Kind of off-topic, but the official Chuck Jones site is:
http://www.chuckjones.com/
Author
Topic: 200203
(140 messages)
Shelley Hanson
Chuck Jones site
Message 16 -
2002-03-04 at 23:25:08
François Willot
Diatribes on Moby Duck
Message 17 -
2002-03-05 at 02:20:54
Gilles -
Moby Duck in Mickey-Parade?!?! What kind of production is it? Reprints? Old
US comics?
Is he still spelled Moby Dick? I haven't got the latest Mickey-Parade yet
but I am waiting forward to see it. Moby represents Kay Wright's & Gil-Bao's
style to me. He is like Madame Mim. A no-character, a ghost, a zombie, a
nobody. I'm surprised you like him so much... He disappeared long before I
bought my first comics, and you are younger than me.
If Mickey-Parade is reprinting Kay Wright and at the same time refuse to
publish dozens of Scarpa and Bottaro they have never published, where are we
going?!? And then they complain they have nothing to publish? (But then of
course, you need to write a translation from scratch when reprinting
unpublished stories. I suspect that's a decisive factor when deciding which
story to use).
>I will soon help you to index all the missing PM, and all the other
magazines I told you about,
>I just need time, you know. Just warn me, if somebody already indexed them!
You're welcome, send me a mail when you have something!
>Since last two months, Mickey Parade has been changed:
>It is bigger, with more pages, more informations about the stories, and
>a new name: Mickey Parade G?ant (Giant MP). It is very good!
I have only seen the first issue. It contains as much as two Mickey Parade,
but not much more than what was in the first one in 1966... the number of
pages have diminuished a lot in the last 20 years.
>Will you change the indexing abbreviation for Mickey Parade? It hasn't
>the same name, but the number of the issues are kept...
For this reason, I would like to keep it the same. It's still "Mickey
Parade" (MP) to collectors and fans.
There is a not-so-good abbreviation for the first series (MPP =
Mickey-Parade premi?re) from the day when the number of characters was
limited. But changing it is complicate now, and... I'm not too picky on
abbreviations.
>There are also in another story from the magazine two characters I like
>who hadn't been spoken about for a long time : Gilbert and Witch
>Hazel!!! A real pleasure!
It has been a long time... Witch Hazel? Maybe a Bottaro story?
Francois
Moby Duck in Mickey-Parade?!?! What kind of production is it? Reprints? Old
US comics?
Is he still spelled Moby Dick? I haven't got the latest Mickey-Parade yet
but I am waiting forward to see it. Moby represents Kay Wright's & Gil-Bao's
style to me. He is like Madame Mim. A no-character, a ghost, a zombie, a
nobody. I'm surprised you like him so much... He disappeared long before I
bought my first comics, and you are younger than me.
If Mickey-Parade is reprinting Kay Wright and at the same time refuse to
publish dozens of Scarpa and Bottaro they have never published, where are we
going?!? And then they complain they have nothing to publish? (But then of
course, you need to write a translation from scratch when reprinting
unpublished stories. I suspect that's a decisive factor when deciding which
story to use).
>I will soon help you to index all the missing PM, and all the other
magazines I told you about,
>I just need time, you know. Just warn me, if somebody already indexed them!
You're welcome, send me a mail when you have something!
>Since last two months, Mickey Parade has been changed:
>It is bigger, with more pages, more informations about the stories, and
>a new name: Mickey Parade G?ant (Giant MP). It is very good!
I have only seen the first issue. It contains as much as two Mickey Parade,
but not much more than what was in the first one in 1966... the number of
pages have diminuished a lot in the last 20 years.
>Will you change the indexing abbreviation for Mickey Parade? It hasn't
>the same name, but the number of the issues are kept...
For this reason, I would like to keep it the same. It's still "Mickey
Parade" (MP) to collectors and fans.
There is a not-so-good abbreviation for the first series (MPP =
Mickey-Parade premi?re) from the day when the number of characters was
limited. But changing it is complicate now, and... I'm not too picky on
abbreviations.
>There are also in another story from the magazine two characters I like
>who hadn't been spoken about for a long time : Gilbert and Witch
>Hazel!!! A real pleasure!
It has been a long time... Witch Hazel? Maybe a Bottaro story?
Francois
Fernando Ventura
François: Moby!
Message 18 -
2002-03-05 at 06:53:06
Fran?ois:
>Moby Duck in Mickey-Parade?!?! What kind of production is it? Reprints? Old
>US comics?
>Is he still spelled Moby Dick? I haven't got the latest Mickey-Parade yet
>but I am waiting forward to see it. Moby represents Kay Wright's &
Gil-Bao's
>style to me. He is like Madame Mim. A no-character, a ghost, a zombie, a
>nobody.
Ahn.......I suppose it's the new Moby's adventures created by the
italians...I didn't read anything of it yet, I just saw it into an italian
comic some time ago.
Unfortunattely, nothing of it here in Brazil yet...! (Weel, we have Witch
now!)
Weel, I like Moby...I don't know why, but I like him!
Since we don't know a lot about it, i think some italian member can talk us
a few about this "new"(?)Moby!
See ya!
Fernando!
>Moby Duck in Mickey-Parade?!?! What kind of production is it? Reprints? Old
>US comics?
>Is he still spelled Moby Dick? I haven't got the latest Mickey-Parade yet
>but I am waiting forward to see it. Moby represents Kay Wright's &
Gil-Bao's
>style to me. He is like Madame Mim. A no-character, a ghost, a zombie, a
>nobody.
Ahn.......I suppose it's the new Moby's adventures created by the
italians...I didn't read anything of it yet, I just saw it into an italian
comic some time ago.
Unfortunattely, nothing of it here in Brazil yet...! (Weel, we have Witch
now!)
Weel, I like Moby...I don't know why, but I like him!
Since we don't know a lot about it, i think some italian member can talk us
a few about this "new"(?)Moby!
See ya!
Fernando!
Luigi Caponetto
Newbie request: which story is...
Message 19 -
2002-03-05 at 18:34:27
Hello world!
since this is my first posting to the ML (but I had been a curious
reader for about one year) I'd shortly introduce myself: I'm a male,
italian, 32 years old electronics engineer which recently (thanks
to all you people!) re-discovered old and new disney comics.
And now my question.
Suddendly a few days ago, it comes to my mind a story that I've
probably read into some mid-80s *topolino* (the story is written
in italian).
It was about a sort of realm (held by a queen? maybe all the
inhabitants were female?) which is located *under* the sea bed
(not far from duckburg coast).
The only communication way to the outside world is constitued
by a sort of funnel which (under some circustancies?) may appear
above the sea level: the larger end is the part appearing above
the sea level while the smaller end is directly under the sea bed.
since this is my first posting to the ML (but I had been a curious
reader for about one year) I'd shortly introduce myself: I'm a male,
italian, 32 years old electronics engineer which recently (thanks
to all you people!) re-discovered old and new disney comics.
And now my question.
Suddendly a few days ago, it comes to my mind a story that I've
probably read into some mid-80s *topolino* (the story is written
in italian).
It was about a sort of realm (held by a queen? maybe all the
inhabitants were female?) which is located *under* the sea bed
(not far from duckburg coast).
The only communication way to the outside world is constitued
by a sort of funnel which (under some circustancies?) may appear
above the sea level: the larger end is the part appearing above
the sea level while the smaller end is directly under the sea bed.
Paolo Castagno
Newbie request: which story is...
Message 20 -
2002-03-05 at 18:55:41
Hi Luigi, welcome among us!
> And now my question.
> Suddendly a few days ago, it comes to my mind a story that I've
> probably read into some mid-80s *topolino* (the story is written
> in italian).
The story should be "Zio Paperone e il casco d'oro", a funny
story by Scarpa, the curiosity is that the plot was suggested to
Scarpa directly by Barks.
Take a look at
http://www2.ec-lille.fr/willot/coa/c1/story.php/5/I+TL+1061-A/
Ciao,
- Paolo
--
http://digilander.iol.it/inducks mailto:p.castagno at libero.it
"Parigi...la moda...i negozi...il Nilo!"
(Paperina in I TL 984-A)
> And now my question.
> Suddendly a few days ago, it comes to my mind a story that I've
> probably read into some mid-80s *topolino* (the story is written
> in italian).
The story should be "Zio Paperone e il casco d'oro", a funny
story by Scarpa, the curiosity is that the plot was suggested to
Scarpa directly by Barks.
Take a look at
http://www2.ec-lille.fr/willot/coa/c1/story.php/5/I+TL+1061-A/
Ciao,
- Paolo
--
http://digilander.iol.it/inducks mailto:p.castagno at libero.it
"Parigi...la moda...i negozi...il Nilo!"
(Paperina in I TL 984-A)
Goofy313g
Moby
Message 21 -
2002-03-05 at 22:05:18
Hi!
Moby first appears in a cartoon, I think. I have a little text about him in
my Duck Family Tree:
http://goofy313g.free.fr/calisota_online/trees/myducktree.html
Rich's site had a lot of informations about him... We really miss sites such
as his :-((
I wish I had downloaded all of his pages before it shut down :-(
He is still called Toby Dick in french. He is on the cover with Fethry!
The story is from 2001!!!
It is a new birth for him!
It is called "Les chroniques de la baie", (Le storie della
baia",topolino#2380) and is written by Silvio Camboni (text by Alberto
Savini). It has references from Corto Maltese, according to the introduction.
They say in MP that Moby first appeared in a comic in 1967, but I am sure it
is in a cartoon, believe me! I think I remember it was about 1965.
The other story I liked is from Silvia ziche and is from topolino 2030, it is
a parody of "les fourberies de scapin", and Hazel? Arizona Goof and Gilbert
are spectators, Eega is the narrator, and the other are the actors...
No, Disney comics characters aren't dead, and it is just the beginning,
believe me!
Gilles
Moby first appears in a cartoon, I think. I have a little text about him in
my Duck Family Tree:
http://goofy313g.free.fr/calisota_online/trees/myducktree.html
Rich's site had a lot of informations about him... We really miss sites such
as his :-((
I wish I had downloaded all of his pages before it shut down :-(
He is still called Toby Dick in french. He is on the cover with Fethry!
The story is from 2001!!!
It is a new birth for him!
It is called "Les chroniques de la baie", (Le storie della
baia",topolino#2380) and is written by Silvio Camboni (text by Alberto
Savini). It has references from Corto Maltese, according to the introduction.
They say in MP that Moby first appeared in a comic in 1967, but I am sure it
is in a cartoon, believe me! I think I remember it was about 1965.
The other story I liked is from Silvia ziche and is from topolino 2030, it is
a parody of "les fourberies de scapin", and Hazel? Arizona Goof and Gilbert
are spectators, Eega is the narrator, and the other are the actors...
No, Disney comics characters aren't dead, and it is just the beginning,
believe me!
Gilles
Eta Beta
Newbie request: which story is...
Message 22 -
2002-03-06 at 14:07:10
Hello Luigi, hi Paolo
>> And now my question.
>> Suddendly a few days ago, it comes to my mind a story that I've
>> probably read into some mid-80s *topolino* (the story is written
>> in italian).
>
>The story should be "Zio Paperone e il casco d'oro", a funny
>story by Scarpa, the curiosity is that the plot was suggested to
>Scarpa directly by Barks.
>
>Take a look at
>
>http://www2.ec-lille.fr/willot/coa/c1/story.php/5/I+TL+1061-A/
Also, you might want to take a look at
http://eega.net/magic/pocket.html
Follow the links to "The Last Balaboo", Story Index, 1976, and
you'll find the story's first page.
Cheers
Eta Beta
>> And now my question.
>> Suddendly a few days ago, it comes to my mind a story that I've
>> probably read into some mid-80s *topolino* (the story is written
>> in italian).
>
>The story should be "Zio Paperone e il casco d'oro", a funny
>story by Scarpa, the curiosity is that the plot was suggested to
>Scarpa directly by Barks.
>
>Take a look at
>
>http://www2.ec-lille.fr/willot/coa/c1/story.php/5/I+TL+1061-A/
Also, you might want to take a look at
http://eega.net/magic/pocket.html
Follow the links to "The Last Balaboo", Story Index, 1976, and
you'll find the story's first page.
Cheers
Eta Beta
Campbell, Alex
Status of Uncle Scrooge Comics
Message 23 -
2002-03-06 at 18:30:09
What is the status of Uncle Scrooge comics?
I see that Gladstone and Disney have been in negotiations, but I can't find
any new Uncle Scrooge comics in US or GB.
========================
Alex Campbell
DSTI, 301-315-9200 x6321
I see that Gladstone and Disney have been in negotiations, but I can't find
any new Uncle Scrooge comics in US or GB.
========================
Alex Campbell
DSTI, 301-315-9200 x6321
Fabricio Grellet
WITCH Info
Message 24 -
2002-03-07 at 09:26:08
Friends:
Here's my situation: W.I.T.C.H., the first issue, was recently released here in Brazil. And I need to do an article about it BUT there's a small (small?!) problem: Lack of credits in the Brazilian edition.
So, if you can help me, I need to know who created it, why, how, for what... and what does the Disney have to do DIRECTLY with it - not only because they own the company in which this product was generated (as far as I know).
So... That's it!
Thanks.
FABRICIO GRELLET
Here's my situation: W.I.T.C.H., the first issue, was recently released here in Brazil. And I need to do an article about it BUT there's a small (small?!) problem: Lack of credits in the Brazilian edition.
So, if you can help me, I need to know who created it, why, how, for what... and what does the Disney have to do DIRECTLY with it - not only because they own the company in which this product was generated (as far as I know).
So... That's it!
Thanks.
FABRICIO GRELLET
Francesco Spreafico
WITCH Info
Message 25 -
2002-03-07 at 09:40:46
From: Fabricio Grellet <fgrellet at canbrasnet.com.br>
> So, if you can help me, I need to know who created it, why, how, for
> what... and what does the Disney have to do DIRECTLY with it - not only
> because they own the company in which this product was generated (as far
as
> I know).
You can find all the data about the first issue of Witch (and the following)
in the Inducks Database:
http://www2.ec-lille.fr/willot/coa/c1/issue.php/0/it/W+++++1 for the first
issue and so on.
The main info (the story) is:
Title: Halloween (60 p.)
Plot: Elisabetta Gnone
Story: Francesco Artibani, Elisabetta Gnone
Art: Alessandro Barbucci
Ink: Donald Soffritti
Color hints by Barbara Canepa
Colors by Mara Damiani
Disney had everything to do with it, it was a project born and developed
inside of Disney (If I got your question right... no, it's not an external
thing produced by Disney by chance).
--
Sprea
> So, if you can help me, I need to know who created it, why, how, for
> what... and what does the Disney have to do DIRECTLY with it - not only
> because they own the company in which this product was generated (as far
as
> I know).
You can find all the data about the first issue of Witch (and the following)
in the Inducks Database:
http://www2.ec-lille.fr/willot/coa/c1/issue.php/0/it/W+++++1 for the first
issue and so on.
The main info (the story) is:
Title: Halloween (60 p.)
Plot: Elisabetta Gnone
Story: Francesco Artibani, Elisabetta Gnone
Art: Alessandro Barbucci
Ink: Donald Soffritti
Color hints by Barbara Canepa
Colors by Mara Damiani
Disney had everything to do with it, it was a project born and developed
inside of Disney (If I got your question right... no, it's not an external
thing produced by Disney by chance).
--
Sprea
L. Schulte
Duckburg.dk Greeting Cards
Message 26 -
2002-03-07 at 15:00:15
Does anyone know what has happened with the Don Rosa greeting cards on the
Duckburg website from Denmark? It no longer works.
I have sent an e-mail to them asking what has happened, but so far no response.
Thanks!
Duckburg website from Denmark? It no longer works.
I have sent an e-mail to them asking what has happened, but so far no response.
Thanks!
Luigi Caponetto
Newbie request: which story is...
Message 27 -
2002-03-07 at 21:47:04
Many thanks to Paolo and Eta Beta for their answer.
Eega, your site is really good: I knew it but this has been the
first time I've *really* browse it.
I've also discovered that most of my favourite Scarpa's has been
written in '76...
ciao
luigi
Eta Beta wrote:
> Hello Luigi, hi Paolo
>
> >> And now my question.
> >> Suddendly a few days ago, it comes to my mind a story that I've
> >> probably read into some mid-80s *topolino* (the story is written
> >> in italian).
> >
> >The story should be "Zio Paperone e il casco d'oro", a funny
> >story by Scarpa, the curiosity is that the plot was suggested to
> >Scarpa directly by Barks.
> >
> >Take a look at
> >
> >http://www2.ec-lille.fr/willot/coa/c1/story.php/5/I+TL+1061-A/
>
> Also, you might want to take a look at
>
> http://eega.net/magic/pocket.html
>
> Follow the links to "The Last Balaboo", Story Index, 1976, and
> you'll find the story's first page.
>
> Cheers
>
> Eta Beta
>
Eega, your site is really good: I knew it but this has been the
first time I've *really* browse it.
I've also discovered that most of my favourite Scarpa's has been
written in '76...
ciao
luigi
Eta Beta wrote:
> Hello Luigi, hi Paolo
>
> >> And now my question.
> >> Suddendly a few days ago, it comes to my mind a story that I've
> >> probably read into some mid-80s *topolino* (the story is written
> >> in italian).
> >
> >The story should be "Zio Paperone e il casco d'oro", a funny
> >story by Scarpa, the curiosity is that the plot was suggested to
> >Scarpa directly by Barks.
> >
> >Take a look at
> >
> >http://www2.ec-lille.fr/willot/coa/c1/story.php/5/I+TL+1061-A/
>
> Also, you might want to take a look at
>
> http://eega.net/magic/pocket.html
>
> Follow the links to "The Last Balaboo", Story Index, 1976, and
> you'll find the story's first page.
>
> Cheers
>
> Eta Beta
>
Archontis Pantsios
MIKY MAOUS et al.
Message 28 -
2002-03-08 at 17:49:14
Fellow Quackeroos:
Here's what hit the Greek stands last week:
1) MIKY MAOUS #1859, March 1, 2002 (100 pages; cover price: 1.17 euro)
a) Mickey Mouse in "La breve 'vacanza'", from "Topolino" #1466, 1984 (32
pages). Script: Bruno Concina; Art: Romano Scarpa
b) Sgrizzo Duck in "Sgrizzo uomo del futuro", from "Topolino" #2236, 1998
(28 pages). Script & Art: Enrico Faccini
c) Goofy in "3*2", from "Topolino" #2297, 1999 (8 pages). Script: Tito
Faraci; Art: Silvia Zike
d) Chip & Dale in "The Rivals", W.C.N.D #9, 7 pages. Script: Unknown; Art:
Jack Bradbury
2) ALMANAKO #133, March 2002 (100 pages; cover price: 1.75 euro)
a) Indiana Goofy in "Il prezioso recupero", from "Topolino" #2379, 2001 (30
pages). Script: Paola Mulazzi; Art: Roberto Vian
b) Donald Duck in "Double Promise", from "Paperinik" #78, 1999 (30 pages).
Script: Enzo Mina; Art: Carlo Limido
3) MINNI #66, March 2002 (100 pages; cover price: 1.75 euro)
a) Daisy Duck in "Il primo amore non si scorda mai?", from "Topolino" #2118,
1996 (23 pages). Script: Bruno Concina; Art: Andrea Freccero
b) Minnie & Melody in "La dolce cotta", from "Minni" #83, 2000 (8 pages).
Script: Giustina Porcelli; Art: Pier Carpi
c) Daisy Duck in "Paperina copywriter", from "Topolino" #2279, 1999 (28
pages). Script: Caterina Mognato; Art: Roberta Migheli
'Til next time,
Archontis
--------------------------------------------------
Archontis L. Pantsios, Ph.D.
Assistant Academic Dean & Professor of Economics
The American College of Thessaloniki
Thessaloniki--GREECE
Phone #: +30-310-398228
Here's what hit the Greek stands last week:
1) MIKY MAOUS #1859, March 1, 2002 (100 pages; cover price: 1.17 euro)
a) Mickey Mouse in "La breve 'vacanza'", from "Topolino" #1466, 1984 (32
pages). Script: Bruno Concina; Art: Romano Scarpa
b) Sgrizzo Duck in "Sgrizzo uomo del futuro", from "Topolino" #2236, 1998
(28 pages). Script & Art: Enrico Faccini
c) Goofy in "3*2", from "Topolino" #2297, 1999 (8 pages). Script: Tito
Faraci; Art: Silvia Zike
d) Chip & Dale in "The Rivals", W.C.N.D #9, 7 pages. Script: Unknown; Art:
Jack Bradbury
2) ALMANAKO #133, March 2002 (100 pages; cover price: 1.75 euro)
a) Indiana Goofy in "Il prezioso recupero", from "Topolino" #2379, 2001 (30
pages). Script: Paola Mulazzi; Art: Roberto Vian
b) Donald Duck in "Double Promise", from "Paperinik" #78, 1999 (30 pages).
Script: Enzo Mina; Art: Carlo Limido
3) MINNI #66, March 2002 (100 pages; cover price: 1.75 euro)
a) Daisy Duck in "Il primo amore non si scorda mai?", from "Topolino" #2118,
1996 (23 pages). Script: Bruno Concina; Art: Andrea Freccero
b) Minnie & Melody in "La dolce cotta", from "Minni" #83, 2000 (8 pages).
Script: Giustina Porcelli; Art: Pier Carpi
c) Daisy Duck in "Paperina copywriter", from "Topolino" #2279, 1999 (28
pages). Script: Caterina Mognato; Art: Roberta Migheli
'Til next time,
Archontis
--------------------------------------------------
Archontis L. Pantsios, Ph.D.
Assistant Academic Dean & Professor of Economics
The American College of Thessaloniki
Thessaloniki--GREECE
Phone #: +30-310-398228
Marco Barlotti
Back to school... or back to Cibola?
Message 29 -
2002-03-10 at 13:55:03
Is a lucky owner of "Dell Giant" #35 (October 1960) on this list?
He might help us Italians to identify a 22-pages, 3-tiers story that
appeared on issue #261 of "Topolino".
This is a remake of Barks' "Seven cities of Cibola" but begins at HDL's
school. Donald is their theacher and he announces to the class that they
won a sort of "Fullbright scholarship" ;-) to visit a faraway island.
We suspect this to be the FIRST story of the comic book (16 pages but
4-tiered) whose title is "HDL Back to school".
However the title just doesn't sound right for the plot. And the whole
story seems to be misplaced among the other, simpler, stories of that issue
35 of "Dell Giant".
So anyone who checks will do us a big favour.
Ah, I almost forgot...
In the Inducks we have a description of that "Back to school" story...
only, it's in Finnish:
>veljenpoikien matkattua koululaisvaihto-ohjelman puitteissa sumuiselle
>V?limeren saarelle, osoittautuu saari hyl?tyksi koska kerran kuukaudessa
>sammuneen tulivuoren takaa tulevat karvaiset oliot ry?st?v?t kaiken ruuan
(and we are not even certain that this describes the right story...)
Thanks!
Marco
http://www.cce.unifi.it/~marcobar/DisneyIndex
http://www.cce.unifi.it/~marcobar/Comics
He might help us Italians to identify a 22-pages, 3-tiers story that
appeared on issue #261 of "Topolino".
This is a remake of Barks' "Seven cities of Cibola" but begins at HDL's
school. Donald is their theacher and he announces to the class that they
won a sort of "Fullbright scholarship" ;-) to visit a faraway island.
We suspect this to be the FIRST story of the comic book (16 pages but
4-tiered) whose title is "HDL Back to school".
However the title just doesn't sound right for the plot. And the whole
story seems to be misplaced among the other, simpler, stories of that issue
35 of "Dell Giant".
So anyone who checks will do us a big favour.
Ah, I almost forgot...
In the Inducks we have a description of that "Back to school" story...
only, it's in Finnish:
>veljenpoikien matkattua koululaisvaihto-ohjelman puitteissa sumuiselle
>V?limeren saarelle, osoittautuu saari hyl?tyksi koska kerran kuukaudessa
>sammuneen tulivuoren takaa tulevat karvaiset oliot ry?st?v?t kaiken ruuan
(and we are not even certain that this describes the right story...)
Thanks!
Marco
http://www.cce.unifi.it/~marcobar/DisneyIndex
http://www.cce.unifi.it/~marcobar/Comics
Jussi Mantere
OT: is the list down or did I fall?
Message 30 -
2002-03-11 at 08:09:05
Sorry for being offtopic, but just had to test...
No mail on the list for 3-4 days (which seems quite unusual:), so I was
wondering whether the list server is down or my address has dropped of the
list?
-jussi
--
. jussi mantere
. http://www.iki.fi/obs/
. learned more from a three minute record
.. than we ever learned in school
No mail on the list for 3-4 days (which seems quite unusual:), so I was
wondering whether the list server is down or my address has dropped of the
list?
-jussi
--
. jussi mantere
. http://www.iki.fi/obs/
. learned more from a three minute record
.. than we ever learned in school