David:
> "Super Donald" isn't a legitimate English name for the
> character. Donald
> is his *secret* identity, and he wouldn't reveal it by making
> it part of his public superhero name.
Well, in Dutch his name *is* Superdonald. Besides, in Duckburg and surroundings, no one would recognise secret identities, even if the people have quite unique marks like a sailor hat or a name like "Supergoof".
--Harry.
Harry Fluks -- TNO Telecom -- Delft -- Nederland
h.w.fluks at telecom.tno.nl -- http://dd50.inducks.org
"Wie ben ik? Wat doe ik hier? Waar is mijn Roddelflop?"
Author
Topic: 200402
(299 messages)
H.W.Fluks
Paperinik
Message 151 -
2004-02-17 at 20:20:14
Rich Bellacera
Paperinik or Pikappa?
Message 152 -
2004-02-17 at 20:58:05
Lately I've noticed the common use of the Italian name "Pikappa" in reference to
PKNA/Paperinik. What does Pikappa mean and how is it used with respect to
Paperinik (The Duck Avenger)? I'm a little confused.
Thanks,
Rich Bellacera
(Email removed)
---- Msg sent via CWNet - http://www.cwnet.com/
PKNA/Paperinik. What does Pikappa mean and how is it used with respect to
Paperinik (The Duck Avenger)? I'm a little confused.
Thanks,
Rich Bellacera
(Email removed)
---- Msg sent via CWNet - http://www.cwnet.com/
Olivier
Paperinik
Message 153 -
2004-02-17 at 21:06:20
>>>> David:
>> > "Super Donald" isn't a legitimate English name for the
>>> > character. Donald
>>> > is his *secret* identity, and he wouldn't reveal it by making
>>> > it part of his public superhero name.
Harry:
>>> Well, in Dutch his name *is* Superdonald. Besides, in Duckburg and
surroundings, no one would recognise secret
>>>identities, even if the people have quite unique marks like a sailor hat
or a name like "Supergoof".
It's a odd convention that a mere mask or change of costume makes you
unrecognizable / unidentifiable: Clark Kent can in no way be Superman, Don
Diego certainly doesn't sound like Zorro, the Beagle Boys clearly don't look
like-- uh, forget that one-- Wonder Woman and Diana Prince have nothing in
common (it's all in the glasses, like Clark), ...
Olivier
>> > "Super Donald" isn't a legitimate English name for the
>>> > character. Donald
>>> > is his *secret* identity, and he wouldn't reveal it by making
>>> > it part of his public superhero name.
Harry:
>>> Well, in Dutch his name *is* Superdonald. Besides, in Duckburg and
surroundings, no one would recognise secret
>>>identities, even if the people have quite unique marks like a sailor hat
or a name like "Supergoof".
It's a odd convention that a mere mask or change of costume makes you
unrecognizable / unidentifiable: Clark Kent can in no way be Superman, Don
Diego certainly doesn't sound like Zorro, the Beagle Boys clearly don't look
like-- uh, forget that one-- Wonder Woman and Diana Prince have nothing in
common (it's all in the glasses, like Clark), ...
Olivier
Stefan Persson
Paperinik or Pikappa?
Message 154 -
2004-02-17 at 21:28:09
Rich Bellacera wrote:
> Lately I've noticed the common use of the Italian name "Pikappa" in reference to
> PKNA/Paperinik. What does Pikappa mean and how is it used with respect to
> Paperinik (The Duck Avenger)? I'm a little confused.
Pi = P
Kappa = K
PK = abbreviation for Paperinik.
Stefan
> Lately I've noticed the common use of the Italian name "Pikappa" in reference to
> PKNA/Paperinik. What does Pikappa mean and how is it used with respect to
> Paperinik (The Duck Avenger)? I'm a little confused.
Pi = P
Kappa = K
PK = abbreviation for Paperinik.
Stefan
Rich Bellacera
Paperinik or Pikappa?
Message 155 -
2004-02-17 at 21:29:15
Stefan Persson said:
>Pi = P
>Kappa = K
>
>PK = abbreviation for Paperinik.
As Homer Simpson would say, "D'Oh!"
Now I get it. LOL!
Well, since those are actually "Greek" letters, wouldn't that make it
*another* "Greek" name along with Fantom Ntak? :-)
Evenso, along these lines, as what is P.K. supposed to be an abbreviation for
(aside from Pi Kappa, that is)?
In English, the "Phantom Knight" (like Batman is called the "Dark Knight") would
easily work (especially since so many countries already call him a variant
of "Phantom").
What is this "Galactic Code" thing Francesco suggests?
Donald has way too many names as a superhero now.... There needs to be some
streamlining, I would think.
Thanks Stephen & Francesco!
Rich Bellacera
(Email removed)
---- Msg sent via CWNet - http://www.cwnet.com/
>Pi = P
>Kappa = K
>
>PK = abbreviation for Paperinik.
As Homer Simpson would say, "D'Oh!"
Now I get it. LOL!
Well, since those are actually "Greek" letters, wouldn't that make it
*another* "Greek" name along with Fantom Ntak? :-)
Evenso, along these lines, as what is P.K. supposed to be an abbreviation for
(aside from Pi Kappa, that is)?
In English, the "Phantom Knight" (like Batman is called the "Dark Knight") would
easily work (especially since so many countries already call him a variant
of "Phantom").
What is this "Galactic Code" thing Francesco suggests?
Donald has way too many names as a superhero now.... There needs to be some
streamlining, I would think.
Thanks Stephen & Francesco!
Rich Bellacera
(Email removed)
---- Msg sent via CWNet - http://www.cwnet.com/
Francesco Spreafico
Paperinik or Pikappa?
Message 156 -
2004-02-17 at 21:30:56
Rich Bellacera wrote:
> Lately I've noticed the common use of the Italian name "Pikappa" in
> reference to PKNA/Paperinik. What does Pikappa mean and how is it used
> with respect to Paperinik (The Duck Avenger)? I'm a little confused.
"Pikappa" is the sound of the letters "p" (pi) and "k" (kappa) in Italian,
joined in one only word. It started being called like that in 1996, in the
series "PKNA" (Paperinik New Adventures), because... well, for no real
reason I guess, it just sounded cool and made him somewhat different from
the classic Paperinik.
Later in the current PKNA book (Now named only "PK") they got completely rid
of continuity and started from scratch, in a world where Paperinik never
even existed and the super hero secret identity Donald starts to have in
issue 1 (given to him by some aliens!) is just named "PK" (still pronounced
"pikappa", I guess), being some kind of galactic code or something... I
actually read that issue and forgot it right away since I found the whole
concept preposterous!
Francesco
http://www.dimensionedelta.net
> Lately I've noticed the common use of the Italian name "Pikappa" in
> reference to PKNA/Paperinik. What does Pikappa mean and how is it used
> with respect to Paperinik (The Duck Avenger)? I'm a little confused.
"Pikappa" is the sound of the letters "p" (pi) and "k" (kappa) in Italian,
joined in one only word. It started being called like that in 1996, in the
series "PKNA" (Paperinik New Adventures), because... well, for no real
reason I guess, it just sounded cool and made him somewhat different from
the classic Paperinik.
Later in the current PKNA book (Now named only "PK") they got completely rid
of continuity and started from scratch, in a world where Paperinik never
even existed and the super hero secret identity Donald starts to have in
issue 1 (given to him by some aliens!) is just named "PK" (still pronounced
"pikappa", I guess), being some kind of galactic code or something... I
actually read that issue and forgot it right away since I found the whole
concept preposterous!
Francesco
http://www.dimensionedelta.net
Stefan Persson
Paperinik or Pikappa?
Message 157 -
2004-02-17 at 22:12:28
Rich Bellacera wrote:
> Well, since those are actually "Greek" letters, wouldn't that make it
> *another* "Greek" name along with Fantom Ntak? :-)
Those are the Italian pronunciations of the Roman letters P & K
respectively.
> What is this "Galactic Code" thing Francesco suggests?
See http://coa.inducks.org/coa/c1/story.php/0/I+PK3+++1-1
Stefan
> Well, since those are actually "Greek" letters, wouldn't that make it
> *another* "Greek" name along with Fantom Ntak? :-)
Those are the Italian pronunciations of the Roman letters P & K
respectively.
> What is this "Galactic Code" thing Francesco suggests?
See http://coa.inducks.org/coa/c1/story.php/0/I+PK3+++1-1
Stefan
Rich Bellacera
Ellsworth "Bhezer"?
Message 158 -
2004-02-17 at 22:31:23
What is the Origin of Ellsworth's surname name "Bhezer"? Or is it actually a
surname? Did it originate with Bill Walsh in the early comicstrips or with the
Italians such as Romano Scarpa?
Also is it correct that the name "Bruno" was once used by the Italians before it
was replace by "Gancio" and does it have anything to do with the two names for
Ellsworth's son alternately known as "Gancetto" and "Bruto" by Italians?
Thanks,
Rich Bellacera
(Email removed)
---- Msg sent via CWNet - http://www.cwnet.com/
surname? Did it originate with Bill Walsh in the early comicstrips or with the
Italians such as Romano Scarpa?
Also is it correct that the name "Bruno" was once used by the Italians before it
was replace by "Gancio" and does it have anything to do with the two names for
Ellsworth's son alternately known as "Gancetto" and "Bruto" by Italians?
Thanks,
Rich Bellacera
(Email removed)
---- Msg sent via CWNet - http://www.cwnet.com/
Francesco Spreafico
Paperinik or Pikappa?
Message 159 -
2004-02-17 at 22:31:47
Stefan Persson wrote:
>> What is this "Galactic Code" thing Francesco suggests?
>
> See http://coa.inducks.org/coa/c1/story.php/0/I+PK3+++1-1
That doesn't explain much :-)
Ok, let's do this orrible thing and go take a look at this book...
Ok, done (yuck!)... Donald gets picked up by these "Watchers of the Galaxy"
(all of them wear the outfit we're used to see Paperink wear since 1969,
that's so weird) to be Earth's Watcher.
At the very end of the story, after he's beaten some Evronians (evil aliens)
he's asked what his name is... he has no clue about what to say, takes a
look at his shield and sees a code "PK2370"... so he answers "From now on
call me... Pikappa". No real meaning at all!
Sprea
>> What is this "Galactic Code" thing Francesco suggests?
>
> See http://coa.inducks.org/coa/c1/story.php/0/I+PK3+++1-1
That doesn't explain much :-)
Ok, let's do this orrible thing and go take a look at this book...
Ok, done (yuck!)... Donald gets picked up by these "Watchers of the Galaxy"
(all of them wear the outfit we're used to see Paperink wear since 1969,
that's so weird) to be Earth's Watcher.
At the very end of the story, after he's beaten some Evronians (evil aliens)
he's asked what his name is... he has no clue about what to say, takes a
look at his shield and sees a code "PK2370"... so he answers "From now on
call me... Pikappa". No real meaning at all!
Sprea
Don Rosa
DCML Digest Issue 24
Message 160 -
2004-02-17 at 22:39:35
> From: Mads Jensen <madsj at raptus.dk>
> Subject: Rosa stories ?
> I just finished reading a Geoffrey Blum in the Danish fanzine "Carl
> Barks & Co." #19, I noticed that there's a Rosa story which Byron
> Ericson rejected, but then Bob Foster accepted it at some point. The
> story is called "The Money Whirl Pool" (according to Blum), and I'd like
> to know if anyone knows what became of that story ?
The story wasn't titled "Money Whirlpool". It was "The Money Pit". As you
probably know, that was in the first issue of Disney's DONALD DUCK
ADVENTURES -- I submitted only that single story to them as a symbol of good
faith that I would work for them if they changed some of their various
archaic policies... then I continued to work for Egmont (Gutenburghus, in
those days).
> Furthermore Blum mentions "Ghast Gow" as the first thing he ever saw by
> Rosa, but the interview doesn't mention it any further. But according to
> Blum, the reason why it was rejected was that it was built too much over
> an old classic (which could only be by Barks, in this contents, I
> believe ? :-))
I could decipher what that first misinformation involved, but this seems to
have no bearing on any facts that I know of. Are you sure you're translating
this correctly? "Ghast Gow" seems to not be translated back from whatever
language that fanzine is written in... it is totally unrecognizable to me,
but it doesn't look like it could mean "The Son of the Sun" which is the
first Duck story I ever did and the first story of mine that Blum ever saw.
That story, of course, was not rejected, and Blum never saw it until it was
completed, art and all, at which point he wrote me a long letter saying it
was the best $crooge adventure since Barks retired. Aside from "The Money
Pit", there were no stories that I ever did for Gladstone that were
rejected. Oh, wait -- there was a short story that I wrote (never drew)
about the opening of the new Disney/MGM Studio Park that was rejected by
Disney for bizarre reasons that were never explained... perhaps they simply
didn't want their Parks promoted inside comic books which they didn't have
enough control over... I'll never know the reason. And I'm not even sure if
I was to do it for the Gladstone issues or something else that Hamilton
planned to interest Disney in.
Blum is a first-rate Barks scholar, but this would not be the first time he
has reported incorrect information about my stories without checking the
accuracy of his facts or of ideas he's gotten into his head from unknown (to
me) sources. That's why I had to hand-correct those errors in the Blum
article on my work in the Gladstone "Life of $crooge" book so that I could
allow myself to still autograph the entire print run which I didn't want
Gladstone to hafta eat. If you are reporting the article in the fanzine you
mention accurately, Blum must have been wildly misquoted! Otherwise he's
made up some pretty exotic information in that interview. Or maybe "Ghast
Gow" was a story somebody else did?
> Subject: Rosa stories ?
> I just finished reading a Geoffrey Blum in the Danish fanzine "Carl
> Barks & Co." #19, I noticed that there's a Rosa story which Byron
> Ericson rejected, but then Bob Foster accepted it at some point. The
> story is called "The Money Whirl Pool" (according to Blum), and I'd like
> to know if anyone knows what became of that story ?
The story wasn't titled "Money Whirlpool". It was "The Money Pit". As you
probably know, that was in the first issue of Disney's DONALD DUCK
ADVENTURES -- I submitted only that single story to them as a symbol of good
faith that I would work for them if they changed some of their various
archaic policies... then I continued to work for Egmont (Gutenburghus, in
those days).
> Furthermore Blum mentions "Ghast Gow" as the first thing he ever saw by
> Rosa, but the interview doesn't mention it any further. But according to
> Blum, the reason why it was rejected was that it was built too much over
> an old classic (which could only be by Barks, in this contents, I
> believe ? :-))
I could decipher what that first misinformation involved, but this seems to
have no bearing on any facts that I know of. Are you sure you're translating
this correctly? "Ghast Gow" seems to not be translated back from whatever
language that fanzine is written in... it is totally unrecognizable to me,
but it doesn't look like it could mean "The Son of the Sun" which is the
first Duck story I ever did and the first story of mine that Blum ever saw.
That story, of course, was not rejected, and Blum never saw it until it was
completed, art and all, at which point he wrote me a long letter saying it
was the best $crooge adventure since Barks retired. Aside from "The Money
Pit", there were no stories that I ever did for Gladstone that were
rejected. Oh, wait -- there was a short story that I wrote (never drew)
about the opening of the new Disney/MGM Studio Park that was rejected by
Disney for bizarre reasons that were never explained... perhaps they simply
didn't want their Parks promoted inside comic books which they didn't have
enough control over... I'll never know the reason. And I'm not even sure if
I was to do it for the Gladstone issues or something else that Hamilton
planned to interest Disney in.
Blum is a first-rate Barks scholar, but this would not be the first time he
has reported incorrect information about my stories without checking the
accuracy of his facts or of ideas he's gotten into his head from unknown (to
me) sources. That's why I had to hand-correct those errors in the Blum
article on my work in the Gladstone "Life of $crooge" book so that I could
allow myself to still autograph the entire print run which I didn't want
Gladstone to hafta eat. If you are reporting the article in the fanzine you
mention accurately, Blum must have been wildly misquoted! Otherwise he's
made up some pretty exotic information in that interview. Or maybe "Ghast
Gow" was a story somebody else did?
Jano Rohleder
[Off Topic] I'd need help from a French member
Message 161 -
2004-02-17 at 22:59:15
Hi together,
this message is directed towards the French and Canadian DCML-members (and
anyone who speaks perfectly French).
It would be great if someone could tell me (in some French headwords
or -sentences would be the best) what the following text says about Quebec.
That could be information on landscape, culture, climate, people, etc.
It's a very difficult text and even after five and a half years of French
learning in school I don't understand much. I already found out that it's
very snowy and that the author (or the protagonist) thinks that the Quebecan
(is that the word?) interest for education isn't very high.
Here is the link: http://donrosa.free.fr/off-topic/text/
To give a better overview, I scanned the text in 10 small parts,
nevertheless it's not a very long text (especially if you understand what it
says ;-)).
It would be very great if someone could help me. In that case, please
contact me directly (not over DCML).
Thanks in advance and best wishes
Jano
this message is directed towards the French and Canadian DCML-members (and
anyone who speaks perfectly French).
It would be great if someone could tell me (in some French headwords
or -sentences would be the best) what the following text says about Quebec.
That could be information on landscape, culture, climate, people, etc.
It's a very difficult text and even after five and a half years of French
learning in school I don't understand much. I already found out that it's
very snowy and that the author (or the protagonist) thinks that the Quebecan
(is that the word?) interest for education isn't very high.
Here is the link: http://donrosa.free.fr/off-topic/text/
To give a better overview, I scanned the text in 10 small parts,
nevertheless it's not a very long text (especially if you understand what it
says ;-)).
It would be very great if someone could help me. In that case, please
contact me directly (not over DCML).
Thanks in advance and best wishes
Jano
Cristina
Paperinik or Pikappa?
Message 162 -
2004-02-18 at 01:05:09
----- Original Message -----
From: "Francesco Spreafico" <frspreaf at tin.it>
To: "DCML" <dcml at stp.ling.uu.se>
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 9:31 PM
Subject: Re: Paperinik or Pikappa?
> Stefan Persson wrote:
>
> >> What is this "Galactic Code" thing Francesco suggests?
> >
> > See http://coa.inducks.org/coa/c1/story.php/0/I+PK3+++1-1
>
> That doesn't explain much :-)
>
> Ok, let's do this orrible thing and go take a look at this book...
>
> Ok, done (yuck!)... Donald gets picked up by these "Watchers of the
Galaxy"
> (all of them wear the outfit we're used to see Paperink wear since 1969,
> that's so weird) to be Earth's Watcher.
> At the very end of the story, after he's beaten some Evronians (evil
aliens)
> he's asked what his name is... he has no clue about what to say, takes a
> look at his shield and sees a code "PK2370"... so he answers "From now on
> call me... Pikappa". No real meaning at all!
>
> Sprea
>
Mind if I add a couple things to your statement, Francesco? ;)
What italian readers found more disappointing in this new Pk (also known as
the "third series", even thought it has no relation at all with the previous
two series titled respectively "Pkna - Paperinik New Adventures" and "Pk2")
was in fact its brand new protagonist, who is still Donald's alter ego,
but... but not Paperinik, not the Paperinik we used to know. PKNA #0
"Evronians" (first episode of the very first series) showed "our"
Paperinik - born at Villa Rosa, occasionally helped by Gyro Gearloose, etc -
meeting the Evronians and fighting them thanks to the precious aid of an
Artificial Intelligence named One. He shortened his name in "Pikappa" for
pratical use; he got new weaponcry, new friends and new enemies to fight, he
went through an incredible number of more-or-less exciting adventures both
on earth and on others planets...but, nevertheless, he still remained
Paperinik. Period. He might have had a new style, BUT he also had all the
original backstory that made him who he was.This new Pk introduces us
Donald - not Paperinik, just Donald - who has NEVER been a superhero, who
had NEVER lived any of the adventures we've read over the years; a Donald
we're not comfortable with, who's chosen by One as the Guardian of Earth and
takes part to a thousand years-long war among the Guardians of the Galaxy
(some kind of space Army which purpose is to defend all others planets from
any eventual attack) and these aliens, the Evronians, who too have lost all
details and background their folk had in Pkna.
Also, aside from that, others reasons why longtime readers of Pkna & Pk2
dislike Pk is because of the issues new format, with notably shorter and
less interesting stories, and the new characters' lack of personalities &
stable background. Add to all this a couple more mistakes (like Donald who
in the very first issue goes to the Ducklair Tower - where he'll meet One -
by reading a message sent him... by who? When, and how? There's just no
telling) and you've got an idea of the situation out here...
Cristina "Christmas"
http://christmas.altervista.org
From: "Francesco Spreafico" <frspreaf at tin.it>
To: "DCML" <dcml at stp.ling.uu.se>
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 9:31 PM
Subject: Re: Paperinik or Pikappa?
> Stefan Persson wrote:
>
> >> What is this "Galactic Code" thing Francesco suggests?
> >
> > See http://coa.inducks.org/coa/c1/story.php/0/I+PK3+++1-1
>
> That doesn't explain much :-)
>
> Ok, let's do this orrible thing and go take a look at this book...
>
> Ok, done (yuck!)... Donald gets picked up by these "Watchers of the
Galaxy"
> (all of them wear the outfit we're used to see Paperink wear since 1969,
> that's so weird) to be Earth's Watcher.
> At the very end of the story, after he's beaten some Evronians (evil
aliens)
> he's asked what his name is... he has no clue about what to say, takes a
> look at his shield and sees a code "PK2370"... so he answers "From now on
> call me... Pikappa". No real meaning at all!
>
> Sprea
>
Mind if I add a couple things to your statement, Francesco? ;)
What italian readers found more disappointing in this new Pk (also known as
the "third series", even thought it has no relation at all with the previous
two series titled respectively "Pkna - Paperinik New Adventures" and "Pk2")
was in fact its brand new protagonist, who is still Donald's alter ego,
but... but not Paperinik, not the Paperinik we used to know. PKNA #0
"Evronians" (first episode of the very first series) showed "our"
Paperinik - born at Villa Rosa, occasionally helped by Gyro Gearloose, etc -
meeting the Evronians and fighting them thanks to the precious aid of an
Artificial Intelligence named One. He shortened his name in "Pikappa" for
pratical use; he got new weaponcry, new friends and new enemies to fight, he
went through an incredible number of more-or-less exciting adventures both
on earth and on others planets...but, nevertheless, he still remained
Paperinik. Period. He might have had a new style, BUT he also had all the
original backstory that made him who he was.This new Pk introduces us
Donald - not Paperinik, just Donald - who has NEVER been a superhero, who
had NEVER lived any of the adventures we've read over the years; a Donald
we're not comfortable with, who's chosen by One as the Guardian of Earth and
takes part to a thousand years-long war among the Guardians of the Galaxy
(some kind of space Army which purpose is to defend all others planets from
any eventual attack) and these aliens, the Evronians, who too have lost all
details and background their folk had in Pkna.
Also, aside from that, others reasons why longtime readers of Pkna & Pk2
dislike Pk is because of the issues new format, with notably shorter and
less interesting stories, and the new characters' lack of personalities &
stable background. Add to all this a couple more mistakes (like Donald who
in the very first issue goes to the Ducklair Tower - where he'll meet One -
by reading a message sent him... by who? When, and how? There's just no
telling) and you've got an idea of the situation out here...
Cristina "Christmas"
http://christmas.altervista.org
Olaf Solstrand
Paperinik or Pikappa?
Message 163 -
2004-02-18 at 02:14:10
Cristina wrote:
> He shortened his name in "Pikappa" for pratical use;
Has it ever been said what it's short for?
--
OW
> He shortened his name in "Pikappa" for pratical use;
Has it ever been said what it's short for?
--
OW
Stefan Persson
Paperinik or Pikappa?
Message 164 -
2004-02-18 at 02:20:41
Olaf Solstrand wrote:
> Cristina wrote:
>
>> He shortened his name in "Pikappa" for pratical use;
>
> Has it ever been said what it's short for?
Paperinik was shortened to PK, which was unshortened to Pikappa.
Stefan
> Cristina wrote:
>
>> He shortened his name in "Pikappa" for pratical use;
>
> Has it ever been said what it's short for?
Paperinik was shortened to PK, which was unshortened to Pikappa.
Stefan
Olaf Solstrand
Paperinik or Pikappa?
Message 165 -
2004-02-18 at 02:30:40
P? Wed, 18 Feb 2004 01:20:41 +0100, skrev Stefan Persson <spe at inducks.org>:
> Paperinik was shortened to PK, which was unshortened to Pikappa.
Yeah... I was just wondering how Paperinik could be "PK".
Or is it shortened in the same way as Denmark becomes DK?
I don't understand where the "K" comes from.
(too many acronyms makes my head go dizzy)
--
OF
> Paperinik was shortened to PK, which was unshortened to Pikappa.
Yeah... I was just wondering how Paperinik could be "PK".
Or is it shortened in the same way as Denmark becomes DK?
I don't understand where the "K" comes from.
(too many acronyms makes my head go dizzy)
--
OF