DON:
> But the resultant comic would *still* lack that extra little sparkle of
> being written and drawn by a single mind.
On the other hand, to continue the Gosciny/Uderzo analogy, the Asterix stories
that were written after Gosciny's death lack that extra little sparkle of
being written and drawn by *two* minds!!!
Kriton.
-----
"Even in this corner of the galaxy, captain, two plus two equals four!"
-----
Author
Topic: 200408
(213 messages)
Kriton Kyrimis
DCML Digest Issue 24
Message 136 -
2004-08-20 at 17:00:36
Gary Leach
Thats and thems
Message 137 -
2004-08-20 at 20:22:34
Dean,
> As I watched the movie I saw why this movie would be especially
> appropriate for including a Gemstone order form. The narrator (a
> turtle) begins telling the story by reading out of a comic book. And
> when the film ends, the credits are given in a comic book format. I
> noticed that the comic book the turtle is reading is priced 25 cents.
Disney animator: Say, we should put a price on this comic. Whattaya
think?
Animation supervisor: Hmm...last time I bought a comic, I think I paid
25 cents.
Disney animator: Sounds good to me.
> So, Gary, do we have any 25 cent comics books from Gemstone to look
> forward to in the near future? :)
Not officially.
Marvin,
> Leonard Maltin, the film critic and narrator/coordinator for the
> Disney Treasures DVD's, has included clips of?covers?from the?early
> 1930 and 1940?Mickey Mouse Magazine and? Walt Disney Comics and
> Stories in the Wave 3 Donald Duck DVD. I have recently sent email to
> his web site www.leonardmaltin.com?saying that it would be nice if in
> future DVDs he could?also show some of the latest covers and even
> mention Gemstone to help revitalize Disney comics. I hope others will
> also write to him to help achieve the same.
Thanks for bringing this up. It sure couldn't hurt.
Harry,
> Don Rosa wrote:
>
>> I am of the school of thought that a
>> comic book script and art should be done by a single person
>> to have that special spark.
>
> Goscinny and Uderzo made wonderful Asterix stories together.
Yes they did - they were a real team. I have enjoyed the Asterix
stories Uderzo himself has written, but they just don't have that
special spark of the classic Goscinny/Uderzo collaborations.
Gary
> As I watched the movie I saw why this movie would be especially
> appropriate for including a Gemstone order form. The narrator (a
> turtle) begins telling the story by reading out of a comic book. And
> when the film ends, the credits are given in a comic book format. I
> noticed that the comic book the turtle is reading is priced 25 cents.
Disney animator: Say, we should put a price on this comic. Whattaya
think?
Animation supervisor: Hmm...last time I bought a comic, I think I paid
25 cents.
Disney animator: Sounds good to me.
> So, Gary, do we have any 25 cent comics books from Gemstone to look
> forward to in the near future? :)
Not officially.
Marvin,
> Leonard Maltin, the film critic and narrator/coordinator for the
> Disney Treasures DVD's, has included clips of?covers?from the?early
> 1930 and 1940?Mickey Mouse Magazine and? Walt Disney Comics and
> Stories in the Wave 3 Donald Duck DVD. I have recently sent email to
> his web site www.leonardmaltin.com?saying that it would be nice if in
> future DVDs he could?also show some of the latest covers and even
> mention Gemstone to help revitalize Disney comics. I hope others will
> also write to him to help achieve the same.
Thanks for bringing this up. It sure couldn't hurt.
Harry,
> Don Rosa wrote:
>
>> I am of the school of thought that a
>> comic book script and art should be done by a single person
>> to have that special spark.
>
> Goscinny and Uderzo made wonderful Asterix stories together.
Yes they did - they were a real team. I have enjoyed the Asterix
stories Uderzo himself has written, but they just don't have that
special spark of the classic Goscinny/Uderzo collaborations.
Gary
Theresa Wiegert
Sparks
Message 138 -
2004-08-20 at 20:59:06
> >> I am of the school of thought that a
> >> comic book script and art should be done by a single person
> >> to have that special spark.
> >
> > Goscinny and Uderzo made wonderful Asterix stories together.
>
> Yes they did - they were a real team. I have enjoyed the Asterix
> stories Uderzo himself has written, but they just don't have that
> special spark of the classic Goscinny/Uderzo collaborations.
But that all comes back to what you are used to as the original form,
doesn't it? The original Asterix was made by a duo. Original Rosa stuff
is a one-person job. Changing any of that makes the comic somewhat lose
the 'spark', because it's not the original, what we are used to and love,
anymore.
The new thing could of course also be good... but it would be a new thing,
i e not really comparable in my opinion!
cheers!
/Theresa
> >> comic book script and art should be done by a single person
> >> to have that special spark.
> >
> > Goscinny and Uderzo made wonderful Asterix stories together.
>
> Yes they did - they were a real team. I have enjoyed the Asterix
> stories Uderzo himself has written, but they just don't have that
> special spark of the classic Goscinny/Uderzo collaborations.
But that all comes back to what you are used to as the original form,
doesn't it? The original Asterix was made by a duo. Original Rosa stuff
is a one-person job. Changing any of that makes the comic somewhat lose
the 'spark', because it's not the original, what we are used to and love,
anymore.
The new thing could of course also be good... but it would be a new thing,
i e not really comparable in my opinion!
cheers!
/Theresa
JTorci3511
Three Musketeers 25 Cent Comic?
Message 139 -
2004-08-21 at 00:02:15
Dean and Everyone:
Dean writes:
"The narrator (a turtle) begins telling the story by reading out of a comic book. And when the film ends, the credits are given in a comic book format. I noticed that the comic book the turtle is reading is priced 25 cents. >>
Well, it *IS* supposed to be a historical period piece! :-)
Joe Torcivia (...wonders why they didn't go for TEN or TWELVE CENTS as the cover price -- thus, making the issue from the truly "classic era"!)
Dean writes:
"The narrator (a turtle) begins telling the story by reading out of a comic book. And when the film ends, the credits are given in a comic book format. I noticed that the comic book the turtle is reading is priced 25 cents. >>
Well, it *IS* supposed to be a historical period piece! :-)
Joe Torcivia (...wonders why they didn't go for TEN or TWELVE CENTS as the cover price -- thus, making the issue from the truly "classic era"!)
JTorci3511
Uncle Scrooge #332 5,405 Circulation.
Message 140 -
2004-08-21 at 00:11:36
Mickey writes:
"Uncle Scrooge #332 5,405.
And they still think that this elite of 5000 readers counts most children....O_O (About a thousand of them should be members of this list...)"
Very interesting point, Mickey! Would you, or someone on this list (...I don't have the time to do so, or I would) volunteer to tally up the number of American Direct Market readers on this list who are among those hallowed 5,405?
You can count me as a "forty-something-ish" one of those 5,405 American readers. Let's hear from the rest of you. A final tally of this would be informative, at the very least.
Oh, and remember that SALES of 5,405 do not exactly translate into 5,405 READERS. A certain amount of copies will remain unsold, or could be sold as duplicates.
Joe Torcivia.
"Uncle Scrooge #332 5,405.
And they still think that this elite of 5000 readers counts most children....O_O (About a thousand of them should be members of this list...)"
Very interesting point, Mickey! Would you, or someone on this list (...I don't have the time to do so, or I would) volunteer to tally up the number of American Direct Market readers on this list who are among those hallowed 5,405?
You can count me as a "forty-something-ish" one of those 5,405 American readers. Let's hear from the rest of you. A final tally of this would be informative, at the very least.
Oh, and remember that SALES of 5,405 do not exactly translate into 5,405 READERS. A certain amount of copies will remain unsold, or could be sold as duplicates.
Joe Torcivia.
Lars Jensen
That special spark
Message 141 -
2004-08-21 at 01:28:50
Don Rosa wrote:
>> I am of the school of thought that a
>> comic book script and art should be done by a single person
>> to have that special spark.
I'm not sure I understand that remark.
Don, are you saying that comics such as The Spirit, Modesty Blaise,
Watchmen, most of Asterix, most of Tintin and anything from Alan Moore,
Neil Gaiman and Grant Morrison are by definition incapable of catching
that "special spark"? Would you prefer reading a title from a
writer/artist such as, say, Todd McFarlane to one from a writer/artist
team such as Goscinny and Uderzo? (Just to pick some names.)
There are a number of artists out there who, after a few years, begin to
write their own stories. Sometimes they can pull it off, most times they
can't. Result: A lot of comic books with good artwork and bad writing.
Why is that a good thing?
Writer Steven Grant wrote a little about this "single person" attitude a
few weeks ago in his "Master of the Obvious" column at Comic Book
Resources. In the midst of discussing factionalization in the comics
industry, he mentioned the 1990s' "Creator's Bill Of Rights". Click
here:
http://www.comicbookresources.com/columns/index.cgi?
column=pd&article=1950 and read from "For a long time factionalization
has torn and weakened" on.
Why factionalize the comic book industry by dividing its members into
"creators who both write and draw their stories" and "people whose
stories don't have that special spark"?
I'd rather read a good story made by two or more people, than a bad
story made by one person. That's *my* school of thought.
Lars
>> I am of the school of thought that a
>> comic book script and art should be done by a single person
>> to have that special spark.
I'm not sure I understand that remark.
Don, are you saying that comics such as The Spirit, Modesty Blaise,
Watchmen, most of Asterix, most of Tintin and anything from Alan Moore,
Neil Gaiman and Grant Morrison are by definition incapable of catching
that "special spark"? Would you prefer reading a title from a
writer/artist such as, say, Todd McFarlane to one from a writer/artist
team such as Goscinny and Uderzo? (Just to pick some names.)
There are a number of artists out there who, after a few years, begin to
write their own stories. Sometimes they can pull it off, most times they
can't. Result: A lot of comic books with good artwork and bad writing.
Why is that a good thing?
Writer Steven Grant wrote a little about this "single person" attitude a
few weeks ago in his "Master of the Obvious" column at Comic Book
Resources. In the midst of discussing factionalization in the comics
industry, he mentioned the 1990s' "Creator's Bill Of Rights". Click
here:
http://www.comicbookresources.com/columns/index.cgi?
column=pd&article=1950 and read from "For a long time factionalization
has torn and weakened" on.
Why factionalize the comic book industry by dividing its members into
"creators who both write and draw their stories" and "people whose
stories don't have that special spark"?
I'd rather read a good story made by two or more people, than a bad
story made by one person. That's *my* school of thought.
Lars
Don Rosa
DCML Digest Issue 26
Message 142 -
2004-08-21 at 16:16:03
> From: "Lars Jensen" <lpj at forfatter.dk>
> Subject: That special spark
> I'm not sure I understand that remark.
> Don, are you saying that comics such as The Spirit, Modesty Blaise,
> Watchmen, most of Asterix, most of Tintin and anything from Alan Moore,
> Neil Gaiman and Grant Morrison are by definition incapable of catching
> that "special spark"?
Yes, I am. Because that "special spark" I refer to is the spark of a single
individual's creative ability. Two people can never equal one person. No
matter how good they are, those comics can never be the single vision of a
single mind. That's magical.
> Would you prefer reading a title from a
> writer/artist such as, say, Todd McFarlane to one from a writer/artist
> team such as Goscinny and Uderzo? (Just to pick some names.)
I never said I always preferred single-person comics. But I maintain they
are, by obvious definition, something extra special. I am never particularly
proud of my writing. And I actually don't think I draw well. But I am
*intensely* proud that I do *both*... together that gives my work a sparkle
that surpasses any collaborative effort, even though it might not be as
enjoyable on another level.
> There are a number of artists out there who, after a few years, begin to
> write their own stories. Sometimes they can pull it off, most times they
> can't. Result: A lot of comic books with good artwork and bad writing.
> Why is that a good thing?
It's hard to explain. Maybe it's sorta like a really gorgeous plastic
houseplant compared to a really ordinary LIVE houseplant with blemishes and
a few dead leaves. The live houseplant might not be what some people want,
and might not be what anybody wants all the time -- but it has that special
magic, that inner sparkle merely because it's *alive*. But... this is a
philosophical matter that I would need a writer to help me explain (and then
the team-explanation, no matter how compelling, would not have that
sparkle).
> Why factionalize the comic book industry by dividing its members into
> "creators who both write and draw their stories" and "people whose
> stories don't have that special spark"?
Why? For one thing, because it's a simple mathematical fact. Back in
engineering college I would have written it as 2 =/ 1. (Move the / over on
top of the =). I absolutely separate comics into those created by teams and
those created by single individuals. Is that factionalizing? I factionalize.
> I'd rather read a good story made by two or more people, than a bad
> story made by one person.
So would I! Many of my favorite comics are by teams. The best comic books
ever produced were the ECs.
And yet... on a certain profound level, no team-produced comics can compare
with Barks' DUCKS, Eisner's SPIRIT, Cole's PLASTIC MAN, Kelly's POGO,
Foster's VALIANT, Segar's POPEYE, Herge's TINTIN, Capp's ABNER, Raymond's
GORDON, Hamlin's OOP, Herriman's KAT, Watterson's HOBBS, etc., etc.... Well,
it's almost unfair to compare comic books to comic strips -- when you get
into newspaper strips, almost everything was created by a single mind. I
wonder why comic books are different in that respect? Maybe comic books were
born and evolved from studios of writers & artists formed by publishers
trying to mass produce loads of stuff to flood the new market with in the
late 30's and early 40's. Comic books were created by editors & publishers
while newspaper strips were created by individuals.. even though I prefer
comic books' longer stories (as attested by my "vault" filled with over
40,000 of 'em), I know that newspaper comic strips are superior in that
regard.
To me, it's the difference between a very enjoyable comic, and a comic with
indefinable cosmic magic.
People often tell me I'm too modest and self-deprecating when giving
interviews and such. But I know that they just need to ask me the right
questions to see what I'm really proud of. I never think so highly of my own
writing. I am always embarrassed by my own art. But the ability to do both
is *very rare* in comic books! Put my writing *and* my drawing together, and
I *know* that my stories sparkle with cosmic magic! And *that's* the reason
I keep doing this year after year. Sparkling cosmically with magic is fun!
> Subject: That special spark
> I'm not sure I understand that remark.
> Don, are you saying that comics such as The Spirit, Modesty Blaise,
> Watchmen, most of Asterix, most of Tintin and anything from Alan Moore,
> Neil Gaiman and Grant Morrison are by definition incapable of catching
> that "special spark"?
Yes, I am. Because that "special spark" I refer to is the spark of a single
individual's creative ability. Two people can never equal one person. No
matter how good they are, those comics can never be the single vision of a
single mind. That's magical.
> Would you prefer reading a title from a
> writer/artist such as, say, Todd McFarlane to one from a writer/artist
> team such as Goscinny and Uderzo? (Just to pick some names.)
I never said I always preferred single-person comics. But I maintain they
are, by obvious definition, something extra special. I am never particularly
proud of my writing. And I actually don't think I draw well. But I am
*intensely* proud that I do *both*... together that gives my work a sparkle
that surpasses any collaborative effort, even though it might not be as
enjoyable on another level.
> There are a number of artists out there who, after a few years, begin to
> write their own stories. Sometimes they can pull it off, most times they
> can't. Result: A lot of comic books with good artwork and bad writing.
> Why is that a good thing?
It's hard to explain. Maybe it's sorta like a really gorgeous plastic
houseplant compared to a really ordinary LIVE houseplant with blemishes and
a few dead leaves. The live houseplant might not be what some people want,
and might not be what anybody wants all the time -- but it has that special
magic, that inner sparkle merely because it's *alive*. But... this is a
philosophical matter that I would need a writer to help me explain (and then
the team-explanation, no matter how compelling, would not have that
sparkle).
> Why factionalize the comic book industry by dividing its members into
> "creators who both write and draw their stories" and "people whose
> stories don't have that special spark"?
Why? For one thing, because it's a simple mathematical fact. Back in
engineering college I would have written it as 2 =/ 1. (Move the / over on
top of the =). I absolutely separate comics into those created by teams and
those created by single individuals. Is that factionalizing? I factionalize.
> I'd rather read a good story made by two or more people, than a bad
> story made by one person.
So would I! Many of my favorite comics are by teams. The best comic books
ever produced were the ECs.
And yet... on a certain profound level, no team-produced comics can compare
with Barks' DUCKS, Eisner's SPIRIT, Cole's PLASTIC MAN, Kelly's POGO,
Foster's VALIANT, Segar's POPEYE, Herge's TINTIN, Capp's ABNER, Raymond's
GORDON, Hamlin's OOP, Herriman's KAT, Watterson's HOBBS, etc., etc.... Well,
it's almost unfair to compare comic books to comic strips -- when you get
into newspaper strips, almost everything was created by a single mind. I
wonder why comic books are different in that respect? Maybe comic books were
born and evolved from studios of writers & artists formed by publishers
trying to mass produce loads of stuff to flood the new market with in the
late 30's and early 40's. Comic books were created by editors & publishers
while newspaper strips were created by individuals.. even though I prefer
comic books' longer stories (as attested by my "vault" filled with over
40,000 of 'em), I know that newspaper comic strips are superior in that
regard.
To me, it's the difference between a very enjoyable comic, and a comic with
indefinable cosmic magic.
People often tell me I'm too modest and self-deprecating when giving
interviews and such. But I know that they just need to ask me the right
questions to see what I'm really proud of. I never think so highly of my own
writing. I am always embarrassed by my own art. But the ability to do both
is *very rare* in comic books! Put my writing *and* my drawing together, and
I *know* that my stories sparkle with cosmic magic! And *that's* the reason
I keep doing this year after year. Sparkling cosmically with magic is fun!
Don Rosa
DCML Digest Issue 26
Message 143 -
2004-08-21 at 17:02:10
> From: "Lars Jensen" <lpj at forfatter.dk>
> Subject: That special spark
> Writer Steven Grant wrote a little about this "single person" attitude a
> few weeks ago in his "Master of the Obvious" column
And I now return from reading that... and I simply disagree with him. What
opinion would you expect him to tout, he who writes comics but cannot draw?
(Or from me, who can do both, at least marginally.) On the other hand, when
he says that he disagrees that "comics written and drawn by the same person
were inherently superior to those with the disciplines performed by
different people", he is referring to a much more specific definition of
"superior" than I refer to. I am saying that those comics may sometimes not
be as enjoyable as a team effort. But they are undeniably on another plane
of existence by the *fact* they are the product of a single mind and will.
The reason I *can't* find the exact words to explain that to someone who
doesn't sense it is why I use a flatulent term like "sparkle".
> Subject: That special spark
> Writer Steven Grant wrote a little about this "single person" attitude a
> few weeks ago in his "Master of the Obvious" column
And I now return from reading that... and I simply disagree with him. What
opinion would you expect him to tout, he who writes comics but cannot draw?
(Or from me, who can do both, at least marginally.) On the other hand, when
he says that he disagrees that "comics written and drawn by the same person
were inherently superior to those with the disciplines performed by
different people", he is referring to a much more specific definition of
"superior" than I refer to. I am saying that those comics may sometimes not
be as enjoyable as a team effort. But they are undeniably on another plane
of existence by the *fact* they are the product of a single mind and will.
The reason I *can't* find the exact words to explain that to someone who
doesn't sense it is why I use a flatulent term like "sparkle".
Cord Wiljes
Single creator special spark
Message 144 -
2004-08-21 at 18:41:59
Don Rosa wrote:
> And yet... on a certain profound level, no team-produced
> comics can compare with Barks' DUCKS, Eisner's SPIRIT,
> Cole's PLASTIC MAN, Kelly's POGO, Foster's VALIANT,
> Segar's POPEYE, Herge's TINTIN, Capp's ABNER, Raymond's
> GORDON, Hamlin's OOP, Herriman's KAT, Watterson's HOBBS,
> etc., etc....
Herge's Tintin has been redrawn and re-redrawn by a team of artists with
Herge just supervising. So in fact Tintin *is* a team effort. And Li'l
Abner has been ghosted by other artists for years, most famous by Frank
Frazetta.
+ So Neal Adams "Skateman" has the special sparkle Adams' and O'Neill's
"Green Lantern/Green Arrow" does not?
+ Uderzo's Asterix has that special sparkle Uderzo's and Goscinny's
"Asterix" does not?
+ Jack Kirby's "Captain Victory" has that special sparkle Kirby's and
Lee's "Fantastic Four" do not?
I agree with Don that most of the greatest comics are written and drawn
by the same creator. But couldn't this be just a result of the fact that
the industrial assembly-line creation of comics in the U.S. isn't a very
healthy climate for high quality? So those creators who
+ have a strong desire to create outstanding work
+ can write and draw
+ are good enough to still make a living with a smaller output
have to step outside the assembly-line production.
But I believe this does not mean that their works automatically have a
special sparkle which others can not. I would define the special sparkle
as "quality/craftmanshop + artistic aspiration/innovation". Simply put:
A profound ability combined with a heartfelt desire. And this is
something good teams can also create. Maybe even better than a single
creator.
Best point in case: Goscinny's and Uderzo's "Asterix" is one of the
greatest comics of all times wheres Uderzo's Asterix is nice
entertainment at best.
And how about:
+ "Lone Wolf an Cub" by Kazuo Koike's and Goseki Kojima
+ "Conan" by Roy Thomas and Barry Windsor-Smith
+ "Modesty Blaise" by Peter O'Donnell and Jom Holdaway
+ "Blueberry" by Jean-Michel Charlier and Jean Giraud
Don, your comics are great because you are a great gag man, a good
writer, a solid and interesting artist and (last but certainly not
least) because you are immensely dedicated to your work. All this shines
through and makes your works sparkle.
Other creators may produce their magic sparkles better by combining
their talents with others'. I think the sparkles are the important
thing, not how they came to be.
Cord
> And yet... on a certain profound level, no team-produced
> comics can compare with Barks' DUCKS, Eisner's SPIRIT,
> Cole's PLASTIC MAN, Kelly's POGO, Foster's VALIANT,
> Segar's POPEYE, Herge's TINTIN, Capp's ABNER, Raymond's
> GORDON, Hamlin's OOP, Herriman's KAT, Watterson's HOBBS,
> etc., etc....
Herge's Tintin has been redrawn and re-redrawn by a team of artists with
Herge just supervising. So in fact Tintin *is* a team effort. And Li'l
Abner has been ghosted by other artists for years, most famous by Frank
Frazetta.
+ So Neal Adams "Skateman" has the special sparkle Adams' and O'Neill's
"Green Lantern/Green Arrow" does not?
+ Uderzo's Asterix has that special sparkle Uderzo's and Goscinny's
"Asterix" does not?
+ Jack Kirby's "Captain Victory" has that special sparkle Kirby's and
Lee's "Fantastic Four" do not?
I agree with Don that most of the greatest comics are written and drawn
by the same creator. But couldn't this be just a result of the fact that
the industrial assembly-line creation of comics in the U.S. isn't a very
healthy climate for high quality? So those creators who
+ have a strong desire to create outstanding work
+ can write and draw
+ are good enough to still make a living with a smaller output
have to step outside the assembly-line production.
But I believe this does not mean that their works automatically have a
special sparkle which others can not. I would define the special sparkle
as "quality/craftmanshop + artistic aspiration/innovation". Simply put:
A profound ability combined with a heartfelt desire. And this is
something good teams can also create. Maybe even better than a single
creator.
Best point in case: Goscinny's and Uderzo's "Asterix" is one of the
greatest comics of all times wheres Uderzo's Asterix is nice
entertainment at best.
And how about:
+ "Lone Wolf an Cub" by Kazuo Koike's and Goseki Kojima
+ "Conan" by Roy Thomas and Barry Windsor-Smith
+ "Modesty Blaise" by Peter O'Donnell and Jom Holdaway
+ "Blueberry" by Jean-Michel Charlier and Jean Giraud
Don, your comics are great because you are a great gag man, a good
writer, a solid and interesting artist and (last but certainly not
least) because you are immensely dedicated to your work. All this shines
through and makes your works sparkle.
Other creators may produce their magic sparkles better by combining
their talents with others'. I think the sparkles are the important
thing, not how they came to be.
Cord
Richard
Usage of Inducks versus official data
Message 145 -
2004-08-21 at 19:11:26
Regarding what Gary Leach wrote:
>Egmont at one time supply photocopied galleys to publishers - as they
>did for Gladstone - that provided full contents, including b&w art with
>complete dialogue, titles, and story codes, of upcoming publications.
I think that for the publishers, Inducks and official Egmont data will be used
differently. Egmont provides full data on each story - including the story
itself - so this will always be better than Inducks. On the other hand, if
you want to find eg all stories ever published with Panchito and Donald,
Inducks seems the best. I don't know if Gemstone has an in-house database of
Disney comics like other publishers do (I imagine that this would necessitate
lots of time and ressource) - and Gemstone will only publish a tiny fraction
of Disney comics anyway. But I can cite the example of the French publisher
database (Hachette) who has very sparse credits: regarding old American
artists, Hachette only "knows" Barks and Murry. While in Inducks you have the
latest and most complete knowledge in most credits that you can possibly
have.
>Egmont at one time supply photocopied galleys to publishers - as they
>did for Gladstone - that provided full contents, including b&w art with
>complete dialogue, titles, and story codes, of upcoming publications.
I think that for the publishers, Inducks and official Egmont data will be used
differently. Egmont provides full data on each story - including the story
itself - so this will always be better than Inducks. On the other hand, if
you want to find eg all stories ever published with Panchito and Donald,
Inducks seems the best. I don't know if Gemstone has an in-house database of
Disney comics like other publishers do (I imagine that this would necessitate
lots of time and ressource) - and Gemstone will only publish a tiny fraction
of Disney comics anyway. But I can cite the example of the French publisher
database (Hachette) who has very sparse credits: regarding old American
artists, Hachette only "knows" Barks and Murry. While in Inducks you have the
latest and most complete knowledge in most credits that you can possibly
have.
UNDBKB
Master of the Obvious
Message 146 -
2004-08-21 at 19:20:40
> Don, are you saying that comics such as The Spirit, Modesty Blaise,
> Watchmen, most of Asterix, most of Tintin and anything from Alan Moore,
> Neil Gaiman and Grant Morrison are by definition incapable of catching
> that "special spark"?
>
> Writer Steven Grant wrote a little about this "single person" attitude a
> few weeks ago in his "Master of the Obvious" column at Comic Book
> Resources.
You are not the "Master of the Obvious"!
I would think you would realize "The Obvious" here,
is that Don's spark is for his way of doing things,
which is all he knows, according to his own statements.
I like his stories and his art, though not Barks, is
uniquely his own and has its own special "spark"!
Barry
> Watchmen, most of Asterix, most of Tintin and anything from Alan Moore,
> Neil Gaiman and Grant Morrison are by definition incapable of catching
> that "special spark"?
>
> Writer Steven Grant wrote a little about this "single person" attitude a
> few weeks ago in his "Master of the Obvious" column at Comic Book
> Resources.
You are not the "Master of the Obvious"!
I would think you would realize "The Obvious" here,
is that Don's spark is for his way of doing things,
which is all he knows, according to his own statements.
I like his stories and his art, though not Barks, is
uniquely his own and has its own special "spark"!
Barry
François Willot
Single creator special spark
Message 147 -
2004-08-21 at 19:20:41
Le samedi 21 Ao?t 2004 17:41, Cord Wiljes a ?crit?:
> Don Rosa wrote:
> Herge's Tintin has been redrawn and re-redrawn by a team of artists with
> Herge just supervising. So in fact Tintin *is* a team effort. And Li'l
> Abner has been ghosted by other artists for years, most famous by Frank
> Frazetta.
I think there is a special spark also with authors working closely together.
Asterix is one example. Another example is the comics I made with a friend of
mine. We did 80 pages of them up to now, both makng art and story. The
collaboration is so close that we drew certain pages both at the same time,
and these comics were superior than anyhting we would have done alone.
> Don Rosa wrote:
> Herge's Tintin has been redrawn and re-redrawn by a team of artists with
> Herge just supervising. So in fact Tintin *is* a team effort. And Li'l
> Abner has been ghosted by other artists for years, most famous by Frank
> Frazetta.
I think there is a special spark also with authors working closely together.
Asterix is one example. Another example is the comics I made with a friend of
mine. We did 80 pages of them up to now, both makng art and story. The
collaboration is so close that we drew certain pages both at the same time,
and these comics were superior than anyhting we would have done alone.
SRoweCanoe
Single creator special spark
Message 148 -
2004-08-21 at 19:26:04
In a message dated 8/21/2004 11:47:04 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
cord at wiljes.de writes:
>Herge's Tintin has been redrawn and re-redrawn by a team of artists with
>Herge just supervising.
of course, besides supervising, Herge wrote it - and (i think) did breakdowns
for the art/
but the keyword is he supervised it - he was the auter! and it was his
vision/
same is true for Eisner's Spirit - it is the period where Eisner closely
supervised it that sparkles and shines - because his vision was there/
sr (the only one on this list who doesnt like Modesty Blaise)
cord at wiljes.de writes:
>Herge's Tintin has been redrawn and re-redrawn by a team of artists with
>Herge just supervising.
of course, besides supervising, Herge wrote it - and (i think) did breakdowns
for the art/
but the keyword is he supervised it - he was the auter! and it was his
vision/
same is true for Eisner's Spirit - it is the period where Eisner closely
supervised it that sparkles and shines - because his vision was there/
sr (the only one on this list who doesnt like Modesty Blaise)
Mark Baker-Wright
Uncle Scrooge #332 5,405 Circulation.
Message 149 -
2004-08-21 at 21:03:55
JTorci3511 at aol.com wrote:
>>"Uncle Scrooge #332 5,405.
>
>And they still think that this elite of 5000 readers counts most
children....O_O (About a thousand of them should be members of this
list...)"
>
>Very interesting point, Mickey! Would you, or someone on this list
(...I don't have the time to do so, or I would) volunteer to tally up
the number of American Direct Market readers on this list who are among
those hallowed 5,405?
>
>You can count me as a "forty-something-ish" one of those 5,405 American
readers. Let's hear from the rest of you. A final tally of this would
be informative, at the very least.
>
>Oh, and remember that SALES of 5,405 do not exactly translate into
5,405 READERS. A certain amount of copies will remain unsold, or could
be sold as duplicates.
>
>Joe Torcivia.
>
While I expect that there are nowhere near a thousand US sales
accounted for on this list (a hundred would be pushing it), I should
note that I (as a fairly-long term list reader, but only occasional
poster) pretty much only get US when Don Rosa has a story being
printed, and even then only when it's one I don't already have. This
isn't because I'm not at all interested in other Disney artists, but
because, at nearly $7 an issue, I really can't justify getting US (or
WDC&S) every month. The determiner for me comes in whether or not Rosa
(who I've followed for over a decade and a half now, and is certainly
my favorite Duck-artist) has a new story coming out. If and when the
current comic publishers consider bringing Scrooge stories (not Donald
Duck or Mickey) down to "normal" prices, I might reconsider this
position.
Anyway, as a less-than-regular purchaser of US, I'm sure that will skew
the numbers somewhat.
Mark Baker-Wright
----------------------------------------
Assistant to the Faculty and Dean's
Office, SOT: Fuller Theological Seminary
G.B. Blackrock's Transformers Page:
http://home.earthlink.net/~gbblackrock/
Ask me about singer/songwriter David
LaMotte!
>>"Uncle Scrooge #332 5,405.
>
>And they still think that this elite of 5000 readers counts most
children....O_O (About a thousand of them should be members of this
list...)"
>
>Very interesting point, Mickey! Would you, or someone on this list
(...I don't have the time to do so, or I would) volunteer to tally up
the number of American Direct Market readers on this list who are among
those hallowed 5,405?
>
>You can count me as a "forty-something-ish" one of those 5,405 American
readers. Let's hear from the rest of you. A final tally of this would
be informative, at the very least.
>
>Oh, and remember that SALES of 5,405 do not exactly translate into
5,405 READERS. A certain amount of copies will remain unsold, or could
be sold as duplicates.
>
>Joe Torcivia.
>
While I expect that there are nowhere near a thousand US sales
accounted for on this list (a hundred would be pushing it), I should
note that I (as a fairly-long term list reader, but only occasional
poster) pretty much only get US when Don Rosa has a story being
printed, and even then only when it's one I don't already have. This
isn't because I'm not at all interested in other Disney artists, but
because, at nearly $7 an issue, I really can't justify getting US (or
WDC&S) every month. The determiner for me comes in whether or not Rosa
(who I've followed for over a decade and a half now, and is certainly
my favorite Duck-artist) has a new story coming out. If and when the
current comic publishers consider bringing Scrooge stories (not Donald
Duck or Mickey) down to "normal" prices, I might reconsider this
position.
Anyway, as a less-than-regular purchaser of US, I'm sure that will skew
the numbers somewhat.
Mark Baker-Wright
----------------------------------------
Assistant to the Faculty and Dean's
Office, SOT: Fuller Theological Seminary
G.B. Blackrock's Transformers Page:
http://home.earthlink.net/~gbblackrock/
Ask me about singer/songwriter David
LaMotte!
Mickey
Uncle Scrooge #332 5,405 Circulation.
Message 150 -
2004-08-21 at 21:46:04
Mark:
>I pretty much only get US when Don Rosa has a story being printed, and
even then only when it's one I don't already >have. This isn't because I'm
not at all interested in other Disney artists, but
> because, at nearly $7 an issue, I really can't justify getting US
I understand you! Those prices are crazy, to me.
Disney comics should be selled in the classical comic-book format - and even
with that price
there would be problems in sales.
Ultimately, I think the greatest format is the manga one, with a very good
quantity/price proportion.
But this is another topic...
Mickey
>I pretty much only get US when Don Rosa has a story being printed, and
even then only when it's one I don't already >have. This isn't because I'm
not at all interested in other Disney artists, but
> because, at nearly $7 an issue, I really can't justify getting US
I understand you! Those prices are crazy, to me.
Disney comics should be selled in the classical comic-book format - and even
with that price
there would be problems in sales.
Ultimately, I think the greatest format is the manga one, with a very good
quantity/price proportion.
But this is another topic...
Mickey