Sonia asked, and I don't think has been answered directly:
Are all comics with Indians banned in the US? Does this mean you
don't see comic albums with Yakari, which are so great (But not
Disney-comics)
Sonia, in the US Constitution, the first amendment guarantees the right of
freedom of speech which has always been construed to mean publishing. The
ban on certain parts of Disney comics is internal to Disney. One can
publish most anything in the US except "obscene" material which the Supreme
Court said, in a bad decision, could be defined by the local community. As
a result, Michael Diana is the only comics artist whose work has been banned
by the government.. in this case Florida's legal system. As in all things,
this right is honored to a greater or lesser degree depending on
circumstances. The Supreme Court has ruled as well that there is usually no
grounds for "prior restraint" or telling someone that they can't publish
something.
See the Comic Book Legal Defense Fund site for more information at
http://www.cbldf.org/ .
Mike Rhode
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Author
Topic: 200003
(174 messages)
Michael Rhode
Banning comics and the first amendment
Message 31 -
2000-03-03 at 16:02:26
Pietro Reynaud-Bersanino
Three cubic acres (Nils Lid Hjort)
Message 32 -
2000-03-03 at 17:22:11
In DCML digest, Vol 1 #100, you wrote:
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 13:27:15 +0100
Message-Id: <200003021227.NAA30563 at dioscuri.uio.no>
From: Nils Lid Hjort <nils at math.uio.no>
>I find it wonderful that Barks chose "three cubic acres"
>to describe the amount of money in Scrooge's bin. Since
>`acre' is a two-dimensional measure, of area, it would
>follow that the Ducks live in (m^2)^3-space, that is, in
>some six-dimensional space.
I immediately remembered some letters on some old Uncle Scroge about this
topic.
I found them and i scannennered for DCML. I hope could interest!
Maybe some of the writers are members?
Has anybody got Mr Keellam's letter in U$ #252 ? Please send it to me ... I
am being waitig to read it since 1991!!
=========================================================
MAIL BIN: UNCLE SCROOGE #256
Dear Editor
Mr. Kellam's letter in Uncle Scrooge #252 calls to our attention an
important mystery conceming the size of Uncle Scrooge's money bin: More
remarkable still, however, is the fact that Mr. Kellam's letter solves a
second mystery that has been troubling me for several months, while,
contrarywise, the second mystery appears to solve the first. Let me explain.
You see, a few months ago, when I received an Uncle Scroge comic book in
the mail, I hapeened to notice there was something extra enclosed w?thin
the comic book: It was a brittle, yellowed envelope which appeared to be
very old. Thinking that someone at the publishing house had accidentally
dropped an advertisement in with my subscrlption, I was about to throw it
away wh?n I noticed the letters S. McD. scribbled in pencil in one corner.
Then, as you may imagine, my curiosity was greatly aroused. I hastened to
open the envelope. Inside was a single sheet of paper containing the sketch
ot a cube. On examining the sketch more closely, I noticed that the six
sides of the cube had been carefully shaded in with cross-hatches. Beneath
the sketch, the following inscription appeared:
43,560 / 6 = 7,260
I pondered over the sketch for many hours, but to no avail; I could not
fathom its meaning. So matters countinued until I read Mr. Kellam's letter
today. Then, suddenly, the meaning of the old sketch became perfectly clear:
Mr. Kellam assumes that a cubic acre means the volume of a standard cube,
each side of which is one acre in area. As he competently shows, this
assumption appears to be inconsistent with the commonly assumed shape of
the money bin. However, suppose that the entire surface of the standard
cube is intended to equal one acre. Then, since an acre equals 43,560
square feet, each of the six faces of the standard cube must have an area
ot only 7,260 square feet. This seems to be exacley wnat tne mysterious
sketch was saying! Going on from here, we find that each ot the twelve
edges of the standard cube must be approximately 85.2 feet long.
Consequenttly, a cubic acre turns out to be about 618,593 cubic feet. Since
Scraoge's wealth occupies three cubic acres, this means that he has about
1,855,779 cubic feet of cash. Assuming, then, that his money has reached
the 100 foot mark on the depth gauge, we find that the square base of his
money bin is roughly 136 feet in width and length. This corresponds
perfectly with the usual cubical picture of the money bin, for it allows
the bin to rise 36 feet above the money level, which is roughy the amount
of empty space that one usually sees in drawings of the bin's interior.
I hope this clarifies things. Of course Scrooge, with the vast mathematical
abilities he has gained from constantly counting his wealth, knew it all
along. Now, can anybody explain how Scrooge's notes happened to get mailed
to me?
(Brian K. Schmidl Chelmsford, MA)
=========================================================
MAIL BIN: UNCLE SCROOGE #257
Dear Editor
As a follow-up to Flash Kellam's investigation into the projected size of
Scrooge's money bin, I have taken things a step further in order to
estimate the minimum net worth of his fortune.
Mr. Kellam arrived at a figure of 27,274,140 cubic feet for the size of the
money bin. Let us assume that Scrooge collected silver and gold coins in
equal amounts; this would imply that approximately 13,637,070 cubic feet of
the bin is occupied by each of the precious metals.
Now, silver has a density of 10.5 grams per cubic centimeter; gold has a
density of 19.3 grams per cubic centimeter. Since precious metals are
usually measured in troy ounces, we multiply by 0.0321507 ounces per gram
and 28,316.846 cubic centimeters per cubic foot to give densities of
9559.267 ounces per cubic foot for silver and 17,570,843 ounces per cubic
foot for gold. Multiplying these densities times the volumes above gives us
130,360,390,000 ounces of silver and 239,614,810,000 ounces af gold, in the
money bin.
At the time of this letter, silver was selling for approximately $4.00 an
ounce; gold was worth $400.00 an ounce. Scrooge's silver is thus worth
$521,441,560,000, and his gold would amount to something like
$95,845,924,000,000.00. So we conclude that in today's market his coins
alone are valued at over 96 trillion dollars. At the bottom of the bin, of
course, crushed under the immense weight of the metal above, lie the
fabulous greenbacks which make up the remainder of his umpticatillion,
fantasticatillion fortune.
(Doug Ftmpley Boulder, CO)
=========================================================
MAIL BIN: UNCLE SCROOGE #261
Dear Editor
In Uncle Scrooge #256, you printed a letter about the size ot Scrooge's
money bin. It gave a size of 136 feet square, 100 feet deep arid 36 feet
empty at the top. l'm afraid the calculations are somewhat off. Scrooge is
supposed to have 3 cubic acres of cash, and while acre is a measure of area
and not cubage in the usual sense, it is used in measuring volume. In
irrigation, water is measured by the acre-foot. One acre of area a foot
deep, 43,560 cubic feet is one acre-foot. So, l'd consider a cubic acre as
the square root of 43,560 = 208.71 feet on aside by the same in depth, that
works out to 9,091,408 cubic feet per cubic acre. Then multiply by 3 and
you get 27,274,224 cubic feet. Extract the cube root of this and you get
just a scratch over 301 feet.
As Scrooge has only 99 feet on the money gauge the 27,274,224 divided by 99
would yield an area of 275,497 square feet. Assuming it's a square
building, it'd be just a scratch under 525 feet along each side.
No matter how you measure it, it's a big pile of piastres.
(J.W. Burns - Brockville, Ontario Canada)
Dear Editor
Strictly speaking, unless Uncle Scrooge's world has six spatial dimensions,
the term "cubic acres" is meaningless. An acre is a measure of area,
equivalent to 43,560 square feet. A cubic acre would therefore measure
approximately 82,653,950.010.000 square feet. Scroge's money shoul be
measured in terms of volume - something that can expressed in terms of
cubic feet.
If you interpret "cubic acre" to mean a cube whose faces each span an acre,
then a cubic acre would be equivalent to approximately 9,091,421.781 squre
feet (or approximately 208.71 feet per edge). If the interior of the bin
were 100 feet high , and the bin had a square footprint, the square's sides
would each be approximately 522.248 feet long. It the bin's interior had a
square footprint that was 100 feet long on each side, the bin would have to
be approximately 2,727,427 feet high. For Scrooge to swim in the bin, the
dimensions would have to be larger.
(Ricky Chew - San Jose, CA)
Dear Editor
In response to whether Scrooge has six or nine cubic acres of cash . We
know that he has a 3 cubic acre petty cash bin, another 3 acre main bib
underneath, and there is very likely another 3 acre area for his gold
bullion. Therefore we can assume that the bin is about 9 cubic acres.
As for the value of the bullion, it's pretry high! One brick is 7" x 3 5/8"
x 1 3/4", and contains approximately 400 troy ounces of gold. If gold is
worth about 400 dollars per troy ounce, each brick is worth about 160,000
dollars. If one of Scrooge's cubic acres is 618,593 cubdc feet, and a gold
brick is about .026 cubic feet, therefore there are about 72,214,917 bricks
in storage. The total value of Scrooge's gold bricks is about
$11,554,386,560,000.
(Corey Ziemniak - Montgomery, AL)
===========================================================
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 13:27:15 +0100
Message-Id: <200003021227.NAA30563 at dioscuri.uio.no>
From: Nils Lid Hjort <nils at math.uio.no>
>I find it wonderful that Barks chose "three cubic acres"
>to describe the amount of money in Scrooge's bin. Since
>`acre' is a two-dimensional measure, of area, it would
>follow that the Ducks live in (m^2)^3-space, that is, in
>some six-dimensional space.
I immediately remembered some letters on some old Uncle Scroge about this
topic.
I found them and i scannennered for DCML. I hope could interest!
Maybe some of the writers are members?
Has anybody got Mr Keellam's letter in U$ #252 ? Please send it to me ... I
am being waitig to read it since 1991!!
=========================================================
MAIL BIN: UNCLE SCROOGE #256
Dear Editor
Mr. Kellam's letter in Uncle Scrooge #252 calls to our attention an
important mystery conceming the size of Uncle Scrooge's money bin: More
remarkable still, however, is the fact that Mr. Kellam's letter solves a
second mystery that has been troubling me for several months, while,
contrarywise, the second mystery appears to solve the first. Let me explain.
You see, a few months ago, when I received an Uncle Scroge comic book in
the mail, I hapeened to notice there was something extra enclosed w?thin
the comic book: It was a brittle, yellowed envelope which appeared to be
very old. Thinking that someone at the publishing house had accidentally
dropped an advertisement in with my subscrlption, I was about to throw it
away wh?n I noticed the letters S. McD. scribbled in pencil in one corner.
Then, as you may imagine, my curiosity was greatly aroused. I hastened to
open the envelope. Inside was a single sheet of paper containing the sketch
ot a cube. On examining the sketch more closely, I noticed that the six
sides of the cube had been carefully shaded in with cross-hatches. Beneath
the sketch, the following inscription appeared:
43,560 / 6 = 7,260
I pondered over the sketch for many hours, but to no avail; I could not
fathom its meaning. So matters countinued until I read Mr. Kellam's letter
today. Then, suddenly, the meaning of the old sketch became perfectly clear:
Mr. Kellam assumes that a cubic acre means the volume of a standard cube,
each side of which is one acre in area. As he competently shows, this
assumption appears to be inconsistent with the commonly assumed shape of
the money bin. However, suppose that the entire surface of the standard
cube is intended to equal one acre. Then, since an acre equals 43,560
square feet, each of the six faces of the standard cube must have an area
ot only 7,260 square feet. This seems to be exacley wnat tne mysterious
sketch was saying! Going on from here, we find that each ot the twelve
edges of the standard cube must be approximately 85.2 feet long.
Consequenttly, a cubic acre turns out to be about 618,593 cubic feet. Since
Scraoge's wealth occupies three cubic acres, this means that he has about
1,855,779 cubic feet of cash. Assuming, then, that his money has reached
the 100 foot mark on the depth gauge, we find that the square base of his
money bin is roughly 136 feet in width and length. This corresponds
perfectly with the usual cubical picture of the money bin, for it allows
the bin to rise 36 feet above the money level, which is roughy the amount
of empty space that one usually sees in drawings of the bin's interior.
I hope this clarifies things. Of course Scrooge, with the vast mathematical
abilities he has gained from constantly counting his wealth, knew it all
along. Now, can anybody explain how Scrooge's notes happened to get mailed
to me?
(Brian K. Schmidl Chelmsford, MA)
=========================================================
MAIL BIN: UNCLE SCROOGE #257
Dear Editor
As a follow-up to Flash Kellam's investigation into the projected size of
Scrooge's money bin, I have taken things a step further in order to
estimate the minimum net worth of his fortune.
Mr. Kellam arrived at a figure of 27,274,140 cubic feet for the size of the
money bin. Let us assume that Scrooge collected silver and gold coins in
equal amounts; this would imply that approximately 13,637,070 cubic feet of
the bin is occupied by each of the precious metals.
Now, silver has a density of 10.5 grams per cubic centimeter; gold has a
density of 19.3 grams per cubic centimeter. Since precious metals are
usually measured in troy ounces, we multiply by 0.0321507 ounces per gram
and 28,316.846 cubic centimeters per cubic foot to give densities of
9559.267 ounces per cubic foot for silver and 17,570,843 ounces per cubic
foot for gold. Multiplying these densities times the volumes above gives us
130,360,390,000 ounces of silver and 239,614,810,000 ounces af gold, in the
money bin.
At the time of this letter, silver was selling for approximately $4.00 an
ounce; gold was worth $400.00 an ounce. Scrooge's silver is thus worth
$521,441,560,000, and his gold would amount to something like
$95,845,924,000,000.00. So we conclude that in today's market his coins
alone are valued at over 96 trillion dollars. At the bottom of the bin, of
course, crushed under the immense weight of the metal above, lie the
fabulous greenbacks which make up the remainder of his umpticatillion,
fantasticatillion fortune.
(Doug Ftmpley Boulder, CO)
=========================================================
MAIL BIN: UNCLE SCROOGE #261
Dear Editor
In Uncle Scrooge #256, you printed a letter about the size ot Scrooge's
money bin. It gave a size of 136 feet square, 100 feet deep arid 36 feet
empty at the top. l'm afraid the calculations are somewhat off. Scrooge is
supposed to have 3 cubic acres of cash, and while acre is a measure of area
and not cubage in the usual sense, it is used in measuring volume. In
irrigation, water is measured by the acre-foot. One acre of area a foot
deep, 43,560 cubic feet is one acre-foot. So, l'd consider a cubic acre as
the square root of 43,560 = 208.71 feet on aside by the same in depth, that
works out to 9,091,408 cubic feet per cubic acre. Then multiply by 3 and
you get 27,274,224 cubic feet. Extract the cube root of this and you get
just a scratch over 301 feet.
As Scrooge has only 99 feet on the money gauge the 27,274,224 divided by 99
would yield an area of 275,497 square feet. Assuming it's a square
building, it'd be just a scratch under 525 feet along each side.
No matter how you measure it, it's a big pile of piastres.
(J.W. Burns - Brockville, Ontario Canada)
Dear Editor
Strictly speaking, unless Uncle Scrooge's world has six spatial dimensions,
the term "cubic acres" is meaningless. An acre is a measure of area,
equivalent to 43,560 square feet. A cubic acre would therefore measure
approximately 82,653,950.010.000 square feet. Scroge's money shoul be
measured in terms of volume - something that can expressed in terms of
cubic feet.
If you interpret "cubic acre" to mean a cube whose faces each span an acre,
then a cubic acre would be equivalent to approximately 9,091,421.781 squre
feet (or approximately 208.71 feet per edge). If the interior of the bin
were 100 feet high , and the bin had a square footprint, the square's sides
would each be approximately 522.248 feet long. It the bin's interior had a
square footprint that was 100 feet long on each side, the bin would have to
be approximately 2,727,427 feet high. For Scrooge to swim in the bin, the
dimensions would have to be larger.
(Ricky Chew - San Jose, CA)
Dear Editor
In response to whether Scrooge has six or nine cubic acres of cash . We
know that he has a 3 cubic acre petty cash bin, another 3 acre main bib
underneath, and there is very likely another 3 acre area for his gold
bullion. Therefore we can assume that the bin is about 9 cubic acres.
As for the value of the bullion, it's pretry high! One brick is 7" x 3 5/8"
x 1 3/4", and contains approximately 400 troy ounces of gold. If gold is
worth about 400 dollars per troy ounce, each brick is worth about 160,000
dollars. If one of Scrooge's cubic acres is 618,593 cubdc feet, and a gold
brick is about .026 cubic feet, therefore there are about 72,214,917 bricks
in storage. The total value of Scrooge's gold bricks is about
$11,554,386,560,000.
(Corey Ziemniak - Montgomery, AL)
===========================================================
Michael Naiman
CB Birthday
Message 33 -
2000-03-03 at 18:45:24
Time grows close to when I shall be sending Carl the birthday greetings
collected from the ML
Send them while you can.
Michael Naiman
collected from the ML
Send them while you can.
Michael Naiman
Fluks, H.W.
Joachim-stahl
Message 34 -
2000-03-03 at 23:44:09
How come we have so many Scrooges on this list? I mean, Scrooge's
Scandinavian name is Joachim or Joakim, and we have
- Joachim Stahl;
- Joakim Gunnarsson;
- Keno Don Rosa - where "Keno" is short for Gioacchino, the Italian form of
Joakim...
And then there's the origin of the world "dollar". This was taken (through
the Dutch "daalder") from German "Thaler", which is short for Joachimsthaler
(a coin from Joachimsthal, still used in Entenhausen)!
So a "dollar" could be regarded a "Scrooge's-dollar"...
Coincidence?
It also just occurred to me that Joachim Stahl is just a misspelling of
Joachimsthal...
Coincidence?
8-)
--Harry (not Joachim) Fluks
Scandinavian name is Joachim or Joakim, and we have
- Joachim Stahl;
- Joakim Gunnarsson;
- Keno Don Rosa - where "Keno" is short for Gioacchino, the Italian form of
Joakim...
And then there's the origin of the world "dollar". This was taken (through
the Dutch "daalder") from German "Thaler", which is short for Joachimsthaler
(a coin from Joachimsthal, still used in Entenhausen)!
So a "dollar" could be regarded a "Scrooge's-dollar"...
Coincidence?
It also just occurred to me that Joachim Stahl is just a misspelling of
Joachimsthal...
Coincidence?
8-)
--Harry (not Joachim) Fluks
Pietro Reynaud-Bersanino
Indians in comics, etc
Message 35 -
2000-03-04 at 10:02:13
In DCML digest, Vol 1 #100, you wrote:
>Message: 11
>From: sonia_dyer at hp.com
>Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 12:04:39 -0800
>Message-Id: <H0000dd40df8762d at MHS>
>Subject: Indians in comics, etc
> I don't remember EVER seeing any indians in comics in the
> USA except in Disney comics (Hiawatha, and the occasional indian
> tribe the ducks would meet in their adventures). Who's Yakari,
> and what's that about?
Yacari is a Belgian Comics by Derib about a young native american at the
beginning of last (1800, ... the next will start Jan 1st, 2001) century.
For the other answer here is a recent extract ...
============================================================
Date: 27 Feb 2000 10:54:32 -0000
From: ComicsOne at onelist.com
Reply-To: ComicsOne at onelist.com
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 17:44:08 -0500
From: "Robert V. Schmidt" <73472.324 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Natives in the (comics) news
TOM STRONG #3 presented a futuristic version of Mesoamerican culture, the
Aztech Empire. Led by ruler Moctecuzoma and computer intelligence
Quetzalcoatl-9, these other-dimensional invaders would've conquered the
Earth if not for Tom Strong's intervention. See the comic for a
speculative look at how Aztec iconography might have evolved with modern
technology.
NEW ETERNALS #1 added a few formerly unknown godlings to the mix. The
newcomers included Ceyote, a.k.a. Tomorrow Hawk, a.k.a. Thomas Hawk
(TOM-orrow Hawk...get it?), a Native American from the US Southwest. Good
thing, too, since the original Eternals were almost pure white European
types. Ceyote didn't do much in this story, but a token is better than
nothing.
In DAREDEVIL #9, the beginning of a multi-part adventure, Matt Murdock's
would-be assassin and potential girlfriend is Maya Lopez, whose father was
a Cheyenne nicknamed Crazy Horse. In DD #10 Maya pantomimed a Native
legend, but it's not clear how much her Plains ancestry will influence her.
X-FORCE #99-100 featured another appearance by Danielle Moonstar's worst
nightmare, the Demon Bear. Unfortunately, the Bear, and the story, had
almost no Native connection this time 'round. A waste of paper and of
Moonstar's character.
=========================================================
>Message: 11
>From: sonia_dyer at hp.com
>Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 12:04:39 -0800
>Message-Id: <H0000dd40df8762d at MHS>
>Subject: Indians in comics, etc
> I don't remember EVER seeing any indians in comics in the
> USA except in Disney comics (Hiawatha, and the occasional indian
> tribe the ducks would meet in their adventures). Who's Yakari,
> and what's that about?
Yacari is a Belgian Comics by Derib about a young native american at the
beginning of last (1800, ... the next will start Jan 1st, 2001) century.
For the other answer here is a recent extract ...
============================================================
Date: 27 Feb 2000 10:54:32 -0000
From: ComicsOne at onelist.com
Reply-To: ComicsOne at onelist.com
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 17:44:08 -0500
From: "Robert V. Schmidt" <73472.324 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Natives in the (comics) news
TOM STRONG #3 presented a futuristic version of Mesoamerican culture, the
Aztech Empire. Led by ruler Moctecuzoma and computer intelligence
Quetzalcoatl-9, these other-dimensional invaders would've conquered the
Earth if not for Tom Strong's intervention. See the comic for a
speculative look at how Aztec iconography might have evolved with modern
technology.
NEW ETERNALS #1 added a few formerly unknown godlings to the mix. The
newcomers included Ceyote, a.k.a. Tomorrow Hawk, a.k.a. Thomas Hawk
(TOM-orrow Hawk...get it?), a Native American from the US Southwest. Good
thing, too, since the original Eternals were almost pure white European
types. Ceyote didn't do much in this story, but a token is better than
nothing.
In DAREDEVIL #9, the beginning of a multi-part adventure, Matt Murdock's
would-be assassin and potential girlfriend is Maya Lopez, whose father was
a Cheyenne nicknamed Crazy Horse. In DD #10 Maya pantomimed a Native
legend, but it's not clear how much her Plains ancestry will influence her.
X-FORCE #99-100 featured another appearance by Danielle Moonstar's worst
nightmare, the Demon Bear. Unfortunately, the Bear, and the story, had
almost no Native connection this time 'round. A waste of paper and of
Moonstar's character.
=========================================================
Jorgenb
Donald Duck & Co # 9 - 2000, not quite yet
Message 36 -
2000-03-04 at 10:21:30
Sorry I didn't get time to send the review yesterday. I'll
send it later today.
J?rgen
send it later today.
J?rgen
Anders Christian Sivebaek
Hiawatha and Yakari
Message 37 -
2000-03-04 at 17:35:32
Hi
I think what Sonia did was to repeat what i said, before she answered.
There just was no indicator to this anywhere.
Anyway, you asked who Yakari is? He is the star of one of the few
album-series I have read. A little Indian who lives with his tribe (am
I allowed to use that word?!). I think the artist is french, but the
stories are supposed to take place in America I think.
Yakari is a bit older, and taller than Hiawatha, who's non-tallness is
a bit ridicolus to me.
He lives with his family, I think his father is chief (It's some time
since I read the whole series), and he has a very nice horse called
Thundercloud. He talks to it.
I hope it's not un-PC to claim that indians can and could talk to
animals. The thought is so beautiful, and very possible, as they are
nature-people and understand the living things around them. I guess a
white person is sent to a psychiatrist or directly to the closed
department if they claim such abbilities?
Well, the stories mostly are about Yakari in his home, and he goes on
trips, where he gets in dangourous situations, of which he saves
himself always. It's a series for children.
He often gets in contacts with all kinds of animals. Like bears, his
good friends the beavers, and once he met the white bison, who means
something very special to Indians, and maybe his tribe in particular.
There's no parodicing in the stories, the Indians are humans, who talk
danish in my case.
My opinoin about Hiawatha is not a big one, as I haven't read many
stories with him, only when I was smaller, and the reason I stopped
might have been the same as someone mentioned about Rabbit, the plots
were too alike...
A. C. Sivebaek
acsive at mail.mira.dk
I think what Sonia did was to repeat what i said, before she answered.
There just was no indicator to this anywhere.
Anyway, you asked who Yakari is? He is the star of one of the few
album-series I have read. A little Indian who lives with his tribe (am
I allowed to use that word?!). I think the artist is french, but the
stories are supposed to take place in America I think.
Yakari is a bit older, and taller than Hiawatha, who's non-tallness is
a bit ridicolus to me.
He lives with his family, I think his father is chief (It's some time
since I read the whole series), and he has a very nice horse called
Thundercloud. He talks to it.
I hope it's not un-PC to claim that indians can and could talk to
animals. The thought is so beautiful, and very possible, as they are
nature-people and understand the living things around them. I guess a
white person is sent to a psychiatrist or directly to the closed
department if they claim such abbilities?
Well, the stories mostly are about Yakari in his home, and he goes on
trips, where he gets in dangourous situations, of which he saves
himself always. It's a series for children.
He often gets in contacts with all kinds of animals. Like bears, his
good friends the beavers, and once he met the white bison, who means
something very special to Indians, and maybe his tribe in particular.
There's no parodicing in the stories, the Indians are humans, who talk
danish in my case.
My opinoin about Hiawatha is not a big one, as I haven't read many
stories with him, only when I was smaller, and the reason I stopped
might have been the same as someone mentioned about Rabbit, the plots
were too alike...
A. C. Sivebaek
acsive at mail.mira.dk
Anders Christian Sivebaek
Komix and AA&Co. (articles)
Message 38 -
2000-03-04 at 17:43:10
Thanks to Kriton for putting the translation of the articles about
Gladstone here.
It makes me think that the editors are very wise and analytic.
In the danish issue 9 there was a socalled article. Our articles aren't
so big, and theyusually are only one page. The article was about if
Donald can ever become rich.
It refers to the new story in 3 parts (the one that made my eyes get
wet!) and to 3 old barks-stories. The stories mentioned are WDC 124,
WDC 125 and WDC 144. And this is where some (danish?) editor made a
goof. A new kind of goof, one could at least say, earlier they forgot
to put references with the summaries of the old stories, and they once
forgot to write the issue number, but just AA (meaning our weekly).
This time they wrote WDC as i wrote it. As I haven't completely guessed
what the *duck*
the target group is, I presume that it's still for ten-your-olds
mainly. And where should they now what WDC is, means and that the
stories have appeared in certain danish issues?
As Don said when they made the last goof of 1999: They just can't win!
I hope this gets better in the future.
A. C. Sivebaek
acsive at mail.mira.dk
Gladstone here.
It makes me think that the editors are very wise and analytic.
In the danish issue 9 there was a socalled article. Our articles aren't
so big, and theyusually are only one page. The article was about if
Donald can ever become rich.
It refers to the new story in 3 parts (the one that made my eyes get
wet!) and to 3 old barks-stories. The stories mentioned are WDC 124,
WDC 125 and WDC 144. And this is where some (danish?) editor made a
goof. A new kind of goof, one could at least say, earlier they forgot
to put references with the summaries of the old stories, and they once
forgot to write the issue number, but just AA (meaning our weekly).
This time they wrote WDC as i wrote it. As I haven't completely guessed
what the *duck*
the target group is, I presume that it's still for ten-your-olds
mainly. And where should they now what WDC is, means and that the
stories have appeared in certain danish issues?
As Don said when they made the last goof of 1999: They just can't win!
I hope this gets better in the future.
A. C. Sivebaek
acsive at mail.mira.dk
Jorgenb
Donald Duck & Co # 9 - 2000
Message 39 -
2000-03-04 at 21:02:29
Donald Duck & Co # 9 - 2000
Egmont front cover, showing Donald as a pizza delivery man. He's
chased into a tree by an angry dog, and Donald is getting back at
the dog by giving it pieces of chili pepper from the pizza. The
picture is mostly matching the Dutch story H 9542 appearing in the
issue. This is rare, but not unique.
Story number one is about Huey, Louie and Dewey (D 99143, 12 pages),
written by Paul Halas, and drawn by Vicar.
There's a new boy at school, and he's making a hell for the other
kids, beating them up and threatening them. Donald tries to be
understanding, and suggests that he's surely had a tough life. He
predicts that his nephews in short time will have the boy as a good
friend.
The troubles continues, and the nephews decide to get back at him. The
experiment blows back at them, and they are chased into a swamp. Now
the boy switches to another mode, and rescues them. He explains
that he was treated badly at another school because he had problems
with math, and this time he had decided that if not he could do things
well, neither should anyone else. The nephews say they will help him
whenever he needs it.
Now, this is exactly the kind of story I feared that the
Carol & Pat McGreal story from # 7 (the one with the arrow heads)
would turn into. For a time it was quite entertaining, and then it
ends up with everyone being kind to each other. Of course this is what
we want to happen in reality, and often it works exactly that way, but
reading a short story like this about it, I find boring.
Story number two is an old one-pager (KF 10-05-52).
Story number three is the Dutch Donald Duck story (H 9542, 4 pages),
written by Remco Polman, and drawn by Hans van Oudenaarden.
Donald has started working as a pizza delivery man, driving around on
a small scooter. He hates the job, and wants to quit. His last customer
before he has decided to quit is Uncle Scrooge. He has a lot of trouble
getting the pizza into the house, and when he at last arrives, the pizza
is so destroyed that Scrooge won't pay full price for it. Before the
day ends, Donald has one more job to do. He must deliver the day's
earnings to the owner - Scrooge.
A lot of pages needed to illustrate one point...
Story number four is a one-page criminal mystery (D 98366) without
credits.
Story number five is about the Beagle Boys (D 98337, 8 pages), written
by Pat and Carol McGreal, and drawn by Nunez.
The Beagle Boys plans to steal the incomes from a musical. But there's
a problem. They realize that they will themselves be automatically
suspected. To get a secure alibi, they steal a purse from an old woman,
and are put in jail. And there's their alibi - a tunnel already dug,
at an earlier stay. They leave through it, steal the money, and then
try to get into the jail again. But now the problems start. In the
meantime, the jail has been totally secured by an expert. It's of course
to keep guests from getting out, but it also stops the Beagle Boys from
getting in. After some unsuccessfull tries, they give up, and report
themselves at the main gate. They will get there anyway, so why delay it.
Traditional Beagle Boys style. Not much to say about it really. The art
is unusually good for a Beagle Boys story, though.
Story number six is another old one-pager (KF 10-24-54).
Story number seven is a Mickey Mouse story (D 99004, 10 pages),
written by Pat and Carol McGreal, and drawn by Rodriques.
Mickey and Pluto are in the cold north, to see a friend of them in a
contest with dog sleighs. Pluto admires the dogs (looks like Greenlanders
on the shape, but have the drawings of Huskys). One of the other
contestors is not of the nice kind, and sabotages the sleigh of Mickey's
friend. He's hurt, and Mickey takes his place in the race. Pluto goes
with him as a stowaway on the sleigh. When discovered, they have gotten
to far, and he's told to run besides the sleigh.
After a while the sleighs are stopped by people from a landed helicopter.
A village in the area is isolated by an avalanche. The weather is too
bad to fly in medicines etc. to the people there, so Mickey and the bad
guy's sleigh are loaded with them. The bad guy takes a short route to
get there first - then he'll be the hero. Mickey stays in the secure
route. Because of the bad weather Pluto loses Mickey's sleigh out of
sight, and at the same time the crook loses all his dogs. Mickey reaches
the village, but has decided to leave at once, to look for Pluto. He
doesn't have to, since Pluto arrives soon after, together with the crook
and his sleigh. So Pluto becomes the hero.
An entertaing story with a lot of action. There is one thing that
puzzles me a bit, though. This situation with isolated villages who
desperately needs medicines etc. is a quite common concept of Disney
stories. Still, this is something that happens almost every winter
in Norway, but never do we hear about heroic attempts to reach them with
needed things. I guess experiencing what would be called a natural
catastrophe in other countries, six month every year, have made us
prepare for such events.
Then comes a one-page article about Donald and money - of the Erik H?rthe
kind. And there are references to the stories from which the illustrations
are taken. I also checked some earlier articles of this kind, and they
also had references. Maybe they are removed in Sweden and Denmark?
And now to the Donald Duck continuation story (D 99171, 36 pages),
written by Andreas Pihl, and drawn by Colomer.
The story is about ambitions. Scrooge has it, and it has made him what
he is. There are other people having it, but less of it, so they will
never reach Scrooge's level. Donald hasn't got it at all, and this Scrooge
despises. Gladstone Gander doesn't have it either, but then again, he
doesn't need it. Daisy has it to some extent, but limited to being
respected by her friends - and that is easier achieved by being seen
in the new car Gladstone has won, than besides the wagon from which
Donald is selling peanuts. Donald's nephews go through the story mostly
as observers, clearing up details.
Things are in balance, and everything works more or less to everybody's
liking. But then the balance is disturbed, because of Scrooge's ambitions.
He can with his enormous fortune control the economy around the world,
and he can fool less ambitious finance people to buy his stocks. To
make this possible, he also raises the price of peanuts. And that
destroys Donald's modest income. Suddenly Donald's ambitions are
awakened, and he puts into fruition a ploy to take over Scrooge's fortune.
It involves Gladstone's luck, and to get his cooperation, Donald agrees
to stay away from Daisy for a year. The result of this is that the next
day, Scrooge is broke, and Donald own his entire fortune.
And so ends part one.
In the beginning of part two, Scrooge is bailed out of prison by Donald's
nephews. They stay at their old house, refusing to live with Donald at
his new mansion. Scrooge is in a very bad shape.
At the same time, there's a big party at Donald's mansion. Everybody
who counts are there - among them is the city's mayor, who's entirely
in Donald's pocket now. Daisy comes in, but is rejected by Donald (he
remembers his deal with Gladstone). The only person at the mansion who's
sceptical to Donald's lifestyle is miss Quackfaster. She disturbs him
a couple of times with things that must be done. Donald doesn't care,
being totally oblivious to the reasons that made Scrooge earn all the
money. Suddenly the electricity disappear all over the city because of
Donald's irresponsibility, and everyone at the party leave him.
Now Donald is without friends, but he's still rich, and can do nothing
but relax in the garden if that's what he wants. And that is what he wants.
At the same time, Scrooge is giving up. There's nothing for him in this
world now. He leaves Donald's nephews, to live a life on the streets.
When hiding in the dark besides a garbage bin, he sees Daisy and
Gladstone passing by. He hears Gladstone telling Daisy how he helped
Donald take over Scrooge's fortune.
To illustrate his luck, Gladstone throws away a coin, which Scrooge
takes. The ambitions return, and he decides to earn back his fortune.
And so ends part two.
Donald still hasn't learned the responsibilities coming with the big
fortune, and will rather shoot plastic animals in his swimming pool,
than care about a big dam threatening to break apart. And just as little
does he care about Duckburg's sewage system.
At the same time Gladstone is getting bored by Daisy. Earlier he had
found it entertaing to contest with Donald about her, but now that she
spends all the time with him, the fun is gone.
The sewage system starts to fill houses with sewage, and when people
are leaving their houses, a flood wave rolls over the city because of
the broken dam.
Daisy and Gladstone splits apart, and Gladstone leaves her in a
gondola floating by the roof they are sitting on.
Donald is chased away by angry citizens.
Scrooge and the nephews fool the city's less ambitious finance people
to invest in a phony company, and Donald recklessly invest in it.
Soon after the entire fortune is back on Scrooge's hands, and Donald
gets back his old peanut wagon. Scrooge also lowers the peanut price a
bit - not to risk anything.
Things are not completely back to the normal, though, since Daisy is
still angry at Donald... Er, oh! They _are_ back to normal, then.
And so ends the story.
A rare situation has happened: I hardly know what to say. Andreas Pihl
has done a remarkable job on this story. There are no cheap gags, and
no space used on irrelevant details, just to fill up space. From
beginning to end everything is part of, and just as important to, the
story. You just have to read it to understand. And never in a Duck story
have I seen writer and artist work so well together in playing on the
emotions of the reader. And in this story the art is indeed part of it.
Often the art is just an illustration of what's going on in the story,
but not in this case. Almost no pages follows the traditional pattern
of four tiers and eight pictures, instead the art is on every single
page made to fit perfectly to the story (untraditional layout in itself
might not be good, though; I hated that IT-Duckburg story in # 6). And
apart from the layout of the pages, Colomer has done a wonderful job.
This perfect match of the art to the story is something I wouldn't have
thought could be possible without the artist writing the story himself.
And all the references to Barks stories come as a good bonus.
I lack words to describe it further. I hope to see more stories by Pihl.
And as I've said before, Colomer is the one of the regular Egmont Duck
artists who impresses me most these days.
Story number nine is an old one-pager (KF 11-23-41).
J?rgen
Egmont front cover, showing Donald as a pizza delivery man. He's
chased into a tree by an angry dog, and Donald is getting back at
the dog by giving it pieces of chili pepper from the pizza. The
picture is mostly matching the Dutch story H 9542 appearing in the
issue. This is rare, but not unique.
Story number one is about Huey, Louie and Dewey (D 99143, 12 pages),
written by Paul Halas, and drawn by Vicar.
There's a new boy at school, and he's making a hell for the other
kids, beating them up and threatening them. Donald tries to be
understanding, and suggests that he's surely had a tough life. He
predicts that his nephews in short time will have the boy as a good
friend.
The troubles continues, and the nephews decide to get back at him. The
experiment blows back at them, and they are chased into a swamp. Now
the boy switches to another mode, and rescues them. He explains
that he was treated badly at another school because he had problems
with math, and this time he had decided that if not he could do things
well, neither should anyone else. The nephews say they will help him
whenever he needs it.
Now, this is exactly the kind of story I feared that the
Carol & Pat McGreal story from # 7 (the one with the arrow heads)
would turn into. For a time it was quite entertaining, and then it
ends up with everyone being kind to each other. Of course this is what
we want to happen in reality, and often it works exactly that way, but
reading a short story like this about it, I find boring.
Story number two is an old one-pager (KF 10-05-52).
Story number three is the Dutch Donald Duck story (H 9542, 4 pages),
written by Remco Polman, and drawn by Hans van Oudenaarden.
Donald has started working as a pizza delivery man, driving around on
a small scooter. He hates the job, and wants to quit. His last customer
before he has decided to quit is Uncle Scrooge. He has a lot of trouble
getting the pizza into the house, and when he at last arrives, the pizza
is so destroyed that Scrooge won't pay full price for it. Before the
day ends, Donald has one more job to do. He must deliver the day's
earnings to the owner - Scrooge.
A lot of pages needed to illustrate one point...
Story number four is a one-page criminal mystery (D 98366) without
credits.
Story number five is about the Beagle Boys (D 98337, 8 pages), written
by Pat and Carol McGreal, and drawn by Nunez.
The Beagle Boys plans to steal the incomes from a musical. But there's
a problem. They realize that they will themselves be automatically
suspected. To get a secure alibi, they steal a purse from an old woman,
and are put in jail. And there's their alibi - a tunnel already dug,
at an earlier stay. They leave through it, steal the money, and then
try to get into the jail again. But now the problems start. In the
meantime, the jail has been totally secured by an expert. It's of course
to keep guests from getting out, but it also stops the Beagle Boys from
getting in. After some unsuccessfull tries, they give up, and report
themselves at the main gate. They will get there anyway, so why delay it.
Traditional Beagle Boys style. Not much to say about it really. The art
is unusually good for a Beagle Boys story, though.
Story number six is another old one-pager (KF 10-24-54).
Story number seven is a Mickey Mouse story (D 99004, 10 pages),
written by Pat and Carol McGreal, and drawn by Rodriques.
Mickey and Pluto are in the cold north, to see a friend of them in a
contest with dog sleighs. Pluto admires the dogs (looks like Greenlanders
on the shape, but have the drawings of Huskys). One of the other
contestors is not of the nice kind, and sabotages the sleigh of Mickey's
friend. He's hurt, and Mickey takes his place in the race. Pluto goes
with him as a stowaway on the sleigh. When discovered, they have gotten
to far, and he's told to run besides the sleigh.
After a while the sleighs are stopped by people from a landed helicopter.
A village in the area is isolated by an avalanche. The weather is too
bad to fly in medicines etc. to the people there, so Mickey and the bad
guy's sleigh are loaded with them. The bad guy takes a short route to
get there first - then he'll be the hero. Mickey stays in the secure
route. Because of the bad weather Pluto loses Mickey's sleigh out of
sight, and at the same time the crook loses all his dogs. Mickey reaches
the village, but has decided to leave at once, to look for Pluto. He
doesn't have to, since Pluto arrives soon after, together with the crook
and his sleigh. So Pluto becomes the hero.
An entertaing story with a lot of action. There is one thing that
puzzles me a bit, though. This situation with isolated villages who
desperately needs medicines etc. is a quite common concept of Disney
stories. Still, this is something that happens almost every winter
in Norway, but never do we hear about heroic attempts to reach them with
needed things. I guess experiencing what would be called a natural
catastrophe in other countries, six month every year, have made us
prepare for such events.
Then comes a one-page article about Donald and money - of the Erik H?rthe
kind. And there are references to the stories from which the illustrations
are taken. I also checked some earlier articles of this kind, and they
also had references. Maybe they are removed in Sweden and Denmark?
And now to the Donald Duck continuation story (D 99171, 36 pages),
written by Andreas Pihl, and drawn by Colomer.
The story is about ambitions. Scrooge has it, and it has made him what
he is. There are other people having it, but less of it, so they will
never reach Scrooge's level. Donald hasn't got it at all, and this Scrooge
despises. Gladstone Gander doesn't have it either, but then again, he
doesn't need it. Daisy has it to some extent, but limited to being
respected by her friends - and that is easier achieved by being seen
in the new car Gladstone has won, than besides the wagon from which
Donald is selling peanuts. Donald's nephews go through the story mostly
as observers, clearing up details.
Things are in balance, and everything works more or less to everybody's
liking. But then the balance is disturbed, because of Scrooge's ambitions.
He can with his enormous fortune control the economy around the world,
and he can fool less ambitious finance people to buy his stocks. To
make this possible, he also raises the price of peanuts. And that
destroys Donald's modest income. Suddenly Donald's ambitions are
awakened, and he puts into fruition a ploy to take over Scrooge's fortune.
It involves Gladstone's luck, and to get his cooperation, Donald agrees
to stay away from Daisy for a year. The result of this is that the next
day, Scrooge is broke, and Donald own his entire fortune.
And so ends part one.
In the beginning of part two, Scrooge is bailed out of prison by Donald's
nephews. They stay at their old house, refusing to live with Donald at
his new mansion. Scrooge is in a very bad shape.
At the same time, there's a big party at Donald's mansion. Everybody
who counts are there - among them is the city's mayor, who's entirely
in Donald's pocket now. Daisy comes in, but is rejected by Donald (he
remembers his deal with Gladstone). The only person at the mansion who's
sceptical to Donald's lifestyle is miss Quackfaster. She disturbs him
a couple of times with things that must be done. Donald doesn't care,
being totally oblivious to the reasons that made Scrooge earn all the
money. Suddenly the electricity disappear all over the city because of
Donald's irresponsibility, and everyone at the party leave him.
Now Donald is without friends, but he's still rich, and can do nothing
but relax in the garden if that's what he wants. And that is what he wants.
At the same time, Scrooge is giving up. There's nothing for him in this
world now. He leaves Donald's nephews, to live a life on the streets.
When hiding in the dark besides a garbage bin, he sees Daisy and
Gladstone passing by. He hears Gladstone telling Daisy how he helped
Donald take over Scrooge's fortune.
To illustrate his luck, Gladstone throws away a coin, which Scrooge
takes. The ambitions return, and he decides to earn back his fortune.
And so ends part two.
Donald still hasn't learned the responsibilities coming with the big
fortune, and will rather shoot plastic animals in his swimming pool,
than care about a big dam threatening to break apart. And just as little
does he care about Duckburg's sewage system.
At the same time Gladstone is getting bored by Daisy. Earlier he had
found it entertaing to contest with Donald about her, but now that she
spends all the time with him, the fun is gone.
The sewage system starts to fill houses with sewage, and when people
are leaving their houses, a flood wave rolls over the city because of
the broken dam.
Daisy and Gladstone splits apart, and Gladstone leaves her in a
gondola floating by the roof they are sitting on.
Donald is chased away by angry citizens.
Scrooge and the nephews fool the city's less ambitious finance people
to invest in a phony company, and Donald recklessly invest in it.
Soon after the entire fortune is back on Scrooge's hands, and Donald
gets back his old peanut wagon. Scrooge also lowers the peanut price a
bit - not to risk anything.
Things are not completely back to the normal, though, since Daisy is
still angry at Donald... Er, oh! They _are_ back to normal, then.
And so ends the story.
A rare situation has happened: I hardly know what to say. Andreas Pihl
has done a remarkable job on this story. There are no cheap gags, and
no space used on irrelevant details, just to fill up space. From
beginning to end everything is part of, and just as important to, the
story. You just have to read it to understand. And never in a Duck story
have I seen writer and artist work so well together in playing on the
emotions of the reader. And in this story the art is indeed part of it.
Often the art is just an illustration of what's going on in the story,
but not in this case. Almost no pages follows the traditional pattern
of four tiers and eight pictures, instead the art is on every single
page made to fit perfectly to the story (untraditional layout in itself
might not be good, though; I hated that IT-Duckburg story in # 6). And
apart from the layout of the pages, Colomer has done a wonderful job.
This perfect match of the art to the story is something I wouldn't have
thought could be possible without the artist writing the story himself.
And all the references to Barks stories come as a good bonus.
I lack words to describe it further. I hope to see more stories by Pihl.
And as I've said before, Colomer is the one of the regular Egmont Duck
artists who impresses me most these days.
Story number nine is an old one-pager (KF 11-23-41).
J?rgen
Alípio D'Oliveira Coelho
Brer Rabbit - again...
Message 40 -
2000-03-04 at 22:17:24
> From: "Arie Fachrisal" <cien2 at cbn.net.id>
> Subject: Brer
> Hi all,
> So the dialogues were written in southern dialects which may offense
> the
> blacks. One question, why did the writer write in that dialect then?
> If
> he/she's some kind of racist, i think he/she wouldn't include the
> dialect.
> Maybe IMO the writer was living in the southern which he/she oneself
> used
> spoke in that dialect too???
>
> From: sonia_dyer at hp.com
> Subject: Brer Rabbit
> The characters are mimicking black people's speech and behavior -
>
> which makes them seen as "black people" (although being rabbits
> etc.).
> Is this in itself offending?
>
> Hi Jorgen-
> Similarly, in the original Uncle Remus/Brer Rabbit stories,
> the rabbit was a very very
> clever and inventive fellow.
> Sonia
> From: bror.hellman at partena.se
>
> Well, it's written in southern dialect because Bre'r Rabbit and the
> other folks are what usually is known as "southern hicks" or farmer/
> country folks. It's an old clich?. Even Goofy speaks similarily in
> films.
> It's used to depict uneducated, unsophisticated country people,
> I don't think anyone could think that Bre'r Bear is ridiculing
> "black" people.
>
> 2) Bre'r Rabbit, Bre'r Bear and Bre'r Fox originally comes from
> the feature film "Song of the South", which in it's turn is based
> on a collection of folktales, etc. called "Uncle Remus Tales".
> Well, the narrator in this movie is an old black man. Depicted in
> the fashion of the time, which today is much more controversial,
> and is - in my opinion - very stereotypical.
> Now, I live in Sweden, so I might have got some facts wrong,
> but this is how I understand it.
>
Uncle Remus' stories are written by Joel Chandler Harris. They are tales
to preserve the slave culture. UncleRemus was a old, black, CLEVER slave
and some stories even appeared on medical literature. This is the
introduction of a special article published on The American Journal of
Medicine:"UNCLE REMUS AND THE CASCADE EFFECT IN CLINICAL MEDICINE
Brer Rabbit Kicks the Tar-Baby"
"When Joel Chandler Harris published his Uncle Remus stories more
than a century ago, his major purpose was the preservation of a part of
the unique antebellum plantation slave culture, which he feared would
otherwise soon be forgotten. To accomplish this, he invented the
character of the wise and kindly slave-philosopher Uncle Remus. As much
as he was concerned about the accurate portrayal of the details of the
folklore, the allegoric interpretations of the legends were of little
concern to Harris (he was gladly willing to defer all such
interpretations to "the scientists"). However, the Uncle Remus stories
are much like Aesop's fables, in that each can be considered a parable
with a fairly obvious message."
(K. Patrick Ober, M.D. - The American Journal of Medicine - May 1987,vol
82, page 1009-13)
Anders:
| What is political correctness?
It is a plague! A plague which we should fight to keep away from
Scandinavia and other more or less unaffected areas.
J?rgen
That's true. Congratulations!
Brer Alipio
> Subject: Brer
> Hi all,
> So the dialogues were written in southern dialects which may offense
> the
> blacks. One question, why did the writer write in that dialect then?
> If
> he/she's some kind of racist, i think he/she wouldn't include the
> dialect.
> Maybe IMO the writer was living in the southern which he/she oneself
> used
> spoke in that dialect too???
>
> From: sonia_dyer at hp.com
> Subject: Brer Rabbit
> The characters are mimicking black people's speech and behavior -
>
> which makes them seen as "black people" (although being rabbits
> etc.).
> Is this in itself offending?
>
> Hi Jorgen-
> Similarly, in the original Uncle Remus/Brer Rabbit stories,
> the rabbit was a very very
> clever and inventive fellow.
> Sonia
> From: bror.hellman at partena.se
>
> Well, it's written in southern dialect because Bre'r Rabbit and the
> other folks are what usually is known as "southern hicks" or farmer/
> country folks. It's an old clich?. Even Goofy speaks similarily in
> films.
> It's used to depict uneducated, unsophisticated country people,
> I don't think anyone could think that Bre'r Bear is ridiculing
> "black" people.
>
> 2) Bre'r Rabbit, Bre'r Bear and Bre'r Fox originally comes from
> the feature film "Song of the South", which in it's turn is based
> on a collection of folktales, etc. called "Uncle Remus Tales".
> Well, the narrator in this movie is an old black man. Depicted in
> the fashion of the time, which today is much more controversial,
> and is - in my opinion - very stereotypical.
> Now, I live in Sweden, so I might have got some facts wrong,
> but this is how I understand it.
>
Uncle Remus' stories are written by Joel Chandler Harris. They are tales
to preserve the slave culture. UncleRemus was a old, black, CLEVER slave
and some stories even appeared on medical literature. This is the
introduction of a special article published on The American Journal of
Medicine:"UNCLE REMUS AND THE CASCADE EFFECT IN CLINICAL MEDICINE
Brer Rabbit Kicks the Tar-Baby"
"When Joel Chandler Harris published his Uncle Remus stories more
than a century ago, his major purpose was the preservation of a part of
the unique antebellum plantation slave culture, which he feared would
otherwise soon be forgotten. To accomplish this, he invented the
character of the wise and kindly slave-philosopher Uncle Remus. As much
as he was concerned about the accurate portrayal of the details of the
folklore, the allegoric interpretations of the legends were of little
concern to Harris (he was gladly willing to defer all such
interpretations to "the scientists"). However, the Uncle Remus stories
are much like Aesop's fables, in that each can be considered a parable
with a fairly obvious message."
(K. Patrick Ober, M.D. - The American Journal of Medicine - May 1987,vol
82, page 1009-13)
Anders:
| What is political correctness?
It is a plague! A plague which we should fight to keep away from
Scandinavia and other more or less unaffected areas.
J?rgen
That's true. Congratulations!
Brer Alipio
Michal Rolink
A new user
Message 41 -
2000-03-05 at 17:50:02
hello everybody,
i am a new user to this mailing list. i am very much interested in disney
comics. i would appriciate any information about this list.
by the way my name is miki and i am from israel - nice to meet ya all.
thanks heaps, me.
i am a new user to this mailing list. i am very much interested in disney
comics. i would appriciate any information about this list.
by the way my name is miki and i am from israel - nice to meet ya all.
thanks heaps, me.
RMorris306
Uncle Remus, Indians, Ducks et al
Message 42 -
2000-03-05 at 18:22:27
A few comics on recent digests:
Al Coelho is quite right about Uncle Remus and Br'er Rabbit. Many of the
tales have roots in Africa (where stories about trickster heroes like Anansi
the spider and the hare whose names include Wakaima and Sungura are told),
but were adapted to the slaves' new home and status. Joel Chandler Harris did
the same thing for those stories that the Brothers Grimm did for the folk and
fairy tales of Germany: he didn't write the stories, but he did preserve for
posterity the tales from an oral tradition that was in danger of extinction
in an era of increasing literacy. (In a truly hideous attempt to maintain
control, some pre-Civil War Southern states actually made it a crime to teach
slaves to read or write, thinking that a literate population would be harder
to enslave.) Harris's dialect was a sincere attempt to capture the speech
patterns of the slaves, which he thought added to the atmosphere. And it
probably did. Many respected writers of the time, like Charles Dickens and
Mark Twain, did the same with their characters...except that Dickens' dialect
characters, being mostly lower-class white people (Cockneys and the like),
weren't as likely to get the same sort of accusations of racism.
There have actually been quite a few Indians in American comics. Many,
like Disney's Hiawatha (and later Pocohontas, and even the Indians in PETER
PAN) originated in other media. The Lone Ranger, for instance, originated on
radio, but went on to appear in television, movies, and of course comics, and
in all those media he was accompanied by his faithful Indian companion,
Tonto. Indeed, Tonto not only appeared in the Lone Ranger's comic book from
Dell/Western, but also had one of his own. (Then again, so did Silver...the
Lone Ranger's horse.) And the comics also gave Tonto probably his most famous
line, from a MAD magazine parody ("TV Scenes We'd Like to See") scripted by
long-time DC Comics editor E. Nelson Bridwell:
(The Lone Ranger and Tonto are surrounded by hostile Indians.)
LONE RANGER: Uh-oh! We're in for it now!
TONTO: What do you mean "we," paleface?
The line has been quoted and requoted (usually in recent years with
"paleface" replaced by the more PC "white man") endlessly in similar
real-life situations.
There've been a lot more Indian heroes in comics. DC Comics alone has
featured Pow-Wow Smith (a Sioux lawman who became sheriff of a Western town,
and starred for well over a decade in DETECTIVE COMICS and ALL-STAR WESTERN),
Strong Bow (a Native American archer), Super-Chief (a rather strange Gardner
Fox/Carmine Infantino creation who wore a buffalo head mask), and Arak (a
10th-century Indian brought to the Old World by Viking explorers, who starred
in a memorably fantasy series by Roy Thomas). There were also Firehair and
Scalphunter, both white men raised by Indians who dressed in Native American
style. Several other characters, including DC's Tomahawk and Jonah Hex and
Harvey Comics' Clay Duncan (the foreman of Simon & Kirby's BOYS' RANCH in the
early '50's, and arguably the true hero of the series) were also white men
raised and trained by Indians. Indeed, Tomahawk eventually married a Native
American woman, and his son Hawk, who was therefore half-Indian, took over as
the star of the series. Robert Kanigher's war titles featured a number of
ethnic minorities, including an Indian World War II pilot named Johnny Cloud.
The one DC super-hero I can think of who was a Native American was
Dawnstar of the Legion of Super-Heroes, a series set in the 30th century. She
was a bit of a stereotype (her power consisted of superhuman tracking skill),
but she wasn't that badly handled as a general rule.
Marvel Comics seemed to have fewer non-super feature characters (one
exception being another Gardner Fox creation: a Western hero named Red Wolf),
but it had a few more Indian super-heroes...Danielle Moonstar (Shaman) of the
New Mutants has been mentioned, but there was also Thunderbird of the New
X-Men. He was rather regrettably killed off early in the run, but his brother
Warbird, who had the same mutant powers, later appeared.
On another note, I see that Emil Eagle, once cited by Don Rosa as one of
his least favorite villains (because of his species, not usually found in
Disney funny-animal comics) is the villain of the current storyline in the
MICKEY MOUSE newspaper strip. Which is interesting in the light of supposed
Disney policy about not mixing-and-matching villains (wasn't it once said
that they didn't want to use the Phantom Blot in a Duck story, or the Beagle
Boys in a Mickey Mouse story?), but Emil, a Gyro Gearloose villain who's
hitherto appeared exclusively in Gyro and Duck stories, would seem to be a
definite change...so maybe Mickey COULD go up against the Beagle Boys or
Magica deSpell one day? (Considering that Carl Barks himself did several Duck
stories with Mickey's arch-foe Black Pete as the villain, it seems only fair.)
Finally, Don Rosa himself occasionally seems to have veered from his
stated policy of making all his characters ducks, dogs, or occasionally pigs.
I was recently rereading his delightful story "Oolated Luck," and who do we
see as supporting characters but the Phishkisser Brothers, who, as one might
guess from the names, are literal fish-faces! Not that I'm complaining, mind
you, but I've never minded the variety of the faces in the Disney comics,
either. (And, Don, I have to know...is there really such a thing as oolated
squiggs? I've never heard of them, and always assumed not...but it'd be just
like you to toss in something real, especially if it had an outrageous name
like that. Cf: Monkey's Eyebrow, Kentucky...)
Take care,
Rich Morrissey
Al Coelho is quite right about Uncle Remus and Br'er Rabbit. Many of the
tales have roots in Africa (where stories about trickster heroes like Anansi
the spider and the hare whose names include Wakaima and Sungura are told),
but were adapted to the slaves' new home and status. Joel Chandler Harris did
the same thing for those stories that the Brothers Grimm did for the folk and
fairy tales of Germany: he didn't write the stories, but he did preserve for
posterity the tales from an oral tradition that was in danger of extinction
in an era of increasing literacy. (In a truly hideous attempt to maintain
control, some pre-Civil War Southern states actually made it a crime to teach
slaves to read or write, thinking that a literate population would be harder
to enslave.) Harris's dialect was a sincere attempt to capture the speech
patterns of the slaves, which he thought added to the atmosphere. And it
probably did. Many respected writers of the time, like Charles Dickens and
Mark Twain, did the same with their characters...except that Dickens' dialect
characters, being mostly lower-class white people (Cockneys and the like),
weren't as likely to get the same sort of accusations of racism.
There have actually been quite a few Indians in American comics. Many,
like Disney's Hiawatha (and later Pocohontas, and even the Indians in PETER
PAN) originated in other media. The Lone Ranger, for instance, originated on
radio, but went on to appear in television, movies, and of course comics, and
in all those media he was accompanied by his faithful Indian companion,
Tonto. Indeed, Tonto not only appeared in the Lone Ranger's comic book from
Dell/Western, but also had one of his own. (Then again, so did Silver...the
Lone Ranger's horse.) And the comics also gave Tonto probably his most famous
line, from a MAD magazine parody ("TV Scenes We'd Like to See") scripted by
long-time DC Comics editor E. Nelson Bridwell:
(The Lone Ranger and Tonto are surrounded by hostile Indians.)
LONE RANGER: Uh-oh! We're in for it now!
TONTO: What do you mean "we," paleface?
The line has been quoted and requoted (usually in recent years with
"paleface" replaced by the more PC "white man") endlessly in similar
real-life situations.
There've been a lot more Indian heroes in comics. DC Comics alone has
featured Pow-Wow Smith (a Sioux lawman who became sheriff of a Western town,
and starred for well over a decade in DETECTIVE COMICS and ALL-STAR WESTERN),
Strong Bow (a Native American archer), Super-Chief (a rather strange Gardner
Fox/Carmine Infantino creation who wore a buffalo head mask), and Arak (a
10th-century Indian brought to the Old World by Viking explorers, who starred
in a memorably fantasy series by Roy Thomas). There were also Firehair and
Scalphunter, both white men raised by Indians who dressed in Native American
style. Several other characters, including DC's Tomahawk and Jonah Hex and
Harvey Comics' Clay Duncan (the foreman of Simon & Kirby's BOYS' RANCH in the
early '50's, and arguably the true hero of the series) were also white men
raised and trained by Indians. Indeed, Tomahawk eventually married a Native
American woman, and his son Hawk, who was therefore half-Indian, took over as
the star of the series. Robert Kanigher's war titles featured a number of
ethnic minorities, including an Indian World War II pilot named Johnny Cloud.
The one DC super-hero I can think of who was a Native American was
Dawnstar of the Legion of Super-Heroes, a series set in the 30th century. She
was a bit of a stereotype (her power consisted of superhuman tracking skill),
but she wasn't that badly handled as a general rule.
Marvel Comics seemed to have fewer non-super feature characters (one
exception being another Gardner Fox creation: a Western hero named Red Wolf),
but it had a few more Indian super-heroes...Danielle Moonstar (Shaman) of the
New Mutants has been mentioned, but there was also Thunderbird of the New
X-Men. He was rather regrettably killed off early in the run, but his brother
Warbird, who had the same mutant powers, later appeared.
On another note, I see that Emil Eagle, once cited by Don Rosa as one of
his least favorite villains (because of his species, not usually found in
Disney funny-animal comics) is the villain of the current storyline in the
MICKEY MOUSE newspaper strip. Which is interesting in the light of supposed
Disney policy about not mixing-and-matching villains (wasn't it once said
that they didn't want to use the Phantom Blot in a Duck story, or the Beagle
Boys in a Mickey Mouse story?), but Emil, a Gyro Gearloose villain who's
hitherto appeared exclusively in Gyro and Duck stories, would seem to be a
definite change...so maybe Mickey COULD go up against the Beagle Boys or
Magica deSpell one day? (Considering that Carl Barks himself did several Duck
stories with Mickey's arch-foe Black Pete as the villain, it seems only fair.)
Finally, Don Rosa himself occasionally seems to have veered from his
stated policy of making all his characters ducks, dogs, or occasionally pigs.
I was recently rereading his delightful story "Oolated Luck," and who do we
see as supporting characters but the Phishkisser Brothers, who, as one might
guess from the names, are literal fish-faces! Not that I'm complaining, mind
you, but I've never minded the variety of the faces in the Disney comics,
either. (And, Don, I have to know...is there really such a thing as oolated
squiggs? I've never heard of them, and always assumed not...but it'd be just
like you to toss in something real, especially if it had an outrageous name
like that. Cf: Monkey's Eyebrow, Kentucky...)
Take care,
Rich Morrissey
Søren Krarup Olesen
Scamp questionnaire
Message 43 -
2000-03-05 at 21:20:17
Hi folks.
I would like to thank for the contributions to the Scamp questionnaire
at http://raptus.dk/scamp but we still need the names for many of
the characters in Manuel Gonzales' Scamp univers.
When I was young(er) many of these beautiful Scamp one-pagers were
assembled in books here in Denmark, providing a great alternative to the
usual bedtime stories. The only problem is, that those compilations
were in Danish, and what we are looking for here are the original
English/American names of the subordinare--yet important--characters.
Ole & Søren
I would like to thank for the contributions to the Scamp questionnaire
at http://raptus.dk/scamp but we still need the names for many of
the characters in Manuel Gonzales' Scamp univers.
When I was young(er) many of these beautiful Scamp one-pagers were
assembled in books here in Denmark, providing a great alternative to the
usual bedtime stories. The only problem is, that those compilations
were in Danish, and what we are looking for here are the original
English/American names of the subordinare--yet important--characters.
Ole & Søren
HorizonHse
DCML digest, Vol 1 #103 - 6 msgs
Message 44 -
2000-03-05 at 21:52:39
i don't think people object to the song of the south cartoons so much as the
presentation of the slaves in the feature film from which the cartoons come.
They are shown as happy, contented "workers" -- not as slaves -- who sing on
their way to the fields and on there way back to their "cabins." Their only
concerns are the welfare of their masters, who in turn understand their
"responsibilities" to care for these "simple folk.". This is not stereotyped.
It is completely false.
I think some of us are confusing what is politically correct with what is
right. Slavery was politically correct in the South until the 13th amendment.
It was not right, however.
presentation of the slaves in the feature film from which the cartoons come.
They are shown as happy, contented "workers" -- not as slaves -- who sing on
their way to the fields and on there way back to their "cabins." Their only
concerns are the welfare of their masters, who in turn understand their
"responsibilities" to care for these "simple folk.". This is not stereotyped.
It is completely false.
I think some of us are confusing what is politically correct with what is
right. Slavery was politically correct in the South until the 13th amendment.
It was not right, however.
Pietro Reynaud-Bersanino
My whife talk to animals!
Message 45 -
2000-03-06 at 07:53:34
In DCML digest, Vol 1 #103, "Anders Christian Sivebaek"
<acsive at mail.mira.dk> wrote:
>I hope it's not un-PC to claim that indians can and could talk to
>animals. The thought is so beautiful, and very possible, as they are
>nature-people and understand the living things around them. I guess a
>white person is sent to a psychiatrist or directly to the closed
>department if they claim such abbilities?
My whife is pink, (or white if you prefer !), and she talks to animals. Of
course she cannot make logical talks, because animals are not logical, but
she (like many others people of every skin colours) can comunicate
sentiment in a different way of me and other common people! In my opinion
it is the sound of her voice, but that is not enough ... she can understand
sentiments that animals comunicate to her. She do not claim such
abbilities, because before i told her she did not realized her abbility, it
was natural to her.
I think we cannot forgive that human being are culture but also nature. Of
course for a western culture human person is difficult to remember that
he/she is nature, but this awareness is necessary to permit our world to go
on. I think this is one of the messages Carl Barks send to the world with
many of his stories.
>My opinoin about Hiawatha is not a big one, as I haven't read many
>stories with him, only when I was smaller, and the reason I stopped
>might have been the same as someone mentioned about Rabbit, the plots
>were too alike...
In my opinion the best in Yakari is the design of the pages!
<acsive at mail.mira.dk> wrote:
>I hope it's not un-PC to claim that indians can and could talk to
>animals. The thought is so beautiful, and very possible, as they are
>nature-people and understand the living things around them. I guess a
>white person is sent to a psychiatrist or directly to the closed
>department if they claim such abbilities?
My whife is pink, (or white if you prefer !), and she talks to animals. Of
course she cannot make logical talks, because animals are not logical, but
she (like many others people of every skin colours) can comunicate
sentiment in a different way of me and other common people! In my opinion
it is the sound of her voice, but that is not enough ... she can understand
sentiments that animals comunicate to her. She do not claim such
abbilities, because before i told her she did not realized her abbility, it
was natural to her.
I think we cannot forgive that human being are culture but also nature. Of
course for a western culture human person is difficult to remember that
he/she is nature, but this awareness is necessary to permit our world to go
on. I think this is one of the messages Carl Barks send to the world with
many of his stories.
>My opinoin about Hiawatha is not a big one, as I haven't read many
>stories with him, only when I was smaller, and the reason I stopped
>might have been the same as someone mentioned about Rabbit, the plots
>were too alike...
In my opinion the best in Yakari is the design of the pages!