From: (Email removed) (Mattias Hallin)
>>>>>Don Rosa wrote:
>such a error was found by Mattias Hallin in "Guardians of
>the Lost Library" where I had Marco Polo doing something 50 years before he
>was born
>>>>>Are you quite sure it was *I* who told you that?! You see, while I've
certainly picked a fair number of nits in your stories over the years, I
just don't recall noticing *that*, and I'm rather anxious not to be
credited with a discovery I didn't make. But maybe I did?
I sure have a memory of it being you. Maybe it was Stefan Dios, then? Or
another of my Swedish friends? And then were you the fella who spotted my
error in chapter 3 of the "Lo$" of having the Professor from Birmingham
still alive (it had been so long since I'd read "Lost in the Andes" that I'd
forgotten the bit about him "passing into the long sleep"). But whoever
*that* was, it was another instance when I was able to correct a bonehead
error for subsequent reprintings.
>>>>But perhaps someone else *does* rememeber making such a contribution?
Yeah, maybe.
Author
Topic: 199809
(311 messages)
Don Rosa
Digest #222
Message 106 -
1998-09-10 at 14:17:07
Asger Jensen
Duck-teeth
Message 107 -
1998-09-10 at 15:31:06
Anders Christian Sivebaek:
>I think I remember some
>Barks-stories where he showed teeth, but maybe not any Don Rosa-
>stories (please correct me here, if I'm wrong!).
The ducks have ALSO shown teeth in Don Rosa stories. Fx. "Last Lords of
Eldorado" where Flinty gets REALLY mad in the end! I'm not sure but I
think there was also once a very embarresed duck showing teeth, but
maybe I'm confusing it with a Marco Rota story? I don't know!
-Anyway! I've always wanted to know this; In "Horsing Arround with
History" by Barks/Van Horn, who's idea was it having Scrooge show his
teeth while saying like a horse? Barks' or Van Horn's? In other words;
were the teeth included when the story left Barks' hands???
Asger Brix Jensen
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>I think I remember some
>Barks-stories where he showed teeth, but maybe not any Don Rosa-
>stories (please correct me here, if I'm wrong!).
The ducks have ALSO shown teeth in Don Rosa stories. Fx. "Last Lords of
Eldorado" where Flinty gets REALLY mad in the end! I'm not sure but I
think there was also once a very embarresed duck showing teeth, but
maybe I'm confusing it with a Marco Rota story? I don't know!
-Anyway! I've always wanted to know this; In "Horsing Arround with
History" by Barks/Van Horn, who's idea was it having Scrooge show his
teeth while saying like a horse? Barks' or Van Horn's? In other words;
were the teeth included when the story left Barks' hands???
Asger Brix Jensen
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Daniel Van Eijmeren
Donald triumphing over Scrooge again
Message 108 -
1998-09-10 at 18:02:53
Yesterday evening, I suddenly remembered another Barks instance of
Donald triumphing over Scrooge:
- The beginning of "City of Golden Roofs" (US 20), where Scrooge gets
angry because of Donald's comment that he was lucky to corner his
"mountain of money in the *old days* when getting rich was *easy*!"
They have a contest to see who of them makes the most money fastest,
which is finding a salesman job. This isn't easy because "everybody
wants one!" Donald gets a job by passing a test which Scrooge flunked.
Scrooge does some more applying but he only gets a job after being
unfair.
Greetings,
- "Odd static! When does the music start?"
--- Daniel - "That *is* music! You're listening
to Shoeless Pashly, the king of the
bongo drums!"
(Scrooge and Donald, US 20)
Donald triumphing over Scrooge:
- The beginning of "City of Golden Roofs" (US 20), where Scrooge gets
angry because of Donald's comment that he was lucky to corner his
"mountain of money in the *old days* when getting rich was *easy*!"
They have a contest to see who of them makes the most money fastest,
which is finding a salesman job. This isn't easy because "everybody
wants one!" Donald gets a job by passing a test which Scrooge flunked.
Scrooge does some more applying but he only gets a job after being
unfair.
Greetings,
- "Odd static! When does the music start?"
--- Daniel - "That *is* music! You're listening
to Shoeless Pashly, the king of the
bongo drums!"
(Scrooge and Donald, US 20)
Daniel Van Eijmeren
Ducks showing their teeth
Message 109 -
1998-09-10 at 20:50:30
ANDERS C. SIVEBAEK:
> Does Donald Duck have teeth?" Well, the answer on the back of the
> [Trivial Pursuit] card was no! What do you think? Personally I've
> seen Donald's and the other ducks' teeth some times. [...] I think
> I remember some Barks-stories where he showed teeth,
Yes, on the first page of the money for Daisy story (WDC 95) both
Gladstone and Donald can be seen showing their teeth.
> but maybe not any Don Rosa-stories (please correct me here, if
> I'm wrong!).
Okay. :-) Look at the first page of "An Eye for Detail" (D94121).
Both stories are random examples, so there might be more striking
pictures of ducks with teeth.
The ducks only seem to have (human) teeth when it is needed for their
expression, but there are at least two Barks instances of ducks having
*false* ones: the horseradish story (OS 495/US 3) and the love letter
story (WDC 111).
Greetings,
--- Daniel
> Does Donald Duck have teeth?" Well, the answer on the back of the
> [Trivial Pursuit] card was no! What do you think? Personally I've
> seen Donald's and the other ducks' teeth some times. [...] I think
> I remember some Barks-stories where he showed teeth,
Yes, on the first page of the money for Daisy story (WDC 95) both
Gladstone and Donald can be seen showing their teeth.
> but maybe not any Don Rosa-stories (please correct me here, if
> I'm wrong!).
Okay. :-) Look at the first page of "An Eye for Detail" (D94121).
Both stories are random examples, so there might be more striking
pictures of ducks with teeth.
The ducks only seem to have (human) teeth when it is needed for their
expression, but there are at least two Barks instances of ducks having
*false* ones: the horseradish story (OS 495/US 3) and the love letter
story (WDC 111).
Greetings,
--- Daniel
Stefan Diös
Lydia, oh Lydia (very long!)
Message 110 -
1998-09-11 at 00:24:20
Looks like some people expect me to pick up the gauntlet... and why not?
This is fun! OK, guys... with or without gloves?
Various people, including myself, have given their views on translation of
Disney comics on these pages. I get the feeling that even if specific cases
sometimes are disputed, most of us share the same general ideas... or don't
we? Having done this professionally for a number of years, I can give you
some of my own guidelines:
1) I will keep close to the original writer's intentions when I can.
2) I will not be afraid to make small changes in the original, if I am
reasonably sure they improve on the story.
3) The higher the quality of the original (in my opinion), the harder I will
work to keep that quality level intact, even when I have to make changes for
some reason.
4) I will at all times try to adapt my text to the specific traditions that
the Duck comics have grown into in my country for 50 years, regarding such
things as how the different characters express themselves and relate to each
other. I will also change, when I can, background information from
"uninformed" writers in order to make it as consistent as possible with my
interpretation of how the (Swedish) Duck universe works.
To give an example: If I receive a story where Uncle Scrooge was born in
China, I will try to change that to Scotland because that's the way I feel
it should be. If the plot doesn't allow for such a change, I will ignore
that "fact" and try to come up with another reason for Scrooge to go to
China, or whatever the case may be. Of course, this extreme example would
never pass the editors nowadays. But there might be similar, less obvious
cases, where I will apply the same reasoning.
Now, in my work, #4) above is vastly more important than #1). This can't be
emphasized enough. My job is not to be 100% faithful to every word I receive
from the original writers (through their editors). My job is to write a
dialog for the comics that reads and works well in Swedish. At times, this
involves some editing. Some of this editing should perhaps be done by
editors before me, but if I feel that more is needed, I'll go ahead and do it.
Even though the different writers and artists now are credited with their
names, making it possible for every reader to compare their different
styles; taken altogether they are all in the same issue of the Swedish
"Kalle Anka & C:o". And that magazine needs some consistency within it. This
is absolutely not to say that I try to make all writers look exactly the
same (which no doubt some editors would encourage). Even in the Swedish
version, anyone with some knowledge could easily tell a William Van Horn
script from a Don Rosa or a Charlie Martin... but there will be a fair
amount of Stefan Dios in all of them. Hopefully, all this together implies
some degree of "Duck tradition", as well as some development of styles and
characters.
Then again, having said all this, I will admit that I might be more inclined
to stay even closer to all originals now that we do publish the writers'
names. If I feel the decision is close, of course!
Many people brought up the extremely important point of not looking down
upon readers and treat them as simple-minded. This has been, perhaps, my
number one most cherished concept from the beginning. For more than ten
years, my editors consistently simplified my texts because they found them
too difficult and "high-brow" for the average reader. Sometimes I disagreed
with them, sometimes I guess they did the right thing. One thing I learned
from the process (and I am still learning) is that whatever we want to
"teach" must be smoothly woven into the story-telling and can't distract
from the flow of the reading. We are not a textbook in history (or
chemistry, astronomy, integral calculus, or even grammar). We are
entertainment... albeit, preferably, a reasonably sophisticated
brand of entertainment!
Now, this will be long-winded enough, so I'll move over to the specific case
in point. As noted, we already had an animated discussion about this, which
I thoroughly enjoyed. But seein' as how my worthy and esteemed opponent has
re-stated his case, please let me re-state mine. (Oh, I feel sorry for him
already. I'm sure he's a genuinely good man... he can't help being so
blatantly wrong in this case!)
In Don Rosa's "Treasury of Croesus", a very funny running gag is made by
Donald singing Groucho Marx' famous "Lydia, the Tattooed Lady" throughout
the story, confusing the female name Lydia with Lydia, the ancient kingdom
in Asia Minor. What to do for a translator?
Now, this is obviously a pun. A word-play. It totally depends on the name of
the woman and the country being the same. In many languages, including my
own, they have different names. Close, but not close enough. It would be
preposterous that the Swedish Donald (Kalle Anka) would think of a song
called "Lydia" when he hears the name "Lydien". So, this song just can't be
used. This is an easy decision. It has nothing to do with whether the song
is widely known or not. It has to do with the fact that it doesn't contain a
usable pun.
The familiarity of the song might be a factor if the names really were the
same. In that case, I would have gotten out my video copy of "A Day at the
Circus" to see if I could use the Swedish subtitles. (Which I did anyway,
incidentally, even though I knew there was a really long shot I could find
something to use. I like as much input as possible before I make a crucial
decision.) After that, I would have decided whether to use the song or not.
Probably I would have used it. Then I would have decided whether to use the
Swedish subtitles from the TV version, to find another Swedish version, or
to try to write my own Swedish lyrics. It would, of course, *never* have
been an option to keep the English lyrics intact!
To digress even further, a similar incident ocurred in another Rosa story,
"Last Sled to Dawson", where Scrooge recites several lines from a poem by
Robert Service. This poem, as well as the poet himself, is almost completely
unknown in
Sweden. But there was no pun involved, nor any other reason not to use it. I
went to the library and had them dig out everything they had on Service from
their dustiest vaults. I found out that some of his poems did exist in
Swedish translation, but apparently not this one. So I made my own, and
enjoyed it, too. (Whereas, in "Return to Xanadu", I used an existing
translation from Coleridge.)
But this time was different. I had to find another song than "Lydia" for
Donald. I couldn't think of any songs with any reasonable connections to
Asia Minor, but I did find one with a somewhat historical theme. I chose
ABBA's "Waterloo", which contains a few lines like
The history book on the shelf
Is always repeating itself
and so on. (There is both a Swedish and an English version. Naturally, I
used the Swedish one.) Now, the pun is gone, but there is still some kind of
a gag. And in the end, I gain an extra point in that (no spoiler intended)
it's shown that history really repeated itself more than anyone could
expect! All else I had to do was make sure that Donald's cue lines from the
others contained references to "history", not only "Lydia".
It could be argued that Rosa's stories always are set in a time many years
before ABBA, so Donald couldn't know about this song. I understand that
argument, and I would have been happier if the song was older. Still, that's
not enough to make me look for something else. This is a Rosa story set in
the "present". Although, by Don's own admission, he'd like that "present" to
be somewhere in the 50's, it's rarely spelled out in the stories. I would
certainly avoid using an ABBA song in a story like "Life of Scrooge", which
is decidedly set in a specific time in the past.
Would I use it in, say, a Barks reprint that everybody knows was written in the
1940's? I did once, long ago, and got admonished by some friends. I
countered by arguing that the story itself wasn't tied to any specific year,
but was written for the then-present time, and just as easily could be
viewed as to be set in our present time. But I don't know if I'd do the same
today. Maybe I've grown a little more careful.
(By the way, if I wanted to, I could point out that Service's poem mentioned
above wasn't published when Scrooge was in Yukon. But Don could easily argue
that Service might have written it many years before, and maybe shown it to
Scrooge when they made friends somewhere. Just as easily as Geronimo could
slip away from Florida to Arizona! I have no problem with that. The poem
really fits perfectly into the story and the character.)
Back to Lydia. So, I lost a reference to Groucho Marx, but I put in one to
ABBA. I'll admit that it's different, but who is to say it is worse? I'm as
huge a Marx fan as anybody. I'd love to spread Grouchism across the world
any day I can. But in this case, I'm proud to say I didn't let this fact
muddle my professional integrity. Note that this has nothing in the world to
do with looking down on the readers, removing cultural references, or
de-sophisticate the stories.
Finally, I'll say something about the "solution" to keep the English lyrics
intact in the translation, and put in a footnote explaining what's it all
about. I'm still amazed that someone could really, seriously, suggest
something like this for a Disney comic. If any translator does that, in any
country, I hope that person gets sacked immediately for not doing his or her
job!
Well, maybe I shouldn't say "any country", much as I pretty darn would like
to. I don't know enough about Disney tradition in Italy. It might be very
different from Sweden or any other country. But I would, never, never, ever
consider having Donald Duck speak a foreign language in the Swedish "Kalle
Anka" (unless, of course, it's part of a story where he talks to a
foreigner, or something like that). In a case like this, the notion is
absurd. It is one hundred percent unthinkable. Sweden may get more and more
Americanized nowadays, with shop signs, movie titles, and advertisements in
English. And Donald Duck may be American... but Kalle Anka is Swedish. He
doesn't sing in English. It can't be done. No way, never, ever. I'll defend
that to my death.
Not to mention the, to me, rather obvious fact that a footnote would disturb the
flow and pace of the story!
I won't argue whether the actual Italian translators picked a good or a bad
solution in the song they chose. Inasmuch as Lydia would be close to the
same name for the country and the woman, I can imagine them keeping the
original, if they liked, but with Italian lyrics. And I may accept that a
better choice than "Waterloo" could have been found for the Swedish version,
even if I liked it more than many others of my sometimes forced solutions to
similar problems... what with the extra effect in the end, and all. But I'll
*never* accept that keeping the English text intact, or keeping the Lydia
song at all, would be a viable solution. I don't know what Don himself
thinks about this. I wouldn't want him to feel offended that his fine
Marxian gag is gone, but if he does, I can't do anything about it. I can't
apologize for this, because I'm absolutely certain I did the right thing.
Might be the only time that happened, but if so, this was it!
I'm sure I've taken up a whole digest by now. But I've said my part. And I
still love you all.
Sorry I had to bother you with something as self-evident as this!
Stefan Dios
Malmo, Sweden
>-------
>BROR
>
>>I REALLY don't think that any translator IGNORED that song since
>>it's widely known even outside the U.S.
>
>Yes and no.
>
>Yes : they did IGNORE it, which means they recognized the reference,
>and purposedly avoided to use it in the translation, for reasons that
>are technically sensible but, IMO, thus spoiling the fun of it.
>
>No : the song is NOT widely known outside USA, and it will never be,
>if treated this way.
>
>>BUT the song and the jokes around it are virtually unstranslatable,
>>and to leave the lyrics unchanged or try some obscure translation of
>>the lyrics would make a story literally unreadable.
>
>Totally disagree, sorry. What's the difference between "Lydia the
>tattooed lady" and "dance, Lydia dance" (an old, silly Italian song,
>where the original actually said "dance, LINDA, dance") to the reader
>UNAWARE of EITHER songs, which is very likely, *especially* the
>younger readers ?
>
>>As in the case of "Mark Twain" references, I don't think a translator
>>can be so close to the original and still produce a good and redable
>>comic in another language.
>
>Disagree, again. You seem to join the league of "It's just entertainment"
>fans, here, while I'm totally with the various folks that pointed out,
>while discussing matters like the "workers' paradise" case, that one can
>actually LEARN something new, while entertaining oneself reading comics.
>
>Again, there's quite a few possibilities here, like
>
>1. somebody KNOWING of the Marx Bros. would enjoy the gag A LOT
> (I, for one, ROTFL for days after reading that... :-)
>2. somebody NOT KNOWING of the Marx, but interested in classic
> comedy could investigate the matter further.
>3. somebody NOT KNOWING of the Marx and UNINTERESTED in comedy could
> just go "oh, DD sings a silly song", and keep reading the rest
> unaffected by the incident.
>
>Being things as they are, the situation is actually
>
>1. somebody KNOWING of the Marx Bros. could NOT enjoy the gag because
> it's not there.
>2. somebody NOT KNOWING of the Marx, but interested in classic
> comedy could NOT investigate the matter further, because he/she
> wouldn't know there's anything to investigate.
>3. somebody NOT KNOWING of the Marx and UNINTERESTED in comedy
> just goes "oh, DD sings a silly song", and keeps reading the rest
> unaffected by the incident.
>
>So, where's the good in all that? OK, the gag itself remains (Donald
>*obviously knowing* of Lydia, and singing the song), but it's not
>THAT song, so at least HALF of the fun is lost...
>And, before you or somebody else would point out that again, NO! I don't
>think that a note (or leaving the text in English) would spoil the
>"entertainment" for the non-English-literate reader.
>It would ADD to it, IMHO, and HELP them better understand Rosa's ways of
>wit.
>And, I'd like to point out also that on "Zio Paperone", probably prompted
>by fans (not me, though :-), they have recently started to put footnotes
>in Rosa stories, after receiving an avalanche of disappointed letters
>about
>an incorrect translation of "Prestor John" ("Prete Gianni" in Italian)
>as...
>"Prestor John" (name & surname) in the Xanadu story.
>
>Besides, I really hope Don Rosa himself wouldn't grow tired of putting
>his learned and witty references in his stories, seeing as they are
>wasted in some European publications...
>
>[to Anders]
>>perhaps you can translate that into "single-minded" or
>>"simple-minded" persons....
>
>Which is exactly how I DON'T LIKE to be treated by the publishers of
>my favourite comics. I've always thought that a comic for "the family"
>means that adults and children could both enjoy the stuff, at different
>levels of course, and that more "complicated" matters should be
>discussed with, and explained to the kids. Who will, eventually, grow
>up themselves, too, and I have a strong suspicion that they won't
>re-read the "simple-minded" stories, when they do grow up, as we
>do with, say, the Gottfredson stuff... (which we don't get reprinted
>because it is "complicated", un-PC and could "disturb" the young readers'
>fragile minds....) but they most likely *will* re-read the Rosa
>stories... missing the gags again, unless the publishers' attitude
>on the subject would change. Three Cheers for Disney Italia, here.
>
>Again, sorry for bringing up an old polemic again, I won't insist on
>the subject. Not too often, at least...:-)
>
This is fun! OK, guys... with or without gloves?
Various people, including myself, have given their views on translation of
Disney comics on these pages. I get the feeling that even if specific cases
sometimes are disputed, most of us share the same general ideas... or don't
we? Having done this professionally for a number of years, I can give you
some of my own guidelines:
1) I will keep close to the original writer's intentions when I can.
2) I will not be afraid to make small changes in the original, if I am
reasonably sure they improve on the story.
3) The higher the quality of the original (in my opinion), the harder I will
work to keep that quality level intact, even when I have to make changes for
some reason.
4) I will at all times try to adapt my text to the specific traditions that
the Duck comics have grown into in my country for 50 years, regarding such
things as how the different characters express themselves and relate to each
other. I will also change, when I can, background information from
"uninformed" writers in order to make it as consistent as possible with my
interpretation of how the (Swedish) Duck universe works.
To give an example: If I receive a story where Uncle Scrooge was born in
China, I will try to change that to Scotland because that's the way I feel
it should be. If the plot doesn't allow for such a change, I will ignore
that "fact" and try to come up with another reason for Scrooge to go to
China, or whatever the case may be. Of course, this extreme example would
never pass the editors nowadays. But there might be similar, less obvious
cases, where I will apply the same reasoning.
Now, in my work, #4) above is vastly more important than #1). This can't be
emphasized enough. My job is not to be 100% faithful to every word I receive
from the original writers (through their editors). My job is to write a
dialog for the comics that reads and works well in Swedish. At times, this
involves some editing. Some of this editing should perhaps be done by
editors before me, but if I feel that more is needed, I'll go ahead and do it.
Even though the different writers and artists now are credited with their
names, making it possible for every reader to compare their different
styles; taken altogether they are all in the same issue of the Swedish
"Kalle Anka & C:o". And that magazine needs some consistency within it. This
is absolutely not to say that I try to make all writers look exactly the
same (which no doubt some editors would encourage). Even in the Swedish
version, anyone with some knowledge could easily tell a William Van Horn
script from a Don Rosa or a Charlie Martin... but there will be a fair
amount of Stefan Dios in all of them. Hopefully, all this together implies
some degree of "Duck tradition", as well as some development of styles and
characters.
Then again, having said all this, I will admit that I might be more inclined
to stay even closer to all originals now that we do publish the writers'
names. If I feel the decision is close, of course!
Many people brought up the extremely important point of not looking down
upon readers and treat them as simple-minded. This has been, perhaps, my
number one most cherished concept from the beginning. For more than ten
years, my editors consistently simplified my texts because they found them
too difficult and "high-brow" for the average reader. Sometimes I disagreed
with them, sometimes I guess they did the right thing. One thing I learned
from the process (and I am still learning) is that whatever we want to
"teach" must be smoothly woven into the story-telling and can't distract
from the flow of the reading. We are not a textbook in history (or
chemistry, astronomy, integral calculus, or even grammar). We are
entertainment... albeit, preferably, a reasonably sophisticated
brand of entertainment!
Now, this will be long-winded enough, so I'll move over to the specific case
in point. As noted, we already had an animated discussion about this, which
I thoroughly enjoyed. But seein' as how my worthy and esteemed opponent has
re-stated his case, please let me re-state mine. (Oh, I feel sorry for him
already. I'm sure he's a genuinely good man... he can't help being so
blatantly wrong in this case!)
In Don Rosa's "Treasury of Croesus", a very funny running gag is made by
Donald singing Groucho Marx' famous "Lydia, the Tattooed Lady" throughout
the story, confusing the female name Lydia with Lydia, the ancient kingdom
in Asia Minor. What to do for a translator?
Now, this is obviously a pun. A word-play. It totally depends on the name of
the woman and the country being the same. In many languages, including my
own, they have different names. Close, but not close enough. It would be
preposterous that the Swedish Donald (Kalle Anka) would think of a song
called "Lydia" when he hears the name "Lydien". So, this song just can't be
used. This is an easy decision. It has nothing to do with whether the song
is widely known or not. It has to do with the fact that it doesn't contain a
usable pun.
The familiarity of the song might be a factor if the names really were the
same. In that case, I would have gotten out my video copy of "A Day at the
Circus" to see if I could use the Swedish subtitles. (Which I did anyway,
incidentally, even though I knew there was a really long shot I could find
something to use. I like as much input as possible before I make a crucial
decision.) After that, I would have decided whether to use the song or not.
Probably I would have used it. Then I would have decided whether to use the
Swedish subtitles from the TV version, to find another Swedish version, or
to try to write my own Swedish lyrics. It would, of course, *never* have
been an option to keep the English lyrics intact!
To digress even further, a similar incident ocurred in another Rosa story,
"Last Sled to Dawson", where Scrooge recites several lines from a poem by
Robert Service. This poem, as well as the poet himself, is almost completely
unknown in
Sweden. But there was no pun involved, nor any other reason not to use it. I
went to the library and had them dig out everything they had on Service from
their dustiest vaults. I found out that some of his poems did exist in
Swedish translation, but apparently not this one. So I made my own, and
enjoyed it, too. (Whereas, in "Return to Xanadu", I used an existing
translation from Coleridge.)
But this time was different. I had to find another song than "Lydia" for
Donald. I couldn't think of any songs with any reasonable connections to
Asia Minor, but I did find one with a somewhat historical theme. I chose
ABBA's "Waterloo", which contains a few lines like
The history book on the shelf
Is always repeating itself
and so on. (There is both a Swedish and an English version. Naturally, I
used the Swedish one.) Now, the pun is gone, but there is still some kind of
a gag. And in the end, I gain an extra point in that (no spoiler intended)
it's shown that history really repeated itself more than anyone could
expect! All else I had to do was make sure that Donald's cue lines from the
others contained references to "history", not only "Lydia".
It could be argued that Rosa's stories always are set in a time many years
before ABBA, so Donald couldn't know about this song. I understand that
argument, and I would have been happier if the song was older. Still, that's
not enough to make me look for something else. This is a Rosa story set in
the "present". Although, by Don's own admission, he'd like that "present" to
be somewhere in the 50's, it's rarely spelled out in the stories. I would
certainly avoid using an ABBA song in a story like "Life of Scrooge", which
is decidedly set in a specific time in the past.
Would I use it in, say, a Barks reprint that everybody knows was written in the
1940's? I did once, long ago, and got admonished by some friends. I
countered by arguing that the story itself wasn't tied to any specific year,
but was written for the then-present time, and just as easily could be
viewed as to be set in our present time. But I don't know if I'd do the same
today. Maybe I've grown a little more careful.
(By the way, if I wanted to, I could point out that Service's poem mentioned
above wasn't published when Scrooge was in Yukon. But Don could easily argue
that Service might have written it many years before, and maybe shown it to
Scrooge when they made friends somewhere. Just as easily as Geronimo could
slip away from Florida to Arizona! I have no problem with that. The poem
really fits perfectly into the story and the character.)
Back to Lydia. So, I lost a reference to Groucho Marx, but I put in one to
ABBA. I'll admit that it's different, but who is to say it is worse? I'm as
huge a Marx fan as anybody. I'd love to spread Grouchism across the world
any day I can. But in this case, I'm proud to say I didn't let this fact
muddle my professional integrity. Note that this has nothing in the world to
do with looking down on the readers, removing cultural references, or
de-sophisticate the stories.
Finally, I'll say something about the "solution" to keep the English lyrics
intact in the translation, and put in a footnote explaining what's it all
about. I'm still amazed that someone could really, seriously, suggest
something like this for a Disney comic. If any translator does that, in any
country, I hope that person gets sacked immediately for not doing his or her
job!
Well, maybe I shouldn't say "any country", much as I pretty darn would like
to. I don't know enough about Disney tradition in Italy. It might be very
different from Sweden or any other country. But I would, never, never, ever
consider having Donald Duck speak a foreign language in the Swedish "Kalle
Anka" (unless, of course, it's part of a story where he talks to a
foreigner, or something like that). In a case like this, the notion is
absurd. It is one hundred percent unthinkable. Sweden may get more and more
Americanized nowadays, with shop signs, movie titles, and advertisements in
English. And Donald Duck may be American... but Kalle Anka is Swedish. He
doesn't sing in English. It can't be done. No way, never, ever. I'll defend
that to my death.
Not to mention the, to me, rather obvious fact that a footnote would disturb the
flow and pace of the story!
I won't argue whether the actual Italian translators picked a good or a bad
solution in the song they chose. Inasmuch as Lydia would be close to the
same name for the country and the woman, I can imagine them keeping the
original, if they liked, but with Italian lyrics. And I may accept that a
better choice than "Waterloo" could have been found for the Swedish version,
even if I liked it more than many others of my sometimes forced solutions to
similar problems... what with the extra effect in the end, and all. But I'll
*never* accept that keeping the English text intact, or keeping the Lydia
song at all, would be a viable solution. I don't know what Don himself
thinks about this. I wouldn't want him to feel offended that his fine
Marxian gag is gone, but if he does, I can't do anything about it. I can't
apologize for this, because I'm absolutely certain I did the right thing.
Might be the only time that happened, but if so, this was it!
I'm sure I've taken up a whole digest by now. But I've said my part. And I
still love you all.
Sorry I had to bother you with something as self-evident as this!
Stefan Dios
Malmo, Sweden
>-------
>BROR
>
>>I REALLY don't think that any translator IGNORED that song since
>>it's widely known even outside the U.S.
>
>Yes and no.
>
>Yes : they did IGNORE it, which means they recognized the reference,
>and purposedly avoided to use it in the translation, for reasons that
>are technically sensible but, IMO, thus spoiling the fun of it.
>
>No : the song is NOT widely known outside USA, and it will never be,
>if treated this way.
>
>>BUT the song and the jokes around it are virtually unstranslatable,
>>and to leave the lyrics unchanged or try some obscure translation of
>>the lyrics would make a story literally unreadable.
>
>Totally disagree, sorry. What's the difference between "Lydia the
>tattooed lady" and "dance, Lydia dance" (an old, silly Italian song,
>where the original actually said "dance, LINDA, dance") to the reader
>UNAWARE of EITHER songs, which is very likely, *especially* the
>younger readers ?
>
>>As in the case of "Mark Twain" references, I don't think a translator
>>can be so close to the original and still produce a good and redable
>>comic in another language.
>
>Disagree, again. You seem to join the league of "It's just entertainment"
>fans, here, while I'm totally with the various folks that pointed out,
>while discussing matters like the "workers' paradise" case, that one can
>actually LEARN something new, while entertaining oneself reading comics.
>
>Again, there's quite a few possibilities here, like
>
>1. somebody KNOWING of the Marx Bros. would enjoy the gag A LOT
> (I, for one, ROTFL for days after reading that... :-)
>2. somebody NOT KNOWING of the Marx, but interested in classic
> comedy could investigate the matter further.
>3. somebody NOT KNOWING of the Marx and UNINTERESTED in comedy could
> just go "oh, DD sings a silly song", and keep reading the rest
> unaffected by the incident.
>
>Being things as they are, the situation is actually
>
>1. somebody KNOWING of the Marx Bros. could NOT enjoy the gag because
> it's not there.
>2. somebody NOT KNOWING of the Marx, but interested in classic
> comedy could NOT investigate the matter further, because he/she
> wouldn't know there's anything to investigate.
>3. somebody NOT KNOWING of the Marx and UNINTERESTED in comedy
> just goes "oh, DD sings a silly song", and keeps reading the rest
> unaffected by the incident.
>
>So, where's the good in all that? OK, the gag itself remains (Donald
>*obviously knowing* of Lydia, and singing the song), but it's not
>THAT song, so at least HALF of the fun is lost...
>And, before you or somebody else would point out that again, NO! I don't
>think that a note (or leaving the text in English) would spoil the
>"entertainment" for the non-English-literate reader.
>It would ADD to it, IMHO, and HELP them better understand Rosa's ways of
>wit.
>And, I'd like to point out also that on "Zio Paperone", probably prompted
>by fans (not me, though :-), they have recently started to put footnotes
>in Rosa stories, after receiving an avalanche of disappointed letters
>about
>an incorrect translation of "Prestor John" ("Prete Gianni" in Italian)
>as...
>"Prestor John" (name & surname) in the Xanadu story.
>
>Besides, I really hope Don Rosa himself wouldn't grow tired of putting
>his learned and witty references in his stories, seeing as they are
>wasted in some European publications...
>
>[to Anders]
>>perhaps you can translate that into "single-minded" or
>>"simple-minded" persons....
>
>Which is exactly how I DON'T LIKE to be treated by the publishers of
>my favourite comics. I've always thought that a comic for "the family"
>means that adults and children could both enjoy the stuff, at different
>levels of course, and that more "complicated" matters should be
>discussed with, and explained to the kids. Who will, eventually, grow
>up themselves, too, and I have a strong suspicion that they won't
>re-read the "simple-minded" stories, when they do grow up, as we
>do with, say, the Gottfredson stuff... (which we don't get reprinted
>because it is "complicated", un-PC and could "disturb" the young readers'
>fragile minds....) but they most likely *will* re-read the Rosa
>stories... missing the gags again, unless the publishers' attitude
>on the subject would change. Three Cheers for Disney Italia, here.
>
>Again, sorry for bringing up an old polemic again, I won't insist on
>the subject. Not too often, at least...:-)
>
Francesco Spreafico
Disney comics Digest V98 #222
Message 111 -
1998-09-11 at 01:08:45
Hello!
ANDERS:
>Has Mickey ever showed teeth in a comics (maybe by Murry or Gottfredson)?
Now, off the top of my head I remembered seeing teeth in "MM Joins the Foreign
Legion", so I went check and actually Mickey's teeth are shown in at least two
strips: 5-5 and 7-14 (that is the one I recalled).
But I think that they're shown in many other stories too.
And for Don Rosa's ducks... well he'll sure know better than me :), but when a
duck needs a golden denture he probably has (or *had*) teeth (And Hugh "Seafoam"
McDuck's golden denture is shown in Lo$ chapter 1)
About Gottfredson.. I'm very happy to hear that we'll soon have a whole book
about him! Thanks Frank (and Leonardo Gori too!). Last week I've finally been
able to lay hands on "Don Rosa e il rinascimento disneyano" (better late than
ever :-) and I loved it!
So as soon as this new one reaches Milan's comicbooks I'll get it!
Ciao!
Francesco
--
"Yahooo! E' lui! Proprio lui in persona!" - U$
ANDERS:
>Has Mickey ever showed teeth in a comics (maybe by Murry or Gottfredson)?
Now, off the top of my head I remembered seeing teeth in "MM Joins the Foreign
Legion", so I went check and actually Mickey's teeth are shown in at least two
strips: 5-5 and 7-14 (that is the one I recalled).
But I think that they're shown in many other stories too.
And for Don Rosa's ducks... well he'll sure know better than me :), but when a
duck needs a golden denture he probably has (or *had*) teeth (And Hugh "Seafoam"
McDuck's golden denture is shown in Lo$ chapter 1)
About Gottfredson.. I'm very happy to hear that we'll soon have a whole book
about him! Thanks Frank (and Leonardo Gori too!). Last week I've finally been
able to lay hands on "Don Rosa e il rinascimento disneyano" (better late than
ever :-) and I loved it!
So as soon as this new one reaches Milan's comicbooks I'll get it!
Ciao!
Francesco
--
"Yahooo! E' lui! Proprio lui in persona!" - U$
Mattias Hallin
GotLL error
Message 112 -
1998-09-11 at 09:10:46
At 07.17 1998-09-10, Don Rosa wrote:
>I sure have a memory of it being you. Maybe it was Stefan Dios, then? Or
>another of my Swedish friends? And then were you the fella who spotted my
>error in chapter 3 of the "Lo$" of having the Professor from Birmingham
>still alive (it had been so long since I'd read "Lost in the Andes" that I'd
>forgotten the bit about him "passing into the long sleep"). But whoever
>*that* was, it was another instance when I was able to correct a bonehead
>error for subsequent reprintings.
Don,
I've been trying to recall, and what I strongly suspect is that it was
indeed Stefan Diös who spotted the error in GotLL, *but that it was I who
wrote to you about it*! This was before Stefan got himself connected to the
Internet, and I do distinctly remember writing to you on Stefan's behalf
several times, and I do equally distinctly remember that one of these times
it was because of some points he wished to make about the GotLL. One of
which may well have concerned that chronological error -- that I don't
remember absolutely. Do you remember, Stefan?
As for spotting the professah being shown alive when he ought to have been
dead, I'm pretty sure that the chap who noticed and told you that was Simon
Sahlberg, then NAFS(k) whiz-kid supreme. I it was not.
All the best,
/Mattias
*** Mattias Hallin ** Brussels ** Belgium ** <(Email removed)> ***
* *
* "Oh bury me thar! With my battered git-tar! *
************* A-screamin' my heart out fer yew!" *************
--------------------------------
End of Disney comics Digest V98 Issue #223
******************************************
>I sure have a memory of it being you. Maybe it was Stefan Dios, then? Or
>another of my Swedish friends? And then were you the fella who spotted my
>error in chapter 3 of the "Lo$" of having the Professor from Birmingham
>still alive (it had been so long since I'd read "Lost in the Andes" that I'd
>forgotten the bit about him "passing into the long sleep"). But whoever
>*that* was, it was another instance when I was able to correct a bonehead
>error for subsequent reprintings.
Don,
I've been trying to recall, and what I strongly suspect is that it was
indeed Stefan Diös who spotted the error in GotLL, *but that it was I who
wrote to you about it*! This was before Stefan got himself connected to the
Internet, and I do distinctly remember writing to you on Stefan's behalf
several times, and I do equally distinctly remember that one of these times
it was because of some points he wished to make about the GotLL. One of
which may well have concerned that chronological error -- that I don't
remember absolutely. Do you remember, Stefan?
As for spotting the professah being shown alive when he ought to have been
dead, I'm pretty sure that the chap who noticed and told you that was Simon
Sahlberg, then NAFS(k) whiz-kid supreme. I it was not.
All the best,
/Mattias
*** Mattias Hallin ** Brussels ** Belgium ** <(Email removed)> ***
* *
* "Oh bury me thar! With my battered git-tar! *
************* A-screamin' my heart out fer yew!" *************
--------------------------------
End of Disney comics Digest V98 Issue #223
******************************************
Gertrude.Toh
Disney comics Digest V98 #222
Message 113 -
1998-09-11 at 10:48:45
Please do not include my name in your list.
Thanks and regards
Gertrude
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Disney comics Digest V98 #222
Author: <(Email removed)> at E-Mail
Date: 9/10/98 9:58 AM
[To unsubscribe, send a message to <(Email removed)>
with the subject "unsubscribe". To get help, send "help" instead.]
Disney comics Digest Volume 98 : Issue 222
Contents:
Don Rosa re: Digest #221
Mattias Hallin re: Digest #221
Frank Stajano Re: Disney comics Digest V98 #221
Daniel van Eijmeren Ludwig Von Drake's non-existance
Daniel van Eijmeren HTML-mail=20
Daniel van Eijmeren Duke of Baloni, second-richest duck
Daniel van Eijmeren Re: Donald triumphing over Scrooge
Daniel van Eijmeren Hands off! Don't touch!
Daniel van Eijmeren Photo's of Barks in Denmark, 1994
Daniel van Eijmeren Square eggs and The Cruise of the
Kawa willot eleve promo 98 Gottfredson
Anders_Chr._Sivebaek Duck-teeth
Vidar Svendsen Danes!
Fluks, H.W. Lucca, Italy
- ----------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 00:18:04 -0400
From: "Don Rosa" <(Email removed)>
To: "Disney comics ML" <(Email removed)>
Subject: re: Digest #221
From: "Kalle Hermansson"
>>>>Don Rosa:
My intention was **not** to search errors, I was just curious about that
horse and as Geronimo died first in 1909 it might have happen. In the
Duck universe anything is possible......
Oh, I didn't think you were being captious... not at all! I actually enjoy
it when readers try to find such goofs! First, that shows that they are
paying close and kindly attention -- I know that they would never try that
with any of the other writers who create their entire background-history
superstructures from scratch, and I like the fact that readers know that my
stories (simply because they are of a different style) are based in true
history. Second, sometimes a reader *does* find a bonehead error, and I can
change the error in future reprintings and prevent the goof from making me
look bad again -- such a error was found by Mattias Hallin in "Guardians of
the Lost Library" where I had Marco Polo doing something 50 years before he
was born... and I did new art, changing several pages of the story,
correcting the error... and I see that that story was just used in the 50th
anniversary edition of Sweden's KALLE ANKA *in the corrected version*.
Great!
But I disagree that "in the Duck universe anything is possible"... at least
that is not true in my stories. For instance, Barnum was on his death-bed,
so the world thought, throughout 1889... if that had still been true in
1890, even if he were still alive and recovered in 1891, I could not have
used him in my 1890 story. And if Buffalo Bill and Annie had still been in
Europe in 1890, I could not have used them in my story since their presence
in Europe would have been undeniable, and too long an ocean-voyage and
train-trip away from Arizona. But Geronimo was simply, reportedly, on a
reservation in Florida in 1890, and might have slipped away if I needed him
to.
From: "Dan Shane"
>>>>To disable HTML in Outlook (97 or 98 -- it doesn't matter), add the
email
address for the Disney Comics Mailing List to your Personal Address Book
(choose NEW ENTRY | INTERNET ADDRESS in your........
And so on and so forth, yattata yattata.... Folks, THIS is the guy whom you
can thank (or cuss?) for me even being here. He is my local Computer Guru
who tells my computer how to do its tricks and tells me which buttons to
push to make me feel like I'm its master.
And to "Eta Beta": thank you for an argument in favor of translators *not*
pointlessly sabotaging humor that might (or might not?) be over the heads of
a few readers... an argument so scintillating and indisputable that I'm
placing it in a "Keeper" file (yeah, one set up by Dan Shane!). I wish every
editor and translator could read it (but I still don't think some of them
would "get" it). I especially would like to show it to those
editors/translators who took my homage-references to Osbourne and
Talliaferro in "WHADDALOTTAJARGON" and replaced O & T's names with
cutie-nonsense names, or, unbelievably, their *own* names!
No, I'll never tire of putting obscure gags or historical references into my
stories, but you're right --it grows frustrating how little (well, *none*)
influence I have over the fidelity of the translations. All I can do now is
what I just did when sending in my "Lost Dutchman's Mine" story final-script
today -- I write on the first page "TRANSLATORS: change no character or
place names! They are all researched and authentic! Please don't sabotage my
story!" But I never know how far that instruction will go or who will care
about it. Some editors care a lot, like my immediate editor Byron, or the
Gladstone folks or... well, I shan't make a list... but other editors have
their own ideas about what is proper for their perception of their readers,
and it's their ballgame. As a lawyer once said somewhere: "fickus fackus
fumdeedledum... to the landlord belong the doorknobs".
- ----------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 07:28:28 +0200
From: (Email removed) (Mattias Hallin)
To: (Email removed)
Subject: re: Digest #221
At 00.18 1998-09-09, Don Rosa wrote:
>such a error was found by Mattias Hallin in "Guardians of
>the Lost Library" where I had Marco Polo doing something 50 years before he
>was born
DON,
Are you quite sure it was *I* who told you that?! You see, while I've
certainly picked a fair number of nits in your stories over the years, I
just don't recall noticing *that*, and I'm rather anxious not to be
credited with a discovery I didn't make. But maybe I did? I just can't
recall, and unfortunately I never kept those contributions I made to the
list from my workplace e-mail address, before I got myself a private
connection.
But perhaps someone else *does* rememeber making such a contribution? Or
maybe I'll be forgettin' my own head next?
All the best, though, from
/Mattias
*** Mattias Hallin ** Brussels ** Belgium ** <(Email removed)> ***
* *
* "Oh bury me thar! With my battered git-tar! *
************* A-screamin' my heart out fer yew!" *************
- ----------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 11:11:36 +0100
From: Frank Stajano <(Email removed)>
To: (Email removed)
Cc: Eta Beta <(Email removed)>, (Email removed)
Subject: Re: Disney comics Digest V98 #221
ETA BETA:
>>Leonardo GORI - Francesco STAJANO
>>Il Mago di Topolino: FLOYD GOTTFREDSON fra Walt Disney e Ub Iwerks
>>Editrice Comic Art
>Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy! Am I GLAD about that... :-))))))))))))))))
Thanks! That's the best kind of reward for all the work that went into it.
You, if anyone, should be doubly interested in it, given the alias you've
chosen for yourself. We go into Eega Beeva in quite some depth...
There is now a page showing a few cute snippets such as details from
original art where you can see Gottfredson's blue pencils and the ink on
top and the "retino" (what's the name for that self-sticking dot mask in
English? I only have English dictionaries here at the office, no Ita-Eng)
and the little piece of paper with the printed (c) message and so on...
just beautiful!
http://i.am/floyd.gottfredson/
Any more news about the book (including the graphical timeline when
available) will appear there.
Let me say that I *entirely agree* with your comments about translations in
the rest of your message (to BROR) and that I wrote at length about similar
issues in the book, examining several cases of things that were lost along
the way. To me the really good translator is the one with the humility of
being totally *transparent*. Of course, this takes a lot more work and
skill than just translating in a "free" way that displays the translator's
own personality, but it's work that I greatly appreciate when I find it,
and I can assure you that I recognise it when it's there (as I am sure you
do too).
Frank (http://i.am/filologo.disneyano) http://www.orl.co.uk/~fms
- ----------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 15:13:37
From: Daniel van Eijmeren <(Email removed)>
To: (Email removed)
Subject: Ludwig Von Drake's non-existance
KALLE HERMANSON, 31 August 1998:
> My name is Kalle Hermansson and I sit in Sweden writing into this list
> for the first time.
Welcome!
> But theres one thing who s bothering me and thats when Daniel van
> Eijmeren wrote:
>> just like something similar has happened to Ludwig Von Drake who now
>> also doesn't seem to exist.
> whats the meaning whit doesn t seem to exist?? (and *also*??) sounds
> strange!!
I'm sure there are people who can answer this better than me, but Ludwig
Von Drake's non-existance is a descision of the Egmont publishers. This
means that they won't publish stories containing Ludwig Von Drake anymore.
An exception is the Scrooge McDuck 50 years anniversary story "A Little
Something Special" where Don Rosa included Ludwig as part of the Duck
family. He's only partly visible and from the back, so the editor would not
notice him (or not feel bothered by his appearance).
Another such story is the H-coded "The Pied Piper of Duckburg". (A story
initiated by Barks in the late 1950s, finished by Don Rosa in the late
1980s). In a rat-filled street-overview Ludwig Von Drake can be seen
looking out of a window. (I have no idea if Ludwig was non-existing at
that time, though.)
BTW. There are more characters non-existant at Egmont, but I have no
idea which ones.
Greetings,
--- Daniel
- ----------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 16:24:43
From: Daniel van Eijmeren <(Email removed)>
To: (Email removed)
Subject: HTML-mail=20
DAN SHANE, 8 September 1998:
> To disable HTML in Outlook (97 or 98 -- it doesn't matter), add the
> email address for the Disney Comics Mailing List to your Personal
> Address Book (choose NEW ENTRY | INTERNET ADDRESS [...]
Could this technical info be included somewhere on the "Disney comics"
pages? This way there's a file we can refer to when people use html in
their mails.
I think it would even be nicer if this information would be broadened
with such technical info on other programmes used by people here. Not
only on html-mails, also on the "quoted-printable" ones which get
messed up in the plain-text digests (for example by containing annoying
"=20" signs).
I would love to contribute on Internet Explorer 3.0's e-mail programme
Internet Mail, but then I need someone with an English version for the
exact names of the options (I'm using a Dutch one).
Greetings,
--- Daniel (wishing e-mail could have stayed as compatible as it
originally was.)
- ----------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 15:52:49
From: Daniel van Eijmeren <(Email removed)>
To: (Email removed)
Subject: Duke of Baloni, second-richest duck
ARTHUR FARIA, 6 September 1998:
> [About Barks' WDC 148 ten-pager] Well, I know two Brazilian versions
> of that story: the first was published in "Tio Patinhas" #41, 1968.
> Uncle Scrooge says (page 7, panel 4): "You are the Duke of <something>,
> the *second richest man in the world!*" But, in a reprint (Tio Patinhas
> #161, 1978), the same panel shows: "You are the Duke of <something>,
> the *third richest man in the world!*"
In the original, Scrooge says: "I *know you*! I saw your *picture* in
the paper this morning! I clipped it out! You're the Duke of Baloni, the
*second-richest duck in the world*!"
Barks submitted this story on 12 June 1952, preceding Flintheart
Glomgold's debut appearance in "The Second-richest Duck" (US 15,
submitted on 2 February 1956).
Greetings,
--- Daniel
http://www.caiw.nl/~dve/barks/index.html
"Glory be! That mug looks *just like me*! I'm *saved*!"
Donald Duck, WDC 148
- ----------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 15:39:16
From: Daniel van Eijmeren <(Email removed)>
To: (Email removed)
Subject: Re: Donald triumphing over Scrooge
DAVID KING, 5 September 1998:
> It's almost axiomatic that when Donald tries to outfox Scrooge,
> Scrooge wins. I know of only one story where Donald decidedly gets the
> better of Scrooge: [...] Does anyone know of any other stories where
> Donald wins?
I can add two to the ones already mentioned:
- The Magic Hourglass, OS 291: Donald triumphs mentally over Scrooge at
the end of the story.
- Only a Poor Old Man, OS 386: In the beginning of the Donald triumphs
mentally over Scrooge by obviously not taking serious what Scrooge is
telling and just talking along with him. (This is one of my many
favourite Barks-moments.) On the last page of the story, Donald
triumphs mentally again but now also financially. (Scrooge gets the
last word on Donald's comment, though.)
There's also a great Dutch story of Donald triumphing mentally over
Gladstone Glander. You should see Gladstone's face after Donald
asks him: "But do you have any *friends*?"
(I think this story is definitely worth a USA reprint!)
Greetings,
--- Daniel
- ----------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 16:05:13
From: Daniel van Eijmeren <(Email removed)>
To: (Email removed)
Subject: Hands off! Don't touch!
DARREL C. RODEN, 6 September 1998:
> I subscribed to this list a few days ago
Welcome!
> (unfortunately, I didn't know it existed until then) and finally
> figured out how to retrieve some of the previous issues from the
> archives.
The early years, 1992 to (most of) 1995, are available somewhere on
Per Starback's "Disney comics" pages.
> 1. Does anybody know who did the cover for (Gold Key - March, 1979)
> Daisy and Donald #9? It's a great gag cover with Daisy decorating a
> cake with the words "Hands Off"and Donald looking rather frustrated.
> I had the great good fortune to obtain the original art and am in the
> process of framing it for my bride of (almost) ten years. I would like
> to credit the artist on the matting for the picture if possible.
I have no idea who did this cover, but what I do know is that there
is also a Barks-version of it. It was an art-only cover for WDC 153,
submitted on 2 October 1952. The cover contains Donald and the nephews,
Donald being the one who writes "Don't touch" on the pie.
Greetings,
--- Daniel
http://www.caiw.nl/~dve/barks/index.html
- ----------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 17:39:20
From: Daniel van Eijmeren <(Email removed)>
To: (Email removed)
Subject: Photo's of Barks in Denmark, 1994
While rowing over the World Wide Web, I found a page which contained three
colourphoto's of Barks' visit to Denmark in 1994. It's called Gizmo's page
and the URL is "http://users.cybercity.dk/~ccc18953/home.html"
Greetings,
Blinding signs flap flicker flicker flicker
--- Daniel BLAM! POW! POW!
Stairway scare Dan Dare who's there...
Syd Barrett's Pink Floyd, 1967
(a comic-book reference?)
- ----------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 18:28:30
From: Daniel van Eijmeren <(Email removed)>
To: (Email removed)
Subject: Square eggs and The Cruise of the Kawa
In private mail someone (a visitor of my site?) wrote me in private
to ask if Barks knew of a book called "The Cruise of the Kawa" by
Walter E. Traprock from 1921.
The following information is from the e-mail:
This was purporting to be an exciting travel story from the South
Seas. The book was a hoax, a satire on travel stories, and in it
there is a nice picture of four square eggs lying in a nest waiting
to be hatched. The eggs aren't only square, they actually have black
spots and look exactly like dice! The eggs were laid by the "Fatu-
Liva bird".
I don't know anything about this book. In 1975 Barks himself said about
the eggs' origin: "Square eggs have been a joke for more years than I've
been on earth". I remember hearing people talking about breeding chickens
that would lay square eggs from the time I was a little child."
In the e-mail I was also asked if there are any theories about where Carl
Barks got his inspiration for stories and if it could be that the "Cruise
of the Kawa" was mentioned in the National Geographic.
Any information is very welcome. Is there also someone who could scan
the mentioned picture of the nest with the square eggs? (Please contact
me first before sending any by e-mail.)
Greetings,
--- Daniel
http://www.caiw.nl/~dve/barks/index.html
- ----------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 19:52:02 +0200
From: willot eleve promo 98 <(Email removed)>
To: (Email removed)
Subject: Gottfredson
Frank:
Speaking of Gottfredson, someone gave me a photocopy of an ad drawn by
Floyd G. in 1948. It shows MM and one of his nephews. Does someone know
where this drawing was published? Maybe in some fanzines?
Francois
- ----------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 21:35:30 +0200
From: "Anders Chr. Sivebæk" <(Email removed)>
To: <(Email removed)>
Subject: Duck-teeth
Hello Friends
The other day I was playing Trivial pursuit (the version for young
players) with some friends. Fortunately some of the questions
were about Disney and Disney Comics.
E.g. Does Donald Duck have teeth?" Well, the answer on the
back of the card was no! What do you think? Personally I've seen
Donald's and the other ducks' teeth some times. When Donald gets
angry and wants to punish the Kids, does he not sometimes show
his teeth, like dogs do, when they are angry? I think I remember some
Barks-stories where he showed teeth, but maybe not any Don Rosa-
stories (please correct me here, if I'm wrong!).
I have a blotting pad, where it says that *Pluto and Mickey* do seldom
show teeth, but maybe that's in cartoons. Has Mickey ever showed teeth
in a comics (maybe by Murry or Gottfredson)
- ----------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 15:37:09 +0200
From: Vidar Svendsen <(Email removed)>
To: (Email removed)
Subject: Danes!
Hello ye Danes
Could you tell me if there's a comics shop i Skagen?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vidar Svendsen http://home.sol.no/~vidasven
And he said all those numbers
made him numb,
which (he thinks) is why
they're called numbers
- ----------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 09:56:43 +0100
--------------------------------
End of Disney comics Digest V98 Issue #224
******************************************
Thanks and regards
Gertrude
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Disney comics Digest V98 #222
Author: <(Email removed)> at E-Mail
Date: 9/10/98 9:58 AM
[To unsubscribe, send a message to <(Email removed)>
with the subject "unsubscribe". To get help, send "help" instead.]
Disney comics Digest Volume 98 : Issue 222
Contents:
Don Rosa re: Digest #221
Mattias Hallin re: Digest #221
Frank Stajano Re: Disney comics Digest V98 #221
Daniel van Eijmeren Ludwig Von Drake's non-existance
Daniel van Eijmeren HTML-mail=20
Daniel van Eijmeren Duke of Baloni, second-richest duck
Daniel van Eijmeren Re: Donald triumphing over Scrooge
Daniel van Eijmeren Hands off! Don't touch!
Daniel van Eijmeren Photo's of Barks in Denmark, 1994
Daniel van Eijmeren Square eggs and The Cruise of the
Kawa willot eleve promo 98 Gottfredson
Anders_Chr._Sivebaek Duck-teeth
Vidar Svendsen Danes!
Fluks, H.W. Lucca, Italy
- ----------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 00:18:04 -0400
From: "Don Rosa" <(Email removed)>
To: "Disney comics ML" <(Email removed)>
Subject: re: Digest #221
From: "Kalle Hermansson"
>>>>Don Rosa:
My intention was **not** to search errors, I was just curious about that
horse and as Geronimo died first in 1909 it might have happen. In the
Duck universe anything is possible......
Oh, I didn't think you were being captious... not at all! I actually enjoy
it when readers try to find such goofs! First, that shows that they are
paying close and kindly attention -- I know that they would never try that
with any of the other writers who create their entire background-history
superstructures from scratch, and I like the fact that readers know that my
stories (simply because they are of a different style) are based in true
history. Second, sometimes a reader *does* find a bonehead error, and I can
change the error in future reprintings and prevent the goof from making me
look bad again -- such a error was found by Mattias Hallin in "Guardians of
the Lost Library" where I had Marco Polo doing something 50 years before he
was born... and I did new art, changing several pages of the story,
correcting the error... and I see that that story was just used in the 50th
anniversary edition of Sweden's KALLE ANKA *in the corrected version*.
Great!
But I disagree that "in the Duck universe anything is possible"... at least
that is not true in my stories. For instance, Barnum was on his death-bed,
so the world thought, throughout 1889... if that had still been true in
1890, even if he were still alive and recovered in 1891, I could not have
used him in my 1890 story. And if Buffalo Bill and Annie had still been in
Europe in 1890, I could not have used them in my story since their presence
in Europe would have been undeniable, and too long an ocean-voyage and
train-trip away from Arizona. But Geronimo was simply, reportedly, on a
reservation in Florida in 1890, and might have slipped away if I needed him
to.
From: "Dan Shane"
>>>>To disable HTML in Outlook (97 or 98 -- it doesn't matter), add the
address for the Disney Comics Mailing List to your Personal Address Book
(choose NEW ENTRY | INTERNET ADDRESS in your........
And so on and so forth, yattata yattata.... Folks, THIS is the guy whom you
can thank (or cuss?) for me even being here. He is my local Computer Guru
who tells my computer how to do its tricks and tells me which buttons to
push to make me feel like I'm its master.
And to "Eta Beta": thank you for an argument in favor of translators *not*
pointlessly sabotaging humor that might (or might not?) be over the heads of
a few readers... an argument so scintillating and indisputable that I'm
placing it in a "Keeper" file (yeah, one set up by Dan Shane!). I wish every
editor and translator could read it (but I still don't think some of them
would "get" it). I especially would like to show it to those
editors/translators who took my homage-references to Osbourne and
Talliaferro in "WHADDALOTTAJARGON" and replaced O & T's names with
cutie-nonsense names, or, unbelievably, their *own* names!
No, I'll never tire of putting obscure gags or historical references into my
stories, but you're right --it grows frustrating how little (well, *none*)
influence I have over the fidelity of the translations. All I can do now is
what I just did when sending in my "Lost Dutchman's Mine" story final-script
today -- I write on the first page "TRANSLATORS: change no character or
place names! They are all researched and authentic! Please don't sabotage my
story!" But I never know how far that instruction will go or who will care
about it. Some editors care a lot, like my immediate editor Byron, or the
Gladstone folks or... well, I shan't make a list... but other editors have
their own ideas about what is proper for their perception of their readers,
and it's their ballgame. As a lawyer once said somewhere: "fickus fackus
fumdeedledum... to the landlord belong the doorknobs".
- ----------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 07:28:28 +0200
From: (Email removed) (Mattias Hallin)
To: (Email removed)
Subject: re: Digest #221
At 00.18 1998-09-09, Don Rosa wrote:
>such a error was found by Mattias Hallin in "Guardians of
>the Lost Library" where I had Marco Polo doing something 50 years before he
>was born
DON,
Are you quite sure it was *I* who told you that?! You see, while I've
certainly picked a fair number of nits in your stories over the years, I
just don't recall noticing *that*, and I'm rather anxious not to be
credited with a discovery I didn't make. But maybe I did? I just can't
recall, and unfortunately I never kept those contributions I made to the
list from my workplace e-mail address, before I got myself a private
connection.
But perhaps someone else *does* rememeber making such a contribution? Or
maybe I'll be forgettin' my own head next?
All the best, though, from
/Mattias
*** Mattias Hallin ** Brussels ** Belgium ** <(Email removed)> ***
* *
* "Oh bury me thar! With my battered git-tar! *
************* A-screamin' my heart out fer yew!" *************
- ----------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 11:11:36 +0100
From: Frank Stajano <(Email removed)>
To: (Email removed)
Cc: Eta Beta <(Email removed)>, (Email removed)
Subject: Re: Disney comics Digest V98 #221
ETA BETA:
>>Leonardo GORI - Francesco STAJANO
>>Il Mago di Topolino: FLOYD GOTTFREDSON fra Walt Disney e Ub Iwerks
>>Editrice Comic Art
>Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy! Am I GLAD about that... :-))))))))))))))))
Thanks! That's the best kind of reward for all the work that went into it.
You, if anyone, should be doubly interested in it, given the alias you've
chosen for yourself. We go into Eega Beeva in quite some depth...
There is now a page showing a few cute snippets such as details from
original art where you can see Gottfredson's blue pencils and the ink on
top and the "retino" (what's the name for that self-sticking dot mask in
English? I only have English dictionaries here at the office, no Ita-Eng)
and the little piece of paper with the printed (c) message and so on...
just beautiful!
http://i.am/floyd.gottfredson/
Any more news about the book (including the graphical timeline when
available) will appear there.
Let me say that I *entirely agree* with your comments about translations in
the rest of your message (to BROR) and that I wrote at length about similar
issues in the book, examining several cases of things that were lost along
the way. To me the really good translator is the one with the humility of
being totally *transparent*. Of course, this takes a lot more work and
skill than just translating in a "free" way that displays the translator's
own personality, but it's work that I greatly appreciate when I find it,
and I can assure you that I recognise it when it's there (as I am sure you
do too).
Frank (http://i.am/filologo.disneyano) http://www.orl.co.uk/~fms
- ----------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 15:13:37
From: Daniel van Eijmeren <(Email removed)>
To: (Email removed)
Subject: Ludwig Von Drake's non-existance
KALLE HERMANSON, 31 August 1998:
> My name is Kalle Hermansson and I sit in Sweden writing into this list
> for the first time.
Welcome!
> But theres one thing who s bothering me and thats when Daniel van
> Eijmeren wrote:
>> just like something similar has happened to Ludwig Von Drake who now
>> also doesn't seem to exist.
> whats the meaning whit doesn t seem to exist?? (and *also*??) sounds
> strange!!
I'm sure there are people who can answer this better than me, but Ludwig
Von Drake's non-existance is a descision of the Egmont publishers. This
means that they won't publish stories containing Ludwig Von Drake anymore.
An exception is the Scrooge McDuck 50 years anniversary story "A Little
Something Special" where Don Rosa included Ludwig as part of the Duck
family. He's only partly visible and from the back, so the editor would not
notice him (or not feel bothered by his appearance).
Another such story is the H-coded "The Pied Piper of Duckburg". (A story
initiated by Barks in the late 1950s, finished by Don Rosa in the late
1980s). In a rat-filled street-overview Ludwig Von Drake can be seen
looking out of a window. (I have no idea if Ludwig was non-existing at
that time, though.)
BTW. There are more characters non-existant at Egmont, but I have no
idea which ones.
Greetings,
--- Daniel
- ----------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 16:24:43
From: Daniel van Eijmeren <(Email removed)>
To: (Email removed)
Subject: HTML-mail=20
DAN SHANE, 8 September 1998:
> To disable HTML in Outlook (97 or 98 -- it doesn't matter), add the
> email address for the Disney Comics Mailing List to your Personal
> Address Book (choose NEW ENTRY | INTERNET ADDRESS [...]
Could this technical info be included somewhere on the "Disney comics"
pages? This way there's a file we can refer to when people use html in
their mails.
I think it would even be nicer if this information would be broadened
with such technical info on other programmes used by people here. Not
only on html-mails, also on the "quoted-printable" ones which get
messed up in the plain-text digests (for example by containing annoying
"=20" signs).
I would love to contribute on Internet Explorer 3.0's e-mail programme
Internet Mail, but then I need someone with an English version for the
exact names of the options (I'm using a Dutch one).
Greetings,
--- Daniel (wishing e-mail could have stayed as compatible as it
originally was.)
- ----------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 15:52:49
From: Daniel van Eijmeren <(Email removed)>
To: (Email removed)
Subject: Duke of Baloni, second-richest duck
ARTHUR FARIA, 6 September 1998:
> [About Barks' WDC 148 ten-pager] Well, I know two Brazilian versions
> of that story: the first was published in "Tio Patinhas" #41, 1968.
> Uncle Scrooge says (page 7, panel 4): "You are the Duke of <something>,
> the *second richest man in the world!*" But, in a reprint (Tio Patinhas
> #161, 1978), the same panel shows: "You are the Duke of <something>,
> the *third richest man in the world!*"
In the original, Scrooge says: "I *know you*! I saw your *picture* in
the paper this morning! I clipped it out! You're the Duke of Baloni, the
*second-richest duck in the world*!"
Barks submitted this story on 12 June 1952, preceding Flintheart
Glomgold's debut appearance in "The Second-richest Duck" (US 15,
submitted on 2 February 1956).
Greetings,
--- Daniel
http://www.caiw.nl/~dve/barks/index.html
"Glory be! That mug looks *just like me*! I'm *saved*!"
Donald Duck, WDC 148
- ----------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 15:39:16
From: Daniel van Eijmeren <(Email removed)>
To: (Email removed)
Subject: Re: Donald triumphing over Scrooge
DAVID KING, 5 September 1998:
> It's almost axiomatic that when Donald tries to outfox Scrooge,
> Scrooge wins. I know of only one story where Donald decidedly gets the
> better of Scrooge: [...] Does anyone know of any other stories where
> Donald wins?
I can add two to the ones already mentioned:
- The Magic Hourglass, OS 291: Donald triumphs mentally over Scrooge at
the end of the story.
- Only a Poor Old Man, OS 386: In the beginning of the Donald triumphs
mentally over Scrooge by obviously not taking serious what Scrooge is
telling and just talking along with him. (This is one of my many
favourite Barks-moments.) On the last page of the story, Donald
triumphs mentally again but now also financially. (Scrooge gets the
last word on Donald's comment, though.)
There's also a great Dutch story of Donald triumphing mentally over
Gladstone Glander. You should see Gladstone's face after Donald
asks him: "But do you have any *friends*?"
(I think this story is definitely worth a USA reprint!)
Greetings,
--- Daniel
- ----------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 16:05:13
From: Daniel van Eijmeren <(Email removed)>
To: (Email removed)
Subject: Hands off! Don't touch!
DARREL C. RODEN, 6 September 1998:
> I subscribed to this list a few days ago
Welcome!
> (unfortunately, I didn't know it existed until then) and finally
> figured out how to retrieve some of the previous issues from the
> archives.
The early years, 1992 to (most of) 1995, are available somewhere on
Per Starback's "Disney comics" pages.
> 1. Does anybody know who did the cover for (Gold Key - March, 1979)
> Daisy and Donald #9? It's a great gag cover with Daisy decorating a
> cake with the words "Hands Off"and Donald looking rather frustrated.
> I had the great good fortune to obtain the original art and am in the
> process of framing it for my bride of (almost) ten years. I would like
> to credit the artist on the matting for the picture if possible.
I have no idea who did this cover, but what I do know is that there
is also a Barks-version of it. It was an art-only cover for WDC 153,
submitted on 2 October 1952. The cover contains Donald and the nephews,
Donald being the one who writes "Don't touch" on the pie.
Greetings,
--- Daniel
http://www.caiw.nl/~dve/barks/index.html
- ----------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 17:39:20
From: Daniel van Eijmeren <(Email removed)>
To: (Email removed)
Subject: Photo's of Barks in Denmark, 1994
While rowing over the World Wide Web, I found a page which contained three
colourphoto's of Barks' visit to Denmark in 1994. It's called Gizmo's page
and the URL is "http://users.cybercity.dk/~ccc18953/home.html"
Greetings,
Blinding signs flap flicker flicker flicker
--- Daniel BLAM! POW! POW!
Stairway scare Dan Dare who's there...
Syd Barrett's Pink Floyd, 1967
(a comic-book reference?)
- ----------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 18:28:30
From: Daniel van Eijmeren <(Email removed)>
To: (Email removed)
Subject: Square eggs and The Cruise of the Kawa
In private mail someone (a visitor of my site?) wrote me in private
to ask if Barks knew of a book called "The Cruise of the Kawa" by
Walter E. Traprock from 1921.
The following information is from the e-mail:
This was purporting to be an exciting travel story from the South
Seas. The book was a hoax, a satire on travel stories, and in it
there is a nice picture of four square eggs lying in a nest waiting
to be hatched. The eggs aren't only square, they actually have black
spots and look exactly like dice! The eggs were laid by the "Fatu-
Liva bird".
I don't know anything about this book. In 1975 Barks himself said about
the eggs' origin: "Square eggs have been a joke for more years than I've
been on earth". I remember hearing people talking about breeding chickens
that would lay square eggs from the time I was a little child."
In the e-mail I was also asked if there are any theories about where Carl
Barks got his inspiration for stories and if it could be that the "Cruise
of the Kawa" was mentioned in the National Geographic.
Any information is very welcome. Is there also someone who could scan
the mentioned picture of the nest with the square eggs? (Please contact
me first before sending any by e-mail.)
Greetings,
--- Daniel
http://www.caiw.nl/~dve/barks/index.html
- ----------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 19:52:02 +0200
From: willot eleve promo 98 <(Email removed)>
To: (Email removed)
Subject: Gottfredson
Frank:
Speaking of Gottfredson, someone gave me a photocopy of an ad drawn by
Floyd G. in 1948. It shows MM and one of his nephews. Does someone know
where this drawing was published? Maybe in some fanzines?
Francois
- ----------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 21:35:30 +0200
From: "Anders Chr. Sivebæk" <(Email removed)>
To: <(Email removed)>
Subject: Duck-teeth
Hello Friends
The other day I was playing Trivial pursuit (the version for young
players) with some friends. Fortunately some of the questions
were about Disney and Disney Comics.
E.g. Does Donald Duck have teeth?" Well, the answer on the
back of the card was no! What do you think? Personally I've seen
Donald's and the other ducks' teeth some times. When Donald gets
angry and wants to punish the Kids, does he not sometimes show
his teeth, like dogs do, when they are angry? I think I remember some
Barks-stories where he showed teeth, but maybe not any Don Rosa-
stories (please correct me here, if I'm wrong!).
I have a blotting pad, where it says that *Pluto and Mickey* do seldom
show teeth, but maybe that's in cartoons. Has Mickey ever showed teeth
in a comics (maybe by Murry or Gottfredson)
- ----------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 15:37:09 +0200
From: Vidar Svendsen <(Email removed)>
To: (Email removed)
Subject: Danes!
Hello ye Danes
Could you tell me if there's a comics shop i Skagen?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vidar Svendsen http://home.sol.no/~vidasven
And he said all those numbers
made him numb,
which (he thinks) is why
they're called numbers
- ----------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 09:56:43 +0100
--------------------------------
End of Disney comics Digest V98 Issue #224
******************************************
Bror Hellman
Lydia, oh Lydia .. more Lydia...
Message 114 -
1998-09-11 at 11:01:45
> >BROR
>
> >>I REALLY don't think that any translator IGNORED that song since
> >>it's widely known even outside the U.S.
> >
> >Yes and no.
> >
> >Yes : they did IGNORE it, which means they recognized the reference,
> >and purposedly avoided to use it in the translation, for reasons that
> >are technically sensible but, IMO, thus spoiling the fun of it.
>
Well, to KEEP the english lyrics would spoil the fun for every native
reader since you can't expect them to accept a totally different
Donald and a foreign language just like that.
You know, everybody in the world doesn't speak english. In that case
a translation would not be necessary anywhere.
Besides, the puns regarding this song is virtually un-translatable
since they mostly refer to the ancient city/kingdom (?) of Lydia.
And Lydia isn't called "Lydia" in too many languages. In Swedish
for example it's called "Lydien".
A footnote is out of the question! A text filled with footnotes and
half the
text in a very foreign language would TOTALLY destroy any joy with
reading the darn thing. It's EXTREMLY annoying. And you can't expect
disney comics to be made for a very small "fan"-market who would enjoy
reading footnotes. The english market is actually the weakest of them
all.
And NO they didn't ignore it. I am truly convinced that every translator
working
with this story have put down a lot of work around this particular gag.
And the reason they didn't use it is, I am sure, because USING it would
have
spoiled the fun of it. That is the whole point. Then if the Italian
translator
didn't make it. Well, that's a pity, but it isn't a cause to bash every
translator
in the world, translation as a concept or even this particular italian
translator.
Translating are a very difficult and challenging job, and even the best
can do
mistakes or loose a gag from time to time. Heck, even Don Rosa himself
makes mistakes sometimes. The difference between Don and our translators
are that if Don Rosa thinks the flow of the story or if a gag doesn't
fit, he can
scrap the lot and start over again. A translator have can't scratch the
comic
he's working on. He must find some solution that works... And sometimes
he just can't... It may be a failure... It may be that it's impossible.
> >No : the song is NOT widely known outside USA, and it will never be,
> >if treated this way.
>
And the song *IS* widely known outside the U.S. of A. in fact, when I
checked it out
just this morning I learned that the song have been a hit for almost ten
years and
about four different artists in Sweden (!).
> >>BUT the song and the jokes around it are virtually unstranslatable,
> >>and to leave the lyrics unchanged or try some obscure translation of
> >>the lyrics would make a story literally unreadable.
> >
> >Totally disagree, sorry. What's the difference between "Lydia the
> >tattooed lady" and "dance, Lydia dance" (an old, silly Italian song,
> >where the original actually said "dance, LINDA, dance") to the reader
> >UNAWARE of EITHER songs, which is very likely, *especially* the
> >younger readers ?
>
You should be happy! It seems that the italian translator tried to stay
TOO close to the original. A cardinal sin for any translator.
Of course it's important to try to stay close to the original,
but if it's over done it will ruin it.
> >>As in the case of "Mark Twain" references, I don't think a
> translator
> >>can be so close to the original and still produce a good and redable
> >>comic in another language.
> >
> >Disagree, again. You seem to join the league of "It's just
> entertainment"
> >fans, here, while I'm totally with the various folks that pointed
> out,
> >while discussing matters like the "workers' paradise" case, that one
> can
> >actually LEARN something new, while entertaining oneself reading
> comics.
>
Yes, but you only learn if you want to read it in the first place. This
isn't
SCHOOLBOOKS we're talking about. We are talking about art and
entertainment. If the education doesn't fit into the story fluently,
then I'm sorry,
but then that bit's gotta go. I was the one who first pointed out that
one learns VERY MUCH from comics. But the learning must be on
terms with the story and never forced upon the reader since such
an approach would make the story extremely dull. And noone except
old american english teachers would like to read it.
It *IS* enternainment. Any education you get is a BONUS.
Fortunately, mixing facts and fiction seems to be something Don Rosa
masters to the fullest.
> >Again, there's quite a few possibilities here, like
> >
> >1. somebody KNOWING of the Marx Bros. would enjoy the gag A LOT
> > (I, for one, ROTFL for days after reading that... :-)
>
But you read the english version, didn't you? Why did you laugh?
Because
you recognized the song? Hardly amusing. I recognize it too.
Did you laugh because of the pun this song implicates? Well, so did I
even though I didn't roll around the on the floor a week making a fool
of myself.
Well, in Swedish, this pun simply wouldn't be there. And the song would
make
a Marx-fan or someone who remembered the hit-song just plain confused.
Why is it there? Why is Donald suddenly singing in English?
> >2. somebody NOT KNOWING of the Marx, but interested in classic
> > comedy could investigate the matter further.
>
Somebody who didn't know about Marx would be utterly confused and
wouldn't know
where to look.
> >3. somebody NOT KNOWING of the Marx and UNINTERESTED in comedy could
> > just go "oh, DD sings a silly song", and keep reading the rest
> > unaffected by the incident.
>
He would stop. read your footnotes. Be very confused. Read it again.
Wonder.
Talk to his nine-year old son (or daughter) and try to explain why
Donald Duck
does something completely and utterly confusing not realated to the
story and
propably skip the next story by Don Rosa, and propably write a letter to
the
Kalle Anka & C:o and complain since their stories are uncomprehensible
and
ask them why they are making stories that noone can read. :-)
A assume the kid in my example would enjoy the story more than his/her
parent because he/she wouldn't give a damn about the footnotes.
But sadly by substituting every good gag for footnotes, instead of
translating
them into gags that can be understood, our kid would propably think
the comic was plain booring.
> >Being things as they are, the situation is actually
> >
> >1. somebody KNOWING of the Marx Bros. could NOT enjoy the gag because
> > it's not there.
>
Well, even if the song was there translated or not, the gag wouldn't.
> >2. somebody NOT KNOWING of the Marx, but interested in classic
> > comedy could NOT investigate the matter further, because he/she
> > wouldn't know there's anything to investigate.
>
Well, if anyone who is interested in classic comedy wouldn't know
about the Marx Brothers, they wouldn't know what to investigate anyway.
> >3. somebody NOT KNOWING of the Marx and UNINTERESTED in comedy
> > just goes "oh, DD sings a silly song", and keeps reading the rest
> > unaffected by the incident.
> >
> >So, where's the good in all that? OK, the gag itself remains (Donald
> >*obviously knowing* of Lydia, and singing the song), but it's not
> >THAT song, so at least HALF of the fun is lost...
> >And, before you or somebody else would point out that again, NO! I
> don't
> >think that a note (or leaving the text in English) would spoil the
> >"entertainment" for the non-English-literate reader.
>
Well, it would, since it would destroy the flow and take the readers
attention
away from the story. it would not be as enjoyable to read. i don't think
Don Rosa ever wanted people to read his stories and stop
every other panel to read an article about certain intricacies.
Whe wrote a story with a good gag in English. The little I know
Don Rosa I know he's very anxious to give his readers (and of course
himself)
a good time and I don't think that he wants his readers to have to
read a lot of footnotes just because they don't read the
american-english language
and are familiar with every old american cultural reference.
Don could propable correct me there if I got him wrong there.
> >It would ADD to it, IMHO, and HELP them better understand Rosa's ways
> of
> >wit.
>
The point of a comic can never be to educate the readers about the
authors wits.
I write comics to get something through and to be read. I Write comics
because I
enjoy the result. NEVER would I try to write a comic to force something
uon anyone.
Nor my wits, opinions or beliefs.
> >And, I'd like to point out also that on "Zio Paperone", probably
> prompted
> >by fans (not me, though :-), they have recently started to put
> footnotes
> >in Rosa stories, after receiving an avalanche of disappointed letters
>
> >about an incorrect translation of "Prestor John" ("Prete Gianni" in
> Italian)
> >as... "Prestor John" (name & surname) in the Xanadu story.
>
What did the complain about?
> >Besides, I really hope Don Rosa himself wouldn't grow tired of
> putting
> >his learned and witty references in his stories, seeing as they are
> >wasted in some European publications...
>
They are never "wasted" even if you think so, just because every
european
language don't conform to american english in every aspect.
I know for a fact that Stefan Dios the Swedish translator of Don's
stories
*encourage* Don to write as Don feels like and *not* try to write the
stories
with the translators in mind. Because, as Stefan once said, "the better
source to translate from, the better result you get." And the better the
story is
to begin with, the more a really good translator will work to get the
translation
as good and entertaining as possible. A translation shouldn't be to
literal,
especially when it comes to comics, because a comic is a whole concept
and a literal translation would disturb the whole. He must adapt not
only the
words, but the meanings and the story to go with both the art and the
author original story. And *that* isn't accomplished by a number of
footnotes.
If they start to use footnotes in Italian comics, I presume they
unfortunately
have a bad translator or bad editors. I can't judge that since I can't
read the
Topolino myself.
> >[to Anders]
> >>perhaps you can translate that into "single-minded" or
> >>"simple-minded" persons....
> >
> >Which is exactly how I DON'T LIKE to be treated by the publishers of
> >my favourite comics. I've always thought that a comic for "the
> family"
> >means that adults and children could both enjoy the stuff, at
> different
> >levels of course, and that more "complicated" matters should be
> >discussed with, and explained to the kids. Who will, eventually, grow
> >up themselves, too, and I have a strong suspicion that they won't
> >re-read the "simple-minded" stories, when they do grow up, as we
> >do with, say, the Gottfredson stuff...
>
Well, Don Rosas stories are never simple-minded and AFAIK never
intended for simple-minded reading. But the policy of a publisher
and the translation of a story are two different matters.
A gag is a gag. And if the translator think it's funny enough and needs
to be there to educate someone, he could try to get an article after the
story to explain the untranslatable. But never, never, should he yield
to the original in such a way that he sacrifices the story just to
make some purist happy.
Steamboat Willie
>
> >>I REALLY don't think that any translator IGNORED that song since
> >>it's widely known even outside the U.S.
> >
> >Yes and no.
> >
> >Yes : they did IGNORE it, which means they recognized the reference,
> >and purposedly avoided to use it in the translation, for reasons that
> >are technically sensible but, IMO, thus spoiling the fun of it.
>
Well, to KEEP the english lyrics would spoil the fun for every native
reader since you can't expect them to accept a totally different
Donald and a foreign language just like that.
You know, everybody in the world doesn't speak english. In that case
a translation would not be necessary anywhere.
Besides, the puns regarding this song is virtually un-translatable
since they mostly refer to the ancient city/kingdom (?) of Lydia.
And Lydia isn't called "Lydia" in too many languages. In Swedish
for example it's called "Lydien".
A footnote is out of the question! A text filled with footnotes and
half the
text in a very foreign language would TOTALLY destroy any joy with
reading the darn thing. It's EXTREMLY annoying. And you can't expect
disney comics to be made for a very small "fan"-market who would enjoy
reading footnotes. The english market is actually the weakest of them
all.
And NO they didn't ignore it. I am truly convinced that every translator
working
with this story have put down a lot of work around this particular gag.
And the reason they didn't use it is, I am sure, because USING it would
have
spoiled the fun of it. That is the whole point. Then if the Italian
translator
didn't make it. Well, that's a pity, but it isn't a cause to bash every
translator
in the world, translation as a concept or even this particular italian
translator.
Translating are a very difficult and challenging job, and even the best
can do
mistakes or loose a gag from time to time. Heck, even Don Rosa himself
makes mistakes sometimes. The difference between Don and our translators
are that if Don Rosa thinks the flow of the story or if a gag doesn't
fit, he can
scrap the lot and start over again. A translator have can't scratch the
comic
he's working on. He must find some solution that works... And sometimes
he just can't... It may be a failure... It may be that it's impossible.
> >No : the song is NOT widely known outside USA, and it will never be,
> >if treated this way.
>
And the song *IS* widely known outside the U.S. of A. in fact, when I
checked it out
just this morning I learned that the song have been a hit for almost ten
years and
about four different artists in Sweden (!).
> >>BUT the song and the jokes around it are virtually unstranslatable,
> >>and to leave the lyrics unchanged or try some obscure translation of
> >>the lyrics would make a story literally unreadable.
> >
> >Totally disagree, sorry. What's the difference between "Lydia the
> >tattooed lady" and "dance, Lydia dance" (an old, silly Italian song,
> >where the original actually said "dance, LINDA, dance") to the reader
> >UNAWARE of EITHER songs, which is very likely, *especially* the
> >younger readers ?
>
You should be happy! It seems that the italian translator tried to stay
TOO close to the original. A cardinal sin for any translator.
Of course it's important to try to stay close to the original,
but if it's over done it will ruin it.
> >>As in the case of "Mark Twain" references, I don't think a
> translator
> >>can be so close to the original and still produce a good and redable
> >>comic in another language.
> >
> >Disagree, again. You seem to join the league of "It's just
> entertainment"
> >fans, here, while I'm totally with the various folks that pointed
> out,
> >while discussing matters like the "workers' paradise" case, that one
> can
> >actually LEARN something new, while entertaining oneself reading
> comics.
>
Yes, but you only learn if you want to read it in the first place. This
isn't
SCHOOLBOOKS we're talking about. We are talking about art and
entertainment. If the education doesn't fit into the story fluently,
then I'm sorry,
but then that bit's gotta go. I was the one who first pointed out that
one learns VERY MUCH from comics. But the learning must be on
terms with the story and never forced upon the reader since such
an approach would make the story extremely dull. And noone except
old american english teachers would like to read it.
It *IS* enternainment. Any education you get is a BONUS.
Fortunately, mixing facts and fiction seems to be something Don Rosa
masters to the fullest.
> >Again, there's quite a few possibilities here, like
> >
> >1. somebody KNOWING of the Marx Bros. would enjoy the gag A LOT
> > (I, for one, ROTFL for days after reading that... :-)
>
But you read the english version, didn't you? Why did you laugh?
Because
you recognized the song? Hardly amusing. I recognize it too.
Did you laugh because of the pun this song implicates? Well, so did I
even though I didn't roll around the on the floor a week making a fool
of myself.
Well, in Swedish, this pun simply wouldn't be there. And the song would
make
a Marx-fan or someone who remembered the hit-song just plain confused.
Why is it there? Why is Donald suddenly singing in English?
> >2. somebody NOT KNOWING of the Marx, but interested in classic
> > comedy could investigate the matter further.
>
Somebody who didn't know about Marx would be utterly confused and
wouldn't know
where to look.
> >3. somebody NOT KNOWING of the Marx and UNINTERESTED in comedy could
> > just go "oh, DD sings a silly song", and keep reading the rest
> > unaffected by the incident.
>
He would stop. read your footnotes. Be very confused. Read it again.
Wonder.
Talk to his nine-year old son (or daughter) and try to explain why
Donald Duck
does something completely and utterly confusing not realated to the
story and
propably skip the next story by Don Rosa, and propably write a letter to
the
Kalle Anka & C:o and complain since their stories are uncomprehensible
and
ask them why they are making stories that noone can read. :-)
A assume the kid in my example would enjoy the story more than his/her
parent because he/she wouldn't give a damn about the footnotes.
But sadly by substituting every good gag for footnotes, instead of
translating
them into gags that can be understood, our kid would propably think
the comic was plain booring.
> >Being things as they are, the situation is actually
> >
> >1. somebody KNOWING of the Marx Bros. could NOT enjoy the gag because
> > it's not there.
>
Well, even if the song was there translated or not, the gag wouldn't.
> >2. somebody NOT KNOWING of the Marx, but interested in classic
> > comedy could NOT investigate the matter further, because he/she
> > wouldn't know there's anything to investigate.
>
Well, if anyone who is interested in classic comedy wouldn't know
about the Marx Brothers, they wouldn't know what to investigate anyway.
> >3. somebody NOT KNOWING of the Marx and UNINTERESTED in comedy
> > just goes "oh, DD sings a silly song", and keeps reading the rest
> > unaffected by the incident.
> >
> >So, where's the good in all that? OK, the gag itself remains (Donald
> >*obviously knowing* of Lydia, and singing the song), but it's not
> >THAT song, so at least HALF of the fun is lost...
> >And, before you or somebody else would point out that again, NO! I
> don't
> >think that a note (or leaving the text in English) would spoil the
> >"entertainment" for the non-English-literate reader.
>
Well, it would, since it would destroy the flow and take the readers
attention
away from the story. it would not be as enjoyable to read. i don't think
Don Rosa ever wanted people to read his stories and stop
every other panel to read an article about certain intricacies.
Whe wrote a story with a good gag in English. The little I know
Don Rosa I know he's very anxious to give his readers (and of course
himself)
a good time and I don't think that he wants his readers to have to
read a lot of footnotes just because they don't read the
american-english language
and are familiar with every old american cultural reference.
Don could propable correct me there if I got him wrong there.
> >It would ADD to it, IMHO, and HELP them better understand Rosa's ways
> of
> >wit.
>
The point of a comic can never be to educate the readers about the
authors wits.
I write comics to get something through and to be read. I Write comics
because I
enjoy the result. NEVER would I try to write a comic to force something
uon anyone.
Nor my wits, opinions or beliefs.
> >And, I'd like to point out also that on "Zio Paperone", probably
> prompted
> >by fans (not me, though :-), they have recently started to put
> footnotes
> >in Rosa stories, after receiving an avalanche of disappointed letters
>
> >about an incorrect translation of "Prestor John" ("Prete Gianni" in
> Italian)
> >as... "Prestor John" (name & surname) in the Xanadu story.
>
What did the complain about?
> >Besides, I really hope Don Rosa himself wouldn't grow tired of
> putting
> >his learned and witty references in his stories, seeing as they are
> >wasted in some European publications...
>
They are never "wasted" even if you think so, just because every
european
language don't conform to american english in every aspect.
I know for a fact that Stefan Dios the Swedish translator of Don's
stories
*encourage* Don to write as Don feels like and *not* try to write the
stories
with the translators in mind. Because, as Stefan once said, "the better
source to translate from, the better result you get." And the better the
story is
to begin with, the more a really good translator will work to get the
translation
as good and entertaining as possible. A translation shouldn't be to
literal,
especially when it comes to comics, because a comic is a whole concept
and a literal translation would disturb the whole. He must adapt not
only the
words, but the meanings and the story to go with both the art and the
author original story. And *that* isn't accomplished by a number of
footnotes.
If they start to use footnotes in Italian comics, I presume they
unfortunately
have a bad translator or bad editors. I can't judge that since I can't
read the
Topolino myself.
> >[to Anders]
> >>perhaps you can translate that into "single-minded" or
> >>"simple-minded" persons....
> >
> >Which is exactly how I DON'T LIKE to be treated by the publishers of
> >my favourite comics. I've always thought that a comic for "the
> family"
> >means that adults and children could both enjoy the stuff, at
> different
> >levels of course, and that more "complicated" matters should be
> >discussed with, and explained to the kids. Who will, eventually, grow
> >up themselves, too, and I have a strong suspicion that they won't
> >re-read the "simple-minded" stories, when they do grow up, as we
> >do with, say, the Gottfredson stuff...
>
Well, Don Rosas stories are never simple-minded and AFAIK never
intended for simple-minded reading. But the policy of a publisher
and the translation of a story are two different matters.
A gag is a gag. And if the translator think it's funny enough and needs
to be there to educate someone, he could try to get an article after the
story to explain the untranslatable. But never, never, should he yield
to the original in such a way that he sacrifices the story just to
make some purist happy.
Steamboat Willie
Anna-Maija Ihander
Duck teeth
Message 115 -
1998-09-11 at 12:17:16
Don't forget Scrooge's hereditary golden denture!
------------------------------------------------
Anna-Maija Ihander < ^ ^ >
(Email removed) |O O|---------.
(___) ##### ||
To do is to be. -Descartes | ### ||
To be is to do. -Voltaire | |----| |#
Do be do be do. -Frank Sinatra |_| |_|
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------------------------
Anna-Maija Ihander < ^ ^ >
(Email removed) |O O|---------.
(___) ##### ||
To do is to be. -Descartes | ### ||
To be is to do. -Voltaire | |----| |#
Do be do be do. -Frank Sinatra |_| |_|
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Claudia Rege Cambrin
Lydia, oh Lydia (very long!)
Message 116 -
1998-09-11 at 13:05:12
I just wanted to say that I agree with Stefan Dios about the things he
wrote in Digest #223. I was among the ones protesting against the attitude
of "looking down upon readers and treat them as simple-minded" and I think
I sometimes have been against him in specific discussions (thea one about
"the workers' paradise" for instance), but not this time, regarding the
translation of "Treasury of Croesus". I see his poin and I think he's
right.
In the Italian translation "Lydia the tattooed lady" was replaced with
"Balla, Lidia, balla come sai", a reference to a VERY popular song by Lucio
Battisti, "Balla LINDA" (which dates back to the sixties).
I think it also added a gag to the gag, because it looked like Donald did
confuse betwen the names "Lidia" and "Linda" and quoted the song wrong.
ETA BETA wrote:
>Totally disagree, sorry. What's the difference between "Lydia the
>tattooed lady" and "dance, Lydia dance" (an old, silly Italian song,
>where the original actually said "dance, LINDA, dance") to the reader
>UNAWARE of EITHER songs, which is very likely, *especially* the
>younger readers ?
I don't agree. Even younger readers are not so likely to be unaware of
Lucio Battisti and his songs; although he was very popular in the sixties,
he still is very famous and so are his songs. For instance, I was not born
when Battisti wrote "balla Linda" but in spite of this I perfectly know
this song and others by Battisti, and I could easily see the reference in
the story. On the other way, this is the first time I have heard about
"Lydia the tattooed lady". Had the translator kept it, I would not have got
the gag.
So the translator replaced a song that was probably unknown to the vast
majority of readers with one that was probably known by the vast majority
of them. I think he did the right thing.
AND I am against footnotes in comics, whenever it is possible to avoid
them. In the particular case of "Zio Paperone", which does not contain only
comics but also articles and presentations for the stories, footnotes could
be replaced by notes in the presentation (or in a post-presentation when
there could be a spoiler), but maybe then somebody could miss them because
I don't think that all the readers read articles and presentations, some
probably just read the comics and skip everything else. But then it would
be their fault...
What I would like most would be: a translation not "looking down upon
readers and treat them as simple-minded" but not cryptic as well, PLUS a
post presentation with notes on the original version (notes like ""Balla
Linda" was used to replace "Lydia the tattooed lady" for this reason.." ).
In this way I could enjoy the story in both versions ;)
BTW (this is a bit off-topic, sorry) Lucio Battisti died the day before
yesterday. As a consequence, many of his songs have been being played on
radios and on TV for three days now. I think "Balla Linda" is now a song
known to EVERYBODY in Italy. ;)
Bye,
Claudia
(((( --------------------------------------------------
jgs { '> Few women admit their age. Few men act theirs.
/ ,\ --------------------------------------------------
/_/ / Claudia Rege Cambrin ((Email removed))
===//="==== Corso Nazionale 161, 19125 La Spezia (SP) - ITALY
/ --------------------------------------------------
wrote in Digest #223. I was among the ones protesting against the attitude
of "looking down upon readers and treat them as simple-minded" and I think
I sometimes have been against him in specific discussions (thea one about
"the workers' paradise" for instance), but not this time, regarding the
translation of "Treasury of Croesus". I see his poin and I think he's
right.
In the Italian translation "Lydia the tattooed lady" was replaced with
"Balla, Lidia, balla come sai", a reference to a VERY popular song by Lucio
Battisti, "Balla LINDA" (which dates back to the sixties).
I think it also added a gag to the gag, because it looked like Donald did
confuse betwen the names "Lidia" and "Linda" and quoted the song wrong.
ETA BETA wrote:
>Totally disagree, sorry. What's the difference between "Lydia the
>tattooed lady" and "dance, Lydia dance" (an old, silly Italian song,
>where the original actually said "dance, LINDA, dance") to the reader
>UNAWARE of EITHER songs, which is very likely, *especially* the
>younger readers ?
I don't agree. Even younger readers are not so likely to be unaware of
Lucio Battisti and his songs; although he was very popular in the sixties,
he still is very famous and so are his songs. For instance, I was not born
when Battisti wrote "balla Linda" but in spite of this I perfectly know
this song and others by Battisti, and I could easily see the reference in
the story. On the other way, this is the first time I have heard about
"Lydia the tattooed lady". Had the translator kept it, I would not have got
the gag.
So the translator replaced a song that was probably unknown to the vast
majority of readers with one that was probably known by the vast majority
of them. I think he did the right thing.
AND I am against footnotes in comics, whenever it is possible to avoid
them. In the particular case of "Zio Paperone", which does not contain only
comics but also articles and presentations for the stories, footnotes could
be replaced by notes in the presentation (or in a post-presentation when
there could be a spoiler), but maybe then somebody could miss them because
I don't think that all the readers read articles and presentations, some
probably just read the comics and skip everything else. But then it would
be their fault...
What I would like most would be: a translation not "looking down upon
readers and treat them as simple-minded" but not cryptic as well, PLUS a
post presentation with notes on the original version (notes like ""Balla
Linda" was used to replace "Lydia the tattooed lady" for this reason.." ).
In this way I could enjoy the story in both versions ;)
BTW (this is a bit off-topic, sorry) Lucio Battisti died the day before
yesterday. As a consequence, many of his songs have been being played on
radios and on TV for three days now. I think "Balla Linda" is now a song
known to EVERYBODY in Italy. ;)
Bye,
Claudia
(((( --------------------------------------------------
jgs { '> Few women admit their age. Few men act theirs.
/ ,\ --------------------------------------------------
/_/ / Claudia Rege Cambrin ((Email removed))
===//="==== Corso Nazionale 161, 19125 La Spezia (SP) - ITALY
/ --------------------------------------------------
Don Rosa
Digest #223
Message 117 -
1998-09-11 at 15:05:43
Well, I agreed 100% with "Eta Beta"... and now I agree 100% with Stefan
Dios. Can I agree with both and not be wishy-washy? Of course, the
Lydia/Lidia bit is somewhat different from the sort of situation that I
referred to... when the joke depends on a pun, I don't expect the translator
to retain the English text with explanation-captions.
But here's a situation that I had to decide on my own solution for... and
let's see what Stefan thinks of it. In this "Lost Dutchman" story that I
just finished, at one important point the Ducks discover a slab of rock with
a few chiseled words in it which are vital to the story. Normally, I must
leave this blank. But if I do that, I know that all the Egmont branches,
with their very-limited abilities to do anything but thin black
computer-lettering, will either show the rock as having writing on it that
looks like it was done by a kid with a magic-marker, or they might actually
put *type-set* "ancient carving" on the rock. I can't let that happen, but
how can I prevent it? Well, my only solution was to put the carving on the
rock myself, make it look like it should as ancient, crooked chisel-marks,
but do it in English... and leave a space for a caption-box for a
translation. This story is clearly set in Arizona, so even a stupid child
would know that an American cowboy in Arizona is not going to chisel in
Swedish (or whatever). But... when Egmont gets the art, they very probably
will white-out my chiseling and you'll see the ancient chisel-letters as
magic-marker in all but the Gladstone edition (if any). So, Stefan, what
would you have suggested to me in that case? Did I try to do the best thing,
even if it gets changed by the main office before it reaches you?
And you also wrote:
>>>>(By the way, if I wanted to, I could point out that Service's poem
mentioned
above wasn't published when Scrooge was in Yukon. But Don could easily argue
that Service might have written it many years before, and maybe shown it to
Scrooge when they made friends somewhere.
Yes, I knew that -- that's why I was careful to have $crooge say (in my
original script) *not* that he had read the poem somewhere, but that he
heard a poet (Service) recite it in Skagway! And I simply omitted the
mention that Service was in Skagway having escaped from a reservation in
Florida. No... wait.... maybe I'm getting confused.......
As to Duck teeth: yes, the Trivial Pursuit people probably contacted Disney
directly to verify the answer to that matter, that's why they got it wrong.
It's the comic companies that are the true custodians of the Ducks. Let
Disney wax eloquent on whether the Little Mermaid or that flatulent warthog
have teeth.
My theory: when a Duck opens his mouth from front to back, there are NO
teeth. When a Duck opens his mouth from back to front, he *has* teeth. Very
simple rule. (Don't bring up that picture of Flintheart at the end of my
"Eldorado" story... I won't pay any attention! I simply violated my simple
rule. Simple?)
Dios. Can I agree with both and not be wishy-washy? Of course, the
Lydia/Lidia bit is somewhat different from the sort of situation that I
referred to... when the joke depends on a pun, I don't expect the translator
to retain the English text with explanation-captions.
But here's a situation that I had to decide on my own solution for... and
let's see what Stefan thinks of it. In this "Lost Dutchman" story that I
just finished, at one important point the Ducks discover a slab of rock with
a few chiseled words in it which are vital to the story. Normally, I must
leave this blank. But if I do that, I know that all the Egmont branches,
with their very-limited abilities to do anything but thin black
computer-lettering, will either show the rock as having writing on it that
looks like it was done by a kid with a magic-marker, or they might actually
put *type-set* "ancient carving" on the rock. I can't let that happen, but
how can I prevent it? Well, my only solution was to put the carving on the
rock myself, make it look like it should as ancient, crooked chisel-marks,
but do it in English... and leave a space for a caption-box for a
translation. This story is clearly set in Arizona, so even a stupid child
would know that an American cowboy in Arizona is not going to chisel in
Swedish (or whatever). But... when Egmont gets the art, they very probably
will white-out my chiseling and you'll see the ancient chisel-letters as
magic-marker in all but the Gladstone edition (if any). So, Stefan, what
would you have suggested to me in that case? Did I try to do the best thing,
even if it gets changed by the main office before it reaches you?
And you also wrote:
>>>>(By the way, if I wanted to, I could point out that Service's poem
mentioned
above wasn't published when Scrooge was in Yukon. But Don could easily argue
that Service might have written it many years before, and maybe shown it to
Scrooge when they made friends somewhere.
Yes, I knew that -- that's why I was careful to have $crooge say (in my
original script) *not* that he had read the poem somewhere, but that he
heard a poet (Service) recite it in Skagway! And I simply omitted the
mention that Service was in Skagway having escaped from a reservation in
Florida. No... wait.... maybe I'm getting confused.......
As to Duck teeth: yes, the Trivial Pursuit people probably contacted Disney
directly to verify the answer to that matter, that's why they got it wrong.
It's the comic companies that are the true custodians of the Ducks. Let
Disney wax eloquent on whether the Little Mermaid or that flatulent warthog
have teeth.
My theory: when a Duck opens his mouth from front to back, there are NO
teeth. When a Duck opens his mouth from back to front, he *has* teeth. Very
simple rule. (Don't bring up that picture of Flintheart at the end of my
"Eldorado" story... I won't pay any attention! I simply violated my simple
rule. Simple?)
Jeff Conner
Mickey Strip Sighting
Message 118 -
1998-09-11 at 18:54:54
hiya,
I recently spotted the Mickey Mouse strip on the Comics Cornucopia site.
http://www.sdsc.edu/~jeff/comics
This site also accesses 300 other strips that are online. Unlike the
Mercurycenter comics page, this one does not require registration, or a
password. And it doesn't toss cookies on your computer.
Enjoy!
Ciao yall,
Jeff C
---------------------------------
Make Your Own Comics Page--NEAT!!
Comics Cornucopia http://www.sdsc.edu/~jeff/comics
SJ Mercury Comics http://comics.mercurycenter.com
Phillynews Comics http://interactive.phillynews.com/comics
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
I recently spotted the Mickey Mouse strip on the Comics Cornucopia site.
http://www.sdsc.edu/~jeff/comics
This site also accesses 300 other strips that are online. Unlike the
Mercurycenter comics page, this one does not require registration, or a
password. And it doesn't toss cookies on your computer.
Enjoy!
Ciao yall,
Jeff C
---------------------------------
Make Your Own Comics Page--NEAT!!
Comics Cornucopia http://www.sdsc.edu/~jeff/comics
SJ Mercury Comics http://comics.mercurycenter.com
Phillynews Comics http://interactive.phillynews.com/comics
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Michael Naiman
Barks Collector
Message 119 -
1998-09-11 at 23:56:43
To all of our Swedish participants, I have some extra copies of the
BARKS COLLECTOR fanzine that I'd be willing to trade for a copy of the
KALLE ANKE 50th Anniversary comicbook featuring the "Guardians" story.
BARKS COLLECTOR fanzine that I'd be willing to trade for a copy of the
KALLE ANKE 50th Anniversary comicbook featuring the "Guardians" story.
Eta Beta
Lydia, oh Lydia
Message 120 -
1998-09-12 at 00:30:41
Ahhh... I'm so glad some benign Norse God took the time to enlighten us
poor
fellows on the sacred matter of translations, and how they MUST be done...
From His fortress up there in the clouds HE poured the honey of his
omniscience
over us, who now cower trembling, dazzled and confused by the
revelations...
We are unholy foreigners, and our heathen languages won't EVER enter the
realm
of the God. HE will see to it that his subjects would never be touched by
such impurities, lest they learn the terrible truth... Ducks are really...
(shudder) foreigners, too... no! They will keep reading their stories,
unaware
of silly details that an assuming foreign author might have put in them,
because
they're tailored to their special needs, which are much different than
those of
the heathens, but how would they know? And chant along an Abba song...
HE's the maintainer of tradition, and little HE cares for the much older
traditions that generated from foreign countries... what would Americans
know of Disney comics? Or Italians, just picture that! HE knows what's
best,
and we shouldn't dare arguing, even if we talk about translations in a
language
and country even the God admits HE doesn't know Jack about... "hic sunt
leones".
They say they even put...brrrr... *footnotes* in comics, down there, just
imagine that... lazy sods, the lot of 'em, but whaddayaknow... foreigners
will be foreigners...
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in
your philosophy.
Cheers
Eta Beta
poor
fellows on the sacred matter of translations, and how they MUST be done...
From His fortress up there in the clouds HE poured the honey of his
omniscience
over us, who now cower trembling, dazzled and confused by the
revelations...
We are unholy foreigners, and our heathen languages won't EVER enter the
realm
of the God. HE will see to it that his subjects would never be touched by
such impurities, lest they learn the terrible truth... Ducks are really...
(shudder) foreigners, too... no! They will keep reading their stories,
unaware
of silly details that an assuming foreign author might have put in them,
because
they're tailored to their special needs, which are much different than
those of
the heathens, but how would they know? And chant along an Abba song...
HE's the maintainer of tradition, and little HE cares for the much older
traditions that generated from foreign countries... what would Americans
know of Disney comics? Or Italians, just picture that! HE knows what's
best,
and we shouldn't dare arguing, even if we talk about translations in a
language
and country even the God admits HE doesn't know Jack about... "hic sunt
leones".
They say they even put...brrrr... *footnotes* in comics, down there, just
imagine that... lazy sods, the lot of 'em, but whaddayaknow... foreigners
will be foreigners...
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in
your philosophy.
Cheers
Eta Beta