Keskustelujen arkisto

KRITON:
Mentioning that placement of the Eisner Award into $crooge's trophy
collection is a good example of stepping outside of the reality of the
story, and I plead guilty, but I thought it was a good enough gag to be
worth it. But this was not a self-reference. My name appeared nowhere on
that plaque and I am not the "winner" of that award. The award went to the
story itself... it while I did write and draw it, the winner of that award
also includes Byron Erickson, Egmont Publishing and Gladstone Comics... as
well as $crooge. I do happen to HAVE the plaque here in MY studio, and let's
just see Byron or Bruce Hamilton or Mr. Egmont try to get it. Nyaah. But,
anyway, that wasn't a self-reference -- and I don't care for self-promotion
in the least... so I rather dislike someone making it look like I do. But as
I said, that wasn't the translator's intention... they just thought ofnit as
a gag and since he/she isn't ME, the danger of it looking like
self-promotion probably never occured to her. An innocent mistake.

DANIEL v.E. & DANIEL K.:
Dan #1 is answering an old question of Dan #2's that I failed to address.
Sorry. In U$ #300, they printed a drawing of mine titled "Anything But
Those" which shows a McDuck trophy collection which contains several items
he does not have but which were featured in one or more of his stories. The
trophy collection also contains artifacts from some of MY stories, which (as
it is included in the idea of self-promotion discussed above) is something I
would never show in $crooge's trophy collection. (No, the Eisner Award is
not shown in "Lo$" because it had appeared in a previous $crooge story.)
This was a picture done for another party several years ago, and the
contents were ALL dictated by that party. I simply sent Gladstone a xerox of
it years ago as a gift to see if they had a use for it in an ad or
something... I never expected they might put it in the centerspread of a
comic. The exact same situation applies to that drawing of mine in the new
DD #300 -- that was a cover I did 2-3 years ago for a German magazine, which
I sent Gladstone a xerox of, again for any use they cared to make of it.

DANIEL K. all by himself:
Nay, there's nothing wrong in someone trying to point out what they think
are errors in a story, especially in one of my stories when I'm trying NOT
to commit scientific innaccuracies. It's one thing when I give a flimsy
reason why that shaft through magma would not collapse -- that's fantasy.
But if I had said that the earth's molten core extended up to the crust, or
that there was super-gravity at the earth's core, or that the distance to
the center was 537 miles... that's error. There is never any reason for that
in a story. You site Barks' "Island in the Sky" where the Ducks rocket to
the Asteroid Belt in a short time... that's not possible unless they had
some sort of unheard of sorta spaceship, but that's okay because that's
fantasy. However, in that same story, I believe (check me on this) it is
stated that the Asteroid Belt is a specific distance from the earth, and
that distance is hundreds of millions of miles incorrect -- Barks seems to
have used the distance that the Belt is from the sun rather than the earth,
if I recall -- that's an error. And I make plenty of 'em and when I do I
want them pointed out to me. I made a whopper in "Guardians of the Lost
Library" where I had Marco Polo doing something 50 years before he was born.
A reader in Sweden spotted it and I went to a great deal of trouble to
correct that needless goof... just this week I sent another set of corrected
pages for that story off, at my own expense, to correct a 1997 German album
reprinting of that adventure. These Duck stories get reprinted from here to
that Asteroid Belt and I sure do want to correct my errors before the next
entire country or alien society sees me look stupid, and I beg people to
point my screw-ups out to me!
But thanks for thinking you were pulling people off my back. You're very nice.

Why is there still so much debate over whether the Ducks are funny animals or
not. While many people, including me, love Barks' ducks so much that we
consider them real, they are fictional characters nonetheless. All fiction is
left open to many interpretaions, with not one being totally right or totally
wrong. Some interpretaions can be more valid than others. In this case
though, I think Don Rosa's opinion is the more valid of the two. He is the
highest authority on Duck stories today, by virtue of his expertise on Barks
*and* his own stories. All one has to do is lok at Lo$ or the Duck family tree
to get just a small sampling of how well he understands Barks' world. It seems
only logical to trust his logic here too.
GARY:
You said that "Pluto saves the ship" would make a good album. My question is
though, what album. Right now you're only publishing $crooge, right? are you
going to insert the story in one of those albums, or are there other (gasp)
albums in the works?
KRITON:
This Ducktales story with Flinty threatening to foreclose on Barks farm seems
interseting. It seems that Ducktales always went out of it's way to avoid
givng credit to Barks. Here they mention him! what story is this anyway?
DANIEL:
And you have a great first name too. I'm not too keen on "horsing" either. I
hope the new story will be better. Hey, even if it's not, it's still amazing
how Barks is turning out new stories. Is there any new news on this project.
HARLD:
You'd think crossovers or cross-breeds would have stopped in America, when
Gladstone took over, and disney comics became less commercial. Imagine how
disturbed I was to see Goofy in "Too Late For Christmas"

HARALD:

Right about the Evil translator!
Wait a minute... I'm studying to be a translator too! I'm not evil! (but
I'm not underestimating the power of the Dark Side, either) But I must
confess that I've had several suspicions like yours as well. In fact,
I've tried to find evidence pro or against the persistent rumour that
Finnish tv translators (using subtitles, not dubbing) have this
competition of who dares to make the worst error in translating
numbers... Well, the senior students haven't been able to give me too
much facts about this - but our coffee room's bulletin board sure is
filled with anecdotes of errs in films & tv !

Have I brought up previously my views about what I think as problems
with some of the Finnish Barks / Rosa translations? If not I sure'd like
to discuss it - other Finns could tell their opinons and we could look if
any other countries have similar experiences.

--- Jyrki Vainio ---

Hi!

Here's an update for the article on Per's web-page and ftp-site.

First, some questions:

- Can someone give an example of the changed dialogue in the CBL-version
of "Luck of the North"? (Btw, is it really changed? It must have been
discussed in the past, but I can't remember the answer.)

- HARRY/DAVID, can you fill in the exact information on the stories
"Kite weather" (WDC 42) and <turkey-hunter> (WDC 87)? I lost my note
on that.

- Are all CBL-publications equal to or better than the CBL in Color
versions? Or are there cases of art being printed in a better state?
(I know that's the case with "Santa's Stormy Visit", and that it's
the case with "The Hard Loser" (OS 29) in a later WDC-reprint.)

- I also want to make a summary of stories in Gladstone-albums which have
more changes/censoring than the CBL. I know it's the case with the
stories "Island in the Sky" and "Land of the Totem Poles" (in both some
dialogue has been censored). Are there more cases?

- What art has been printed in the CBLiC which isn't in the b/w CBL?
I know there are at least two story-board sequences which are not in
the b/w CBL ("Bambi" and the never-made "Nightwatchman Donald").
Is there more?

And now, the update:

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
CHANGES

Not all stories in CBL are reprinted without changes, and unfortunately
the books don't indicate what changes there are. Here's a summary of
those changes compiled by Greg Kay and Daniel van Eijmeren. Data by
Daniel van Eijmeren, with comments/additions from David Gerstein,
Harry Fluks and Mike Pohjola.

Note: Some changes are done as an effort by the editors to correct some
changes which have been made before the first print of a story ("Trick or
Treat" for example), other changes don't omit/change the art itself (which
is the case with "The Golden River"). Those changes are marked with "[*]".

CBL 1:
~~~~~~

OS 29 Too Many Pets

Restored, look at the thick black lines.

CBL 2:
~~~~~~

OS 238 Voodoo Hoodoo

Faces of natives changed and sharpened teeth removed. Native dialect
deleted. Bombie the Zombie's nose is changed and the ring in his nose
is removed. The dialogue referring to the ring moving as the correct
answer to the quiz master's question is changed (panel 15.1). The
words "done for" in the original are replaced with "dead" in the CBL
(as Barks had originally intended).

OS 256 Luck of the North

Some Eskimo dialogue changed.

DD 26 [*] Trick or Treat

A change due to the restoration in the CBL. On page one a caption is
shortened. Original caption not shown, but it's original text is
mentioned in accompanying article.

CBL 3:
~~~~~~

US 13 [*] Land Beneath the Ground

Changes due to the restoration in the CBL. The original panel without
the added caption is printed separately from the story.

For those who don't know: A lot of pages were cut before the story was
printed for the first time. The CBL succeeded in getting some of them
back, but they had to add a caption to a panel to fill in the "new" art.

US 17 A Cold Bargain

In the CBL, the Brutopians' high cheekbones are removed. The phrase
"rich pig of a duck" is changed to "rich dog of a duck."

CBL 4:
~~~~~~

US 22 [*] The Golden River

Page deleted by Barks is added in the story in CBL, the panel he drew
to replace the page is shown somewhere else. No art itself is changed.

US 33 Bongo on the Congo

Panels 7.7, 8.1, 8.2 and 8.3 are censored. Hair of natives is changed
and/or removed. The bones through their "noses" are gone.

CBL 5:
~~~~~~

US 51 [*] How Green Was My Lettuce

Silhouette of Scrooge is deleted. Balloons are added, changed and
deleted to fill in the original art. The 'original' pasted art is
shown in accompanying article.

For those who don't know: For the first publication, two pages were
cut from the story. The CBL got 1 3/4 of the art back, but had to
change some art of the printed 'original' version to fill it in
again.

US 64 Treasure of Marco Polo

Lots of dialogue censored. Any reference to dictator, rebel, civil war
or revolution is changed to General, soldier, or war. Two panels are
changed (16.2 and 21.7); in both, the garrotte Soy Bheen is about to
strangle a rebel with is removed in the CBL.

CBL 6:
~~~~~~

FSG '46 Santa's Stormy Visit

Redrawn, or at least heavily restored. (The CBL in Color version is
the original one.)

CGW '47 Atom Bomb

Redrawn. Last panel censored: a pyramid of bottles is shown instead of a
cash register, and combs are in the customers' hands instead of money.

The redrawn art is almost entirely by Daan Jippes, it's pasted into the
original lay-out (one-tier pages instead of four-tier pages). Some
panels, which were drawn different by Jippes, are replaced with other
redrawn (or at least restored) panels which are closer to the original.

MOC 20 Darkest Africa

Redrawn. Natives changed, references to cannibals altered or removed.
Panel 15.3 removed with panel 15.4 extended to fill in gap.

Some of the redrawn art is by Daan Jippes (page 1-5 and 10), the other
pages are done by Dutch artist Dick Vlottes.

MOC 41 Race to the South seas

Redrawn. In panel 2.4 "Dagobert" appears on the lawyer's note instead
of "Scrooge". In panel 8.2 the name "Kwaak" appears on the boat,
instead of "Quack".

The redrawn art is done by Daan Jippes.

SGW '54 Donald Tells About Kites

Some art is restored and/or redrawn.

USGTD 1 <steamboat race with Blackheart Beagle>

Logo "Uncle Scrooge" added on first page in CBL, covering some of the
smoke of the steamboat.

CBL 7:
~~~~~~

WDC 42 Kite Weather

One half-page restored/redrawn.

WDC 63 [*] <lost dollar bill>

The halos shown above the heads of the ducks in the last panel are
removed in the CBL. According to Barks, they were added by an editor
in the original. (From an April 1968 letter to Michael Barrier,
mentioned in "Carl Barks and the Art of the Comic Book.")

Halos didn't do any harm to Barks-art. 'Original' panel not shown.

WDC 87 <turkey-hunter>

Three pages are restored.

WH 845 DD and the Boys

Restored, look at the thick lines.

CBL 8 & 9:
~~~~~~~~~~

No changes in these volumes?

CBL 10:
~~~~~~~

WDC 240 The Fraidy Falcon

Page 3 is restored, look at the thick lines.

WDC 242 Balloonatics

Page 7 is restored, look at the thick lines.

WDC 261 Medaling Around

Splash panel is bigger in height.

Lots of covers in CBL 10 are reproduced a very badly state, as if someone
quickly took some polaroids and then submitted them for printing. These
are the *Barks*-covers which are screwed up:

WDC 231, WDC 232, WDC 233, WDC 236, WDC 237, WDC 238, WDC 240, WDC 241,
WDC 247, WDC 260, WDC 278, WDC 279, WDC 281, WDC 283, WDC 289, WDC 290*,
WDC 301, WDC 304, WDC 306, WDC 307, WDC 310, WDC 313, WDC 314, WDC 315,
WDC 332, WDC 334, WDC 341, WDC 342, WDC 351, WDC 405

The 'un-Barkish' Barks-cover WDC 350 is printed in black-and-white
(it was included in the last minute, since the editors at first thought
it wasn't Barks).

*) BTW: On the cover of WDC 290, Donald doesn't look like being done by
Barks. Is this a case of Barks not following his own style or is the
cover partly redrawn?

NOTES:

1. The re-inked versions by Daan Jippes were done in 1974, 1975 for
Oberon, the Dutch Disney editor. When the CBL and others used these
stories, they replaced the Dutch dialogue with the original American
text (a mixture of xerox copies and reletterings).
[Information from Disney-Comics archives, november 1993]

2. According to David Gerstein, there are Italian page proofs to "Darkest
Africa" that are of similar quality to "Too Many Pets" and therefore
much better than the CBL version of "Darkest Africa". The more people
that know this (AND COMPLAIN TO GLADSTONE) the better.
[Information from Disney-Comics archives, december 1994]

3. There's one cover (which Barks only sketched) which isn't published
in the CBL. This sketch was made in 1960. Much later, that cover was
inked by Ulrich Schroeder, and published in one of the German fanzines
"Der (Hamburger) Donaldist". At least that's what Dutch editor Thom
Roep told list-member Harry Fluks. Can anyone confirm this? Was Barks'
original sketch also published? The cover was also printed on a Dutch
weekly in 1992.
[Information from Disney-Comics archives, november 1996]

Please feel free to send any correction/addition to: (Email removed)
and/or the Disney-Comics Mailing List ((Email removed)).

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Re: Glomgold wants to rip of Barks

Maybe this is old news to all of you - but did you know there is a
very nice story in one of the Italian digests, where a reporter
visits *Carl Barks* and his wife Gare, and Carl tells the story of
how he met $crooge and became his personal portraitist etc.?
It's really nice, and well drawn too...

COURTESY and NICKNAMES
I didn't read enough original Disney comics to be sure about some
basic ways the characters interact.
Because, in German they have quite complicated formal relationships
at times. So is Gyro always greeted and spoken of as "Herr Duesentrieb"
or "der Herr Ingenieur" and the formal "Sie" is used instead of "Du".
The other way round Gyro also uses "Sie" and "Herr Duck" for Donald
and $crooge. Gus Goose speakts to and of Grandam Duck as "Frau
Grossmutter" and uses "Sie". All others seem to use the personal "Du"
all around.
OTOH Grandma and other old family and acquaitances of $crooge (like
the Beagle Boys), frequently call him by the nickname of "Bertl"
(remember $crooge is "Dagobert" in German), somtimes even "Berti"
if I'm not mistaken.
So how's'at in other languages? Are all of Duckburg on personal
terms?

About who calls whom how in Mickeys world - I'll post that another
time...

Harald
--- (Harald Havas) (Email removed)

--------------------------------
End of Disney comics Digest V96 Issue #258
******************************************

I think I should have clarified my position back then. I asked

> But what is the reason for not listing some appearances? To save our
> fingers from typing it in? To save disk storage? To save our eyes
> from reading long lists of appearing characters?
> I think it's easier to have no special rules like that.

and intended to follow up on this later, but never got around to it.
My point is that I think there shouldn't be many complicated special
rules about the Database proper -- if there should be such rules I
think they should be on database *input* and *output* instead.

That is, when inputting data into the Database, it might be beneficial
if you could save typing by explicitly saying that Li'l Wolf *isn't*
in one particular Big Bad Wolf story, but not having to say that he
does appear in all the rest;
and when an index file intended to look at is produced, there
shouldn't be lots of "uninteresting" appearances listed there.

The reason I would want to move complicated stuff like that to input
and output is of course to make searches in the Database easier (and
therefore faster).

HARRY

>> If you go and see/rent "Antonia's World" the Dutch Oscar winning
>> film

>Are you sure that's Dutch? I never heard of it...

Note that the original title could be ANYTHING! On screen the titel
"Antonia" was seen, in the programs here it was announced as
"Antonias Welt" and I dimly remember the Oscar-ceremony where it was
called "Antonia's world", but the latter might be wrong.
It's either Dutch or a Dutch-Flamic-coproduction, that's for sure.

>> So if no Dutch member tells me this cap is tipical Boor, then my
>> question stands...

>Why would a Dutch member know anything about the Boers'
>caps? Isn't that like asking an Englishman about Australian
>folklore? Or asking an Austrian about something in Germany?

Firstly, we never colonized Germany.
(On second thought, maybe we should have... ;-)
Secondly, anybody in England would know more about Australia, than,
let's say, your average Fin. It's part of local history, no? We
around here, the average guy, for example know more about Hungry and
the Czech Republic than somebody in Hamburg.
But, okay, lets drop the cap-buisness.

JYRKI/TRANSLATIONS
One of the most common mistakes in translating numbers around here
is the translation from American "billion" to German "Billion". In the
row of big numbers the US jumps from "million" to "billion", while
other countries (including England, I think!), have the "milliard(e)"
inbetween.
How they all manage in international buisness I dont know, but we
suffer from news-persons telling us the population of earth has
increased "eine Billion" recently - that's 100 billions(!) for you, good
people of America...
German Disney comics escape that by inventing new high numbers for
$crooge - his money is counted in "Fantastilliarden".

ANIMALS
To add to the seemingly neverendig discussion: Daisy's friends in her
(patchwork?) club are a number of quite different birds... ;-)

TIER
Is this a special comics-word? Doesn't one use "strip" anymore? How
do you pronounce that? "tyre"? "tee-eh"?
"Tier" (pronounced "teer") in German means "animal", BTW ;-)

Greetings

Harald
--- (Harald Havas) (Email removed)

DWIGHT, I responded to your "slandering" of ERB, but I must've
been the last one to get his message in & the whole posting didn't make
it onto the list. My intent had been to browbeat you 8^) but then, much
to my relief, you clarified in a subsequent posting.
In my post, I mentioned two good ERB sites if you or FREDRIK are
interested. They are:
http://www.tarzan.com/
http://www.wowdesign.com/
You may already be aware of these. Wowdesign.com is
social/cultural commentary on the works of ERB. Tarzan.com has links to
online Burroughs novels from Project Gutenberg, the University of
Virginia & Wonderland. Ever read "The Eternal Lover?" How about "The
Monster Men" or "The Mucker?" I haven't, but you can bet your leopard
skin shorts that I'm gonna!
TO ALL: Any info on a Burroughs mailing list? Let me know via
private mail ((Email removed)). Thanks.
Christopher Burton