Keskustelujen arkisto

I don't have reference on these things handy so don't accept them as gospel.

As I understand it, Hardy Gramatky created Little Toot. He was a Disney
employee and offered the property to Disney and they turned him down.
Gramatky then got the story and art published as a children's book.
Disney then adapted it to animation and had to buy the rights to Toot
from Gramatky.

There has definitely been a Little Toot TV series not produced by Disney
made in the last few years. While Disney had rights to make and show their
original short (part of Melody Time or Make Mine Music, I forget which),
they don't have rights to continue animating the character. Perhaps they
only had rights for a certain number of years.

Gramatky went on to do a whole series of Little Toot children's books.

Bongo was part of Fun and Fancy Free. Again, I don't have reference but
I believe that the story was originally by Sinclair Lewis.
___________________________________________________________________
Mark Mayerson Side Effects Software Inc.,
Internet: mayerson at sidefx.com Toronto, Ontario, Canada
(416) 366-4607

Dear Folks,

Mark Semich spoke of the letter column in the new DM: "The best era
for the mouse characters is the 1930's ... [that's when] the definitive (and
best!) forms of all the characters" were used. But Gladstone had
said "something about 'Paul Murray creating the definitive Mickey' or
something like that 'decades after Barks created the definitive
Ducks.'" Well, I agree with you about the 1930s. But...
Gladstone isn't actually implying that Paul Murry's Mickey was
the best. Let me explain. For the first 8 years of WDC&S,
Gottfredson MM stuff was used. But it was dropped then. And NONE of
the Four-Color One Shots, save two, had FG material. And Paul Murry
didn't begin doing stuff regularly until 1953. Until then, a whole
variety of scripters and artists worked on the original comic-book
stories with Mickey that Dell made. What I'm saying is, okay, FG DID
do an excellent range of newspaper stories. But when it came to
COMIC BOOK stories, there was no solid, competitive Mickey team or
single artist as there was Barks for the Ducks. Even Bill Wright
worked with so many scripters that though his work looked the same,
it never felt consistent unless he was also writing the stories
(which didn't always occur). The one-pagers that appear often in DM
are examples of Dell constantly trying to find someone good to do MM
COMIC-BOOK stories (as opposed to NEWSPAPER stories).
What Gladstone was saying is that when a definitive COMIC-BOOK
Mickey did come along -- and like it or not, Murry's Mouse WAS
clearly this 'standard' for everyone but the Italians, at least until
the late 1980s -- it came when Barks had already spent ten years
building Donald (and his own creation, Scrooge) a fan following.
Even if Murry had been as good as Barks or Gottfredson, Barks would
still have had ten years' seniority at molding duck fandom, and thus
the ducks were more popular. As Barks built fandom from 1942-1953,
Mickey readers would have found no consistent style or conception of
Mickey in the MM solo comics. And beginning in 1948 --
cooincidentally, right when Barks hit his golden age -- they wouldn't
have found a consistent Mickey in WDC&S, either. Even though I don't
like to think about it, (A) Murry's MM was THE definitive comic-book MM
for many years, and (B) no matter how good Murry could have gotten,
as a result of Whitman's inability to find any consistent MM creators
prior to 1953, he could never have built an audience for Mickey like
Barks had created already with the ducks.

Whitman could have solved their problems, of course, if they
had continued to use FG material in WDC&S after 1948 -- and perhaps
hired someone who'd once scripted the MM strip to write their MM
comic-book stories. But they decided it was too much work to
reformat FG into comic-book pages after 1948, and they also, it
seemed, looked no further than their own offices when it came to
finding writers for Mickey.

The Italians did everything right. They did not stop using FG
material in 1948, and then, when they began expanding to produce
their own stories in the early 1950s, they found someone who could
mimic him very closely (Scarpa). And this person was so prolific
that when Gottfredson stopped doing the stories, there was merely a
gentle click as Scarpa took EVERYTHING over. And at that same time,
earlier FG stories began to be reprinted, just as CB's work went into
reprints after he retired. The Italians treated Gottfredson as canon
and modelled their own work after his (of course, maintaining some
originality as they did). And Italy is a country where Mickey IS
STILL EVERY BIT AS POPULAR AS THE DUCKS. Any questions?

In my own opinion, that long column from Gary Gabner in DM was
mainly excellent. I see why Gladstone didn't want to resort to Murry
in DM (and I'm glad they didn't, even if an occasional one from him,
as in DM 26, is okay by me). But their decision to use what they
have used up until now is, as far as I'm concerned, a big mistake.
(Not that they could use Scarpa. Believe it or not, the stuff
they used already seem to be the shortest Scarpa stories I've found
here in Europe. Also, the ones they chose are better than the others
I've read here, save one -- ONE with 72 pages, which could never
possibly be used unless MM's own title came back.)
As far as I'm concerned, Gladstone could do well to use some
Egmont MM stories, now that they're being done better than has been
the case up until now. I can understand why they didn't use Egmont
MMs before good ones were available. But now I'm hoping things will
get better.
Egmont is already doing well. I have found many more shops
that sell the Fleetway MM by this time, and they've been selling out
in the last few weeks (which isn't usually the case). On which
issues? The ones that had GOOD MM stories. (And since the British
comics run the MM story FIRST, it's gotta be good if it's gonna
sell...)

David Gerstein
"Ding Dong Bell! Kat Nipp's in the well? And who threw him
in? MICKEY MOUSE! I'll tell th' world!"
<9475609 at arran.sms.ed.ac.uk>

Problems with mail to ifi.uio.no
--------------------------------
I know this should have been sent directly to Per, but since this
could be a problem for other than just me, I'm sending it to the list.
In a resent letter Harry said he had read a story about Mim which I
commented earlier. The strange thing is that this letter (from me) didn't
show up on the newsgroup fa.disney-comics. I checked if I had got a
bounce-mail on that date(31. september), but I hadn't.
According to Harry, David had read another story which I commented.
I haven't seen this letter from David. Neither have I seen the letter
from Dwight, to David, last Monday, which Harry also commented.
The conclusion is, if anyone is wondering, I don't think every letter
sent to disney-comics shows up in the Usenet newsgroup.
So, Per, could you put me on the list?

Jorgen

In an interview with Barks on television done during his European trip
he mentioned "Egg Tooth Rock". Or at least that's what the translator
of that television program into Swedish has said as she asked those in
the know what the name of that rock is in Swedish.

1. Is there really an Egg Tooth Rock anywhere in the Barks canon?
I can't remember it.

2. Maybe Barks really meant something else, like Old Demon Tooth (in
WDC 157). Is that evident on the program? (I think this is the
very program that has aired at least in Norway already, so this is
a question mostly for you Norwegians.)
-- "
Per Starback, Uppsala, Sweden. email: starback at minsk.docs.uu.se
"ANY mountain! Old Demon Tooth, over there--if you're game!"

Fethry from the late sixties
----------------------------
This isn't very informative, but if David is trying to remember
old Fethry stories, I might help him a bit by trying to remember
them myself.
The story David mentions was probably published in Norway
in 68 or 69. I remember the front cover, but I do not remember
if it was at the same issue as the story mentioned.
At this time Fethry was certainly a beatnik in all stories
which featured him. He had longer and thicker hair.
He didn't mean to upset Donald, but he he was always very
enthusiastic about the things he was doing, which often included
Donald. He always goofed up something, and left it to Donald to
fix it. A quite irresponsible person.
He didn't even live in Duckburg all the time, but traveled
around. Donald wasn't too happy when he dropped in.
In one story Fethry wants to get famous quickly. He wants to
be the first one to ride down a big waterfall in a barrel. Donald is
giving him a ride to the forest where the waterfall is, but becomes
very conserned about Fethry when he sees the size of the waterfall.
The forest also have a forest ranger, who doesn't want anyone to
ride down the waterfall. Every time Fethry finds a new barrel,
Donald somehow, by accident, gets into it, and rides down.
In another story, Fethry rents a small house next to Scrooge's
big house. He's driving scrooge nuts when he plays music with a
couple of other beatniks.

Late sixties, early seventies
-----------------------------
Fethry is calming down, and gets shorter hair (if any at all).
Now he seems to live in Duckburg.
In these stories Donald's nephews are often replaced by a
white cat (Mons in Norway). The cat hates Fethry, and tries to
hide every time Fethry pass by.
This "category" of Fethry stories includes the stories where he
and Donald work for Scrooge in the newspaper, and the stories
with that man living alone in the forest (I know he was discussed
here earlier, but I don't remember his English name (no:Jesper
Skaugen)).
Daisy is often a police officer in these stories.
In one story Fethry gets a job as a milkman. Mons, the cat, then
thinks that he maybe isn't that bad after all, and hides in the
van. After Fethry crashes it, he, the cat, reconsiders his opinion
again.

Even if Fethry is not that much of a beatnik anymore, he still
keeps some of his personality in these years. He just seems to
be a bit more adult.
Later in the seventies, and in the early eighties, his
personality is changing into a boring character that just annoys
any other people. He still looks the same, though.
Later in the eighties, and in the early nineties (thats now...)
he doesn't even keep his look. Now he's just a boring character
with no personality, which doesn't even look like the old beatnik.
It's just a boring duck that seems to dress like the beatnik.

The change of personality starts with the first Egmont stories. The
older ones are Studio stories. He still keeps his old personality
for some time into the Egmont era, though.

In Italy there were made a lot of stories with the caracters from
the "newspaper-stories" (this could be an own universe), that is,
Scrooge as the owner of the newspaper, Donald and Fethry as
journalists, Daisy as a police officer, and the white cat as Donald's
family. Fethry usually manages to goof up everything in these stories,
but he's not much of a beatnik anymore.

Jorgen

amm122 at duke.usask.ca wishes to unsubscribe

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@ Allison Marie McPherson @
@ "The problem with some women, @
@ is that they get all excited @
@ over nothing - @
@ and then marry him." @
@ -Cher @
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

Dear Folks,

Jorgen Bangor referred to a story where "Mickey is running a
cafe. One day the famous pirate Peg Leg Pete comes to the place ...
Gyro hires a ship, whose cook is Captain Crook." First, Jorgen, I'm
sorry to draw attention to this but I think you mean Captain Hook.
Then, second, I actually know this story -- just reread it last
month, in fact. It's "Treasure Island A-Yo-Ho", and is a parody of the
book _Treasure Island_. It was made in 1965 as one of a series, "The
Walt Disney Theatre." In this series, famous stories were spoofed
with Disney characters in the leading roles. I am sure that this
series was what inspired, in the 1970s, those Goofy history stories
that Gladstone is running now.
I'm totally stunned to see that all _Treasure Island_
references were removed, though, from the story when it was presented
in Middle Europe! If anything, this WAS one of the better parodies.
But as a sign of the times, Whitman was afraid to make any references to
death or to liquor, so we had Pete singing "Sixteen men on a
blighter's chest -- yo-ho-ho and a motley crew." Or "sixteen men and
a ship fulla fun" (I really didn't like that one!).
Other famous-story parodies in this series included "The Two
Musketeers+1" (reprinted in GOOFY ADVS. #7), "A Lad 'n' His Lamp"
(reprinted in WDC&S #584), "The Swiss Family Mouse 'n' Sons", "Rip
Van Goofy," etc. Characters from the features continuously appeared
in these stories -- most of them were just really awful and, at least
in the American versions, VERY obviously "talking down to child
readers" (as is obvious from the titles, and their constant 'cute'
use of that " 'n' "). No one seems to have any personality. If I'm
going to do a rehash of a famous story with my star character, it
should be (IMHO) appropriate to the character, and the original
things that I add to the plot shouldn't be needless use of
"features" characters like Captain Hook, but little things that
reflect my character's personality shining through the role he's
supposed to be playing. For example, as far as I'm concerned, you
don't get better than Floyd Gottfredson's "Rumplewatt the Giant"
(1934). We have two famous stories -- "Jack and the Beanstalk" and
"Childe Roland" -- mixed together, and the parts of the story that
have been changed, have had those changes made so we can see what
Mickey, with his individual personality, would do in the hero's
situation (often, something different than the hero would do). And
it's all EXPLAINED not as an impossibly lavish PLAY, but as Mickey's
own retelling of the story, as presented to Morty, Ferdie, and a
handful of other neighborhood mice-kids.

> A story which I'm quite sure never will see a reprint in the U.S. is a
> story featuring Goofy and Davy Crocket.
The character you refer to is a character Bill Walsh created
for the MM comic strip (at that point only drawn by FG). He's called
"Li'l Davy" -- I can't even begin to understand why there was a
decision to create a character who was like Davy Crockett, but in
modern times, and a kid. I can't imagine Gottfredson himself would
have created that character if he were writing the strip, too, at
that point.
There were apparently several stories pairing Goofy and Li'l
Davy, because the one you describe isn't the one I remember. In
fact, the one I remember was reprinted by Gladstone, in their
DISNEYLAND BIRTHDAY PARTY special of 1985. I imagine that they
couldn't get away with reprinting that story now. Again, the Indians
are pathetically stupid -- I don't like to see stories banned, but
this one is just unbelievably bigoted... One good pun, though:
Davy: "Watch out, Pardner! Them Indians is hostile!"
Goofy: "'Hoss-tail Indians'! What a yoo-nique name they
picked!"

The story you mentioned with MM and Goofy in with real people
was one of three "MM: Super Secret Agent" stories done in 1965. In
my own opinion, the less said about these, the better, even though
they were an interesting experiment.

Per asked about what Dave Rawson had written for Egmont. Well,
he wrote the lead story in DDA 29 -- "Tour de Jour", which was
published earlier by Egmont in mid-1993 (I don't know in which
issue). I've actually read the original script for this story, and
all those characters on the bus have quite imaginative names, even
when the story's dialogue itself never names them. That crabby
chicken-fellow is named Red O'Ruckus, and I like that name so much, I
might use the character in one of my own Duck stories (if it's okay
with you, Dave). I was planning to include him in my Fethry story,
simply because it seemed to me he'd be the ideal chap for the
"classic" S-code Fethry to drive completely nuts. If you think
Donald has a bad temper, Red O'Ruckus seems to complain about damn
near EVERYTHING. Glad you're on board, Dave! Can you tell us about
some of your Mickey tales?

Jorgen again:
> In one story Fethry wants to get famous quickly. He wants to
> be the first one to ride down a big waterfall in a barrel.
This story is -- ahem -- STOLEN from a 1957 Woody Woodpecker
cartoon film, "Niagara Fools." Same exact situation, with someone
trying to stop Woody (who in his cartoon incarnation isn't so unlike
Fethry) from going over the falls, and that someone keeps falling
over in the barrel, himself. And every time he goes over, the
onlookers in their rainjackets cheer. Perhaps the only good Woody
cartoon to be made after 1952.
I'm guessing that the park ranger in the Donald version is J.
Audubon Woodlore, the same old geezer who appears with Humphrey the
Bear in the cartoons (and a few comics). Always nit-picky about
rules, and with a very good voice in the cartoons. One of the few
highlights of the 1950s Disney cartoons.

The white cat you mention in the Donald-journalist stories is,
I believe, the same cat from WDC&S 65, who appeared again in that Mau
Heymans story about animal imitations a few weeks ago. This cat is
named Tabby in English. Apparently the cat is a regular character,
but only appears once in eons.
And ONE Scrooge-as-newseditor story HAS appeared in the U. S.
-- Disney published it. But it wasn't a typical one, as it was made
by Egmont. It was titled "News Flash" and I believe, appeared in the
first year of DDAD. No Fethry though, just HDL. But I SURE wondered
what Scrooge was doing running a newspaper. I believe that it was
explained by the rewriter (Byron Erickson, I think) that this was
just one of the many businesses Scrooge owned, and that he'd
occasionally spend a while supervising it.

Speaking of alternate universes, next fall Disney offers a
daily TV series titled "Duck Daze." I've mentioned it before, but
now I've heard that Daisy has been completely redesigned for the
series... that the nephews are to be teenagers (imagine them with
their caps worn backwards)... that "Goof Troop" characters may also
appear in the series... No matter how good the writing or animation
is in the series, the concept itself could never have come from
anyone who held the comics in any very high regard. Don Rosa's
mentioned to me that the series will probably come and go as
DuckTales did, but do you notice something? Scrooge and the Beagle
Boys are always depicted now, in Disney Studio merchandise, in their
DuckTales versions, even with that show a thing of the past. And
while this is stretching it a bit, all Chip 'n' Dale items now dress
them as Rescue Rangers, even though that series is also long out of
the spotlight. What I'm worried about is that this show will change
Disney's own concept of Daisy and HDL for good. Sure, they'll always
be their real selves to us. But face it, even with the disrespect
that the comics have in the States, at least people recognize Daisy
and HDL in their traditional appearances. Five years from now, will
people look at a Disney comic and say, "Those aren't the real HDL"?
Disney's idea that the characters really live in Toontown, and
that everything outside of that are only roles they play, REALLY
irritates me in its disrespect for all continuity up until now.

That's all for today... and I think I've nattered on much more
than usual, so I'd better bid you adieu.

David Gerstein
<9475609 at arran.sms.ed.ac.uk>