Keskustelujen arkisto

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Author

Topic: 200312

(236 messages)
Ari Seppi
Harry:
>Dani?l:
> >>> Can you also add the missing issue codes to the COA interface?
> >> I think there's no need to bother the COA user with
> >> codes like that.
> > I *am* a COA user, and I *want* to be bothered with it.
>I think that's because you are not only a COA user, but also an indexer.
>Or is there another reason that a COA user would want to know the internal
>codes that were meant for indexers only?

I kind of agree with Harry. Even as an indexer I've only needed issue
codes on the page listing all the publications in one country. And if
you need the issue code you can find it from the link URL. On the
other hand adding new information can confuse a newbie user.

--
Ari Seppi (ari.seppi at iki.fi)
http://www.iki.fi/mani/
Daniel Van Eijmeren
STEFAN PERSSON to me, 18-12-2003:

>> No. The comment doesn't say that the changes are the very same.
>> The characters could have been removed in different ways.

> Different ways? Someone using a knife, someone else giving part
> of the tree to his dog, and a third one using a computer program
> to remove the sidebar with DA, AMJ, GY & HLP as mentioned in the
> changes field?

I was told that "In WDC 600, the version without sidebar was used
(as you can see on COA)."

All I can see is that *a version* without sidebar was used. And yes,
if you ask different people to do the same job, you can get unexpected
differences. Even if they've done basically the same task. Barks's
'Three Good Little Ducks' (W FGW 47-01) is an example of that. The
retouching in the 'Carl Barks Library' and the 'Carl Barks Library in
Color' is different. See panel 3.8.

HARRY FLUKS to me, 18-12-2003:

>>> [issue codes] I think there's no need to bother the COA user
>>> with codes like that.

>> I *am* a COA user, and I *want* to be bothered with it.

> I think that's because you are not only a COA user, but also an
> indexer. Or is there another reason that a COA user would want
> to know the internal codes that were meant for indexers only?

A lot of stories codes are internal codes, too. At Per Starbäck's
Inducks site, the issue codes have been mentioned as long as I
remember. See, for example:
http://stp.ling.uu.se/cgi-bin/starback/dcml/story?W+US+4-00

I didn't find that confusing at all. Not even as a newby. (This
refers to Ari Seppi's email about this subject.) Instead, I found
the issue codes very handy. And it's easier to refer people to a
code than to a title, which can be spelled in different ways.
Titles usually are a lot longer than a code. And a lot of titles
are basically the same.

>>> Debates are not as important as their results.

> But I already told you the result:
> H> For practical reasons, we decided in Inducks to call the version
> H> with sidebar "original", and the other one "changed".

> If you want to know the exact "practical reasons" and our discussions,
> I can dig out the archives for you.

I hope you notice that I'm not talking about the Family Tree alone. I'm
also refering to the stories which were reconstructed, redrawn, remade,
revisited, etc., by the original artist or other artists.

>>>> "takes" "mixes" "overdubs"

>>> I don't know what these technical
>>> terms mean. But I also think I don't need to know.

>> "I don't understand your hours of typing and thinking,
>> but what do I care?"

> That's not what I intend to say.
> You're using a metaphor to explain something.

Metaphor is a very big word. I'm just borrowing some terms from
sound/video recording because there are no comic book equivalents
for them. Why do you reject my *whole* explanation because of such
tiny details? I find it very frustrating, almost comparable with
bureaucracy, if I may use a real metaphor.

> I don't understand the metaphor at all (and I'm not interested in
> the things described by that metaphor).

You don't need to be interested in sound/video. That's not important
at all. I was just talking about comics, using real comic book stories
as examples.

But there we go again, discussing discussions again. It happens too
often which I publicly try to discuss Inducks matters. And that's
why I rarely raise such subjects. Even when mentioning mistakes or
omissions in Inducks, I have to beg and plea to get it through. That's
why I often phone you. I can stay relaxed with a cup of tea, relieving
my RSI complaints, instead of getting more and more RSI. And I only
have RSI complaints when I'm stressed. It's so frustrating when hours
of typing are being blocked, just because my terminology should be just
a slightly teeny-weeny litlle bit different. And sometimes I think it's
obvious that people are only giving such criticism, because they're not
really interested in the matter. And when I get a few general, hurried
sentences back, it's even *more* frustrating.

> Then there's no use in explaining the metaphor to me; better
> concentrate on the original subject.

I *am* concentrating on the subject. It seems to me that you just want
to have a perfect match of communication, without having to do effort to
get what I mean. Basically you just ask me to type it all over again,
while you just could have *asked* what I meant with those three terms.
That's all.

take = period in which an artist is creating a story or story segment
mix = the story as a whole, built up from one or more "takes"
overdub = changes made by an artist after a "take" or "mix" is made

It's debatable if these terms exactly match with the way they are
used when recording audio/video. But again, that's not the point.
I'm using these terms, just to have names for what I'm trying to say.
And if you (or anyone else) think there are better terms, just let
me know. Then we can agree on that. Those terms are just tools,
nothing more.

>>> Inducks has some minor flaws for people who want *very* exact
>>> information about Barks or Rosa creations.

>> And since Rosa is making multiple versions of stories, these instances
>> are not just a few exceptions anymore.

> Well actually, they still are. Rosa is making a dozen stories a year
> (if we're lucky). In the total producktion of several hundreds of
> stories per year, these Rosa stories are still exceptions.

Isn't there a rule that says that using statistics is a very easy way
to turn the truth into any direction one wishes?

If there are - let's say - only twenty stories which are "exceptions",
I wouldn't call them exceptions anymore. Even less with artists like
Barks and Rosa. They belong to the most popular Disney comics creators,
so there's a bigger chance that people will see such "exceptions". This
should also be taken into account when making statistics of exceptional
situations.

>> What art does an editor need [...]

> Note that Inducks was not primarily meant for editors.

You're using the past tense. Through the years Inducks has become very
important for editors. They even contribute to it, by giving information,
etc. So, I don't think it makes sense to say that they haven't been very
important long ago.

> The fact that they can use it is a very good thing, but editors
> should not *rely* on Inducks data, but always double-check.

"Double-checking" can only be done if Inducks gives the information.
Otherwise it wouldn't be double-checking, but just checking. In other
words, if Inducks doesn't give the information, people will have to
find *two* other sources, which do provide the information, if they
want to be able to "double-check" the Inducks-information.

But COA is also visited by fans who want to know what exactly has been
published in Disney comics. (Do they need issue "A" because it contains
extra art, or is that story the very same version as in issue "B"?)
So, this subject certainly isn't limited to editors only.

>> And what about the new art that Jippes and Rosa made for those two
>> stories? It's very nice that they've created that new work, but it
>> muddies the water even further. And COA doesn't provide any clue.

> Yes, we should add more "clues" in Inducks in some specific cases.

I think it would be better if an index provides *answers*.

> (Like you and I have already been doing during our phone calls.)

Those are individual cases.

--- Daniël

P.S. This email cost me about 100 minutes of typing...
Daniel Van Eijmeren
I wrote:
"It happens too often which I publicly try to discuss Inducks matters."

I meant:
"It happens too often *when* I publicly try to discuss Inducks matters."

--- Dani?l

"Yikes! How can anything that stuffs itself with HAY be so HARD?"
Which Barks story? :-) Hint #1: cowboys
H.W.Fluks
Dani?l:

> But there we go again, discussing discussions again. It happens too
> often when I publicly try to discuss Inducks matters.

Then ignore my opinion for a moment, at let's see what others (non-Inducks people) think about the subjects that you raised.

> And when I get a few general, hurried
> sentences back, it's even *more* frustrating.

My messages may seem hurried, but they are not. They are short, yes. That's because with every sentence I try to take into account the relevance for a DCML audience. I often delete sentences from my mails after having spent minutes to write them.

--Harry.
("Schrijven is schrappen.")
Jehan Hasan
Dear all,

Will you kindly let me know what you know about (1) Disney in-house
guidelines concerning Disney comics and (2) the position of Disney comics
vis-à-vis the Comics Code Authority (CCA)? I know that Disney comics did not
need to have the CCA logo when they were published. Will you please tell me
what else you know about this issue?

Kind regards,
Jehan Zitawi

_________________________________________________________________
Stay in touch with absent friends - get MSN Messenger
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Olaf Solstrand
As I'm too lazy to dig up the e-mailaddress for whoever's maintaining COA,
I'm asking here and now.

What is wrong with the character names there?

When viewing what is supposed to be English, _Danish_ names are shown.
When viewing what is supposed to be Danish, German or Dutch (I'm not sure)
names are shown.
When viewing what is supposed to be Norwegian, Swedish names are shown.
And when viewing what is supposed to be Swedish, the character names are
replaced with numbers (e.g. in AR 102 by Don Rosa, the hero is "18033" and
all appearing characters are "59951", "14244", "161" and "18033".)

Something is not the way it's supposed to be.

--
Olaf Solstrand

Telefon: 957 08 325
E-post: olaf at andebyonline.com
Heimeside: http://www.andebyonline.com/olaf/
Ari Seppi
Olaf:
>As I'm too lazy to dig up the e-mailaddress for whoever's maintaining COA,
>I'm asking here and now.
>What is wrong with the character names there?

Don't know, I'm working on it however and hopefully get it fixed soon.

--
Ari Seppi (ari.seppi at iki.fi)
http://www.iki.fi/mani/
Stefan Persson
Olaf Solstrand wrote:
> What is wrong with the character names there?

There's some mess with the database fields, so that data is stored in
the wrong field. This has already been pointed out at the indexers'
mailing list, but not at DCML.

Harry's DIZNI program also collects some statistics about the
characters, so the Swedish numbers are probably some of those.

Stefan
Daniel Van Eijmeren
HARRY FLUKS to me, 19-12-2003:

>> But there we go again, discussing discussions again. It happens too
>> often when I publicly try to discuss Inducks matters.

> Then ignore my opinion for a moment, at let's see what others
> (non-Inducks people) think about the subjects that you raised.

I'd be very surprised if it interests anyone. Inducks-people or
non-Inducks people. I've been spending hours to write those emails,
and so far no one commented to the ideas themselves. Not even to ask
what I meant. I could have made my own Barks database twice as big,
twice as good, and twice as structured, if I wouldn't have wasted
my time with emails like these.

And what am I writing them for? And why?

As long as you're willing to help me create and design my own database
system, I'm as happy as can be. And so, I'll concentrate on that.

--- Dani?l

"Boy! Do we need lessons on how to keep our noses out of other people's
business!" Which Barks story? :-)
Olaf Solstrand
I see in INDUCKS that D 2000-017, "Troubled Trackers", is printed in WDC
#639.
I was wondering: Is this the first "I-Team" story printed in the USA?

Olaf
Daniel Van Eijmeren
I wrote:
"I could have made my own Barks database twice as big, twice as good,
and twice as structured, if I wouldn't have wasted my time with emails
like these."

With "emails like these", I mean emails in which I'm trying to change
the world by contributing emails to mailing lists. Not just emails
about Inducks alone.

It happens too often that I turn on my computer to do some consistent
working on my website, when just before I do that, I decide to check my
email, and before I know it, it's hours later and I still haven't done
anything for my site.

I should reserve my email time for the "coffee breaks", if I ever want
to learn how to create things in a structured and disciplined way. At
this moment, it has been the opposite much too often.

--- Dani?l
Stefan Persson
Olaf Solstrand wrote:
> I see in INDUCKS that D 2000-017, "Troubled Trackers", is printed in WDC
> #639.
> I was wondering: Is this the first "I-Team" story printed in the USA?

Yes.

Stefan
Olivier
Hello everyone!

No time to read this past week. Hee's trying to catch up...

Cord:

>>> Walt's nephew Roy Disney has launched a website devoted to discussion
>>> about the fututure of The Walt Disney Company:
>>> http://www.savedisney.com

Mighty interesting. Thanks for the link! A chance to write Roy himself.
Guess what I'm going to suggest? ;)

Scrooge through Barks through Dani?l:
>>>"I get it!... I'm DECEASED -- and what's running around here thinkin'
>>>it's ME is my GHOST!"

Very very easy, but when you haven't been able to guess the answer to a quiz
for days, you'll jump to answer anything easy :b :
"House of Haunts" (U$ 63, May '66) , p 12 panel 7
I'll have to read it again.
Oh darn, Timo's answered it already. Let's say I don't remember seeing any
answer. ;)

Dani?l:
>>>It happens too often that I turn on my computer to do some consistent
>>>working on my website

I don't remember having an address to a web site of yours. Could you link
to it, please?

Olivier
Mateusz Lis
Hi all!

There is yet another version of Rosa's Duck family tree - with MIM, BB and
MDS added on the right side of the tree. This strange version is the only
one published in Poland so far (with stickers, BTW).

Best wishes,
Mateusz Lis
Mateusz Lis
Hi all,
I just read on a Polish website about comics that Rick Friedberg (Spy Hard)
will make a movie based on a comic book "Lance Barnes Post Nuke Dick"
written by Stefan Petrucha, who will wrote a script for this movie. This
was quite a suprise for me - I didn't know that he was a known writer
before he start working for Disney. Does anyone can tell me much about his
non-disney work? When did he start working for Disney? Why did he choose
Disney? Is (or was) he a Disney fan?

Best wishes,
Mateusz Lis
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