Eta Beta wrote:
> figures... he surely didn't need it, technically speaking, I guess
> he rather made exact copies
Agreed!
> >Bottaro in fact used
> >the very same Barks story in I-TL 359-B...
>
> I don't recognize this Barks story by memory... can you give a
> title or code ?
WDC 214-01, 'Fearsome Flowers'.
I believe it was Francois who discovered it.
S=F8ren
Author
Topic: 199803
(253 messages)
Soeren Krarup Olesen
Bottaro, Carpi & Magic Pocket
Message 226 -
1998-03-28 at 05:03:39
Germund Silvegren
The cover of WDC 301
Message 227 -
1998-03-28 at 18:15:01
Hi all,
I would like to bring this cover up for discussion:
W WDC 301-00 1 c 65-03-15 CB DD T:Entangled fishing
| us : BL10-646
| nl : KV.16
| se : 67-16
| dk : AA67-17
Everywhere in indexes, and in Barrier's book, this cover is listed as being
drawn by Barks. However, simply by looking at it, I find it very unlikely.
At least the inking is very, very far from Barks style. Does anyone have
any comments or know anything about this? My suggestion is that this is an
indexing error in Barrier's book. I mean, since it's listed by Barrier,
Barks must have made a note about it, meaning he had SOMETHING to do with
it. On the other hand, I find it very probable that someone else did the
inking for him after he had sent in the scetch or pencils. It had happened
before, for example with the cover of WDC 173, inked by Paul Murry.
Joakim Gunnarson also noted similarities between the ducks on this cover
with one on the cover of DD 106:
W DD 106-00 1 c 65-07-22 CB DD O:Ambush At Thunder Mountain
| us : BL 2-641
| nl : KV.16
| se : 67-27
| dk : AA67-26
In this cover (DD 106), there is a picture of one of the nephews dancing
(?) on a drum, which was drawn by some other artist. If I remeber
correctly, this was done since Barks original pencils showed the nephew
bouncing on the drum with his rear end, which obviously wasn't appropriate
on a DD cover. However, this redrawn nephew is very similar to the ducks on
WDC 301. Does anyone know or remember who this other artist was?
Hoping for someone to come up with an enlightening answer
/Germund
I would like to bring this cover up for discussion:
W WDC 301-00 1 c 65-03-15 CB DD T:Entangled fishing
| us : BL10-646
| nl : KV.16
| se : 67-16
| dk : AA67-17
Everywhere in indexes, and in Barrier's book, this cover is listed as being
drawn by Barks. However, simply by looking at it, I find it very unlikely.
At least the inking is very, very far from Barks style. Does anyone have
any comments or know anything about this? My suggestion is that this is an
indexing error in Barrier's book. I mean, since it's listed by Barrier,
Barks must have made a note about it, meaning he had SOMETHING to do with
it. On the other hand, I find it very probable that someone else did the
inking for him after he had sent in the scetch or pencils. It had happened
before, for example with the cover of WDC 173, inked by Paul Murry.
Joakim Gunnarson also noted similarities between the ducks on this cover
with one on the cover of DD 106:
W DD 106-00 1 c 65-07-22 CB DD O:Ambush At Thunder Mountain
| us : BL 2-641
| nl : KV.16
| se : 67-27
| dk : AA67-26
In this cover (DD 106), there is a picture of one of the nephews dancing
(?) on a drum, which was drawn by some other artist. If I remeber
correctly, this was done since Barks original pencils showed the nephew
bouncing on the drum with his rear end, which obviously wasn't appropriate
on a DD cover. However, this redrawn nephew is very similar to the ducks on
WDC 301. Does anyone know or remember who this other artist was?
Hoping for someone to come up with an enlightening answer
/Germund
Gerstein, David DK - ECN
Previously unknown Scarpa page?
Message 228 -
1998-03-28 at 18:28:52
Hi, all.
Just spending a leisurely evening with some friends here at
Egmont, looking through some bound volumes of the 1950s British Mickey
Mouse Weekly (which will be indexed in due time, never you fear - *huge*
amounts of original material in them.
Most issues of the late 1950s have a front page designed with a
Sunday-page-type gag of Mickey, Morty, and Ferdie. They aren't real
Sunday pages - they're British own-production. And the artwork on most
of them isn't anything particularly inspired (shame, as some of the
other British material in the comics is drawn very well).
Except for the page of issue dated 11 October 1958. This page,
at least the art to it, is *unquestionably* by Romano Scarpa.
Yes, Romano Scarpa - right down to the (English language)
lettering, which is identical to that of many Italian Scarpa stories of
the period. The gag is very simple (MM agrees to take MF to the circus
if they succeed in frightening him badly enough, and they borrow a
dinosaur skeleton from a museum to effectively do this). But it's
unquestionably drawn, if not written, by Scarpa.
I'd wonder if this were taken from an Italian source, except
that the writing style and layout are identical to the British cover
strips of the time. No, I suspect Scarpa did this just for Vernon
Holding, the then-current English publisher.
Does any written account mention the existence of this page?
Certainly the only use of any Italian artist by the British magazine at
the time. Does Scarpa himself remember this one?
I've scanned and made a .gif file of the page, so while I don't
have access to put it on my website right now, I can certainly send it
to others who want a look.
David Gerstein
<(Email removed)>
--------------------------------
End of Disney comics Digest V98 Issue #87
*****************************************
Just spending a leisurely evening with some friends here at
Egmont, looking through some bound volumes of the 1950s British Mickey
Mouse Weekly (which will be indexed in due time, never you fear - *huge*
amounts of original material in them.
Most issues of the late 1950s have a front page designed with a
Sunday-page-type gag of Mickey, Morty, and Ferdie. They aren't real
Sunday pages - they're British own-production. And the artwork on most
of them isn't anything particularly inspired (shame, as some of the
other British material in the comics is drawn very well).
Except for the page of issue dated 11 October 1958. This page,
at least the art to it, is *unquestionably* by Romano Scarpa.
Yes, Romano Scarpa - right down to the (English language)
lettering, which is identical to that of many Italian Scarpa stories of
the period. The gag is very simple (MM agrees to take MF to the circus
if they succeed in frightening him badly enough, and they borrow a
dinosaur skeleton from a museum to effectively do this). But it's
unquestionably drawn, if not written, by Scarpa.
I'd wonder if this were taken from an Italian source, except
that the writing style and layout are identical to the British cover
strips of the time. No, I suspect Scarpa did this just for Vernon
Holding, the then-current English publisher.
Does any written account mention the existence of this page?
Certainly the only use of any Italian artist by the British magazine at
the time. Does Scarpa himself remember this one?
I've scanned and made a .gif file of the page, so while I don't
have access to put it on my website right now, I can certainly send it
to others who want a look.
David Gerstein
<(Email removed)>
--------------------------------
End of Disney comics Digest V98 Issue #87
*****************************************
Gerstein, David DK - ECN
Disney comics Digest V98 #87
Message 229 -
1998-03-28 at 18:50:05
MIKE:
I'd guess that the "Mighty Ducks" story you mention has been
picked up from either the Burbank J-program (Disney Comics/Disney
Adventures) or from Acclaim's now-dead-and-buried digest selection.
Since LIMIT is an Egmont publication, and Egmont in Britain uses this
same kind of material as an insert in their BIGTIME series, it wouldn't
surprise me if the material were not merely from the same source, but in
fact the same story selections.
Being at Egmont, I'll see if I can figure out where they're
getting them.
David Gerstein
<(Email removed)>
I'd guess that the "Mighty Ducks" story you mention has been
picked up from either the Burbank J-program (Disney Comics/Disney
Adventures) or from Acclaim's now-dead-and-buried digest selection.
Since LIMIT is an Egmont publication, and Egmont in Britain uses this
same kind of material as an insert in their BIGTIME series, it wouldn't
surprise me if the material were not merely from the same source, but in
fact the same story selections.
Being at Egmont, I'll see if I can figure out where they're
getting them.
David Gerstein
<(Email removed)>
Arthur De Wolf
Disney's copyrights
Message 230 -
1998-03-28 at 19:44:58
Hi!
First of all .... Happy Carl Barks Day everyone!!!!!
What I wanted to write about is an article I read today in a Dutch
newspaper. I had never thought about it, but Disney's copyright on
the character of Mickey Mouse runs out in 2003, which is 75 years after
Disney created him back in 1928. That's already in five years!! It sounds
really scary. Will everyone be able to use Mickey wherever they want?
I don't get it, though. First of all, I thought that a copyright is
terminated after 75 years AFTER the death of the creator, in this case
1966. Also, I thought that a copyright on a certain work can be transferred
to relatives after the creator has died. Well, at least this is all the
case in my country, the Netherlands. Here, the copyright on a work is
valid for 70 years after the creator died.
What will happen in 2003 if Disney doesn't manage to extend the copyright?
Is the first Mickey, from 'Steamboat Willy' (1928) the same as the one from
'Fantasia' or the later Mickey that we know today? All different Mickeys.
Maybe only version 1.0 of Mickey from 1928 will become copyright-free
in 2003? In that case, Disney has some extra decennia to try to keep the
rights to the modern Mickey!
At least Disney also took advantage of works that became common
property itself! Just look at 'Junglebook' from Kipling or Victor
Hugo's 'The Hunchback of Notre Dame'. Disney made it's own
versions of these stories, even making a happy-ending to the latter one!
And what will this mean for the Disney comics that we all like so much? Can
everone start making Mickey Mouse comics after 2003? This will certainly be
something very interesting. And after Mickey, other companies can start
making sequels to Dumbo, Bambi, Pinnochio and even Snow White, while
Disney also looses it's rights to Pluto in 2006, Goofy in 2008 and
after that Donald Duck, the nephews etcetera etcetera .......
Not a very pleasant view of the future for Disney ....
Bye!
Arthur
First of all .... Happy Carl Barks Day everyone!!!!!
What I wanted to write about is an article I read today in a Dutch
newspaper. I had never thought about it, but Disney's copyright on
the character of Mickey Mouse runs out in 2003, which is 75 years after
Disney created him back in 1928. That's already in five years!! It sounds
really scary. Will everyone be able to use Mickey wherever they want?
I don't get it, though. First of all, I thought that a copyright is
terminated after 75 years AFTER the death of the creator, in this case
1966. Also, I thought that a copyright on a certain work can be transferred
to relatives after the creator has died. Well, at least this is all the
case in my country, the Netherlands. Here, the copyright on a work is
valid for 70 years after the creator died.
What will happen in 2003 if Disney doesn't manage to extend the copyright?
Is the first Mickey, from 'Steamboat Willy' (1928) the same as the one from
'Fantasia' or the later Mickey that we know today? All different Mickeys.
Maybe only version 1.0 of Mickey from 1928 will become copyright-free
in 2003? In that case, Disney has some extra decennia to try to keep the
rights to the modern Mickey!
At least Disney also took advantage of works that became common
property itself! Just look at 'Junglebook' from Kipling or Victor
Hugo's 'The Hunchback of Notre Dame'. Disney made it's own
versions of these stories, even making a happy-ending to the latter one!
And what will this mean for the Disney comics that we all like so much? Can
everone start making Mickey Mouse comics after 2003? This will certainly be
something very interesting. And after Mickey, other companies can start
making sequels to Dumbo, Bambi, Pinnochio and even Snow White, while
Disney also looses it's rights to Pluto in 2006, Goofy in 2008 and
after that Donald Duck, the nephews etcetera etcetera .......
Not a very pleasant view of the future for Disney ....
Bye!
Arthur
Eta Beta
Bottaro & Scarpa
Message 231 -
1998-03-28 at 22:27:29
SOEREN and anybody interested
I posted some scans of Bottaro's "Capodanno e la Torta
Papera", I AT 73-A, 1/63 at
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Oracle/4531/tortapap.html
DAVID
[Previously unknown Scarpa page?]
>I've scanned and made a .gif file of the page, so while I don't
>have access to put it on my website right now, I can
>certainly send it to others who want a look.
Yes, please... :-) I'd be glad to take a look at it.
Cheers
Eta Beta
email to : (Email removed)
or to : (Email removed)
I posted some scans of Bottaro's "Capodanno e la Torta
Papera", I AT 73-A, 1/63 at
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Oracle/4531/tortapap.html
DAVID
[Previously unknown Scarpa page?]
>I've scanned and made a .gif file of the page, so while I don't
>have access to put it on my website right now, I can
>certainly send it to others who want a look.
Yes, please... :-) I'd be glad to take a look at it.
Cheers
Eta Beta
email to : (Email removed)
or to : (Email removed)
Marco Barlotti
The two Carpis
Message 232 -
1998-03-29 at 01:36:04
ETA BETA:
>
>However, I double-checked with the DcD which, in turn, clearly says
>
>writer : Giovan Battista Carpi
>
>Obviously, I cannot say which of the two references is the correct
>one, now...
>
>
Well, the DcD relies on **my** data for _Italian_ Disney stories. My web
page is updated more frequently, so ANY TIME there is a difference between
my FSB and the DcD you can be sure that the NEXT release of the DcD will
accept the changes made in the FSB.
Er... at least until Harry fires me, that is! ;-)
As for this particular instance, this was probably a misprint in Fossati's
original file. I have updated the FSB correcting many mistakes like this,
using Alberto Becattini's data on recent issues of "IF" (well, not VERY
recent but recent enough...).
As for your other problems: please check on the on-line FSB.
Better still, wait a couple of weeks (a new-improved version of the FSB is
due around Easter).
Marco
http://marcobar.cce.unifi.it/DisneyIndex
>
>However, I double-checked with the DcD which, in turn, clearly says
>
>writer : Giovan Battista Carpi
>
>Obviously, I cannot say which of the two references is the correct
>one, now...
>
>
Well, the DcD relies on **my** data for _Italian_ Disney stories. My web
page is updated more frequently, so ANY TIME there is a difference between
my FSB and the DcD you can be sure that the NEXT release of the DcD will
accept the changes made in the FSB.
Er... at least until Harry fires me, that is! ;-)
As for this particular instance, this was probably a misprint in Fossati's
original file. I have updated the FSB correcting many mistakes like this,
using Alberto Becattini's data on recent issues of "IF" (well, not VERY
recent but recent enough...).
As for your other problems: please check on the on-line FSB.
Better still, wait a couple of weeks (a new-improved version of the FSB is
due around Easter).
Marco
http://marcobar.cce.unifi.it/DisneyIndex
Marco Barlotti
Bottaro tracing Barks... Chierchini tracing Gottfredson...
Message 233 -
1998-03-29 at 01:36:06
ETA BETA:
>However, I don't really think Bottaro actually traced his "barksian"
>figures... he surely didn't need it, technically speaking, I guess
>he rather made exact copies... but why?
These figures were most probably traced. When I discovered that the
splash-panel by Chierchini in
I TL 194-A (10/9/1958)
Topolino e l'imperatore della luce (II)
/Martina/Chierchini/
31/avventura in Africa/Pippo
was copied by a Gottfredson story (Tzig-Tzag fever), daily strip of 17th
January 1951, I asked Carlo Chendi and he was not surprised at all. He told
me that copying, and even tracing, from the "masters" was a common practice
of our authors. After all, even Don Rosa has admitted "tracing" panels in
his "Life of $crooge", and he sure was deeply inspired by a Tony Strobl
story another time. This is neither strange nor wrong. If the copied image
melts well with the story, what's the problem???
(I must admit that when I was a child reading and reading again "Topolino e
l'imperatore della luce" I often wondered WHY Mickey had that finger
pointing to his right. NOW I know: he was pointing to the jungle IN
GOTTFREDSON'S PANEL...)
Marco
>However, I don't really think Bottaro actually traced his "barksian"
>figures... he surely didn't need it, technically speaking, I guess
>he rather made exact copies... but why?
These figures were most probably traced. When I discovered that the
splash-panel by Chierchini in
I TL 194-A (10/9/1958)
Topolino e l'imperatore della luce (II)
/Martina/Chierchini/
31/avventura in Africa/Pippo
was copied by a Gottfredson story (Tzig-Tzag fever), daily strip of 17th
January 1951, I asked Carlo Chendi and he was not surprised at all. He told
me that copying, and even tracing, from the "masters" was a common practice
of our authors. After all, even Don Rosa has admitted "tracing" panels in
his "Life of $crooge", and he sure was deeply inspired by a Tony Strobl
story another time. This is neither strange nor wrong. If the copied image
melts well with the story, what's the problem???
(I must admit that when I was a child reading and reading again "Topolino e
l'imperatore della luce" I often wondered WHY Mickey had that finger
pointing to his right. NOW I know: he was pointing to the jungle IN
GOTTFREDSON'S PANEL...)
Marco
Katie Sullivan
Barks' Birthday
Message 234 -
1998-03-29 at 04:24:11
Just one thing to say....
HAPPY BIRTHDAY UNCA CARL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:-)
Katie
HAPPY BIRTHDAY UNCA CARL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:-)
Katie
Donald D. Markstein
Junkville Journal
Message 235 -
1998-03-29 at 21:51:35
ARTHUR DE WOLF --
Copyrights can be excessively complex, as anyone who (like
me) has ever tried to determine for sure if something is in the
public domain can attest. As a friend once put it, anything is in
the public domain that nobody with a lawyer wants. Nothing is in
the public domain that anyone with a lawyer wants. Disney has
lawyers, and isn't afraid to use them -- therefore, anybody who
uses "their" stuff, whether or not it's technically in the public
domain, risks being ground into a fine, white powder.
But the operant factor is probably trademark, not
copyright. An individual work can be copyrighted, but a title or
character can be trademarked, and that lasts longer -- as long as
the property is in use and the trademark is maintained, in fact.
Thus, we may arrive at a point where STEAMBOAT WILLIE is in the
public domain, but Mickey Mouse is not. If such should become the
case, anyone could use the cartoon (risking having to defend a
perhaps-baseless lawsuit, of course), but only as long as
Mickey's name is not used to sell it.
We had an interesting related situation here in the U.S.
about ten years ago. It seems there was some sort of clerical
error (or something similar) during the 1950s. Many of the early
Mickey Mouse newspaper strips didn't get their copyrights
renewed, and therefore (allegedly) fell into the public domain.
A small comic book publisher (Malibu, which was later absorbed
by Marvel) started reprinting them under the name "The
Uncensored Mouse", with totally black covers and no mention or
likeness of Mickey in any of their promotions (they relied on
word of mouth to alert people to its contents, which, in my case
at least, worked). It lasted two issues before they came to an
"agreement" with Disney. Details of the agreement were never made
public, but my guess is, Malibu agreed not to publish any more
issues or sell more copies of the ones they'd already done, and
Disney agreed not to grind Malibu into a fine, white powder.
Quack, Don
Copyrights can be excessively complex, as anyone who (like
me) has ever tried to determine for sure if something is in the
public domain can attest. As a friend once put it, anything is in
the public domain that nobody with a lawyer wants. Nothing is in
the public domain that anyone with a lawyer wants. Disney has
lawyers, and isn't afraid to use them -- therefore, anybody who
uses "their" stuff, whether or not it's technically in the public
domain, risks being ground into a fine, white powder.
But the operant factor is probably trademark, not
copyright. An individual work can be copyrighted, but a title or
character can be trademarked, and that lasts longer -- as long as
the property is in use and the trademark is maintained, in fact.
Thus, we may arrive at a point where STEAMBOAT WILLIE is in the
public domain, but Mickey Mouse is not. If such should become the
case, anyone could use the cartoon (risking having to defend a
perhaps-baseless lawsuit, of course), but only as long as
Mickey's name is not used to sell it.
We had an interesting related situation here in the U.S.
about ten years ago. It seems there was some sort of clerical
error (or something similar) during the 1950s. Many of the early
Mickey Mouse newspaper strips didn't get their copyrights
renewed, and therefore (allegedly) fell into the public domain.
A small comic book publisher (Malibu, which was later absorbed
by Marvel) started reprinting them under the name "The
Uncensored Mouse", with totally black covers and no mention or
likeness of Mickey in any of their promotions (they relied on
word of mouth to alert people to its contents, which, in my case
at least, worked). It lasted two issues before they came to an
"agreement" with Disney. Details of the agreement were never made
public, but my guess is, Malibu agreed not to publish any more
issues or sell more copies of the ones they'd already done, and
Disney agreed not to grind Malibu into a fine, white powder.
Quack, Don
SRoweCanoe
Disney comics Digest V98 #88
Message 236 -
1998-03-30 at 00:27:32
In a message dated 98-03-29 12:39:10 EST, Arthur writes:
<< What I wanted to write about is an article I read today in a Dutch
newspaper. I had never thought about it, but Disney's copyright on
the character of Mickey Mouse runs out in 2003, which is 75 years after
Disney created him back in 1928. That's already in five years!! It sounds
really scary. Will everyone be able to use Mickey wherever they want >>
This is where Disney's lawyers will get their workout protecting the
trademark.
And, there are allready expired Mickey Mouse - such as the early newspaper
strip and the short Mad Scientist.
The Boy Scouts and Christian Scientists have allready had their copyrights
expire; but the trademark laws protect their names and likeness.
Steven Rowe
<< What I wanted to write about is an article I read today in a Dutch
newspaper. I had never thought about it, but Disney's copyright on
the character of Mickey Mouse runs out in 2003, which is 75 years after
Disney created him back in 1928. That's already in five years!! It sounds
really scary. Will everyone be able to use Mickey wherever they want >>
This is where Disney's lawyers will get their workout protecting the
trademark.
And, there are allready expired Mickey Mouse - such as the early newspaper
strip and the short Mad Scientist.
The Boy Scouts and Christian Scientists have allready had their copyrights
expire; but the trademark laws protect their names and likeness.
Steven Rowe
Martin
Proud owner
Message 237 -
1998-03-30 at 01:05:30
------ =_NextPart_000_01BD5B45.B18E3580
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
This thanks message goes to the DC Digest as a team, specially to Paolo =
Castagno, Gianfranco Goria, Eta Beta, and very specially to Frank =
Fabian, regarding Disney Comics in Latin: subject started in Disney =
comics Digest #55 (middle of frebruary).
Everybody provided important information wich presently make me a proud =
owner of Donaldus Anas atque nox Saraceni. Suposing anybody else is =
interested in Latin comics:
1) European Language Institute (ELI) -Italy- doesn't have them anymore.
2) Remaining amounts are still avaiable at Ernst Klett Verlag in =
Stuttgart-Germany. They are reachable at http://www.klett.de.
Tibi habeo maximas gratias!!!
Martin Loebmann
------ =_NextPart_000_01BD5B45.B18E3580
Content-Type: application/ms-tnef
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64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------ =_NextPart_000_01BD5B45.B18E3580--
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
This thanks message goes to the DC Digest as a team, specially to Paolo =
Castagno, Gianfranco Goria, Eta Beta, and very specially to Frank =
Fabian, regarding Disney Comics in Latin: subject started in Disney =
comics Digest #55 (middle of frebruary).
Everybody provided important information wich presently make me a proud =
owner of Donaldus Anas atque nox Saraceni. Suposing anybody else is =
interested in Latin comics:
1) European Language Institute (ELI) -Italy- doesn't have them anymore.
2) Remaining amounts are still avaiable at Ernst Klett Verlag in =
Stuttgart-Germany. They are reachable at http://www.klett.de.
Tibi habeo maximas gratias!!!
Martin Loebmann
------ =_NextPart_000_01BD5B45.B18E3580
Content-Type: application/ms-tnef
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64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------ =_NextPart_000_01BD5B45.B18E3580--
Eta Beta
Bottaro & FSB
Message 238 -
1998-03-30 at 04:54:35
MARCO
[on Bottaro tracing Barks]
>These figures were most probably traced....
>...This is neither strange nor wrong. If the copied image
>melts well with the story, what's the problem???
No problem at all, Bottaro is still one of my favourite authors,
notwhitstanding his tracing or not, I even have books of "Pepito"
and "Whisky & Gogo"... it's just one of those curios that are bound
to attract fans' attention, sooner or later... ;-)
In fact, I agree with you that tracing was a common practice for
the Italian "pioneers" like Carpi, Perego and our Bottaro (Scarpa
was already in a different league, IMO), while they got acquainted
with the "new" characters.
Their stories from the early fifties clearly show that the model
for Donald was Taliaferro's, while Scrooge (thankfully) was as
"Barksian" as it can be...
However, the story I submitted (Capodanno e la torta papera) is from
1963, about ten years after Bottaro's "debut" with Disney characters,
and I just wonder *why* he felt like using traced (or copied) images
when he clearly could have drawn them entirely by himself...
curiosity... that's all... WHY Mickey had that finger pointing to his
right ?... ;-)
[on Carpi vs. Carpi]
>I have updated the FSB correcting many mistakes like this,
>using Alberto Becattini's data on recent issues of
>"IF" (well, not VERY recent but recent enough...).
Grrrr... I can't find *any* of Alberto's indexes... :-(
>As for your other problems: please check on the on-line FSB.
>Better still, wait a couple of weeks (a new-improved version of the FSB is
>due around Easter).
Well, I'll have to wait just a bit more, but no problem. :-)
"See" you all in May, folks
Cheers
Eta Beta
[on Bottaro tracing Barks]
>These figures were most probably traced....
>...This is neither strange nor wrong. If the copied image
>melts well with the story, what's the problem???
No problem at all, Bottaro is still one of my favourite authors,
notwhitstanding his tracing or not, I even have books of "Pepito"
and "Whisky & Gogo"... it's just one of those curios that are bound
to attract fans' attention, sooner or later... ;-)
In fact, I agree with you that tracing was a common practice for
the Italian "pioneers" like Carpi, Perego and our Bottaro (Scarpa
was already in a different league, IMO), while they got acquainted
with the "new" characters.
Their stories from the early fifties clearly show that the model
for Donald was Taliaferro's, while Scrooge (thankfully) was as
"Barksian" as it can be...
However, the story I submitted (Capodanno e la torta papera) is from
1963, about ten years after Bottaro's "debut" with Disney characters,
and I just wonder *why* he felt like using traced (or copied) images
when he clearly could have drawn them entirely by himself...
curiosity... that's all... WHY Mickey had that finger pointing to his
right ?... ;-)
[on Carpi vs. Carpi]
>I have updated the FSB correcting many mistakes like this,
>using Alberto Becattini's data on recent issues of
>"IF" (well, not VERY recent but recent enough...).
Grrrr... I can't find *any* of Alberto's indexes... :-(
>As for your other problems: please check on the on-line FSB.
>Better still, wait a couple of weeks (a new-improved version of the FSB is
>due around Easter).
Well, I'll have to wait just a bit more, but no problem. :-)
"See" you all in May, folks
Cheers
Eta Beta
Ron Evry
Disney Copyrights
Message 239 -
1998-03-30 at 06:02:13
The 75 years after death (fifty in the US) only applies anywhere to
individual copyrights. As far as I know, nothing was personally copyrighted
by old Walt -- everything went to WDP, a corporate entity if there ever was
one. The limit on that stuff is 75 years flat. And in the US, that only
applies if the material was still under active copyright when the revised
law went into effect. If say, Disney copyrighted something in 1930, then
failed to renew 28 years later in 1958, then it would have fallen into
public domian.
Steamboat Willie, if I recall, was made in 1928, which would put it in the
Public Domain in 2003. Every year after that, more Disney films will fall
into the PD. HOWEVER -- The image (and the name) of Mickey Mouse as a
trademark remains active forever, as long as it remains in active use. So
the conundrum here would be that the cartoons (and eventually the comics)
will be fair game to reprint without permission, but nowhere in the
advertisements, or packaging or promotions could the image or name be used.
Eclipse comics "The Uncensored Mouse" tried to get away with reprinting
what it thought were PD comic strips by putting out books with all black
covers that failed to mention Mickey by name. They got nabbed by Disney's
lawyers when they printed _one_ comic strip that had apparently been
reprinted in a copyrighted book years after it was created, therefore
renewing the copyright long enough to benefit from the 75 year rule -- and
getting caught with one was enough. Eclipse had to cease the title.
Copyright law is excrutiatingly difficult to understand these days. It is
possible to copyright something anonymously to boot -- which should make it
realy difficult to make head nor tails out of the death plus fifty or
seventy five rule.
The intriguing thing would have been if old Walt had personally copyrighted
his stuff -- then the company would have a good reason to claim he's a
popsicle somewhere and not really dead :)
-=-Uncle Ron-=-
=========================================================
-=-Ron Evry-=-
Author of Witzworx, the Shareware Comic Book Font!
Available at http://www.reuben.org/evry/witzworx.html
=========================================================
individual copyrights. As far as I know, nothing was personally copyrighted
by old Walt -- everything went to WDP, a corporate entity if there ever was
one. The limit on that stuff is 75 years flat. And in the US, that only
applies if the material was still under active copyright when the revised
law went into effect. If say, Disney copyrighted something in 1930, then
failed to renew 28 years later in 1958, then it would have fallen into
public domian.
Steamboat Willie, if I recall, was made in 1928, which would put it in the
Public Domain in 2003. Every year after that, more Disney films will fall
into the PD. HOWEVER -- The image (and the name) of Mickey Mouse as a
trademark remains active forever, as long as it remains in active use. So
the conundrum here would be that the cartoons (and eventually the comics)
will be fair game to reprint without permission, but nowhere in the
advertisements, or packaging or promotions could the image or name be used.
Eclipse comics "The Uncensored Mouse" tried to get away with reprinting
what it thought were PD comic strips by putting out books with all black
covers that failed to mention Mickey by name. They got nabbed by Disney's
lawyers when they printed _one_ comic strip that had apparently been
reprinted in a copyrighted book years after it was created, therefore
renewing the copyright long enough to benefit from the 75 year rule -- and
getting caught with one was enough. Eclipse had to cease the title.
Copyright law is excrutiatingly difficult to understand these days. It is
possible to copyright something anonymously to boot -- which should make it
realy difficult to make head nor tails out of the death plus fifty or
seventy five rule.
The intriguing thing would have been if old Walt had personally copyrighted
his stuff -- then the company would have a good reason to claim he's a
popsicle somewhere and not really dead :)
-=-Uncle Ron-=-
=========================================================
-=-Ron Evry-=-
Author of Witzworx, the Shareware Comic Book Font!
Available at http://www.reuben.org/evry/witzworx.html
=========================================================
Bror Hellman
Disney's copyrights
Message 240 -
1998-03-30 at 07:36:33
> I don't get it, though. First of all, I thought that a copyright is
> terminated after 75 years AFTER the death of the creator, in this case
> 1966. Also, I thought that a copyright on a certain work can be
transferred
> to relatives after the creator has died. Well, at least this is all
the
> case in my country, the Netherlands. Here, the copyright on a work is
> valid for 70 years after the creator died.
Well... the common european community (c)opyright laws differ between
authors and other creators.
> What will happen in 2003 if Disney doesn't manage to extend the
copyright?
> Is the first Mickey, from 'Steamboat Willy' (1928) the same as the one
from
> 'Fantasia' or the later Mickey that we know today? All different
Mickeys.
> Maybe only version 1.0 of Mickey from 1928 will become copyright-free
> in 2003? In that case, Disney has some extra decennia to try to keep
the
> rights to the modern Mickey!
No, according to my sources. Miuckey Mouse is trademarked both as a name
and in appearance. And so are the other characters. To make a Comic or
another movie with them would still be a violation of copyright laws.
And international laws give some protection to "established" products.
If not -- both Coca Cola and Pepsi would be
free for anyone to use.
But the actual movie "Steamboat Willie" will loose most of it's
protection.
None of this have - of course - been tried at court, since noone but
Disney have such a long history
of animation to defend with still living characters after so many years.
Steamboat Willie
> terminated after 75 years AFTER the death of the creator, in this case
> 1966. Also, I thought that a copyright on a certain work can be
transferred
> to relatives after the creator has died. Well, at least this is all
the
> case in my country, the Netherlands. Here, the copyright on a work is
> valid for 70 years after the creator died.
Well... the common european community (c)opyright laws differ between
authors and other creators.
> What will happen in 2003 if Disney doesn't manage to extend the
copyright?
> Is the first Mickey, from 'Steamboat Willy' (1928) the same as the one
from
> 'Fantasia' or the later Mickey that we know today? All different
Mickeys.
> Maybe only version 1.0 of Mickey from 1928 will become copyright-free
> in 2003? In that case, Disney has some extra decennia to try to keep
the
> rights to the modern Mickey!
No, according to my sources. Miuckey Mouse is trademarked both as a name
and in appearance. And so are the other characters. To make a Comic or
another movie with them would still be a violation of copyright laws.
And international laws give some protection to "established" products.
If not -- both Coca Cola and Pepsi would be
free for anyone to use.
But the actual movie "Steamboat Willie" will loose most of it's
protection.
None of this have - of course - been tried at court, since noone but
Disney have such a long history
of animation to defend with still living characters after so many years.
Steamboat Willie