Keskustelujen arkisto

HARRY FLUKS, 21-11-1996:

About the Rosa-picture "Anything but Those" in US 300:

>> The reason why the treasure [of "Son of the Sun"] is pictured on the
>> wall is that Scrooge does own the treasure, the big problem is that
>> he can't *reach* it.

> The threasure is not *in a picture* on the wall. The treasure *is* on
> the wall.

No, no! It's a 3-D simulating picture without a frame! ;-)

>>> In 1994, I compiled a file with Don Rosa's comments, sorted by story.

>> Maybe this file can be updated quickly by just compiling every letter
>> Don wrote since that time?

> You must be joking. Don wrote a letter almost every *day*.

How big would a file be with all Don's letters since 1994? I think it
would still be handy enough to edit/read/download.

The only thing I'm thinking of now is that such an un-edited compilation
is not very polite to Don, since it would make his letters a kind of
publication (for which they were not intended). So, this is enough reason
for me to drop my crazy brain-storm about such a file being available for
downloading.

>> BTW. When this file exists, I think editing it will not be too
>> difficult.

> The difficult part is to sort the information by story, and to edit
> out the double remarks. And to adjust the texts so that they can be
> read separately from the non-Rosa mails.

If it's possible to make such a file automatically/easily, and you can do
it, then give it to me and I might do it on a rainy day. (I really want to
do it, but there are some other things I want to do first. Finishing the
Barks-information files, for example.)

> "I like your Barks encyclopedia. I hope you'll finish it soon."
> (me [paraphrased] to Daniel v.E., some years ago...)

Maybe all people called "Daan" don't finish what they begin? ;-)

DWIGHT DECKER, 21-11-1996:

> Point is, you want your star to stand out, and there are various tricks
> of the trade to accomplish that end. Barks's way, whether consciously
> planned or simply the result of experimentation with what worked, was to
> play the distinctive lead characters against a cast of generic dogfaces.

OK, but sometimes you want a background-characters to stand out and then
you might also give him/her a distinctive appearance. Last week I sent a
list of Barks-characters which were no Duck/pig/dog, just to show that
Barks *did* have room for such appearances (although he used them very
rarely, possibly for the reason you suggest).

(Btw. there's also a monkey-human in WDC 245.) ;-)

DANIEL KENNY, 22-11-1996:

> HARRY: I don't understand why "Island in the Sky" is regarded as one of
> Barks' worst stories. While I do admit that it doesn't contain the same
> narrative genius as earlier works like "The seven Cities of Cibola" or
> or "Back to the Klondike", it still is a delightful tale, full of
> wonderful science fiction escapism.

There has been a long time that I didn't like the story, but now I do like
it. It might use a lot more fantasy than most of Barks' more 'canonical'
stories, but it's indeed still a great story in it's own way (IMHO).

> Maybe it is this escapism that turns everyone off, since it is
> inconsistent with the rest of Barks' work. For instance, did we ever
> see a futuristic Duckburg again?

There is the Barks-story "Monsterville" in which Gyro invents a futuristic
Duckburg. And futuristic or not, there's at least a lot more technical
acknowlegde in Duckburg when it comes to building rockets. (For example:
"The looney lunar gold rush" of US 49, "The twenty-four carat moon" of
US 24 and "Interplanetary postman" of US 53.)

BTW. "Interplanetary Postman" is a futuristic story which I still don't
appreciate. It seems like, after having an interesting beginning, Barks
couldn't come up with a good idea and then decided to send the Ducks into
space. But maybe I should reread the story?

BTW2. Barks used a lot of 'futuristic' one-wheel cars as background
details.

BTW3. In CBL 8 is a letter (dated 4 February 1983) from the Cornell
University to Barks, this to tell him that an asteroid is named after
him:

"Your tales of adventure on asteroids, the earth, and other exotic
places have provided me much enjoyment, and I thought it appropiate
that an asteroid should be named "Barks". This turned out to be an
easy task: Ted Bowell, who does much asteroid observing, kindly
volunteered one of his discoveries for the name." (Peter Thomas)

Below this letter, a list is printed with the following information on
"Barks":

(2730) Barks = 1981 QH
Discovered 1981 Aug. 30 by E. Bowell at the Anderson Mesa
Station of the Lowell Observatory.
Named for Barks, writer and illustrator. His comic-book
stories have emphasized exploration and invention, often featuring
space adventure, satellites and minor planets. He touched on the
idea of 'rubble pile asteroids' more than 20 years ago. Name
proposed by P. Thomas."

CHRISTOPHER, 22-11-1995:

> Sure, Gottfredson's work may not be politically correct by today's
> standards, [...] If these stories could be published with some sort
> of text piece explicating the reigning ideas, or zeitgeist if you
> will, not only would it help to justify their publication to the
> naysayers, it might also make the stories richer than they already are.

This exactly my opinion (printing the story uncensored by adding a
text-piece). I wish Disney would have allowed it in the CBL. There
could also have been a beautiful "Floyd Gottfredson Library" this way.

A long time ago someone here suggested the idea of making a difference
between normal publications and collector's items. This would have made an
uncensored CBL possible, while the normal comics could be as censored as
Disney thinks is nescessary.

> Of course, this is probably a case of preaching to the converted.
> Maybe we should barrage Disney with mail asking them to reconsider.
> After all, as has been said here, Mickey's popularity is ailing.

Is there an e-mail adress for that? And how should such a letter be
written? Maybe someone, familiar with writing 'real' letters, could write
this letter and then include an accompanying list of people who agree?

MARCO BARLOTTI, 23-11-1996 (2 mails):

Me> If it's useful to make such a beast as a 'Bark encyclopaedia', maybe
Me> some of us are willing to contribute?

Harry> First thing you need is a *coordinator*: someone who divides the
Harry> work, and sees to it that no double work is done, and that the work
Harry> follows some consistency rules.

> I threw the stone, so I can't hide my hand. I AM willing to contribute
> if we decide to make a Barks encyclopaedia. I nominate Daniel as
> *coordinator*, because he already knows how to do it (well, a way to
> do it, at least).

I am willing to be the coordinator, but at this moment I don't have the
time to contribute very much myself. (Don't worry though, I do want to
join and I certainly will.)

> But a computer man should be in the organizing committe too, so that
> the data are written down in an easy portable fashion (was that called
> <comma> delimited format, Frank?).

Computer format? The way I thought/think of it, is making it in the format
of an average encyclopedia: The catchword mostly on the left (in bold) and
then the description/information (including the code) mostly on the right.
To make the encyclopedia not too big as one file, we could divide it in
files "A", "B", "C", etc. (like multi-part encyclopedia's do).

To give an example, here are some entries of my attempts:

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

*Andes Mountains*

Mountains range in (among other countries) Peru where Donald and the
nephews go searching for the origin of the square eggs. After some
directions of an old vicuna hunter (nearly blind, since he broke his
glasses), they (re)discover Plain Awful, which is located in the
Region of the Mists in the Passes of the Cordillera. {OS 223}

*Astorbilt, Mr.& Mrs.*

This rich lady and gentleman are guests on Donald's jungle-party,
which turns out to be a big flop. {WDC 91}

*Banzoony, "Benzine"*

Becomes a firebug after he was dropped on his head and for this reason
he was locked up for years by his twin brother, a policeman. At a
certain point Banzoony overpowers his brother and escapes with his
uniform. After his arrest, doctor Carver Beakoff offers to cure him
with a simple operation. {OS 108}

*Barks dog soup*

Can of soup in Donald's kitchen. {WDC 75}

*Bathe News*

A camera of this news-company attends the opening of a new Palmbird
golf course in glamorous Palm Sands, where Donald tries to attract
the attention of a rich producer to get famous. {WDC 245}

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

> [...] And we need contributors, of course. These should be people who
> have access to the CBL or anyway to the English (American?) version of
> the stories [...] I myself can contribute on Barks' work in his last two
> years of activity, when I was a subscriber to Gold Key comics. Well, if
> we find enough contributors it won't be a difficult job... and it might
> be FUN!

The main work which needs to be done is reading Barks' stories to find
names and places, so it can indeed be a lot of fun. If people want to
contribute, but only have time to write down the names/places and not to
write the descriptions/information, then it's also OK with me.

PER, are you willing/able to put such an encyclopedia on your site?

> [War of Wendigo] Page 8, panel 2. Original: <It's you?>. Translation:
> <It's you guy?> (singular) (That's clearly wrong. $crooge is speaking
> to the Peeweegas, not to a SINGLE Peeweega!)

Wasn't it implied that it was *Goldie* whom $crooge thought he was
speaking to? (In the foreground, the nephews tell that the Wendigo
use voices of familiar persons to lure their victims.)

STEVEN ROWE, 23-11-1996:

About the 'hammocks-cover':

> But this wasn't done for a cover, right? It was a sketch for a fan?
> So, the good news is that as long as Barks sketches are out there, then
> there will always be a chance for new Barks covers for decades to come;
> even if Barks decides to never draw another line.

The 'hammocks' sketch Barks made was meant to become a cover. It is
mentioned as such in Mike Barrier's book. It was meant for a WDC-comic
and Barks submitted it to the editor on 7 March 1960.

DANIEL KENNY, 23-11-1996:

> I don't know exactly who to address this Barks encyclopedia question to,
> so this applies to everyone with info. Are stories like "Horsing
> Around..." or whatever barks is working on now going to be in this new
> Barks encyclopedia, if it comes out?

My intention for a Barks Encyclopedia was/is that it includes all names
and places given in Barks-stories. If the Ducks have 'really' been there
or if Barks just 'made that up', is for the reader to decide.

> I didn't think horsing contributed much to Barks universe, and I know
> it's not a popular story among the fans.

Although it's great that Barks decided to make a new story, I was a bit
disappointed that it wasn't as 'sharp' as his 1942-1975 stories. With a
little more rescripting and rewriting, it could have been a great story
(of course IMHO).

HARRY FLUKS, 25-11-1996:

>> BTW: On the cover of WDC 290, Donald doesn't look like being done by
>> Barks. Is this a case of Barks not following his own style or is the
>> cover partly redrawn?

> Mike Barrier doesn't mention anything about redrawing.

Does the 'Dutch CBL' contain this cover? I'm curious what you think
about it.

DAVID GERSTEIN, 25-11-1996:

About sea-monster stories:

> There's also "Be Leery of Lake Eerie," the story from Junior Woodchucks
> #14 in the late 1960s (script mostly by Barks, with the ending rewritten
> at the office), in which there's a monster in a bog which eats plastic
> garbage bags and so on -- and it's made clear that this monster has
> grown from germs put in the water by pollutants.

Some annoying minor corrections... ;-) The story was submitted by Barks
on 27 January 1972. The editors ordered Barks to rescript the last half
page (which he did), making "it all comes out as sweet as raindrops on
rose petals". (Quote from letter to Barrier, 16 August 1972)

JONATHAN MARKOFF, 29-11-1996:

> "Treasure of Marco Polo" [...] Exactly which words were changed from
> the original?

I'll come back on that later with all the details (which doesn't mean
that I have the dialogue of all censored stories, unfortunately).

> ANDERS ENGWALL: You once mentioned it had ethnic stereotypes. Has the
> art been censored as well, then?

There are only two panels censored (16.2 and 21.7), in both, the garrotte
Soy Bheen is about to strangle a rebel with is removed in the CBL.

That's all for now!

Greetings,

--- Daniel

"Hooray! I'm cured! My mind doesn't hurt anymore!"

The Mad Musician, OG 11 --- Carl Barks

--------------------------------
End of Disney comics Digest V96 Issue #267
******************************************

HARALD:
>DAVID
>>(Writing from the country where "Silent night" was BANNED by Dell ;-)
>HUH? - Care to explain?

"Silent Night" is a Carl Barks about Donald and Neighbor Jones fighting at
Christmastime. It would have run in WDC&S 64, but Western's editors vetoed
it as too violent. It has been printed in the CBL and CBLiC, though. In
WDC&S 248, Barks reworked the story into "Terrible Tourist," a
non-Christmas, non-Neighbor Jones story.

GLADSTONE:
Since I doubt the story would be banned today, could you print it in a comic
book sometime? After all, "violence" is now only a secondary concern to
"ethnic characters."

>BTW did you knew that the hymn of Maryland ("O Maryland") is sung to
>the tune of a traditional German christmas song "O Tannenbaum"?
>(Which has benn translated to English sometimes as "O Christmastree",
>I think)

That's indeed the story. The USA translation was done by Longfellow.
"Maryland, My Maryland" was written in April 1861, during the USA Civil War,
by James Ryder Randall, a Confederate sympathizer, and is now the state song
of Maryland.

--Jonathan Markoff

(1) CREDITS FOR EGMONT STORIES (Byron)

This is probably a silly question. Since we have on this ML someone who's in
charge in a high position at Egmont, could we manage to have credits for
D-coded stories?
I'll try to explain myself better. I understand that for some reason, which
have been already enough discussed on this list, Egmont won't publish
credits for the stories in its comics magazines. BUT. Does Egmont object to
the credits being published elsewhere? On Harry's (our) archive, for
instance? I suppose not. And could the Man Who is in Charge in a High
Position at Egmont find a way to send us the credits? In the simple format
-----> code-name-name <------ ?

(2) DD AT AARHUS UNIV. MATH/COMPUTER SCIENCE (Ole)

(2.1) - Is it legal for students to have Disney comics in their magazine?
(2.2) (more important) - Whom should I contact to get a copy of that magazine?

(3) BARKS ENCYCLOPAEDIA (Daniel, but mostly every one else)

Before discussing how to make it, we should get a list of contributors. Any
one out there?

(4) WAR OF WENDIGO DIALOGUE (Daniel - Don)

>> [War of Wendigo] Page 8, panel 2. Original: <It's you?>. Translation:
>> <It's you guy?> (singular) (That's clearly wrong. $crooge is speaking
>> to the Peeweegas, not to a SINGLE Peeweega!)
>
>Wasn't it implied that it was *Goldie* whom $crooge thought he was
>speaking to? (In the foreground, the nephews tell that the Wendigo
>use voices of familiar persons to lure their victims.)
>

That's interesting. But I understood that the Peeweegas weren't that sort of
Wendigoes after all. However, why not ask the author? So, Don: what's the
"official" version?

Marco

In a message dated 96-11-30 00:04:51 EST, you write:

Bryon writes:
<< Again, you haven't got a clue. Every one of those artists' work is
instantly recognizable as *his* work--not *one* of them stamps it out
with a die or traces facial expressions. *You* may like Rosa or Van Horn
better than Vicar, and so what? >>

We all have our preferences; I don't care for Vicar myself. But.. he does
have an individual styles. I recall this same argument before; with people
who can't tell the difference between Tony Strobl and Jack Bradbury. And me,
I can't see what they have in common.

DANIEL:
"The story [Junior Woodchucks "Be Leery of Lake Eerie"] was
submitted by Barks on 27 January 1972."
Aaaargh... you got me! I was at least five years off. ;-)
"The editors ordered Barks to rescript the last half page (which he
did), making "it all comes out as sweet as raindrops on rose petals".
(Quote from letter to Barrier, 16 August 1972)"
Actually, the Barrier book does make clear that it wasn't Barks who
rewrote those last panels. He quotes Barks as saying "THE OFFICE [my
emphasis] butchered my ending" and refers to "Barks' script" as opposed to
the published version, which presumably reflects the script of Barks'
editors.
If Daan Jippes doesn't want to redraw more Woodchuck stories, I'll
sure look forward to Mau Heymans redoing this one. Still, I loved Daan's
version of "Maple Sugar Time" in its recent American printing.
I hope Jippes' version of the Junior Woodchuck "Bottled Battlers"
story appears in Gladstone's UNCLE SCROOGE soon. As Scrooge himself said
to Petrolio-de-Vaselino Donald: "It BELONGS here!"

David Gerstein
<(Email removed)>

<(Email removed)>

Harald Havas points out:
> BTW did you knew that the hymn of Maryland ("O Maryland") is sung to
> the tune of a traditional German christmas song "O Tannenbaum"?
> (Which has benn translated to English sometimes as "O Christmastree",
> I think)

And Jonathan Markoff replies:
> That's indeed the story. The USA translation was done by Longfellow.
> "Maryland, My Maryland" was written in April 1861, during the USA
> Civil War, by James Ryder Randall, a Confederate sympathizer, and is
> now the state song of Maryland.

Just as with the Barks and Gottfredson stories we have been mentioning
which were later censored or edited because they had become a sore
point to modern sensibilities (and this is the only relevance to
disney comics in this whole posting!), "Maryland, My Maryland" has
become a bit of an embarrassment in the 135 years since it was written,
as Jonathan notes, by a Southern sympathizer at the outbreak of the
Civil War. (Maryland was a border state between the North and the
South, as were Kentucky and Missouri, and it was touch-and-go as to
whether they would also secede from the Union when the Southern states
did. Maryland finally didn't secede, mainly due to Abraham Lincoln's
illegally imprisoning that state's principal advocates of secession,
but they did wind up getting their state song out of it.)

"Maryland, My Maryland" is a hymn praising the state and advocating
that it break away from the Union. The embarrassing parts are in
the verses which refer to the state's being crushed by "the despot's
heel." In 1996, many people are ashamed to have to explain that the
"despot" in question is none other than Abraham Lincoln, President of
the United States. There's also a reference to "Northern scum," which
residents of many other states might find unflattering. :) It has been
suggested that "Maryland, My Maryland" could use a bit of a re-write to
conform better to 20th Century attitudes, but the state legislature has
thus far refused to change the lyrics, perhaps not wanting to publicize
the issue. And thus shift the sands of time, and so blow the winds of
political correctness.

Hmmmmmm.... Since this List held an interesting discussion a while
back on possible mottos for the state of Calisota, should we now try
to come up with a state song? Of course, no references should be
allowed to "the despot's heel" in reference to Walt Disney, nor should
Calisotans be permitted to refer to the residents of a neighboring
state as "Minnefornia scum"!

Harald also asks:
> "What exactly are Reindeer games?"
>
> (You know, the ones Rudi is not allowed to join in... are they
> strategic, athletic - pathetic? WHAT do they PLAY - for Santas sake?!)

There's a cartoon that runs on TV every Christmas, and I **think** it
shows the reindeer frolicking in the snow and playing hide-and-seek or
tag. Maybe that's OK for Dancer, Prancer, Vixen, and Cupid - after
all, those are pretty sissy names for reindeer - but what about Dasher,
Comet, Donner, and Blitzen? Those are **manly** names, and I doubt
that they would go in for anything less than full-speed-ahead, one-on-
one, antler-bashing caribou combat! So after hauling the fat man and
his sled all across the globe, certainly no feat for a bunch of wimps,
they probably unwind with some vigorous head-butting and then settle
back with Santa to engage in some ritual male bonding, watching all the
football bowl games on TV between Christmas and New Year's, eating
potato chips and pretzels, and guzzling Canadian beer (probably Moose
Head) until **all** their noses are as red as Rudolph's.

Do you suppose there's a story line for a funny animal comic book in
there somehwere?

Now, since several folks on this List seem to be especially fond of
word-play, here's a little off-topic joke about this same subject.
In the 1950s an American couple were taking a tour of Moscow in the
company of their official Government-appointed tour guide, who was of
course a member of the Communist party. His name (as you might already
have guessed) was Rudolph. The temperature was hovering around the
freezing point, and precipitation started to fall from the dark Russian
sky. The American woman looked up and said, "It's snowing!" The
Russian guide grunted, "Nyet. Is rain, not snow." The woman said
again, "No, it's snowing!" The guide started to become angry, shouting
"Rain! Is only rain!" The woman's hsuband then gently scolded her,
"Now, now, don't argue with our guide. After all, he's the expert on
whether its raining or snowing. Rudolph, the Red, knows rain, dear."

Wilmer Rivers

--------------------------------
End of Disney comics Digest V96 Issue #268
******************************************

David / Daniel:

> "The story [Junior Woodchucks "Be Leery of Lake Eerie"] was
> submitted by Barks on 27 January 1972."
> Aaaargh... you got me! I was at least five years off. ;-)
> "The editors ordered Barks to rescript the last half page (which he
> did), making "it all comes out as sweet as raindrops on rose petals".
> (Quote from letter to Barrier, 16 August 1972)"
> Actually, the Barrier book does make clear that it wasn't Barks who
> rewrote those last panels. He quotes Barks as saying "THE OFFICE [my
> emphasis] butchered my ending" and refers to "Barks' script" as opposed to
> the published version, which presumably reflects the script of Barks'
> editors.
> If Daan Jippes doesn't want to redraw more Woodchuck stories, I'll
> sure look forward to Mau Heymans redoing this one.

Did you know that the Italian artist G.B. Carpi redrew this story for a
Walt Disney Italy's book called "Qui, Quo, Qua" (=H.,D.,L.) 3 or 4 years
ago ?
So, if someone else is redrawing it too, we are going to have three
different versions of the same story. Isn't this a kind of record ?
But we will never have the Barks' version...

Fabrizio.
--

01/12/96 15.38.36
Fabrizio Cellerini
(Email removed)

This is somewhat dated, due to holidays and production emergencies, but I
thought I'd send it along anyway.

DANIEL:

>- What art has been printed in the CBLiC which isn't in the b/w CBL?
> I know there are at least two story-board sequences which are not in
> the b/w CBL ("Bambi" and the never-made "Nightwatchman Donald").
> Is there more?

Gladstone issued a series of 28 albums between 1987-1990 that are
designated Gladstone Comic Albums (that's what they are legally, as a
matter of fact: check the indicia). There was also a series of 7 volumes,
published in 1989-1990, designated Gladstone Comic Album Specials. These
series came to a halt when Disney assumed the comics license in 1990 (after
which Byron jumped ship, the scurvy rat!...;-)...), and are not part of the
subsequent CBLiC project. The "Bambi" storyboards were presented in GCA #9.

>US 64 Treasure of Marco Polo
>
> Lots of dialogue censored. Any reference to dictator, rebel, civil war
> or revolution is changed to General, soldier, or war. Two panels are
> changed (16.2 and 21.7); in both, the garrotte Soy Bheen is about to
> strangle a rebel with is removed in the CBL.

Originally, Disney just wasn't going to let us reprint it at all, period,
nix, nohow. The one thing that's really annoying is that if we were to
submit the original version to Disney today - provided we had never
submitted it before - it would probably be censored less.

>CGW '47 Atom Bomb
>
> Redrawn. Last panel censored: a pyramid of bottles is shown instead of a
> cash register, and combs are in the customers' hands instead of money.

One of the most painful experiences of the entire CBL project. The original
ending just wasn't going to pass, and we soul-searched for months over
whether to even bother printing the story at all. In the end, though, it
just wasn't enough to say "and Barks also did a story called "Atom Bomb",
which we can't show you." We did the necessary drastic surgery, and ever
since we've looked at the result as seldom as possible.

>Lots of covers in CBL 10 are reproduced a very badly state, as if someone
>quickly took some polaroids and then submitted them for printing.

No argument that these were screwed up. This set had to be punched out
before our CBL license expired. (Disney, in the process of taking over the
comics license, was not in the mood to extend any other license we had at
the time.) By the time we got the proofs on the photography of the covers,
it was too late to redo anything, so it was print what we had or leave
those covers unrepresented. We chose the former, for the sake of completing
the job, and accept all brickbats for the lapse in quality.

Gary

****************************
"Frogs? I don't get it."
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