Keskustelujen arkisto

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Topic: 200208

(201 messages)
Anders Christian Sivebaek
Hi all

My two cents to the discussions

I agree with what Mattias said in the last digest - donaldists might
actually be the least fans of Rosa - as they can see the many barks
references and maybe claim different things (that I wouldn't agree with
but perhaps understand).
The new readers like Rosas stories, I'm sure - a reader can tell what
effort Don and others too put into their stories and they like that.
The young readers like detailed stories (I know I did) - and it might
even make them try to find these stories that the Rosa-stories
obviously refer to.

according to the album/book discussion - why not both? albums or the
normal weekly size with 100 pages ( like the norwegian and swedish
"meet old friends again") for the younger readers who can't afford the
books - and for insane completists like myself who would just buy and
read too.
and then hard cover books for the more money-strong (?) or older fans -
and too for insane completists like myself. And I would probably also
buy extra copies of both for some not quite as insane completists I
know on the planet :-)
No offense ment.

A. C. Sivebaek
acsive at mail.mira.dk
Gerd Syllwasschy
acsive:

> The new readers like Rosas stories, I'm sure - a reader can tell what
> effort Don and others too put into their stories and they like that.
> The young readers like detailed stories (I know I did) - and it might
> even make them try to find these stories that the Rosa-stories
> obviously refer to.

Indeed, market research for the German weekly has repeatedly shown that
Don Rosa's stories are among the most popular ones. And the readership
consists mainly of boys at the age of 8 to 12 years, I believe.

It is interesting to note, by the way, that Don's more historically
oriented stories (e.g., the Lo$ series) seem to be be less popular with
young readers than the "pure" gag or adventure stories.

Gerd
Oyvind J. Karstad
Per Martinson wrote:
>Maybe I was a bit too hard, but the point is,
>I dont think Don Rosa makes great comics,
>and I think that his work is most appreciated
>in donaldist circles.

I would say you're totally wrong.
My impression is that a lot of people,
who otherwise would think Donald Duck is just a children-comic,
have read some Don Rosa-stories, and think they are excellent.
An example, based (more or less) on a true story:
At high school i could sit in lunch break reading Donald.
Then somebody would ask: "Are you reading *Donald Duck*?"
And I would respond: "It's a Don Rosa-story. Have you heard of him?"
Then the response would either be "Err... I'm not sure",
or *very* probably "Don Rosa? He's great! Can I read that after you?" :-)
This is the reason that Egmont puts Don Rosa's name
on the cover when they print one of his stories,
because a lot of people will buy the comic only to read that story.

?yvind
Sue And Gary Leach
In the discussions of the storytelling merits of Don Rosa over other Disney
creators, such as William Van Horn and Marco Rota, the topic of popularity
as a gauge of quality was ventured, but not pursued.

Popularity, of course, is no gauge of quality. TV ratings battles here in
the States make that glaringly obvious. Painfully so, at times. Book
bestseller lists have always been rife with crap, and junk food is eagerly
consumed in staggering quantities.

As a rule of thumb, quality tells only after popularity has faded. I believe
Don Rosa's work will acquit itself well in this respect, but it is nice that
he's enjoying some popularity now (though sadly not here in the States).
Does his work deserve it? No question in my mind that it does, and I know
that goes for a lot of other folks on this mailing list. But not everyone,
by any means. We will, each of us, appreciate what we will, and that is
something else popularity cannot gauge.

Gary
Shelley Hanson
The 1933 Double Eagle, a U.S. gold coin, has been auctioned for $7,590,020.
(I like the twenty dollars added -- not just $7,590,000.) It is the only
legal gold dollar from 1933, other than the two that are on display in the
Smithsonian Institution.

Here is the link for a good story on it:
http://www.startribune.com/stories/561/3132154.html

This is very reminiscent of Scrooge cornering the market on a U.S. quarter.
However, in this case, there was someone other than Scrooge who was wealthy
enough to purchase it!
Søren Krarup Olesen
PER + ?YVIND + SIGVALD:

> [...] but I've only wanted to express my own opinion, and to show
> that Don Rosa's position, as it sometimes feels, as "the master of
> the ducks", not is a matter of course for all of us.

And I fully second your opinion on this, Per. People in here sometimes
seem to take it very personal, if someone dares to question the
"landmarks" of Don. This is why we have replies from (in this case)
?yvind, who wrote the last part:

>> He is a good donaldist, but he doesn't write anything really new
>> and innovative, he only uses things that Barks created.

> [sigh] Not *again*...?

What do you mean "not again"? Is this an opinion you do not wish to hear
or does it offend you in any sense? Did I miss some kind of natural law
telling me or anyone else never to critisize (or give critics to) art
and stories etc.

At some point Sigvald wrote:

> But at least he [Don] doesn't comes up will ridiculous stuff like in
> Marco Rota's story about Donald's life when Donald comes out of an
> egg laid by an ordinary wild-duck in a nest which is blown down from
> a tree during a storm.

You know, Sigvald. When I read this story I found it to be a little tiny
piece of poetry of how things might have happened. The story itself is
both cute and nicely drawn. I don't see, how anyone can object to such a
story by calling it ridiculous--by doing so you suggest to erase all
kinds of imaginary stories that don't fit into your mind and ideas of
"the true (hi)story". That's a pity IMHO. I have no idea of how Donald
was born or who his parents were, and to be honest with you I don't
really care or to be more exact; I am not sure I'd like to know...ever!
I basically care about the story!

Putting everything into small boxes and put them on the right shelf
might not necessarily do the Disney comics "universe" any good. Strict
systems are boring when forced upon artistic items as comics, novels,
paintings, sculptures, you name it.

Is Scrooge's money bin placed on a hill? Heck, I dunno, sometimes it is,
sometimes it isn't. Frankly, I've read many stories where it wasn't,
many stories that were much better and more intelligent (and let's not
forget entertaining) than if in fact it was.

S?ren
Fernando Ventura
Sorry for this late...thanks! ;-)

>In the last page there are three panels (without balloons) and an
>illustration of a wall with five photographs showing happy moments in
Lilo's
>family. Check your comic.

Yes! That's the same story!

I think "Artist Optimization" is the adaptation of the film graphic design
to the comic book. It's visible that the color wasn't made in watercolors as
on the movie, but it's probably made on Painter?, triyng to bring the same
organic quality...and I think they've got a nice point on it!

Fernando!
Ari Seppi
S?ren:
>And I fully second your opinion on this, Per. People in here sometimes
>seem to take it very personal, if someone dares to question the
>"landmarks" of Don.

Yes, some people are too fanatic, either in loving or in hating Don
and his work. (Sometimes they can even be funny as readers of
a Finnish comics newsgroup know, but that is beside the point.)
I didn't take ?yvind for one, I assumed that his sigh was about
the fight that might start once again and not about Per's opinions.

You are also right about that we need lots of different artist with
different styles.

Per:
>My utterance about Rosa's popularity outside of donaldist cicles, is only
>based on my own feelings, when discussing duck-comics with less familiar
>duck-reading friends, and they do not seem to appreciate the storeis as
>anything special, it's his drawings that are special, and those haven't been
>discussed at all here.

Well, jokes are a part of a story, some of Don's stories are very
funny, and you don't have to be a donaldist to understand the jokes.
By the way, do your friends appreciate, for example, Van Horn
stories as something special, then? Or is it that they think that
no one is anything special?

>For example, he is the only artist (except of
>Barks) that are mentioned as anything special in the Donald Duck-magazines,
>when there really is plenty good artists.

Really? Do you mean that they are the only artists mentioned
in covers or that there are no articles, news items or anything
about other artists? If it's the latter I have to say: Huh! I think
that is very strange.

--
Ari Seppi (ari.seppi at iki.fi)
http://www.iki.fi/mani/
Winnie the Pooh is my great guru.
Oyvind J. Karstad
S?ren wrote:
>What do you mean "not again"? Is this an opinion you
>do not wish to hear or does it offend you in any sense?
>Did I miss some kind of natural law telling me or anyone
>else never to critisize (or give critics to) art and stories etc.

I admit I didn't make myself clear at all in my original mail.
My apologies.

I was referring to his argument, and to the fact (or my impression)
that this same argument seems to pop up every time somebody
for some reason want to state that they don't like Don Rosa's stories.

Quoting Per Martinson:
>He is a good donaldist, but he doesn't write anything
>really new and innovative, he only uses things that
>Barks created.

I'm tired of this argument, that doesn't seem to make sense at all.
Of course Don Rosa is writing all his stories.
None of Rosa's plots can be recognised as "taken" directly from Barks stories,
(at least no more than Vicar and others use certain "standard-stories" again and again,
for example those with Donald as an expert in some profession).
More than that, one of the main reasons that I like Rosa's stories,
is that they are so *innovative*, besides intelligent and often hilarious.
Stories like "His Majesty, McDuck", "The Island at the Edge of Time",
"War of the Wendigo", "Hearts of the Yukon" and "The Black Knight"
just to name a few examples, all add totally new dimensions to the Duck universe.

That Don Rosa chooses to use a Barks-inspired "framework",
doesn't confine his creative prosess at all.
In a way it was very *innovative* of him to get up with the idea
of such a "framework", based on his own view of the Barks universe.

Martinson also wrote that "other writers should get more space".
This is another argument I marvel at.
What "space" is there that Don Rosa occupies,
that could have been given to other writers?
Currently he's only producing three or four stories a year.
We have seen very few reprints of Rosa stories in Scandinavia.
But Egmont are reprinting a lot of Vicar and Branca stories from the 80's.

Of course, I'm not offended by anyone stating that they don't like Rosa's stories.
I'm not even offended by Per Martinson's suggestion,
that because he doesn't like Rosa's stories, Rosa should stop making them.
I do think that it's a silly statement, but I'm not offended.

And if you're offended by any of the above written,
I probably haven't managed to express myself properly this time either...
:-)

?yvind
Per Martinson
?yvind J. Karstad wrote:

> Martinson also wrote that "other writers should get more space".
> This is another argument I marvel at.
> What "space" is there that Don Rosa occupies,
> that could have been given to other writers?
> Currently he's only producing three or four stories a year.
> We have seen very few reprints of Rosa stories in Scandinavia.
> But Egmont are reprinting a lot of Vicar and Branca stories from the 80's.

The space I meant wasn't in first place the space in the magazines, but
outside them, for example the possibilities to to be published in books and
albums.

Ari Seppi wrote:

> Really? Do you mean that they are the only artists mentioned
> in covers or that there are no articles, news items or anything
> about other artists? If it's the latter I have to say: Huh! I think
> that is very strange.

Of course the artists of every comic is written out, but the only things
mentioned on covers, next nuber-pages and things like that is Barks or Rosa,
it's like they are the only artists that are important.

Per Martinson
SRoweCanoe
In a message dated 8/2/2002 1:34:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
per.martinson at home.se writes:

> Of course the artists of every comic is written out, but the only things
> mentioned on covers, next nuber-pages and things like that is Barks or
> Rosa,
> it's like they are the only artists that are important.
>

Then, apparently they have determined that sales go up with Barks or Rosa
mentioned on the cover....

sr
Per Martinson
>>Of course the artists of every comic is written out, but the only things
>>mentioned on covers, next nuber-pages and things like that is Barks or Rosa,
>>it's like they are the only artists that are important.

>Then, apparently they have determined that sales go up with Barks or Rosa mentioned on the cover....

Probalby you are right, but does it mean they cannot mention anyone other?

Per Martinson
Roy Kooijman
>>Then, apparently they have determined that sales go up with Barks or
Rosa mentioned on the cover....
>Probalby you are right, but does it mean they cannot mention anyone
other?
Well they usually put the name Walt Disney on the cover ;-)

-- Roy
Petri Kanninen
PER MARTINSON:
>Of course the artists of every comic is written out, but the only things
>mentioned on covers, next nuber-pages and things like that is Barks or
>Rosa, it's like they are the only artists that are important.

Actually, a few weeks back Marco Rota had his name on the cover of the
Finnish weekly. I was quite surprised to see it there. And Vicar got his
name on the cover when he visited Finland. Not much compared to Rosa but
it's a start. I think the reason why Rosa's name is so often on the cover
is that there are some people who only buy the weekly when there is
something made by Rosa inside.

--
Petri Kanninen (pkannine at cc.hut.fi)
Aku Ankan taskukirja -tietokanta: http:/www.perunamaa.net/taskarit/

"Ei ole en?? muotia kuolla syd?men rasvoittumiseen p?yd?n ??ress?, vaan
pururadalla." -Kroisos Pennonen, taskari 54
Ari Seppi
Petri:
>Actually, a few weeks back Marco Rota had his name on the cover of the
>Finnish weekly. I was quite surprised to see it there. And Vicar got his
>name on the cover when he visited Finland. Not much compared to Rosa but
>it's a start.

Yes, and Romano Scarpa was in cover of the issue reporting that
he was supposed to visit in Finland. There has also been article
series about other artist (only five items have been published, but
that is a start too). And there was an extra issue consisting of
Manuel Gonzales' one-pager which naturally had him mentioned
on cover.

Actually I was surprised how few articles and news items I found
about other artists when I browsed through some recent Aku
Ankka issues. I remembered that there are more of them. Well,
on the other hand, there is no Rosa in every issue either.

--
Ari Seppi (ari.seppi at iki.fi)
http://www.iki.fi/mani/
Winnie the Pooh is my great guru.
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