Daniel van Eijmeren wrote:
>>>http://www.geocities.com/gearlost/heymans.html
>>
>
> [...]
>
>
>>I must agree with you, Simo. Latest Mau Heyman should have never seen
>>print in my humble opinion (the story in right). You can see there is
>>no love involved in his work. Even if the script is good, this kind of
>>artwork makes it look bad.
>
>
> You only see art that you dislike.
> By just looking at the art, you cannot know what the artist's feelings
> were when drawing it.
I must admit that you're right. I generally don't like Mau Heymans'
style, somehow I find his brother's style to be somewhat more lively,
even though they are very similar. All in all, I prefer styles that are
more similar to Barks or Vicar as they are my favorite artists from
childhood.
Anyway, I can't tell what he was feeling when he did the art to that
story. I am sorry that I deigned to make such a comment.
As you say, he might have matured as an artist and found his own style.
I just preferred that older art in the left (check the link, above). I
think the depictment of movement and facial expressions are much better
in the that one. That made me to draw a conclusion that he did the
artwork hastily.
At least Rob and Harry just came forward as fans of him, so his style
must have something in it - something that I just can't see, not yet anyway.
--
- Kai Saarto
http://www.perunamaa.net/donrosa
Author
Topic: 200301
(268 messages)
Kai Saarto
Mau Heijmans' (or any other artist's) feelings
Message 211 -
2003-01-28 at 21:23:22
Kai Saarto
Artist's Enthusiasm
Message 212 -
2003-01-28 at 22:03:52
Rob Klein wrote:
> I agree one hundred percent with Daniel. After an artist draws (and
> writes) for the same character after several years, the spontaneity,
> freshness, variety of their work may suffer to some extent. I've
> seen evidence of this in the work of most artists (including myself).
> And, that includes musicians, all other forms of art and just about
> any endevour in life. That does NOT mean the artist has less
> enthusiasm for the work, (although that can sometimes be a
OK, I can buy that. Still, lack of spontaneity, freshness and variety
(to use your terms) could _also_ be a sign of less enthusiasm. But as
Dani?l said, I am not the person to say who is feeling what.
> To my taste, both Barks' and Gottfredson's works lost freshness and
> spontaneity in their later years, but still remained at an acceptable
> level (if not as well- loved as their earleir and classic period
> works) because of experience.
Yes, I agree. IMO Barks did his best stories and best artwork in the
early/mid-fifties (I am not familiar enought with Gottfredson to say
this or that, but I like him too).
Maybe artist should take a break once and a while and do something
different. Maybe Don can tell us if his little break had any effect on
his work morale (not that I'd think it was lacking in the first place).
Anyway, thanks for Rob and Dani?l for making my lame comment to an
interesting thread!
--
- Kai Saarto
http://www.perunamaa.net/donrosa
> I agree one hundred percent with Daniel. After an artist draws (and
> writes) for the same character after several years, the spontaneity,
> freshness, variety of their work may suffer to some extent. I've
> seen evidence of this in the work of most artists (including myself).
> And, that includes musicians, all other forms of art and just about
> any endevour in life. That does NOT mean the artist has less
> enthusiasm for the work, (although that can sometimes be a
OK, I can buy that. Still, lack of spontaneity, freshness and variety
(to use your terms) could _also_ be a sign of less enthusiasm. But as
Dani?l said, I am not the person to say who is feeling what.
> To my taste, both Barks' and Gottfredson's works lost freshness and
> spontaneity in their later years, but still remained at an acceptable
> level (if not as well- loved as their earleir and classic period
> works) because of experience.
Yes, I agree. IMO Barks did his best stories and best artwork in the
early/mid-fifties (I am not familiar enought with Gottfredson to say
this or that, but I like him too).
Maybe artist should take a break once and a while and do something
different. Maybe Don can tell us if his little break had any effect on
his work morale (not that I'd think it was lacking in the first place).
Anyway, thanks for Rob and Dani?l for making my lame comment to an
interesting thread!
--
- Kai Saarto
http://www.perunamaa.net/donrosa
Dave Rawson
Jon Clark Interview
Message 213 -
2003-01-28 at 22:38:29
I don't think this link has been posted here before, but if so, apologies.
Regardless, it points to a recent interview with John Clark, the editor of the
new Gemstone Disney Comics.
http://scoop.diamondgalleries.com/scoop_article.asp?ai=1823&si=124
Regardless, it points to a recent interview with John Clark, the editor of the
new Gemstone Disney Comics.
http://scoop.diamondgalleries.com/scoop_article.asp?ai=1823&si=124
SBHSN
Norwegian weeklies
Message 214 -
2003-01-29 at 06:02:10
The mention of the weeklies reminded me of the year (1960-61) I lived in Norway. I was amazed that comics were poublished so frequently. I am embarassed to admit that I didn't care for the typeset lettering of the Donald Duck books, so I read Daffy--I still have two binders (about 50 copies) of that comic. And 1 copy of Donald Duck's Store Show. Ah well.
Does anyone know how to obtain the current Norwegian books in the USA? Tusen takk!
Steve Hanson
Austin TX
Does anyone know how to obtain the current Norwegian books in the USA? Tusen takk!
Steve Hanson
Austin TX
Daniel Van Eijmeren
Later Heijman art looks better
Message 215 -
2003-01-29 at 13:46:36
I think this email is intended for the list.
- - - - - - - - - -
Van: Dan Rosenberg
Aan: Daniel van Eijmeren <dve at kabelfoon.nl>
Onderwerp: Later Heijman art looks better
Datum: dinsdag 28 januari 2003 21:23
Re: > I must agree with you, Simo. Latest Mau Heyman should have never seen
Re: > print in my humble opinion (the story in right). You can see there is
Re: > no love involved in his work.
I actually rather prefer the art on the right. I think it shows more maturity
and a steadier purpose. It also resembles an early Barks style, which I like
even if it does seem copycat.
I haven't read the story so I can't judge if that's of any quality.
I also wouldn't go so far as to say there is no love involved in the art. I think
as people get older they become more tired (that's a given) and perhaps
not as willing to step outside certain parameters with their work. I think it just
shows the artist found a style he liked and stuck with it. Nothing so loveless
about that.
"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana."
--
__________________________________________________________
Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com
http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup
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http://corp.mail.com/lavalife
- - - - - - - - - -
Van: Dan Rosenberg
Aan: Daniel van Eijmeren <dve at kabelfoon.nl>
Onderwerp: Later Heijman art looks better
Datum: dinsdag 28 januari 2003 21:23
Re: > I must agree with you, Simo. Latest Mau Heyman should have never seen
Re: > print in my humble opinion (the story in right). You can see there is
Re: > no love involved in his work.
I actually rather prefer the art on the right. I think it shows more maturity
and a steadier purpose. It also resembles an early Barks style, which I like
even if it does seem copycat.
I haven't read the story so I can't judge if that's of any quality.
I also wouldn't go so far as to say there is no love involved in the art. I think
as people get older they become more tired (that's a given) and perhaps
not as willing to step outside certain parameters with their work. I think it just
shows the artist found a style he liked and stuck with it. Nothing so loveless
about that.
"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana."
--
__________________________________________________________
Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com
http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup
Meet Singles
http://corp.mail.com/lavalife
Stefan Persson
Norwegian weeklies
Message 216 -
2003-01-29 at 17:07:57
SBHSN at aol.com wrote:
> Does anyone know how to obtain the current Norwegian books in the USA? Tusen takk!
You may order a subscription of the weekly from
http://www.disney.no/DonaldDuck/kontaktsenteret/abonnement/index.html.
Stefan
> Does anyone know how to obtain the current Norwegian books in the USA? Tusen takk!
You may order a subscription of the weekly from
http://www.disney.no/DonaldDuck/kontaktsenteret/abonnement/index.html.
Stefan
Vidar Svendsen
Wrong addresses!
Message 217 -
2003-01-29 at 19:09:07
Olaf:
>I'm terribly sorry for the lousy quality. Well, feel free to take a look at
>this and give me feedback.
Looks nice, but maybe you should put words in your story next time ;-)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vidar Svendsen http://home.c2i.net/vidarland/
"Nothing travels faster than the speed of light
with the possible exception of bad news,
which obeys its own special laws."
>I'm terribly sorry for the lousy quality. Well, feel free to take a look at
>this and give me feedback.
Looks nice, but maybe you should put words in your story next time ;-)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vidar Svendsen http://home.c2i.net/vidarland/
"Nothing travels faster than the speed of light
with the possible exception of bad news,
which obeys its own special laws."
Rob Klein
Strange Message
Message 218 -
2003-01-29 at 19:29:02
I just read a message to DCML that leaves me very puzzled. It was from Olaf to
Vidar Svendsen. It mentioned that Olaf wanted Vidar's opinion on a drawing (or
some drawings). No URL link to the drawings was included. I assume the drawing
(s) was (were) included as an attachment to the note. I also assume this
message was erroniously sent to dcml, rather than just a private message. If it
was, indeed, intended for dcml; Olaf, please send a message to DCML including
the link. I love to view any Disney comic work (what is in print at any one
time is never enough)-especially before it is inked! But, if you don't want to
send it publically to the list, I hope you'll send me a personal view at
<bi442 at lafn.org>. That could suffice for your penance for accidentally
whetting our appetites for prescreening as yet unpublished artwork!
Rob Klein
---------------------------------------------
This message was sent using the LA Free-Net - LA's best kept secret.
http://www.lafn.org/
Vidar Svendsen. It mentioned that Olaf wanted Vidar's opinion on a drawing (or
some drawings). No URL link to the drawings was included. I assume the drawing
(s) was (were) included as an attachment to the note. I also assume this
message was erroniously sent to dcml, rather than just a private message. If it
was, indeed, intended for dcml; Olaf, please send a message to DCML including
the link. I love to view any Disney comic work (what is in print at any one
time is never enough)-especially before it is inked! But, if you don't want to
send it publically to the list, I hope you'll send me a personal view at
<bi442 at lafn.org>. That could suffice for your penance for accidentally
whetting our appetites for prescreening as yet unpublished artwork!
Rob Klein
---------------------------------------------
This message was sent using the LA Free-Net - LA's best kept secret.
http://www.lafn.org/
Vidar Svendsen
Strange Message
Message 219 -
2003-01-29 at 19:53:51
sorry about the message.... wrong adress...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vidar Svendsen http://home.c2i.net/vidarland/
"Nothing travels faster than the speed of light
with the possible exception of bad news,
which obeys its own special laws."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vidar Svendsen http://home.c2i.net/vidarland/
"Nothing travels faster than the speed of light
with the possible exception of bad news,
which obeys its own special laws."
Thorsten Bremer
New version of the "Carl-Barks-Font"
Message 220 -
2003-01-29 at 20:30:30
Hello,
I was informed by Thomas Lauritsen that "our" Barks-Font was part of
the discussion here some days ago.
Yes, we are a german fan-club and so there were only german chars
included in the font. But meanwhile Thomas created an expanded version
of the font. It's now including:
- Latin letters and numbers A-Z, a-z, and 0-9
- Latin letters accented with:
grave, acute, tilde, dieresis/umlaut, circumflex, cedilla,
caron, macron, breve, dot, ring, ogonek, Hungarian umlaut
- Greek letters Alpha-Omega, alpha-omega
- Greek letters accented with:
tonos, dieresis & tonos, anoteleia
- Various punctuation marks
- Various special characters and signs, incl. the euro symbol
- Kerning enabled
The font is available at http://www.donald.org/de/barks/font/. The
page is still in german only, for those who didn't understand it, here
are the direct links:
Windows: http://www.donald.org/de/barks/font/CarlBarksScript2.zip
Mac: http://www.donald.org/de/barks/font/CarlBarksScript2.sit
The fonts are only tested with Windows, because Thomas and me didn't
own a Mac. If a Mac-User finds an error in the font, please inform me.
The licence of the font:
Because I don't know who made the "original" font, I think I can say,
that the Version 2 of the Barks-Font is available as Freeware. Enjoy
it :-)
--
Bis denne, <? ><
Thoddi
I was informed by Thomas Lauritsen that "our" Barks-Font was part of
the discussion here some days ago.
Yes, we are a german fan-club and so there were only german chars
included in the font. But meanwhile Thomas created an expanded version
of the font. It's now including:
- Latin letters and numbers A-Z, a-z, and 0-9
- Latin letters accented with:
grave, acute, tilde, dieresis/umlaut, circumflex, cedilla,
caron, macron, breve, dot, ring, ogonek, Hungarian umlaut
- Greek letters Alpha-Omega, alpha-omega
- Greek letters accented with:
tonos, dieresis & tonos, anoteleia
- Various punctuation marks
- Various special characters and signs, incl. the euro symbol
- Kerning enabled
The font is available at http://www.donald.org/de/barks/font/. The
page is still in german only, for those who didn't understand it, here
are the direct links:
Windows: http://www.donald.org/de/barks/font/CarlBarksScript2.zip
Mac: http://www.donald.org/de/barks/font/CarlBarksScript2.sit
The fonts are only tested with Windows, because Thomas and me didn't
own a Mac. If a Mac-User finds an error in the font, please inform me.
The licence of the font:
Because I don't know who made the "original" font, I think I can say,
that the Version 2 of the Barks-Font is available as Freeware. Enjoy
it :-)
--
Bis denne, <? ><
Thoddi
Deanmary
John Clark interview
Message 221 -
2003-01-29 at 21:20:19
Thanks Dave for the link to the John Clark interview! I don't
believe there has been a link to the article before on the list.
I am glad to hear that starting in September there will a Donald and
a Mickey comic book for $2.95. So that means that Scrooge, Donald, and
Mickey will have their own comics, plus of course WDC&S. I think those
are four great titles to start out with.
I am a little concerned about what was not mentioned though. One,
there was no mention of trade paperbacks. I think many dedicated Disney
comics fans would love to see collections in that format. Two, and more
serious to my way of thinking, there was no mention of selling some sort
of "digest" format comic in the Wal-Marts, Targets, etc. of the
country. Perhaps Gary could tell us if there has been any snag in such
negotiations with these big retailers? I think it is vital to get these
digest comics into these stores. While I am thrilled with the two $2.95
titles, I still think the best way to reach a new generation of kids is
the digest route. Every time I am in a Wal-Mart I see various Archie
digests, and have seen them for many years now. If Archie digests have
been successfully sold this way for years, I see no reason Disney
digests could not do at least as well if not better. Hopefully digests
are still an important part of the plan though.
I hope I don't come across as being negative or too picky in what I
am looking for in this next round of Disney comics. Personally, I will
buy every issue in every format presented, and the first four titles
sound fantastic to me! However, if Disney comics do not reach the kids
this time, this new license perhaps will only be a "reprieve" from a
future loss of the license. That I do not want to see! I hope Disney
comics are back for good! Of course I think the *whole* comic book
industry in the US is in trouble down the road if it doesn't get today's
kids into reading comics, but that is a whole different tangent...
Dean Rekich
believe there has been a link to the article before on the list.
I am glad to hear that starting in September there will a Donald and
a Mickey comic book for $2.95. So that means that Scrooge, Donald, and
Mickey will have their own comics, plus of course WDC&S. I think those
are four great titles to start out with.
I am a little concerned about what was not mentioned though. One,
there was no mention of trade paperbacks. I think many dedicated Disney
comics fans would love to see collections in that format. Two, and more
serious to my way of thinking, there was no mention of selling some sort
of "digest" format comic in the Wal-Marts, Targets, etc. of the
country. Perhaps Gary could tell us if there has been any snag in such
negotiations with these big retailers? I think it is vital to get these
digest comics into these stores. While I am thrilled with the two $2.95
titles, I still think the best way to reach a new generation of kids is
the digest route. Every time I am in a Wal-Mart I see various Archie
digests, and have seen them for many years now. If Archie digests have
been successfully sold this way for years, I see no reason Disney
digests could not do at least as well if not better. Hopefully digests
are still an important part of the plan though.
I hope I don't come across as being negative or too picky in what I
am looking for in this next round of Disney comics. Personally, I will
buy every issue in every format presented, and the first four titles
sound fantastic to me! However, if Disney comics do not reach the kids
this time, this new license perhaps will only be a "reprieve" from a
future loss of the license. That I do not want to see! I hope Disney
comics are back for good! Of course I think the *whole* comic book
industry in the US is in trouble down the road if it doesn't get today's
kids into reading comics, but that is a whole different tangent...
Dean Rekich
SBHSN
Norwegian weeklies
Message 222 -
2003-01-30 at 03:43:15
In a message dated 1/29/2003 9:08:17 AM Central Standard Time,
spe at inducks.org writes:
> http://www.disney.no/DonaldDuck/kontaktsenteret/abonnement/index.html
Jeg har vaert der fo/r, men det gjelder kun abonnement i Norge.
They don't quote a foreign price.
Perhaps I should use the Kontaktsenteret to inquire.
I suspect the postage is outrageous...thanks for the assistance!
Steve Hanson
spe at inducks.org writes:
> http://www.disney.no/DonaldDuck/kontaktsenteret/abonnement/index.html
Jeg har vaert der fo/r, men det gjelder kun abonnement i Norge.
They don't quote a foreign price.
Perhaps I should use the Kontaktsenteret to inquire.
I suspect the postage is outrageous...thanks for the assistance!
Steve Hanson
Stefan Persson
Norwegian weeklies
Message 223 -
2003-01-30 at 04:10:12
SBHSN at aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 1/29/2003 9:08:17 AM Central Standard Time,
> spe at inducks.org writes:
>
>> http://www.disney.no/DonaldDuck/kontaktsenteret/abonnement/index.html
>
> Jeg har vaert der fo/r, men det gjelder kun abonnement i Norge.
>
> They don't quote a foreign price.
There *is* a foreign price on that page:
Norge (m/moms -- incl. VAT) -- Norden/Northern Europe -- ?vrige land/other countries
Helt ?r/whole year kr. 949,- Kr 1.529,- Kr 1.649,-
Halvt ?r/half a yr kr. 449,- Kr 765,- Kr 825,-
There's no country field to fill in, though.
Stefan
> In a message dated 1/29/2003 9:08:17 AM Central Standard Time,
> spe at inducks.org writes:
>
>> http://www.disney.no/DonaldDuck/kontaktsenteret/abonnement/index.html
>
> Jeg har vaert der fo/r, men det gjelder kun abonnement i Norge.
>
> They don't quote a foreign price.
There *is* a foreign price on that page:
Norge (m/moms -- incl. VAT) -- Norden/Northern Europe -- ?vrige land/other countries
Helt ?r/whole year kr. 949,- Kr 1.529,- Kr 1.649,-
Halvt ?r/half a yr kr. 449,- Kr 765,- Kr 825,-
There's no country field to fill in, though.
Stefan
Timo Ronkainen
Norwegian weeklies
Message 224 -
2003-01-30 at 10:17:09
>They don't quote a foreign price.
But surely they do: Øvrige land Kr 1649 which is 239 US dollars.
Timo
^^''*''^^
Cartoonist - writer - donaldist -
Timo Ronkainen ---------------- -
YO-kylä 52 A 26 --------------- -
20540 Turku ------------------- -
Finland ----------------------- -
timoro at hotmail.com
timoro at sunpoint.net
¨¨ Personal:
http://www.geocities.com/timoro2/
¨¨ Ankkalinnan Pamaus:
http://www.perunamaa.net/ankistit/
.................................
"Rumble on, buxom bumble bee!
Go sit on cowslip - far from me!"
_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
But surely they do: Øvrige land Kr 1649 which is 239 US dollars.
Timo
^^''*''^^
Cartoonist - writer - donaldist -
Timo Ronkainen ---------------- -
YO-kylä 52 A 26 --------------- -
20540 Turku ------------------- -
Finland ----------------------- -
timoro at hotmail.com
timoro at sunpoint.net
¨¨ Personal:
http://www.geocities.com/timoro2/
¨¨ Ankkalinnan Pamaus:
http://www.perunamaa.net/ankistit/
.................................
"Rumble on, buxom bumble bee!
Go sit on cowslip - far from me!"
_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
Magnus Bark (Farbror Skojskoj, En Av De Tjocka Farbröderna)
New version of the "Carl-Barks-Font"
Message 225 -
2003-01-30 at 10:36:15
Magnus Bark (Farbror Skojskoj, en av de tjocka farbr?derna) har skickat vidare det h?r inl?gget till dig.
Quack!
What a great font. I just tried to use it in my emacs (acting as a
conference reader at that point):
<URL:http://brugd.ctrl-c.liu.se/~bark/carbarks.gif>
Hm. It's probably better in speech bubbles.
/ Magnus Bark (Farbror Skojskoj, en av de tjocka farbr?derna)
Previous text:
>2003-01-29 19:39:
>Subject: New version of the "Carl-Barks-Font"
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>Hello,
>
>I was informed by Thomas Lauritsen that "our" Barks-Font was part of
>the discussion here some days ago.
>Yes, we are a german fan-club and so there were only german chars
>included in the font. But meanwhile Thomas created an expanded version
>of the font. It's now including:
>
>- Latin letters and numbers A-Z, a-z, and 0-9
>- Latin letters accented with:
> grave, acute, tilde, dieresis/umlaut, circumflex, cedilla,
> caron, macron, breve, dot, ring, ogonek, Hungarian umlaut
>- Greek letters Alpha-Omega, alpha-omega
>- Greek letters accented with:
> tonos, dieresis & tonos, anoteleia
>- Various punctuation marks
>- Various special characters and signs, incl. the euro symbol
>- Kerning enabled
>
>The font is available at http://www.donald.org/de/barks/font/. The
>page is still in german only, for those who didn't understand it, here
>are the direct links:
>
>Windows: http://www.donald.org/de/barks/font/CarlBarksScript2.zip
>Mac: http://www.donald.org/de/barks/font/CarlBarksScript2.sit
>
>The fonts are only tested with Windows, because Thomas and me didn't
>own a Mac. If a Mac-User finds an error in the font, please inform me.
>
>The licence of the font:
>Because I don't know who made the "original" font, I think I can say,
>that the Version 2 of the Barks-Font is available as Freeware. Enjoy
>it :-)
>
>--
>Bis denne, <? ><
> Thoddi
>
>_______________________________________________
>http://stp.ling.uu.se/mailman/listinfo/dcml
>
>
> / Brevb?raren
>
Quack!
What a great font. I just tried to use it in my emacs (acting as a
conference reader at that point):
<URL:http://brugd.ctrl-c.liu.se/~bark/carbarks.gif>
Hm. It's probably better in speech bubbles.
/ Magnus Bark (Farbror Skojskoj, en av de tjocka farbr?derna)
Previous text:
>2003-01-29 19:39:
>Subject: New version of the "Carl-Barks-Font"
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>Hello,
>
>I was informed by Thomas Lauritsen that "our" Barks-Font was part of
>the discussion here some days ago.
>Yes, we are a german fan-club and so there were only german chars
>included in the font. But meanwhile Thomas created an expanded version
>of the font. It's now including:
>
>- Latin letters and numbers A-Z, a-z, and 0-9
>- Latin letters accented with:
> grave, acute, tilde, dieresis/umlaut, circumflex, cedilla,
> caron, macron, breve, dot, ring, ogonek, Hungarian umlaut
>- Greek letters Alpha-Omega, alpha-omega
>- Greek letters accented with:
> tonos, dieresis & tonos, anoteleia
>- Various punctuation marks
>- Various special characters and signs, incl. the euro symbol
>- Kerning enabled
>
>The font is available at http://www.donald.org/de/barks/font/. The
>page is still in german only, for those who didn't understand it, here
>are the direct links:
>
>Windows: http://www.donald.org/de/barks/font/CarlBarksScript2.zip
>Mac: http://www.donald.org/de/barks/font/CarlBarksScript2.sit
>
>The fonts are only tested with Windows, because Thomas and me didn't
>own a Mac. If a Mac-User finds an error in the font, please inform me.
>
>The licence of the font:
>Because I don't know who made the "original" font, I think I can say,
>that the Version 2 of the Barks-Font is available as Freeware. Enjoy
>it :-)
>
>--
>Bis denne, <? ><
> Thoddi
>
>_______________________________________________
>http://stp.ling.uu.se/mailman/listinfo/dcml
>
>
> / Brevb?raren
>