Keskustelujen arkisto

Daniel Kenny, commenting on banned Gottfredson works, said,
"Don't the old works deserve some grandfather clause? Some serious
re-evaluation needs to be done."
I agree 100%. Sure, Gottfredson's work may not be politically
correct by today's standards, but if the stories are read in
historical/sociocultural context, they're sublimated from "mere comics"
to, dare I say it, art. By examining this art, we learn more about
ourselves. We can't deny who & what we were (or are). To do so, would
be/is outright hypocrisy. If these stories could be published with some
sort of text piece explicating the reigning ideas, or zeitgeist if you
will, not only would it help to justify their publication to the
naysayers, it might also make the stories richer than they already are.
Of course, this is probably a case of preaching to the converted. Maybe
we should barrage Disney with mail asking them to reconsider. After all,
as has been said here, Mickey's popularity is ailing.
Besides this, it would fun to read! 8^)
On a different note, information please! I read a duck story
when I was a kid about some kinda sea monster made out of inner tubes (I
think). Then, the real sea monster showed up (of course). I can't
remember if it had Donald or Scrooge (Donald, I think), but I know it
had HD&L. And I distinctly remember them being on a boat in a lake
(Loch? At sea?). Any ideas on the title of the story & where I might
find an original copy or reprint? Any help would be greatly appreciated!

"Blessed are the easily amused for they will always be...uh, amused."
Christopher Burton

HARRY:
No, Frank Stejano, Leonardo Gori, Fabio Gaducci, and several other
non-List-members are writing another book about me which is separate from
the one that some other folks here are thinking about. They already have a
publisher and date for theirs, I believe. And it will only appear in Italy
and also deal with the Italian Disney comics universe, so it would not
conflict with anything the Northern European folks might write.

DANIEL K.:
I know I seem to always be "correcting" you for things you say or do which
are meant to simply express your appreciation of me. But it shouldn't be
suggested that my opinions are more valid because you think I am any sort of
"official" interpreter of this Duck world. I never sought that label, I
resist it, and no one at the publishers has tried to give it to me. I do
Duck comics for a certain portion of the readership, but not for all. I even
consider my own stories "imaginary" compared to the ones I grew up with...
the same way the German DONALDISTs look at any other stories based on the
"real thing".

All right, all right, I surrender! I sure know when to stop! If Don Rosa (on
the author's side!) and Goria (on the Italian side) tell me that the
translations in "Zio Paperone" are all right... what can I do but silently
set aside?

Just let me have this last essay. A case study.

You all know by now that usually I can't properly judge translations because
I don't know the original text. But you must admit that up to now whenever I
sniffed a mistake in the translation... there was it!
Well, the only original script I have is "War of the Wendigo", so I decided
to take a test on this before stopping any future remark on translations.

Page 1. Any reference to the "common loon" disappears from the Italian
translation (panel 3, translation: <Seems to me that you could earn a merit
bage by standing your uncle!>) Of course, the joke on the <common loon>
would be perfectly translatable in Italian... if only one would care to do so!

Page 2, panel 3. Original: <Besides, soon there won't be much forest left
here to pollute!> Translation: <Besides, even far from here there's lots of
forest to be smoked!>

Page 3. The joke on "Wendigo - When to go" is ignored. Well, maybe that was
too much!

Page 4, panel 2. Original: <How can you compare the two?> <We can't
imagine!> Translation: <How can you make up two such opposite
things?><That's a problem!> (Where the Nephews seem to sympathize with
Deflora... while in the original script they clearly assert that saving the
environment comes BEFORE Deflora's job!)

Page 4, panel 6: no reference to the menehunes in the translation.

Page 6, panel 3. Original: < These trees weren't cut by people>.
Translation: <That was not a trap... beavers chewed them!> (Meaning just the
opposite!)
Original: <Trained beavers? Don't be silly! Who could train beavers...>
Translation: <Aha! Beavers did such a fine job? They sure were trained!>
(Meaning just the opposite...)

Page 6, panel 8 (and following): The Peeweegas speak ordinary language. No
ryme or rythm in any way.

Page 7, panel 2. Original: <The night is so peaceful and serene! Reminds me
of my days on White Agony Creek back in the Klondike!>. Translations: <What
a night! Reminds me of Klondike!>

Page 8, panel 2. Original: <It's you?>. Translation: <It's you guy?>
(singular) (That's clearly wrong. $crooge is speaking to the Peeweegas, not
to a SINGLE Peeweega!)

Page 9, panel 1. Original: <Somebody is carrying unca $crooge off into the
deep woods!>. Translation: <They are carrying away unca $crooge!>.

Page 11, panel 6. Original: <Meanwhile, near a spot in the land of thousand
lakes known only to our heroes...> Translation: <Meanwhile...>
Original: <I hear angry voices...> Translation: <I hear voices...>

Oh, darn it! Why should I bother you any more with this? I've marked at
least 12 spots where the translation was not a translation. In 11 pages!

DON:
> she cares so much about the "Lo$" stories, she
>told me once, that she wanted to find the time to translate them herself,
>specifically to make certain that they were 100% in the spirit and precise
>meaning of my original scripts.

Well, if you do believe that, why should I convince you of the opposite?

> Now, if she misunderstands that spirit one
>time every 37,591 words, I think I would gladly forgive her!

I've made my word processor count the words in "War of the Wendigo". It's
3,869 words. And I'd say you were misunderstood at least 40 times. Does that
change your mind? Of course not! Well, you don't mind if the translator
writes <crackling> instead of <creeping>... nor does Goria, nor any other...
so why should **I** bother about it? So hereby I do solemnly swear that no
more shall I speak on this list about translations... accepting that a
mistake every 100 words is to be considered normal!

(Yes, I am a polemist. But, I assure you, I also know when to stop. So,
honestly: I myself shall continue to think that Cannatella's translations
are horrible... but I do promise you that no more I shall post about this!
And that's really the end of this matter. Sorry)

Marco

.<< There's one cover (which Barks only sketched) which isn't published
in the CBL. This sketch was made in 1960. Much later, that cover was
inked by Ulrich Schroeder, and published in one of the German fanzines
"Der (Hamburger) Donaldist". At least that's what Dutch editor Thom
Roep told list-member Harry Fluks. Can anyone confirm this? Was Barks'
original sketch also published? The cover was also printed on a Dutch
weekly in 1992.>>
But this wasn't done for a cover, right? It was a sketch for a
fan? So, the good news is that as long as Barks sketches are out there, then
there will always be a chance for new Barks covers for decades to come; even
if Barks decides to never draw another line.

Steven Rowe

> Why are we all of a sudden criticizing the innaccuracies of "the Universal
> Solvent"? Even if the story *is* innacurate (and that debate hasn't been laid
> to rest yet)it still is a great story. It's the same for "Land Beneath the
> Ground" or "Island in the Sky". Nobody questioned those stories' credibility,
> because everyone accepted them *as* stories, and not as scientific documents.

Because Don's stories are all very carefully researched (witness
his extremely informed replies on the science behind "the Universal
Solvent"). When I got the mistaken notion in my head that I had found an
exception to this rule, I thought I'd point it out. Happily, I was proved
100% wrong. (Yes, Barks' stories are also carefully researched, but this
research is mainly focused on issues of history and locale.)
--
Kriton (e-mail: (Email removed))
(WWW: http://dias.cti.gr/~kyrimis
-----
"Think of me as a paradox in an anomaly, and get on with your tea!"
-----

HARRY & DANIEL KENNY:
RE: Glomgold threatening Barks
This was from DuckTales #3 (Disney run), dated August 1990 (Disney run).
There is a four panel sequence, in which Glomgold is preparing to take over
Scrooge's fortune:

BUTLER: Sir, banker *Savin*Cash* is here.
SC: (Who looks like Barks' caricature of himself.) Y-you want to s-see me,
Mr. Glomgold?
FG: You're Scrooge's banker. Tell me *everything* about his many sordid
business arrangements and clients.
SC: S-sir, I can't. That would be *unethical*.
FG: "Ethical?" Hah! If you don't tell me what I want to know... I'll
foreclose on your house, your bank, your yacht... and your chicken farm
in San Jacinto!

(For those of you who are very observant, the punctuation in correct. Most
sentences end in periods, instead of the usual exclamation marks!)

In issue #5 there is a letter by Carl Barks, saying that he appreciated
the gag and praising the art in Disney's story, his only regret being that he
had been drawn the same height as Glomgold. (Actually, Glomgold had been
standing on a stool, but Savin Cash was shorter than the butler.)

I think Barks was very kind in his remarks. Although I wouldn't mind having
a caricature of myself appear in four panels of a duck story (not that
this is at all likely, but, just in case, I do wear that straw boater), I
wouldnd't have praised Disney's un-Magica treatment of Magica so much if I
had been in Barks' shoes.

In issue #5 they payed another tribute to Barks: Scrooge takes the kids to
an underground complex, in which there is a room where he keeps all sorts
of mementoes from past Barks adventures, including a mechanical yeeker
bird (from the story about the unbreakable glass), which is supposed to
be even better than the original, and whose services are employed later
on in the story.

DON: who was the first one to come up with the idea of the memento room?
You, or Marv Wolfman, who wrote that DuckTales story?

HARRY alone:

> (BTW: I like your signature quotes. They are often very funny.)

The problem with these randomly selected quotes is that they occasionally
appear to comment on what I write. I once had to to apologize publically to
someone, because the quotation appeared to be intended as severe criticism
against that person!

> For example, in Don's "Treasure of Croesus", noone complains that it
> is nearly impossible for Scrooge to find *all* the missing parts of the
> temple of Artemis. But what still annoys me is that Don spelled the
> German city of Muenchen as "Munich" in the story... 8-)

Speaking of mistakes in that story, in the cover of WDC&S #602, Croesus' name
is written in Greek as "KPOESOS", which is quite incorrect. The correct
rendering of Croesus' name in Greek is be "KPOISOS". (You have to imagine
that P = rho and S = sigma here.)

> There has in fact been a lot of complaining about "Island in the Sky". It's on a
> lot of people's list of "worst Barks stories" (including mine).

I beg to differ. Although the story is not very accurate scientifically, it
has some fantastic imagery (the odd asteroids through which they pass, the
contrast between the fertile and the desert asteroid), and the resolution
in the end is deeply touching. This is one of my favourite stories, and
Barks once said that it is his favorite, too. (Interview with Barks and
Gottfredson on the record accompanying MM in color.)

BTW, if Ducks are funny animals, what can one make of touching stories like
this one? I've been deeply moved by several of Barks' stories, and I've
even cried after reading a couple of Don's. There's something more than
simply being funny here, similar to some of Chaplin's commedies, where
he used humor as the means to tell what turns out to be a moving story,
rather than as an end in itself. Back to "Island in the Sky", instead of
throwing away his entire fortune to correct a mistake (which might not
have been necessary--the birds *might* have returned, as Scrooge said), a
funny animal would have found a cheap gag to tie the rope to the fertile
asteroid and then, when the pygmy indians were just under half way through,
would have cut the rope saying "Gee, ain't I a stinker"?

DON:
RE: The Eisner Award Plaque

By self-reference, I meant that the *story* was referring to *itself*.

The reason I called this a touch of genius was that it appeared in a part of
the story where Donald was trying to prove that Scrooge was a big liar, and
that he had obtained his fortune in some easy way. The plaque, obviously a
fake if the time is the forties, seems to prove this. Yet, Scrooge did earn
his fortune the hard way, and we know that Lo$ did get the Eisner Award in
1995, so the plaque, although it couldn't possibly be there, proves Donald
wrong by its existence. (Although today's quote was selected randomly, it
does seem appropriate at this point--see what I meant above?)
--
Kriton (e-mail: (Email removed))
(WWW: http://dias.cti.gr/~kyrimis
-----
"Think of me as a paradox in an anomaly, and get on with your tea!"
-----

DON
Oops, forgot to include this in my last message. Don't worry about
"correcting" me. Heck, it's the only way I'll learn!

Jyrki Vainio wrote:

> Have I brought up previously my views about what I think as problems
> with some of the Finnish Barks / Rosa translations? If not I sure'd like
> to discuss it - other Finns could tell their opinons and we could look if
> any other countries have similar experiences.

I don't remember any discussion about it on this list. Here are some of
my discoveries:

- The translator had not recognized Rockerduck in LOS4 and had just
twisted his english name to better fit into Finnish mouth: Jonni D.
Ankkefeller instead of using the normal translation Kroisos Pennonen.

- Gyro's father in LOS10 is named Joonas (last name not given), but in
Guardians of the Lost Library his name is given as Pietari Peloton.
In GotLL the translator obviously knew who he was, and had also read
that Barks' riverboat story, because the name rhymes with Petteri
Peloton, finnish name of Gyro's grandfather.

--
Ville Saari EMail: (Email removed)
Tallbergin puistotie 7 B 21 Phone: +358 9 682 2226
00200 Helsinki
FINLAND /dev/null: write failed, file system is full