Hi,
recently I posted a search for Uncle Scrooge and Carl Barks
Library books. Sorry, but I didn't get response for all
books I am looking for. Therefor I would like you to
recommend any shop or whom ever where I can get back issues.
Thanks
Ulli
------------------------------------------------------------
WWW Publisher Tel./Fax: +49-228-634580
Ulrich Wisser (Email removed)
Am Roemerkastell 22 http://www.publisher.de
D-53111 Bonn
------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------
End of Disney comics Digest V97 Issue #271
******************************************
Author
Topic: 199712
(314 messages)
Ulrich Wisser
Comic shopping over the web
Message 91 -
1997-12-14 at 22:57:21
Cebarat
DCD 97 #270 -- Comments on the Great Gladstone Meltdown
Message 92 -
1997-12-15 at 00:17:54
AUGIE DE BLIECK asked:
> Now, can someone PLEASE explain to me why this list has been
>so damned quiet about this bombshell announcement? Sheesh
As Kriton said, a number of us are probably still <<dumbstruck from the
shock!>> (though a number of us do seem to be finding our voices
at last, judging by the contents of #270). In my case, I may
have reached the limit of my capacity for disappointment at the
fates of all the Disney comics lines that have lived and died
during my fannish (read: post-1985) lifetime.
It's hard for me not to crack a rueful smile at Europeans'
descriptions of their Disney comics as <<mother's milk>> that
it would be <<unfathomable>> to lose. The banana-republic-like
rise and fall of "Gladstone I," Disney Comics, Marvel-Disney
Comics, Acclaim-Disney (about which more later), and now,
"Gladstone II" is the Disney comics world I know, and it has
seemed a hard, cruel world at times -- a far cry from <<mother's
milk>>. Far more often, Disney comics have been treated as "pablum"
by many of the supposedly more sophisticated superhero fans
that dominate the American comics scene -- by which I mean, "When
are you gonna wean yourself OFF that stuff and buy some REAL comics?!"
I know that Gladstone has TECHNICALLY not gone away, but it's
difficult to view their plans for album-format comics as anything
more than a sort of "ornamental" comics line. A number of list
members have commented that Gladstone is putting all its eggs in
the "collector" basket, pricing itself completely out of the
reach of the youngsters whom Wilmer Rivers termed the <<next
generation of fans>>. In short, they're clinging to the Disney
zombies. I concur. But the occasional alienation of a portion
or majority of the American Disney comics audience has virtually
become a tradition in recent years:
1. The switch from "Gladstone I" to Disney Comics in 1990 caused
a number of "GI" fans to pack up and leave. A lot of regular
contributors to the "GI" letter columns were never seen again once
Disney Comics got rolling.
2. The "Disney Comics Implosion" of 1991 remains the mortal
sin of recent Disney comics history. Not only did the sudden
blotting out of over half the line alienate traditional readers
who had grown to enjoy the animation-based comics, but all the kids
and others who were led to the comics because of their love of
DUCKTALES, RESCUE RANGERS, etc. were driven away from the fold.
And all because Disney somehow could not summon up its marketing
genius to give these comics the media attention and financial
support that they merited. Disney was probably the only entity
that could have "done Disney comics" in this country in the
same manner that Egmont has done them in Europe; they certainly
had the resources to do so.
3. The "post-Implosion" Disney Comics line further ticked off
diehards by removing the letter columns, falling back on huge
numbers of reprints, and engaging in such stunts as inviting
readers to cut up their comic books in the "Duckburg Map" contest.
4. "Gladstone II"'s switch to paper covers, while perhaps
justifiable from a strictly economic perspective, was a ghastly
public-relations mistake. Reducing interior paper quality may
have resulted in less aesthetically pleasing books, but anything
was preferable to the sight of something that looked like an "el
cheapo" shoe-store giveaway.
5. THE GLADSTONE GAZETTE, the newsletter "GII" mailed to
subscribers, needlessly irritated those of us who supported
Gladstone in the direct market.
6. "GII"'s sale of original art in the comics, and the printing of
comic-book material solely to justify said merchandising, was
simply inexcusable from an ethical standpoint, leading to a lot
of fan cynicism that colored responses to "GII"'s subsequent
troubles.
By contrast, the collapse of "GII"'s "traditional-format" line
is almost refreshingly straightforward; it was forced on the
company by the newsstand situation. That doesn't make it any
less painful, though.
MARK SEMICH urged us to look on the bright side:
<<I don't really see it as a Big Deal - sure, all the newsstand comics are
being cancelled, but the monthly quantity of material will probably be
about the same. Since Uncle Scrooge is going to be in the same
monthly/deluxe format as WDC&S, it'll be like having the cancelled books
on glossy paper - the only difference is that now we won't be able to
pick & choose which issues we want to buy based on their content, we'll
have to shell out 12 bucks a month for a couple good stories :-)>>
Mark does have a point here: the new Van Horn and Rosa material that
wends its way over from Egmont will be assured of appearing in a
very attractive format, and there will be less need to serialize
Don's stories. But as Wilmer said, we may be getting glossy
offerings at the cost of the genre's future. I'd say the phrase
"BIG DEAL" is still valid.
RICH BELLACERA noted:
<<For the, I believe, past two or three
issues of PREVIEWS there has been no mention of any future issues
of "ENCHANTING STORIES" or "ACTION CLUB" coming from
Acclaim, so I began wondering if they, too, have suspended or even
dropped publication of Disney comics.>>
This is the OTHER recent Disney comics casualty. Reportedly,
Acclaim has put the Disney comics "on hiatus." That's editorial-
ese for "You'll probably never see THESE turkeys again." As
for DISNEY ADVENTURES, aside from the magazine being reduced to
a format more appropriate for a soap-opera digest, I honestly
don't count it as a "Disney comic" anymore. The Disney material
in there has become strictly vestigial.
Lastly, I had to breathe a deep sigh when reading the following
from ETA BETA:
<<You may be interested in knowing that one of the main Italian
newspapers, "La Repubblica", put this title on the FIRST PAGE, this
morning:
UNCLE SCROOGE RETIRES>>
Sorry, LUNA STORTA, but nothing like this happened over here. In
fact, when I informed my comic-shop owner of the news, it was the
first she'd heard of it. It'll make the trade papers and journals,
and that's about it. (By contrast, the news of Marvel's desperate
financial straits DID make several newspaper headlines at about
this same time last year.)
It looks like we American Disney comics followers will have to
be content with mutual commiseration. We've gotten pretty good
at it, with practice.
-- Christopher E. Barat
(Email removed)
http://members.aol.com/cebarat/home.htm
> Now, can someone PLEASE explain to me why this list has been
>so damned quiet about this bombshell announcement? Sheesh
As Kriton said, a number of us are probably still <<dumbstruck from the
shock!>> (though a number of us do seem to be finding our voices
at last, judging by the contents of #270). In my case, I may
have reached the limit of my capacity for disappointment at the
fates of all the Disney comics lines that have lived and died
during my fannish (read: post-1985) lifetime.
It's hard for me not to crack a rueful smile at Europeans'
descriptions of their Disney comics as <<mother's milk>> that
it would be <<unfathomable>> to lose. The banana-republic-like
rise and fall of "Gladstone I," Disney Comics, Marvel-Disney
Comics, Acclaim-Disney (about which more later), and now,
"Gladstone II" is the Disney comics world I know, and it has
seemed a hard, cruel world at times -- a far cry from <<mother's
milk>>. Far more often, Disney comics have been treated as "pablum"
by many of the supposedly more sophisticated superhero fans
that dominate the American comics scene -- by which I mean, "When
are you gonna wean yourself OFF that stuff and buy some REAL comics?!"
I know that Gladstone has TECHNICALLY not gone away, but it's
difficult to view their plans for album-format comics as anything
more than a sort of "ornamental" comics line. A number of list
members have commented that Gladstone is putting all its eggs in
the "collector" basket, pricing itself completely out of the
reach of the youngsters whom Wilmer Rivers termed the <<next
generation of fans>>. In short, they're clinging to the Disney
zombies. I concur. But the occasional alienation of a portion
or majority of the American Disney comics audience has virtually
become a tradition in recent years:
1. The switch from "Gladstone I" to Disney Comics in 1990 caused
a number of "GI" fans to pack up and leave. A lot of regular
contributors to the "GI" letter columns were never seen again once
Disney Comics got rolling.
2. The "Disney Comics Implosion" of 1991 remains the mortal
sin of recent Disney comics history. Not only did the sudden
blotting out of over half the line alienate traditional readers
who had grown to enjoy the animation-based comics, but all the kids
and others who were led to the comics because of their love of
DUCKTALES, RESCUE RANGERS, etc. were driven away from the fold.
And all because Disney somehow could not summon up its marketing
genius to give these comics the media attention and financial
support that they merited. Disney was probably the only entity
that could have "done Disney comics" in this country in the
same manner that Egmont has done them in Europe; they certainly
had the resources to do so.
3. The "post-Implosion" Disney Comics line further ticked off
diehards by removing the letter columns, falling back on huge
numbers of reprints, and engaging in such stunts as inviting
readers to cut up their comic books in the "Duckburg Map" contest.
4. "Gladstone II"'s switch to paper covers, while perhaps
justifiable from a strictly economic perspective, was a ghastly
public-relations mistake. Reducing interior paper quality may
have resulted in less aesthetically pleasing books, but anything
was preferable to the sight of something that looked like an "el
cheapo" shoe-store giveaway.
5. THE GLADSTONE GAZETTE, the newsletter "GII" mailed to
subscribers, needlessly irritated those of us who supported
Gladstone in the direct market.
6. "GII"'s sale of original art in the comics, and the printing of
comic-book material solely to justify said merchandising, was
simply inexcusable from an ethical standpoint, leading to a lot
of fan cynicism that colored responses to "GII"'s subsequent
troubles.
By contrast, the collapse of "GII"'s "traditional-format" line
is almost refreshingly straightforward; it was forced on the
company by the newsstand situation. That doesn't make it any
less painful, though.
MARK SEMICH urged us to look on the bright side:
<<I don't really see it as a Big Deal - sure, all the newsstand comics are
being cancelled, but the monthly quantity of material will probably be
about the same. Since Uncle Scrooge is going to be in the same
monthly/deluxe format as WDC&S, it'll be like having the cancelled books
on glossy paper - the only difference is that now we won't be able to
pick & choose which issues we want to buy based on their content, we'll
have to shell out 12 bucks a month for a couple good stories :-)>>
Mark does have a point here: the new Van Horn and Rosa material that
wends its way over from Egmont will be assured of appearing in a
very attractive format, and there will be less need to serialize
Don's stories. But as Wilmer said, we may be getting glossy
offerings at the cost of the genre's future. I'd say the phrase
"BIG DEAL" is still valid.
RICH BELLACERA noted:
<<For the, I believe, past two or three
issues of PREVIEWS there has been no mention of any future issues
of "ENCHANTING STORIES" or "ACTION CLUB" coming from
Acclaim, so I began wondering if they, too, have suspended or even
dropped publication of Disney comics.>>
This is the OTHER recent Disney comics casualty. Reportedly,
Acclaim has put the Disney comics "on hiatus." That's editorial-
ese for "You'll probably never see THESE turkeys again." As
for DISNEY ADVENTURES, aside from the magazine being reduced to
a format more appropriate for a soap-opera digest, I honestly
don't count it as a "Disney comic" anymore. The Disney material
in there has become strictly vestigial.
Lastly, I had to breathe a deep sigh when reading the following
from ETA BETA:
<<You may be interested in knowing that one of the main Italian
newspapers, "La Repubblica", put this title on the FIRST PAGE, this
morning:
UNCLE SCROOGE RETIRES>>
Sorry, LUNA STORTA, but nothing like this happened over here. In
fact, when I informed my comic-shop owner of the news, it was the
first she'd heard of it. It'll make the trade papers and journals,
and that's about it. (By contrast, the news of Marvel's desperate
financial straits DID make several newspaper headlines at about
this same time last year.)
It looks like we American Disney comics followers will have to
be content with mutual commiseration. We've gotten pretty good
at it, with practice.
-- Christopher E. Barat
(Email removed)
http://members.aol.com/cebarat/home.htm
DeanMary
Gladstone implosion
Message 93 -
1997-12-15 at 01:20:31
To those it may concern,
This is a message that I am sending to Gladstone, but I am also posting
it on the mailing list as it may interest some of you.
I am quite upset and saddened about the Gladstone implosion which is
taking place. Unlike many of the people on the Disney Comics Mailing
List, I do put a good bit of blame at Gladstone's feet. Yes, there are
HUGE problems in the comics industry in the US these days and I'm sure
that has had a great effect. However during Gladstone's second run they
have shot themselves in the foot also.
Gary wrote a few days ago that, "Gladstone is continuing to publish
comics" The problem though is that Gladstone will not be publishing
comic BOOKS. Gladstone will continue to publish two comic albums a
month. While these contain reprints of comic stories, these certainly
would not be considered comic books by anyone. As for the prestige
format "comic books" let me say this. Comic books have and always will
continue to go up in price. And I'm sure many non comic book readers
would be quite surprised that the cost of a basic comic book is 2
dollars today. However I think they would be SHOCKED that there is
something being sold for 7 dollars as a "comic book"! That is over 3
times the price of Gladstone's regular titles. Thus, as far as I am
concerned, Gladstone will not be publishing comic books in a few months.
I think the 7 dollar prestige format "comic books" have been the exact
opposite direction that Gladstone should have been going in. I have
heard many time that WDC&S is the "flagship title" of Gladstone. If
that is the case, then I consider it a pretty sad flagship since it has
gone to the prestige format. Let's look at a few things. Since WDC&S
started the new format we have had several Don Rosa stories chopped and
butchered into 3 parts. Now I could understand this if these stories
were 40, 50, or 60 pages long. However these are regular 24 page
stories that can easily fit into a regular comic let alone a 64 page
one! To print what are in my and many people's opinions the best Duck
stories produced today in 8 page morsels and then call it the "flagship
title" seems ridiculous!
To be fair Gladstone has not done that in WDC&S for a number of months
now. What has taken their place though: reprints of other Rosa
stories! Now I could see this if these stories were 20 to 30 years
old. However we are talking about stories that are at the most 10 years
old and some only 5 or 6! If a person wanted that particular Rosa story
they could likely get it cheaper simply by getting the original comic it
appeared in in the back issue market. With THOUSANDS of new pages of
Duck stories being produced each year, wouldn't there be MANY European
stories that could take the place of these Rosa reprints?
For the latest issue of WDC&S I have info, #623, the only Duck stories
in it are a 2 page Van Horn and yet another Rosa reprint. Is this
supposed to entice me into paying 7 dollars for this comic?!?
One question I have is this: Are 7 dollar comic books what the fans
want or what Gladstone wants? The Disney readers I know would have much
rather had WDC$S stay in the regular format. One person I know simply
can't afford 7 dollars a month on ONE "comic book" The people who do
get WDC&S, which includes myself, I believe feel they are lured into
buying it. A number of months back I e-mailed Gladstone to ask why the
Rosa stories were chopped into 3 parts. I was told that the only way
WDC$S could sell in its new format was for there to be a bit of Rosa in
each issue. So basically Gladstone knows and admits that for many
people the main or only reason they buy WDC&S in the prestige format is
for a morsel of Don Rosa work. In a sense then isn't Gladstone at the
least enticing, or to my way of thinking, bribing Duck fans into buying
a title they would not otherwise buy? I don't think such a technique is
"fan-friendly" in the least!
Another question I have is if Gladstone is basically accepting the fact
that they will not be in business in 10 to 20 years. If kids aren't
reading Disney comics for 2 dollars they certainly aren't going to read
Disney titles when the cheapest is 7 dollars! Thus doesn't that almost
guarantee virtually no Disney comic readers at some point down the road?
I'd now like to present 6 possible "solutions" to at least help ease
the effect of the upcoming Gladstone implosion.
One, rethink your policies, and aggressively support and promote 2
dollar titles instead of 7 dollar ones. I won't spend much time on this
though as I realize that is highly unlikely to happen.
Two, consider going back to coverless comic books. I myself hated
having coverless comic books, but it is a better alternative than having
none at all!
Three, if there are going to be only 2 titles a month, please make
WDC&S 90% Duck material. I like many non-Duck Disney stories, but with
only two titles it seems like this is a luxury that can no longer be
afforded.
Four, consider making a third monthly title, even if in the prestige
format. I think Donald Duck would be the perfect one to do so with
given its long history.
Five, consider Gladstone giving up the rights to "regular" comic
books. Could Gladstone keep the licences to make deluxe Disney titles
while another company produced more economical titles? I think that
would be a win-win situation.
Six, and most drastic, consider Gladstone giving up the Disney
license. I realize and know that people at Gladstone truly have a love
for Disney comics. However there is an old saying that if you love
something enough, you will even love it to the point of letting it go.
If, and I realize this is a HUGE if, another company, publisher, etc.
believed they could have a more profitable go at Disney comics, would
Gladstone let them have the chance?
I would sincerely like to hear some responses from both Gladstone and
members of the mailing list about the ideas and criticisms I have
brought up. I don't care if the responses are positive about what I
have written or are very negative and say that I'm hopelessly wrong.
I truly apologize for the length and negativity of this posting. I,
like Augie, had no idea how much this Gladstone implosion would affect
me. I feel almost like I have lost a loved one. It has truly dampened
my Christmas spirit to say the least! And this year there will be no
Christmas on Bear Mountain...
Dean Rekich
This is a message that I am sending to Gladstone, but I am also posting
it on the mailing list as it may interest some of you.
I am quite upset and saddened about the Gladstone implosion which is
taking place. Unlike many of the people on the Disney Comics Mailing
List, I do put a good bit of blame at Gladstone's feet. Yes, there are
HUGE problems in the comics industry in the US these days and I'm sure
that has had a great effect. However during Gladstone's second run they
have shot themselves in the foot also.
Gary wrote a few days ago that, "Gladstone is continuing to publish
comics" The problem though is that Gladstone will not be publishing
comic BOOKS. Gladstone will continue to publish two comic albums a
month. While these contain reprints of comic stories, these certainly
would not be considered comic books by anyone. As for the prestige
format "comic books" let me say this. Comic books have and always will
continue to go up in price. And I'm sure many non comic book readers
would be quite surprised that the cost of a basic comic book is 2
dollars today. However I think they would be SHOCKED that there is
something being sold for 7 dollars as a "comic book"! That is over 3
times the price of Gladstone's regular titles. Thus, as far as I am
concerned, Gladstone will not be publishing comic books in a few months.
I think the 7 dollar prestige format "comic books" have been the exact
opposite direction that Gladstone should have been going in. I have
heard many time that WDC&S is the "flagship title" of Gladstone. If
that is the case, then I consider it a pretty sad flagship since it has
gone to the prestige format. Let's look at a few things. Since WDC&S
started the new format we have had several Don Rosa stories chopped and
butchered into 3 parts. Now I could understand this if these stories
were 40, 50, or 60 pages long. However these are regular 24 page
stories that can easily fit into a regular comic let alone a 64 page
one! To print what are in my and many people's opinions the best Duck
stories produced today in 8 page morsels and then call it the "flagship
title" seems ridiculous!
To be fair Gladstone has not done that in WDC&S for a number of months
now. What has taken their place though: reprints of other Rosa
stories! Now I could see this if these stories were 20 to 30 years
old. However we are talking about stories that are at the most 10 years
old and some only 5 or 6! If a person wanted that particular Rosa story
they could likely get it cheaper simply by getting the original comic it
appeared in in the back issue market. With THOUSANDS of new pages of
Duck stories being produced each year, wouldn't there be MANY European
stories that could take the place of these Rosa reprints?
For the latest issue of WDC&S I have info, #623, the only Duck stories
in it are a 2 page Van Horn and yet another Rosa reprint. Is this
supposed to entice me into paying 7 dollars for this comic?!?
One question I have is this: Are 7 dollar comic books what the fans
want or what Gladstone wants? The Disney readers I know would have much
rather had WDC$S stay in the regular format. One person I know simply
can't afford 7 dollars a month on ONE "comic book" The people who do
get WDC&S, which includes myself, I believe feel they are lured into
buying it. A number of months back I e-mailed Gladstone to ask why the
Rosa stories were chopped into 3 parts. I was told that the only way
WDC$S could sell in its new format was for there to be a bit of Rosa in
each issue. So basically Gladstone knows and admits that for many
people the main or only reason they buy WDC&S in the prestige format is
for a morsel of Don Rosa work. In a sense then isn't Gladstone at the
least enticing, or to my way of thinking, bribing Duck fans into buying
a title they would not otherwise buy? I don't think such a technique is
"fan-friendly" in the least!
Another question I have is if Gladstone is basically accepting the fact
that they will not be in business in 10 to 20 years. If kids aren't
reading Disney comics for 2 dollars they certainly aren't going to read
Disney titles when the cheapest is 7 dollars! Thus doesn't that almost
guarantee virtually no Disney comic readers at some point down the road?
I'd now like to present 6 possible "solutions" to at least help ease
the effect of the upcoming Gladstone implosion.
One, rethink your policies, and aggressively support and promote 2
dollar titles instead of 7 dollar ones. I won't spend much time on this
though as I realize that is highly unlikely to happen.
Two, consider going back to coverless comic books. I myself hated
having coverless comic books, but it is a better alternative than having
none at all!
Three, if there are going to be only 2 titles a month, please make
WDC&S 90% Duck material. I like many non-Duck Disney stories, but with
only two titles it seems like this is a luxury that can no longer be
afforded.
Four, consider making a third monthly title, even if in the prestige
format. I think Donald Duck would be the perfect one to do so with
given its long history.
Five, consider Gladstone giving up the rights to "regular" comic
books. Could Gladstone keep the licences to make deluxe Disney titles
while another company produced more economical titles? I think that
would be a win-win situation.
Six, and most drastic, consider Gladstone giving up the Disney
license. I realize and know that people at Gladstone truly have a love
for Disney comics. However there is an old saying that if you love
something enough, you will even love it to the point of letting it go.
If, and I realize this is a HUGE if, another company, publisher, etc.
believed they could have a more profitable go at Disney comics, would
Gladstone let them have the chance?
I would sincerely like to hear some responses from both Gladstone and
members of the mailing list about the ideas and criticisms I have
brought up. I don't care if the responses are positive about what I
have written or are very negative and say that I'm hopelessly wrong.
I truly apologize for the length and negativity of this posting. I,
like Augie, had no idea how much this Gladstone implosion would affect
me. I feel almost like I have lost a loved one. It has truly dampened
my Christmas spirit to say the least! And this year there will be no
Christmas on Bear Mountain...
Dean Rekich
Don Rosa
Disney comics Digest V97 #271
Message 94 -
1997-12-15 at 01:41:51
I... uh... picked a REALLY bad time to finally end my silence and talk
about my recent trips, didn't I? I felt EXTREMELY foolish having my first
jolly travel report appearing, not simply in the same Digest as the bad
(but inevitable) news from Gladstone, but actually AFTER their posting,
such that it looked like I was indifferent to the news.
Anyway, I think I'll postpone any further travelogue until this Great
American Tragedy sorts itself out a bit more...
Back to lurking....................
about my recent trips, didn't I? I felt EXTREMELY foolish having my first
jolly travel report appearing, not simply in the same Digest as the bad
(but inevitable) news from Gladstone, but actually AFTER their posting,
such that it looked like I was indifferent to the news.
Anyway, I think I'll postpone any further travelogue until this Great
American Tragedy sorts itself out a bit more...
Back to lurking....................
Daniel J Horn
Gladstone implosion
Message 95 -
1997-12-15 at 03:21:41
Hi there --
I'm disappointed by the Gladstone cancellations too, but I also see a
brighter side: this shake-up may leave Gladstone in a stronger position,
ultimately.
As many people on this list have noted, the mainstream-kid readership
for duck comics has declined, probably because the culture has moved on
-- Scrooge was popular decades ago because he was a creation of that
time. Spawn and all the rest of the violent superheroes are popular now
because they speak to our time. This isn't to say that any of it is
better or worse -- just that clearly there's something in Spawn that's
speaking more clearly to today's comics readers than Scrooge.
Most of the Disney readers in America are adults, collectors who either
fondly remember Disney comics from their own childhoods or who discovered
it late (like me) and found an appealing sharpness and humor there.
Gladstone may want thousands of kids around the country to be discovering
and falling in love with ten-pagers from the fifties, but it just isn't
happening. They've tried lots of different strategies in the last few
years, and it still isn't happening.
Given these facts, Gladstone can either continue to bash its head
against the wall trying to attract the attention of kids who don't care,
and probably go out of business doing it... or it can do what it does
best, which is publish comics for collectors. Sure, the premium WDC&S is
expensive, but it's also very satisfying for adult collectors. It's got a
good mix of old and new stories, favorite artists, great paper and color,
interesting features... they really know what collectors want, and they
deliver it very well.
So why shouldn't Gladstone cancel the books that are losing money and
concentrate on what they do best? Get rid of the dead weight that's
dragging the company down. A premium WDC&S, a premium Uncle Scrooge, the
completion of the Carl Barks Library, and some Rosa and Van Horn
albums... Jeez, add a premium Donald Duck title to that, and that sounds
absolutely perfect to me. Why bother crying about it?
-- Danny
Danny Horn X (Email removed)
-------------------X---------------------------------------------------------
Editor, MuppetZine X A fanzine for Muppet and Henson fans: Write for info.
I'm disappointed by the Gladstone cancellations too, but I also see a
brighter side: this shake-up may leave Gladstone in a stronger position,
ultimately.
As many people on this list have noted, the mainstream-kid readership
for duck comics has declined, probably because the culture has moved on
-- Scrooge was popular decades ago because he was a creation of that
time. Spawn and all the rest of the violent superheroes are popular now
because they speak to our time. This isn't to say that any of it is
better or worse -- just that clearly there's something in Spawn that's
speaking more clearly to today's comics readers than Scrooge.
Most of the Disney readers in America are adults, collectors who either
fondly remember Disney comics from their own childhoods or who discovered
it late (like me) and found an appealing sharpness and humor there.
Gladstone may want thousands of kids around the country to be discovering
and falling in love with ten-pagers from the fifties, but it just isn't
happening. They've tried lots of different strategies in the last few
years, and it still isn't happening.
Given these facts, Gladstone can either continue to bash its head
against the wall trying to attract the attention of kids who don't care,
and probably go out of business doing it... or it can do what it does
best, which is publish comics for collectors. Sure, the premium WDC&S is
expensive, but it's also very satisfying for adult collectors. It's got a
good mix of old and new stories, favorite artists, great paper and color,
interesting features... they really know what collectors want, and they
deliver it very well.
So why shouldn't Gladstone cancel the books that are losing money and
concentrate on what they do best? Get rid of the dead weight that's
dragging the company down. A premium WDC&S, a premium Uncle Scrooge, the
completion of the Carl Barks Library, and some Rosa and Van Horn
albums... Jeez, add a premium Donald Duck title to that, and that sounds
absolutely perfect to me. Why bother crying about it?
-- Danny
Danny Horn X (Email removed)
-------------------X---------------------------------------------------------
Editor, MuppetZine X A fanzine for Muppet and Henson fans: Write for info.
Frank Fabian
European Disney comics editions
Message 96 -
1997-12-15 at 08:30:45
WILMER:
>So, what's to be done? I'll ask for advice, from List members in the
>more nearly Duck-enlightened parts of the world: which European version
>of Disney comics should I start reading? Italian, French, German,
>Scandanavian, even Greek? Not that I understand any of those languages,
>of course; but I suppose I'll have to learn, in order to find out what
>Donald and his friends are doing. After all, that's how (and why!) I
>learned how to read English, when I was 4 or 5! Actually, I used to
>know a bit of German, and I made a failed attempt to learn Norwegian
>once when I thought I would have to be working in Norway for a while.
>There was just no way I could get those sounds to come out of my mouth;
>I sounded as hard to understand in Norwegian as the cartoon Donald Duck
>does in English. Still, I could learn how to **read** those languages,
>probably, so which country's Disney comics would be the most worthwhile?
Well, if you already know (or used to know) a bit of German, why not try
the German editions? Germany is an "Egmont country", Disney comics wise, so
you'll eventually get all the stories produced by Egmont. You can also get
Italian stories in German translation, if you care for them.
On the other hand, if your knowledge of German is *very* small, I wouldn't
recommend it, because I think German is a bit hard to learn for someone
with English as native language. The same would apply for the Scandinavian
languages. For Greek, you'd have to learn a whole new alphabet. Perhaps
Italian could be your language of choice, or French, a language which,
according to Mark Twain, can be learned by an averagely intelligent person
in 30 days (whereas English would take 30 hours and German 30 *years*,
according to Mark Twain.)
But, fun aside, I'd seriously recommend one of the Egmont countries,
because Egmont has incresingly produced very high-quality comics in the
last few years. The Netherlands also produce decent Disney comics, though I
personally don't care that much for most H-coded stories. As for Italian
stories, with few exceptions like Rota and (classic) Scarpa I dislike most
of them. But perhaps that's different with you.
Now let's end our little shopping guide.
Best regards, Frank
>So, what's to be done? I'll ask for advice, from List members in the
>more nearly Duck-enlightened parts of the world: which European version
>of Disney comics should I start reading? Italian, French, German,
>Scandanavian, even Greek? Not that I understand any of those languages,
>of course; but I suppose I'll have to learn, in order to find out what
>Donald and his friends are doing. After all, that's how (and why!) I
>learned how to read English, when I was 4 or 5! Actually, I used to
>know a bit of German, and I made a failed attempt to learn Norwegian
>once when I thought I would have to be working in Norway for a while.
>There was just no way I could get those sounds to come out of my mouth;
>I sounded as hard to understand in Norwegian as the cartoon Donald Duck
>does in English. Still, I could learn how to **read** those languages,
>probably, so which country's Disney comics would be the most worthwhile?
Well, if you already know (or used to know) a bit of German, why not try
the German editions? Germany is an "Egmont country", Disney comics wise, so
you'll eventually get all the stories produced by Egmont. You can also get
Italian stories in German translation, if you care for them.
On the other hand, if your knowledge of German is *very* small, I wouldn't
recommend it, because I think German is a bit hard to learn for someone
with English as native language. The same would apply for the Scandinavian
languages. For Greek, you'd have to learn a whole new alphabet. Perhaps
Italian could be your language of choice, or French, a language which,
according to Mark Twain, can be learned by an averagely intelligent person
in 30 days (whereas English would take 30 hours and German 30 *years*,
according to Mark Twain.)
But, fun aside, I'd seriously recommend one of the Egmont countries,
because Egmont has incresingly produced very high-quality comics in the
last few years. The Netherlands also produce decent Disney comics, though I
personally don't care that much for most H-coded stories. As for Italian
stories, with few exceptions like Rota and (classic) Scarpa I dislike most
of them. But perhaps that's different with you.
Now let's end our little shopping guide.
Best regards, Frank
Poul S. Frokjar (Poul S. Frøkjær)
How much Gladstone do we actually lose?
Message 97 -
1997-12-15 at 10:54:10
Yes, I also read the sad news about Gladstone cancellation of titles. What
can I say? Bugger. Shit. Damn. F***. (etc.).
But being an insecure engineer I welcome this opportunity to unfold my
nerdy tendencies and ask my computer what I should think about this new
world order.
I wanted it to tell me if I was actually going to get less pages of Gladstone
(newsstand) comics a year now than before the Black Wednesday when
Gary announced the sad news.
I fed the computer with the necessary inputs. The electronic wizard got the
following information:
Before:
WDCS: 100 pgs, 12 times a year
Donald Duck: 36 pgs, 6 times a year
Donald Duck Adventures: 36 pgs, 6 times a year
Uncle scrooge 36 pgs, 6 times a year
Uncle Scrooge Adventures: 36 pgs, 6 times a year
The adventurous Uncle Scrooge: 36 pgs, 6 times a year
Donald Duck and Uncle Scrooge: 36 pgs, 6 times a year
The computer claimed that this added up to 2496 pages a year (it also
reminded me that this number included the pages used on various
advertisements).
Now:
Uncle Scrooge: 100 pgs, 12 times a year
WDCS: 100 pgs, 12 times a year
This, the smart circuit said, equalled 2400 pages a year.
So my computers cold and precise conclusion was: You get very near the
same number of pages a year but the pages will be printed in 2 series
instead of 7.
So though I feel very sad that I may never again see new Donald Duck
issues in my local comic book store, I force myself to join my computer and
look on the bright side. And the bright side here is that the number of
Gladstone Disney pages printed yearly looks to be almost unaltered. In a
cold time that warms a bit.
Poul Frokjar
(-The guy whose two best christmas presents would be
1) -a voodoo-doll, portraying the manager of Disneys
German office, and
2) -a frying pan)
can I say? Bugger. Shit. Damn. F***. (etc.).
But being an insecure engineer I welcome this opportunity to unfold my
nerdy tendencies and ask my computer what I should think about this new
world order.
I wanted it to tell me if I was actually going to get less pages of Gladstone
(newsstand) comics a year now than before the Black Wednesday when
Gary announced the sad news.
I fed the computer with the necessary inputs. The electronic wizard got the
following information:
Before:
WDCS: 100 pgs, 12 times a year
Donald Duck: 36 pgs, 6 times a year
Donald Duck Adventures: 36 pgs, 6 times a year
Uncle scrooge 36 pgs, 6 times a year
Uncle Scrooge Adventures: 36 pgs, 6 times a year
The adventurous Uncle Scrooge: 36 pgs, 6 times a year
Donald Duck and Uncle Scrooge: 36 pgs, 6 times a year
The computer claimed that this added up to 2496 pages a year (it also
reminded me that this number included the pages used on various
advertisements).
Now:
Uncle Scrooge: 100 pgs, 12 times a year
WDCS: 100 pgs, 12 times a year
This, the smart circuit said, equalled 2400 pages a year.
So my computers cold and precise conclusion was: You get very near the
same number of pages a year but the pages will be printed in 2 series
instead of 7.
So though I feel very sad that I may never again see new Donald Duck
issues in my local comic book store, I force myself to join my computer and
look on the bright side. And the bright side here is that the number of
Gladstone Disney pages printed yearly looks to be almost unaltered. In a
cold time that warms a bit.
Poul Frokjar
(-The guy whose two best christmas presents would be
1) -a voodoo-doll, portraying the manager of Disneys
German office, and
2) -a frying pan)
Fluks, H.W.
Gladstone implosion
Message 98 -
1997-12-15 at 11:01:23
Danny Horn:
>As many people on this list have noted, the mainstream-kid readership
>for duck comics has declined, probably because the culture has moved on
>-- Scrooge was popular decades ago because he was a creation of that
>time.
I know we are a bit backwards here in Europe, but culture has moved
on here, too. And there are still a lot of children who like the
stories from the 50s. You know why? Because they are GOOD.
>Why bother crying about it?
Millions of USA children will never know the good stuff they are
missing.
That's worth crying about.
--Harry.
><><><><
>As many people on this list have noted, the mainstream-kid readership
>for duck comics has declined, probably because the culture has moved on
>-- Scrooge was popular decades ago because he was a creation of that
>time.
I know we are a bit backwards here in Europe, but culture has moved
on here, too. And there are still a lot of children who like the
stories from the 50s. You know why? Because they are GOOD.
>Why bother crying about it?
Millions of USA children will never know the good stuff they are
missing.
That's worth crying about.
--Harry.
><><><><
Augie De Blieck Jr.
The Gladstone Crisis
Message 99 -
1997-12-15 at 12:30:54
I should get a job in the Clinton administration. I can use the word "crisis,"
too. =)
POUL:
> So my computers cold and precise conclusion was: You get very near the
> same number of pages a year but the pages will be printed in 2 series
> instead of 7.
Which sounds good, and I'm glad you did the math for us. BUT, here's one other
calculation we can do:
BEFORE:
WDC&S: $6.95 * 12
DD: $1.95 * 6
DDA $1.95 * 6
U$: $1.95 * 6
U$A: $1.95 * 6
The Adv. U$: $1.95 * 6
DD&U$: $1.95 * 6
So for a full year of all the Gladstone titles, you're spending $153.60.
NOW:
WDC&S: $6.95 * 12
U$: $6.95 * 12
Which now also means you're spending $166.80 per year.
You spend 13 more dollars and get close to 100 pages less.
Quite honestly, though, this doesn't annoy me so much. I'm a collector. I'm
the one they're aiming for with this, so it doesn't bother me all that much.
However, what does bother me is the fact that only a collector is now buying
Gladstone titles. There is no entry-level title. There is no cheap comic a
parent can buy her kid in the comic book store that has a duck in it. No, that
mother is forced to buy Archie now, or a super-hero title instead.
With a plan like this, Disney Comics have no future in America.
DON:
>> I... uh... picked a REALLY bad time to finally end my silence and talk
about my recent trips, didn't I? <<
Don't feel too bad about it, Don. After all, at the time you posted your
travelogue, nobody was discussing Gladstone but me, anyway. ;-)
But, really, please do carry on posting your travels. I don't mind. I
rather enjoy them. And it'll keep this list from becoming single-minded.
And while you're at it, what's your take on the Gladstone Crisis?
-Augie
P.S. I'm not ignoring everybody else who responded to my plea for discussion
on this. I have another dozen messages about this still to sort through, and
it's the middle of final exams week for me. So I'll talk about this some more
a little later. Take care.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Augie De Blieck Jr. * (Email removed) * (Email removed) <*>
"The avalanche has already started, it is too late for the
pebbles to vote." -Kosh, "Believers"
too. =)
POUL:
> So my computers cold and precise conclusion was: You get very near the
> same number of pages a year but the pages will be printed in 2 series
> instead of 7.
Which sounds good, and I'm glad you did the math for us. BUT, here's one other
calculation we can do:
BEFORE:
WDC&S: $6.95 * 12
DD: $1.95 * 6
DDA $1.95 * 6
U$: $1.95 * 6
U$A: $1.95 * 6
The Adv. U$: $1.95 * 6
DD&U$: $1.95 * 6
So for a full year of all the Gladstone titles, you're spending $153.60.
NOW:
WDC&S: $6.95 * 12
U$: $6.95 * 12
Which now also means you're spending $166.80 per year.
You spend 13 more dollars and get close to 100 pages less.
Quite honestly, though, this doesn't annoy me so much. I'm a collector. I'm
the one they're aiming for with this, so it doesn't bother me all that much.
However, what does bother me is the fact that only a collector is now buying
Gladstone titles. There is no entry-level title. There is no cheap comic a
parent can buy her kid in the comic book store that has a duck in it. No, that
mother is forced to buy Archie now, or a super-hero title instead.
With a plan like this, Disney Comics have no future in America.
DON:
>> I... uh... picked a REALLY bad time to finally end my silence and talk
about my recent trips, didn't I? <<
Don't feel too bad about it, Don. After all, at the time you posted your
travelogue, nobody was discussing Gladstone but me, anyway. ;-)
But, really, please do carry on posting your travels. I don't mind. I
rather enjoy them. And it'll keep this list from becoming single-minded.
And while you're at it, what's your take on the Gladstone Crisis?
-Augie
P.S. I'm not ignoring everybody else who responded to my plea for discussion
on this. I have another dozen messages about this still to sort through, and
it's the middle of final exams week for me. So I'll talk about this some more
a little later. Take care.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Augie De Blieck Jr. * (Email removed) * (Email removed) <*>
"The avalanche has already started, it is too late for the
pebbles to vote." -Kosh, "Believers"
Soeren Krarup Olesen
What happened? I'm afraid to look!
Message 100 -
1997-12-15 at 14:45:36
Per Starback wrote:
> There is a mysterious change in one publication of WDC 161 in Sweden,
>
> Was this version published in other Egmont countries as well?
Yes, in Denmark, in AA&Co. no. 9, 1975.I have no explanation though.
=Soeren
> There is a mysterious change in one publication of WDC 161 in Sweden,
>
> Was this version published in other Egmont countries as well?
Yes, in Denmark, in AA&Co. no. 9, 1975.I have no explanation though.
=Soeren
Paul Jongma
Disney comics Digest V97 #271
Message 101 -
1997-12-15 at 15:39:02
Hi Everybody,
I'm new here: Paul Jongma - The Netherlands.
I've read that there is a book out in Italy called:
- Don Rosa e il rinascimento disneyano - or something like that.
Now I wondered if someone can give me more information about the
book (nr./authors etc.) as I want to order it.
Now that there are problems with Gladstone, will that have any effects
for the European readers?
> how well do the translators translate the puns, how well do they adjust puns and so on.
> What about the other countries? Denmark? Norway? Germany?
> etc.....
> /Martin Berglund
In Holland they're doing a pretty good job, but somethings just can't
be translated without loosing the joke, I guess. For example, take
Lo$-12. page 16 panel 3. The cop chasing the drummer. That puzzled me
'til I discovered that it comes from some sorta christmassong. I don't
blame 'em (As I can't do better!).
C-Yah
(Email removed)
-----
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled, was convincing
the world he didn't exist.
-----
I'm new here: Paul Jongma - The Netherlands.
I've read that there is a book out in Italy called:
- Don Rosa e il rinascimento disneyano - or something like that.
Now I wondered if someone can give me more information about the
book (nr./authors etc.) as I want to order it.
Now that there are problems with Gladstone, will that have any effects
for the European readers?
> how well do the translators translate the puns, how well do they adjust puns and so on.
> What about the other countries? Denmark? Norway? Germany?
> etc.....
> /Martin Berglund
In Holland they're doing a pretty good job, but somethings just can't
be translated without loosing the joke, I guess. For example, take
Lo$-12. page 16 panel 3. The cop chasing the drummer. That puzzled me
'til I discovered that it comes from some sorta christmassong. I don't
blame 'em (As I can't do better!).
C-Yah
(Email removed)
-----
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled, was convincing
the world he didn't exist.
-----
PAULO CEZAR LOPES BARRETO,BARRETO
North American Disney Comics Marketing
Message 102 -
1997-12-15 at 18:18:42
Ave All!
ARTHUR:
>The United States is the only country in the world where the Disney comics
have the following characteristics:
Well, the factors imposed by History and marketing for that peculiar
situation could be further discussed, for there's no one proven
successful marketing strategy for Disney comics... Here we go:
> * They are primarily sold as items for young adults and adults
Not as bad as it seems. If Disney comics were branded as "kiddie", it
would considerably shorten their readability through readers' life
span, though the U.S. model hinders readers' renewal cycles (comics
have trouble making new readers among young people).
> * They're quite expensive, compared to what you get per page in
other countries
Relatively. I'd gladly pay for U.S.-standard-sized Disney comics if
Brazil published them, in place of those ridiculously small pages we
get in local titles. And in the American model, you have less chance
of paying for an Uncle $crooge comic book and having to get a lot of
Chip 'n' Dale or Fethry Duck (nothing personal against these
characters) along with the cover feature.
> * They have almost no editorials at all
Theoretically great, since you pay for comics and get *comics*.
Editorials may be interesting for marketing purposes in some
countries, but not *the* model for the future. In an attempt to ape
the Italian model, Brazil tried to introduce editorials in countless
occasions and formats -- none survived more than a few months.
> * They have no giveaway premiums at all
They're good marketing if one wants to abandon the adult-aimed,
frill-free model. I've received a lot of giveaways and took part in a
number of contests from Brazilian comic books for decades.
Definitely, they helped sell a lot of comics.
> * They have almost no advertisements
Brazilian comics have a lot of advertisements, and IMHO their
occurrence shows the "health" of the comic book. If the comic book
ceases to be successfully marketable and trustworthy, the advertisers
leave it in no time.
> * There are no themed magazines, like Micky Mystery or a magazine
for girls
Maybe the girlie characters have been underworked, instead.
> * There is no 'flagship' title
Nor in Brazil, which poses no problem at all. Theoretically, Pato
Donald would be the flagship title (it started in 1950 as the fist
Brazilian Disney title), but it has been a lesser title (less pages
and importance) for 40-something years compared to Mickey or Tio Patinhas.
> [In most countries] they are often not expensive.
Let American comics sell more and let the market do the rest.
> And, I think, most important of all, a
lot of countries have a weekly title, called Mickey Mouse or Donald Duck,
which can gain marketshare very rapidly.
Maybe... But if there's already a lot of comic titles, as in Brazil,
it's troublesome to make the market successfully absorb a weekly
("Junior, why *another* Donald Duck like in last week?") and some
countries have more tradition in comic weeklies than others.
> And in the other 100+ countries in the world,
Disney comics are HUGELY popular, with printruns passing the ONE MILLION issues
for a weekly magazine once in a while!
Disney comics, as product/artwork/Americana, became an export model...
unfortunately. What does it really mean if The Typical American Comic
Characters can't secure good sales in their own country but sell like
crazy worldwide? Sort of "How to Read Donald Duck" conspiracy cooking? :-)
P.C.Barreto
(Email removed)
ARTHUR:
>The United States is the only country in the world where the Disney comics
have the following characteristics:
Well, the factors imposed by History and marketing for that peculiar
situation could be further discussed, for there's no one proven
successful marketing strategy for Disney comics... Here we go:
> * They are primarily sold as items for young adults and adults
Not as bad as it seems. If Disney comics were branded as "kiddie", it
would considerably shorten their readability through readers' life
span, though the U.S. model hinders readers' renewal cycles (comics
have trouble making new readers among young people).
> * They're quite expensive, compared to what you get per page in
other countries
Relatively. I'd gladly pay for U.S.-standard-sized Disney comics if
Brazil published them, in place of those ridiculously small pages we
get in local titles. And in the American model, you have less chance
of paying for an Uncle $crooge comic book and having to get a lot of
Chip 'n' Dale or Fethry Duck (nothing personal against these
characters) along with the cover feature.
> * They have almost no editorials at all
Theoretically great, since you pay for comics and get *comics*.
Editorials may be interesting for marketing purposes in some
countries, but not *the* model for the future. In an attempt to ape
the Italian model, Brazil tried to introduce editorials in countless
occasions and formats -- none survived more than a few months.
> * They have no giveaway premiums at all
They're good marketing if one wants to abandon the adult-aimed,
frill-free model. I've received a lot of giveaways and took part in a
number of contests from Brazilian comic books for decades.
Definitely, they helped sell a lot of comics.
> * They have almost no advertisements
Brazilian comics have a lot of advertisements, and IMHO their
occurrence shows the "health" of the comic book. If the comic book
ceases to be successfully marketable and trustworthy, the advertisers
leave it in no time.
> * There are no themed magazines, like Micky Mystery or a magazine
for girls
Maybe the girlie characters have been underworked, instead.
> * There is no 'flagship' title
Nor in Brazil, which poses no problem at all. Theoretically, Pato
Donald would be the flagship title (it started in 1950 as the fist
Brazilian Disney title), but it has been a lesser title (less pages
and importance) for 40-something years compared to Mickey or Tio Patinhas.
> [In most countries] they are often not expensive.
Let American comics sell more and let the market do the rest.
> And, I think, most important of all, a
lot of countries have a weekly title, called Mickey Mouse or Donald Duck,
which can gain marketshare very rapidly.
Maybe... But if there's already a lot of comic titles, as in Brazil,
it's troublesome to make the market successfully absorb a weekly
("Junior, why *another* Donald Duck like in last week?") and some
countries have more tradition in comic weeklies than others.
> And in the other 100+ countries in the world,
Disney comics are HUGELY popular, with printruns passing the ONE MILLION issues
for a weekly magazine once in a while!
Disney comics, as product/artwork/Americana, became an export model...
unfortunately. What does it really mean if The Typical American Comic
Characters can't secure good sales in their own country but sell like
crazy worldwide? Sort of "How to Read Donald Duck" conspiracy cooking? :-)
P.C.Barreto
(Email removed)
D Decker
North American Disney Comics Marketing
Message 103 -
1997-12-15 at 18:32:25
On Dec 15, 8:18am, PAULO CEZAR LOPES BARRETO,BARRETO wrote:
> Subject: North American Disney Comics Marketing
> Disney comics, as product/artwork/Americana, became an export model...
> unfortunately. What does it really mean if The Typical American Comic
> Characters can't secure good sales in their own country but sell like
> crazy worldwide? Sort of "How to Read Donald Duck" conspiracy cooking? :-)
>
There are people who know a lot more about American comics distribution
than I do, but... I think much of the credit for the success of Disney
comics outside of North America is due to the marketing skill of the
local publishers. When I was in Denmark last September for the Egmont
seminar, I saw a presentation on the history of Egmont's Disney comics
production, and it struck me that Egmont was conquering new territories
at a time when American comics were contracting. That is, from a high-
water mark of around three million copies per month in the early '50s,
WDC&S steadily declined until some point in...what, the late '70s, when
Gold Key (Western Publishing) discontinued its comics line. There's a
25-year period where the line on the graph is sloping downwards: comics
are losing circulation and distribution outlets are drying up. Still, to
Western's credit, there was an effort to class up the act in the early
'60s when Gold Key took over from Dell, such as making the traditional
comic book look more modern with redesigned cover graphics (and a brief
attempt at a really bad idea -- eliminating panel borders), but even
slicker-looking production didn't stop the decline. In hindsight, what
may have been needed was more than just trying to spruce up the old
comic-book format. Could WDC&S have been converted into a European-style
weekly comic book that every kid would have a subscription to? It would
have taken a multi-million dollar budget, it would have required a vast
advertising and promotional campaign, and it would have meant effectively
reinventing American magazine distribution. Maybe Western looked into all
this at the time and decided it was a loser from the get-go, decided
to simply ride the sinking ship of American comics down for as long as
it made enough money to be worth the effort, and then abandon it. When
Gladstone started publishing Disney comics in the mid-'80s, the market
had by then declined still further. Hamilton could make a go of things
with the traditional comic book because he was a low-overhead company
in cheap-rent Prescott, AZ with nearly half a century's worth of material
to reprint, something Disney itself in high-rent Burbank may not have
appreciated. Now, there was talk at the time Disney Comics took over that
Disney had the deep pockets to "grow the market" -- one story had it that
Disney wasn't even expecting to make any money off the comics for five
years, and was planning to invest the vast amounts necessary for European
style magazines, with comics and "editorials," and covers showing Mickey
as Michael Jackson and Minnie as Madonna, and using the Disney clout to
get point of purchase displays in every supermarket. That didn't last long.
All that brave talk stopped and the beancounters were insisting that Disney
Comics make a profit _now_, with the usual traditional comic books, with
dismal results. Obviously, Hamilton doesn't have the bankroll or the
resources to invest millions to reshape the American comics market.
Disney itself does have the millions and the clout, but opted not to
at a time when it had the opportunity. Actually, the opportunity may
have been a long time ago -- back in the '50s. What Dell and Disney
didn't bother to do in the '50s, Egmont did in Scandinavia and other
publishers did elsewhere: establishing the distribution systems for a
weekly comic book and making that comic book an ongoing, enduring tradition
for generations of readers. American comic books now are in such deep
doo-doo that I really think it's too late here.
--Dwight Decker
> Subject: North American Disney Comics Marketing
> Disney comics, as product/artwork/Americana, became an export model...
> unfortunately. What does it really mean if The Typical American Comic
> Characters can't secure good sales in their own country but sell like
> crazy worldwide? Sort of "How to Read Donald Duck" conspiracy cooking? :-)
>
There are people who know a lot more about American comics distribution
than I do, but... I think much of the credit for the success of Disney
comics outside of North America is due to the marketing skill of the
local publishers. When I was in Denmark last September for the Egmont
seminar, I saw a presentation on the history of Egmont's Disney comics
production, and it struck me that Egmont was conquering new territories
at a time when American comics were contracting. That is, from a high-
water mark of around three million copies per month in the early '50s,
WDC&S steadily declined until some point in...what, the late '70s, when
Gold Key (Western Publishing) discontinued its comics line. There's a
25-year period where the line on the graph is sloping downwards: comics
are losing circulation and distribution outlets are drying up. Still, to
Western's credit, there was an effort to class up the act in the early
'60s when Gold Key took over from Dell, such as making the traditional
comic book look more modern with redesigned cover graphics (and a brief
attempt at a really bad idea -- eliminating panel borders), but even
slicker-looking production didn't stop the decline. In hindsight, what
may have been needed was more than just trying to spruce up the old
comic-book format. Could WDC&S have been converted into a European-style
weekly comic book that every kid would have a subscription to? It would
have taken a multi-million dollar budget, it would have required a vast
advertising and promotional campaign, and it would have meant effectively
reinventing American magazine distribution. Maybe Western looked into all
this at the time and decided it was a loser from the get-go, decided
to simply ride the sinking ship of American comics down for as long as
it made enough money to be worth the effort, and then abandon it. When
Gladstone started publishing Disney comics in the mid-'80s, the market
had by then declined still further. Hamilton could make a go of things
with the traditional comic book because he was a low-overhead company
in cheap-rent Prescott, AZ with nearly half a century's worth of material
to reprint, something Disney itself in high-rent Burbank may not have
appreciated. Now, there was talk at the time Disney Comics took over that
Disney had the deep pockets to "grow the market" -- one story had it that
Disney wasn't even expecting to make any money off the comics for five
years, and was planning to invest the vast amounts necessary for European
style magazines, with comics and "editorials," and covers showing Mickey
as Michael Jackson and Minnie as Madonna, and using the Disney clout to
get point of purchase displays in every supermarket. That didn't last long.
All that brave talk stopped and the beancounters were insisting that Disney
Comics make a profit _now_, with the usual traditional comic books, with
dismal results. Obviously, Hamilton doesn't have the bankroll or the
resources to invest millions to reshape the American comics market.
Disney itself does have the millions and the clout, but opted not to
at a time when it had the opportunity. Actually, the opportunity may
have been a long time ago -- back in the '50s. What Dell and Disney
didn't bother to do in the '50s, Egmont did in Scandinavia and other
publishers did elsewhere: establishing the distribution systems for a
weekly comic book and making that comic book an ongoing, enduring tradition
for generations of readers. American comic books now are in such deep
doo-doo that I really think it's too late here.
--Dwight Decker
PAULO CEZAR LOPES BARRETO,BARRETO
More Disney marketing...
Message 104 -
1997-12-15 at 19:17:40
SHAUN:
> (...) But do the kids care? No. They head almost *directly* for
titles like X-men, Batman, or even SPAWN! And great guns, Sonic the
Hedgehog is incredibly popular (in my area) and tends to be the title the
kiddies buy most.
I think Sonic is disappointing, but... he's new, he's modern, he has
superpowers, he's backed by blockbuster video games and cartoons, he
lives in a more fantastic place than the Model American Anytown of
Donald and $crooge, he practices and entices the 90's run-or-die
action kids like most... What can we conclude about it? Read on this
posting...
ARTHUR:
> Ofcourse, because Spawn is much COOLER than Donald Duck! That's why
the American Disney comics SHOULD become more like the European ones,
with articles on the Spice Girls and the Backstreet Boys!
As I've stated in my previous posting, the editorial stuff is not an
assured hit. Americans may not accept it well; its results in Brazil
were dismal; articles get outdated if the title is not at least
fortnightly; and I think what "local attractions" could be featured in
Brazilian editorials *now*, instead of SG or BSB... They would surely
make me cancel my subscriptions, if I had any.
> Disney comics have
such high printruns in Europe because lots of KIDS read them!
But kids get older and quit reading plainly kiddie stuff, and kids
can't make money themselves for the comics. The European "secret" is
to keep readers' attention after childhood, even if parents don't feel
much like reading those comics.
ARTHUR, SHAUN, ETA BETA and all which may concern:
Anyway, every marketing strategy concerning Disney comics should be
aware they're not *the* kiddie stuff -- the clean, moral, healthy
comic art kids were supposed to be reading for their best interest and
development (of course, I don't think this has been implied by anyone
in this mailing list). European kids are raised and educated in a
different way... Disney comics' success should be a consequence of it.
If I were a kid in 1997, maybe I was regarding Disney characters as
pretty boring compared to Spawn or Sonic -- and many of us could be
thinking the same. Let's talk relative and come to some conclusions.
P.C.Barreto
(Email removed)
--------------------------------
End of Disney comics Digest V97 Issue #272
******************************************
> (...) But do the kids care? No. They head almost *directly* for
titles like X-men, Batman, or even SPAWN! And great guns, Sonic the
Hedgehog is incredibly popular (in my area) and tends to be the title the
kiddies buy most.
I think Sonic is disappointing, but... he's new, he's modern, he has
superpowers, he's backed by blockbuster video games and cartoons, he
lives in a more fantastic place than the Model American Anytown of
Donald and $crooge, he practices and entices the 90's run-or-die
action kids like most... What can we conclude about it? Read on this
posting...
ARTHUR:
> Ofcourse, because Spawn is much COOLER than Donald Duck! That's why
the American Disney comics SHOULD become more like the European ones,
with articles on the Spice Girls and the Backstreet Boys!
As I've stated in my previous posting, the editorial stuff is not an
assured hit. Americans may not accept it well; its results in Brazil
were dismal; articles get outdated if the title is not at least
fortnightly; and I think what "local attractions" could be featured in
Brazilian editorials *now*, instead of SG or BSB... They would surely
make me cancel my subscriptions, if I had any.
> Disney comics have
such high printruns in Europe because lots of KIDS read them!
But kids get older and quit reading plainly kiddie stuff, and kids
can't make money themselves for the comics. The European "secret" is
to keep readers' attention after childhood, even if parents don't feel
much like reading those comics.
ARTHUR, SHAUN, ETA BETA and all which may concern:
Anyway, every marketing strategy concerning Disney comics should be
aware they're not *the* kiddie stuff -- the clean, moral, healthy
comic art kids were supposed to be reading for their best interest and
development (of course, I don't think this has been implied by anyone
in this mailing list). European kids are raised and educated in a
different way... Disney comics' success should be a consequence of it.
If I were a kid in 1997, maybe I was regarding Disney characters as
pretty boring compared to Spawn or Sonic -- and many of us could be
thinking the same. Let's talk relative and come to some conclusions.
P.C.Barreto
(Email removed)
--------------------------------
End of Disney comics Digest V97 Issue #272
******************************************
Shaun M. Knowler
Disney comics Digest V97 #272
Message 105 -
1997-12-15 at 19:27:25
DON:
Hey! Just because we're going through a crisis here, doesn't mean we don't
want to know what you've been doing in Europe for the past months (?).
You're not off the hook with all that typing yet! :)
Everyone else paying attention...about Gladstone's "implosion" making the
news in North America:
I still haven't managed to contact any local media authority as it stands
now...I still think I could get a good news story out of this. Some kind
of headline like "Comic Book Violence Smothers Out Decent Entertainment!"
-Shaun
Fortuna Favet Fortibus
Hey! Just because we're going through a crisis here, doesn't mean we don't
want to know what you've been doing in Europe for the past months (?).
You're not off the hook with all that typing yet! :)
Everyone else paying attention...about Gladstone's "implosion" making the
news in North America:
I still haven't managed to contact any local media authority as it stands
now...I still think I could get a good news story out of this. Some kind
of headline like "Comic Book Violence Smothers Out Decent Entertainment!"
-Shaun
Fortuna Favet Fortibus