Keskustelujen arkisto

> BTW, it's extremely funny that those Rabbit story woiuld be banned
> because one doesn't want to offend the black people. It was the black
> slaves in the South who told those stories. Rabbit was then supposed to
> be a smart black human and the bear and fox were the stupid white
> slave-dealers.

>2) Bre'r Rabbit, Bre'r Bear and Bre'r Fox originally comes from
>the feature film "Song of the South", which in it's turn is based
>on a collection of folktales, etc. called "Uncle Remus Tales".

Well "Song of the South" is based on Joel Chandler Harris's books about Uncle
Remus and his stories of Brer Rabbit. "Brer", by the way is dialect for
"Brother".
The stories by Harris were new (as far as I know), but Trickster Rabbit
stories were popular in both africian and native american culture. ((Harris
lived in central Georgia, home of the Cherokees - who had some great
trickster rabbit tales. Harris was also white)). I can no longer recall
Harris's time of writing, but in the Disney movie version, Remus is a
sharecropper and field worker and not a slave.
Dialect humor is a thing that is no longer acceptable in the USA. Brother
Rabbit and Brother Bear have mixtures of Georgian (both black and white)
mixed with Hollywood. Other dialect humor no longer acceptable in the USA
include Irish, Jewish, Chinese, Japanese, etc etc. In fact the only
dialect humor still semi-acceptable is "redneck' humor ("You know you're a
redneck, when...); just make sure you don't call it "cracker" humor...
Hopefully in 100 years, dialect humor will make a comeback, unmarked by
rascist or ethnic hatred...

Steven Rowe

I find it wonderful that Barks chose "three cubic acres"
to describe the amount of money in Scrooge's bin. Since
`acre' is a two-dimensional measure, of area, it would
follow that the Ducks live in (m^2)^3-space, that is, in
some six-dimensional space. Makes sense to me.

One could invite the Duckists on our list to discuss the
peculiarities and consequences and side effects of life in
six-dimensional space. However, on this occasion I'd be happy
to have your collective expert help to check for me

. Where was Barks' first use of the "three cubic acres" of money?
. Did he stick to this later on (with reasonable consistency)?
(I think he did.)
. I *think* this has been followed up (with _some_ consistency)
by Norwegian translations, using "tre kubikkmaal". Where is
the first reference to this, in the Norwegian weekly DD & Co?

Nils Lid Hjort

Hey, everyone!

>BTW, it's extremely funny that those Rabbit story woiuld be banned
>because one doesn't want to offend the black people. It was the black
>slaves in the South who told those stories. Rabbit was then supposed to
>be a smart black human and the bear and fox were the stupid white
>slave-dealers.

Let me try to be as clear as possible...
In the USA, Brer Rabbit is *not* banned as a *character*.
The original Brer Rabbit folktales are still beloved, including
among our black citizens, who know exactly what they mean (rabbit = slave,
fox = master).
Disney's Brer Rabbit can still be found in story books, on
Sing-A-Long Songs video tapes, and at the Disneyland ride "Splash Mountain".
Brer Rabbit the character is *not* politically incorrect.
But...
Here's what *is* considered politically incorrect:
The stories' exaggerated dialect.
That's it!
People who find the Brer Rabbit folktales offensive object not to
the tales themselves (or to the character of Brer Rabbit), but specifically
to the 1880s Joel Chandler Harris Uncle Remus versions of the tales. These
are the versions that are written in extreme dialect. Modern, new editions
of the stories, rewritten by modern-day authors, tend either to have less
dialect, or none at all.
Disney doesn't object to Brer Rabbit appearing in comic book form
(or to the character of Brer Rabbit). What they object to is the use of,
once again, extreme dialect, in this case in the earlier comic book stories.
(Disney in the USA objects also to their old movie "Song of the
South", but again, *not* because of Brer Rabbit himself - instead, because
of the stereotypical black character played by actress Hattie McDaniel in
the live-action parts of the movie.)

David Gerstein
<dge at ecn.egmont.com>
"Brer Rabbit is *my friend*! Ain't nobody gonna eat him - except
*me*!"
(Brer Fox in 1946, going to rescue Brer Rabbit upon believing that
he's been captured by a ghost)

> Arie:
>
> | Being yellow, i've never even think of any skin colour of Donald and
crew.
>
> [and some more]
> J?rgen
> I guess you and Bamse prove what I thought - that the skin colour is just
> irrelevant.
> BTW, it's funny that you call yourself yellow. When I was a kid we were
> told that it was racist to call Asian people yellow. A lot of people
> were politically correct on other's behalf in the seventies...
Hmm, it is not that odd, i think. it's like introducing ourselves just like
you did. i'm white, and maybe someone else said i'm black. it's not really
offensive BUT the offensive things come when someone else describe your skin
colour, mostly with a very bad ill will. ie. hey look at the black over
there, whic you would rather say hey lookat the MAN over there. Now that
(naming the skin colour) is very unpolite. It's what you cvalled racists.
but introducing our own skin colour is more of identifying ourselves to
others. That's just my opinion really.

BTW, i'm kinda used to racism things since i've been livin here growing up
with some discrimination treatments from some racists here. FYI, i am
actually have chinese blood and chinese are not very well liked here in
Indonesia. The fact is known of the May 1997 incident where hundreds of
indo-chinese women were raped, the men were killed or brutally abuse and
there's this massive open-robbing and burning. The capital where i live was
in a BIG chaos. The military couldn't or wouldn't do a thing to stop it.
Indo-chinese people's house were looted and the house were burned. My cousin
was a victim there and he saw very frightening scenes. i was luckily at my
home. At the incident, the capital was practically stopped all activities
for TWO WEEKS and many of us, chinese and real Indonesian ones stayed all
night to guard for the threats of looters and etc.

Enough about that though.

Best,

[I am posting the translations of two articles from last month's Komix,
which I believe are of interest to the list. As usual, comments in square
brackets are my own.]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

THE BACK STAGE OF A STORY
_Komix_ talks with Don Rosa about luck, the ducks, and Barks.

_Komix_ met Don Rosa in the highways of cyberspace and had the
opportunity to exchange with him ideas and views, with his story titled
_The Sign of the Triple Distelfink_ as a starting point. The result
of this discussion with the great creator is at your disposal!

KOMIX: How did you come up with the famous Triple Distelfink?

ROSA: When German immigrants came to America 200 years ago, they brought with
them--or they may have created--the tradition of drawing large "magic symbols"
on their barns for good luck. There were many different such symbols, one of
which was the so called "distelfink", a paraphrase of the German words
"Thistle finch", which is a kind of small country bird. A more drastic good
luck charm was the "double" distelfink, so I thought that for someone having
Gladstone's luck, a "triple" distelfink would be most appropriate!

KOMIX: You had said that you are not going to create another kind of _Life and
Times_ for another character apart from uncle Scrooge. Have you changed your
mind?

ROSA: But the _Triple Distelfink_ is only one story, not a series of chapters
as is _The Life and Times of Scrooge McDuck_. In addition, this is a memory
recalled by Gladstone; the story does not take place entirely in the past. I
may do the same for Donald at some point. It will have nothing to do with
the--by now fifteen--chapters of the _Life and Times_.

KOMIX: How different are these two cases?

ROSA: The _Life and Times_ shows the changes in uncle Scrooge during his life,
how he became the hero he is today. On the other hand, the _Triple Distelfink_
takes place today. Besides, when I make a story with Donald or Gladstone, I
don't have the feeling of dealing with a character as complex as Scrooge
McDuck.

KOMIX: In your stories, it is usually the nephews who make pointy remarks that
penetrate the character of other people. In the _triple Distelfink_, however,
this part is played by uncle Scrooge in the end of the story... Your
characters often appear to be fully conscious of what is happening, much more
than in the stories of Carl Barks...

ROSA: Doing something like this is not difficult, as I am in the position to
know something that Barks didn't. I know that these stories are not read only
by children, and so I always put in some "deeper meaning". Of course, Barks
would have done it himself (and he sometimes did), however, he may have
concluded that he had not been addressing adults, so this may be why he didn't
do it as often as he'd like. Regarding the nephews, you are right. To me,
their eyes are the most discerning in Duckburg, and I always try to reveal
fragments of their philosophy in my stories, though not too many and all at
once, as this would have been boring and hardly effective. Every once in a
while, however, I also try to show how Scrooge may think or feel about Donald
and vice versa.

KOMIX: Scrooge has often been as lucky as Gladstone and, in his way, he also
has an "internal tendency towards self-destruction", like Donald. Otherwise,
he wouldn't have taken so many risks! However, unlike his nephews, he owes
nothing to chance and always manages to gain something, even when following
the hard path. Do you believe that this is the difference between a real hero
like Scrooge, and an "ordinary duck", like Donald and Gladstone?

ROSA:
Wow! These are very good observations!!! Had never thought about it that way,
but you are right. It is very nice to learn how someone else sees my work,
because most times I have not thought about all this and simply act on
intuition. Thus, my answer to you long and ingenious question can only be
"yes".

KOMIX: Are you going to create more stories on the subject of Donald and
Gladstone's rivalry, according to Barks' tradition?

ROSA: I don't intend not to! However, I find that stories with Gladstone are
difficult, in that each time they require a new angle that expresses how
lucky he is. It seems to me that any story that I might make about Gladstone,
it would appear similar to a previous one. And finally, I prefer adventure
stories, rather than gag stories. Despite all this, I'd like to draw a long
adventure with Donald and Gladstone, as with Daisy.

KOMIX: A kiss in _A Little Something Special_, and death in the _Life and
Times_, a birth in the _Triple Distelfink_: such scenes are not at all common
in Disney comics. Your comment on this?

ROSA: I don't know if other creators are addressing a younger audience. I
don't know. I've heard, however, that some readers don't like seeing the ducks
having human emotions--they prefer to see the heroes as one-dimensional
characters living fairy tale lives, as perhaps they remember them from when
they were kids. I have no problem with this,. This is why there are so many
and different stories in Disney comics; there is something for everyone, so
these readers can simply not read "my" stories. I do not wish to disappoint
them, but I do not wish to make the kind of stories that they want, either.

[Side panel]

THE GOOD LUCK BIRD

Don Rosa loves history, mythology, and the folk traditions of various peoples.
For the _Triple Distelfink_ he looked for the source of his inspiration in the
folklore of his own country. In the original, the name of the bird drawn by
the itinerant painter on the barn is "Distelfink". According to a folk belief
brought to Pennsylvania by the first settlers who were of German descent, this
adorable bird brings good luck and happiness to farmers. In reality, it is
merely a kind of finch that frequents barns because of his love for wheat's
golden seeds. This is why many people call it a gold-finch.

[picture]

As this drawing, from a recent art auction shows, the bird of good luck is
framed by a tulip, symbolizing love, faith, and wealth, and by a heart,
symbolizing happiness for everyone. Even today, in some rural parts of
America, this symbol remains one of the most popular good luck charms.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Don Rosa, Gladstone and the Triple Distelfink
THE SECRET OF GOOD LUCK

As with many other Barks characters, Gladstone merely framed Donald's
world. Later, of course, he evolved to a complex character with his
own personality. Today, Don Rosa reveals to us the unknown aspects
of the life of the luckiest duck in the world.

The main characteristic of the personality of Gladstone, the elegant Duckburg
citizen, as shaped by Carl Barks, is not only his outrageously good fortune,
but the attitude towards life that he incarnates. Unlike uncle Scrooge, who
owes nothing to chance, Gladstone owes her literally everything. Everything
and nothing more; his unbeatably good luck which makes him always come on top,
allows him to be the incarnation of complete fatalism: Gladstone is unwilling
to make the slightest effort to gain something that his luck cannot give him,
and, when things go wrong, he resigns immediately, certain that around the
next corner a wallet, dropped by a passer-by, will be waiting for him.

Like Donald, Gladstone does not ask much of his life. He is also totally
incapable of taking his fortune in his hands, and has no ambition whatsoever.
In the final analysis, the cars and home appliances that he wins in lotteries
are not very different from the ice cream soda that his cousin earns with his
sweat. Unlike uncle Scrooge's wealth, which is a symbol of and an award for a
rich life, Gladstone's winnings have no symbolic value whatsoever. They are
completely ephemeral consumer goods, which will soon be replaced by something
else.

A HERO WITHOUT A PAST
Like the incurably unlucky Donald, Gladstone lives in the present and only
for the present. And this means that not only does he not have any plans or
dreams for the future, but his past hasn't taught him anything important
either! To be precise, he is a character without a past. This is exactly what
Don Rosa had told us when we asked him if, after the _Life and Times_ he
was planning on writing other similar biographies for the other members of the
Duck family: "I don't think that this would be a good idea. Dealing with an
uncle Scrooge biography comes naturally. He has lived countless adventures for
more than eighty years... for Donald, however, exactly the opposite is true!
Donald's charm lies in his being a common mortal. He has no past... at least
nothing worth while has happened to him in the past. (...). His past is that
of the average, common mortal. The same is true for Gladstone. He is
excessively lucky, but his past has nothing special". (_Komix_ #99).

A DUCK WITH A COMPLEX CHARACTER
What makes Barks' ducks stand out from countless other comics heroes are
their complex-contradictory characters. In Gladstone's case, the basic
contradiction of his character is the contrast between his outrageously good
fortune and his even more outrageous fatalism. And it is precisely this
contradiction that appears to be the deeper cause of the inexplicable mutual
dislike between the two ruthless cousins. Is it a simple rivalry for Daisy's
heart? Is it just an unavoidable clash between two egos, which may end in the
most surrealistic contests, where no holds are barred? Unknown. The only
thing that the reader can conclude is that the characters of the two ducks
are, in a strange way, complementary. In the final analysis, they are both
equally fatalistic; it is just that one is lucky and the other is unlucky. If
Gladstone incarnates what Donald would like to be, Donald is everything that
Gladstone would never want to be.

THE BIOGRAPHY OF A COMMON DUCK
This is, in a rough outline, Gladstone's character, as shaped by Carl Barks.
Don Rosa does not overturn these data, preferring, as he usually does, to look
for originality in the art of variation and deeper study. As he had told
_Komix_, he could never write a long biography of the luckiest duck in the
world. The _Triple Distelfink_ seems t be a first test chapter for such a
peculiar biography. If the _Life and Times_ can be compared to a novel, a
great composition that recounts the gradual shaping of a hero through his past
and lays the foundation for his "future" evolution, the the _Triple
Distelfink_ story is more similar to a short, self-contained story.

The main idea of the story relies on the two main characteristics of the
Barksian lucky guy. On one hand, the contradiction between Gladstone's
fatalism and his good luck, and on the other hand, the rivalry between the
two cousins, who could have been the best of friends. Thus, instead of facing
the mysterious bad luck that plagues him each year on his birthday, Gladstone
simply tries to avoid it, a fact that is the starting point for an avalanche
of gags that Barks himself would have envied. When the pieces of the puzzle
come together and the heroes understand the cause of the disasters, they
react exactly as one would have expected. Instead of trying to overcome their
differences, they enter a contest once more: Gladstone to get rid of the
curse that plagues him, and Donald to gain part of his cousin's luck.

[side panel]
EXAMPLES TO AVOID
Unlike uncle Scrooge, a hero who evolves and always manages to learn something
from his mistakes, the reactions of the two ruthless cousins are
disappointingly predictable. The ending of the story surprises no one:
Gladstone remains lucky, and Donald unlucky.

What could be the interest in such a story? The moral, if there is one, is
completely negative, as both Gladstone and Donald are examples to avoid! The
interest lies elsewhere. The _Triple Distelfink_ is not one more contest
between the two cousins; it is an amazing exercise in story-telling dexterity.
Completely respecting the characters of Carl Barks' heroes, Don Rosa proves
that he can set up a scenario more complex than the scenaria of his great
master, in a most delightful story that unravels in a frenetic pace. At the
same time, through uncle Scrooge's... beak, Rosa makes a pointed remark on the
charm of stories that tell of these contests with the so unpredictable
outcome: "I wonder what will be more potent..." wonders the rich duck,
"Gladstone's luck , or Donald's eternal tendency towards self-destruction?"
One thing is certain. This should be a good show!"

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kriton (e-mail: kyrimis at cti.gr)
(WWW: http://dias.cti.gr/~kyrimis
-----
"You must be confusing me with someone else. Me, probably."
-----

Hallo there!
I`m just wondering, that`s up, are Don Rosa making a new storie or something, anything! I know that Don Rosa himself is joining this list, maybe he can answer my question???

Jacob

In a message dated 3/2/00 9:32:19 PM Eastern Standard Time,
dcml-admin at stp.ling.uu.se (David G.) writes:

> The stories' exaggerated dialect.
> That's it!
> People who find the Brer Rabbit folktales offensive object not to
> the tales themselves (or to the character of Brer Rabbit), but specifically
> to the 1880s Joel Chandler Harris Uncle Remus versions of the tales. These
> are the versions that are written in extreme dialect. Modern, new editions
> of the stories, rewritten by modern-day authors, tend either to have less
> dialect, or none at all.
> Disney doesn't object to Brer Rabbit appearing in comic book form
> (or to the character of Brer Rabbit). What they object to is the use of,
> once again, extreme dialect, in this case in the earlier comic book
stories.

actually David, alot of this dialect still sounds just like poor rural
southern dialect - which I still hear occasionaly (by those over 60 years old
). And I guess Disney thinks "Brer" is a first name?

Steven Rowe

Subject: Kari Korhonen

I just want to inform the Germans, Swiss and Austrians on this list that the
great continued story, that Joakim Gunnarsson mentioned, will be in Micky
Maus 15/16. It's really outstanding! IMHO Kari Korhonen is one of the best
Disney-authors ever. Every single one of his stories is something special,
something to be remembered. And this continued story (German title: "Drei
Wochen bis zum Weltuntergang" - "Three Weeks until the End of the World") is
even one of his very best, I think. Be prepared!

Joachim Stahl