
peripatetic volumes of knowledge and uncover some startling lost knowledge
of their own.
The odyssey is packed with Don's usual asides and sight gags in addition to
the Barksian main story. Don's style does not lend itself to grand vistas,
though, and so the ducks' discoveries are not as visually awe-inspiring as
their first sighting of Cibola or Plain Awful. Nonetheless, this is not a
Barks story, it is a Rosa story, and it is successful in that; this is
among Don's best works. It is also nice to see Don work on a story which
does not stem directly from previous Barks work. (In fact, a major plot
point hinges on previous *Rosa* work.)
It is something of a shame that Duck Tales is not being produced any more.
Don has written Donald into a passive stay-at-home role, making this a
perfect vehicle for the television series.
The story has been affected by its own constraints. There are so many stops
along the trail of the library that each one seems rushed, as does the
opening. However, my mathematical inclinations appreciated the way the
library dwindled six orders of magnitude in the chase.
On the whole, "Guardians of the Lost Library" is a successful addition
to an extraordinarily impressive body of work.
greg
--
"The very word insect is a combination of two ancient Greek words: `in',
meaning `a' and `sect', meaning `repulsive little creature.' Thus not only are
spiders insects, but so are crabs, jellyfish, the late Truman Capote, bats,
clams, olives, and those unfortunate little dogs, `pugs', that appear to have
been struck repeatedly in the face with a heavy flat object."--Dave Barry
elmo (morrow at physics.rice.edu,morrow at fnal.fnal.gov)
Library". A treasure hunt in the grand tradition, it concerns Scrooge's
search for the Library of Alexandria, gateway to untold ancient wealth.
Scrooge and his nephews cross four continents in the quest for the
peripatetic volumes of knowledge and uncover some startling lost knowledge
of their own.
The odyssey is packed with Don's usual asides and sight gags in addition to
the Barksian main story. Don's style does not lend itself to grand vistas,
though, and so the ducks' discoveries are not as visually awe-inspiring as
their first sighting of Cibola or Plain Awful. Nonetheless, this is not a
Barks story, it is a Rosa story, and it is successful in that; this is
among Don's best works. It is also nice to see Don work on a story which
does not stem directly from previous Barks work. (In fact, a major plot
point hinges on previous *Rosa* work.)
It is something of a shame that Duck Tales is not being produced any more.
Don has written Donald into a passive stay-at-home role, making this a
perfect vehicle for the television series.
The story has been affected by its own constraints. There are so many stops
along the trail of the library that each one seems rushed, as does the
opening. However, my mathematical inclinations appreciated the way the
library dwindled six orders of magnitude in the chase.
On the whole, "Guardians of the Lost Library" is a successful addition
to an extraordinarily impressive body of work.
greg
--
"The very word insect is a combination of two ancient Greek words: `in',
meaning `a' and `sect', meaning `repulsive little creature.' Thus not only are
spiders insects, but so are crabs, jellyfish, the late Truman Capote, bats,
clams, olives, and those unfortunate little dogs, `pugs', that appear to have
been struck repeatedly in the face with a heavy flat object."--Dave Barry
elmo (morrow at physics.rice.edu,morrow at fnal.fnal.gov)
David A Gerstein
Disney-comics digest #321.
Message 50 -
1994-05-07 at 05:55:42
Dear Folks,
James Williams asked me:
"David -- When you write a story for Egmont, aren't you
writing a full script? If so, how much control does the artist
actually have over the comic? Do they simply follow the script or are
they able to make changes where they think appropriate? Do you even
talk to the artist?"
The artist can make minor changes where he thinks appropriate.
For example, I just got my first script back in comic form, as drawn
by Daniel Branca. I had accidentally had two close-ups of Scrooge on
one page, one a line above the other. Mr. Branca made one of them
into a regular, medium shot (he chose the better one to do that with,
to, IMHO).
Once in a while, the artist takes real license. In one scene,
Magica De Spell came dashing through a room "by the astonished ducks,"
as I said (or something like that). Mr. Branca thought it was an even
better idea for her to dash directly *over* the sitting Scrooge,
knocking him to the floor on his face with a splat. Great -- I love
it! I don't mind that kind of change... I wish I'd thought of it!
But Mr. Branca is an experienced artist. I don't know how
"greener" artists view their rights over a script. My first Mickey
script is going to Noel Van Horn (William Van Horn's son), who
recently started for Egmont as a Mickey artist. He's still developing
his Mouse, so I was encouraged to actually submit a model sheet of how
I imagined Mickey being drawn in the story. If any of you
Euro-readers have the 1939 "Robinson Crusoe" story, that's the one I
was thinking of when I drew up the model sheet... modern eyes, but
pie-cut pupils in them.
Best,
David Gerstein
<David.A.Gerstein at Williams.edu>
James Williams asked me:
"David -- When you write a story for Egmont, aren't you
writing a full script? If so, how much control does the artist
actually have over the comic? Do they simply follow the script or are
they able to make changes where they think appropriate? Do you even
talk to the artist?"
The artist can make minor changes where he thinks appropriate.
For example, I just got my first script back in comic form, as drawn
by Daniel Branca. I had accidentally had two close-ups of Scrooge on
one page, one a line above the other. Mr. Branca made one of them
into a regular, medium shot (he chose the better one to do that with,
to, IMHO).
Once in a while, the artist takes real license. In one scene,
Magica De Spell came dashing through a room "by the astonished ducks,"
as I said (or something like that). Mr. Branca thought it was an even
better idea for her to dash directly *over* the sitting Scrooge,
knocking him to the floor on his face with a splat. Great -- I love
it! I don't mind that kind of change... I wish I'd thought of it!
But Mr. Branca is an experienced artist. I don't know how
"greener" artists view their rights over a script. My first Mickey
script is going to Noel Van Horn (William Van Horn's son), who
recently started for Egmont as a Mickey artist. He's still developing
his Mouse, so I was encouraged to actually submit a model sheet of how
I imagined Mickey being drawn in the story. If any of you
Euro-readers have the 1939 "Robinson Crusoe" story, that's the one I
was thinking of when I drew up the model sheet... modern eyes, but
pie-cut pupils in them.
Best,
David Gerstein
<David.A.Gerstein at Williams.edu>
Don Rosa
Disney-comics digest #321.
Message 51 -
1994-05-07 at 07:27:23
MIKKO:
Don't worry about seeing the Lo$ #12. I just asked Byron
Erickson about the rumor I heard, and he said that all the publishers
will "of course" be using #12... even Sweden, though they decided to
delay that last chapter EIGHT months until Christmas (since it takes
place on Christmas Day). They apparently wouldn't think of NOT using one
of my stories anymore, he says... in reader surveys, they are the
highest rated stories they use.
Don't look for Bob Foster at the Finland show, or ANY European
comic show, or EVER representing Egmont, anywhere. He quit Egmont last
month and moved back to America. I haven't asked Byron about his
attending... but I know he's very busy and has little interest in such
shows for various reasons, so I'd be surprized if he was there, but I
hope so.
JAMES W.:
I can't get too deeply into my philosophy of comic art tonight.
But mainly, I think that all those fancy page lay-outs, to MY way of
thinking, is bunk, and just a way for the artist and writer to skip
doing lots and lots of work by putting less story in the same number of
pages. It's become very popular in American super-hero comics since
readers have become conditioned to not expecting very much plot in an
entire issue, since the stories can last for months or years, and the
American readers are only impressed by HUGE panels of fight scenes.
Large panels don't give a sense of time any better than small
panels... perhpas the reverse is true. Panels with no dialogue work much
better for that, and I have never heard of any guidelines that tell us
to never have panels without dialogue. The shape and size of my panels
are only dictated but what I need to fit INSIDE each panel -- my main
aim is to squeeze as MUCH plot and gags and everything into my alotted
pages, quite the opposite aim of those super-hero comics. And if I need
to have an empty "beat" of time, I simply have a small no-dialogue
panel. Having a standardized page lay-out forces me (and others) to
concentrate on more important aspects of storytelling... and I would
fight back if they told me to switch to 3-tier lay-outs for the same pay
rate, even though that would mean so much LESS work for the same amount
of money. Can you imagine how mush EASIER it is to do the 3-tier
lay-outs than 4-tier?! With the full 5-member Duck team, that could be
10-15 fewer times a Duck would be drawn per page!
GREG:
Since it sounds like people are buying their "Guardians of the
Lost Library" issues now, and I just went out and bought my copy, and I
must make some comments on this story that we ALL have looked forward to
seeing in English.
I think everyone knows I hate the dark, garish coloring in
modern American comics. But it looked all the worse here because
Gladstone received some rather "muddy" photostats of the art and the
dark coloring just made it look worse. Lots of trouble was taken to
color the story, but the dark colors and muddy art didn't make it look
as good as it should've.
Especially bad was the LETTERING! The letterer was not as good
as Todd Klein who does Lo$... the lettering here was all much too large
for the balloons, making them all look sloppy and crammed.
Gladstone incorporated all my art and script changes, both for
correcting errors and for including the original idea involving the
Woodchuck symbol (which they only use in America). And the dialogue is
100% my original script...except in ONE BALLOON, which bothers me so
much that I might ask for a public apology from someone. I don't wish to
be known as the man who introduced the word "BARF" into Disney comicdom.
I complained to Gladstone about this and the reason for this change will
make your head swim! Disney thought my dialogue was "too graphic" (my
dialogue had some obscure comment about a "technicolor yawn", a
reference intended to merely confuse most younger readers)... and DISNEY
THEMSELVES dictated that the word "BARF" be used instead!!! This might
seem incredible, but if you deal with Disney and the changes they
dictate for very long, you'll either go nuts or just learn to enjoy the
bizarre aspects and self-contradictions in their every move.
Well, I hope the muddy art, dark coloring and bad lettering
won't hinder your enjoyment of this story... but then, how could it NOT?
I mean, what's left?
Don't worry about seeing the Lo$ #12. I just asked Byron
Erickson about the rumor I heard, and he said that all the publishers
will "of course" be using #12... even Sweden, though they decided to
delay that last chapter EIGHT months until Christmas (since it takes
place on Christmas Day). They apparently wouldn't think of NOT using one
of my stories anymore, he says... in reader surveys, they are the
highest rated stories they use.
Don't look for Bob Foster at the Finland show, or ANY European
comic show, or EVER representing Egmont, anywhere. He quit Egmont last
month and moved back to America. I haven't asked Byron about his
attending... but I know he's very busy and has little interest in such
shows for various reasons, so I'd be surprized if he was there, but I
hope so.
JAMES W.:
I can't get too deeply into my philosophy of comic art tonight.
But mainly, I think that all those fancy page lay-outs, to MY way of
thinking, is bunk, and just a way for the artist and writer to skip
doing lots and lots of work by putting less story in the same number of
pages. It's become very popular in American super-hero comics since
readers have become conditioned to not expecting very much plot in an
entire issue, since the stories can last for months or years, and the
American readers are only impressed by HUGE panels of fight scenes.
Large panels don't give a sense of time any better than small
panels... perhpas the reverse is true. Panels with no dialogue work much
better for that, and I have never heard of any guidelines that tell us
to never have panels without dialogue. The shape and size of my panels
are only dictated but what I need to fit INSIDE each panel -- my main
aim is to squeeze as MUCH plot and gags and everything into my alotted
pages, quite the opposite aim of those super-hero comics. And if I need
to have an empty "beat" of time, I simply have a small no-dialogue
panel. Having a standardized page lay-out forces me (and others) to
concentrate on more important aspects of storytelling... and I would
fight back if they told me to switch to 3-tier lay-outs for the same pay
rate, even though that would mean so much LESS work for the same amount
of money. Can you imagine how mush EASIER it is to do the 3-tier
lay-outs than 4-tier?! With the full 5-member Duck team, that could be
10-15 fewer times a Duck would be drawn per page!
GREG:
Since it sounds like people are buying their "Guardians of the
Lost Library" issues now, and I just went out and bought my copy, and I
must make some comments on this story that we ALL have looked forward to
seeing in English.
I think everyone knows I hate the dark, garish coloring in
modern American comics. But it looked all the worse here because
Gladstone received some rather "muddy" photostats of the art and the
dark coloring just made it look worse. Lots of trouble was taken to
color the story, but the dark colors and muddy art didn't make it look
as good as it should've.
Especially bad was the LETTERING! The letterer was not as good
as Todd Klein who does Lo$... the lettering here was all much too large
for the balloons, making them all look sloppy and crammed.
Gladstone incorporated all my art and script changes, both for
correcting errors and for including the original idea involving the
Woodchuck symbol (which they only use in America). And the dialogue is
100% my original script...except in ONE BALLOON, which bothers me so
much that I might ask for a public apology from someone. I don't wish to
be known as the man who introduced the word "BARF" into Disney comicdom.
I complained to Gladstone about this and the reason for this change will
make your head swim! Disney thought my dialogue was "too graphic" (my
dialogue had some obscure comment about a "technicolor yawn", a
reference intended to merely confuse most younger readers)... and DISNEY
THEMSELVES dictated that the word "BARF" be used instead!!! This might
seem incredible, but if you deal with Disney and the changes they
dictate for very long, you'll either go nuts or just learn to enjoy the
bizarre aspects and self-contradictions in their every move.
Well, I hope the muddy art, dark coloring and bad lettering
won't hinder your enjoyment of this story... but then, how could it NOT?
I mean, what's left?
Scott D. Marshall
Unsubscribe
Message 52 -
1994-05-07 at 17:32:59
I would like to unsubscribe to this because I don't have enough time to
respond to any of the messages.
respond to any of the messages.
Fredrik Ekman
Disney comics in Egypt
Message 53 -
1994-05-08 at 01:41:04
4 May, David wrote:
> A few months ago we were discussing _Miki_, the Egyptian
> Disney weekly, which mostly featured D- and S-coded stories according
> to whoever had it (I'm sorry, but I don't remember who this was).
That was me, mostly.
> [...]
>
> The book reprinted a crossword puzzle from the Egyptian MM
> weekly. It suggests that the locally produced stories, if they're
> drawn by the same guys as the puzzle, are or at least were VERY poorly
> drawn. The crossword puzzle was, in fact, the poorest piece of
> officially-licensed Disney art I have ever seen in my life.
>
> There was also a reproduced cover. Weird. Showed MM
> celebrating Ramadan by lighting off a sky-rocket, and it was drawn
> firmly in a Depatie-Freleng "Pink Panther"-type cartoon style, with
> the sole exception of Mickey's face -- a generic side view, albeit
> with obvious pie-slices added to the pupils of his eyes.
Was the puzzle and the cover made by the same artist, do you think?
And I don't suppose you mean to say that the crossword picture was
actually worse than Giuseppe Perego's art. Please don't destroy my
illusions!
The thick Arabian book I got from Even featured a few covers that
were obviously locally produced and also indescribably ugly. I'm not
all that familiar with Pink Panther, but I guess you could claim that
these are made in that tradition. And the characters do have pie eyes
on some of them, although the "slices" are very small.
David, does the book you read say anything about if the same comics
are read throughout the Arab world? You mention "the Egyptian MM
weekly". Does this mean it's produced in Egypt and sold in other
countries as well or is it local to Egypt?
I suppose there are no pictures from the "Adventure on Mars" story
in the book? It would really be interesting to see one of these
Egyptian stories...
/F
> A few months ago we were discussing _Miki_, the Egyptian
> Disney weekly, which mostly featured D- and S-coded stories according
> to whoever had it (I'm sorry, but I don't remember who this was).
That was me, mostly.
> [...]
>
> The book reprinted a crossword puzzle from the Egyptian MM
> weekly. It suggests that the locally produced stories, if they're
> drawn by the same guys as the puzzle, are or at least were VERY poorly
> drawn. The crossword puzzle was, in fact, the poorest piece of
> officially-licensed Disney art I have ever seen in my life.
>
> There was also a reproduced cover. Weird. Showed MM
> celebrating Ramadan by lighting off a sky-rocket, and it was drawn
> firmly in a Depatie-Freleng "Pink Panther"-type cartoon style, with
> the sole exception of Mickey's face -- a generic side view, albeit
> with obvious pie-slices added to the pupils of his eyes.
Was the puzzle and the cover made by the same artist, do you think?
And I don't suppose you mean to say that the crossword picture was
actually worse than Giuseppe Perego's art. Please don't destroy my
illusions!
The thick Arabian book I got from Even featured a few covers that
were obviously locally produced and also indescribably ugly. I'm not
all that familiar with Pink Panther, but I guess you could claim that
these are made in that tradition. And the characters do have pie eyes
on some of them, although the "slices" are very small.
David, does the book you read say anything about if the same comics
are read throughout the Arab world? You mention "the Egyptian MM
weekly". Does this mean it's produced in Egypt and sold in other
countries as well or is it local to Egypt?
I suppose there are no pictures from the "Adventure on Mars" story
in the book? It would really be interesting to see one of these
Egyptian stories...
/F
Wilmer Rivers
English-language version of "Guardians"
Message 54 -
1994-05-08 at 05:57:25
Don Rosa writes:
> And the dialogue is
> 100% my original script...except in ONE BALLOON, which bothers me so
> much that I might ask for a public apology from someone. I don't wish to
> be known as the man who introduced the word "BARF" into Disney comicdom.
>
And I thought this was one of your English-language puns, for sure!
By "telling barks from barfs", I thought you were referring to recogniz-
ing stories by certain inferior Disney artists who shall go nameless
(although on this list they usually don't). So what was your original
line about the "technicolor yawn" supposed to have been? And would it
have been preferable to have avoided "barf" by saying, oh, "telling
howl from hurl"? Or whatever the current more-or-less-humorous expres-
sion is for what stand-up comics sometimes call the "diced-carrot yodel"
or the "porcelain hello" or...
Wilmer Rivers
> And the dialogue is
> 100% my original script...except in ONE BALLOON, which bothers me so
> much that I might ask for a public apology from someone. I don't wish to
> be known as the man who introduced the word "BARF" into Disney comicdom.
>
And I thought this was one of your English-language puns, for sure!
By "telling barks from barfs", I thought you were referring to recogniz-
ing stories by certain inferior Disney artists who shall go nameless
(although on this list they usually don't). So what was your original
line about the "technicolor yawn" supposed to have been? And would it
have been preferable to have avoided "barf" by saying, oh, "telling
howl from hurl"? Or whatever the current more-or-less-humorous expres-
sion is for what stand-up comics sometimes call the "diced-carrot yodel"
or the "porcelain hello" or...
Wilmer Rivers
Per Starback
Lo$ 12, Byron Erickson
Message 55 -
1994-05-08 at 09:29:04
On the last chapter of Life of Scrooge not being published in Sweden:
That's right, Don, that information came from Stefan Dios. Now you
write that Byron Erickson has said that
> all the publishers will "of course" be using #12... even Sweden,
> though they decided to delay that last chapter EIGHT months until
> Christmas (since it takes place on Christmas Day). They apparently
> wouldn't think of NOT using one of my stories anymore, he says... in
> reader surveys, they are the highest rated stories they use.
Maybe things have changed or I misunderstood or Stefan had
misunderstood, but I think he said it seemed like neither Lo$12 or
"The Duck Who Never Was" would be published in Sweden. I sure hope
the later info from Byron is correct instead.
> I haven't asked Byron about his attending [a comics con in
> Finland]... but I know he's very busy and has little interest in
> such shows for various reasons, so I'd be surprized if he was there,
> but I hope so.
Also according to Stefan, there will be a panel on how to make comic
books or something like that at the Book & Library fair in Gothenburg
in October where Byron will be, as well as some more Egmont people,
you (Don), Stefan, and Sture Hegerfors.
This panel is not part of the open stuff that everyone at the fair can
attend, but I hope I'll be able to sneak in anyway.
-- "
Per Starback, Uppsala, Sweden. email: starback at minsk.docs.uu.se
"Life is but a gamble! Let flipism chart your ramble!"
That's right, Don, that information came from Stefan Dios. Now you
write that Byron Erickson has said that
> all the publishers will "of course" be using #12... even Sweden,
> though they decided to delay that last chapter EIGHT months until
> Christmas (since it takes place on Christmas Day). They apparently
> wouldn't think of NOT using one of my stories anymore, he says... in
> reader surveys, they are the highest rated stories they use.
Maybe things have changed or I misunderstood or Stefan had
misunderstood, but I think he said it seemed like neither Lo$12 or
"The Duck Who Never Was" would be published in Sweden. I sure hope
the later info from Byron is correct instead.
> I haven't asked Byron about his attending [a comics con in
> Finland]... but I know he's very busy and has little interest in
> such shows for various reasons, so I'd be surprized if he was there,
> but I hope so.
Also according to Stefan, there will be a panel on how to make comic
books or something like that at the Book & Library fair in Gothenburg
in October where Byron will be, as well as some more Egmont people,
you (Don), Stefan, and Sture Hegerfors.
This panel is not part of the open stuff that everyone at the fair can
attend, but I hope I'll be able to sneak in anyway.
-- "
Per Starback, Uppsala, Sweden. email: starback at minsk.docs.uu.se
"Life is but a gamble! Let flipism chart your ramble!"
Stephen King's The Elmo
Disney-comics digest #322.
Message 56 -
1994-05-08 at 20:52:51
Don Rosa <72260.2635 at CompuServe.COM> writes:
[Re: "Guardians of the Lost Library"]
> Well, I hope the muddy art, dark coloring and bad lettering
>won't hinder your enjoyment of this story... but then, how could it NOT?
I was enjoying the plot, dialog, gags, and meticulously detailed art too much
to even notice. Perhaps I've been conditioned by years of exposure to
poor reproduction...perhaps I'm just not a discerning reader...perhaps you're
just a teeny-tiny too much of a perfectionist?
Gladstone's such a marginal company that I'm just happy to have *any*
regular Duck comics.
greg
--
"Cutting the space budget really restores my faith in humanity. It
eliminates dreams, goals, and ideals and lets us get straight to the
business of hate, debauchery, and self-annihilation."--unknown
elmo (morrow at physics.rice.edu,morrow at fnal.fnal.gov)
[Re: "Guardians of the Lost Library"]
> Well, I hope the muddy art, dark coloring and bad lettering
>won't hinder your enjoyment of this story... but then, how could it NOT?
I was enjoying the plot, dialog, gags, and meticulously detailed art too much
to even notice. Perhaps I've been conditioned by years of exposure to
poor reproduction...perhaps I'm just not a discerning reader...perhaps you're
just a teeny-tiny too much of a perfectionist?
Gladstone's such a marginal company that I'm just happy to have *any*
regular Duck comics.
greg
--
"Cutting the space budget really restores my faith in humanity. It
eliminates dreams, goals, and ideals and lets us get straight to the
business of hate, debauchery, and self-annihilation."--unknown
elmo (morrow at physics.rice.edu,morrow at fnal.fnal.gov)
David A Gerstein
Disney-comics digest #322.
Message 57 -
1994-05-08 at 20:58:25
Dear Fredrik (and everyone),
The Egyptian _Miki_ cover I saw reproduced in that book was
not by the same artist as the crossword puzzle. In fact, the cover
wasn't exactly bad, just weird. Since you mention the pie-cuts in the
eyes as being very small on the one you saw, I would wager that this
is either the same artist or someone influenced by that artist.
The crossword puzzle which I saw reproduced was much, much
worse than anything I have EVER seen by Giuseppe Perego. It in fact
looks like Mickey as I drew him when I was about ten years old
(although I drew him with pie-eyes then... I far preferred the 1930s
version at that age, although since I've gotten used to the 1939-1942
FG Mouse as well).
This was REEEEEAALLLLY bad, folks. I mean, Mickey's open
mouth had been filled in with black, and the black actually went out
of the mouth-outline in a few places. It is hard to believe this was
actually published.
There was also a Donald crossword puzzle shown from a
different issue. A passable picture of Donald, dressed with a
Pharaoh-like headdress, but obviously copied from a superior picture
somewhere else. The Mickey drawing seemed to have been done from
scratch. Ecccccch.
No drawings from the Mars story were reproduced. The Egyptian
comics of the day also featured a serial set in Ancient Egypt (with a
human lead), though, and if the artist for the Mickey Mars story was
the same as the artist on that (a few panels from which were
reproduced), then it probably looked better than this crossword
puzzle...
Ah, what a weary world we live in.
David Gerstein
<David.A.Gerstein at Williams.edu>
"I'm de Fuller Brush Man! I'm givin' g'way free semple!"
The Egyptian _Miki_ cover I saw reproduced in that book was
not by the same artist as the crossword puzzle. In fact, the cover
wasn't exactly bad, just weird. Since you mention the pie-cuts in the
eyes as being very small on the one you saw, I would wager that this
is either the same artist or someone influenced by that artist.
The crossword puzzle which I saw reproduced was much, much
worse than anything I have EVER seen by Giuseppe Perego. It in fact
looks like Mickey as I drew him when I was about ten years old
(although I drew him with pie-eyes then... I far preferred the 1930s
version at that age, although since I've gotten used to the 1939-1942
FG Mouse as well).
This was REEEEEAALLLLY bad, folks. I mean, Mickey's open
mouth had been filled in with black, and the black actually went out
of the mouth-outline in a few places. It is hard to believe this was
actually published.
There was also a Donald crossword puzzle shown from a
different issue. A passable picture of Donald, dressed with a
Pharaoh-like headdress, but obviously copied from a superior picture
somewhere else. The Mickey drawing seemed to have been done from
scratch. Ecccccch.
No drawings from the Mars story were reproduced. The Egyptian
comics of the day also featured a serial set in Ancient Egypt (with a
human lead), though, and if the artist for the Mickey Mars story was
the same as the artist on that (a few panels from which were
reproduced), then it probably looked better than this crossword
puzzle...
Ah, what a weary world we live in.
David Gerstein
<David.A.Gerstein at Williams.edu>
"I'm de Fuller Brush Man! I'm givin' g'way free semple!"
Mattias Hallin
RE Digest #320
Message 58 -
1994-05-08 at 21:29:57
DON:
I checked with Stefan Dios -- he says that Lo$ 12 isn't so much cancelled
as postponed. It seems that certain editors at the SWEDISH Egmont branch,
Serieforlaget, don't pertickerly care for your work, in pertickler dey don'
pertickerly care for Lo$ nor for the 60th birthday story. The latter actually HAS
been cancelled altogether for publication in Sweden, but Stefan says his editors
says they DO intend to publish Lo$ 12 here in Seden, too -- only they're waitin'
for winter "since it's set at Christmas"; for whatever that argument is worth. So
what they do is break their SCHEDULE for publishing Lo$.
It seems their main reasons for disliking your work has nothing whatever to do
with your particular kinda art, but rather that they feel you're aiming too high,
beyond the severly limited intellectual capacaities of the poor little kiddies.
That I think this so much hogwash, I shouldn't have to point out, I hope?! I've
yet to meet a kid who liked being treated like an imbecille, or even worse, being
TALKED DOWN TO by an adult, not to mention by the so-called childrens
entertainment that same adult is using as a pry-bar to make the kid part with that
week's allowance.
Actually I think it's just exactly the other way round -- lit. hist. proves
beyond doubt that almost all children's entertainment that lasted beyond last
morning's bowl of Oatsie-Woatsies was of the kind that WAS/IS too deep for that
selfsame kid to fathom entirely, and that does hold entertainment and/or other
values even to adults who didn't grow up on it (the entertainment I mean -- not
the Oatsie-Woatsies!!!).
Anyway, also the Swedish publication of Lo$ 11 ended with the caption "To be
continued" -- or words to that effect. So I don't think there's reason to panic
just yet!
All my best!
Mattias
!==============================================================================!
!* Mattias Hallin ** <Mattias.Hallin at Jurenh.lu.se> ** Phone: +46 46-14 84 43 **!
!* Trollebergsvagen 24 B ***** Work: Lund University, Box 117, S-221 00 Lund **!
!* S-222 29 Lund, SWEDEN **************************** Phone: +46 46-10 71 37 **!
!==============================================================================!
!********************** "Oh, the world owes me a livin'" **********************!
!==============================================================================!
!========================================================================!
!Mattias Hallin Phone: +46 (0)46-107137 (am) !
!Juridiska enheten +46 (0)46-109709 (pm) !
!Lund University Fax: +46 (0)46-104232 !
!Box 117, S-221 00 Lund, SWEDEN e-mail: <Mattias.Hallin at Jurenh.lu.se>!
!========================================================================!
I checked with Stefan Dios -- he says that Lo$ 12 isn't so much cancelled
as postponed. It seems that certain editors at the SWEDISH Egmont branch,
Serieforlaget, don't pertickerly care for your work, in pertickler dey don'
pertickerly care for Lo$ nor for the 60th birthday story. The latter actually HAS
been cancelled altogether for publication in Sweden, but Stefan says his editors
says they DO intend to publish Lo$ 12 here in Seden, too -- only they're waitin'
for winter "since it's set at Christmas"; for whatever that argument is worth. So
what they do is break their SCHEDULE for publishing Lo$.
It seems their main reasons for disliking your work has nothing whatever to do
with your particular kinda art, but rather that they feel you're aiming too high,
beyond the severly limited intellectual capacaities of the poor little kiddies.
That I think this so much hogwash, I shouldn't have to point out, I hope?! I've
yet to meet a kid who liked being treated like an imbecille, or even worse, being
TALKED DOWN TO by an adult, not to mention by the so-called childrens
entertainment that same adult is using as a pry-bar to make the kid part with that
week's allowance.
Actually I think it's just exactly the other way round -- lit. hist. proves
beyond doubt that almost all children's entertainment that lasted beyond last
morning's bowl of Oatsie-Woatsies was of the kind that WAS/IS too deep for that
selfsame kid to fathom entirely, and that does hold entertainment and/or other
values even to adults who didn't grow up on it (the entertainment I mean -- not
the Oatsie-Woatsies!!!).
Anyway, also the Swedish publication of Lo$ 11 ended with the caption "To be
continued" -- or words to that effect. So I don't think there's reason to panic
just yet!
All my best!
Mattias
!==============================================================================!
!* Mattias Hallin ** <Mattias.Hallin at Jurenh.lu.se> ** Phone: +46 46-14 84 43 **!
!* Trollebergsvagen 24 B ***** Work: Lund University, Box 117, S-221 00 Lund **!
!* S-222 29 Lund, SWEDEN **************************** Phone: +46 46-10 71 37 **!
!==============================================================================!
!********************** "Oh, the world owes me a livin'" **********************!
!==============================================================================!
!========================================================================!
!Mattias Hallin Phone: +46 (0)46-107137 (am) !
!Juridiska enheten +46 (0)46-109709 (pm) !
!Lund University Fax: +46 (0)46-104232 !
!Box 117, S-221 00 Lund, SWEDEN e-mail: <Mattias.Hallin at Jurenh.lu.se>!
!========================================================================!
Fredrik Ekman
Heymans and Van Horn
Message 59 -
1994-05-09 at 00:08:12
Sigurdur,
I don't quite remember, but someone's probably already answered
this for you. Anyway, the story you referred to in last Egmont DD
issue with Donald's criminal cousin is by Mau Heymans (I think,
I'm no expert of his work myself). Anyway, it's certainly not by
Van Horn.
If you are having a problem telling the difference between these
two artists; here's a good trick: Check the story code in the
first panel of the story. The code of all Heymans stories do, so
far as I know, always begin with the letter H. Van Horn's stories,
on the other hand, always begin with some other letter (AR, K or D
depending on how old it is). If you have any further questions
about what the codes mean, I suggest you look up Harry's file on
the subject on the FTP archive.
/F
I don't quite remember, but someone's probably already answered
this for you. Anyway, the story you referred to in last Egmont DD
issue with Donald's criminal cousin is by Mau Heymans (I think,
I'm no expert of his work myself). Anyway, it's certainly not by
Van Horn.
If you are having a problem telling the difference between these
two artists; here's a good trick: Check the story code in the
first panel of the story. The code of all Heymans stories do, so
far as I know, always begin with the letter H. Van Horn's stories,
on the other hand, always begin with some other letter (AR, K or D
depending on how old it is). If you have any further questions
about what the codes mean, I suggest you look up Harry's file on
the subject on the FTP archive.
/F
David A Gerstein
Heymans and Van Horn
Message 60 -
1994-05-09 at 02:55:41
Dear Folks,
The way I always tell Heymans from Van Horn is twofold.
A) The pupils of the eyes in Heymans' ducks frequently leave
the outlines of the eyes -- that is, the rim of the eye "breaks" a bit
before the pupil. It's like this:
XXXXXX
XXX XXX
XXXX XXX
XX XX
XX XX
XX XX
XX XX
XX XX
XX XX
XX <--- See the "Break"?
XX XXXX
XX XXXXXX
XX XXXXXX
XX X
XX XXXXXX
XX XXXXXX
XX XXX
XX <--- And there's another
XX XX
XXXX
Get the idea? What's more, Heymans gives the Ducks "pie-eyes"
(by that, I mean the slit in the pupil, as you see above), while Van
Horn hardly ever does (although he USED to do it all the time).
And...
B) Heymans' art maintains a "flowing" feeling to the
linework, while Van Horn's work is scratchier (if you're a fan of the
really old comic strips, compare "Mutt and Jeff" to "Krazy Kat" for a
similar example. I'm sure you have those in Europe by the ton, while
they're as good as forgotten in THIS swell country....
* * * * *
On another tack, here's something I bet a lot of you are
astonished I haven't asked before:
Are the comics of Norway, Sweden, and Finland all made by
divisions of Egmont? And for the most part, are they almost the same
between one another from week to week with the exception of covers?
I'm puzzled, because I thought so -- until I realized how the various
countries are doing different things with Don's stories these days.
What's the story here?
Furthermore, how do the German ones fit in? It seems to me
they use EVERYTHING Egmont produces, and, due to MM's larger
popularity there, they add a Murry reprint almost every week,
particularly when they don't have a new Egmont MM story to use. Or
are ALL the countries listed above just wallowing in Murry as well? I
don't get that impression...
In any event, the German ones usually run about 40-48 pages,
although it varies from week to week (with no affect on price). I
believe that this makes an overall larger comic than you get in
Finland, because I have a Finnish 45/1991 which is like a shorter
version of the German for that week.
Yeeesh! What's going ON? I used to think that aside from
covers and the occasional "special supplement issues" (i. e. GotLL,
Vicar time-travel stories, Grandma Duck 50th, reprints of 1st issues,
"In Search of Jungle Treasure" reprint, etc.) that the various Egmont
countries were the same. Or is one of these NOT an Egmont country?
What's up, Doc?
And last...
I think it was Harry who mentioned having actually seen Eli
Squinch show up in a recent Ferioli story -- this being the first sign
of changes in Egmont's MM stories. Could you tell me, Harry, what
this story is like, how Squinch is drawn, and what the code and page
count is (if it's GOOD, that is)?
Your friend,
David Gerstein
"I'm de Fuller Brush Man! I'm givin' g'way free semple!"
<David.A.Gerstein at Williams.edu>
The way I always tell Heymans from Van Horn is twofold.
A) The pupils of the eyes in Heymans' ducks frequently leave
the outlines of the eyes -- that is, the rim of the eye "breaks" a bit
before the pupil. It's like this:
XXXXXX
XXX XXX
XXXX XXX
XX XX
XX XX
XX XX
XX XX
XX XX
XX XX
XX <--- See the "Break"?
XX XXXX
XX XXXXXX
XX XXXXXX
XX X
XX XXXXXX
XX XXXXXX
XX XXX
XX <--- And there's another
XX XX
XXXX
Get the idea? What's more, Heymans gives the Ducks "pie-eyes"
(by that, I mean the slit in the pupil, as you see above), while Van
Horn hardly ever does (although he USED to do it all the time).
And...
B) Heymans' art maintains a "flowing" feeling to the
linework, while Van Horn's work is scratchier (if you're a fan of the
really old comic strips, compare "Mutt and Jeff" to "Krazy Kat" for a
similar example. I'm sure you have those in Europe by the ton, while
they're as good as forgotten in THIS swell country....
* * * * *
On another tack, here's something I bet a lot of you are
astonished I haven't asked before:
Are the comics of Norway, Sweden, and Finland all made by
divisions of Egmont? And for the most part, are they almost the same
between one another from week to week with the exception of covers?
I'm puzzled, because I thought so -- until I realized how the various
countries are doing different things with Don's stories these days.
What's the story here?
Furthermore, how do the German ones fit in? It seems to me
they use EVERYTHING Egmont produces, and, due to MM's larger
popularity there, they add a Murry reprint almost every week,
particularly when they don't have a new Egmont MM story to use. Or
are ALL the countries listed above just wallowing in Murry as well? I
don't get that impression...
In any event, the German ones usually run about 40-48 pages,
although it varies from week to week (with no affect on price). I
believe that this makes an overall larger comic than you get in
Finland, because I have a Finnish 45/1991 which is like a shorter
version of the German for that week.
Yeeesh! What's going ON? I used to think that aside from
covers and the occasional "special supplement issues" (i. e. GotLL,
Vicar time-travel stories, Grandma Duck 50th, reprints of 1st issues,
"In Search of Jungle Treasure" reprint, etc.) that the various Egmont
countries were the same. Or is one of these NOT an Egmont country?
What's up, Doc?
And last...
I think it was Harry who mentioned having actually seen Eli
Squinch show up in a recent Ferioli story -- this being the first sign
of changes in Egmont's MM stories. Could you tell me, Harry, what
this story is like, how Squinch is drawn, and what the code and page
count is (if it's GOOD, that is)?
Your friend,
David Gerstein
"I'm de Fuller Brush Man! I'm givin' g'way free semple!"
<David.A.Gerstein at Williams.edu>