Keskustelujen arkisto

Dear Folks,

Trouble getting E-Mail to Edinburgh?
======= ======= ====== == ==========
First up: If some of you -- like Dwight -- can't seem to send
a letter to my E-Mail address here without it being intercepted and
sent back to you -- I mean, address <9475609 at arran.sms.ed.ac.uk> --
then you can send it to my Williams College E-Mail address, that
being <96dag at williams.edu>. It's much more difficult for me to
access my Williams account, but I do it a few times each week anyway.
Of course, if you've been writing to me at Edinburgh until now and
it's worked, just GO ON doing that! And so much the better.

Fonts vs. Scalabroni
===== === ==========
Harry on a Scrooge two-pager about fast-growing plants:
> I credited this story to Jose Colomer Fonts (the one Gladstone called
> "Colomer" in their credits for "Danger Island"). Why do you think it is
> Scalabroni?
Notice that the art in "Fast-Growing Plants" is looser than that of
"Danger Island" -- also more "European" in a way. Compare it with
Scalabroni's "Miner Complaint" in US 265, or "The Waves Above, The
Gold Below" in US 260 (both Scalabroni stories, even though at least
one of them is miscredited in the letter column -- the credits were
later corrected), and then compare it to "Danger Island." I
think you'll notice that the characters' pupils are smaller, their
takes are more exaggerated, and there are other differences, too.
I have noticed that this artist who I identify as Scalabroni seems to
do stories for both Egmont and (as with this one) GP. But I think
that Fonts only works for Egmont.
Of course, all of this may be so much jousting at windmills if
I remembered wrong and the US 260 and 264 stories DON'T look so much
like the "Fast-Growing Plants" tale.

Scrooge's accent
========= ======
Dwight: "From reading Barks, I get the idea Scrooge did not
speak with an obvious Scottish accent in the present day. Maybe
some trace of it was left in his pronunciation, but Barks never spelled
it out." Or did he? Try Barks' "Swamp of No Return" (1965), in
which Donald recognizes amnesia-victim Scrooge, who now thinks he's from
Spain, from his accent: "For a *Senor Pato*, that old duck sure had
a *SCOTCH BURR* like Uncle Scrooge's!" This has always been the
definitive moment for me regarding Scrooge's accent...

Br'er Rabbit: Grammar School Graduate
===== ======= ======= ====== ========
Dwight on Egmont's "generic" English: "Imagine Brer Rabbit stories
where all the characters are speaking quite proper English..." I
don't have to imagine them. When Disney Comics (1990-1993) published
new Br'er Rabbit stories from Egmont, NO ONE had ANY accent. In
fact, they went out of their way to make everyone talk as Oxford-like
as possible, even Br'er Bear! On the other hand, when Disney would
reprint an old Br'er Rabbit story, the dialect was not altered.

While we're on the subject of dialect...
===== ===== == === ======= == ==========
Disney should talk. In their own MICKEY MOUSE ADVENTURES, Chief O'
Hara spoke with thicker Irish dialect than I have ever heard given to
any character in fiction. It was almost hard to believe. I liked
it, but I never thought of him as speaking with such thick dialect
before.

And Madam Mim... again!
=== ===== ====== ======
ANDREAS: I like the Ludwig/Mim story, too. I considered that a
typical Egmont Mim story. Now I'm thinking it's probably very
atypical. Is it even Egmont? Do I remember it from a recent British
weekly, or from an older comic?????

Well, folks, that's all for today. I'll be back soon, though.

David Gerstein
"Oh, that the name of Duck should ever sink so low!"
<9475609 at arran.sms.ed.ac.uk>

Once again I am utterly flabbergasted by David Gerstein -- the Human
Database! It's a good thing we've got him around: he knows all this
stuff by issue number. It's been so many years since I've read
"Swamp of No Return" (I probably read it when it came out in 1965
and not since) that I had completely forgotten Donald's reference
to Scrooge's Scottish accent. At any rate, I never had the impression
from Scrooge's dialogue that he was ever speaking with any accent at
all, other than colloquial American. Barks seldom if ever gave him
Scottishisms (like "aye" or "laddie").
On the subject of Irish dialect...I'm just amazed that in the
era of political correctness that Disney's own Mickey Mouse Adventures
would go so overboard in giving Chief O'Hara an Irish accent. For the
non-Americans reading this, I should mention that America, of course,
has long been a country settled by successive waves of immigrants from
different countries, and in the popular mind many ethnic groups have
been identified with specific professions--in part based on reality,
depending on what professions were open to immigrants at the time a
particular group arrived. The Chinese have long been identified with
laundries and restaurants, for example, while the Irish policeman has
been a pop culture staple for decades (long after Irish-accented cops
have disappeared from the scene). I recall a '30s Porky Pig cartoon
in which Porky's mother had a German accent, and I've wondered if it
reflected a now-forgotten ethnic stereotype of Germans in the butcher
shop trade (just as the Italian in the shop next door would be expected
to be a barber). Such stereotypes, even though they had some basis in
reality at one time, are now considered offensive -- I guess because
they supposedly "send a message" that running a laundry or being a
cop or slicing meat or cutting hair is ALL that any member of a ethnic
group can do. (The thought has also occurred to me maybe Porky's
mother doesn't have a German accent but a Yiddish one, with the non-PC
joke of course being a Jewish pig contrasted with the well-known Jewish
dietary restrictions on eating pork -- but as I remember Porky's mom,
her accent still seems unmistakably ethnic German.)
I just read a Madam Mim story the other day that was sort of typical.
Mim comes across a family having a picnic in the woods and making a mess
of the place. Mim, the friend of nature and ecological crusader that she
is, enchants a tree and a garbage can into coming to life, which proceed
to scare and bully the family into cleaning up the mess they made. Mim
looks on self-righteously, but then the enchanted tree and garbage can
come after her: they carry her to her house, which is a mess, and make
her clean her own place up. I'm a little puzzled by the history of this:
how did a minor character from one of the lesser Disney movies get
promoted into her own strip? And does anyone really like it? (I'd still
like to know how two 16th Century French mice ended up on Grandma Duck's
farm -- ah, the mysteries of Disney comics!)

--Dwight Decker

>
> > .... (I'd still like to know how two 16th Century French mice ended
> >up on Grandma Duck's farm -- ah, the mysteries of Disney comics!)
>
> You know, I remember these mice, but I can't for the life of me
> remember which movie they came from! I know that Madam Mim came from
> "The Sword in the Stone." It is somewhat odd that Mim got her own
> strip, given that she wasn't a very major character in the book...
>
The mice are Gus and Jaq from Cinderella. I'd guess that when the
movie came out and the Disney people were looking for ways to
promote it, somebody decided that the only characters with
spin-off potential were the two mice, and Grandma Duck's farm
seemed like a good place to put them. It's one of the few times
where the Disney movie universe intersected the Duck universe --
maybe the only time? (David would know!) I recall a backup story
in the Lady & the Tramp 25c giant comic that came out in 1954
or so, "Lady in the Enchanted Forest." In one afternoon, Lady
met characters from a whole slew of other Disney movies (providing
plenty of fodder for fan debates on whether the Disney universe
is transitive -- if character A has met character B in one story
and character B has met character C in another story, does this
mean character A and character C live in the same world?), but
they were all movie characters (Dumbo, the Seven Dwarfs, etc),
and none of the Duck characters as I recall.

--Dwight Decker

Mikke Mus #11

As I've said earlier, the Norwegian monthly magazine "Mikke Mus" is
usually quiet bad, and this one is not outstanding in any ways.

It opens with a Mickey Mouse story where the police of Duckburg (yes,
Mickey lives in Duckburg, or rather Andeby) is having a basketball
match for charity. Mickey is part of the team (Mickey Mouse on a
basketball team...). This year they are challenged by the bad guys in
prison. Peg Leg Pete is one of them. The police lose the match, Mickey
is stuck in the basket, the policemen are locked into their wardrobe,
the bad guys steal the policecar, Mickey handle the situation on his
own... bla bla bla. 10 pages. (D91418)
This is one of the Mickey stories you Americans don't want to see.

Next is Duck Tales story. A Danish one. Not too bad. Quiet interesting
actually. Both Donald and Rotor participates, BTW. They are all going
to Sibiria (in Russia...) to find the most seldom bird in the world.

Nephews: Which bird is the most seldom in the world, uncle Scrooge?
Scrooge: Maybe your uncle Donald?

On their way they pass Moscow, and Kremlin. Hmmm... there are a lot of
colours in Kremlin, but not _that_ much. And the Vasilij Cathedral is
not on the inside of the walls.
They reach Sibiria, finds a goose (the bird), but when they try to
photograph it from the plane, Rotor flies into a couple of trees, and
the wings brake off. Then, on the ground, they are attacked by wolfs,
saved by a couple of Russians with horses, sent out in a space ship,
because the Russians think they are the kosmonauts they are waiting
for. They land on the planet Kronos, where they find a nest with
square eggs! Then they are attacked by the eggs parents, which are not
hens. They are big and ugly, and lack feathers.
They return to the earth, and find the plane repaired by the Russians.
When they leaves for home, they find a goose, on a nest, among the cargo
in the plane. 16 pages. (D89179)

Next is a five page story with Donald. He's going to a costume ball
with Daisy, and is, as always, late when it comes to finding a costume.
The only thing left is a fish costume. The problems start when he falls
into a container heading for a canning factory. He arrives at the ball
in a big can. (D93292)

The last one is a one-pager with Donald. (D93307)

A magazine called "Mikke Mus" with one Mouse story, and three Duck
stories...

Now I've got Donald Duck #288 at last. Still waiting for the latest
WDC&S. Maybe I should subscribe to them directly from Gladstone...

One day left til Don's coming :-)

Jorgen A. Bangor (jorgenb at ifi.uio.no)

>
>
>
> It opens with a Mickey Mouse story where the police of Duckburg (yes,
> Mickey lives in Duckburg, or rather Andeby) is having a basketball
>
Oh yeah. In the Egmont scheme of things, Mickey and his bunch live in
Duckburg, but just never happen to run into the Duck bunch. In Italian
comics, Mickey lives in "Topolinia," and American comics seem to be
continuing with the idea with the idea he lives in "Mouseton."

> Next is a five page story with Donald. He's going to a costume ball
> with Daisy, and is, as always, late when it comes to finding a costume.
> The only thing left is a fish costume. The problems start when he falls
> into a container heading for a canning factory. He arrives at the ball
> in a big can. (D93292)
>
I'd love to see that story in print! It was one I rescripted for Egmont
last year. The writer was Robert Klein; I forget whether he was Dutch or
German. I even ran into him at the San Diego comics convention last
August and had a nice chat with him. (Note to old-time American fans:
different other Robert Klein than the one who now works in American
animation and once did a lot of art for American fanzines.) He did his
stories in detailed pencil-sketch storyboard form, and he had a unique
way of drawing the characters...I'd just like to see what
the actual artist did with it in the finished version.

--Dwight Decker

James asked what Mickey Mouse stories Mark Evanier wrote.

I think he mostly has done S-coded stories that haven't been published
in the USA, but I don't know of any particular stories. The only
stories I knew he wrote are some Super Goof-stories mentioned in Joe
Torcivia's feature on Super Goof in The Duckburg Times #22.

According to Joe Torcivia's feature on Super Goof in The Duckburg
Times #22, Mark Evanier made 271 stories for Western (mostly
Warn Bros. titles) before departing in 1976. His first story for them
was "Super Goof the Super Star" in Super Goof #27 (published in
October 1973). More information on his Super Goof stories can be
found in that TDT.

As for Mark's Mickey stories he has written lots of S-coded stories
that haven't been published in the USA, but his only Mickey story for
Western (according to Joe Torcivia's "Mickey Mouse Checklist"
(published as a supplement to TDT 17/18)) is "Land of the Lost" in
MM #143. I haven't read it.

As for getting Mark Evanier on the list: I've written him and asked
about it now. Thanks to David for supplying the address.
-- "
Per Starback, Uppsala, Sweden. email: starback at minsk.docs.uu.se
"Life is but a gamble! Let flipism chart your ramble!"

Dear Folks,

The accent business (again!)
=== ====== ======== ========
> [Dwight] recalled a '30s Porky Pig cartoon
> in which Porky's mother had a German accent
This is "Wholly Smoke" (1938). Porky's mom calls him downstairs:
"Porky PIIIIG --- Sooey! Sooey! Sooey! Sooey! Sooey!" One of the
great ones, all right.
> (The thought has also occurred to me maybe Porky's
> mother doesn't have a German accent but a Yiddish one, with the non-PC
> joke of course being a Jewish pig . . .
I don't think Porky's mom is Jewish. But in the more recent Warners
cartoons "Tiny Toon Adventures," Porky's young, distant relation
Hamton J. Pig is indeed Jewish. Seen celebrating Chanukah in one
episode, and with grandparents (seen on several occasions) who are
clearly New York Jews in their accents. (I ought to know -- I'm
Jewish, and many of my relatives have that same accent!) I get a big
kick out of the Jewish-pig joke.
But enough with the Looney Tunes. I love them, but I don't think
this is the place I ought to talk about them...

Gus and Jaq
=== === ===
> > .... (I'd still like to know how two 16th Century French mice ended
> >up on Grandma Duck's farm -- ah, the mysteries of Disney comics!)
I believe that the 1950 issue of VACATION PARADE has a story about
Gus and Jaq having left home and wandering through the city. (They
have a memorable encounter with soda-clerk Daisy Duck.) Then a few
months afterward, the GD feature began in WDC&S, and there it's
explained in the very first one how Gus and Jaq came to live with
Grandma. There is a LOT of continuity within the first year of the
GD feature -- references to previous stories, etc. Also, the first
few episodes of GD, to give them their whole titles, say: "Grandma
Duck, with Gus and Jaq: 'The Cinderella Mice.'" So it was clearly
intended as a publicity move, I believe. Only the mice stayed long
after the film left the theatres...

Inconsistencies in scheduling stories
=============== == ========== =======
> In the first DD story Donald is a journalist [in DD&Co. 44/1994]
This was in the British #40/1994. ???! And I thought that the
stories usually appeared within a week of each other, aside from some
LO$ episodes...
Did my "Two in One" (D93138) ever appear in Germany? My German
friends tried to find it, but have looked in the German MM every week
with no luck. Surprising because the German MM is at least 48 pages
each week, and I can't imagine they would have neglected this
10-pager for lack of space. It was in #39/1994 everywhere else, but
not in Germany. Do our German members want to help me? This is a
story in which Magica de Spell tries to steal Scrooge's dime by
creating a duplicate of herself, which she's supposed to be able to
control with her mind. Unfortunately, she loses mental control of
the double, and a riotous battle ensues.

U$A 30
=== ==
features the first part of "The Lentils of Babylon," as rewritten
(from Italian) in English by yours truly. Gladstone DID NOT PUT
ENGLISH-TRANSLATION CREDITS in the issue, so I am not mentioned! But
it's my work, and I'm proud to claim responsibility for this. (And
if I can possibly get through to John Clark, my translator friend
Micheal Thompson -- and myself -- will both be credited next issue.)

That's all for today, folks. I'll be back, though.

David Gerstein
<9475609 at arran.sms.ed.ac.uk>
"If you'd been through the trouble I've seen, you wouldn't be
singing Glory Hallelujah!"