Keskustelujen arkisto

>Giuseppe wrote:
>> Well, last week I read an announcement in an Italian comics newsgroup.
>> Someone was selling the first 25 numbers of "Zio Paperone", for about 300
>> dollars. Two days later, after getting somebody's advice, he raised the
>> price to little less than 500 dollars.
>I adviced that guy... sorry :)

No need to be sorry, Giuseppe - at least, not for me! I would never pay 300$
for those "Zio Paperone"... It's a matter of principle, you see...

>I'm the first to admit that they are overpriced but it
>is not because of fans (everybody want the first Zio
>Paperone but only a few own them)
I still think it's a wicked combination of over-enthusiastic (and maybe
over-rich, too ;-)) fans, and very shrewd dealers / distributors. And also,
as you say,
> it is a Disney Italia
>error, they should reprint all the old issues of this
>wonderful magazine!

Let's hope some of them is lurking here, then... ;-)

Ciao,
Armando

Anders:
>
> > Finally - about "Alfred": he is the son of Brer Wolf (who no more
> > appears in French comics).
> brer Wolf? You mean the one who was friend with Brer Bear, cause he
> is As far as I know, a fox?

Yes, he is the fox who originally appeared in the Disney "Tales of Uncle
Remus" Sunday Pages.

> It surpirsies me that Big Bad Wolf (Zeke M.(idas) Wolf) is engaged...
> I thought he was so mean that noone would like him, but maybe
> that changed in the french wolf universe too?

Not mean at all. He is more a "good" father (loosing the original USA
comics spirit), though L'il Bad Wolf still is wiser and probably more
intelligent.

Rich again (!) :

> 1) "Les ann=E9es folles de Clarabelle" and importat recurring
> characters like Al Cootest, Hotneige, Redac Chef, and others?

This series is a parody of Al Capone, the Chicago crime boss. Clarabelle
and Horace are journalists in a daily newspaper, in a city which looks
like Chicago in the 30s. No other classical Disney character appear.

Al Cootest is the (fat) chief of a group of gangsters. His look is
consistent, but not his name. Though its first and most recurring name
is "Al Cootest", he sometimes is just "Al Cotest" or "Al Kotest" or even
"Alkotest". His name is obviously a joke on alcootest (the ballon used
by the police to see owhen drivers are drunk, I don't know if this exist
in the USA) and "Al". Al Cootest makes money selling prohibited alcool.

Most of the gangsters do not have names, though some of them have a
consistent look (I think when Cavazzano drew them).
I remember one who has both a recurring name and a consitent look, "Jim
Cocorina" (I guess he's a parody of "Big Jim" Colisimo who really
existed).

Elie [=E9lie] Hotneige is a police inspector (and often needs help of
Clarabelle to catch Al Cootest).

Redac Chef is a name made up by me: he is the editor of the newspaper
Clarabelle is working in. Clarabelle calls him "Redac Chef", but I've
never seen his real name printed.

> 2) A Minnie Mouse series which includes some meteoric named
> characters like Miss Spring, Rayos, General Winter, Dorina,

That's a new Italian series made for "Minni & company". Maybe the
Italians on this list could describe them better than me...

> 3) Ermengarda, Gyro Gearloose's girlfriend. I know of a female
> "Crane-like" birdwoman who appeared in WDC&S #310 in "Gyro
> Gearloose: The Real Cool Canoe." Her name there was "Mathilda",
> and, it would appear that she made another appearance in Dell's
> FC "Daisy Duck's Diary" #948. Tho she wasn't named in the DDD
> appearance, she was part of Daisy "Chit-Chat Society", and the
> unique look of her pony-tail and very large beak makes it hard
> to say her presence is just a coincidence. What does Ermengarda
> look like? Could she and Mathilda be the same?

I don't know this characater (though she did appear in France as well).
But do you know there is another brazilian girlfriend of Gyro (a robot).
I haven't the two stories where she appeared here, unfortunately, so I
can't give you any story-code (for the moment).

Francois

Anders Chr. Sivebaek:
> I read a story once, where the pigs drove around in a car...=20
> I guess they would have to be older than kids to do that..

That's part of the reason I suggest that their age is so obscured,
since driving is a odd thing for a kid, but, since they do care
for themselves, perhaps it is a necessity?

Francois Willot:
Meana's USA debut:
> I think it is in
>
> W MM 90-04 4 PAl LW The Girl Friend
>
> from WDC 611. No appearance listed.

Thanks Francois. I need to look that up, and then submit it
to the INDUCKS database.

> I've found images of Junior, Mina, Molly and a few other characters
> (Marie-Loup is not there though) at the German Disney site:
> http://www.micky-maus.de (click on lexikon then "rund um entenhausen").
>
> These drawings are not from the same author who do the French P'tit Loup
> stories, but look similar enough.

Yes, that did help! Thanks! I would still like to see Marie-Loup and
Alfred Wolf if anyone has scans available.

About Alfred, is it acknowledged in the stories that he and Li'l Bad are
both wolves or does it appear that Alfred is a different sort of animal?

> > 1) "Les annes folles de Clarabelle" and important recurring
> > characters like Al Cootest, Hotneige, Redac Chef, and others?
>
> This series is a parody of Al Capone, the Chicago crime boss. Clarabelle
> and Horace are journalists in a daily newspaper, in a city which looks
> like Chicago in the 30s. No other classical Disney character appear.

Well, this is sure a pleasant surprise! I am glad to see that not
only has Clarabelle and Horace become strong supporting charaters for
Mickey & Minnie, but are now endeavoring on their own adventures,
apart from the gang! :-) Unfortunately, here in the USA, Horace is
still primarily a forgotten character, and Clarabelle ocassionally
sees light as Goofy's girlfriend (as portrayed in a couple of episodes
of the *new* animated series "MouseWorks". We are so far behind the
times! :-(

> > 2) A Minnie Mouse series which includes some meteoric named
> > characters like Miss Spring, Rayos, General Winter, Dorina...
>
> That's a new Italian series made for "Minni & company". Maybe the
> Italians on this list could describe them better than me...

I have a few issues of "Minnie & Company" but I guess that series
hadn't debuted therein yet.

> > 3) Ermengarda, Gyro Gearloose's girlfriend.

> I don't know this characater (though she did appear in France as well).
> But do you know there is another brazilian girlfriend of Gyro (a robot).
> I haven't the two stories where she appeared here, unfortunately, so I
> can't give you any story-code (for the moment).

Sadly, no, I am not familiar with Gyro's robot girlfriend either. :-(

Rich Bellacera

GIORGOS:

>The KOMIX #136 is out on the newstands.
>The cover is a beautiful composition of the Donald oil painting by
>Gottfried Helnwein (although they don't know).
>In the correspondence column there is a long letter of the fellow member
>Anders Sivebaek in which he explains how he first met the KOMIX publication
>in Greece.
> Additionally ,as Don Rosa noticed ,they are going to publish in the very
>next issue his story"Last Sled to Dawson".
> I also noticed that they have raised the prices of the back issues. I
>wonder how they confine the prices of the back issues , even the recent ones
>, and try to present them as very "rare" collectibles.

Hey George, this is *my* column! :-))))

Kidding aside, KOMIX #136 features the following:

1) "A Duck with a Personality", a 3-page editorial on Donald's 65th
anniversary. As sources for the article, KOMIX mentions "Walt Disney Best
Comic Series: Donald Duck" and "The Carl Barks Libray".
2) Barks' "Luck of the North", from DDOS #256, 1949
3) Van Horn's "The Bright Side", AR #131, 1989
4) "The Unknown Albert Haler", a 2-page editorial on a Swiss who worked in
the Disney Studio's story unit during the 1930s and 40s.
5) "A Cheat Date", D-4822, art & story by the Gutenberghus (now Egmont) group.
6) "The Mysterious Phooey Duck", a 2-page editorial on the 4th nephew. KOMIX
mentions as sources for the article Per's site and "The Carl Barks Library".
7) "Lil' Lost Elephant", MMOS #411. Art: Bill Wright, Story: Unknown.
8) "From the Archives of KOMIX", a 1-page editorial on Gus Goose.

Cheers,

Archontis

RICH
> 3) Ermengarda, Gyro Gearloose's girlfriend. I know of a female
> "Crane-like" birdwoman who appeared in WDC&S #310 in "Gyro=20
> Gearloose: The Real Cool Canoe." Her name there was "Mathilda",
> and, it would appear that she made another appearance in Dell's=20
> FC "Daisy Duck's Diary" #948.
I searched for this in my books. I don't have the story,
The story code is os 948-03 I think

Yes, that's the one I have a scan of the splash-panel (I showed it to Ole,
Soeren and Thomas at our meeting way back in easter-time)
I try to remember the story, about the other saying things about Daisy, and
yes, the Crane-like animal is there.

FRANCOIS
> Yes, but this also disapeared. And this is why any reprint of a US,
> Dutch or Danish wolf story is now impossible in "P'tit Loup", "le
> Journal de Mickey" et al.
This is sad, IMHO... making universes that old good stories don't fit into.
why can't they just explain to the kids that there are different versions?
Are kids so stupid they can't understand that??

several versions are of Uncle Scrooge as you know. In new egmont stories,
by Vicar and other normal artists Scrooge lives today and use new things as
computers (he already did in the 60'es... all those splash-panels where he
stands at a huge box...) and the kids have both game-consols and special
bicycles... eg. in the80'es where BMX were popular, HDL of corse had
such... Donald destroyed them btw....
In other Scrooge-stories he lives in the 50'es, as the ones by Don Rosa.
Barks is special I think, I guess he didn't care much of time, in some
stories things are very up-to-date. in some they are too up-to-date like
visits on far-a-way planets and so. And other stories by him use myhology.
Different universes or should I say versions here are necessary IMHO. some
fans wants some stories and others want other stories. some times they have
to make everyone happy, and they earn on it too I guess.

> (Marie-Loup is not there though) at the German Disney site:
I want to see her too... I have a card from a german mag, but it's the same
as those pages say.

HARRY
> Just so people won't misunderstand: Anders wrote:
> > Bottom-line, no stories deserve to be threathen as they have
> > sometimes (not
> > as more now, as before luckily) bean threathen at Egmont and
> > back then at Gutenberghus.
> With "bean threaten", Anders means "been treated". No beans involved
here,
> and no threats... 8-)
Thanks... and I thought I could write english... well, It's because i write
as it sounded, and i shouldn't...

ARCHONTIS

> >The KOMIX #136 is out on the newstands.
> Hey George, this is *my* column! :-))))
I'd say that too.

> 1) "A Duck with a Personality", a 3-page editorial on Donald's 65th
> anniversary. As sources for the article, KOMIX mentions "Walt Disney Best
> Comic Series: Donald Duck" and "The Carl Barks Libray".
Libray? ahem... guess this is another example of french fresh...

HAARRY, where was that Super goof-store you visitted in Greece? I would
like to find it when I come to Greece.

> 2) Barks' "Luck of the North", from DDOS #256, 1949
Great, then I'l have this story 3 times. I have the golden helmet 2
times...

> 6) "The Mysterious Phooey Duck", a 2-page editorial on the 4th nephew.
KOMIX
> mentions as sources for the article Per's site and "The Carl Barks
Library".
I'm looking forward to see this. I talked with a friend about exactly that
the other day... the phoey-thing...

HARRY
> > 6) "The Mysterious Phooey Duck", a 2-page editorial on the
> > 4th nephew. KOMIX
> > mentions as sources for the article Per's site and "The Carl
> > Barks Library".
> Hooray! They learned how to give credits to Internet pages!
I wonder if they learned to spell it correctly... weren't they
the ones who wrote David Gernstein?

Yours AC

Anders:

> HA[A]RRY, where was that Super goof-store you visi[t]ted in
> Greece?

Mykonos.
Will you be visiting that island?

> the phoey-thing...
[...]
> I wonder if they learned to spell it correctly... weren't they
> the ones who wrote David Gernstein?

8-)
Maybe they spell things just as correctly as you do?
(No offence, Anders. I'm just trying to be funny.)

--Harry.

Marco Barlotti wrote:

<<This was meant to be a joke for long-term members of this list. A couple of
years ago I sort of started a "campaign" on the (very bad IMHO)
translations of Don Rosa's stories on "Zio Paperone".
Gross mistakes (like e. g. taking the wrong meaning of the word "compass"
and translating it as the instrument to draw circles when it was obviously
meant to be the instrument to point north...) and large misunderstandings
of Don's dialogues made me speak of an <Evil Translator>. I was trying to
depict an unknown, maybe "superior" being, a sort of Puck if you can see
what I mean, who enjoyed making translations wrong. It was meant as a joke,
against no-one in particular.
But it turned out that the translator was KNOWN to Don and to others (but
not to me). And that she is the kindest ever person to work in the staff of
Walt Disney Italy (I can confirm this fact having afterwards met her!).
This of course had nothing to do with her translations being correct (they
were NOT...) but the term "Evil Translator" was considered too hard and I
was (rightly) scolded for this. I am still very sorry that I was believed
to think of that person as "Evil" (I NEVER did!) so I rather call MYSELF
"Evil" to stress the fact that I can freely joke using this word... I don't
mean myself to be evil, either!!!

(And I'm glad to add that after a few months that person stopped making
translations...)>>

She did? I don't recall hearing about this. Why? By most accounts, aside
from a few mistakes, she didn't do too badly...

Francois Willot wrote:

RICH:

> Ooops! I just did an INDUCKS search on the name "Meana" and came
> up with quite a few stories with her in them... all French of
> course! :-)

And I didn't notice this 2nd mail you wrote either, when I replied to
the first one!

> And now I see the names "Junior" and "Alfred" alongside
> "LW" (Li'l Bad Wolf) so I realize "Junior" is NOT "Li'l Wolf",
> but rather "Li'l Bear" (son of Br'er Bear). Thus, I take it that
> in France there is a regular series of comics produced featuring
> children's tales with Forest Animals sort of an outgrowth of the
> regular "Three Little Pigs"/"Song of the South" serials which
> have traditionally always been a part of Disney comics, right?

Exactly. The first issues of "P'tit Loup" had reprints of comics from
the US (Western comic stories). Soon new stories appeared, with Junior,
Alfred, Mina and L'il Bad Wolf, all of them being in the same classroom.
They are no more in the middle of a forest, but in a very little town (a
forest however is located near that city, as we sometimes see them in
their old universe too). Zeke and Marie-Loup are the only regular adult
characters. Brer Wolf and Brer Bear have have disappeared (as well as
the 3 little pigs).>>

It makes a certain amount of sense that the "Three Little Pigs" and "Song
of the South" characters interact so regularly (much more than either
characters do with, say, Mickey or Donald), because they're both ultimately
traceable to the same source...the tales told by African-American slaves in
the 18th and 19th centuries. Most of them were never written down until
journalist Joel Chandler Harris collected them in 1880 (performing the same
function the Brothers Grimm had with the German oral tradition; saving these
stories for posterity in an era of increasing literacy), and published them
as told by former slave "Uncle Remus." By then the story of the pigs and the
wolf had already passed into general American lore: Uncle Remus tells a
version with five pigs, but in most American versions they've been reduced to
the three of most European fairy tales. (And I've heard that the Disney
studio considered reducing them to two when they made the original cartoon,
but thought better of it...)

I'd always had the impression that these characters lived in the same
forest several other Disney characters (including Mad Madam Mim and Chip 'n'
Dale) did, not far from Duckburg (since they'd SOMETIMES meet the more urban
characters; the Beagle Boys especially used to interact with Mim frequently).
Did Mickey, Minnie, Goofy and that group live in Duckburg? I remember there
was some talk about this a couple of years ago, and the consensus seemed to
be that they were either in Duckburg or the next town (Homeville? Mouseton?)
over.

Anders Chr. Sivebaek wrote:

> Finally - about "Alfred": he is the son of Brer Wolf (who no more
> appears in French comics).
brer Wolf? You mean the one who was friend with Brer Bear, cause he is As
far as I know, a fox?>>

There WAS a Brer Wolf in many of the Uncle Remus stories; in fact, he was
the nemesis of the five pigs in his version of the story. I don't think
Disney used him, though, since they already had the Big Bad Wolf in that
role. In the original story, he ate the other two (or four) pigs, and was
himself killed when the Practical Pig let him fall into the boiling water.
"And that was the end of Brer Wolf," Uncle Remus concluded. "Or at least,
that was the end of THAT Brer Wolf." Intriguingly enough, in the first Li'l
Bad Wolf story (in WDC&S #54, reprinted in Gladstone's WALT DISNEY'S COMICS
DIGEST #1), Zeke retells the story in a more traditional way...though he
clearly wasn't killed himself, only the Practical Pig appears, and he makes
it sound as if he succeeded in eating the other two. Nevertheless, it soon
became clear he hadn't...and it's hardly out of character for Zeke to retell
stories in such a way as to exaggerate his own accomplishments. (The
impression is also that Li'l Wolf was too young to know what happened when
the cartoon events took place, if he was even born at the time...which would
seem to support the argument that the Pigs are some years older than Li'l
Wolf.):

Rich Bellacera wrote:

<<Actually, the one time she appeared in the USA, Meana wasn't Li'l Wolf's
fiancee, per se, but just his girlfriend in the loose sense of the word.
They "like" eachother alot, and are good friends. This was the 'key' to
the original story since she was introduced to Li'l Wolf by his father
in hopes that she would be a *bad* influence. She was shown beating up
her own brothers at first... a real tomboy. But what happened was the
opposite: Li'l Wolf became a *good* influence on her! She decided to
start wearing dresses and acting more like a little girl (because she
liked Li'l Wolf). This frustrated Li'l Wolf's father. (Of course I am
stating this by memory since I cannot find the actual story). I wonder
if this story printed in the US is the same Meana as the Meana in France,
and if this is how she debuted in France as well?>>

Which sounds mostly like some middle-aged (and old-fashioned) writer's
notion of what kids are like. I'd think most real 8-year-old boys would be
much more interested in playing with an active tomboy than with someone who
wore dresses and acted more like a little girl. Unless, of course, she was
perversely acting like that to frustrate Zeke's intentions...

<<I'm also curious about the temperment of Alfred and Junior? Are these
boys *nice* or *mean*? Since they are the sons of two characters who
had a tradition of being mean in the Uncle Remus stories and early
Disney comics.>>

But that to, is an old Disney tradition. So is Li'l Wolf...and, for that
matter, P.J. of GOOF TROOP. (Especially since, over the years, Zeke and Brer
Bear and Brer Fox and even Pete have been somewhat "softened" so they're at
least loving fathers...)

<<Also, along the lines of *age*, I guess I still consider the 3 Little
Pigs as "kids" (barring any evidence otherwise). Also, I began thinking
about Br'er Rabbit & Molly Cottontail? I've rarely, if ever seen them
in a Li'l Wolf story, but it is my impression that Br'er Rabbit (and
Molly) are a lot younger than Br'er Bear and Br'er Fox. What does
everyone else think about the ages of the pigs and the rabbits? It
could just be that they are younger than the Bear & Fox, but not as
young as Li'l Wolf? >>

All of which underscores how truly human the Disney characters are,
despite their animal names, appearances, and sometimes relationships. (While
the denizens of Duckburg and its environs are purely and simply human beings
with fur or feathers...e.g., however much Pete terrorizes or even tries to
kill Mickey, he'd never think of EATING him...Brer Wolf and Brer Fox still
(if decreasingly, and never successfully) behave like the carnivorous
predators they're supposed to be. So one COULD argue that Zeke is indeed
older than Brer Rabbit because wolves live much longer than rabbits...but
that simply doesn't work, since these AREN'T real animals, or even more
realistic Disney animals. (Bambi grew from birth to adulthood in a single
year, like a real stag, but Li'l Wolf is still a young boy at 8, like a human
child.)

But several stories do indeed indicate Brer Rabbit is still a child (or
at least a young teenager) in human terms. One of those reprinted in the WALT
DISNEY DIGEST featuring Brer Rabbit showed him living with his Mammy...who
was not only older but bigger than he was, so it wasn't likely to be a case
of an adult son living with an elderly mother (a much more common arrangement
in the time and place the Uncle Remus stories were recorded than it is
today). (Did Brer Rabbit ever have another name, like Brer Bear? In the
original Uncle Remus stories it was given once or twice as Riley Rabbit, but
I don't think Disney used it.)

<<3) Ermengarda, Gyro Gearloose's girlfriend. I know of a female
"Crane-like" birdwoman who appeared in WDC&S #310 in "Gyro=20
Gearloose: The Real Cool Canoe." Her name there was "Mathilda",
and, it would appear that she made another appearance in Dell's=20
FC "Daisy Duck's Diary" #948. Tho she wasn't named in the DDD
appearance, she was part of Daisy "Chit-Chat Society", and the=20
unique look of her pony-tail and very large beak makes it hard
to say her presence is just a coincidence. What does Ermengarda
look like? Could she and Mathilda be the same?>>

Well, Disney characters tend to date within their own species.
(Clarabelle Cow is the exception there, having been variously involved with
Horace Horsecollar, Goofy, and even Black Pete...but then again, there aren't
too many males of her own species in the Disney stable. The only one I can
think of is Ferdinand the Bull, who's from a different reality (and country)
entirely.) But there's a certain amount of confusion as to what species Gyro
actually belongs to. I got the impression he was a rooster, but somehow I
can't see him and Clara Cluck as a couple (Clara wouldn't work with the other
prominent Disney rooster, Panchito of "The Three Caballeros," either...it
makes one wish Disney HAD gone ahead with the Chanticleer movie it once
considered), so I suppose Ermengarda was inevitable. What did she look like?
Did she ever appear in an American comic?

<<> Also, along the lines of *age*, I guess I still consider the 3 Little
> Pigs as "kids" (barring any evidence otherwise).

I think so too. Practical possibly is older than Fiddler and Fifer.
But they could be considered as mature kids, like Donald's nephews.>>

That's certainly what they seemed to be in the original folk tale.
Practical was the youngest son in traditional tellings of the story, again,
paralleling the European fairy tales where the youngest son succeeded where
his elder brothers failed. This originated as a practice intended to make the
hero an underdog (eldest sons, in the age of entailed estates, had most of
the advantages at that place and time), but is completely irrelevant to the
Pigs' milieu, so Practical in the Disney version most assuredly comes off as
the eldest of the three. A younger, even if cleverer, sibling would have had
a much different relationship with the others (as seen in Sheldon Mayer's DC
title THE THREE MOUSEKETEERS, in which the youngest but cleverest
Mouseketeer, Minus, is more of a mischief-maker).

<<This series is a parody of Al Capone, the Chicago crime boss. Clarabelle
and Horace are journalists in a daily newspaper, in a city which looks
like Chicago in the 30s. No other classical Disney character appear.

Al Cootest is the (fat) chief of a group of gangsters. His look is
consistent, but not his name. Though its first and most recurring name
is "Al Cootest", he sometimes is just "Al Cotest" or "Al Kotest" or even
"Alkotest". His name is obviously a joke on alcootest (the ballon used
by the police to see owhen drivers are drunk, I don't know if this exist
in the USA) and "Al". Al Cootest makes money selling prohibited alcool.>>

Yes, the test exists here. It's called a Breathalyzer, which regrettably
wouldn't sound anything like Al Capone's name.

Most of the gangsters do not have names, though some of them have a
consistent look (I think when Cavazzano drew them).
I remember one who has both a recurring name and a consitent look, "Jim
Cocorina" (I guess he's a parody of "Big Jim" Colisimo who really
existed).

Elie [=E9lie] Hotneige is a police inspector (and often needs help of
Clarabelle to catch Al Cootest).>>

Probably a parody of Eliot Ness, the Federal agent who eventually
captured Capone (and immortalized in the American TV series "The
Untouchables").

A lot of interesting stuff this time!

Rich Morrissey