Keskustelujen arkisto

Hi, gang!

At last I have e-mail in my own home, and I'm already receiving the
digests here. Tomorrow I'll go to my Dad's office and move all my old
"personal" (i. e. non-digest) mail over here, too, so everyone who's
waiting for a response from me will get one soon.

So... as of now, the old address "(Email removed)" stops
being the family address, and is only my Dad's. My new address is:
(Email removed)
Where does my new address come from? "Ramapithecus" is an extinct
ape that, for many years, was wrongly thought to be the missing link.
That's where my address name comes from. (I tried Disney-related names,
avoiding Mickey, Scrooge, and other favorites in sureness that they were
already taken. But amazingly, there's apparently a (Email removed),
(Email removed), (Email removed), and more, so I had to settle for a
non-Disney word.)

So now I'll be involved in the Digest daily again! No more
desperate, once-a-week two-hour sessions of trying wildly to read and
respond to everything. Nothing but rest, leisure and... and....
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

David Gerstein
<(Email removed)>
"The only way for anyone to get ahead of Mickey Mouse is to run in
front of him!"

DANIEL:
Why complain to Gladstone that they aren't leaping to publish the
original "Darkest Africa" proofs? They're from a BOOTLEG reprint, so
Gladstone had no way to order them. Complaining wouldn't help (and if I
once advocated such complaints, I feel kinda silly now!)
What Fabio and I did was to send Gladstone an actual copy of the
black-and-white Italian reprint that used those proofs. John Clark has
assured me that they'll be used the next time that the story is reprinted.
So the problem has been solved.
[P. S. Daniel, sorry to be slow with the video I told you I'd send.
You'll get it, honest!]

In regard to WDC&S 42:
In CBL VII, the story is printed in the 4-row version that Dell
originally published. There the bottom half of page 6 has been reinked.
In WDC&S Album 3 (and for that matter, MICKEY AND DONALD 15), the story has
been restored to the 6-panel version Barks originally intended. There the
reinked panels become pictures 1-4 of page 9.
The proofs to this story came from Disney-Burbank who got them from
Egmont (at least according to what John told me a long time ago), and the
only Egmont printing of the story that I've seen -- Ehapa TGDD 78, Germany
-- is missing the half-page in question (making the story 6 1/2 pages
long). Hence the need to reink a half-page -- which WD Publications
(Burbank) must have done. The Dutch version, however, is original and
complete.

With WDC&S 87, the reinked pages are 3, 5, and 6. In this case I
haven't seen an Egmont version, but the GP/Oberon version is original.

An interesting note -- in the case of WDC&S 125, the version from
the hardback CBL is different, again, from the CBL in Color album. The
lettering, amazingly, has been traced almost perfectly, but is most
definitely traced if you compare it with previous reprints.

David Gerstein
<(Email removed)>

(My hard disk crashed last weekend. Fortunately, I saved most private
e-mail shortly before that. Anyone who sent me mail in private and
didn't get an answer: you now know why. Fortunately, I can get the
mailing list mail from our archives.)

CRISTIAN (welcome):
>Can we see Donald, in any of his stories, in contact with a real,
>non-talking, lake-swimming duck? Has he ever been to a zoo?

This reminds me of the story "Trail of the Unicorn", where Scrooge
has a zoo, and the Nephews think he wants Donald in it as an attraction.
They object: "Our uncle Donald is not a wild animal!" (well, that's
re-translated from Dutch. I don't know the original English.)

>More on Chip & Dale: I've watched several cartoons with Donald
>fighting them one way or another, and the impression I receive is, C
>& D are intelligent and talking beings only when the camera zooms
>close to them. That is, they talk between them. But they never
>engage in conversation with Donald; at "his level", they are
>dumb animals. Am I wrong?

I think you are right. Only in a very few (very bad) stories, Donald
and C&D talk to each other directly.

HARALD:
>>> If you go and see/rent "Antonia's World" the Dutch Oscar winning
>>> film
>>Are you sure that's Dutch? I never heard of it...
>Note that the original title could be ANYTHING!

I still don't recognise the film. I think it must be Belgian (Flemish).

>"eine Billion" - that's 100 billions(!) for you

Wouldn't that be 1000 billion?
We computerfreaks usually avoid the problem by talking about Mega and
Giga... (and ignore the difference between 1000 and 1024).

>German Disney comics escape that by inventing new high numbers for
>$crooge - his money is counted in "Fantastilliarden".

Same in the Dutch version (and in the original English, I think).
For years, I thought that a "triljoen" (trillion) was yet another
one of these imaginary names. Dutch "trillen" means "tremble"/"shake".
But then I found out it was a real word!

PER:
>Subject: Re: Appearing characters in the Database
>
>My point is that I think there shouldn't be many complicated special
>rules about the Database proper -- if there should be such rules I
>think they should be on database *input* and *output* instead.

You're right about complex rules. But I don't think I should add information
to the "input", since we can never be sure that a story has a character
in it if the character was not explicitly mentioned by the indexer.

I could restate the "rule": if the story hero is DD, HDL *may or may not*
be appearing in it; we don't care. That makes searching for DD-stories
without HDL more difficult (or impossible). But my answer to that is: don't
do a search that way.
BTW: a lot of DD "stories" have no HDL in them. For instance a lot of the
daily gags.

>The reason I would want to move complicated stuff like that to input
>and output is of course to make searches in the Database easier (and
>therefore faster).

Having smaller files also makes searching faster. And you said smaller
files shouldn't be a target! 8-)

DWIGHT:
>Tier is pronounced "tir"

So it rhymes with "stirr"? And not with "hire" or "liar"?
(I learn every day!)

CHRISTOPHER:
>I read a duck story
>when I was a kid about some kinda sea monster made out of inner tubes (I
>think). Then, the real sea monster showed up (of course).

Apart from the stories mentioned, maybe it could be "Mystery of the Loch"
from WDC #237?

DANIEL (and BYRON etc.):
>I don't understand why "Island in the Sky" is regarded as one of Barks'
>worst stories.

My major objection to the story is the first panel, where the Ducks are
put into a semi-future world without any plausible explanation.
Another thing of influence may be that I read a lot of other (non-Barks)
"space travel" Duck stories, before this one. And most of them were very
bad.

DON:
>No, Frank Stejano, Leonardo Gori, Fabio Gaducci, and several other
>non-List-members are writing another book about me which is separate from
>the one that some other folks here are thinking about. And it will only
>appear in Italy

In that case, I'm afraid I'll have to learn Italian...

MARCO:
>Well, the only original script I have is "War of the Wendigo", so I decided
>to take a test on this before stopping any future remark on translations.
>
>Page 1. Any reference to the "common loon" disappears from the Italian
>translation
>Page 3. The joke on "Wendigo - When to go" is ignored. Well, maybe that was
>too much!

The Dutch translated these two gags the following way:
Page 1: A nephew is talking about a "natural phenomenon", and Scrooge
says "we can do that at home as well, with Donald as a subject."

Page 3: Man #1: "Wendigo's, stranger!"
Man #2 (to Donald): "Do you know that natural phenomenon?"
Donald: "This was the last time today someone calls me a natural
phenomenon!"

I don't know whether the Dutch invented this translation theirselves, or they
got it from the German version.

STEVE (about the Barks "hammocks" cover):
> But this wasn't done for a cover, right? It was a sketch for a fan?

How do you know?

--Harry.

"Cristian Lucas" <(Email removed)>:
CL> Can we see Donald, in any of his stories, in contact with a real,
CL> non-talking, lake-swimming duck? Has he ever been to a zoo?

I forget if it's been published yet, but D95211 (art by Esteban) is
called WHO'S WHO IN THE ZOO? It's a 12-page story featuring Donald
temporarily in charge of Duckburg zoo, his pre-eminent task that of
replacing the old beat up tire swing of the zoo's orangutan with a newer
steel-belted radial-ply tire. The ape takes exception to this attempt
and the subsequent matching of wits leads inexorably to the story's
final panels.

CL> Well, hello! On my first posting to the list, I say "hi" to
CL> everyone, I've been reading for some weeks and am enjoying it
CL> thoroughly.

Glad to hear it. Welcome aboard! My friend and fine comic book artist,
Leo Duranona, is from Buenos Aires, too.

"Harald Havas" <(Email removed)>:
HH> Note that the original title could be ANYTHING! On screen the titel
HH> "Antonia" was seen, in the programs here it was announced as
HH> "Antonias Welt" and I dimly remember the Oscar-ceremony where it was
HH> called "Antonia's world", but the latter might be wrong.

Here in the States this wonderful, big-hearted movie is called
ANOTONIA'S LINE (similar to "lineage"). And just to help tie this whole
thread onto topic, this story-telling is an exemplar of the kind of
quirky, non-logical twists of fate and fortune that I was talking about
earlier which so aptly illustrates real-life's rich intuitive processes.

Per Starback <(Email removed)>:
PS> it might be beneficial if you could save typing by explicitly saying
PS> that Li'l Wolf *isn't* in one particular Big Bad Wolf story, but not
PS> having to say that he does appear in all the rest; and when an index
PS> file intended to look at is produced, there shouldn't be lots of
PS> "uninteresting" appearances listed there.

Sounds like you folks might be headed toward a relational database?

(Email removed) (Daniel C. Kenny):
DK> if Gyro is a chicken (a topic which is still not resolved)

I wondered, too. Then last night I was watching a 1975 B&W video
interview with Carl Barks and he says Gyro is a chicken whose design
wasn't completely thought through (in the sense that his over-size
quality thereafter made it hard to work with duck characters in the same
panel).

(Email removed) (Kriton Kyrimis):
KK> your chicken farm in San Jacinto!

For whatever interest it might serve those unfamiliar with San Jacinto
Valley, it lies at the western base of Mount San Jacinto, one of the
five 10,000-foot mountains forming a crescent-shaped barrier which
literally defines the Los Angeles Basin and whose peaks equally form our
classic weather determinant -- the inversion layer, a trapped ceiling of
coastal air held apart from the deserts lying beyond, and which prevents
the vaporous byproducts of 12,000,000 souls from going most anywhere
except out to sea when prevailing winds finally favor.

The big claim to fame for Saint Jim (as the immediate longtime locals
refer to it) is that it towers over Palm Springs, which lies at its
eastern foot. One can take an aerial tram from desert floor to
snow-covered trails in a matter of moments with an accompanying drop of
more than 30 degress Farenheit in air-temperature.

KK> There's something more than simply being funny here, similar to some
KK> of Chaplin's commedies, where he used humor as the means to tell
what
KK> turns out to be a moving story, rather than as an end in itself.

A good story often has human pathos to it. A bit of saddness adds depth
to the comedy. So does villainy. Critics have argued that the Marx
Brothers didn't acheive their peak of greatness until they had a
director who understood this. In a classic recounting, a turning point
of sorts was reached when a pompous villain was made to slap mute Harpo
cruelly in the face. From then on, what would have been simply comedic
come-uppance became cathartic instead. The villain =clearly= deserved
everything he got and the audience was wild to see him get it!

--
riverrun past Eve's and Adam's from swerve of shore to bend of bay
(Email removed) -=*=- http://users.aol.com/dcrawson/home.htm

CHRISTOPHER:
Wow, thank you for all your insight! I do understand your "squeaky wheel.."
angle. If you have a position as to how you want to try and let Disney know
what they're overlooking, please count me in. Hey, if it helps bring back the
glory days of the mouse, then it would be foolish to not try. do you have any
suggestions? Feel free to contact me by my own e-mail, if you don't want to
clog up the list.
By the way, sorry "Terror of the River" wasn't the one you were looking for.
Oh well, I'm sure another list member has shed some light on that subject by
now.
ALL:
I'll be leaving college to go home for Thanksgiving today, so I won't be able
to read or contribute to the list for about a week, as my e-mail is hooked up
at school. Hopefully, while back in NY I'll be able to pick up the new issue
of WDC&S, and find out what happens in part two of "The Once and Future Duck".
It's actually a catch 22. Up at school, I can't find any comics, but I have
the list. On the other hand, at home I can easily find lots of Disney comics,
but don't have access to the list! As Jimmy Stewart once said "this is a very
interesting situation". Anyway, I hope everyone has a happy holiday. See ya
soon:-)

STEVEN:
>
>> I remember this story from the mid 60's (I just can't tell what it was).
>> Someone shouts to him: <DUCK!>
>>(And of course **CRASH** disaster strikes).
>
>
>This is a Harvey Kurtzman Will Eisner story from the old MAD comic.
> Definatley not cannonical.
>

No, no, no! It was an official Disney story, and as far as I can remember it
was drawn by Tony Strobl and probably appeared in WDCS. Looks like I'll have
to do a search for that, but it will take a few days (those old comics are
not in my home...)

By the way: I remember it appeared in "Topolino", too; and <duck!> was
translated as <papero!> (which means "duck" in the animal sense). So they
kept the original reply...
[Aaaagh! I did it again! But surely poor Lidia wasn't even born at that time!]

Marco

VILLE:

Rather than picking specific flips about Finnish translations, I'd like to
point out something more general:
For years the staff of Aku Ankka has been proud of their use of perfect,
colorful language. It has been their main weapon against people who say
that comics are bad influence for children and that they should read "real
literature" instead - and it's even part of their sale campaign.
I'm not saying that they don't use good language because that indeed they
do: it could even be argued that many Finnish children have learned wide
vocabulary just because of the Duck comics - at least this was what
happened in my case. Also, it would take quite much time to be able to
spot an err in their use of Finnish.
What bugs me is that occasionally, perhaps I should even say constantly,
they overdo this. In their attempt to make the language colorful they
sometimes end up with expressions so complex that probably nobody would
use them in real life.
Especially this can be seen in Barks and Don Rosa stories - the ones they
put special attention on. The editor-in-chief Markku Kivekäs told at some
point that it took him several weeks to translate a certain Barks story
that hadn't been yet published in Finnish. The result can be that it looks
like every caption has been tried to have a pun or otherwise witty remark
in it.
When this is done it can interrupt the balance of the words and pictures
in a comic. If the balloon captions are too complicated they take too much
attention on themselves and disturb the flow of the story.
Especially I think it's kind of strange in the case of Barks. Didn't he
put special attention on using simple language? I mean, I remember
something about actually counting the syllables in a caption? Well, this
certainly doesn't seem to be the case here.
Someone from the Aku Ankka staff said that when they are faced with a bad
story, they - in their mission to use superior and coherent language - may
have to invent the whole story!
I used to think that they did this because they wanted their input show
off from the stories (which, as I said, I think it does - in a some times
disturbing way), but later on I've realized that this was not the case.
They just love their work so much that they doesn't seem to realize that
they are at times harming the target of their love (the best stories).
Well, that's what love does occasionally.

STEVEN:

I think you mean Will ELDER as Harvey Kurtzman's partner and not Will
Eisner?

--- Jyrki Vainio ---

ARTHUR:
Gosh, I do so many things like drawing Ducks on books and doors and hoomin
beans. What German comic store did you see that door-drawing? I do recall
doing such a drawing, but you can help clear my mind as to where it was.
Those German tours I take are in the classic "blitzkrieg" vein.

That cover for the German Christmas album is new and will probably only
appear on that one publication. They were nice to want me to do that -- it
was a "gag" cover, and I'm much better at adventure-scenes from some story.
Did you think it was okay for such a jolly Christmas book, or did it have so
much of that latent Rosa weirdness that it looked like it belonged on a
"Nightmare Before Xmas" book?

What am I working on? That $crooge 50th Anniversary story, remember? I'll
still be on that for about 2 more weeks. I would normally be finishing it up
about now, but after the pencilling stage I took two weeks off to do a cover
for Gladstone, a poster for the French PICSOU (which won't appear anywhere
else), and took a trip to that Oakland convention and so forth.