Keskustelujen arkisto

MARCO:
Oh -- it sounds like you're getting a bit peeved that I disagree that the ZP
translations are bad. I never said that I thought they were good or bad -- I
can't read a word of them! In the instances you so carefully site, a few are
examples of untranslatable jokes, a few were slightly wrong, and some were
just as grossly incorrect as you suggest. Someone like you who can read both
the English original and the Italian translation is infinitely better
equipped to judge the translations than an ignoramus like me.
What I wanted you to try to stop doing is calling Lidia Canattella an "evil
translator", not tell you she wasn't making any missteps. But don't act as
if she were doing this "bad job" on purpose or through carelessness. If
she's actually doing a bad job, let's just call it carelessness due to
overwork and perhaps try to help her rather than condemn her. Beleive me,
there are some truly evil individuals involved in this Duck stuff, and you
should save your rancor for them, not poor Lidia.

In a message dated 96-11-24 18:07:33 EST, you write:

<< I remember this story from the mid 60's (I just can't tell what it was).
Donald, without knowing it, is facing a danger because his head is too much
up (is he driving towards a low bridge? Is a cannonball coming in his
direction? I don't remember). Someone shouts to him: <DUCK!> (obviously
meaning: lower your head, quick!). He turns and says: <Yes, I'm a duck, so
what?> (And of course **CRASH** disaster strikes).

Just to say he's CONSCIOUS to be a duck (or was he referring to his
surname?).
>>

This is a Harvey Kurtzman Will Eisner story from the old MAD comic.
Definatley not cannonical.

Steven Rowe

DON:
Stupid me, of course there isn`t any gravity in the earth`s center. I am sorry
for saying that. What the bowling ball in a fish bowl effect is concerned, you
must have misunderstood me. What I wanted to say is that if the OUTER, liquid
core disolved, the mantle and the crust wouldn`t just stay where they are,
they would sink to fill up the empty room that formerly was the outer core.
Since there won`t be any hollow room left, despite several small caves, that
will probaly form, there won`t be any "fish bowl" any longer.
The room that formed inside the inner core will stay, I never said it wouldn`t,
unless it was a typo.

Danny Coenen
Danny Coenen
Kopernikusstr. 18 Tel. :
(049)2461/56129
D-52428 Juelich
Germany EU e-mail :
(Email removed)

MARCO:
> direction? I don't remember). Someone shouts to him: <DUCK!> (obviously
> meaning: lower your head, quick!). He turns and says: <Yes, I'm a duck, so
> what?> (And of course **CRASH** disaster strikes).
>
> Just to say he's CONSCIOUS to be a duck (or was he referring to his surname?).

Probably the latter--isn't that how neighbor Jones calls him, e.g.?

> [By the way: that WAS untranslatable...!]

Indeed it was. This didn't prevent a Greek translator from doing exactly that
in a Mickey and Goofy story, however: Something was coming at Goofy's head,
so Mickey shouted "waterfowl"!
--
Kriton (e-mail: (Email removed))
(WWW: http://dias.cti.gr/~kyrimis
-----
"You can't expect perfection, you know... not even from me!"
-----

RUDI
My good lady-friend Nicole (who co-invented "Truck" as the German
name for nephew #4 "Phooey") is an X-mas fanatic (well, she
fanatically collects X-mas CDs anyhow) and keeps on wondering about a
line in "Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer". As this is my closest
connection to the anglophonic Internet-world, and you all are so
clever and well read, I'll forward her question:
"What exactly are Reindeer games?"

(You know, the ones Rudi is not allowed to join in... are they
strategic, athletic - pathetic? WHAT do they PLAY - for Santas sake?!)

Harald
(Writing from the country, where "Silent night" was composed)

--- (Harald Havas) (Email removed)

Daniel (Kenny, that is) wrote, "Sure, we could barrage Disney with mail,
but is that really going to do any
> good?"

"Barrage" may not have been the best word for me use as it
connotes war or battle and I'm not taking a confrontational stance. The
last thing I want is to wage war on Disney. I respect too much what the
creators in their & their licensees' hire have done over the years.

I mean, even if we got all the mouse fans who were the slightest bit
> familiar with Gottfredson's work, how many letters would that total? Not too
> many. There are fewer mouse fans than Duck fans. In fact, most Mouse fans are
> already Duck fans, but not vice versa. And in america, I just don't know how
> we could make an impression on Disney.

I think you're right with regards to Duck fans generally being
Mouse fans but not vice versa. However, I'm also a firm believer in that
age-old adage which says, "The squeaky wheel gets the grease." As I said
before, not to be confrontational, mind you, but just to let them know
that there are *some* consumers who'd like to see the currently banned
Gottfredson stuff. Then perhaps that would help lead to, as you say, the
tide turning and

> we'll start recognizing what we're losing .

Well, I think *we* already know what *we're* losing. It's a
matter of getting Disney to recognize what *they're* losing.

Until then, at least we're seeing
> *some* Gottfredson in WDC&S! Now, if only they could stop reprinting
> oft-reprinted stuff. Surely there are some non-banned stories out there.

Hear hear.

This may be wrong, but I think the story you talk about is
> "Terror of the River". It's an old Donald story (pre-$crooge) in which Donald
> and the kids buy a houseboat and are terrorized by a sea monster that turns
> out to be a machine.

No, I'm afraid that doesn't sound like the one I'm in search of.
I definitely remember a for-real sea monster in the story. However, it
does sound like fun, & I'll certainly look for it. Who were the creators?
Thanks for your help. 8^)

Hi! I was away from the list for a few days, due to a birthday party (my own
16th!) and relatives visiting, and I've got a little catching up to do.

CRISTIAN:
=A1Bienvenido a la lista! It's quite rare that we get members from any
Spanish-speaking country. Could you fill us in on the kind of Disney comics
published in Argentina?

>More on Chip & Dale: I've watched several cartoons with Donald
>fighting them one way or another, and the impression I receive is, C
>& D are intelligent and talking beings only when the camera zooms
>close to them. That is, they talk between them. But they never
>engage in conversation with Donald; at "his level", they are=20
>dumb animals. Am I wrong?

I know one cartoon where Donald and Dale worked together repairing a model
airplane. They seemed to both understand each other's language. But that's
just one cartoon. I *do* know that in comics, they talk with "people"
characters on a regular basis. Alot of this can be found in the stories in
the CHIP 'N' DALE comic books. First of all, I should explain about these.
In the late 1950s and early '60s, Dell published a comic book of that name.
It ran from issues 4-30. (Presumably there were some "Four Colors" which
were counted as 1-3.) In the 1970s, Gold Key (and later Whitman) published a
new CHIP 'N' DALE title starting with 1 and lasting until 83 in the 1980s
(or is there a later issue?) To distinguish them, "our" database lists the
first as "CND" and the later one as "CDGK." In these stories, not only do
C&D talk with Donald, but with characters such as Gyro Gearloose, the Brer
Rabbit characters, Snow White, Jiminy Cricket, Pinnochio & Gepetto! (And
Pinocchio is a puppet, not a boy, in the latter.)

While we're talking about Chip 'n' Dale, here's an interesting story to be
talking about in the midst of the "Island in the Sky" discussion. In the
story "Shelter Shortage" (CND 25, 1961--reprinted in CDGK 28 and the Swedish
Kalle Anka 43 of 1966), drawn by Al Hubbard, C&D get trapped in a
rocket-ship and are taken to Planet Piffle, inhabited by people who have
long noses (not dog-noses) and sharp teeth, and live in a medieval-looking
city. They can talk with C&D. In one panel we can see that the Piffle people
are only slightly bigger than the two chipmunks.

GLADSTONE:
How about reprinting some of these stories?

HARALD:
>But, okay, lets drop the cap-buisness.

Better yet, let's find out if we have any Boer members! So...

BOERS:
If you're there, do you want to show yourselves?

DON:
Frank's last name is Stajano, not Stejano. (Now is he going to have to call
you Don Rose? ;-)

GLADSTONE:
Daniel Kenny wrote:
> *some* Gottfredson in WDC&S! Now, if only they could stop reprinting
> oft-reprinted stuff. Surely there are some non-banned stories out there.

What I'd like to see is any story with Eega Beeva in it! (Hello, GLADSTONE?)
BTW, even though I wouldn't call "Island in the Sky" one of Barks' top ten
stories, I certainly agree that it is better than "Micro-Ducks From Outer
Space." In fact, we had a discussion about "worst stories" on the list in
August, but I wouldn't mind going through it again. I think the VERY worst
Barks story I've read is "Hall of the Mermaid Queen."

CHRISTOPHER:
The "sea-monster" story you keep mentioning sounds somewhat like "A Case of
Too Many Sea Monsters" from US 49. The database lists it as:

W US 49-04 10 TS US T:A Case Of Too Many Sea
| Monsters
| w : US 153
| se : 65-06

In it, Donald lives in a house on a cliff by the sea. Scrooge wants to buy
that land, so he hires Gyro to build a mechanical sea monster to scare
Donald away. However, just before the mechanical one can go into action,
Donald and the nephews go down to the beach and meet a real sea monster, who
is friendly and looks exactly like Scrooge's machine, so the effect is
spoiled. (However, I don't recognize the "inner tubes" part.) The plot of
this story is actually lifted out of Barks' "will-o'-the-wisp" story from
WDC&S 159.

>No, I'm afraid that doesn't sound like the one I'm in search of.=20
>I definitely remember a for-real sea monster in the story. However, it=20
>does sound like fun, & I'll certainly look for it. Who were the creators?
Thanks for >your help. 8^)

That's a Barks story, written *and* drawn by CB! The Gladstone reprints are
Gladstone Album First Series 2, Donald Duck Adventures in Color Album 4, and
Donald Duck Adventures 26 (Gladstone II).

MARCO:
>Just to say he's CONSCIOUS to be a duck (or was he referring to his=
surname?).

Presumably he was referring to his surname. Just like in countries such as
Holland and Germany, where Donald and his family are called "Ducks," even
though the native words for the animal duck are something completely
different. That story situation you mention sounds somewhat familiar, but I
wouldn't be surprised if that same gag has been used in Donald Duck stories
a million times over.

DWIGHT (AND HARRY):
I thought "tier" was pronounced to rhyme with "gear" and "fear." But maybe I
just assumed that and it stuck in my head.

FUNNY ANIMAL DEBATERS:
I just thought of another one. What kind of creature is the Abominable
Snowman from Barks' "The Lost Crown of Genghis Khan"?

HARRY:
In "Trail of the Unicorn," HDL's actual quote (at least in the CBL in Color)
is "You can't put Unca Donald in your old zoo! Besides, he isn't even an
animal!" which is even more ironically explicit than the Dutch version's
"wild animal."

HARRY (ESPECIALLY):
One of my birthday presents (which my mother found at a used book sale
earlier this month) was a book--in the format of a hardback children's book,
rather than a comic book--called "Walt Disney's Goofy Explores Cave Man
Island," dated 1980. The cover is a wraparound showing a grassy field with
Goofy wearing an explorer's helmet and standing in front of a bush with two
pairs of eyes peeking from it on the left half of the front cover. In the
top right is a sun-shaped seal saying "BEST COMICS." Most of the back cover
is taken up by an advertisement reading:

The Walt Disney Best Comics Series
featuring....
* MICKEY MOUSE MEETS ROBIN HOOD
* DONALD DUCK AND THE GOLDEN HELMET
* MICKEY MOUSE JOINS THE FOREIGN LEGION
* DONALD DUCK AND THE MAGIC HOURGLASS
* GOOFY ON CAVE MAN ISLAND
* UNCLE SCROOGE AND THE SECRET OF THE OLD CASTLE
and more coming soon....From ABBEVILLE PRESS
Only $3.95 each!

The front endpapers show a collage of characters. I'll try to list them in
order of top-to-bottom, left-to-right as accurate as possible.

Left page:

Donald sitting atop a totem pole
Mickey dressed like Robin Hood
Donald running and looking worried, like he is rushing to catch something
from falling
Chief O'Hara pacing around and looking thoughtful (taken from "The Phantom
Blot"--you
can see this at
http://www.update.uu.se/~starback/disney-comics/chars/ohara.html)
Pluto as a race dog number 8
Huey, Dewey and Louie dressed like maharajahs
A VERY early Pete, with peg-leg, green vest, derby hat, gun belt, no pants,
clawed foot

Right page:

Later Pete, with peg-leg, red overalls, blue coat, green cap
Donald banging head against wall (taken or redrawn from "The Gilded Man," I
think)
Flintheart Glomgold angry and running (taken out of "So Far and No Safari")
Gladstone Gander atop a pole, looking downward and scared
Mickey's airplane comes to a halt in midair (taken from ("Land of Long Ago")
Plain ol' lovable Goofy
Mickey and Donald smiling at the reader, walking together and thrusting
their arms back and forth in sync

The title page shows Goofy carrying a wallet-shaped valise. It looks like a
later Gottfredson picture. Then the book conatins the complete Gottfredson
story "Land of Long Ago," retitled "On Caveman Island." It prints the story
in 32 pages with three strips on each page, except for the first, which has
the title on the top, and to the left of the title a picture (taken from the
story) of Dustibones' caveman butler. Unlike the Abbeville Press books I
usually hear about, this seems to be the complete story with no alterations
or butchering (except that it's colorized, of course)--the lettering matches
Gladstone's reprint in MM 247-249, and the copyright and day's-date stickers
are left on! The story ends on the last page before the inside back cover,
and there are no back endpapers.

TO ALL IT MAY CONCERN:
I just received Donald Duck 300. The Van Horn cover with its Barksian
references was great--I wish there had been as many as on a Rosa cover! The
"Hero 300" story was excellent, and so was David Gerstein's script. I wasn't
comfortable at first with the idea of Donald reading his own adventures in
comic books (much in the same light as Don Rosa's recent discussion of the
"suspension of disbelief") but it worked perfectly in this context. The
Gladstone credits were incomplete--the story was written by Evert Geradts.
The art was excellent, especially the full-page panels.

GLADSTONE:
How about seeing some more of Mau Heymans (and anyone Dutch) in the future?

HARRY:
I notice your database lists this as "200e nummer"--shouldn't that be "2000e
nummer"?

Marco Rota's "The Rhinestone's Curse," once again aided by David Gerstein,
was a hilarious Asterix spoof. What is the history of the Andold stories?
How many are there? What was the first--and how Evil are the American
translations? "Disco Ducks" is probably my favorite Jippes/Milton 10-pager.
The plot was hilarious and packed with high-speed slapstick. I see the
toilet made it past Disney, not suprising really, in light of recent Disney
developments (I even remember a later DuckTales episode which showed the
inside of a ladies' room!) Don Rosa's one-page illustration was great--I
wish the text article hadn't been there so it could have been a full page.
The one-page gag inside the back cover was the only weak choice in the issue
on Gladstone's part--if they *had* to put a gag there, something by Barks,
Rosa, or Van Horn would have been better.

HARRY:
How about adding Andold to the db's "hero" list? For appearing characters,
it would be not necessary to list Aydis and Little Bo.

PER:
How about a char page for Andold? (Speaking of char pages, some of the story
pages have added links to char pages which don't exist. One such page is
Lucifer--but I wonder if it wouldn't be a good idea to give him his own
page, since he's been discussed so much on the list?)

DON:
Is there a D. U. C. K. in that picture? (interesting they left your
signature on, though...)

DWIGHT:
Didn't you script "Disco Ducks"? Your credit is left out.

GLADSTONE:
One thing I noticed was that "Hero 300" and "Disco Ducks" were updated to
the present time--the 2000 changed to 300 and the year to 1996, and disco is
making a "comeback." This distorts the historical context of the story. From
now on, if nothing else, could you print the dates when Dutch stories first
appeared? (This is not so important for typical Egmont stories, since those
are essentially assembly-line products.) Harry's database informs us that
"Disco Ducks" first appeared in the Dutch Donald Duck Weekly 21 of 1979, and
"Hero 300" in DD 6 of 1991.

In conclusion, although it seems tacky not to have any Barks material in a
Donald Duck landmark issue, this issue is a lot better than Gladstone's two
previous "hundred" issues, WDC&S 600 and U$ 300. In fact, the only things
that I feel are sorely missed in this issue are honest hand lettering,
decent paper, and a letter column!

--Jonathan Markoff